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Bravo.Freggles said:
M&S confirms no Deal.AlastairMeeks said:Meanwhile, it's worth noting that for Marks & Spencer, Leave means leave:
https://twitter.com/johannketel/status/10851762070528901130 -
My house doesn't actually have a number, checked the deeds.RoyalBlue said:
Too right!TOPPING said:
Not a political activist, I see!williamglenn said:
What is the rationale for banning low-level letterboxes? Has Graham Brady's postman been given a bad back?Richard_Nabavi said:
Quite right too. It would be a democratic outrage if due consideration of the proposal to ban low-level letterboxes was jeopardised.eek said:Change of timing for tomorrow
https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258
You have to love Parliament...
The next thing we can ban is describing houses exclusively with names rather than numbers.0 -
Let's say May says time is up and her final act of PM is revoking her Article 50. Parliament authorises it. Would that be valid?Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are possessed with this. I respect Ken Clarke but did not hear his comments
The simple fact is A50 can only be revoked through the UK consitutional process
It cannot be used as a ruse and to re-invoke has to be in a manner that would pass an ECJ ruling
Then let's say we have a leadership election. The winner wins on a platform of fulfilling Brexit with a more specific agenda than Brexit means Brexit. Parliament authorises invoking Article 50 again. Would that be valid?0 -
Plus making it compulsory to have the "tradesmen" buzzer work always to gain entry to blocks of flats.RoyalBlue said:
Too right!TOPPING said:
Not a political activist, I see!williamglenn said:
What is the rationale for banning low-level letterboxes? Has Graham Brady's postman been given a bad back?Richard_Nabavi said:
Quite right too. It would be a democratic outrage if due consideration of the proposal to ban low-level letterboxes was jeopardised.eek said:Change of timing for tomorrow
https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258
You have to love Parliament...
The next thing we can ban is describing houses exclusively with names rather than numbers.0 -
While we're at it, can we ban letterboxes at any level with a vicious fucking spring mechanism? Invariably, they are made of razor-sharp brass....DavidL said:
Very true and for similar reasons. They are indeed an evil menace which have been left unregulated for far too long.Foxy said:
Anyone who has ever done party leafletting would sign up for that in a flash!DavidL said:
I used to hate low level letterboxes when delivering newspapers. They were never big enough, chewed up the paper and all too often had a really annoying yappy dog on the other side of it trying to get your fingers. Sign me up for that one.eek said:Change of timing for tomorrow
https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258
You have to love Parliament...0 -
And if Powell is against then Stephen Kinnock likely will be too.Pulpstar said:
That'll probably be Lucy Powell against the deal too then from the Labour side.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
UKIP making the jump to full fascist:
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There are no numbers anywhere in my village.RoyalBlue said:
Too right!TOPPING said:
Not a political activist, I see!williamglenn said:
What is the rationale for banning low-level letterboxes? Has Graham Brady's postman been given a bad back?Richard_Nabavi said:
Quite right too. It would be a democratic outrage if due consideration of the proposal to ban low-level letterboxes was jeopardised.eek said:Change of timing for tomorrow
https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258
You have to love Parliament...
The next thing we can ban is describing houses exclusively with names rather than numbers.0 -
Yawn....not everything is Brexit.AlastairMeeks said:Meanwhile, it's worth noting that for Marks & Spencer, Leave means leave:
twitter.com/johannketel/status/10851762070528901130 -
Hopkins is a homeopathist, a mate of Corbyn’s, a Leave Means Leaver, and an (alleged) sex pest.MarqueeMark said:I'm told Kelvin Hopkins will likely vote against the deal, holding the party line for the party he's currently suspended from...... After all, he is bessy mates with Corbyn and was one of his nominators.
The South Midlands really do have the worst MPs.0 -
I find it hard to understand why someone who is neither an ERG type, nor a hardcore Remainer, would want to vote against.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
If you consider that Sky are forecasting a defeat of around 225 then anything below 150 will very much enable May to continue talks with the EU and return again with an updated deal.Beverley_C said:I like the way people are talking like an 80 vote defeat is a victory. What comes next? Redefining black as white? Wet as dry?
A defeat of 80 is still a defeat. And a big one.0 -
I have to say that I increasingly believe that leafletting is a displacement activity to convince enthusiasts that they are actually taking part. I really can't believe it changes any votes at all unless there is a very, very specific local issue that people feel strongly about.viewcode said:
Yes. But what about the letterboxes?DavidL said:
Very true and for similar reasons. They are indeed an evil menace which have been left unregulated for far too long.Foxy said:
Anyone who has ever done party leafletting would sign up for that in a flash!DavidL said:
I used to hate low level letterboxes when delivering newspapers. They were never big enough, chewed up the paper and all too often had a really annoying yappy dog on the other side of it trying to get your fingers. Sign me up for that one.eek said:Change of timing for tomorrow
https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258
You have to love Parliament...
I'll get my coat0 -
Then we must send a man from Whitehall to number them.AlastairMeeks said:
There are no numbers anywhere in my village.RoyalBlue said:
Too right!TOPPING said:
Not a political activist, I see!williamglenn said:
What is the rationale for banning low-level letterboxes? Has Graham Brady's postman been given a bad back?Richard_Nabavi said:
Quite right too. It would be a democratic outrage if due consideration of the proposal to ban low-level letterboxes was jeopardised.eek said:Change of timing for tomorrow
https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258
You have to love Parliament...
The next thing we can ban is describing houses exclusively with names rather than numbers.0 -
Thanks, that's very helpful.MarqueeMark said:I'm told Kelvin Hopkins will likely vote against the deal, holding the party line for the party he's currently suspended from...... After all, he is bessy mates with Corbyn and was one of his nominators.
