politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Layla Moran now becomes favourite to become next LD leader
Comments
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Mr Topping, surely the problem with the FoM argument and every other detail on Brexit is that there was no defined manifesto for Brexit, so we can only work from unreliable opinion polls as to what peoples' motivations were. Even Farage and Hannon regularly argued during the campaign in favour of Norway as an example which clearly involves FoM. Brexit means many different things to many people, depending on how extreme they are on the issue, (and others including gay marriage apparently!) . May's deal clearly delivers on the result based on the essentially wording of the question, and the fact that it is disliked by so many (including myself) probably means that it is about right.0
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They could propose May's Deal be put to the people. That would pass.Jonathan said:
They could substitute the backstop with re-entry if a permanent deal is not agreed after X years.david_herdson said:
There won't be a Plan B: it'll be Plan A again. Nothing has changed.Philip_Thompson said:
What happens if Plan B is voted down?Richard_Nabavi said:It's important to note that the Grieve amendment is not limited to requiring the PM to make a statement in the Commons with three days, it requires the government to hold a ‘plan B’ vote within three sitting days - i.e., by Monday week. So she will have just six days to extract meaningful concessions from the EU27.
You might think that is a good thing, given the very limited time still left. It's certainly a substantive amendment.
And in reality, nothing has changed. The government cannot magic up a Norway Plus agreement from thin air. The only solutions are Deal, No Deal and Remain: the same as they always were.
That could pass HoC, satisfy the 2016 referendum and give all sides something to aim for. Alas. Will never happen.0 -
No, but there was plenty in the Leave campaigns' material, which can't simply be ignored in delivering what people thought they were voting for. It included taking back control of our borders, negotiating an orderly exit from the EU, negotiating a comprehensive trade deal with the EU, and being in a position to do trade deals elsewhere. Theresa May has done an excellent job of synthesising an incoherent and sometimes self-contradictory set of aims into the most workable and least damaging implementation possible, assuming we're going to leave the EU at all. It's unfortunate that the Brexiteers, having got exactly what they campaigned for, decided to team up with a cynical Labour Party to trash it, leaving us with chaos.Dadge said:
Brexit means Brexit, ie. leaving the EU. There was nothing on the ballot paper about what form Brexit should take.Richard_Nabavi said:
You are assuming that anyone who didn't vote Leave and who didn't put FoM down as the most important issue wasn't fussed about FoM. That's plainly wrong. Many people who voted Leave who wouldn't have put it first would nonetheless have put it as important, and many people who voted Remain did so despite not wanting FoM to continue unchanged.TOPPING said:Well let's take the most contentious issue - freedom of movement. Some huge percentage (~50%) of Leave voters cited it as being the most important issue. That makes (0.5 x 17.4)/(16.1 + 17.4) = 26% of voters cared about it. And yet it drove almost her entire approach.
Why even our very own @Richard_Tyndall would have been happy with continued FoM. Don't even get me started on the single market and customs union.
She instituted red lines before she had thought it through. It was designed to appeal to her hard Brexit wing as she knew (and of course she was right) that they would cause trouble and in any case, she was set on a hard Brexit herself.
No mitigation for this, Richard - she owns it.
A form of Brexit which left FoM untouched would be a complete travesty.0 -
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'0 -
A theory about Dominic Grieve
He:
1) Commands a majority in the house of commons
2) Sets the scheduling of the government business
3) Has a firm grasp of parliamentary reality and how to use it to achieve his ends
4) Is best placed to find a workable solution to the Brexit impasse that Parliament can support.
Conclusion: Dominic Grieve is actually the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.0 -
Despite the handicap of being a Conservative it's fair to assume Rees Mogg knows more about parliamentary procedure than his colleagues on either side of the house.brendan16 said:
Maybe we should hold another vote on the Grieve amendment as its possible some MPs were not clear what they were voting for?!Benpointer said:
JRM thinks no debate is required. Who's right?Richard_Nabavi said:It's important to note that the Grieve amendment is not limited to requiring the PM to make a statement in the Commons within three days, it requires the government to hold a ‘plan B’ vote within three sitting days - i.e., by Monday week. So she will have just six days to extract meaningful concessions from the EU27.
You might think that is a good thing, given the very limited time still left. It's certainly a substantive amendment.
https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/10830115905076879360 -
Mr. Cocque, your implication that competence leads to high office is negated by recent history.0
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Quite right. Not only was her slogan Brexit Meanz Brexit the most divisive slogan in living memory it might also be a rare example of a single slogan losing an election which otherwise would have been won.TOPPING said:
Not at all. May decided to treat the referendum result like it was a General Election - forget the other lot they can have their say in five years time. Except it was a once in a generation vote.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not their organisation or chaos that is their issue. They may have been backed by 52% of voters but the 48% have the majority of MPs. No organisation skills or even the Wisdom of Solomon could overcome that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Bercow is not a suitable speaker. However, TM deal or remain seem likely so I am content but am concerned about the divisive nature a referendum would beTOPPING said:
You're on the wrong side of this one Big G. Allow your natural sense of justice and cool eye for common sense to prevail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really.TOPPING said:
And it's his wife's. That just about puts you on the same level as Holloway, Big G, and that's not a great place to be.Big_G_NorthWales said:Bercows car sticker raised
Bercow has lost any pretence at being impartial and now is firmly seen as as wanting to stop brexit
Parliament will be voting, not Bercow. You know, the whole take back control thing. What are you scared of?
The remain mps are in control and well organised. ERG are going to lose brexit due to their chaotic organisation
She should have brought together all sides of the debate to forge, together with the EU, a sensible, consensus-building Brexit.
But she didn't. She treated it like a GE and, like GEs, that set up the expectation of "the other side" having another crack at it via subsequent votes, in this case a second referendum.0 -
FTSE100 is liking the moves to head off No Deal - highest for a month.0
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the variations on that are quite startlingTheScreamingEagles said:
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'0 -
On that basis, the absence of £350m a week more funding for the NHS is a good reason to vote against Theresa May's Brexit deal. Or any Brexit proposal.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, but there was plenty in the Leave campaigns' material, which can't simply be ignored in delivering what people thought they were voting for. It included taking back control of our borders, negotiating an orderly exit from the EU, negotiating a comprehensive trade deal with the EU, and being in a position to do trade deals elsewhere.Dadge said:
Brexit means Brexit, ie. leaving the EU. There was nothing on the ballot paper about what form Brexit should take.Richard_Nabavi said:
You are assuming that anyone who didn't vote Leave and who didn't put FoM down as the most important issue wasn't fussed about FoM. That's plainly wrong. Many people who voted Leave who wouldn't have put it first would nonetheless have put it as important, and many people who voted Remain did so despite not wanting FoM to continue unchanged.TOPPING said:Well let's take the most contentious issue - freedom of movement. Some huge percentage (~50%) of Leave voters cited it as being the most important issue. That makes (0.5 x 17.4)/(16.1 + 17.4) = 26% of voters cared about it. And yet it drove almost her entire approach.
Why even our very own @Richard_Tyndall would have been happy with continued FoM. Don't even get me started on the single market and customs union.
She instituted red lines before she had thought it through. It was designed to appeal to her hard Brexit wing as she knew (and of course she was right) that they would cause trouble and in any case, she was set on a hard Brexit herself.
No mitigation for this, Richard - she owns it.
