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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Theresa May is more popular through the first thirty months of her tenure than Thatcher and Cameron. An analysis into Prime Ministerial satisfaction ratings
Prime Ministers are, of course, towering figures in public life. Pillars of UK society that are respected and loved in equal measure and enter government with the goodwill of the nation behind them. Then with fairly predictable regularity they slip from the hearts of the public and in some cases end up getting burnt in effigy.
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@corporeal
When I said I was looking forward to your next article, I didn't realise it would be so fast! Thank you!0 -
Part three is out this evening and like the two other two it is amazing.viewcode said:@corporeal
When I said I was looking forward to your next article, I didn't realise it would be so fast! Thank you!0 -
Good to know.TheScreamingEagles said:
Part three is out this evening and like the two other two it is amazing.viewcode said:@corporeal
When I said I was looking forward to your next article, I didn't realise it would be so fast! Thank you!0 -
Ugh, Mr Eagles.TheScreamingEagles said:
Part three is out this evening and like the two other two it is amazing.viewcode said:@corporeal
When I said I was looking forward to your next article, I didn't realise it would be so fast! Thank you!
You need to get Grammarly...
As for its relative awesomeness, can we please decide this by AV?0 -
I woke up at 5am on Saturday, went to bed at 3.30am this morning and met the EDL yesterday, I'm a bit tired and I can blame auto-correct.ydoethur said:
Ugh, Mr Eagles.TheScreamingEagles said:
Part three is out this evening and like the two other two it is amazing.viewcode said:@corporeal
When I said I was looking forward to your next article, I didn't realise it would be so fast! Thank you!
You need to get Grammarly...
As for its relative awesomeness, can we please decide this by AV?0 -
The EU eventually forced France to lift its ban on British beef. The other countries were already compliant. The EU would have kept its ban just as the US did, if we weren't members. Definitely an instance where membership was beneficial.SouthamObserver said:
Decent call - though I am not sure that us not being in the EU would have had any effect on that.ydoethur said:
The export ban on beef springs to mind.SouthamObserver said:
What has been imposed on us that we did not want imposed? I am sure there must have been stuff - really blindingly obvious, big ticket stuff that our government fought tooth and nail to prevent but just couldn't - but I cannot for the life of me think of what it was.Richard_Tyndall said:
We have been a vassal state for years. It is only the Eurofanatics who can't see that. The pretence of control was simply a means to keep us onboard with the project and in the end a majority of the public saw that. Including many Remain voters who, if polls and vox pops are to be believed only voted Remain for fear of something worse.FF43 said:
Ik.Barnesian said:
Rapid capitulation to the Vassal State is all we deserve. I'm sure we'll be well looked after within the warm embrace of the EU rather than shivering in the cold outside.FF43 said:
I'm afraid I don't agree with Mr Kinabalu. The Deal means either rapid capitulation to the Vassal State, which I don't think suits the UK - it's not Norway - or FTA death by a thousand cuts, which comes to the same thing ultimately. Brexit will dominate for the foreseeable. Remaining is the only outcome where there's nothing further to negotiate, even if a part of the population rejects it outright.OldKingCole said:
Though I found Mr Kinabalu's contribution thoughtful and interesting, it didn't convince me to vote for The Deal. I'm still a Remainer.
If nothing else the Brexit process has highlighted this so that only the genuine fanatics can be under an delusions about our influence within the EU.
On topic, sort of, with Corporal's excellent spreadsheet mini-series, Thatcher was far less popular than made out to be in hindsight. She benefited from a divided opposition.0 -
It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?0
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What did we used to blame for our errors before we had auto-correct?TheScreamingEagles said:
I woke up at 5am on Saturday, went to bed at 3.30am this morning and met the EDL yesterday, I'm a bit tired and I can blame auto-correct.ydoethur said:
Ugh, Mr Eagles.TheScreamingEagles said:
Part three is out this evening and like the two other two it is amazing.viewcode said:@corporeal
When I said I was looking forward to your next article, I didn't realise it would be so fast! Thank you!
You need to get Grammarly...
As for its relative awesomeness, can we please decide this by AV?0 -
May didn’t inherit the problems that Thatcher did which is just as well because she is a isn’t fit to deal with the issues she does have to deal with. Cameron was saddled with Coalition partners and most people had worked out after 30 months that the Big Society was totally meaningless.
Being relatively unpopular doesn’t have any correlation to electability. Her successor may fare better or worse but the Tories are heading for opposition against the most incompetent Labour Party since Foot’s with May. At least with someone new leading, they have a chance of becoming electable again.0 -
My friends blamed alcohol, I never made mistakes prior to auto-correct, honestly, me making mistakes, that's unpossible.ydoethur said:
What did we used to blame for our errors before we had auto-correct?TheScreamingEagles said:
I woke up at 5am on Saturday, went to bed at 3.30am this morning and met the EDL yesterday, I'm a bit tired and I can blame auto-correct.ydoethur said:
Ugh, Mr Eagles.TheScreamingEagles said:
Part three is out this evening and like the two other two it is amazing.viewcode said:@corporeal
When I said I was looking forward to your next article, I didn't realise it would be so fast! Thank you!
You need to get Grammarly...
As for its relative awesomeness, can we please decide this by AV?0 -
No, it didn't 'force France to lift its ban on British beef.' It allowed France to keep its ban in place for seven years AFTER the ban had been revoked, despite numerous rulings from the CJEU that it should be lifted. And it has never forced France to pay the £2.1 billion in fines it should have had for that breach of the rules.FF43 said:
The EU eventually forced France to lift its ban on British beef. The other countries were already compliant. The EU would have kept its ban just as the US did, if we weren't members. Definitely an instance where membership was beneficial.
On topic, sort of, with Corporal's excellent spreadsheet mini-series, Thatcher was far less popular than made out to be in hindsight. She benefited from a divided opposition.
As for the suggestion that if we had not been in the EU there would have been somebody to impose a blanket ban on the export of all British beef - what are you smoking?
It was not only not beneficial, it was a disaster, a criminal enterprise put forward by certain elements that shall be nameless to exploit a public health emergency for their personal gain - and people died as a result.
That is not to say the EU is all bad - if it was, I wouldn't have voted remain - just to remind people that there are times when it got it appallingly badly wrong and showed itself in the darkest of lights.
Of course, if we had behaved like France and ignored the EU when it didn't suit us, we would not be about to leave. That's the irony.0 -
Write, post, read, edit. It works very time.TheScreamingEagles said:
I woke up at 5am on Saturday, went to bed at 3.30am this morning and met the EDL yesterday, I'm a bit tired and I can blame auto-correct.ydoethur said:
Ugh, Mr Eagles.TheScreamingEagles said:
Part three is out this evening and like the two other two it is amazing.viewcode said:@corporeal
When I said I was looking forward to your next article, I didn't realise it would be so fast! Thank you!
