Hardly. Just shows he doesn’t know and doesn’t care. To him, Brexit is a means to Downing St; nothing else.
Just a shame that Tories like Grieve seem to be doing their best to help him.
I did not mean to suggest genius meant he cared or knew much about it. But his position on it, his cynical open position, ensures remainers and leavers stay on board.
Who are these 'others'? The SNP? The LibDems? Labour, whose position was the entirely cynical one of voting against whatever deal she came back with?
She does have a Parliamentary majority. She merely has to get her own party and her DUP partners to back the deal. She has no need of Labour support.
Sure, but you can't have it both ways - was she pandering too much to the ERG and not enough to Labour MPs, or vice versa?
It would certainly have been interesting had, after the vote, she signalled to Labour that she was going to erect a big tent and they were invited (as would have been the SNP, LDs, ERG and, whisper it, maybe even UKIP).
Now of course all that lot held and hold supposedly diametrically opposing views but it is amazing what being given a shot at power does to the ability to compromise (cf. Lib Dems).
Even a cross-party commission or something would have been ok.
If it isn't, I think the only viable alternatives are:
1. Recognise the UK doesn't have a clue about Brexit. Exit anyway on EU terms to completely blind Brexit and worry about what happens later. We have 20 months to sort that out until the transition period comes to an end.
2. Remain.
No Deal isn't serious. I don't expect starvation but it is predicated on never at any time having an arrangement of any kind with the EU. Which is nonsense. Otherwise we are dependent on the whim of the EU for stuff that we need, who can demand what they want in return and can switch off the arrangement at any time of their choosing. It is an absurdly weak position to put ourselves into.
Mentioning Trump, worth noting in passing that today is Day 19 of the shutdown. What I find surprising is the lack of urgency on all sides. I'm sure I recall in the two previous prolonged shutdowns (1995-6 and 2013), there were more-or-less continuous talks and votes at this stage.
This is only the third time since the shutdown process became a possibility (in 1976), that federal employees have been furloughed for more than a week. It does feel like both sides are settling in for a much longer timeframe. That is going to cause a lot of people a lot of hardship.
Feel very sorry for guys at the sharp end. Of course Trump's under the impression they all think it's worth it!
I suspect that some Brexiteers are quite looking forward to us staying in and griping endlessly about betrayal without actually having to deliver anything.
Whereas Remain MPs can simply continue to get paid for doing nothing but what Brussels tells them
I suspect that some Brexiteers are quite looking forward to us staying in and griping endlessly about betrayal without actually having to deliver anything.
Please can we leave to avoid that, if for no other reason.
Who are these 'others'? The SNP? The LibDems? Labour, whose position was the entirely cynical one of voting against whatever deal she came back with?
She does have a Parliamentary majority. She merely has to get her own party and her DUP partners to back the deal. She has no need of Labour support.
Sure, but you can't have it both ways - was she pandering too much to the ERG and not enough to Labour MPs, or vice versa?
It would certainly have been interesting had, after the vote, she signalled to Labour that she was going to erect a big tent and they were invited (as would have been the SNP, LDs, ERG and, whisper it, maybe even UKIP).
Now of course all that lot held and hold supposedly diametrically opposing views but it is amazing what being given a shot at power does to the ability to compromise (cf. Lib Dems).
Even a cross-party commission or something would have been ok.
It would certainly have been possible to have erected a broader tent than pandering to the ERG using extreme rhetoric about citizens of nowhere, raising their hopes to unrealistic levels and completely alienating unbelievers in Brexit.
If it isn't, I think the only viable alternatives are:
1. Recognise the UK doesn't have a clue about Brexit. Exit anyway on EU terms to completely blind Brexit and worry about what happens later. We have 20 months to sort that out until the transition period comes to an end.
2. Remain.
No Deal isn't serious. I don't expect starvation but it is predicated on never at any time having an arrangement of any kind with the EU. Which is nonsense. Otherwise we are dependent on the whim of the EU for stuff that we need, who can demand what they want in return and can switch off the arrangement at any time of their choosing. It is an absurdly weak position to put ourselves into.
That is an idiotic definition of No Deal. All 'No Deal' means is not this deal. If the EU came along with a deal that satisfied the ERG lot (I am not saying the would or should) or if they came along with individual deals in specific areas to try and mitigate the issues on a case by case basis for each side then I don't think there is a single person in Parliament who would refuse to do those deals.
If it isn't, I think the only viable alternatives are:
1. Recognise the UK doesn't have a clue about Brexit. Exit anyway on EU terms to completely blind Brexit and worry about what happens later. We have 20 months to sort that out until the transition period comes to an end.
2. Remain.
No Deal isn't serious. I don't expect starvation but it is predicated on never at any time having an arrangement of any kind with the EU. Which is nonsense. Otherwise we are dependent on the whim of the EU for stuff that we need, who can demand what they want in return and can switch off the arrangement at any time of their choosing. It is an absurdly weak position to put ourselves into.
Er... we cannot do 1. if May's Deal is rejected.
It would leave open the possibility of EEA type arrangements, or even May's deal later. The point is, we wouldn't decide anything except the fact of leaving.
Maybe May will resign if her deal is rejected .God knows she's tried hard enough
She should. But then, she should have put the deal to the vote a month ago and resigned gracefully then.
To resign now (or then) would have been to potentially clog up much of the remaining time with a Tory leadership election and virtually paralyse the government. That, no doubt, was a large part of the thinking in Con MP's minds in keepting her in post.
If there was a time for her to have gone, it was either after the election or last summer, after Chequers.
