politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New polling finds just 28% of GE2017 LAB voters support the pa

ydoethur said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Cyclefree said:

NickPalmer said:

Cookie said:

kinabalu said:

Cookie said:

+1. I grew up in Denmark where women largely agreed with what you say, and found the whole rigmarole that they observed in France and Britain completely perplexing. The more political ones also found it repellent in terms of accepting a sexist role - "Why should women make a special effort to dress to please men when men don't do the same?".

I've come to feel relaxed about it - if people want to make an effort to look good and feel happy in the results, why not? But I also think it's largely done for personal and peer satisfaction, in the same way as some men like to cultivate a finely-trimmed beard. The exception is hairstyle, which I think does make a major difference to how people look for both sexes and is worth taking time to consider what you want.

Ah yes, hair.

How many women dye their hair? And why?

Well, ask yourself this: if you were dating, would you choose a woman who had silver hair - however gorgeous and well kept and well cut - and however lovely her face, however engaging her personality, blah blah?

And be honest in your answers.

Men may not look at make up or what women wear or even their shoes (though I am sceptical - or perhaps it is just the men I know) but they do look at women's hair. And silver hair - even if you went silver in your 30's - means "old" and no man (or very few of them) want old or older women.

I will put my cards on the table. I have silver hair - gorgeous it is. But I am unique among my peers. And it - to some extent - helped in my job. Looking older and experienced and wise and like someone's mother and, if necessary, like a witch was very useful when interrogating some over-entitled overpaid toerag.

But pretty much every senior woman I have ever encountered, plenty of them older than me, did the opposite to me. If women care about their appearance, it's because they are often judged on their appearance - even in contexts where this should not matter and even when working with men who claim to be above such superficial issues.

I will put my cards on the table - I am 43 and still single

I am 36 shortly and still a merry bachelor.

It used to be a 'gay bachelor' but that led to one or two embarrassing misunderstandings...

bigjohnowls said:

In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.

Thank fook for that.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

viewcode said:

malcolmg said:

I rarely use trains or any other public transport, if it cannot support itself then I say tough.

Off the top of my head, I spend approx 8-10% of my waking life on them. I f*****g hate trains...

I f***ing love trains, man!

Apart from oddities running at weekends only (like Brigg, Reddish South, Okehampton etc.) I just need 12 journeys, all in Scotland, to complete the UK National Network!

Ayr to Stranraer
Falkirk to Perth to Inverness
Croy to Alloa
Cardenden Loop
Leuchars to Dundee
Ladybank to Perth
Perth to Aberdeen
Aberdeen to Inverness
Craigendoran to Oban
Crianlarich to Mallaig
Inverness to Kyle
Dingwall to Thurso and Wick

Jonathan said:

bigjohnowls said:

In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.

Thank fook for that.

Holy shit, good news. Forgotten what that looks like. Well done. Hope for the rest of us.

Currently wrestling with

Mother in hospital with acute Leukaemia (doing well, but starting second chemo today)
Father in different hospital 100m away with broken collar bone and dementia (v grumpy)
Wife in wheelchair with MS and/or spinal fracture, back from hospital today. Diagnosis looming.
Slipped disc in neck (v. minor, but a pain in the neck today )
Two teenage boys (lovely, but pain in neck) currently in car park outside rugby club.

Fortunately politics offers some respite from real life.

FF43 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/chrisgreybrexit/status/1080424045190021121

People focus on the economic effect of Brexit and underestimate its debilitating effect on politics and diplomacy. Brexit is the exact opposite of taking control. It means abdicating any effective opinion on what we want. If in practice you always go along with what others have already decided, you stop discussing the issues because there is no point arguing about things you can't influence.

ydoethur said:

Jonathan said:

bigjohnowls said:

In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.

Thank fook for that.

Holy shit, good news. Forgotten what that looks like. Well done. Hope for the rest of us.

Currently wrestling with

Mother in hospital with acute Leukaemia (doing well, but starting second chemo today)
Father in different hospital 100m away with broken collar bone and dementia (v grumpy)
Wife in wheelchair with MS and/or spinal fracture, back from hospital today. Diagnosis looming.
Slipped disc in neck (v. minor, but a pain in the neck today )
Two teenage boys (lovely, but pain in neck) currently in car park outside rugby club.

Fortunately politics offers some respite from real life.

Bloody hell, Jonathan, you really are going through it. Kind of puts other troubles in perspective.

Best wishes and best of luck.

Jonathan said:

bigjohnowls said:

In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.

Thank fook for that.

Holy shit, good news. Forgotten what that looks like. Well done. Hope for the rest of us.

Currently wrestling with

Mother in hospital with acute Leukaemia (doing well, but starting second chemo today)
Father in different hospital 100m away with broken collar bone and dementia (v grumpy)
Wife in wheelchair with MS and/or spinal fracture, back from hospital today. Diagnosis looming.
Slipped disc in neck (v. minor, but a pain in the neck today )
Two teenage boys (lovely, but pain in neck) currently in car park outside rugby club.

Fortunately politics offers some respite from real life.