You need to get Grammarly...
As for its relative awesomeness, can we please decide this by AV?
Edit: It works every time.
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Boom boom!Benpointer said:
Write, post, read, edit. It works very time.TheScreamingEagles said:
I woke up at 5am on Saturday, went to bed at 3.30am this morning and met the EDL yesterday, I'm a bit tired and I can blame auto-correct.ydoethur said:
Ugh, Mr Eagles.TheScreamingEagles said:
Part three is out this evening and like the two other two it is amazing.viewcode said:@corporeal
When I said I was looking forward to your next article, I didn't realise it would be so fast! Thank you!
You need to get Grammarly...
As for its relative awesomeness, can we please decide this by AV?
Edit: It works every time.0 -
Rightly or wrongly, consumers found the idea of eating mad cows abhorrent. All the bans on British beef were driven by consumer pressure. The EU lifted its ban on British beef after three years only because the UK was a member and could bring pressure to bear. Otherwise it would have left its ban in place - as the Americans did for twenty years!ydoethur said:
No, it didn't 'force France to lift its ban on British beef.' It allowed France to keep its ban in place for seven years AFTER the ban had been revoked, despite numerous rulings from the CJEU that it should be lifted. And it has never forced France to pay the £2.1 billion in fines it should have had for that breach of the rules.FF43 said:
The EU eventually forced France to lift its ban on British beef. The other countries were already compliant. The EU would have kept its ban just as the US did, if we weren't members. Definitely an instance where membership was beneficial.
On topic, sort of, with Corporal's excellent spreadsheet mini-series, Thatcher was far less popular than made out to be in hindsight. She benefited from a divided opposition.
As for the suggestion that if we had not been in the EU there would have been somebody to impose a blanket ban on the export of all British beef - what are you smoking?
It was not only not beneficial, it was a disaster, a criminal enterprise put forward by certain elements that shall be nameless to exploit a public health emergency for their personal gain - and people died as a result.
That is not to say the EU is all bad - if it was, I wouldn't have voted remain - just to remind people that there are times when it got it appallingly badly wrong and showed itself in the darkest of lights.
Of course, if we had behaved like France and ignored the EU when it didn't suit us, we would not be about to leave. That's the irony.0 -
Sounds like Brexit after No Deal.Sean_F said:
Wildly popular once, now widely despised.kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
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Just shows; one major error and that's that. Wonder how May will be regarded in a few years time.Sean_F said:
Wildly popular once, now widely despised.kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
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Airbrushed out, same as Major.OldKingCole said:
Just shows; one major error and that's that. Wonder how May will be regarded in a few years time.Sean_F said:
Wildly popular once, now widely despised.kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
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No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.0 -
So we should be a member because otherwise corrupt and illegal things will be done to hurt us?FF43 said:
Rightly or wrongly, consumers found the idea of eating mad cows abhorrent. All the bans on British beef were driven by consumer pressure. The EU lifted its ban on British beef after three years only because the UK was a member and could bring pressure to bear. Otherwise it would have left its ban in place - as the Americans did for twenty years!ydoethur said:
No, it didn't 'force France to lift its ban on British beef.' It allowed France to keep its ban in place for seven years AFTER the ban had been revoked, despite numerous rulings from the CJEU that it should be lifted. And it has never forced France to pay the £2.1 billion in fines it should have had for that breach of the rules.FF43 said:
The EU eventually forced France to lift its ban on British beef. The other countries were already compliant. The EU would have kept its ban just as the US did, if we weren't members. Definitely an instance where membership was beneficial.
On topic, sort of, with Corporal's excellent spreadsheet mini-series, Thatcher was far less popular than made out to be in hindsight. She benefited from a divided opposition.
As for the suggestion that if we had not been in the EU there would have been somebody to impose a blanket ban on the export of all British beef - what are you smoking?
It was not only not beneficial, it was a disaster, a criminal enterprise put forward by certain elements that shall be nameless to exploit a public health emergency for their personal gain - and people died as a result.
That is not to say the EU is all bad - if it was, I wouldn't have voted remain - just to remind people that there are times when it got it appallingly badly wrong and showed itself in the darkest of lights.
Of course, if we had behaved like France and ignored the EU when it didn't suit us, we would not be about to leave. That's the irony.0 -
He's almost admitting that the EU is no more than a dressed up protection racket. Surprising honesty from the most EUfanatic member on here.Charles said:
So we should be a member because otherwise corrupt and illegal things will be done to hurt us?FF43 said:
Rightly or wrongly, consumers found the idea of eating mad cows abhorrent. All the bans on British beef were driven by consumer pressure. The EU lifted its ban on British beef after three years only because the UK was a member and could bring pressure to bear. Otherwise it would have left its ban in place - as the Americans did for twenty years!ydoethur said:
No, it didn't 'force France to lift its ban on British beef.' It allowed France to keep its ban in place for seven years AFTER the ban had been revoked, despite numerous rulings from the CJEU that it should be lifted. And it has never forced France to pay the £2.1 billion in fines it should have had for that breach of the rules.FF43 said:
The EU eventually forced France to lift its ban on British beef. The other countries were already compliant. The EU would have kept its ban just as the US did, if we weren't members. Definitely an instance where membership was beneficial.
On topic, sort of, with Corporal's excellent spreadsheet mini-series, Thatcher was far less popular than made out to be in hindsight. She benefited from a divided opposition.
As for the suggestion that if we had not been in the EU there would have been somebody to impose a blanket ban on the export of all British beef - what are you smoking?
It was not only not beneficial, it was a disaster, a criminal enterprise put forward by certain elements that shall be nameless to exploit a public health emergency for their personal gain - and people died as a result.
That is not to say the EU is all bad - if it was, I wouldn't have voted remain - just to remind people that there are times when it got it appallingly badly wrong and showed itself in the darkest of lights.