A form of Brexit which left FoM untouched would be a complete travesty.0 -
I know autocorrect is poor technology but correcting a common word like forest to a relatively rare given name like Forrest is fairly unlikely, I'd venture.TheScreamingEagles said:
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'0 -
I think thats to do with China-US trade rather than BrexitBenpointer said:FTSE100 is liking the moves to head off No Deal - highest for a month.
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If the name Forrest is in Trump's contacts, I'd expect it do default to that.Anazina said:
I know autocorrect is poor technology but correcting a common word like forest to a relatively rare given name like Forrest is fairly unlikely, I'd venture.TheScreamingEagles said:
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'0 -
It is, of course, possible that you were down as a non-swingable voter, and thus not targetted for either.oxfordsimon said:
I think that might be somewhat overstating her personal role in that movementFoxy said:
The way she persuaded Lab tactical voters to the LDs, and for Greens to not field a candidate shows a degree of political persuasiveness much needed in the party.stodge said:Afternoon all
Fairly predictably, I imagine some of the Conservative activists on here have been pretty negative about Layla. Well, that's to be expected. Any possible leader of any other party is immediately denigrated and mocked.
As for future Conservative leaders, well, the Tories do a very good line in parody and self-mockery which seems to consist of calling each other "sh1ts" or similar. Ho hum.
While I don't agree with her on policy (at least in this instance), I think if Layla Moran wants to be leader, fine, let her put herself forward and along with other Party members, I'll go to the hustings and see what she has to say.
She has impressed me thus far not least for wrenching Oxford West from the Conservatives last time. I do want to hear she would take the challenge to Labour and particularly how she could draw moderate Labour supporters toward the LDs.
A lot of the vote shift seemed to happen in the Ab part of the constituency which had been heading in that direction significantly at council level.
I have no recollection of seeing her being personally active in driving any particular tactical agenda. There were those at work on it but it seemed to be from Labour modereates looking for a new home.
There was zero LD canvassing in my part of Jericho and very little leafleting.
There was a massive push all around the constituency, and I know for a fact that target letters were delivered in the Jericho ward.0 -
You seem very certain of that.Andy_Cooke said:Layla is not going to stand.
Cable will stand down in the second quarter of this year. The media will talk up the possibility of Layla standing; she won't.
The contest will be between Jo Swinson and Ed Davey, with Jo winning.
I have to keep reminding myself the Party I joined in 1981 died in the fire of the Coalition. This is a very new party with a new membership and I do think Layla's social liberal credentials will play very well. I'm concerned Jo and Ed carry the stench of the Coalition on them (as does Vince in all fairness) and you can be sure next time the Party will want a huge amount from any "deal" with anyone.
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Indeed. This clear truth is all too rarely advanced. The Leave campaign promised a great many things, none of which were on the ballot paper save leaving the EU in some way or another.TOPPING said:
But that wasn't the option they were given at the referendum. As @Dadge has pointed out, that was not a choice they were asked to make. Although the loons have got hold of the Conch shell, and they would have you believe otherwise, it really is the case that Norway is not in the EU. Amazing, yes, but that is the case.brendan16 said:Its like implying if you think education is a more important issue than the NHS you don't care about the NHS!
You could equally quote other polls like this one which suggested 86% of Tory and two thirds of Labour voters wanted to reduce EU immigration. - which implies at the least they want some sort of reform/ending of freedom of movement or at least restricting access to welfare.
But like support for a people's vote on the deal vs a second referendum on Brexit voters responses to polls depend on the question asked - even if the options are the same in effect!
https://www.politico.eu/article/poll-three-quarters-of-brits-back-dramatic-fall-in-immigration/
So the ballot paper asked us if, amongst other options, we might like to be like Norway. Not a sausage about the foreigners.0 -
Those who would trade liberty for security deserve neitherFF43 said:
In terms of dealing with unwelcome influence you are absolutely correct. Putin supports Brexit because he reckons it causes disarray and will make the West generally weaker. It should give pause to thought for those in favour of Brexit, why they are on the same side as the rogue statesman of Russia, who wishes us no good.MTimT said:Bringing up that Putin supports Brexit is idiotic in this context. The only acceptable thing to do for any Brit who has any influence over Brexit is to totally ignore what foreign actors want, including Putin, and decide their conscience on what should or should not be done.
If you want to argue against foreign influence in a matter, you don't use foreign preferences in the debate. You can bet that she would not have mentioned Putin at all if Putin's views coincided with hers.0 -
Yes - the passing of the Grieve amendment has also driven up the Dow Jones by 150 points too since it opened an hour ago!Benpointer said:FTSE100 is liking the moves to head off No Deal - highest for a month.
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Well, that was always impossible, so hardly counts one way or the other.Chris said:
On that basis, the absence of £350m a week more funding for the NHS is a good reason to vote against Theresa May's Brexit deal. Or any Brexit proposal.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, but there was plenty in the Leave campaigns' material, which can't simply be ignored in delivering what people thought they were voting for. It included taking back control of our borders, negotiating an orderly exit from the EU, negotiating a comprehensive trade deal with the EU, and being in a position to do trade deals elsewhere.Dadge said:
Brexit means Brexit, ie. leaving the EU. There was nothing on the ballot paper about what form Brexit should take.Richard_Nabavi said:
You are assuming that anyone who didn't vote Leave and who didn't put FoM down as the most important issue wasn't fussed about FoM. That's plainly wrong. Many people who voted Leave who wouldn't have put it first would nonetheless have put it as important, and many people who voted Remain did so despite not wanting FoM to continue unchanged.TOPPING said:Well let's take the most contentious issue - freedom of movement. Some huge percentage (~50%) of Leave voters cited it as being the most important issue. That makes (0.5 x 17.4)/(16.1 + 17.4) = 26% of voters cared about it. And yet it drove almost her entire approach.
Why even our very own @Richard_Tyndall would have been happy with continued FoM. Don't even get me started on the single market and customs union.
She instituted red lines before she had thought it through. It was designed to appeal to her hard Brexit wing as she knew (and of course she was right) that they would cause trouble and in any case, she was set on a hard Brexit herself.
No mitigation for this, Richard - she owns it.
A form of Brexit which left FoM untouched would be a complete travesty.0 -
Perhaps it is a very obscure reference to Apocalypse Now ?Anazina said:
I know autocorrect is poor technology but correcting a common word like forest to a relatively rare given name like Forrest is fairly unlikely, I'd venture.TheScreamingEagles said:
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'0 -
I'm just glad when I was young and feckless mobile phones didn't let you take pictures/videos of my fecklessness.Alanbrooke said:
the variations on that are quite startlingTheScreamingEagles said:
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'0 -
Indeed. The mind is quite over-boggled.Alanbrooke said:
the variations on that are quite startlingTheScreamingEagles said:
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'0 -
What's happening in Minnesota?Nigelb said:
Where the eff does the imbecile in the White House think the Federal government gets its money from ?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_tax_revenue_by_state0 -
May's job was to find something that would pass the HoC. With a minority that means listening to and working with others. She didn't do that and that's essentially why we're in the mess we are in.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, but there was plenty in the Leave campaigns' material, which can't simply be ignored in delivering what people thought they were voting for. It included taking back control of our borders, negotiating an orderly exit from the EU, negotiating a comprehensive trade deal with the EU, and being in a position to do trade deals elsewhere. Theresa May has done an excellent job of synthesising an incoherent and sometimes self-contradictory set of aims into the most workable and least damaging implementation possible, assuming we're going to leave the EU at all. It's unfortunate that the Brexiteers, having got exactly what they campaigned for, decided to team us with a cynical Labour Party to trash it, leaving us with chaos.Dadge said:
Brexit means Brexit, ie. leaving the EU. There was nothing on the ballot paper about what form Brexit should take.Richard_Nabavi said:
You are assuming that anyone who didn't vote Leave and who didn't put FoM down as the most important issue wasn't fussed about FoM. That's plainly wrong. Many people who voted Leave who wouldn't have put it first would nonetheless have put it as important, and many people who voted Remain did so despite not wanting FoM to continue unchanged.TOPPING said:Well let's take the most contentious issue - freedom of movement. Some huge percentage (~50%) of Leave voters cited it as being the most important issue. That makes (0.5 x 17.4)/(16.1 + 17.4) = 26% of voters cared about it. And yet it drove almost her entire approach.