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling? (1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling. (2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'
the variations on that are quite startling
I'm just glad when I was young and feckless mobile phones didn't let you take pictures/videos of my fecklessness.
you would really have enjoyed the days when there were no mobile phones
I don't think so. That 24 hours that o2 went down for, I felt like I had become Amish for the day.
thats just going cold turkey
these days I put the ringer to zero and no calls after 19.00, Bliss. You can do your own stuff without people annoying you. Sleep better too.
There's a programme about twins coming up, where they did tests and proved that just having a mobile phone on significantly reduces your IQ......
Which might just explain all those enraptured by Apple products.
I suspect that some Brexiteers are quite looking forward to us staying in and griping endlessly about betrayal without actually having to deliver anything.
Whereas Remain MPs can simply continue to get paid for doing nothing but what Brussels tells them
If you're going to play that stupid game, then leave MPs are willing to bend over backwards and take it from Putin.
If given a choice between the EU and Putin I'd take the Eu every time. Although at least one Brexiteer on here chooses Putin ...
If it isn't, I think the only viable alternatives are:
1. Recognise the UK doesn't have a clue about Brexit. Exit anyway on EU terms to completely blind Brexit and worry about what happens later. We have 20 months to sort that out until the transition period comes to an end.
2. Remain.
No Deal isn't serious. I don't expect starvation but it is predicated on never at any time having an arrangement of any kind with the EU. Which is nonsense. Otherwise we are dependent on the whim of the EU for stuff that we need, who can demand what they want in return and can switch off the arrangement at any time of their choosing. It is an absurdly weak position to put ourselves into.
That is an idiotic definition of No Deal. All 'No Deal' means is not this deal. If the EU came along with a deal that satisfied the ERG lot (I am not saying the would or should) or if they came along with individual deals in specific areas to try and mitigate the issues on a case by case basis for each side then I don't think there is a single person in Parliament who would refuse to do those deals.
Your definition is utterly nonsensical.
And yet how many Brexiters have told us that we should have "No Deal" as an option if there were to be a referendum.
Plus I don't think an EU deal has been devised, not even if it promised free fox red labradors for all, that the ERG would accept.
If it isn't, I think the only viable alternatives are:
1. Recognise the UK doesn't have a clue about Brexit. Exit anyway on EU terms to completely blind Brexit and worry about what happens later. We have 20 months to sort that out until the transition period comes to an end.
2. Remain.
No Deal isn't serious. I don't expect starvation but it is predicated on never at any time having an arrangement of any kind with the EU. Which is nonsense. Otherwise we are dependent on the whim of the EU for stuff that we need, who can demand what they want in return and can switch off the arrangement at any time of their choosing. It is an absurdly weak position to put ourselves into.
That is an idiotic definition of No Deal. All 'No Deal' means is not this deal. If the EU came along with a deal that satisfied the ERG lot (I am not saying the would or should) or if they came along with individual deals in specific areas to try and mitigate the issues on a case by case basis for each side then I don't think there is a single person in Parliament who would refuse to do those deals.
Your definition is utterly nonsensical.
The EU isn't going to offer an alternative deal; they have said that from the start, and have been frustrated at the UK's inability to articulate what it wanted. And the potential alternatives such as permanent CU and/or EEA are less acceptable to the ERG than May's deal, anyway. No deal means leaving without any of these agreements to smooth our path, and it is ridiculous to try and suggest that it simply means anything other than May's WA.
I wonder. But, yes, food for thought. With apologies to Swiss Tony, could it be that Brexit is just like making love to a beautiful woman? ... not going to happen.
I suspect that some Brexiteers are quite looking forward to us staying in and griping endlessly about betrayal without actually having to deliver anything.
Please can we leave to avoid that, if for no other reason.
But whatever is delivered in the real world will never be enough anyway, and they will continue to gripe, probably about betrayal. The only thing that would satisfy them is the EU disappearing altogether. Which was always extremely unlikely and thanks to the Brexiters now looks even more so.
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Not really. The sadness is that it will probably only die when it is seen and found to be the poison it is.
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Beautiful, Richard, and don't forget the unicorns. :-)
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
I suspect that some Brexiteers are quite looking forward to us staying in and griping endlessly about betrayal without actually having to deliver anything.
Please can we leave to avoid that, if for no other reason.
If we remain - welcome to the next 20 years and 4 general elections.
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling? (1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling. (2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'
the variations on that are quite startling
I'm just glad when I was young and feckless mobile phones didn't let you take pictures/videos of my fecklessness.
you would really have enjoyed the days when there were no mobile phones
I don't think so. That 24 hours that o2 went down for, I felt like I had become Amish for the day.
thats just going cold turkey
these days I put the ringer to zero and no calls after 19.00, Bliss. You can do your own stuff without people annoying you. Sleep better too.
There's a programme about twins coming up, where they did tests and proved that just having a mobile phone on significantly reduces your IQ......
Which might just explain all those enraptured by Apple products.
Is that about the damage mobile phones allegedly do to your brain?
I suspect that some Brexiteers are quite looking forward to us staying in and griping endlessly about betrayal without actually having to deliver anything.
Indeed so. The boundless whinefest is like a never-ending wet dream for those of a europhobic persuasion.
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Not really. The sadness is that it will probably only die when it is seen and found to be the poison it is.
Like I said, your metaphors reflect the inner bleakness of your soul which darkens the way you see the whole world. I do honestly pity you unreconciled Remainers.
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Beautiful, Richard, and don't forget the unicorns. :-)
Mentioning Trump, worth noting in passing that today is Day 19 of the shutdown. What I find surprising is the lack of urgency on all sides. I'm sure I recall in the two previous prolonged shutdowns (1995-6 and 2013), there were more-or-less continuous talks and votes at this stage.