Of course, if we had behaved like France and ignored the EU when it didn't suit us, we would not be about to leave. That's the irony.0 -
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.0 -
I don't get your point. I am simply pointing out, as a matter of fact, that the EU lifted its ban on British beef far earlier than it would have done otherwise and well before other administrations. Unfortunately British beef was seen worldwide as poison.Charles said:
So we should be a member because otherwise corrupt and illegal things will be done to hurt us?FF43 said:
Rightly or wrongly, consumers found the idea of eating mad cows abhorrent. All the bans on British beef were driven by consumer pressure. The EU lifted its ban on British beef after three years only because the UK was a member and could bring pressure to bear. Otherwise it would have left its ban in place - as the Americans did for twenty years!ydoethur said:
No, it didn't 'force France to lift its ban on British beef.' It allowed France to keep its ban in place for seven years AFTER the ban had been revoked, despite numerous rulings from the CJEU that it should be lifted. And it has never forced France to pay the £2.1 billion in fines it should have had for that breach of the rules.FF43 said:
The EU eventually forced France to lift its ban on British beef. The other countries were already compliant. The EU would have kept its ban just as the US did, if we weren't members. Definitely an instance where membership was beneficial.
On topic, sort of, with Corporal's excellent spreadsheet mini-series, Thatcher was far less popular than made out to be in hindsight. She benefited from a divided opposition.
As for the suggestion that if we had not been in the EU there would have been somebody to impose a blanket ban on the export of all British beef - what are you smoking?
It was not only not beneficial, it was a disaster, a criminal enterprise put forward by certain elements that shall be nameless to exploit a public health emergency for their personal gain - and people died as a result.
That is not to say the EU is all bad - if it was, I wouldn't have voted remain - just to remind people that there are times when it got it appallingly badly wrong and showed itself in the darkest of lights.
Of course, if we had behaved like France and ignored the EU when it didn't suit us, we would not be about to leave. That's the irony.0 -
I do it all for my public.viewcode said:@corporeal
When I said I was looking forward to your next article, I didn't realise it would be so fast! Thank you!
For additional nerdery there's some extra charts on my twitter account. Ones that weren't pretty enough for the article.0 -
Thanks as ever to TSE for his editing and overseeing services.0
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Jeez, you guys!MaxPB said:
He's almost admitting that the EU is no more than a dressed up protection racket. Surprising honesty from the most EUfanatic member on here.Charles said:
So we should be a member because otherwise corrupt and illegal things will be done to hurt us?FF43 said:
Rightly or wrongly, consumers found the idea of eating mad cows abhorrent. All the bans on British beef were driven by consumer pressure. The EU lifted its ban on British beef after three years only because the UK was a member and could bring pressure to bear. Otherwise it would have left its ban in place - as the Americans did for twenty years!ydoethur said:
No, it didn't 'force France to lift its ban on British beef.' It allowed France to keep its ban in place for seven years AFTER the ban had been revoked, despite numerous rulings from the CJEU that it should be lifted. And it has never forced France to pay the £2.1 billion in fines it should have had for that breach of the rules.FF43 said:
The EU eventually forced France to lift its ban on British beef. The other countries were already compliant. The EU would have kept its ban just as the US did, if we weren't members. Definitely an instance where membership was beneficial.
On topic, sort of, with Corporal's excellent spreadsheet mini-series, Thatcher was far less popular than made out to be in hindsight. She benefited from a divided opposition.
As for the suggestion that if we had not been in the EU there would have been somebody to impose a blanket ban on the export of all British beef - what are you smoking?
It was not only not beneficial, it was a disaster, a criminal enterprise put forward by certain elements that shall be nameless to exploit a public health emergency for their personal gain - and people died as a result.
That is not to say the EU is all bad - if it was, I wouldn't have voted remain - just to remind people that there are times when it got it appallingly badly wrong and showed itself in the darkest of lights.
Of course, if we had behaved like France and ignored the EU when it didn't suit us, we would not be about to leave. That's the irony.
A club supports its members. If you want to call that a protection racket go ahead. But then NATO is a protection racket too. The UK is a protection racket.
The Conservative party is a protection racket... (hang on, you might have a point on that one.)0 -
Linky, please?corporeal said:
I do it all for my public.viewcode said:@corporeal
When I said I was looking forward to your next article, I didn't realise it would be so fast! Thank you!
For additional nerdery there's some extra charts on my twitter account. Ones that weren't pretty enough for the article.0 -
I was beginning to wobble in my prediction that we wont in the end actually leave the EU.
Rentoul has cheered me up no end:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-referendum-final-say-leave-split-remain-a8713046.html0 -
True best PM in my lifetime .Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.
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Except Brexit was never wildly popular of course.TheScreamingEagles said:
Sounds like Brexit after No Deal.Sean_F said:
Wildly popular once, now widely despised.kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
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https://twitter.com/PBcorporealviewcode said:
Linky, please?corporeal said:
I do it all for my public.viewcode said:@corporeal
When I said I was looking forward to your next article, I didn't realise it would be so fast! Thank you!
For additional nerdery there's some extra charts on my twitter account. Ones that weren't pretty enough for the article.0 -
Betfair continues to suggest almost ZERO chance of leaving on 29 March with No Deal.
Look at the two markets:
Will UK leave by 29 March? No: 1.61 Back, 1,65 Lay
When will Commons pass Brexit vote? Not before 30 March: 1.56 Back, 1.6 Lay
So odds are within a whisker of identical.
Assuming that if the vote passes we 100% do leave (seems reasonable) then if vote doesn't pass then there is only a miniscule chance (literally about 2% - ie difference between 1.56 and 1.61) of leaving on 29 March.0 -
Favorite'ed. Thank you.corporeal said:
https://twitter.com/PBcorporealviewcode said:
Linky, please?corporeal said:
I do it all for my public.viewcode said:@corporeal
When I said I was looking forward to your next article, I didn't realise it would be so fast! Thank you!
For additional nerdery there's some extra charts on my twitter account. Ones that weren't pretty enough for the article.0 -
Let's not forget that Blair won a majority AFTER Iraq. Looking back, that result is more remarkable than the two landslides.Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.0 -
Yes, I'm inclined to agree.Yorkcity said:
True best PM in my lifetime .Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.
Iraq was a terrible mistake but... just look at how poor the other PMs have been.0 -
He left a lot of problems behind him, which manifested themselves under his successors.Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.0 -
It's a personal view, Sandy, but I always regard Brown as the mirror image of Blair - a crap PM who had one highly significant policy success to his credit, the management of the financial crisis.SandyRentool said:
Let's not forget that Blair won a majority AFTER Iraq. Looking back, that result is more remarkable than the two landslides.Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.0 -
https://www.datawrapper.de/_/KSf5u/viewcode said:
Favorite'ed. Thank you.corporeal said:
https://twitter.com/PBcorporealviewcode said:
Linky, please?corporeal said:
I do it all for my public.viewcode said:@corporeal
When I said I was looking forward to your next article, I didn't realise it would be so fast! Thank you!
For additional nerdery there's some extra charts on my twitter account. Ones that weren't pretty enough for the article.