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AlastairMeeks said:
He was in my "expected" category to vote for the deal. I haven't yet seen what Kelvin Hopkins is planning.AmpfieldAndy said:Frank Field says he will support the deal. Surprised at that.
John Woodcock is against, which surprised me a bit.
Woodcock is anti Corbyn but also anti Brexit*. He will vote against Corbyn and Brexit, the tricky bit might be if those things crossover.
IMO and based on probability, nothing certain of course.
Edit: *Not sure to what extent
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My pet hate is security panels on closes with letter boxes for the flats on the inside. Bah!RoyalBlue said:
Too right!TOPPING said:
Not a political activist, I see!williamglenn said:
What is the rationale for banning low-level letterboxes? Has Graham Brady's postman been given a bad back?Richard_Nabavi said:
Quite right too. It would be a democratic outrage if due consideration of the proposal to ban low-level letterboxes was jeopardised.eek said:Change of timing for tomorrow
https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258
You have to love Parliament...
The next thing we can ban is describing houses exclusively with names rather than numbers.0 -
Take the pathway past the steaming bog, left at the abandoned primary school that exudes an air of menace, keep going past the bare-chested old ladies smearing themselves in dung, and then right at Sainsbury's. You can't miss it.AlastairMeeks said:
There are no numbers anywhere in my village.
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FPT
Tom Gordon @HTScotPol
Former SNP MP Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh found guilty of professional misconduct https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17359087.former-snp-mp-tasmina-ahmed-sheikh-found-guilty-of-professional-misconduct/?ref=twtrec …
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Usual misreading of the actual result by the almost bankrupt unionist mouthpiece , The floundering Herald
Both cleared of any impropriety or dishonesty.
Reality
National columnist Ahmed-Sheikh was due to attend a four or five-day hearing of the Scottish Solicitors Discipline Tribunal in Perth yesterday after the Law Society of Scotland took out what is technically called a prosecution against her and former business partner Niall Mickel over events prior to her resignation.
The Law Society alleged professional misconduct on the part of both Mickel and Ahmed-Sheikh, mainly on grounds of failing to follow proper accounting procedures in the administration of a Mickel family trust.
The first day of the hearing saw a dramatic turn of events, however, when it was revealed at the outset that the Law Society and legal representatives of the two solicitors had agreed a joint minute clearing both lawyers of any dishonesty or impropriety.
They have accepted that they did not treat the trust as a client which would have involved different accounting procedures, but both solicitors believed they did not have to do so.
Newspaper reports in the run up to her unsuccessful election campaign in Ochil and South Perthshire in the 2017 general election suggested that Ahmed-Sheikh was being investigated for financial impropriety, but the tribunal heard yesterday that there had been none.
Nor was there any dishonesty on the part of Ahmed-Sheikh and Mickel, and nor did either of them gain anything, while the trust fund itself suffered no loss and indeed made money when interest was paid into it.
Furthermore the Law Society’s lawyer at the hearing, Grant Knight, stated that their belief that the trust fund was not a client of the firm was “erroneous but genuinely held.”
Knight told the hearing that significant sums had been loaned by the trust to Hamilton Burns which was struggling to cope in the period under review.
Mickel had set up the trust for his sister Jill in 2012 and part of the problem was that the trust remained known on the firm’s ledger as the Jill Mickel Trust when it should have been named the Alan Niall Macpherson Mickel Trust.
Knight said there was no evidence that the trust had been set up to lend money and that Mickel accepted that he should have taken steps to ensure proper accounting procedures.
Lawyer William Macreath for Mickel argued that the genuine belief that the trust was not a client did not meet the threshold for a finding of professional misconduct. He also said that his client and his family had suffered from the effects of the publicity surrounding the case.
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Oh, if only.....Nigelb said:
Is that referring to private members bills and the Speaker ?MarqueeMark said:
Use a wooden spoon to poke them through. Bit of luck, you'll choke the litte yappy sod too.....Foxy said:
Anyone who has ever done party leafletting would sign up for that in a flash!DavidL said:
I used to hate low level letterboxes when delivering newspapers. They were never big enough, chewed up the paper and all too often had a really annoying yappy dog on the other side of it trying to get your fingers. Sign me up for that one.eek said:Change of timing for tomorrow
https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258
You have to love Parliament...0 -
That's what I expect, and I've known him a long time. He is from the "polite but firm left" school of thought as Corbyn. The suspension is a non-political issue and won't have changed that.MarqueeMark said:I'm told Kelvin Hopkins will likely vote against the deal, holding the party line for the party he's currently suspended from...... After all, he is bessy mates with Corbyn and was one of his nominators.
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Labour has been fined £12,500 for failing to properly report the donations given to it, the Electoral Commission today said. The watchdog said the fine is the highest penalty ever slapped on a political party for such an offence.
Tories and Lib Dem's fined £200.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6594805/Labour-fined-12-500-failing-properly-report-donations.html
Not exactly much of a punishment.0 -
Harlow voted Leave by 2:1. That, coupled with the views of his constituency party, no doubt would weigh on his mind.Sean_F said:
I find it hard to understand why someone who is neither an ERG type, nor a hardcore Remainer, would want to vote against.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
He's also THE authority on the wines of Burgundy in the House.Gardenwalker said:
Hopkins is a homeopathist, a mate of Corbyn’s, a Leave Means Leaver, and an (alleged) sex pest.MarqueeMark said:I'm told Kelvin Hopkins will likely vote against the deal, holding the party line for the party he's currently suspended from...... After all, he is bessy mates with Corbyn and was one of his nominators.
The South Midlands really do have the worst MPs.
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If you want a picture of the future, imagine Theresa May trying to implement Btrexit - for ever.viewcode said:
1984? An analogy too close to the truth...Chris said:
That bit about "If there is any hope, it lies with the Labour party" sounds strangely familiar...williamglenn said:Corbyn's dilemma:
https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1085212765671833601
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I am professionally involved with one specific area that has been the subject of almost hysterical predictions of doom from remainers.TOPPING said:
It's not a non-story. It's one of several (we will not run out of medicines, there will be enough food after March 29th) the need for which, if only to dismiss the premise, is mind-boggling.