This is only the third time since the shutdown process became a possibility (in 1976), that federal employees have been furloughed for more than a week. It does feel like both sides are settling in for a much longer timeframe. That is going to cause a lot of people a lot of hardship.
It is disgraceful that federal employees don't get paid while this politicking goes on above their heads. It is the act of a banana republic. Suspend government if you must, but know your duty to your employees.
Well let's take the most contentious issue - freedom of movement. Some huge percentage (~50%) of Leave voters cited it as being the most important issue. That makes (0.5 x 17.4)/(16.1 + 17.4) = 26% of voters cared about it. And yet it drove almost her entire approach.
Why even our very own @Richard_Tyndall would have been happy with continued FoM. Don't even get me started on the single market and customs union.
She instituted red lines before she had thought it through. It was designed to appeal to her hard Brexit wing as she knew (and of course she was right) that they would cause trouble and in any case, she was set on a hard Brexit herself.
No mitigation for this, Richard - she owns it.
You are assuming that anyone who didn't vote Leave and who didn't put FoM down as the most important issue wasn't fussed about FoM. That's plainly wrong. Many people who voted Leave who wouldn't have put it first would nonetheless have put it as important, and many people who voted Remain did so despite not wanting FoM to continue unchanged.
A form of Brexit which left FoM untouched would be a complete travesty.
Brexit means Brexit, ie. leaving the EU. There was nothing on the ballot paper about what form Brexit should take.
No, but there was plenty in the Leave campaigns' material, which can't simply be ignored in delivering what people thought they were voting for. It included taking back control of our borders, negotiating an orderly exit from the EU, negotiating a comprehensive trade deal with the EU, and being in a position to do trade deals elsewhere.
On that basis, the absence of £350m a week more funding for the NHS is a good reason to vote against Theresa May's Brexit deal. Or any Brexit proposal.
Well, that was always impossible, so hardly counts one way or the other.
But if impossible goals don't count, doesn't a lot of the other stuff disappear as well? Especially if taken in combination. Free trade without freedom of movement?
What the heck is Starmer on about. We want a customs union but not the customs union a super duper labour customs union. We want a single market but not the single market a special single market.
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Not really. The sadness is that it will probably only die when it is seen and found to be the poison it is.
Like I said, your metaphors reflect the inner bleakness of your soul which darkens the way you see the whole world. I do honestly pity you unreconciled Remainers.
I'm more optimistic than Ian. The Brexit cancer is responding well to the treatment being applied by Dr May and the patient should be in partial remission before too long.
What the heck is Starmer on about. We want a customs union but not the customs union a super duper labour customs union. We want a single market but not the single market a special single market.
It is just massive cakeism.
He's pretending leave is possible as long as they can so the switch to remain looks reluctant.
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Not really. The sadness is that it will probably only die when it is seen and found to be the poison it is.
Like I said, your metaphors reflect the inner bleakness of your soul which darkens the way you see the whole world. I do honestly pity you unreconciled Remainers.
The United States of Europe. Political capital: Brussels. Financial capital: London. Manufacturing power house: Munich. People coming and going East, West, North and South.
Don't forget the lack of momentum for Leave. Nothing has gone their way since the took over the government in July 2016. The polling has moved against them, the House of Commons became notionally even more Remain in 2017. Most of the claims of the Leave campaign have bern dynamited by reality and Brexiters themselves have split on the way forward. You need to see Brexit as a rocket that has still being going up for 2 + years but never achieved escape velocity. That's a key reason May's vassalage deal is so dreadful. Anything more internally coherent and clear would be even less popular.
This is of course entirely Brexiters fault. They've never ever acted like they were nursing a tiny 3.8% majority and facing a 2.5 year marathon between the referendum result and any Brexit day which was fraught with peril. It's a mixture of imperial overstretch pushing a very narrow win far too far and the crypto facistic " will of the people " stuff. The belief that one single marginal election result entitles them to the single biggest political change in post War history with no follow up work. They've acted like a screaming toddler demanding sweets at the checkout since 2016 and just haven't done the work.
Maybe May will resign if her deal is rejected .God knows she's tried hard enough
She should. But then, she should have put the deal to the vote a month ago and resigned gracefully then.
To resign now (or then) would have been to potentially clog up much of the remaining time with a Tory leadership election and virtually paralyse the government.
In fairness, a 'virtually paralysed government' is almost indistinguishable from what we have now.
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Not really. The sadness is that it will probably only die when it is seen and found to be the poison it is.
Like I said, your metaphors reflect the inner bleakness of your soul which darkens the way you see the whole world. I do honestly pity you unreconciled Remainers.
I'm more optimistic than Ian. The Brexit cancer is responding well to the treatment being applied by Dr May and the patient should be in partial remission before too long.
Ah, another one who looks at flowers and sees nothing but weeds.
What the heck is Starmer on about. We want a customs union but not the customs union a super duper labour customs union. We want a single market but not the single market a special single market.
It is just massive cakeism.
he really is deluded in a Tont Blair negotiating with Europe fashion
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Not really. The sadness is that it will probably only die when it is seen and found to be the poison it is.
Like I said, your metaphors reflect the inner bleakness of your soul which darkens the way you see the whole world. I do honestly pity you unreconciled Remainers.
The United States of Europe. Political capital: Brussels. Financial capital: London. Manufacturing power house: Munich. People coming and going East, West, North and South.
It would once again place (geographic) Western Europe at the centre of the Western world.
Don't forget the lack of momentum for Leave. Nothing has gone their way since the took over the government in July 2016. The polling has moved against them, the House of Commons became notionally even more Remain in 2017. Most of the claims of the Leave campaign have bern dynamited by reality and Brexiters themselves have split on the way forward. You need to see Brexit as a rocket that has still being going up for 2 + years but never achieved escape velocity. That's a key reason May's vassalage deal is so dreadful. Anything more internally coherent and clear would be even less popular.