This is a chart format I was trying to figure out but couldn't get it quite clean enough for the articles.0 -
Personally I'd go for Major, although he was regularly stymied by the dysfunctional state of his Party.Yorkcity said:
True best PM in my lifetime .Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
I'm beginning to wonder if the British public aren't, collectively, an epic set of pollster trolls.0 -
That could happen, but to prevent Brexit, I think one needs a change of government.rottenborough said:I was beginning to wobble in my prediction that we wont in the end actually leave the EU.
Rentoul has cheered me up no end:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-referendum-final-say-leave-split-remain-a8713046.html0 -
Thatcher, for me.Peter_the_Punter said:
Personally I'd go for Major, although he was regularly stymied by the dysfunctional state of his Party.Yorkcity said:
True best PM in my lifetime .Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.0 -
Good point.SandyRentool said:
Let's not forget that Blair won a majority AFTER Iraq. Looking back, that result is more remarkable than the two landslides.Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.
I think 9/11 took away a lot of Blair's focus on his second term.
Also the decision to back Bush over Iraq in my opinion was in part , not to have the perception of a Labour Party been anti American.
Especially with the Conservative Party at the time been even more keen in support of Bush.0 -
They all do that, Sean. It's fair to say though that his greater achievements were front-loaded towards the early days of his tenure (Kosovo for example.) But he did govern sensibly enough from the Centre, for the most part. We could do with a decent Centreist right now.Sean_F said:
He left a lot of problems behind him, which manifested themselves under his successors.Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.0 -
I do have to applaud corporeal's style. That's a very cutting final sentence, intentionally or not.0
-
I wonder how much 2005 was actually Gordon's election. Amazing to think that at the time many regarded Tony's premiership as merely a kind of warm-up act - preparation for the golden age of Brown that was to come.SandyRentool said:
Let's not forget that Blair won a majority AFTER Iraq. Looking back, that result is more remarkable than the two landslides.Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.0 -
She was the worst - and by far the most venal - in my lifetime.Sean_F said:
Thatcher, for me.Peter_the_Punter said:
Personally I'd go for Major, although he was regularly stymied by the dysfunctional state of his Party.Yorkcity said:
True best PM in my lifetime .Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.0 -
I'm not sure about 'venal' but she single-handedly turned the One Nation Tory party into the Nasty Party.justin124 said:
She was the worst - and by far the most venal - in my lifetime.Sean_F said:
Thatcher, for me.Peter_the_Punter said:
Personally I'd go for Major, although he was regularly stymied by the dysfunctional state of his Party.Yorkcity said:
True best PM in my lifetime .Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.0 -
On reflection over the years.Peter_the_Punter said:
Personally I'd go for Major, although he was regularly stymied by the dysfunctional state of his Party.Yorkcity said:
True best PM in my lifetime .Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.
Major has gone up in my estimation.
The deal he got at Maastricht looks brilliant in comparison to Mays best efforts in the present day.0 -
Since my first PM was Macmillan same here. As Andrew Marr observed "We are all Thatcher's children."Sean_F said:
Thatcher, for me.Peter_the_Punter said:
Personally I'd go for Major, although he was regularly stymied by the dysfunctional state of his Party.Yorkcity said:
True best PM in my lifetime .Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.0 -
Good, but not the best for me, Sean. Too divisive. Churchill the worst (drunk much of the time). Atlee would be up at the top but I was born in 1948 so scarcely qualifies as 'in my lifetime'. Heath and Wilson I have mid-division, but probably better than their general classification. Cameron would have scored high but for one rather unfortunate gaff....ahem.Sean_F said:
Thatcher, for me.Peter_the_Punter said:
Personally I'd go for Major, although he was regularly stymied by the dysfunctional state of his Party.Yorkcity said:
True best PM in my lifetime .Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.0 -
Do you understand the meaning of 'venal'?justin124 said:
She was the worst - and by far the most venal - in my lifetime.Sean_F said:
Thatcher, for me.Peter_the_Punter said:
Personally I'd go for Major, although he was regularly stymied by the dysfunctional state of his Party.Yorkcity said:
True best PM in my lifetime .Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.
Thatcher was many things, but there is little to no evidence she was willing to behave in a way that is not honest or moral in exchange for money.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/venal
If anyone came closest to that it was Blair - and I don't remotely think he was.0 -
The EU ban lasted 10 years, not 3. (1996-2006)FF43 said:
I don't get your point. I am simply pointing out, as a matter of fact, that the EU lifted its ban on British beef far earlier than it would have done otherwise and well before other administrations. Unfortunately British beef was seen worldwide as poison.Charles said:
So we should be a member because otherwise corrupt and illegal things will be done to hurt us?FF43 said:
Rightly or wrongly, consumers found the idea of eating mad cows abhorrent. All the bans on British beef were driven by consumer pressure. The EU lifted its ban on British beef after three years only because the UK was a member and could bring pressure to bear. Otherwise it would have left its ban in place - as the Americans did for twenty years!ydoethur said:
No, it didn't 'force France to lift its ban on British beef.' It allowed France to keep its ban in place for seven years AFTER the ban had been revoked, despite numerous rulings from the CJEU that it should be lifted. And it has never forced France to pay the £2.1 billion in fines it should have had for that breach of the rules.FF43 said:
The EU eventually forced France to lift its ban on British beef. The other countries were already compliant. The EU would have kept its ban just as the US did, if we weren't members. Definitely an instance where membership was beneficial.
On topic, sort of, with Corporal's excellent spreadsheet mini-series, Thatcher was far less popular than made out to be in hindsight. She benefited from a divided opposition.
As for the suggestion that if we had not been in the EU there would have been somebody to impose a blanket ban on the export of all British beef - what are you smoking?
It was not only not beneficial, it was a disaster, a criminal enterprise put forward by certain elements that shall be nameless to exploit a public health emergency for their personal gain - and people died as a result.
That is not to say the EU is all bad - if it was, I wouldn't have voted remain - just to remind people that there are times when it got it appallingly badly wrong and showed itself in the darkest of lights.
Of course, if we had behaved like France and ignored the EU when it didn't suit us, we would not be about to leave. That's the irony.
