No, if you take a moment to look at the details of what happened in Ireland instead of spouting knee-jerk nonsense then you would know that the citizen assembly in Ireland considered all the different "flavours" of allowing abortion (if at all) - what would be the time limit? Would it be on demand, or would it need two doctors to certify a medical imperative as in Britain and so on.
The proposal that they brought forward was said to have surprised people and it was their compromise that won support in the subsequent referendum.
OK, fancy a wager?
If we get a citizens assembly to ponder Brexit, and they come up with a "solution", I say it doesn't get implemented.
Theresa was willing to let Brexiteer after Brexiteer walk from her government. If Remainers are flouncing out she can always fill those jobs with Brexiteers...
Maybe we'll finally get the government we should have had all the way along?
The Bercow story is a bit of a non story I'd have thought. Traditionally Speakers are given peerages and sit as Crossbenchers, but is there any reason to believe Bercow would want to sit as a Crossbencher? He's no fan of slavishly following precedent after all.
But it's no point indulging revenge upon him. It looks ill even if justified, and sooner or later the other lot will get in and presumably give him a peerage anyway.
I thought at one point we'd definitely need at least one of a party VONC in May, a Government VONC, a May resignation, a General Election, a Government of National Unity, or a second referendum to finally resolve Brexit.
I'm starting to think we might ultimately need ALL of them.
No, if you take a moment to look at the details of what happened in Ireland instead of spouting knee-jerk nonsense then you would know that the citizen assembly in Ireland considered all the different "flavours" of allowing abortion (if at all) - what would be the time limit? Would it be on demand, or would it need two doctors to certify a medical imperative as in Britain and so on.
The proposal that they brought forward was said to have surprised people and it was their compromise that won support in the subsequent referendum.
OK, fancy a wager?
If we get a citizens assembly to ponder Brexit, and they come up with a "solution", I say it doesn't get implemented.
If it were tasked with coming up with two alternatives, they're quite likely to be either fully in or fully out.
No, if you take a moment to look at the details of what happened in Ireland instead of spouting knee-jerk nonsense then you would know that the citizen assembly in Ireland considered all the different "flavours" of allowing abortion (if at all) - what would be the time limit? Would it be on demand, or would it need two doctors to certify a medical imperative as in Britain and so on.
The proposal that they brought forward was said to have surprised people and it was their compromise that won support in the subsequent referendum.
OK, fancy a wager?
If we get a citizens assembly to ponder Brexit, and they come up with a "solution", I say it doesn't get implemented.
That is an entirely separate question.
Will you admit that your knee-jerk objection was wrongheaded?
They assume they can wind down the clock. It's not impossible, but yes they have overestimated it. They wanted proper Brexit or no Brexit, well they've succeeded at narrowing it down to those choices at least.
In an anecdote alert I did encounter, to my knowledge, the first person I know who voted remain but is so sick of it all they say they'd prefer no deal to remain. Outnumbered by others who voted leave and would rather remain than no deal, but hey ho.
No, if you take a moment to look at the details of what happened in Ireland instead of spouting knee-jerk nonsense then you would know that the citizen assembly in Ireland considered all the different "flavours" of allowing abortion (if at all) - what would be the time limit? Would it be on demand, or would it need two doctors to certify a medical imperative as in Britain and so on.
The proposal that they brought forward was said to have surprised people and it was their compromise that won support in the subsequent referendum.
OK, fancy a wager?
If we get a citizens assembly to ponder Brexit, and they come up with a "solution", I say it doesn't get implemented.
If it were tasked with coming up with two alternatives, they're quite likely to be either fully in or fully out.
That's certainly a plausible outcome, but is rather predicated on asking them to come up with two options in the first place. And in any case the Irish experience was that the answer they came up with was surprising.
We now have the spectacle of both front benches clearly opposing a second referendum, which is apparently desired by a significant majority of the electorate - an overwhelming majority in the case of Labour voters...
Exactly the same proportion of voters said they wanted a second EU referendum – three points higher than recorded in a similar poll before Christmas. Backing for a so-called people’s vote among Labour supporters stood at 78%.
The remain lead was extended further when respondents were asked to compare it to May’s withdrawal agreement or the option of leaving the EU without a deal.
Against the prime minister’s deal, remain led by 65% to 35%, while against no-deal was 59% to 41% in favour of staying in the EU....
Chances of a GE before 29th March: 0%. Chances of another referendum before 29th March: 0%.
So it's either extend the negotiation period, revoke A50, or No Deal.
Or Deal.
What deal can she conceivably get done by 29 March that will satisfy the house?
Let’s say for the sake of argument that she goes to Brussels, Brussels blinks and the backstop is removed or made terminable unilaterally. That might ... might... just get the DUP on board with a bit of cadjoling, but will that satisfy the ERG? Concerns about the deal extend beyond the backstop. Meanwhile Soubry and Co will probably still be opposed and so too will the “this deal makes us worse off” crowd on the Tory and labour benches. Forget getting the other opposition parties on board.
The only deal that can pass the House is an official government policy, endorsed by Labour. It's as simple as that.
Getting a nod and a wink, a "we don't mind if some of our MPs vote the other way" isn't enough, given the scale of the defeat.
Thus if both May and Corbyn continue to dig their heels in, then we need to know if procedural avenues will be opened that allow backbenchers to timetable legislation without Government support. If so, then the Remain/Soft Brexit majority might possibly be able thrash out a settlement between them.
Failing that, I can only see three ways left to avoid No Deal
(1) Opposition MPs cave en masse and back the Deal, for want of any alternative (2) Tory Hard Remainers cross the floor and put a Labour PM (almost certainly Corbyn) into bat, who could then plausibly ask for an extension to negotiate Andrex Soft Brexit and/or hold a second referendum (3) Broad political realignment: centre-left and centre-right breakaway parties form GNU then request extension as per option 2, or possibly revoke
Theresa May offers a referendum on her Deal versus Remain. Even Jeremy Corbyn can't turn that down. Theresa May has to not care whether it's Deal or Remain but she might win it. Despite voting Remain, I'm not massively keen on a second referendum, but that's the only way I can see our of the mess, barring finding some route to limbo and the never-never. I can't stress enough: No Deal will be bad for everyone, especially the Conservative party, if Mrs May ever lets that happen.
Theresa was willing to let Brexiteer after Brexiteer walk from her government. If Remainers are flouncing out she can always fill those jobs with Brexiteers...
Maybe we'll finally get the government we should have had all the way along?
Comments
2 this looks like a bone thrown for the headbangers to run after.
If we get a citizens assembly to ponder Brexit, and they come up with a "solution", I say it doesn't get implemented.
But it's no point indulging revenge upon him. It looks ill even if justified, and sooner or later the other lot will get in and presumably give him a peerage anyway.
I'm starting to think we might ultimately need ALL of them.
Will you admit that your knee-jerk objection was wrongheaded?
In an anecdote alert I did encounter, to my knowledge, the first person I know who voted remain but is so sick of it all they say they'd prefer no deal to remain. Outnumbered by others who voted leave and would rather remain than no deal, but hey ho.
She's a bit like Gloria Gaynor.
Is that right?
And other questions in that poll indicate a majority in favour of remain, and believing the referendum a mistake...
NEW THREAD
Germany’s love letter to Britain up top is hackneyed but sweet. Of course, the raging europhobes on here will mock it, as they turn their backs.