This is of course entirely Brexiters fault. They've never ever acted like they were nursing a tiny 3.8% majority and facing a 2.5 year marathon between the referendum result and any Brexit day which was fraught with peril. It's a mixture of imperial overstretch pushing a very narrow win far too far and the crypto facistic " will of the people " stuff. The belief that one single marginal election result entitles them to the single biggest political change in post War history with no follow up work. They've acted like a screaming toddler demanding sweets at the checkout since 2016 and just haven't done the work.
You have to conclude that ultimately they didn't care enough about Brexit to work for it. Which makes you wonder what it is that they really want.
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Not really. The sadness is that it will probably only die when it is seen and found to be the poison it is.
Like I said, your metaphors reflect the inner bleakness of your soul which darkens the way you see the whole world. I do honestly pity you unreconciled Remainers.
The United States of Europe. Political capital: Brussels. Financial capital: London. Manufacturing power house: Munich. People coming and going East, West, North and South.
nah the capital should be further East - Prague or Vienna
What the heck is Starmer on about. We want a customs union but not the customs union a super duper labour customs union. We want a single market but not the single market a special single market.
It is just massive cakeism.
The choices on offer are cake, more cake and the Emperor's new cake.
What the heck is Starmer on about. We want a customs union but not the customs union a super duper labour customs union. We want a single market but not the single market a special single market.
It is just massive cakeism.
he really is deluded in a Tont Blair negotiating with Europe fashion
I don't think Starmer is deluded, he's just not very good at lying.
I suspect that some Brexiteers are quite looking forward to us staying in and griping endlessly about betrayal without actually having to deliver anything.
Whereas Remain MPs can simply continue to get paid for doing nothing but what Brussels tells them
If you're going to play that stupid game, then leave MPs are willing to bend over backwards and take it from Putin.
If given a choice between the EU and Putin I'd take the Eu every time. Although at least one Brexiteer on here chooses Putin ...
Stupid comment. Putin might be keen to see the break up of the EU or even Britain leave it but no more so than Trump. Proving involvement is rather more difficult.
Not too many Brexit supporters welcomed Putins’s aggression in Ukraine or welcomed his sanctioning Novichok in Salisbury. To pretend we are all Putin supporters is facile.
Parliament doing simply the EU’s bidding on the other hand has a long and undistinguished factual base.
Don't forget the lack of momentum for Leave. Nothing has gone their way since the took over the government in July 2016. The polling has moved against them, the House of Commons became notionally even more Remain in 2017. Most of the claims of the Leave campaign have bern dynamited by reality and Brexiters themselves have split on the way forward. You need to see Brexit as a rocket that has still being going up for 2 + years but never achieved escape velocity. That's a key reason May's vassalage deal is so dreadful. Anything more internally coherent and clear would be even less popular.
This is of course entirely Brexiters fault. They've never ever acted like they were nursing a tiny 3.8% majority and facing a 2.5 year marathon between the referendum result and any Brexit day which was fraught with peril. It's a mixture of imperial overstretch pushing a very narrow win far too far and the crypto facistic " will of the people " stuff. The belief that one single marginal election result entitles them to the single biggest political change in post War history with no follow up work. They've acted like a screaming toddler demanding sweets at the checkout since 2016 and just haven't done the work.
I like the analogy of Brexit as a rocket that doesn’t achieve escape velocity. Remainers need to remember that if it returns to Earth, there will be an enormous explosion.
Don't forget the lack of momentum for Leave. Nothing has gone their way since the took over the government in July 2016. The polling has moved against them, the House of Commons became notionally even more Remain in 2017. Most of the claims of the Leave campaign have bern dynamited by reality and Brexiters themselves have split on the way forward. You need to see Brexit as a rocket that has still being going up for 2 + years but never achieved escape velocity. That's a key reason May's vassalage deal is so dreadful. Anything more internally coherent and clear would be even less popular.
This is of course entirely Brexiters fault. They've never ever acted like they were nursing a tiny 3.8% majority and facing a 2.5 year marathon between the referendum result and any Brexit day which was fraught with peril. It's a mixture of imperial overstretch pushing a very narrow win far too far and the crypto facistic " will of the people " stuff. The belief that one single marginal election result entitles them to the single biggest political change in post War history with no follow up work. They've acted like a screaming toddler demanding sweets at the checkout since 2016 and just haven't done the work.
You have to conclude that ultimately they didn't care enough about Brexit to work for it. Which makes you wonder what it is that they really want.
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Not really. The sadness is that it will probably only die when it is seen and found to be the poison it is.
Like I said, your metaphors reflect the inner bleakness of your soul which darkens the way you see the whole world. I do honestly pity you unreconciled Remainers.
The United States of Europe. Political capital: Brussels. Financial capital: London. Manufacturing power house: Munich. People coming and going East, West, North and South.
nah the capital should be further East - Prague or Vienna
Lot to be said for either. Vienna probably first out of those two. It's been a capital looking for a country since 1918.
Don't forget the lack of momentum for Leave. Nothing has gone their way since the took over the government in July 2016. The polling has moved against them, the House of Commons became notionally even more Remain in 2017. Most of the claims of the Leave campaign have bern dynamited by reality and Brexiters themselves have split on the way forward. You need to see Brexit as a rocket that has still being going up for 2 + years but never achieved escape velocity. That's a key reason May's vassalage deal is so dreadful. Anything more internally coherent and clear would be even less popular.