Why even our very own @Richard_Tyndall would have been happy with continued FoM. Don't even get me started on the single market and customs union.
She instituted red lines before she had thought it through. It was designed to appeal to her hard Brexit wing as she knew (and of course she was right) that they would cause trouble and in any case, she was set on a hard Brexit herself.
No mitigation for this, Richard - she owns it.
A form of Brexit which left FoM untouched would be a complete travesty.
It's particularly heated because instead of working with others she actually set out to antagonise others. Now she is asking for support, surprisingly people aren't keen.0 -
Suspect forrest was autocorrected to Forrest.Anazina said:
I know autocorrect is poor technology but correcting a common word like forest to a relatively rare given name like Forrest is fairly unlikely, I'd venture.TheScreamingEagles said:
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'0 -
The Germans beat you to the sun-lounger again Felix?felix said:
Not much of an achievement in either case.Anazina said:
Yes, he had me fooled too.PClipp said:
My deepest apologies to you then. I always took you to be an extreme Tory. Unforgivable of me.oxfordsimon said:
Except I am not a hard-line Tory. I am an OxWAb voter who was not impressed by her at any point since she was selected. No actual substance to any of her positions. No rhetorical skill. No real world experience to add to the House. A deeply bland candidate.PClipp said:
Hard-line Tories don`t.oxfordsimon said:
She doesn't seem anything other than lightweight. No substance to her at all.megalomaniacs4u said:
I agree. From the press she gets in the Oxford Mail, she seems obsessed with identity politics and little else and comes over as very lightweight. The comments sections predictably call her "Layla Moron" and routinely rip apart her statements.MarqueeMark said:Layla Moran, the LibDem's Leanne Wood.....
Never have seen the appeal.
I have voted for a range of candidates over the past 30 years including Con and LD. But can't support Moran0 -
you would really have enjoyed the days when there were no mobile phonesTheScreamingEagles said:
I'm just glad when I was young and feckless mobile phones didn't let you take pictures/videos of my fecklessness.Alanbrooke said:
the variations on that are quite startlingTheScreamingEagles said:
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'0 -
Which is why those who would take away the rights of UK citizens to secure their identity must be defeated.Charles said:
Those who would trade liberty for security deserve neitherFF43 said:
In terms of dealing with unwelcome influence you are absolutely correct. Putin supports Brexit because he reckons it causes disarray and will make the West generally weaker. It should give pause to thought for those in favour of Brexit, why they are on the same side as the rogue statesman of Russia, who wishes us no good.MTimT said:Bringing up that Putin supports Brexit is idiotic in this context. The only acceptable thing to do for any Brit who has any influence over Brexit is to totally ignore what foreign actors want, including Putin, and decide their conscience on what should or should not be done.
If you want to argue against foreign influence in a matter, you don't use foreign preferences in the debate. You can bet that she would not have mentioned Putin at all if Putin's views coincided with hers.0 -
Mr. Jonathan, play fair. She can't even build a coalition within the Conservative Party. Bit unreasonable to expect her to manage a cross-party consensus.0
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Pulpstar said:
I voted remain but am certainly in favour of a lower YoY population...Richard_Nabavi said:
You are assuming that anyone who didn't vote Leave and who didn't put FoM down as the most important issue wasn't fussed about FoM. That's plainly wrong. Many people who voted Leave who wouldn't have put it first would nonetheless have put it as important, and many people who voted Remain did so despite not wanting FoM to continue unchanged.TOPPING said:Well let's take the most contentious issue - freedom of movement. Some huge percentage (~50%) of Leave voters cited it as being the most important issue. That makes (0.5 x 17.4)/(16.1 + 17.4) = 26% of voters cared about it. And yet it drove almost her entire approach.
Why even our very own @Richard_Tyndall would have been happy with continued FoM. Don't even get me started on the single market and customs union.
She instituted red lines before she had thought it through. It was designed to appeal to her hard Brexit wing as she knew (and of course she was right) that they would cause trouble and in any case, she was set on a hard Brexit herself.
No mitigation for this, Richard - she owns it.
A form of Brexit which left FoM untouched would be a complete travesty.
Excluding yourself and your family presumably? It reminds me of the old paradox of overpopulation – we should remove people until exactly the point that it requires that we have to remove ourselves.0 -
I don't think so. That 24 hours that o2 went down for, I felt like I had become Amish for the day.Alanbrooke said:
you would really have enjoyed the days when there were no mobile phonesTheScreamingEagles said:
I'm just glad when I was young and feckless mobile phones didn't let you take pictures/videos of my fecklessness.Alanbrooke said:
the variations on that are quite startlingTheScreamingEagles said:
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'0 -
Type in forest with two 'r's into an iPhone and auto-correct capitalises it to Forrest.Anazina said:
I know autocorrect is poor technology but correcting a common word like forest to a relatively rare given name like Forrest is fairly unlikely, I'd venture.TheScreamingEagles said:
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'0 -
Who are these 'others'? The SNP? The LibDems? Labour, whose position was the entirely cynical one of voting against whatever deal she came back with?Jonathan said:
May's job was to find something that would pass the HoC. With a minority that means listening to and working with others. She didn't do that and that's essentially why we're in the mess we are in.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, but there was plenty in the Leave campaigns' material, which can't simply be ignored in delivering what people thought they were voting for. It included taking back control of our borders, negotiating an orderly exit from the EU, negotiating a comprehensive trade deal with the EU, and being in a position to do trade deals elsewhere. Theresa May has done an excellent job of synthesising an incoherent and sometimes self-contradictory set of aims into the most workable and least damaging implementation possible, assuming we're going to leave the EU at all. It's unfortunate that the Brexiteers, having got exactly what they campaigned for, decided to team us with a cynical Labour Party to trash it, leaving us with chaos.Dadge said:
Brexit means Brexit, ie. leaving the EU. There was nothing on the ballot paper about what form Brexit should take.Richard_Nabavi said:
You are assuming that anyone who didn't vote Leave and who didn't put FoM down as the most important issue wasn't fussed about FoM. That's plainly wrong. Many people who voted Leave who wouldn't have put it first would nonetheless have put it as important, and many people who voted Remain did so despite not wanting FoM to continue unchanged.TOPPING said:Well let's take the most contentious issue - freedom of movement. Some huge percentage (~50%) of Leave voters cited it as being the most important issue. That makes (0.5 x 17.4)/(16.1 + 17.4) = 26% of voters cared about it. And yet it drove almost her entire approach.
Why even our very own @Richard_Tyndall would have been happy with continued FoM. Don't even get me started on the single market and customs union.