Everybody I spoke to within the industry was relaxed right from the off about the consequences of Brexit and there was a widespread confidence there would be minimal, if any, actual disruption.
I don't know about other industries but if remainers are as accurate with their predictions elsewhere as with my industry then their claims are little more than project fear.
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Will everyone with a low letter box need to get a new door?RobD said:
I move a motion "... That this House has no confidence in low letter boxes".Pulpstar said:
Fun and amendments..eek said:Change of timing for tomorrow
https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258
You have to love Parliament...
I propose that this house bans low level letter boxes and revokes Article 500 -
I can see that, but then he voted in favour of Remain. But, then, maybe that enraged his party so much they insisted he voted against this time round.AlastairMeeks said:
Harlow voted Leave by 2:1. That, coupled with the views of his constituency party, no doubt would weigh on his mind.Sean_F said:
I find it hard to understand why someone who is neither an ERG type, nor a hardcore Remainer, would want to vote against.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
I'd have thought a ban on the sale of doors with low level boxes and a low level box standard for new builds would be a sensible compromise here ?AnneJGP said:
Will everyone with a low letter box need to get a new door?RobD said:
I move a motion "... That this House has no confidence in low letter boxes".Pulpstar said:
Fun and amendments..eek said:Change of timing for tomorrow
https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258
You have to love Parliament...
I propose that this house bans low level letter boxes and revokes Article 500 -
Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????williamglenn said:0 -
O'Brien. "...it is all nonsense. The Labour Party will never revolt, not in a thousand years or a million. They cannot. I do not have to tell you the reason: you know it already. If you have ever cherished any dreams of violent insurrection, you must abandon them. There is no way in which the Brexit can be overthrown. The rule of the Brexit is for ever...."Chris said:
That bit about "If there is any hope, it lies with the Labour party" sounds strangely familiar...williamglenn said:Corbyn's dilemma:
https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1085212765671833601
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The People's Vote crowd have an impressive turnout in Parliament Square. I wonder how this influences proceedings in the House?
https://twitter.com/WinstonsBack/status/10852270836667801670 -
Anyone who has leafleted in Torbay would know that you would make it compulsory to have a post box by the front gate - and not up 60, 70, 80, 100 steps to the front door...... I once calulated that in one session I had walked the equivalent of one and a half Empire State Buildings.....TOPPING said:
Plus making it compulsory to have the "tradesmen" buzzer work always to gain entry to blocks of flats.RoyalBlue said:
Too right!TOPPING said:
Not a political activist, I see!williamglenn said:
What is the rationale for banning low-level letterboxes? Has Graham Brady's postman been given a bad back?Richard_Nabavi said:
Quite right too. It would be a democratic outrage if due consideration of the proposal to ban low-level letterboxes was jeopardised.eek said:Change of timing for tomorrow
https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258
You have to love Parliament...
The next thing we can ban is describing houses exclusively with names rather than numbers.0 -
"But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Boris."viewcode said:
O'Brien. "...it is all nonsense. The Labour Party will never revolt, not in a thousand years or a million. They cannot. I do not have to tell you the reason: you know it already. If you have ever cherished any dreams of violent insurrection, you must abandon them. There is no way in which the Brexit can be overthrown. The rule of the Brexit is for ever...."Chris said:
That bit about "If there is any hope, it lies with the Labour party" sounds strangely familiar...williamglenn said:Corbyn's dilemma:
https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/10852127656718336010 -
If this doesn’t end withMay going then I can’t see why the leavers have a problem. I think the EU is leaking and hinting at a better deal and as such is undermining May. She could carry on regardless as is her style but a deal which limits the backstop would go a long way to getting everyone on board. Once we have left then it is unlikely that we will go back in, the deal would be worse, the EU is now likely to unhindered move closer. Could she get a time limited nature for backstop, provide compensation for NI for change in status for limited time? Provide further reassurance on rights for labour leavers?DavidL said:I wonder if the Mays have packed.
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Did he say that on his radio show?viewcode said:
O'Brien. "...it is all nonsense. The Labour Party will never revolt, not in a thousand years or a million. They cannot. I do not have to tell you the reason: you know it already. If you have ever cherished any dreams of violent insurrection, you must abandon them. There is no way in which the Brexit can be overthrown. The rule of the Brexit is for ever...."Chris said:
That bit about "If there is any hope, it lies with the Labour party" sounds strangely familiar...williamglenn said:Corbyn's dilemma:
https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/10852127656718336010 -
That Davis interview is positively Trumpian in its general incoherence. Can only presume he was blind drunk.Chris said:
Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????williamglenn said:0 -
I think for the locals it helps.DavidL said:
I have to say that I increasingly believe that leafletting is a displacement activity to convince enthusiasts that they are actually taking part. I really can't believe it changes any votes at all unless there is a very, very specific local issue that people feel strongly about.viewcode said:
Yes. But what about the letterboxes?DavidL said:
Very true and for similar reasons. They are indeed an evil menace which have been left unregulated for far too long.Foxy said:
Anyone who has ever done party leafletting would sign up for that in a flash!DavidL said:
I used to hate low level letterboxes when delivering newspapers. They were never big enough, chewed up the paper and all too often had a really annoying yappy dog on the other side of it trying to get your fingers. Sign me up for that one.eek said:Change of timing for tomorrow
https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258
You have to love Parliament...