This is of course entirely Brexiters fault. They've never ever acted like they were nursing a tiny 3.8% majority and facing a 2.5 year marathon between the referendum result and any Brexit day which was fraught with peril. It's a mixture of imperial overstretch pushing a very narrow win far too far and the crypto facistic " will of the people " stuff. The belief that one single marginal election result entitles them to the single biggest political change in post War history with no follow up work. They've acted like a screaming toddler demanding sweets at the checkout since 2016 and just haven't done the work.
Leave took over government in 2016? I must have missed that one.
If Laura K spent nearly as much time getting serious background briefings from reliable official sources as she did tweeting dismal gags and platitudes, we'd be infinitely better informed as a nation.
The Opposition benches look fuller than the government ones.....308 in favour 297 against.....a narrow win....
I'm surprised that the margin was that small.
I too thought it would be 20+, and others thought it would be even higher. I wonder if Bercows antics brought some on the government side into line....
While 11 is clearly a "loss" its hardly a "humiliation"....
Any loss will always be called a humiliation. And in fairness the shambles the government is in can quite rightly be called humiliating I think
Spot on.
The pisspoor attempts to deflect by the true believers are utterly risible.
What the heck is Starmer on about. We want a customs union but not the customs union a super duper labour customs union. We want a single market but not the single market a special single market.
It is just massive cakeism.
he really is deluded in a Tont Blair negotiating with Europe fashion
I don't think Starmer is deluded, he's just not very good at lying.
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Not really. The sadness is that it will probably only die when it is seen and found to be the poison it is.
Like I said, your metaphors reflect the inner bleakness of your soul which darkens the way you see the whole world. I do honestly pity you unreconciled Remainers.
The United States of Europe. Political capital: Brussels. Financial capital: London. Manufacturing power house: Munich. People coming and going East, West, North and South.
A genuine nightmare that would shortly collapse into rebellion and civil war.
Don't forget the lack of momentum for Leave. Nothing has gone their way since the took over the government in July 2016. The polling has moved against them, the House of Commons became notionally even more Remain in 2017. Most of the claims of the Leave campaign have bern dynamited by reality and Brexiters themselves have split on the way forward. You need to see Brexit as a rocket that has still being going up for 2 + years but never achieved escape velocity. That's a key reason May's vassalage deal is so dreadful. Anything more internally coherent and clear would be even less popular.
This is of course entirely Brexiters fault. They've never ever acted like they were nursing a tiny 3.8% majority and facing a 2.5 year marathon between the referendum result and any Brexit day which was fraught with peril. It's a mixture of imperial overstretch pushing a very narrow win far too far and the crypto facistic " will of the people " stuff. The belief that one single marginal election result entitles them to the single biggest political change in post War history with no follow up work. They've acted like a screaming toddler demanding sweets at the checkout since 2016 and just haven't done the work.
You have to conclude that ultimately they didn't care enough about Brexit to work for it. Which makes you wonder what it is that they really want.
Don't forget the lack of momentum for Leave. Nothing has gone their way since the took over the government in July 2016. The polling has moved against them, the House of Commons became notionally even more Remain in 2017. Most of the claims of the Leave campaign have bern dynamited by reality and Brexiters themselves have split on the way forward. You need to see Brexit as a rocket that has still being going up for 2 + years but never achieved escape velocity. That's a key reason May's vassalage deal is so dreadful. Anything more internally coherent and clear would be even less popular.
You have to conclude that ultimately they didn't care enough about Brexit to work for it. Which makes you wonder what it is that they really want.
The Conservative MPs made a enormous mistake letting a Remainer become PM in 2016.
The party will pay for that perhaps fatally if Brexit is postponed or cancelled.
The Con remainers simply have no answer as to what happens next.
Don't forget the lack of momentum for Leave. Nothing has gone their way since the took over the government in July 2016. The polling has moved against them, the House of Commons became notionally even more Remain in 2017. Most of the claims of the Leave campaign have bern dynamited by reality and Brexiters themselves have split on the way forward. You need to see Brexit as a rocket that has still being going up for 2 + years but never achieved escape velocity. That's a key reason May's vassalage deal is so dreadful. Anything more internally coherent and clear would be even less popular.
This is of course entirely Brexiters fault. They've never ever acted like they were nursing a tiny 3.8% majority and facing a 2.5 year marathon between the referendum result and any Brexit day which was fraught with peril. It's a mixture of imperial overstretch pushing a very narrow win far too far and the crypto facistic " will of the people " stuff. The belief that one single marginal election result entitles them to the single biggest political change in post War history with no follow up work. They've acted like a screaming toddler demanding sweets at the checkout since 2016 and just haven't done the work.
You have to conclude that ultimately they didn't care enough about Brexit to work for it. Which makes you wonder what it is that they really want.
To whine endlessly and blame all of life's ills on Europe, just as they ever did?
Don't forget the lack of momentum for Leave. Nothing has gone their way since the took over the government in July 2016. The polling has moved against them, the House of Commons became notionally even more Remain in 2017. Most of the claims of the Leave campaign have bern dynamited by reality and Brexiters themselves have split on the way forward. You need to see Brexit as a rocket that has still being going up for 2 + years but never achieved escape velocity. That's a key reason May's vassalage deal is so dreadful. Anything more internally coherent and clear would be even less popular.
This is of course entirely Brexiters fault. They've never ever acted like they were nursing a tiny 3.8% majority and facing a 2.5 year marathon between the referendum result and any Brexit day which was fraught with peril. It's a mixture of imperial overstretch pushing a very narrow win far too far and the crypto facistic " will of the people " stuff. The belief that one single marginal election result entitles them to the single biggest political change in post War history with no follow up work. They've acted like a screaming toddler demanding sweets at the checkout since 2016 and just haven't done the work.
Leave took over government in 2016? I must have missed that one.