She instituted red lines before she had thought it through. It was designed to appeal to her hard Brexit wing as she knew (and of course she was right) that they would cause trouble and in any case, she was set on a hard Brexit herself.
No mitigation for this, Richard - she owns it.
A form of Brexit which left FoM untouched would be a complete travesty.
It's particularly heated because instead of working with others she actually set out to antagonise others. Now she is asking for support, surprisingly people aren't keen.
As I said, she did an abysmal job of persuasion, but her actual analysis and negotiation has been correctly positioned. There is no better deal available, never could be, and certainly won't be.0 -
Did mean one really looked forward to Saturday and contact with one's other half. Even if the arrangement was only temporary.Alanbrooke said:
you would really have enjoyed the days when there were no mobile phonesTheScreamingEagles said:
I'm just glad when I was young and feckless mobile phones didn't let you take pictures/videos of my fecklessness.Alanbrooke said:
the variations on that are quite startlingTheScreamingEagles said:
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'0 -
Farage, Hannon and many others argued at various times (perhaps when they thought they would lose) for us to consider Norway as a model. I think you may find it on YouTube. There was no clarity in the Leave side's argument that could be considered anything like a manifesto. Agree with you though, that while I would prefer the whole debacle had never happened, the May deal is the best bet for all sides and Leavers should stop carping and pretending that they clearly campaigned for a No Deal exit. After all, it was meant to be the easiest deal in history was it not?Richard_Nabavi said:
No, but there was plenty in the Leave campaigns' material, which can't simply be ignored in delivering what people thought they were voting for. It included taking back control of our borders, negotiating an orderly exit from the EU, negotiating a comprehensive trade deal with the EU, and being in a position to do trade deals elsewhere. Theresa May has done an excellent job of synthesising an incoherent and sometimes self-contradictory set of aims into the most workable and least damaging implementation possible, assuming we're going to leave the EU at all. It's unfortunate that the Brexiteers, having got exactly what they campaigned for, decided to team up with a cynical Labour Party to trash it, leaving us with chaos.Dadge said:
Brexit means Brexit, ie. leaving the EU. There was nothing on the ballot paper about what form Brexit should take.Richard_Nabavi said:
You are assuming that anyone who didn't vote Leave and who didn't put FoM down as the most important issue wasn't fussed about FoM. That's plainly wrong. Many people who voted Leave who wouldn't have put it first would nonetheless have put it as important, and many people who voted Remain did so despite not wanting FoM to continue unchanged.TOPPING said:Well let's take the most contentious issue - freedom of movement. Some huge percentage (~50%) of Leave voters cited it as being the most important issue. That makes (0.5 x 17.4)/(16.1 + 17.4) = 26% of voters cared about it. And yet it drove almost her entire approach.
Why even our very own @Richard_Tyndall would have been happy with continued FoM. Don't even get me started on the single market and customs union.
She instituted red lines before she had thought it through. It was designed to appeal to her hard Brexit wing as she knew (and of course she was right) that they would cause trouble and in any case, she was set on a hard Brexit herself.
No mitigation for this, Richard - she owns it.
A form of Brexit which left FoM untouched would be a complete travesty.0 -
Not without the agreement of the EU, you couldn't. Re-entry is subject to Article 49 and can't just be signed off in advance by the Council of Ministers, never mind the House of Commons.Jonathan said:
They could substitute the backstop with re-entry if a permanent deal is not agreed after X years.david_herdson said:
There won't be a Plan B: it'll be Plan A again. Nothing has changed.Philip_Thompson said:
What happens if Plan B is voted down?Richard_Nabavi said:It's important to note that the Grieve amendment is not limited to requiring the PM to make a statement in the Commons with three days, it requires the government to hold a ‘plan B’ vote within three sitting days - i.e., by Monday week. So she will have just six days to extract meaningful concessions from the EU27.
You might think that is a good thing, given the very limited time still left. It's certainly a substantive amendment.
And in reality, nothing has changed. The government cannot magic up a Norway Plus agreement from thin air. The only solutions are Deal, No Deal and Remain: the same as they always were.
That could pass HoC, satisfy the 2016 referendum and give all sides something to aim for. Alas. Will never happen.
This is the point. The Commons cannot rewrite what's in the WA. The EU won't re-open negotiations (or at least, not unless there is some new and compelling reason to do so, and without a new popular mandate of some sort, there won't be such a reason), so MPs are still stuck with the three options that have been there since the November summit.0 -
+1TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm just glad when I was young and feckless mobile phones didn't let you take pictures/videos of my fecklessness.Alanbrooke said:
the variations on that are quite startlingTheScreamingEagles said:
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'0 -
Mr. Eagles,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOfZLb33uCg0 -
yes, but what was the gaffers chance of finding you once you were out of the office ?OldKingCole said:
Did mean one really looked for forward to Saturday and contact with one's other half. Even if the arrangement was only temporary.Alanbrooke said:
you would really have enjoyed the days when there were no mobile phonesTheScreamingEagles said:
I'm just glad when I was young and feckless mobile phones didn't let you take pictures/videos of my fecklessness.Alanbrooke said:
the variations on that are quite startlingTheScreamingEagles said:
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'0 -
Indeed. May obsessed about it to keep her hard right frother wing onside. Much good that did her. Indeed it was all for nothing as the Ergers will vote down her deal regardless of the fact that it DOES end FoM. Not going for a SM/CU compromise must rank as one of the biggest political miscalculations of modern times.TOPPING said:
Huh? I'm saying that as an issue for 25% of the electorate it would have been a candidate for compromise.Philip_Thompson said:
Odd logic, speaking as a Leave voter who doesn't care about freedom of movement. You think 0.0% of Remain voters cared about freedom of movement?TOPPING said:
Well let's take the most contentious issue - freedom of movement. Some huge percentage (~50%) of Leave voters cited it as being the most important issue. That makes (0.5 x 17.4)/(16.1 + 17.4) = 26% of voters cared about it. And yet it drove almost her entire approach.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's an unfair characterisation of what she did. It is true that she failed abysmally in the people-management aspect of building a consensus, but in terms of substantive positioning she has very much tried to come up with a compromise deal which should be acceptable to all sides. She's tried very hard to implement the letter and the spirit of the referendum vote, whilst keeping close ties with Europe and minimising the economic hit. Unfortunately she has catastrophically failed to prevent others from framing the deal as they want to, for their own purposes.TOPPING said:Not at all. May decided to treat the referendum result like it was a General Election - forget the other lot they can have their say in five years time. Except it was a once in a generation vote.
She should have brought together all sides of the debate to forge, together with the EU, a sensible, consensus-building Brexit.
But she didn't. She treated it like a GE and, like GEs, that set up the expectation of "the other side" having another crack at it via subsequent votes, in this case a second referendum.
Why even our very own @Richard_Tyndall would have been happy with continued FoM. Don't even get me started on the single market and customs union.
She instituted red lines before she had thought it through. It was designed to appeal to her hard Brexit wing as she knew (and of course she was right) that they would cause trouble and in any case, she was set on a hard Brexit herself.
No mitigation for this, Richard - she owns it.