I'll get my coat
I just love delivering bar chart infested Focus team leaflets in my sandals, with socks obviously!0 -
What a long trip they've made all the way from Muesli Hill !Recidivist said:The People's Vote crowd have an impressive turnout in Parliament Square. I wonder how this influences proceedings in the House?
https://twitter.com/WinstonsBack/status/10852270836667801670 -
That falls down as a unit of measurement given that most people have never walked up the side of a skyscraper.MarqueeMark said:
Anyone who has leafleted in Torbay would know that you would make it compulsory to have a post box by the front gate - and not up 60, 70, 80, 100 steps to the front door...... I once calulated that in one session I had walked the equivalent of one and a half Empire State Buildings.....TOPPING said:
Plus making it compulsory to have the "tradesmen" buzzer work always to gain entry to blocks of flats.RoyalBlue said:
Too right!TOPPING said:
Not a political activist, I see!williamglenn said:
What is the rationale for banning low-level letterboxes? Has Graham Brady's postman been given a bad back?Richard_Nabavi said:
Quite right too. It would be a democratic outrage if due consideration of the proposal to ban low-level letterboxes was jeopardised.eek said:Change of timing for tomorrow
https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258
You have to love Parliament...
The next thing we can ban is describing houses exclusively with names rather than numbers.0 -
Waitrose, surely?grabcocque said:
Take the pathway past the steaming bog, left at the abandoned primary school that exudes an air of menace, keep going past the bare-chested old ladies smearing themselves in dung, and then right at Sainsbury's. You can't miss it.AlastairMeeks said:
There are no numbers anywhere in my village.0 -
viewcode said:
O'Brien. "f...it is all nonsense. The Labour Party will never revolt, not in a thousand years or a million. They cannot. I do not have to tell you the reason: you know it already. If you have ever cherished any dreams of violent insurrection, you must abandon them. There is no way in which the Brexit can be overthrown. The rule of the Brexit is for ever...."Chris said:
That bit about "If there is any hope, it lies with the Labour party" sounds strangely familiar...williamglenn said:Corbyn's dilemma:
https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1085212765671833601
Not sure who the question marks were aimed at.Chris said:
Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????williamglenn said:0 -
All the people are in Parliament Square? Sounds unpleasant.Recidivist said:The People's Vote crowd have an impressive turnout in Parliament Square. I wonder how this influences proceedings in the House?
https://twitter.com/WinstonsBack/status/1085227083666780167
Then again, I'm not there, so I'm clearly not a person, and wouldn't know.0 -
probably as much as the crowds outside that Syria vote in Dec 2015.Recidivist said:The People's Vote crowd have an impressive turnout in Parliament Square. I wonder how this influences proceedings in the House?
https://twitter.com/WinstonsBack/status/10852270836667801670 -
Come to think of it, what about "Appeasement before the Second World War"? Bizarre.Chris said:
Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????williamglenn said:0 -
According to Con Home, Neil Parish will vote for the Deal, William Wragg against (both previously listed as probably voting against).
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Which is that specific area, please?SunnyJim said:
I am professionally involved with one specific area that has been the subject of almost hysterical predictions of doom from remainers.TOPPING said:
It's not a non-story. It's one of several (we will not run out of medicines, there will be enough food after March 29th) the need for which, if only to dismiss the premise, is mind-boggling.
Everybody I spoke to within the industry was relaxed right from the off about the consequences of Brexit and there was a widespread confidence there would be minimal, if any, actual disruption.
I don't know about other industries but if remainers are as accurate with their predictions elsewhere as with my industry then their claims are little more than project fear.0 -
Let me know when there's 17.4m of them.....Recidivist said:The People's Vote crowd have an impressive turnout in Parliament Square. I wonder how this influences proceedings in the House?
https://twitter.com/WinstonsBack/status/10852270836667801670 -
Don't forget, he sets a very low bar for failure, otherwise he wouldn't have stuck to DexEU for two years.Chris said:
Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????williamglenn said:0 -
It doesn't seem to have been noticed yet but it looks likely that more than half of all Conservative backbenchers are going to rebel tonight. That would look like a tipping point for Theresa May to me.0
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This kind of post is the problem I have with peoples vote. You see hardly anyone calling for peoples vote who wants to leave. And drumming up a crowd in London to support Remain is like shooting fish in a barrel. Try doing in Stoke then you can say it’s the will of the peopleRecidivist said:The People's Vote crowd have an impressive turnout in Parliament Square. I wonder how this influences proceedings in the House?
https://twitter.com/WinstonsBack/status/10852270836667801670 -
Demolition?viewcode said:
Which is that specific area, please?SunnyJim said:
I am professionally involved with one specific area that has been the subject of almost hysterical predictions of doom from remainers.TOPPING said:
It's not a non-story. It's one of several (we will not run out of medicines, there will be enough food after March 29th) the need for which, if only to dismiss the premise, is mind-boggling.
Everybody I spoke to within the industry was relaxed right from the off about the consequences of Brexit and there was a widespread confidence there would be minimal, if any, actual disruption.
I don't know about other industries but if remainers are as accurate with their predictions elsewhere as with my industry then their claims are little more than project fear.0 -
Only one way to find out!MarqueeMark said:
Let me know when there's 17.4m of them.....Recidivist said:The People's Vote crowd have an impressive turnout in Parliament Square. I wonder how this influences proceedings in the House?
https://twitter.com/WinstonsBack/status/10852270836667801670 -
Not only backbenchers eitherAlastairMeeks said:It doesn't seem to have been noticed yet but it looks likely that more than half of all Conservative backbenchers are going to rebel tonight. That would look like a tipping point for Theresa May to me.
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Elsewhere in the same interview:Chris said:
Come to think of it, what about "Appeasement before the Second World War"? Bizarre.Chris said:
Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????williamglenn said:
DER SPIEGEL: Was it wise to resign in the middle of the greatest chaos?
Davis: Yes, oh yes. When I realized that the prime minister is about to hand away the control of our own future, our independent nationhood, I couldn't go on.