And then managed to lose the CON majority in June 2017
I suspect that some Brexiteers are quite looking forward to us staying in and griping endlessly about betrayal without actually having to deliver anything.
Whereas Remain MPs can simply continue to get paid for doing nothing but what Brussels tells them
If you're going to play that stupid game, then leave MPs are willing to bend over backwards and take it from Putin.
If given a choice between the EU and Putin I'd take the Eu every time. Although at least one Brexiteer on here chooses Putin ...
Stupid comment. Putin might be keen to see the break up of the EU or even Britain leave it but no more so Trump. Proving involvement is rather more difficult.
Not too many Brexit supporters welcomed Putins’s aggression in Ukraine or welcomed his sanctioning Novichok in Salisbury. To pretend we are all Putin supporters is facile.
Parliament doing simply the EU’s bidding on the other hand has a long and undistinguished factual base.
Many Brexit supporters have said they'd see harm caused to Britain in order to get their wet-dream of being outside the EU. That harm means real people's jobs, incomes and lives.
That's your side. As I said above, one Brexiteer on here even said he'd prefer Putin.
It's hard to point to any first rate political leader in the West.
Vladimir Putin.
Though obviously he should be in the East :-)
Putin has squandered the fruits of the 2000s commodity boom. His country is losing its position in defence technology, and there is a huge brain drain to Europe. He has returned Crimea to Russia at a cost of hundreds of billions of dollars and the permanent alienation of Ukraine.
The best future for Russia is integration with the West to avoid becoming China’s fuel tank. Putin’s rule has made that almost impossible.
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Not really. The sadness is that it will probably only die when it is seen and found to be the poison it is.
Like I said, your metaphors reflect the inner bleakness of your soul which darkens the way you see the whole world. I do honestly pity you unreconciled Remainers.
The United States of Europe. Political capital: Brussels. Financial capital: London. Manufacturing power house: Munich. People coming and going East, West, North and South.
nah the capital should be further East - Prague or Vienna
Just have London as capital of everything. It is by far the greatest city in the world.
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Not really. The sadness is that it will probably only die when it is seen and found to be the poison it is.
Like I said, your metaphors reflect the inner bleakness of your soul which darkens the way you see the whole world. I do honestly pity you unreconciled Remainers.
The United States of Europe. Political capital: Brussels. Financial capital: London. Manufacturing power house: Munich. People coming and going East, West, North and South.
nah the capital should be further East - Prague or Vienna
Just have London as capital of everything. It is by far the greatest city in the world.
It's hard to point to any first rate political leader in the West.
Vladimir Putin.
Though obviously he should be in the East :-)
Putin has squandered the fruits of the 2000s commodity boom. His country is losing its position in defence technology, and there is a huge brain drain to Europe. He has returned Crimea to Russia at a cost of hundreds of billions of dollars and the permanent alienation of Ukraine.
The best future for Russia is integration with the West to avoid becoming China’s fuel tank. Putin’s rule has made that almost impossible.
Don't forget the lack of momentum for Leave. Nothing has gone their way since the took over the government in July 2016. The polling has moved against them, the House of Commons became notionally even more Remain in 2017. Most of the claims of the Leave campaign have bern dynamited by reality and Brexiters themselves have split on the way forward. You need to see Brexit as a rocket that has still being going up for 2 + years but never achieved escape velocity. That's a key reason May's vassalage deal is so dreadful. Anything more internally coherent and clear would be even less popular.
This is of course entirely Brexiters fault. They've never ever acted like they were nursing a tiny 3.8% majority and facing a 2.5 year marathon between the referendum result and any Brexit day which was fraught with peril. It's a mixture of imperial overstretch pushing a very narrow win far too far and the crypto facistic " will of the people " stuff. The belief that one single marginal election result entitles them to the single biggest political change in post War history with no follow up work. They've acted like a screaming toddler demanding sweets at the checkout since 2016 and just haven't done the work.
You have to conclude that ultimately they didn't care enough about Brexit to work for it. Which makes you wonder what it is that they really want.
This is beginning to sound like a post-mortem.
For some reason, it does feel as though the soul of Brexit is departing.
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Not really. The sadness is that it will probably only die when it is seen and found to be the poison it is.
Like I said, your metaphors reflect the inner bleakness of your soul which darkens the way you see the whole world. I do honestly pity you unreconciled Remainers.
The United States of Europe. Political capital: Brussels. Financial capital: London. Manufacturing power house: Munich. People coming and going East, West, North and South.
nah the capital should be further East - Prague or Vienna
Just have London as capital of everything. It is by far the greatest city in the world.
Id sooner have Newry
I once went out with a girl from Newry, In courting I asked her if she had seen a recent film, she said "No the cinema was bombed." I was a lot more circumspect in my conversation after that.
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Not really. The sadness is that it will probably only die when it is seen and found to be the poison it is.
Like I said, your metaphors reflect the inner bleakness of your soul which darkens the way you see the whole world. I do honestly pity you unreconciled Remainers.
The United States of Europe. Political capital: Brussels. Financial capital: London. Manufacturing power house: Munich. People coming and going East, West, North and South.
A genuine nightmare that would shortly collapse into rebellion and civil war.
Only as a result of action by petty nationalist xenophobes.
Sorry to mention betting, but Betfair's implied probabilities as to the date of Brexit are: Jan-Mar 2019: 34% Apr-Dec 2019: 28%
Do people think that's right? That even conditional on the Brexit timetable being extended, there would still be a 42% probability of leaving by the end of the year?
Maybe May will resign if her deal is rejected .God knows she's tried hard enough
She should. But then, she should have put the deal to the vote a month ago and resigned gracefully then.
To resign now (or then) would have been to potentially clog up much of the remaining time with a Tory leadership election and virtually paralyse the government.