We could, of course, taken the EU to the WTO for illegal restraint of trade if we were not a member0 -
Did we take the USA to the WTO?Charles said:
The EU ban lasted 10 years, not 3. (1996-2006)FF43 said:
I don't get your point. I am simply pointing out, as a matter of fact, that the EU lifted its ban on British beef far earlier than it would have done otherwise and well before other administrations. Unfortunately British beef was seen worldwide as poison.Charles said:
So we should be a member because otherwise corrupt and illegal things will be done to hurt us?FF43 said:
Rightly or wrongly, consumers found the idea of eating mad cows abhorrent. All the bans on British beef were driven by consumer pressure. The EU lifted its ban on British beef after three years only because the UK was a member and could bring pressure to bear. Otherwise it would have left its ban in place - as the Americans did for twenty years!ydoethur said:
No, it didn't 'force France to lift its ban on British beef.' It allowed France to keep its ban in place for seven years AFTER the ban had been revoked, despite numerous rulings from the CJEU that it should be lifted. And it has never forced France to pay the £2.1 billion in fines it should have had for that breach of the rules.FF43 said:
The EU eventually forced France to lift its ban on British beef. The other countries were already compliant. The EU would have kept its ban just as the US did, if we weren't members. Definitely an instance where membership was beneficial.
On topic, sort of, with Corporal's excellent spreadsheet mini-series, Thatcher was far less popular than made out to be in hindsight. She benefited from a divided opposition.
As for the suggestion that if we had not been in the EU there would have been somebody to impose a blanket ban on the export of all British beef - what are you smoking?
It was not only not beneficial, it was a disaster, a criminal enterprise put forward by certain elements that shall be nameless to exploit a public health emergency for their personal gain - and people died as a result.
That is not to say the EU is all bad - if it was, I wouldn't have voted remain - just to remind people that there are times when it got it appallingly badly wrong and showed itself in the darkest of lights.
Of course, if we had behaved like France and ignored the EU when it didn't suit us, we would not be about to leave. That's the irony.
We could, of course, taken the EU to the WTO for illegal restraint of trade if we were not a member0 -
No: what @FF43 said was the ban was illegal but it was only lifted as quickly as it was because we were a member.Benpointer said:
Jeez, you guys!MaxPB said:
He's almost admitting that the EU is no more than a dressed up protection racket. Surprising honesty from the most EUfanatic member on here.Charles said:
So we should be a member because otherwise corrupt and illegal things will be done to hurt us?FF43 said:
Rightly or wrongly, consumers found the idea of eating mad cows abhorrent. All the bans on British beef were driven by consumer pressure. The EU lifted its ban on British beef after three years only because the UK was a member and could bring pressure to bear. Otherwise it would have left its ban in place - as the Americans did for twenty years!ydoethur said:
No, it didn't 'force France to lift its ban on British beef.' It allowed France to keep its ban in place for seven years AFTER the ban had been revoked, despite numerous rulings from the CJEU that it should be lifted. And it has never forced France to pay the £2.1 billion in fines it should have had for that breach of the rules.FF43 said:
The EU eventually forced France to lift its ban on British beef. The other countries were already compliant. The EU would have kept its ban just as the US did, if we weren't members. Definitely an instance where membership was beneficial.
On topic, sort of, with Corporal's excellent spreadsheet mini-series, Thatcher was far less popular than made out to be in hindsight. She benefited from a divided opposition.
As for the suggestion that if we had not been in the EU there would have been somebody to impose a blanket ban on the export of all British beef - what are you smoking?
It was not only not beneficial, it was a disaster, a criminal enterprise put forward by certain elements that shall be nameless to exploit a public health emergency for their personal gain - and people died as a result.
That is not to say the EU is all bad - if it was, I wouldn't have voted remain - just to remind people that there are times when it got it appallingly badly wrong and showed itself in the darkest of lights.
Of course, if we had behaved like France and ignored the EU when it didn't suit us, we would not be about to leave. That's the irony.
A club supports its members. If you want to call that a protection racket go ahead. But then NATO is a protection racket too. The UK is a protection racket.
The Conservative party is a protection racket... (hang on, you might have a point on that one.)
My view is that an illegal ban should never have been imposed.0 -
Mr. Punter, bit harsh for you to hold the "Calm down, dear" comment against Cameron.0
-
To left wing contemporaries, the Conservatives have always been The Nasty Party. Even Macmillan was reviled by the left, during his premiership.Benpointer said:
I'm not sure about 'venal' but she single-handedly turned the One Nation Tory party into the Nasty Party.justin124 said:
She was the worst - and by far the most venal - in my lifetime.Sean_F said:
Thatcher, for me.Peter_the_Punter said:
Personally I'd go for Major, although he was regularly stymied by the dysfunctional state of his Party.Yorkcity said:
True best PM in my lifetime .Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.0 -
Mr. and Mrs. Blair were like truffle hounds, in their pursuit of the fruits of office.CarlottaVance said:
Do you understand the meaning of 'venal'?justin124 said:
She was the worst - and by far the most venal - in my lifetime.Sean_F said:
Thatcher, for me.Peter_the_Punter said:
Personally I'd go for Major, although he was regularly stymied by the dysfunctional state of his Party.Yorkcity said:
True best PM in my lifetime .Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.
Thatcher was many things, but there is little to no evidence she was willing to behave in a way that is not honest or moral in exchange for money.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/venal
If anyone came closest to that it was Blair - and I don't remotely think he was.0 -
0
-
"Wealth post office" would be an interesting measure.......which the Blairs would win by a country mile.....Sean_F said:
Mr. and Mrs. Blair were like truffle hounds, in their pursuit of the fruits of office.CarlottaVance said:
Do you understand the meaning of 'venal'?justin124 said:
She was the worst - and by far the most venal - in my lifetime.Sean_F said:
Thatcher, for me.Peter_the_Punter said:
Personally I'd go for Major, although he was regularly stymied by the dysfunctional state of his Party.Yorkcity said:
True best PM in my lifetime .Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.
Thatcher was many things, but there is little to no evidence she was willing to behave in a way that is not honest or moral in exchange for money.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/venal
If anyone came closest to that it was Blair - and I don't remotely think he was.0 -
I know Corbyn (and presumably Gardiner too) are intent on making the point that a Labour leave would be better than a Tory leave, rather than just do what their members want and come out for Remain, but surely there's better ways?CarlottaVance said:I see they let Gardiner out again.....
https://twitter.com/Tony_Robinson/status/10819391861381283850 -
They were certainly quick to pick up the scent, Sean. I guess that bothers you more than me, but that they were is indisputable.Sean_F said:
Mr. and Mrs. Blair were like truffle hounds, in their pursuit of the fruits of office.CarlottaVance said:
Do you understand the meaning of 'venal'?justin124 said:
She was the worst - and by far the most venal - in my lifetime.Sean_F said:
Thatcher, for me.Peter_the_Punter said:
Personally I'd go for Major, although he was regularly stymied by the dysfunctional state of his Party.Yorkcity said:
True best PM in my lifetime .Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.