I believe even a significant proportion of remain voters still prefer control over migration, just not enough to vote Leave.0 -
I think it may be fair to assume that he doesn't. Despite his expensive education he is not regarded by colleagues to be the brightest ticket in parliament, hence why he has never held any serious office.Brom said:
Despite the handicap of being a Conservative it's fair to assume Rees Mogg knows more about parliamentary procedure than his colleagues on either side of the house.brendan16 said:
Maybe we should hold another vote on the Grieve amendment as its possible some MPs were not clear what they were voting for?!Benpointer said:
JRM thinks no debate is required. Who's right?Richard_Nabavi said:It's important to note that the Grieve amendment is not limited to requiring the PM to make a statement in the Commons within three days, it requires the government to hold a ‘plan B’ vote within three sitting days - i.e., by Monday week. So she will have just six days to extract meaningful concessions from the EU27.
You might think that is a good thing, given the very limited time still left. It's certainly a substantive amendment.
https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/10830115905076879360 -
The £ is up, slightly, against the $, but down marginally against the €. Conclusion: the markets see no deal/no Brexit as being no more or less likely than before.Benpointer said:FTSE100 is liking the moves to head off No Deal - highest for a month.
0 -
Not Dougal ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I don't think so. That 24 hours that o2 went down for, I felt like I had become Amish for the day.Alanbrooke said:
you would really have enjoyed the days when there were no mobile phonesTheScreamingEagles said:
I'm just glad when I was young and feckless mobile phones didn't let you take pictures/videos of my fecklessness.Alanbrooke said:
the variations on that are quite startlingTheScreamingEagles said:
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'0 -
To the point of lower agricultural land values in the main..Anazina said:
Excluding yourself and your family presumably? It reminds me of the old paradox of overpopulation – we should remove people until exactly the point that it requires that we have to remove ourselves.Pulpstar said:
I voted remain but am certainly in favour of a lower YoY population...Richard_Nabavi said:
You are assuming that anyone who didn't vote Leave and who didn't put FoM down as the most important issue wasn't fussed about FoM. That's plainly wrong. Many people who voted Leave who wouldn't have put it first would nonetheless have put it as important, and many people who voted Remain did so despite not wanting FoM to continue unchanged.TOPPING said:Well let's take the most contentious issue - freedom of movement. Some huge percentage (~50%) of Leave voters cited it as being the most important issue. That makes (0.5 x 17.4)/(16.1 + 17.4) = 26% of voters cared about it. And yet it drove almost her entire approach.
Why even our very own @Richard_Tyndall would have been happy with continued FoM. Don't even get me started on the single market and customs union.
She instituted red lines before she had thought it through. It was designed to appeal to her hard Brexit wing as she knew (and of course she was right) that they would cause trouble and in any case, she was set on a hard Brexit herself.
No mitigation for this, Richard - she owns it.
A form of Brexit which left FoM untouched would be a complete travesty.0 -
She does have a Parliamentary majority. She merely has to get her own party and her DUP partners to back the deal. She has no need of Labour support.Richard_Nabavi said:
Who are these 'others'? The SNP? The LibDems? Labour, whose position was the entirely cynical one of voting against whatever deal she came back with?
0 -
My housemates who have different political perspectives to me did not receive anything either.Andy_Cooke said:
It is, of course, possible that you were down as a non-swingable voter, and thus not targetted for either.oxfordsimon said:
I think that might be somewhat overstating her personal role in that movementFoxy said:
The way she persuaded Lab tactical voters to the LDs, and for Greens to not field a candidate shows a degree of political persuasiveness much needed in the party.stodge said:Afternoon all
Fairly predictably, I imagine some of the Conservative activists on here have been pretty negative about Layla. Well, that's to be expected. Any possible leader of any other party is immediately denigrated and mocked.
As for future Conservative leaders, well, the Tories do a very good line in parody and self-mockery which seems to consist of calling each other "sh1ts" or similar. Ho hum.
While I don't agree with her on policy (at least in this instance), I think if Layla Moran wants to be leader, fine, let her put herself forward and along with other Party members, I'll go to the hustings and see what she has to say.
She has impressed me thus far not least for wrenching Oxford West from the Conservatives last time. I do want to hear she would take the challenge to Labour and particularly how she could draw moderate Labour supporters toward the LDs.
A lot of the vote shift seemed to happen in the Ab part of the constituency which had been heading in that direction significantly at council level.
I have no recollection of seeing her being personally active in driving any particular tactical agenda. There were those at work on it but it seemed to be from Labour modereates looking for a new home.
There was zero LD canvassing in my part of Jericho and very little leafleting.
There was a massive push all around the constituency, and I know for a fact that target letters were delivered in the Jericho ward.0 -
Sure, so the illiterate imbecile simply misspelled it. As we thought.Benpointer said:
Type in forest with two 'r's into an iPhone and auto-correct capitalises it to Forrest.Anazina said:
I know autocorrect is poor technology but correcting a common word like forest to a relatively rare given name like Forrest is fairly unlikely, I'd venture.TheScreamingEagles said:
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'0 -
thats just going cold turkeyTheScreamingEagles said:
I don't think so. That 24 hours that o2 went down for, I felt like I had become Amish for the day.Alanbrooke said:
you would really have enjoyed the days when there were no mobile phonesTheScreamingEagles said:
I'm just glad when I was young and feckless mobile phones didn't let you take pictures/videos of my fecklessness.Alanbrooke said:
the variations on that are quite startlingTheScreamingEagles said:
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'
these days I put the ringer to zero and no calls after 19.00, Bliss. You can do your own stuff without people annoying you. Sleep better too.0 -
I think it's high level enough to be doable. It could be agreed in weeks (now because May has delayed - with an extension).david_herdson said:
Not without the agreement of the EU, you couldn't. Re-entry is subject to Article 49 and can't just be signed off in advance by the Council of Ministers, never mind the House of Commons.Jonathan said:
They could substitute the backstop with re-entry if a permanent deal is not agreed after X years.david_herdson said:
There won't be a Plan B: it'll be Plan A again. Nothing has changed.Philip_Thompson said:
What happens if Plan B is voted down?Richard_Nabavi said:It's important to note that the Grieve amendment is not limited to requiring the PM to make a statement in the Commons with three days, it requires the government to hold a ‘plan B’ vote within three sitting days - i.e., by Monday week. So she will have just six days to extract meaningful concessions from the EU27.
You might think that is a good thing, given the very limited time still left. It's certainly a substantive amendment.
And in reality, nothing has changed. The government cannot magic up a Norway Plus agreement from thin air. The only solutions are Deal, No Deal and Remain: the same as they always were.
That could pass HoC, satisfy the 2016 referendum and give all sides something to aim for. Alas. Will never happen.
This is the point. The Commons cannot rewrite what's in the WA. The EU won't re-open negotiations (or at least, not unless there is some new and compelling reason to do so, and without a new popular mandate of some sort, there won't be such a reason), so MPs are still stuck with the three options that have been there since the November summit.
I like it because it gives something to everyone.0 -
The rise of fundamentally undemocratic powers like Russia are a serious threat to liberty.Charles said:
Those who would trade liberty for security deserve neitherFF43 said:
In terms of dealing with unwelcome influence you are absolutely correct. Putin supports Brexit because he reckons it causes disarray and will make the West generally weaker. It should give pause to thought for those in favour of Brexit, why they are on the same side as the rogue statesman of Russia, who wishes us no good.MTimT said:Bringing up that Putin supports Brexit is idiotic in this context. The only acceptable thing to do for any Brit who has any influence over Brexit is to totally ignore what foreign actors want, including Putin, and decide their conscience on what should or should not be done.
If you want to argue against foreign influence in a matter, you don't use foreign preferences in the debate. You can bet that she would not have mentioned Putin at all if Putin's views coincided with hers.