In fairness, a 'virtually paralysed government' is almost indistinguishable from what we have now.
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Not really. The sadness is that it will probably only die when it is seen and found to be the poison it is.
Like I said, your metaphors reflect the inner bleakness of your soul which darkens the way you see the whole world. I do honestly pity you unreconciled Remainers.
The United States of Europe. Political capital: Brussels. Financial capital: London. Manufacturing power house: Munich. People coming and going East, West, North and South.
A genuine nightmare that would shortly collapse into rebellion and civil war.
Only as a result of action by petty nationalist xenophobes.
I thought self-determination was a big thing these days?
It's hard to point to any first rate political leader in the West.
Vladimir Putin.
Though obviously he should be in the East :-)
Putin has squandered the fruits of the 2000s commodity boom. His country is losing its position in defence technology, and there is a huge brain drain to Europe. He has returned Crimea to Russia at a cost of hundreds of billions of dollars and the permanent alienation of Ukraine.
The best future for Russia is integration with the West to avoid becoming China’s fuel tank. Putin’s rule has made that almost impossible.
It's hard to point to any first rate political leader in the West.
Vladimir Putin.
Though obviously he should be in the East :-)
Putin has squandered the fruits of the 2000s commodity boom. His country is losing its position in defence technology, and there is a huge brain drain to Europe. He has returned Crimea to Russia at a cost of hundreds of billions of dollars and the permanent alienation of Ukraine.
The best future for Russia is integration with the West to avoid becoming China’s fuel tank. Putin’s rule has made that almost impossible.
On the other hand the brain drain means that Russia has never been more socially integrated with the West. Russia is just a Suez crisis away from reorientation.
Don't forget the lack of momentum for Leave. Nothing has gone their way since the took over the government in July 2016. The polling has moved against them, the House of Commons became notionally even more Remain in 2017. Most of the claims of the Leave campaign have bern dynamited by reality and Brexiters themselves have split on the way forward. You need to see Brexit as a rocket that has still being going up for 2 + years but never achieved escape velocity. That's a key reason May's vassalage deal is so dreadful. Anything more internally coherent and clear would be even less popular.
This is of course entirely Brexiters fault. They've never ever acted like they were nursing a tiny 3.8% majority and facing a 2.5 year marathon between the referendum result and any Brexit day which was fraught with peril. It's a mixture of imperial overstretch pushing a very narrow win far too far and the crypto facistic " will of the people " stuff. The belief that one single marginal election result entitles them to the single biggest political change in post War history with no follow up work. They've acted like a screaming toddler demanding sweets at the checkout since 2016 and just haven't done the work.
You have to conclude that ultimately they didn't care enough about Brexit to work for it. Which makes you wonder what it is that they really want.
Don't forget the lack of momentum for Leave. Nothing has gone their way since the took over the government in July 2016. The polling has moved against them, the House of Commons became notionally even more Remain in 2017. Most of the claims of the Leave campaign have bern dynamited by reality and Brexiters themselves have split on the way forward. You need to see Brexit as a rocket that has still being going up for 2 + years but never achieved escape velocity. That's a key reason May's vassalage deal is so dreadful. Anything more internally coherent and clear would be even less popular.
You have to conclude that ultimately they didn't care enough about Brexit to work for it. Which makes you wonder what it is that they really want.
The Conservative MPs made a enormous mistake letting a Remainer become PM in 2016.
The party will pay for that perhaps fatally if Brexit is postponed or cancelled.
The Con remainers simply have no answer as to what happens next.
Should have gone for Gove over Leadsom in the final round of MP voting.
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Not really. The sadness is that it will probably only die when it is seen and found to be the poison it is.
Like I said, your metaphors reflect the inner bleakness of your soul which darkens the way you see the whole world. I do honestly pity you unreconciled Remainers.
The United States of Europe. Political capital: Brussels. Financial capital: London. Manufacturing power house: Munich. People coming and going East, West, North and South.
A genuine nightmare that would shortly collapse into rebellion and civil war.
Only as a result of action by petty nationalist xenophobes.
It's hard to point to any first rate political leader in the West.
Vladimir Putin.
Though obviously he should be in the East :-)
Good to see you show your true allegiance. When will the other Brexit supporters follow suit? If your idea of a first rate political leader is someone who is an international thug who has no respect for the rule of law or any sense of decency, it says a lot about people with your political leanings. I am not surprised though.
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Not really. The sadness is that it will probably only die when it is seen and found to be the poison it is.
Like I said, your metaphors reflect the inner bleakness of your soul which darkens the way you see the whole world. I do honestly pity you unreconciled Remainers.
The United States of Europe. Political capital: Brussels. Financial capital: London. Manufacturing power house: Munich. People coming and going East, West, North and South.
A genuine nightmare that would shortly collapse into rebellion and civil war.
Only as a result of action by petty nationalist xenophobes.
Reports of Brexit's death are greatly exaggerated ( I regret to think). It is impossible that the Brexit cancer that is in the country's brain can easily be removed even by the greatest of brain surgeons, let alone Mr "2Es" Corbyn or Theresa "fields of wheat" May
Your metaphors simply reflect your own bleak outlook on the world as a whole.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
Not really. The sadness is that it will probably only die when it is seen and found to be the poison it is.
Like I said, your metaphors reflect the inner bleakness of your soul which darkens the way you see the whole world. I do honestly pity you unreconciled Remainers.
The United States of Europe. Political capital: Brussels. Financial capital: London. Manufacturing power house: Munich. People coming and going East, West, North and South.
A genuine nightmare that would shortly collapse into rebellion and civil war.
Only as a result of action by petty nationalist xenophobes.