DER SPIEGEL: Is Theresa May the right person to reconcile the party and the country?
Davis: Yeah, yeah. Since I stood down, I have always said change the policy not the person. I think she's a good prime minister.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/former-brexit-minister-david-davis-we-should-not-be-afraid-of-no-deal-a-1247602.html0 -
I was looking at it from the ERG's point of view. They are clear that they don't trust May to negotiate the trade agreement which, given her record to date, is entirely understandable. If the price of their support was her prompt departure she might just pay it. If she loses by 200+ tonight she surely has to go in any event.Nemtynakht said:
If this doesn’t end withMay going then I can’t see why the leavers have a problem. I think the EU is leaking and hinting at a better deal and as such is undermining May. She could carry on regardless as is her style but a deal which limits the backstop would go a long way to getting everyone on board. Once we have left then it is unlikely that we will go back in, the deal would be worse, the EU is now likely to unhindered move closer. Could she get a time limited nature for backstop, provide compensation for NI for change in status for limited time? Provide further reassurance on rights for labour leavers?DavidL said:I wonder if the Mays have packed.
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No. He's saying that decisions taken on gut instinct are correct even if the outcomes are catastrophic,: you take the best decision you can on the evidence available. It's not a bad thought but it should be counterweighted by the point that if you frequently make poor decisions then there might be something wrong with you.Chris said:
Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????williamglenn said:0 -
Just brilliant.williamglenn said:
Elsewhere in the same interview:Chris said:
Come to think of it, what about "Appeasement before the Second World War"? Bizarre.Chris said:
Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????williamglenn said:
DER SPIEGEL: Was it wise to resign in the middle of the greatest chaos?
Davis: Yes, oh yes. When I realized that the prime minister is about to hand away the control of our own future, our independent nationhood, I couldn't go on.
DER SPIEGEL: Is Theresa May the right person to reconcile the party and the country?
Davis: Yeah, yeah. Since I stood down, I have always said change the policy not the person. I think she's a good prime minister.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/former-brexit-minister-david-davis-we-should-not-be-afraid-of-no-deal-a-1247602.html0 -
Newington?Nemtynakht said:
This kind of post is the problem I have with peoples vote. You see hardly anyone calling for peoples vote who wants to leave. And drumming up a crowd in London to support Remain is like shooting fish in a barrel. Try doing in Stoke then you can say it’s the will of the peopleRecidivist said:The People's Vote crowd have an impressive turnout in Parliament Square. I wonder how this influences proceedings in the House?
https://twitter.com/WinstonsBack/status/10852270836667801670 -
This is even funnier than the Suez / appeasement ramble.williamglenn said:
Elsewhere in the same interview:Chris said:
Come to think of it, what about "Appeasement before the Second World War"? Bizarre.Chris said:
Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????williamglenn said:
DER SPIEGEL: Was it wise to resign in the middle of the greatest chaos?
Davis: Yes, oh yes. When I realized that the prime minister is about to hand away the control of our own future, our independent nationhood, I couldn't go on.
DER SPIEGEL: Is Theresa May the right person to reconcile the party and the country?
Davis: Yeah, yeah. Since I stood down, I have always said change the policy not the person. I think she's a good prime minister.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/former-brexit-minister-david-davis-we-should-not-be-afraid-of-no-deal-a-1247602.html0 -
You keep saying this, but I think you’re wrong. She won the vote of confidence just a month ago. She isn’t going to leave because Bill Cash and the other 100 miscreants think she should. It would be totally out of character.DavidL said:
I was looking at it from the ERG's point of view. They are clear that they don't trust May to negotiate the trade agreement which, given her record to date, is entirely understandable. If the price of their support was her prompt departure she might just pay it. If she loses by 200+ tonight she surely has to go in any event.Nemtynakht said:
If this doesn’t end withMay going then I can’t see why the leavers have a problem. I think the EU is leaking and hinting at a better deal and as such is undermining May. She could carry on regardless as is her style but a deal which limits the backstop would go a long way to getting everyone on board. Once we have left then it is unlikely that we will go back in, the deal would be worse, the EU is now likely to unhindered move closer. Could she get a time limited nature for backstop, provide compensation for NI for change in status for limited time? Provide further reassurance on rights for labour leavers?DavidL said:I wonder if the Mays have packed.
She will be in the cockpit when we hit the water/enter hyperspace/land in enemy territory.0 -
A tipping point for what?AlastairMeeks said:It doesn't seem to have been noticed yet but it looks likely that more than half of all Conservative backbenchers are going to rebel tonight. That would look like a tipping point for Theresa May to me.
Do numbers even matter anymore?0 -
She cannot revoke it on her own initiative. If parliament does authorise revoke that is validPhilip_Thompson said:
Let's say May says time is up and her final act of PM is revoking her Article 50. Parliament authorises it. Would that be valid?Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are possessed with this. I respect Ken Clarke but did not hear his comments
The simple fact is A50 can only be revoked through the UK consitutional process
It cannot be used as a ruse and to re-invoke has to be in a manner that would pass an ECJ ruling
Then let's say we have a leadership election. The winner wins on a platform of fulfilling Brexit with a more specific agenda than Brexit means Brexit. Parliament authorises invoking Article 50 again. Would that be valid?