Thatcher was many things, but there is little to no evidence she was willing to behave in a way that is not honest or moral in exchange for money.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/venal
If anyone came closest to that it was Blair - and I don't remotely think he was.0 -
I do appreciate he's cutting out the bullsh*t and being clear that, in the Commons at least (and most outside it, though not all), Referendum is just code for Remain. Pretty crazy that people stated to be opposed to the deal are still assumed to fall in line with it anyway.rottenborough said:0 -
I know I posted that Blair made one mistake but in fact there were two significant ones. Iraq, of course, and why he backed Bush, God alone knows. However his other was hanging on and making Brown wait. If it hadn't been for Iraq, of course, Brown might have led the party into the 2005 election.Stark_Dawning said:
I wonder how much 2005 was actually Gordon's election. Amazing to think that at the time many regarded Tony's premiership as merely a kind of warm-up act - preparation for the golden age of Brown that was to come.SandyRentool said:
Let's not forget that Blair won a majority AFTER Iraq. Looking back, that result is more remarkable than the two landslides.Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.0 -
Lol! I actually thought that was pretty funny. But then so was 'stupid woman' which would have been fairy nuff in the mouth of somebody less balls-achingly PC as Corbyn.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Punter, bit harsh for you to hold the "Calm down, dear" comment against Cameron.
0 -
I don't think Maggie's reputation will pass the test of time as well as I once thought. I know of ardent admirers of her back then who now express reservations or downright hostility. Yes, she dragged Britain from the mire of the 1970s, but that seems increasingly like a battle of its time. Pointing to an enduring legacy is more difficult.0
-
Labour leave is as mythical as the unicorn farms. It is a load of hot air about negotiating a jobs first Brexit. The EU wont give Labour the cake they want and the only way to really protect thousands of jobs is to remain.kle4 said:
I know Corbyn (and presumably Gardiner too) are intent on making the point that a Labour leave would be better than a Tory leave, rather than just do what their members want and come out for Remain, but surely there's better ways?CarlottaVance said:I see they let Gardiner out again.....
https://twitter.com/Tony_Robinson/status/1081939186138128385
0 -
Mr. Punter, aye, agree on both counts.0
-
I suspect Cameron would be, but........Peter_the_Punter said:
They were certainly quick to pick up the scent, Sean. I guess that bothers you more than me, but that they were is indisputable.Sean_F said:
Mr. and Mrs. Blair were like truffle hounds, in their pursuit of the fruits of office.CarlottaVance said:
Do you understand the meaning of 'venal'?justin124 said:
She was the worst - and by far the most venal - in my lifetime.Sean_F said:
Thatcher, for me.Peter_the_Punter said:
Personally I'd go for Major, although he was regularly stymied by the dysfunctional state of his Party.Yorkcity said:
True best PM in my lifetime .Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.
Thatcher was many things, but there is little to no evidence she was willing to behave in a way that is not honest or moral in exchange for money.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/venal
If anyone came closest to that it was Blair - and I don't remotely think he was.0 -
-
Corbyn should be more honest. He sincerely believes the EU will stop him implementing a fully socialist economy in the UK.
He's an out and out Leaver and has been since the 1970s.0 -
Have we done this?
A new YouGov poll of 25,000 people has found that the Tories are now on 40 points - while Jeremy Corbyn's Labour are lagging behind on just 34 points.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6562311/Tories-six-point-lead-Labour-despite-Brexit-civil-war.html0 -
Mark Thatchers role in the al Yamamah arms deal negotiated by his mother springs to mind.CarlottaVance said:
Do you understand the meaning of 'venal'?justin124 said:
She was the worst - and by far the most venal - in my lifetime.Sean_F said:
Thatcher, for me.Peter_the_Punter said:
Personally I'd go for Major, although he was regularly stymied by the dysfunctional state of his Party.Yorkcity said:
True best PM in my lifetime .Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.
Thatcher was many things, but there is little to no evidence she was willing to behave in a way that is not honest or moral in exchange for money.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/venal
If anyone came closest to that it was Blair - and I don't remotely think he was.
0 -
It is too late for a new negotiation under Corbyn, this is true, and I am surprised they are still pushing it, but I understand why, but there's unrealistic claims and then theirs very unrealistic claims.rottenborough said:
Labour leave is as mythical as the unicorn farms. It is a load of hot air about negotiating a jobs first Brexit. The EU wont give Labour the cake they want and the only way to really protect thousands of jobs is to remain.kle4 said:
I know Corbyn (and presumably Gardiner too) are intent on making the point that a Labour leave would be better than a Tory leave, rather than just do what their members want and come out for Remain, but surely there's better ways?CarlottaVance said:I see they let Gardiner out again.....
https://twitter.com/Tony_Robinson/status/1081939186138128385
I upset a family member of mine recently when I expressed the view, oft mentioned, that I really hope we are getting to a point whereby people stop trying to scare and inspire me by banging on about Thatcher. Which is not to say I think any legacy of hers, positive and negative, should be dismissed or forgotten, and in fairness the deification/demonisation of her has not seemed particularly prominent in the past few years, but it can be wearying how passionate people can get and think others should get about it still.Stark_Dawning said:I don't think Maggie's reputation will pass the test of time as well as I once thought. I know of ardent admirers of her back then who now express reservations or downright hostility. Yes, she dragged Britain from the mire of the 1970s, but that seems increasingly like a battle of its time. Pointing to an enduring legacy is more difficult.
0 -
The two other two.ydoethur said:
What did we used to blame for our errors before we had auto-correct?TheScreamingEagles said:
I woke up at 5am on Saturday, went to bed at 3.30am this morning and met the EDL yesterday, I'm a bit tired and I can blame auto-correct.ydoethur said:
Ugh, Mr Eagles.TheScreamingEagles said:
Part three is out this evening and like the two other two it is amazing.viewcode said:@corporeal
When I said I was looking forward to your next article, I didn't realise it would be so fast! Thank you!
You need to get Grammarly...
As for its relative awesomeness, can we please decide this by AV?
0 -
It amuses me more than it bothers me.Peter_the_Punter said:
They were certainly quick to pick up the scent, Sean. I guess that bothers you more than me, but that they were is indisputable.Sean_F said:
Mr. and Mrs. Blair were like truffle hounds, in their pursuit of the fruits of office.CarlottaVance said:
Do you understand the meaning of 'venal'?justin124 said:
She was the worst - and by far the most venal - in my lifetime.Sean_F said:
Thatcher, for me.Peter_the_Punter said:
Personally I'd go for Major, although he was regularly stymied by the dysfunctional state of his Party.Yorkcity said:
True best PM in my lifetime .Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.