Sad to see you siding with the anti-democrats and dictators. I do wonder where this hatred of self determination came from given the lessons of only 70 odd years ago.
It's hard to point to any first rate political leader in the West.
Vladimir Putin.
Though obviously he should be in the East :-)
Good to see you show your true allegiance. When will the other Brexit supporters follow suit? If your idea of a first rate political leader is someone who is an international thug who has no respect for the rule of law or any sense of decency, it says a lot about people with your political leanings. I am not surprised though.
Something else I find puzzling. Why would the president of the USA not get someone to check his spelling? (1) He's too arrogant to admit he has a problem with spelling. (2) He thinks bad spelling helps him because many of his supporters have the same problem.
Auto-correct affects even stable geniuses like myself, it really is the bane of my life.
I'll never forget the time an ex girlfriend reported me to the RSPCA when she received a text from me saying 'I can't wait to get home and kick your puppy'
the variations on that are quite startling
I'm just glad when I was young and feckless mobile phones didn't let you take pictures/videos of my fecklessness.
you would really have enjoyed the days when there were no mobile phones
I don't think so. That 24 hours that o2 went down for, I felt like I had become Amish for the day.
thats just going cold turkey
these days I put the ringer to zero and no calls after 19.00, Bliss. You can do your own stuff without people annoying you. Sleep better too.
There's a programme about twins coming up, where they did tests and proved that just having a mobile phone on significantly reduces your IQ......
Which might just explain all those enraptured by Apple products.
Is that about the damage mobile phones allegedly do to your brain?
No, it seems it is about the innate distraction just having one present that might go off does to our powers of concentration.
Sad to see you siding with the anti-democrats and dictators. I do wonder where this hatred of self determination came from given the lessons of only 70 odd years ago.
It's hard to point to any first rate political leader in the West.
Vladimir Putin.
Though obviously he should be in the East :-)
Good to see you show your true allegiance. When will the other Brexit supporters follow suit? If your idea of a first rate political leader is someone who is an international thug who has no respect for the rule of law or any sense of decency, it says a lot about people with your political leanings. I am not surprised though.
Always interting to hear views from the dog loving community
Sad to see you siding with the anti-democrats and dictators. I do wonder where this hatred of self determination came from given the lessons of only 70 odd years ago.
Comments
As it is.
Now of course all that lot held and hold supposedly diametrically opposing views but it is amazing what being given a shot at power does to the ability to compromise (cf. Lib Dems).
Even a cross-party commission or something would have been ok.
Your definition is utterly nonsensical.
If there was a time for her to have gone, it was either after the election or last summer, after Chequers.
Which might just explain all those enraptured by Apple products.
If given a choice between the EU and Putin I'd take the Eu every time. Although at least one Brexiteer on here chooses Putin ...
Plus I don't think an EU deal has been devised, not even if it promised free fox red labradors for all, that the ERG would accept.
Surely not. We had a referendum.
Massive, it was! Whole country got involved.
Brexit is clear, flowing stream water, fresh from the chalk spring. However much you might try to dam it, it will always find a way to break through and refresh the souls of those who have come to drink from its pools. .
There now, isn't that a much nicer way to look at the world?
It is just massive cakeism.
His big effort to unite the nation hasnt even got off the ground and the chair has resigned because of a salry dispute.
http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/le-scan/2019/01/09/25001-20190109ARTFIG00179-retrait-de-jouanno-l-opposition-juge-le-debat-national-mort-ne.php
meantime voters are now starting to turn out wherever he goes to tell him to clear off back to the Elysee
http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2019/01/09/97001-20190109FILWWW00259-plus-de-100-personnes-a-creteil-contre-la-venue-de-macron.php
"Don't vote for cruel Conservative cuts. Vote for nice Labour cuts."
This is of course entirely Brexiters fault. They've never ever acted like they were nursing a tiny 3.8% majority and facing a 2.5 year marathon between the referendum result and any Brexit day which was fraught with peril. It's a mixture of imperial overstretch pushing a very narrow win far too far and the crypto facistic " will of the people " stuff. The belief that one single marginal election result entitles them to the single biggest political change in post War history with no follow up work. They've acted like a screaming toddler demanding sweets at the checkout since 2016 and just haven't done the work.
Mr. Submarine, in that context, do you consider May or Robbins to be Brexiters? Prime responsibility must go to the Prime Minister.
Luckily cake is not subject to VAT.
Inflicting an EU Parliament on them seems very unfair.
Not too many Brexit supporters welcomed Putins’s aggression in Ukraine or welcomed his sanctioning Novichok in Salisbury. To pretend we are all Putin supporters is facile.
Parliament doing simply the EU’s bidding on the other hand has a long and undistinguished factual base.
If Laura K spent nearly as much time getting serious background briefings from reliable official sources as she did tweeting dismal gags and platitudes, we'd be infinitely better informed as a nation.
Though obviously he should be in the East :-)
The pisspoor attempts to deflect by the true believers are utterly risible.
The party will pay for that perhaps fatally if Brexit is postponed or cancelled.
The Con remainers simply have no answer as to what happens next.
That's your side. As I said above, one Brexiteer on here even said he'd prefer Putin.
Brexiteers a re traitorous winnets, one and all.
The best future for Russia is integration with the West to avoid becoming China’s fuel tank. Putin’s rule has made that almost impossible.
For some reason, it does feel as though the soul of Brexit is departing.
https://order-order.com/2019/01/09/boothroyd-bercows-behaviour-disgusting-absolute-utter-disgrace/
Jan-Mar 2019: 34%
Apr-Dec 2019: 28%
Do people think that's right? That even conditional on the Brexit timetable being extended, there would still be a 42% probability of leaving by the end of the year?