0 -
Your interpretation of the WA may be as politically nuanced as those stating their profound hostility. Ultimately, it's all about the politics and for whatever reason May has been unable to sell her Deal to anyone.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, but there was plenty in the Leave campaigns' material, which can't simply be ignored in delivering what people thought they were voting for. It included taking back control of our borders, negotiating an orderly exit from the EU, negotiating a comprehensive trade deal with the EU, and being in a position to do trade deals elsewhere. Theresa May has done an excellent job of synthesising an incoherent and sometimes self-contradictory set of aims into the most workable and least damaging implementation possible, assuming we're going to leave the EU at all. It's unfortunate that the Brexiteers, having got exactly what they campaigned for, decided to team up with a cynical Labour Party to trash it, leaving us with chaos.
Many of those who support it do so only because they believe leaving without a Deal will be a catastrophe and therefore a bad deal is better than No Deal.
If the Deal did all you claim it does it would have more support - either people don't understand it or you see things in it other people can't.
I don't know.0 -
The government 'consessions' on the WA includes:
"Parliament would have to approve any decision to implement the backstop."
How is that a 'backstop', to be implemented if all else fails?0 -
Masturbating over Erskine May doesn't actually confer any special constitutional powers, as today demonstrated.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think it may be fair to assume that he doesn't. Despite his expensive education he is not regarded by colleagues to be the brightest ticket in parliament, hence why he has never held any serious office.Brom said:
Despite the handicap of being a Conservative it's fair to assume Rees Mogg knows more about parliamentary procedure than his colleagues on either side of the house.brendan16 said:
Maybe we should hold another vote on the Grieve amendment as its possible some MPs were not clear what they were voting for?!Benpointer said:
JRM thinks no debate is required. Who's right?Richard_Nabavi said:It's important to note that the Grieve amendment is not limited to requiring the PM to make a statement in the Commons within three days, it requires the government to hold a ‘plan B’ vote within three sitting days - i.e., by Monday week. So she will have just six days to extract meaningful concessions from the EU27.
You might think that is a good thing, given the very limited time still left. It's certainly a substantive amendment.
https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/10830115905076879360 -
Only a majority of 816
If she is sentenced for less than 12 months, I am sure there will be a successful recall petition (bear in mind the Paisley one nearly succeeded and he was only suspended for a month)FrancisUrquhart said:
All the signs are she won't be an ex-MP, she will cling on regardless.MarqueeMark said:So no by-election in South Thanet then. When do we hear about sentencing for the soon-to-be-ex-MP for Peterborough?
0 -
It's not his fault - he probably had a terrible education, few advantages, etc.Anazina said:
Sure, so the illiterate imbecile simply misspelled it. As we thought.Benpointer said:
Type in forest with two 'r's into an iPhone and auto-correct capitalises it to Forrest.Anazina said:
I know autocorrect is poor technology but correcting a common word like forest to a relatively rare given name like Forrest is fairly unlikely, I'd venture.TheScreamingEagles said:
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'0 -
or more likely because he is from a different wing of the party to Cameron and May and has only been an MP since 2010. Pretty sure he's highly regarded in parliament, Jess Phillips is in awe of the bloke (if that says anything).Nigel_Foremain said:
I think it may be fair to assume that he doesn't. Despite his expensive education he is not regarded by colleagues to be the brightest ticket in parliament, hence why he has never held any serious office.Brom said:
Despite the handicap of being a Conservative it's fair to assume Rees Mogg knows more about parliamentary procedure than his colleagues on either side of the house.brendan16 said:
Maybe we should hold another vote on the Grieve amendment as its possible some MPs were not clear what they were voting for?!Benpointer said:
JRM thinks no debate is required. Who's right?Richard_Nabavi said:It's important to note that the Grieve amendment is not limited to requiring the PM to make a statement in the Commons within three days, it requires the government to hold a ‘plan B’ vote within three sitting days - i.e., by Monday week. So she will have just six days to extract meaningful concessions from the EU27.
You might think that is a good thing, given the very limited time still left. It's certainly a substantive amendment.
https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/10830115905076879360 -
Sure, but you can't have it both ways - was she pandering too much to the ERG and not enough to Labour MPs, or vice versa?grabcocque said:
She does have a Parliamentary majority. She merely has to get her own party and her DUP partners to back the deal. She has no need of Labour support.Richard_Nabavi said:
Who are these 'others'? The SNP? The LibDems? Labour, whose position was the entirely cynical one of voting against whatever deal she came back with?
0 -
Weeks? To have a binding agreement, you'd need a treaty arranged in advance and ratified by all 27 other EU members.Jonathan said:
I think it's high level enough to be doable. It could be agreed in weeks (now because May has delayed - with an extension).david_herdson said:
Not without the agreement of the EU, you couldn't. Re-entry is subject to Article 49 and can't just be signed off in advance by the Council of Ministers, never mind the House of Commons.Jonathan said:
They could substitute the backstop with re-entry if a permanent deal is not agreed after X years.david_herdson said:
There won't be a Plan B: it'll be Plan A again. Nothing has changed.Philip_Thompson said:
What happens if Plan B is voted down?Richard_Nabavi said:It's important to note that the Grieve amendment is not limited to requiring the PM to make a statement in the Commons with three days, it requires the government to hold a ‘plan B’ vote within three sitting days - i.e., by Monday week. So she will have just six days to extract meaningful concessions from the EU27.
You might think that is a good thing, given the very limited time still left. It's certainly a substantive amendment.
And in reality, nothing has changed. The government cannot magic up a Norway Plus agreement from thin air. The only solutions are Deal, No Deal and Remain: the same as they always were.
That could pass HoC, satisfy the 2016 referendum and give all sides something to aim for. Alas. Will never happen.
This is the point. The Commons cannot rewrite what's in the WA. The EU won't re-open negotiations (or at least, not unless there is some new and compelling reason to do so, and without a new popular mandate of some sort, there won't be such a reason), so MPs are still stuck with the three options that have been there since the November summit.
I like it because it gives something to everyone.
In any case, a 're-entry rather than backstop' just gives the EU the incentive to force a failure in the Future Relationship talks and hey presto, Britain is back in the club.0 -
0
-
Zilch. Is being contactable by one's employer 100% of the time desirable?Alanbrooke said:
yes, but what was the gaffers chance of finding you once you were out of the office ?OldKingCole said:
Did mean one really looked for forward to Saturday and contact with one's other half. Even if the arrangement was only temporary.Alanbrooke said:
you would really have enjoyed the days when there were no mobile phonesTheScreamingEagles said:
I'm just glad when I was young and feckless mobile phones didn't let you take pictures/videos of my fecklessness.Alanbrooke said:
the variations on that are quite startlingTheScreamingEagles said:
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'
Actually the mobile phone mean that on-call pharmacists, if not resident in the hospital, didn't have to sit at home.