Thatcher was many things, but there is little to no evidence she was willing to behave in a way that is not honest or moral in exchange for money.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/venal
If anyone came closest to that it was Blair - and I don't remotely think he was.0 -
The enduring legacy is in the attitude towards the workforce and economic priorities.Stark_Dawning said:I don't think Maggie's reputation will pass the test of time as well as I once thought. I know of ardent admirers of her back then who now express reservations or downright hostility. Yes, she dragged Britain from the mire of the 1970s, but that seems increasingly like a battle of its time. Pointing to an enduring legacy is more difficult.
There's the obvious decrease of union power, but also before her there was a focus on full employment as a requirement and then controlling inflation as an aspiration. Since her controlling inflation is the requirement and high employment is an aspiration.
The "Labour isn't working" was one of the most cynically dishonest campaigns ever (and only really took off because of Dennis Healey making a fuss about it).0 -
Agreed. You cannot get huffy about one and not the other.Peter_the_Punter said:
Lol! I actually thought that was pretty funny. But then so was 'stupid woman' which would have been fairy nuff in the mouth of somebody less balls-achingly PC as Corbyn.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Punter, bit harsh for you to hold the "Calm down, dear" comment against Cameron.
0 -
I thought that until Theresa May was made bombproof within her party for a year courtesy of the ERG. Much depends on what Theresa May would do if her deal is decisively defeated. Offering it to the country for a referendum looks one of the likelier possibilities.Sean_F said:
That could happen, but to prevent Brexit, I think one needs a change of government.rottenborough said:I was beginning to wobble in my prediction that we wont in the end actually leave the EU.
Rentoul has cheered me up no end:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-referendum-final-say-leave-split-remain-a8713046.html0 -
I don't believe it to be possible, in the present climate. Ok that's my gut vs polling which, imperfect though it is, is generally better than mere gut feeling, but I just cannot believe that, for instance, Corbyn dragging his feat on second referendum support could see such a drop, resulting in the Tories, this divided, barely coherent Tory party, so far ahead.FrancisUrquhart said:Have we done this?
A new YouGov poll of 25,000 people has found that the Tories are now on 40 points - while Jeremy Corbyn's Labour are lagging behind on just 34 points.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6562311/Tories-six-point-lead-Labour-despite-Brexit-civil-war.html0 -
Mark could, apparently, do little wrong in his mothers eyes.Foxy said:
Mark Thatchers role in the al Yamamah arms deal negotiated by his mother springs to mind.CarlottaVance said:
Do you understand the meaning of 'venal'?justin124 said:
She was the worst - and by far the most venal - in my lifetime.Sean_F said:
Thatcher, for me.Peter_the_Punter said:
Personally I'd go for Major, although he was regularly stymied by the dysfunctional state of his Party.Yorkcity said:
True best PM in my lifetime .Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.
Thatcher was many things, but there is little to no evidence she was willing to behave in a way that is not honest or moral in exchange for money.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/venal
If anyone came closest to that it was Blair - and I don't remotely think he was.0 -
On topic, I’m really enjoying these articles.0
-
I think it is down to all the rich Corbynista types currently away on their ski holidays in their second home chalets.kle4 said:
I don't believe it to be possible, in the present climate. Ok that's my gut vs polling which, imperfect though it is, is generally better than mere gut feeling, but I just cannot believe that, for instance, Corbyn dragging his feat on second referendum support could see such a drop, resulting in the Tories, this divided, barely coherent Tory party, so far ahead.FrancisUrquhart said:Have we done this?
A new YouGov poll of 25,000 people has found that the Tories are now on 40 points - while Jeremy Corbyn's Labour are lagging behind on just 34 points.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6562311/Tories-six-point-lead-Labour-despite-Brexit-civil-war.html0 -
And for most of her last year in office inflation was actually higher than in Callaghan's final year.corporeal said:
The enduring legacy is in the attitude towards the workforce and economic priorities.Stark_Dawning said:I don't think Maggie's reputation will pass the test of time as well as I once thought. I know of ardent admirers of her back then who now express reservations or downright hostility. Yes, she dragged Britain from the mire of the 1970s, but that seems increasingly like a battle of its time. Pointing to an enduring legacy is more difficult.
There's the obvious decrease of union power, but also before her there was a focus on full employment as a requirement and then controlling inflation as an aspiration. Since her controlling inflation is the requirement and high employment is an aspiration.
The "Labour isn't working" was one of the most cynically dishonest campaigns ever (and only really took off because of Dennis Healey making a fuss about it).0 -
Waiting for the tables to be available to dig through.FrancisUrquhart said:Have we done this?
A new YouGov poll of 25,000 people has found that the Tories are now on 40 points - while Jeremy Corbyn's Labour are lagging behind on just 34 points.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6562311/Tories-six-point-lead-Labour-despite-Brexit-civil-war.html
And also to file a complaint about the timing.0 -
Interesting light shed on both those, Stark, in Andrew Rawnesly's excellent book The End Of The Party.OldKingCole said:
I know I posted that Blair made one mistake but in fact there were two significant ones. Iraq, of course, and why he backed Bush, God alone knows. However his other was hanging on and making Brown wait. If it hadn't been for Iraq, of course, Brown might have led the party into the 2005 election.Stark_Dawning said:
I wonder how much 2005 was actually Gordon's election. Amazing to think that at the time many regarded Tony's premiership as merely a kind of warm-up act - preparation for the golden age of Brown that was to come.SandyRentool said:
Let's not forget that Blair won a majority AFTER Iraq. Looking back, that result is more remarkable than the two landslides.Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.
Blair and Clinton were very close. When Bush was elected, Clinton warned Blair that you could only be for or against him - nothing in the middle. Blair decided (disastrously) that he had to be for.
Blair once asked Alex Ferguson what he would do with a star player who would not support the Manager, or play for the Team. Fergy said get rid of him. Blair asked 'what if you can't'. 'Then you have a problem', the great man replied.
Now I wonder who Blair had in mind?0 -
And a lot wrong in everyone else's?OldKingCole said:
Mark could, apparently, do little wrong in his mothers eyes.Foxy said:
Mark Thatchers role in the al Yamamah arms deal negotiated by his mother springs to mind.CarlottaVance said:
Do you understand the meaning of 'venal'?justin124 said:
She was the worst - and by far the most venal - in my lifetime.Sean_F said:
Thatcher, for me.Peter_the_Punter said:
Personally I'd go for Major, although he was regularly stymied by the dysfunctional state of his Party.Yorkcity said:
True best PM in my lifetime .Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.
Thatcher was many things, but there is little to no evidence she was willing to behave in a way that is not honest or moral in exchange for money.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/venal
If anyone came closest to that it was Blair - and I don't remotely think he was.