However, if circumstances change and Parliament decides to invoke A50 that would be fine but may be subject to an ECJ ruling from remainers or the 27 nations
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Well, we will soon find out.RoyalBlue said:
You keep saying this, but I think you’re wrong. She won the vote of confidence just a month ago. She isn’t going to leave because Bill Cash and the other 100 miscreants think she should. It would be totally out of character.DavidL said:
I was looking at it from the ERG's point of view. They are clear that they don't trust May to negotiate the trade agreement which, given her record to date, is entirely understandable. If the price of their support was her prompt departure she might just pay it. If she loses by 200+ tonight she surely has to go in any event.Nemtynakht said:
If this doesn’t end withMay going then I can’t see why the leavers have a problem. I think the EU is leaking and hinting at a better deal and as such is undermining May. She could carry on regardless as is her style but a deal which limits the backstop would go a long way to getting everyone on board. Once we have left then it is unlikely that we will go back in, the deal would be worse, the EU is now likely to unhindered move closer. Could she get a time limited nature for backstop, provide compensation for NI for change in status for limited time? Provide further reassurance on rights for labour leavers?DavidL said:I wonder if the Mays have packed.
She will be in the cockpit when we hit the water/enter hyperspace/land in enemy territory.0 -
Most people need an interpreter when speaking in a foreign language. Not Davis, obviously as he could also be offering balance (unlikely, I know).viewcode said:
No. He's saying that decisions taken on gut instinct are correct even if the outcomes are catastrophic,: you take the best decision you can on the evidence available. It's not a bad thought but it should be counterweighted by the point that if you frequently make poor decisions then there might be something wrong with you.Chris said:
Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????williamglenn said:0 -
I think he must have been drunk.Chris said:
Just brilliant.williamglenn said:
Elsewhere in the same interview:Chris said:
Come to think of it, what about "Appeasement before the Second World War"? Bizarre.Chris said:
Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????williamglenn said:
DER SPIEGEL: Was it wise to resign in the middle of the greatest chaos?
Davis: Yes, oh yes. When I realized that the prime minister is about to hand away the control of our own future, our independent nationhood, I couldn't go on.
DER SPIEGEL: Is Theresa May the right person to reconcile the party and the country?
Davis: Yeah, yeah. Since I stood down, I have always said change the policy not the person. I think she's a good prime minister.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/former-brexit-minister-david-davis-we-should-not-be-afraid-of-no-deal-a-1247602.html0 -
Pancake into the landscape ?RoyalBlue said:
You keep saying this, but I think you’re wrong. She won the vote of confidence just a month ago. She isn’t going to leave because Bill Cash and the other 100 miscreants think she should. It would be totally out of character.DavidL said:
I was looking at it from the ERG's point of view. They are clear that they don't trust May to negotiate the trade agreement which, given her record to date, is entirely understandable. If the price of their support was her prompt departure she might just pay it. If she loses by 200+ tonight she surely has to go in any event.Nemtynakht said:
If this doesn’t end withMay going then I can’t see why the leavers have a problem. I think the EU is leaking and hinting at a better deal and as such is undermining May. She could carry on regardless as is her style but a deal which limits the backstop would go a long way to getting everyone on board. Once we have left then it is unlikely that we will go back in, the deal would be worse, the EU is now likely to unhindered move closer. Could she get a time limited nature for backstop, provide compensation for NI for change in status for limited time? Provide further reassurance on rights for labour leavers?DavidL said:I wonder if the Mays have packed.
She will be in the cockpit when we hit the water/enter hyperspace/land in enemy territory.
0 -
There used to be such a programme on Saturday (BBC2 I think, in the early evening), fronted by Vincent Hanna and Andrew Rawnsley: "A Week in Politics" and it had what you describe, as well as other interesting stuff.Gardenwalker said:
On TV, not radio, and weekly, not daily.grabcocque said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qtqdGardenwalker said:I only ever see the occasional clip of the House on social media.
I think there would be an audience for a weekly round up, well-edited, but free of commentary and voiceover, featuring the most interesting contributions in the Commons, the Lords, and in public speeches. Not in a satirical or trivial way but genuinely aiming to create an ongoing narrative of our political scene.
Well, an audience of at least one, anyway...
If something like that were revived, I'd join you in the audience.0 -
Apols for the language, but he does have a point.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/10851783453971456010 -
Spurs season and the Brexit deal hit the rocks on the same day.
sub-optimal.0 -
I think he might have been sober. Its a dangerous state.Sean_F said:
I think he must have been drunk.Chris said:
Just brilliant.williamglenn said:
Elsewhere in the same interview:Chris said:
Come to think of it, what about "Appeasement before the Second World War"? Bizarre.Chris said:
Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????williamglenn said:
DER SPIEGEL: Was it wise to resign in the middle of the greatest chaos?
Davis: Yes, oh yes. When I realized that the prime minister is about to hand away the control of our own future, our independent nationhood, I couldn't go on.
DER SPIEGEL: Is Theresa May the right person to reconcile the party and the country?
Davis: Yeah, yeah. Since I stood down, I have always said change the policy not the person. I think she's a good prime minister.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/former-brexit-minister-david-davis-we-should-not-be-afraid-of-no-deal-a-1247602.html0 -
Are we sure that wasn’t Der Tägliche Brei ?Gardenwalker said:
This is even funnier than the Suez / appeasement ramble.williamglenn said:
Elsewhere in the same interview:Chris said:
Come to think of it, what about "Appeasement before the Second World War"? Bizarre.Chris said:
Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????williamglenn said:
DER SPIEGEL: Was it wise to resign in the middle of the greatest chaos?
Davis: Yes, oh yes. When I realized that the prime minister is about to hand away the control of our own future, our independent nationhood, I couldn't go on.
DER SPIEGEL: Is Theresa May the right person to reconcile the party and the country?