Many, many years ago, when in my mid-teens, I lived in a small town which still had a human-operated exchange. One night I answered the phone to be asked by the operator, whom I knew, if I knew where one of the local GP's was; was he, as was often the case, out on some social event with my parents? And if so where? He was needed.0 -
Well we are better off than where we are now or if the deal passes in the bespoke backstop. Because if the talks crash and there is still poltiical will in the UK to leave you quit via A50 hard Brexit, on this time with two years to fully prepare for it.david_herdson said:
Weeks? To have a binding agreement, you'd need a treaty arranged in advance and ratified by all 27 other EU members.Jonathan said:
I think it's high level enough to be doable. It could be agreed in weeks (now because May has delayed - with an extension).david_herdson said:
Not without the agreement of the EU, you couldn't. Re-entry is subject to Article 49 and can't just be signed off in advance by the Council of Ministers, never mind the House of Commons.Jonathan said:
They could substitute the backstop with re-entry if a permanent deal is not agreed after X years.david_herdson said:
There won't be a Plan B: it'll be Plan A again. Nothing has changed.Philip_Thompson said:
What happens if Plan B is voted down?Richard_Nabavi said:It's important to note that the Grieve amendment is not limited to requiring the PM to make a statement in the Commons with three days, it requires the government to hold a ‘plan B’ vote within three sitting days - i.e., by Monday week. So she will have just six days to extract meaningful concessions from the EU27.
You might think that is a good thing, given the very limited time still left. It's certainly a substantive amendment.
And in reality, nothing has changed. The government cannot magic up a Norway Plus agreement from thin air. The only solutions are Deal, No Deal and Remain: the same as they always were.
That could pass HoC, satisfy the 2016 referendum and give all sides something to aim for. Alas. Will never happen.
This is the point. The Commons cannot rewrite what's in the WA. The EU won't re-open negotiations (or at least, not unless there is some new and compelling reason to do so, and without a new popular mandate of some sort, there won't be such a reason), so MPs are still stuck with the three options that have been there since the November summit.
I like it because it gives something to everyone.
In any case, a 're-entry rather than backstop' just gives the EU the incentive to force a failure in the Future Relationship talks and hey presto, Britain is back in the club.0 -
Corbyn is a genius when it comes to brexit.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Thanks for that - I just had a highly unsavoury image of a nerdy looking middle age man in a double breasted suit with steamed up Himmler glasses asking Nanny where the Kleenex had gone - pass me the mind bleachgrabcocque said:
Masturbating over Erskine May doesn't actually confer any special constitutional powers, as today demonstrated.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think it may be fair to assume that he doesn't. Despite his expensive education he is not regarded by colleagues to be the brightest ticket in parliament, hence why he has never held any serious office.Brom said:
Despite the handicap of being a Conservative it's fair to assume Rees Mogg knows more about parliamentary procedure than his colleagues on either side of the house.brendan16 said:
Maybe we should hold another vote on the Grieve amendment as its possible some MPs were not clear what they were voting for?!Benpointer said:
JRM thinks no debate is required. Who's right?Richard_Nabavi said:It's important to note that the Grieve amendment is not limited to requiring the PM to make a statement in the Commons within three days, it requires the government to hold a ‘plan B’ vote within three sitting days - i.e., by Monday week. So she will have just six days to extract meaningful concessions from the EU27.
You might think that is a good thing, given the very limited time still left. It's certainly a substantive amendment.
https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/10830115905076879360 -
The day the Brexit died.
Bye bye, Miss American Pie0 -
And what happens if they reject no deal, a second vote and article 50 extension - as is quite possible? What happens when no option is agreed?CarlottaVance said:Mr Islam's take:
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/10830242307096739850 -
They'll suddenly decide that paying £39bn for nothing but a vassal state transition is wonderful?MarqueeMark said:
That is asking Ireland not to blink.CarlottaVance said:
And Germany, who won't allow a Hard Border under any circumstances. (So how you gonna deal with that No Deal Hard Border, Mutti? Rather suggest she is urging a rethink to prevent that very No Deal. Come on, drop the backstop you say won't be needed - and suddenly 100+ Tory MPs fall into line.....)0 -
The mechanism is by a choice between extending the transition or implementing the backstop. I thought extending the transition required the EU to assent, which this would imply not, but if the choice were solely Parliament's then it would mean that a perpetual transition could be the new backstop, which has some advantages and some disadvantages, but is unlikely to convince most of those opposed to the backstop.Benpointer said:The government 'consessions' on the WA includes:
"Parliament would have to approve any decision to implement the backstop."
How is that a 'backstop', to be implemented if all else fails?0 -
Any loss will always be called a humiliation. And in fairness the shambles the government is in can quite rightly be called humiliating I thinkCarlottaVance said:
I too thought it would be 20+, and others thought it would be even higher. I wonder if Bercows antics brought some on the government side into line....Richard_Nabavi said:
I'm surprised that the margin was that small.CarlottaVance said:The Opposition benches look fuller than the government ones.....308 in favour 297 against.....a narrow win....
While 11 is clearly a "loss" its hardly a "humiliation"....0 -
More support from whom? The LibDems don't want us to leave at all, the SNP also don't want us to leave at all but in any case are much more exercised about never supporting anything a UK government, and especially a UK Tory government, does, and the ERG don't want a deal at all. As for Labour MPs, they either want to overturn their own vote for Article 50, or they want exactly what is in the deal, but are cynically pretending the opposite.stodge said:If the Deal did all you claim it does it would have more support - either people don't understand it or you see things in it other people can't.
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It died when A50 could be unilaterally revoked. It's all over bar the shouting, but whether it's revoked in a referendum or without given deal and no deal have no path to passing now, it's over.PeterMannion said:The day the Brexit died.
Bye bye, Miss American Pie
In 2016 leave wanted it more. That is not so now, and leave does not have the unity to procedurally see it through.0 -
Im struggling to get my kids to understand that 24/7 availability is not obligatory and is only a recent innovation for stressed out control freaks.OldKingCole said:
Zilch. Is being contactable by one's employer 100% of the time desirable?Alanbrooke said:
yes, but what was the gaffers chance of finding you once you were out of the office ?OldKingCole said:
Did mean one really looked for forward to Saturday and contact with one's other half. Even if the arrangement was only temporary.Alanbrooke said:
you would really have enjoyed the days when there were no mobile phonesTheScreamingEagles said:
I'm just glad when I was young and feckless mobile phones didn't let you take pictures/videos of my fecklessness.Alanbrooke said:
the variations on that are quite startlingTheScreamingEagles said:
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses your puppy'Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
Actually the mobile phone mean that on-call pharmacists, off not resident in the hospital, didn't have to sit at home.
Many, many years ago, when in my mid-teens, I lived in a small town which still had a human-operated exchange. One night I answered the phone to be asked by the operator, whom I knew, if I knew where one of the local GP's was; was he, as was often the case, out on some social event with my parents? And if so where? He was needed.0 -
An absolute colossus on all matters. What a thick twat. When I think that 52% of the population voted for a madness known as Brexit I have to conclude that we (or they at least) have the politicians we/they deservekle4 said:
Corbyn is a genius when it comes to brexit.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Mr. kle4, not so sure about that.
Leave won a majority in the country. Remain has a majority in Parliament.0 -
Perhaps. Who will organise it? CCHQ will be checking the polling first, and the calendar.GarethoftheVale2 said:Only a majority of 816
If she is sentenced for less than 12 months, I am sure there will be a successful recall petition (bear in mind the Paisley one nearly succeeded and he was only suspended for a month)FrancisUrquhart said:
All the signs are she won't be an ex-MP, she will cling on regardless.MarqueeMark said:So no by-election in South Thanet then. When do we hear about sentencing for the soon-to-be-ex-MP for Peterborough?
0 -
Total unity was always impossible. At least a few others would have been needed. As it is hundreds are.grabcocque said:
She does have a Parliamentary majority. She merely has to get her own party and her DUP partners to back the deal. She has no need of Labour support.Richard_Nabavi said:
Who are these 'others'? The SNP? The LibDems? Labour, whose position was the entirely cynical one of voting against whatever deal she came back with?