And a lot wrong behind her back?
or maybe:
And little right etc etc.
There's a quip in there somewhere.0 -
A referendum would require Article 50 to be extended, which requires the unanimous consent of the 27 EU countries.AlastairMeeks said:
I thought that until Theresa May was made bombproof within her party for a year courtesy of the ERG. Much depends on what Theresa May would do if her deal is decisively defeated. Offering it to the country for a referendum looks one of the likelier possibilities.Sean_F said:
That could happen, but to prevent Brexit, I think one needs a change of government.rottenborough said:I was beginning to wobble in my prediction that we wont in the end actually leave the EU.
Rentoul has cheered me up no end:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-referendum-final-say-leave-split-remain-a8713046.html
What would they want in return? Wouldn't they want a clear choice on the Referendum question e.g. Remain or the Deal, No Deal being the default option if there is no referendum?
One of the ironies of Taking Back Control is that we will, probably more than ever, need the consent of others for whatever it is that we finally decide we want to do.
0 -
Bank Holiday polling is not reliable. Moreover, this was carried out over a two week period - three or four times as extended a period than is normal.kle4 said:
I don't believe it to be possible, in the present climate. Ok that's my gut vs polling which, imperfect though it is, is generally better than mere gut feeling, but I just cannot believe that, for instance, Corbyn dragging his feat on second referendum support could see such a drop, resulting in the Tories, this divided, barely coherent Tory party, so far ahead.FrancisUrquhart said:Have we done this?
A new YouGov poll of 25,000 people has found that the Tories are now on 40 points - while Jeremy Corbyn's Labour are lagging behind on just 34 points.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6562311/Tories-six-point-lead-Labour-despite-Brexit-civil-war.html0 -
It's YouGov, they had us 5 points behind on their poll before the last one whilst others have us level or ahead. Doesn't mean YouGov is wrong but they are an outlier and have been the best Tory worst Labour pollster for a while.kle4 said:
I don't believe it to be possible, in the present climate. Ok that's my gut vs polling which, imperfect though it is, is generally better than mere gut feeling, but I just cannot believe that, for instance, Corbyn dragging his feat on second referendum support could see such a drop, resulting in the Tories, this divided, barely coherent Tory party, so far ahead.FrancisUrquhart said:Have we done this?
A new YouGov poll of 25,000 people has found that the Tories are now on 40 points - while Jeremy Corbyn's Labour are lagging behind on just 34 points.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6562311/Tories-six-point-lead-Labour-despite-Brexit-civil-war.html
Edit: Also to say enjoying the articles!0 -
Best PMs? Too easy to be subjective. How about including potential PMs? I'd go for a piss-pot rather than a teetotaller every time. Churchill achieved his war aims, and Charlie Kennedy had his head screwed on when sober.
I'd eliminate the Greens as well - too many vegans and other assorted weirdos. Juncker and George Brown perhaps a bit to keen on the bottle, but you'd need to be pissed to do the job.0 -
A poll of Tory Party members by Queen Mary University, London, and Sussex University for their Party Members' Project finds Boris Johnson Tory members preferred candidate to succeed May on 20%. Rees-Mogg is second on 15%, Davis third on 8%. Javid was the only former Remainer in the top 5
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/05/labour-faces-mass-challenge-over-brexit-policy-second-referendum0 -
How the UK joined the dots from Salisbury Novichok attack to Vladimir Putin
The Russian intelligence agency behind the Salisbury nerve agent attack has been dismantled in the UK and will remain out of action for years to come, according to government sources.
The threat posed by the GRU, which carried out the attempted assassination of Skripal last March, has been severely curtailed as a result of the counter-terror investigation that exposed the agents who carried out the attack.
Separate sources have told The Telegraph that details of the plot have been well established, including the chain of command...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/06/uk-joined-dots-salisbury-novichok-attack-vladimir-putin/
Seamus and Jezza still aren't convinced and require more evidence.0 -
If I have understood the parliamentary calendar correctly for next week, it looks like the debate on the WA will not start until Wednesday afternoon, after PMQs.
https://calendar.parliament.uk/calendar/Commons/All/2019/1/9/Daily
Why the rush? - there's still nearly 12 weeks to go after all.0 -
Jaap Stam, David Beckham or Christiano Ronaldo?Peter_the_Punter said:
Interesting light shed on both those, Stark, in Andrew Rawnesly's excellent book The End Of The Party.OldKingCole said:
I know I posted that Blair made one mistake but in fact there were two significant ones. Iraq, of course, and why he backed Bush, God alone knows. However his other was hanging on and making Brown wait. If it hadn't been for Iraq, of course, Brown might have led the party into the 2005 election.Stark_Dawning said:
I wonder how much 2005 was actually Gordon's election. Amazing to think that at the time many regarded Tony's premiership as merely a kind of warm-up act - preparation for the golden age of Brown that was to come.SandyRentool said:
Let's not forget that Blair won a majority AFTER Iraq. Looking back, that result is more remarkable than the two landslides.Peter_the_Punter said:
If you could ignore Iraq - and that is some caveat - he was actually a pretty decent PM.Stark_Dawning said:
No, there will never be another Tone. The stars aligned amazingly in his favour:kinabalu said:It is fascinating, isn't it? Blair, what a phenom. A politician with sustained popularity ratings equal to that of apple crumble and custard on a winter's afternoon. Amazing. Will we ever see the like again?
End of an unprecedentedly long, yet often divisive, era of Tory rule.
Tories rancorous and divided over Maggie's ousting.
Tories dubious about or downright hostile to her wishy washy replacement.
Sexual and financial Tory sleaze (real or imagined) all around.
Tory MPs popping off at regular intervals, providing lots of juicy by-elections to feed the narrative.
The dramatic calamity of Black Wednesday.
A feverishly hostile press consumed with blood lust.
A government with a tiny, or non-existent, majority held to ransom by fringe euro-sceptic fanatics.
The British Left in retreat, allowing Tone to concentrate fully on his right flank.
Blair and Clinton were very close. When Bush was elected, Clinton warned Blair that you could only be for or against him - nothing in the middle. Blair decided (disastrously) that he had to be for.
Blair once asked Alex Ferguson what he would do with a star player who would not support the Manager, or play for the Team. Fergy said get rid of him. Blair asked 'what if you can't'. 'Then you have a problem', the great man replied.
Now I wonder who Blair had in mind?
The class difference between Ferguson and Blair is immense. The former was prepared to sell title winning legends. The latter wasn't willing to sack a disgruntled Chancellor while the PM had a landslide majority.0
This discussion has been closed.