Davis: Yeah, yeah. Since I stood down, I have always said change the policy not the person. I think she's a good prime minister.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/former-brexit-minister-david-davis-we-should-not-be-afraid-of-no-deal-a-1247602.html
0 -
Hmm. Maybe that's what he was trying to say.viewcode said:
No. He's saying that decisions taken on gut instinct are correct even if the outcomes are catastrophic,: you take the best decision you can on the evidence available. It's not a bad thought but it should be counterweighted by the point that if you frequently make poor decisions then there might be something wrong with you.Chris said:
Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????williamglenn said:
But I don't think appeasement before WWII is a very good example of "big changes demand that you don't run away in fear from a decision." Wasn't appeasement essentially a way of avoiding a hard decision?0 -
Wealthy old man thinks having sex with a woman young enough to be his daughter after a history of relationship failures is something to be proud ofAnorak said:Apols for the language, but he does have a point.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/10851783453971456010 -
I believe the current phrase is "controlled flight into terrain"...Nigelb said:
Pancake into the landscape ?RoyalBlue said:
You keep saying this, but I think you’re wrong. She won the vote of confidence just a month ago. She isn’t going to leave because Bill Cash and the other 100 miscreants think she should. It would be totally out of character.DavidL said:
I was looking at it from the ERG's point of view. They are clear that they don't trust May to negotiate the trade agreement which, given her record to date, is entirely understandable. If the price of their support was her prompt departure she might just pay it. If she loses by 200+ tonight she surely has to go in any event.Nemtynakht said:
If this doesn’t end withMay going then I can’t see why the leavers have a problem. I think the EU is leaking and hinting at a better deal and as such is undermining May. She could carry on regardless as is her style but a deal which limits the backstop would go a long way to getting everyone on board. Once we have left then it is unlikely that we will go back in, the deal would be worse, the EU is now likely to unhindered move closer. Could she get a time limited nature for backstop, provide compensation for NI for change in status for limited time? Provide further reassurance on rights for labour leavers?DavidL said:I wonder if the Mays have packed.
She will be in the cockpit when we hit the water/enter hyperspace/land in enemy territory.0 -
It's just awful all the way through, from the appalling smugness to "my Belgian private equity friend" to "the Cracker from Caracas". What a copper bottomed, gold plated, leather bound tosser.viewcode said:
Wealthy old man thinks having sex with a woman young enough to be his daughter after a history of relationship failures is something to be proud ofAnorak said:Apols for the language, but he does have a point.*snip*
0 -
Miss Cyclefree, on that note, it irks me when political journalists tell us what politicians say instead of playing the footage directly.
It's akin to 'filtering' in writing, whereby the writer, by mistake or error, ends up saying X saw Y, instead of just describing Y. It creates unnecessary distance between the reader (or viewer, in the previous example) and the subject.
Anyway, I am off for the evening. Do have a calm and civil evening, everyone.0 -
Drove down my S Glos high st earlier and no one gathered here. I must assume they have all gone up to London0
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It might well be. But I don't think that's what he thinks.Chris said:
Hmm. Maybe that's what he was trying to say.viewcode said:
No. He's saying that decisions taken on gut instinct are correct even if the outcomes are catastrophic,: you take the best decision you can on the evidence available. It's not a bad thought but it should be counterweighted by the point that if you frequently make poor decisions then there might be something wrong with you.Chris said:
Davis considers Suez was a British success ??????????????????????????????williamglenn said:
But I don't think appeasement before WWII is a very good example of "big changes demand that you don't run away in fear from a decision." Wasn't appeasement essentially a way of avoiding a hard decision?0 -
Just had a walk through the crowd outside Parliament. People walking around banging drums and waving flags in your face. Bit of a weird experience. I thought about trying to get in the public gallery but the queue was pretty long.0
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Colour me completely unsurprised. This. Is. The. Deal.williamglenn said:0 -
The all time record depends largely on the no-shows then?DavidL said:
I think they will prove to be out by at least 50 abstentions but they may be near right about the level of support for May.SandyRentool said:Sky sticking to their 225 vote margin: 199 plays 424
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Indeed.Anorak said:
It's just awful all the way through, from the appalling smugness to "my Belgian private equity friend" to "the Cracker from Caracas". What a copper bottomed, gold plated, leather bound tosser.viewcode said:
Wealthy old man thinks having sex with a woman young enough to be his daughter after a history of relationship failures is something to be proud ofAnorak said:Apols for the language, but he does have a point.*snip*
0 -
Agree in part. I don't think she's going to shift; however, as long as Theresa May stonewalls Parliament and refuses to budge on her Deal then it's to the advantage of the Leave wing to let her carry on, because the clock continues to run down whilst the various groups of Remainers cluck and flap and agonise over the best course of action.RoyalBlue said:
You keep saying this, but I think you’re wrong. She won the vote of confidence just a month ago. She isn’t going to leave because Bill Cash and the other 100 miscreants think she should. It would be totally out of character.DavidL said:
I was looking at it from the ERG's point of view. They are clear that they don't trust May to negotiate the trade agreement which, given her record to date, is entirely understandable. If the price of their support was her prompt departure she might just pay it. If she loses by 200+ tonight she surely has to go in any event.Nemtynakht said:
If this doesn’t end withMay going then I can’t see why the leavers have a problem. I think the EU is leaking and hinting at a better deal and as such is undermining May. She could carry on regardless as is her style but a deal which limits the backstop would go a long way to getting everyone on board. Once we have left then it is unlikely that we will go back in, the deal would be worse, the EU is now likely to unhindered move closer. Could she get a time limited nature for backstop, provide compensation for NI for change in status for limited time? Provide further reassurance on rights for labour leavers?DavidL said:I wonder if the Mays have packed.
She will be in the cockpit when we hit the water/enter hyperspace/land in enemy territory.