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No, it's genius, or at least quite clever in maintaining Labour's studied ambiguity. He's not cured cancer, after all.Nigel_Foremain said:
An absolute colossus on all matters. What a thick twat. When I think that 52% of the population voted for a madness known as Brexit I have to conclude that we (or they at least) have the politicians we/they deservekle4 said:
Corbyn is a genius when it comes to brexit.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Rees Mogg may be technically right (I don't know, though I'd give him the benefit of the doubt on this one); he is politically wrong. If the govt tried such a weasel procedural response, it'd just find itself of the wrong end of a much more firmly and tightly worded motion.grabcocque said:
Masturbating over Erskine May doesn't actually confer any special constitutional powers, as today demonstrated.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think it may be fair to assume that he doesn't. Despite his expensive education he is not regarded by colleagues to be the brightest ticket in parliament, hence why he has never held any serious office.Brom said:
Despite the handicap of being a Conservative it's fair to assume Rees Mogg knows more about parliamentary procedure than his colleagues on either side of the house.brendan16 said:
Maybe we should hold another vote on the Grieve amendment as its possible some MPs were not clear what they were voting for?!Benpointer said:
JRM thinks no debate is required. Who's right?Richard_Nabavi said:It's important to note that the Grieve amendment is not limited to requiring the PM to make a statement in the Commons within three days, it requires the government to hold a ‘plan B’ vote within three sitting days - i.e., by Monday week. So she will have just six days to extract meaningful concessions from the EU27.
You might think that is a good thing, given the very limited time still left. It's certainly a substantive amendment.
https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/10830115905076879360 -
Maybe May will resign if her deal is rejected .God knows she's tried hard enough0
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(4) We all amke mistakesPhilip_Thompson said:
With a combination ofBenpointer said:
(1)Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
(3) He doesn't care enough about spelling to get it right.0 -
Labour will support it. So very likely to happen.DecrepitJohnL said:
Perhaps. Who will organise it? CCHQ will be checking the polling first, and the calendar.GarethoftheVale2 said:Only a majority of 816
If she is sentenced for less than 12 months, I am sure there will be a successful recall petition (bear in mind the Paisley one nearly succeeded and he was only suspended for a month)FrancisUrquhart said:
All the signs are she won't be an ex-MP, she will cling on regardless.MarqueeMark said:So no by-election in South Thanet then. When do we hear about sentencing for the soon-to-be-ex-MP for Peterborough?
0 -
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" MayPeterMannion said:The day the Brexit died.
Bye bye, Miss American Pie0 -
She should. But then, she should have put the deal to the vote a month ago and resigned gracefully then.Pulpstar said:Maybe May will resign if her deal is rejected .God knows she's tried hard enough
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A bit of Weird Al always brightens up one's dayMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOfZLb33uCg 0 -
I suspect that some Brexiteers are quite looking forward to us staying in and griping endlessly about betrayal without actually having to deliver anything.0
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Well exactly.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr Topping, surely the problem with the FoM argument and every other detail on Brexit is that there was no defined manifesto for Brexit, so we can only work from unreliable opinion polls as to what peoples' motivations were. Even Farage and Hannon regularly argued during the campaign in favour of Norway as an example which clearly involves FoM. Brexit means many different things to many people, depending on how extreme they are on the issue, (and others including gay marriage apparently!) . May's deal clearly delivers on the result based on the essentially wording of the question, and the fact that it is disliked by so many (including myself) probably means that it is about right.
0 -
Hardly. Just shows he doesn’t know and doesn’t care. To him, Brexit is a means to Downing St; nothing else.kle4 said:
Corbyn is a genius when it comes to brexit.TheScreamingEagles said:
Just a shame that Tories like Grieve seem to be doing their best to help him.0 -
Works both ways, of course. When I was 18 or so I told my father that, once qualified, I planned to emigrate to Australia. He became quite upset; we'll never see you again, you'll break your mothers heart. Etc, etc.Alanbrooke said:
Im struggling to get my kids to understand that 24/7 availability is not obligatory and is only a recent innovation for stressed out control freaks.OldKingCole said:
Zilch. Is being contactable by one's employer 100% of the time desirable?Alanbrooke said:
yes, but what was the gaffers chance of finding you once you were out of the office ?OldKingCole said:
Did mean one really looked for forward to Saturday and contact with one's other half. Even if the arrangement was only temporary.Alanbrooke said:
you would really have enjoyed the days when there were no mobile phonesTheScreamingEagles said:
I'm just glad when I was young and feckless mobile phones didn't let you take pictures/videos of my fecklessness.Alanbrooke said:
the variations on that are quite startlingTheScreamingEagles said:
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses your puppy'Chris said:
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling?TheScreamingEagles said:Excellent tweet from Donald Gump
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083009519503003648?s=21
(1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling.
(2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
Actually the mobile phone mean that on-call pharmacists, off not resident in the hospital, didn't have to sit at home.
Many, many years ago, when in my mid-teens, I lived in a small town which still had a human-operated exchange. One night I answered the phone to be asked by the operator, whom I knew, if I knew where one of the local GP's was; was he, as was often the case, out on some social event with my parents? And if so where? He was needed.
60 years later I have a son who, with his wife and family, lives in the Far East. We see them at least once a year for a month or so, speak with them at least once a month and get texts from the grandchildren.
Incidentally, when I told my mother of the conversation my father and I had had, some 20 years later she sniffed and said he was foolish; would have been an adventure to come out and see me!0 -
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Mentioning Trump, worth noting in passing that today is Day 19 of the shutdown. What I find surprising is the lack of urgency on all sides. I'm sure I recall in the two previous prolonged shutdowns (1995-6 and 2013), there were more-or-less continuous talks and votes at this stage.
This is only the third time since the shutdown process became a possibility (in 1976), that federal employees have been furloughed for more than a week. It does feel like both sides are settling in for a much longer timeframe. That is going to cause a lot of people a lot of hardship.0 -
Genuine question: is May's Deal a runner?
If it isn't, I think the only viable alternatives are:
1. Recognise the UK doesn't have a clue about Brexit. Exit anyway on EU terms to completely blind Brexit and worry about what happens later. We have 20 months to sort that out until the transition period comes to an end.
2. Remain.
No Deal isn't serious. I don't expect starvation but it is predicated on never at any time having an arrangement of any kind with the EU. Which is nonsense. Otherwise we are dependent on the whim of the EU for stuff that we need, who can demand what they want in return and can switch off the arrangement at any time of their choosing. It is an absurdly weak position to put ourselves into.
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The cross party talks that should have happened the day after the 2017 GE.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
Parliament is where they will obstruct it long enough for a majority in the country to agreeMorris_Dancer said:Mr. kle4, not so sure about that.
Leave won a majority in the country. Remain has a majority in Parliament.0 -
Spot on. I hope this also may be Mr Corbyn's thinkingJonathan said:I suspect that some Brexiteers are quite looking forward to us staying in and griping endlessly about betrayal without actually having to deliver anything.
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Bullcrap he has an open mind on it. But I guess he's got to say that.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
The cross party talks are between he and labour?Jonathan said:
The cross party talks that should have happened the day after the 2017 GE.AlastairMeeks said:
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Probably. Certainly the beginning of the end for parliamentary democracy as we know it. Party manifestos have clearly lost all meaning and purpose.PeterMannion said:The day the Brexit died.
Bye bye, Miss American Pie0