Things only begin to get more sticky if Mr Speaker changes the rules to remove Government control of Commons business, allowing the Tory Hard Remainers to attempt to alter the course of Brexit, or if May herself decides to throw her Withdrawal Agreement in the dustbin and start from scratch. Both outcomes are possible, although why she would burn the Deal is beyond me. She insists that the referendum result must be honoured and that her negotiation has produced the best available way of doing this. It also constitutes more or less the sum total of her achievement as Prime Minister.0 -
Can we not just ban all political junk mail? Mine go straight into the recycling. Does anyone actually read this dismal propaganda?Foxy said:
Anyone who has ever done party leafletting would sign up for that in a flash!DavidL said:
I used to hate low level letterboxes when delivering newspapers. They were never big enough, chewed up the paper and all too often had a really annoying yappy dog on the other side of it trying to get your fingers. Sign me up for that one.eek said:Change of timing for tomorrow
https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258
You have to love Parliament...0 -
Prediction time? I'm going optimistic, and saying May will lose the vote by 195.0
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As I explained the other day if we end up with a no deal Brexit and no toilet rolls it will be an important resource.Anazina said:
Can we not just ban all political junk mail? Mine go straight into the recycling. Does anyone actually read this dismal propaganda?Foxy said:
Anyone who has ever done party leafletting would sign up for that in a flash!DavidL said:
I used to hate low level letterboxes when delivering newspapers. They were never big enough, chewed up the paper and all too often had a really annoying yappy dog on the other side of it trying to get your fingers. Sign me up for that one.eek said:Change of timing for tomorrow
https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258
You have to love Parliament...0 -
Yet this morning we had https://order-order.com/2019/01/15/german-foreign-minister-opens-door-talks/Anorak said:
Colour me completely unsurprised. This. Is. The. Deal.williamglenn said:
Seems like they are trying to undermine May. This fake news reminds me of something0 -
I imagine it to be like when the saucer section lands on Veridian III. Survivable, but unpleasant.viewcode said:
I believe the current phrase is "controlled flight into terrain"...Nigelb said:
Pancake into the landscape ?RoyalBlue said:
You keep saying this, but I think you’re wrong. She won the vote of confidence just a month ago. She isn’t going to leave because Bill Cash and the other 100 miscreants think she should. It would be totally out of character.DavidL said:
I was looking at it from the ERG's point of view. They are clear that they don't trust May to negotiate the trade agreement which, given her record to date, is entirely understandable. If the price of their support was her prompt departure she might just pay it. If she loses by 200+ tonight she surely has to go in any event.Nemtynakht said:
If this doesn’t end withMay going then I can’t see why the leavers have a problem. I think the EU is leaking and hinting at a better deal and as such is undermining May. She could carry on regardless as is her style but a deal which limits the backstop would go a long way to getting everyone on board. Once we have left then it is unlikely that we will go back in, the deal would be worse, the EU is now likely to unhindered move closer. Could she get a time limited nature for backstop, provide compensation for NI for change in status for limited time? Provide further reassurance on rights for labour leavers?DavidL said:I wonder if the Mays have packed.
She will be in the cockpit when we hit the water/enter hyperspace/land in enemy territory.0 -
Yes.Anazina said:
Can we not just ban all political junk mail? Mine go straight into the recycling. Does anyone actually read this dismal propaganda?Foxy said:
Anyone who has ever done party leafletting would sign up for that in a flash!DavidL said:
I used to hate low level letterboxes when delivering newspapers. They were never big enough, chewed up the paper and all too often had a really annoying yappy dog on the other side of it trying to get your fingers. Sign me up for that one.eek said:Change of timing for tomorrow
https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258
You have to love Parliament...
Voters get annoyed if nobody tells them what their options are. I know from experience0 -
Well there's always an angle that enables you to dismiss people you disagree with. Who cares what muesli eating Londoners think? Who cares what the old and uneducated think?Nemtynakht said:
This kind of post is the problem I have with peoples vote. You see hardly anyone calling for peoples vote who wants to leave. And drumming up a crowd in London to support Remain is like shooting fish in a barrel. Try doing in Stoke then you can say it’s the will of the peopleRecidivist said:The People's Vote crowd have an impressive turnout in Parliament Square. I wonder how this influences proceedings in the House?
https://twitter.com/WinstonsBack/status/1085227083666780167
But the fact is that it is looking like the whole Brexit process is going to be played out while parliament is surrounded by crowds highly motivated to oppose it. The last time crowds took that much interest was the Great Reform Act.
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Hoppo has an unusual profile insofar as he is a) a commitmented atheist and secularist b) a believer in homeopathy.Sean_F said:
I've been unable to find any certain information about Kelvin Hopkins.AlastairMeeks said:
Ergo, he doesn’t believe the myth of a bloke turning water into wine but does believe in blokes turning water into medicine.
An odd combo!0 -
It is not junk mail. It is political literature, fundamental to any healthy democracy.Anazina said:
Can we not just ban all political junk mail? Mine go straight into the recycling. Does anyone actually read this dismal propaganda?Foxy said:
Anyone who has ever done party leafletting would sign up for that in a flash!DavidL said:
I used to hate low level letterboxes when delivering newspapers. They were never big enough, chewed up the paper and all too often had a really annoying yappy dog on the other side of it trying to get your fingers. Sign me up for that one.eek said:Change of timing for tomorrow
https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258
You have to love Parliament...
Whether people read it or not depends on the area. Prosperous retireds? Oh yes. Working 30 or 40 somethings? Almost never.0 -
In my view yes but most the betting seems to be on the Ayes and it shouldn't affect that unless some MPs vote in both lobbies.Anazina said:
The all time record depends largely on the no-shows then?DavidL said:
I think they will prove to be out by at least 50 abstentions but they may be near right about the level of support for May.SandyRentool said:Sky sticking to their 225 vote margin: 199 plays 424
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Even worse are the narrow vertical ones that require you to put everything else down and twist from the waist.Pulpstar said:
Fun and amendments..eek said:Change of timing for tomorrow
https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1085218412597600258
You have to love Parliament...
I propose that this house bans low level letter boxes and revokes Article 500 -
Have bought 229. No idea where the extra votes will come from but something has to happen and the alternative is just bonkers. Although I also accept that it might take a couple of goes to pass.0
This discussion has been closed.