HYUFD said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

After a bit of fiddling I have put together a UNS table for the Canadian Federal election and can tell you that the most recent poll translates to:

Liberals 165 seats (-19)
Conservative 124 seats (+25)
NPD 37 seats (-7)
Green 1 seats (+0)
BQ 11 seats (+1)

Whereas the best poll for the Conservatives produces:

Liberals 140 seats (-44)
Conservative 143 seats (+44)
NPD 40 seats (-4)
Green 1 seats (+0)
BQ 14 seats (+4)


Note that the new PPC is not modelled and the modelling of the BQ is not great.

Either way looks like Trudeau could lose his majority but is still likely to have the numbers for a Liberal minority government if needed, no other parties will do a deal with the Conservatives

ydoethur said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

ydoethur said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

ydoethur said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

viewcode said:

malcolmg said:

I rarely use trains or any other public transport, if it cannot support itself then I say tough.

Off the top of my head, I spend approx 8-10% of my waking life on them. I f*****g hate trains...

I f***ing love trains, man!

Apart from oddities running at weekends only (like Brigg, Reddish South, Okehampton etc.) I just need 12 journeys, all in Scotland, to complete the UK National Network!

Ayr to Stranraer
Falkirk to Perth to Inverness
Croy to Alloa
Cardenden Loop
Leuchars to Dundee
Ladybank to Perth
Perth to Aberdeen
Aberdeen to Inverness
Craigendoran to Oban
Crianlarich to Mallaig
Inverness to Kyle
Dingwall to Thurso and Wick

Interesting to reflect I've done all of those, except the line from Aberdeen to Elgin.

Aberdeen to Inverness goes through Elgin

I know. I've done Inverness to Elgin, but not on from there to Aberdeen.

Hope you popped down to my wifes home town of Lossiemouth while in Elgin. Beautiful beaches, championship golf course, harbour with fishing museum featuring lots of my wifes family, RAF Lossiemoth defending us from the Russians and fabulous views over the Firth

I'm afraid not, sadly. It's a place I wanted to visit, but didn't have time to on that occasion. All the area east of Inverness was very lovely though, I hope to spend more time exploring it this summer.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

After a bit of fiddling I have put together a UNS table for the Canadian Federal election and can tell you that the most recent poll translates to:

Liberals 165 seats (-19)
Conservative 124 seats (+25)
NPD 37 seats (-7)
Green 1 seats (+0)
BQ 11 seats (+1)

Whereas the best poll for the Conservatives produces:

Liberals 140 seats (-44)
Conservative 143 seats (+44)
NPD 40 seats (-4)
Green 1 seats (+0)
BQ 14 seats (+4)


Note that the new PPC is not modelled and the modelling of the BQ is not great.

Either way looks like Trudeau could lose his majority but is still likely to have the numbers for a Liberal minority government if needed, no other parties will do a deal with the Conservatives

My eldest who lives in Vancouver thinks Trudeau is over

Jonathan said:

bigjohnowls said:

In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.

Thank fook for that.

Holy shit, good news. Forgotten what that looks like. Well done. Hope for the rest of us.

Currently wrestling with

Mother in hospital with acute Leukaemia (doing well, but starting second chemo today)
Father in different hospital 100m away with broken collar bone and dementia (v grumpy)
Wife in wheelchair with MS and/or spinal fracture, back from hospital today. Diagnosis looming.
Slipped disc in neck (v. minor, but a pain in the neck today )
Two teenage boys (lovely, but pain in neck) currently in car park outside rugby club.

Fortunately politics offers some respite from real life.

Jonathan said:

Thanks for kind words. Just real life biting hard all at once. If I’ve been a bit grumpy recently that’s why. PB is a nice place to escape. But Brexit politics isn’t hugely relaxing. Grrrr.

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

After a bit of fiddling I have put together a UNS table for the Canadian Federal election and can tell you that the most recent poll translates to:

Liberals 165 seats (-19)
Conservative 124 seats (+25)
NPD 37 seats (-7)
Green 1 seats (+0)
BQ 11 seats (+1)

Whereas the best poll for the Conservatives produces:

Liberals 140 seats (-44)
Conservative 143 seats (+44)
NPD 40 seats (-4)
Green 1 seats (+0)
BQ 14 seats (+4)


Note that the new PPC is not modelled and the modelling of the BQ is not great.

Either way looks like Trudeau could lose his majority but is still likely to have the numbers for a Liberal minority government if needed, no other parties will do a deal with the Conservatives

My eldest who lives in Vancouver thinks Trudeau is over

He is not as popular as 2015 but then Scheer is not that great an alternative either.


I expect a repeat of the 2012 US election when Obama's ratings were down but he still beat Obama, Trudeau will be re elected but with a lower majority and less enthusiasm than the last election

TheWhiteRabbit said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

After a bit of fiddling I have put together a UNS table for the Canadian Federal election and can tell you that the most recent poll translates to:

Liberals 165 seats (-19)
Conservative 124 seats (+25)
NPD 37 seats (-7)
Green 1 seats (+0)
BQ 11 seats (+1)

Whereas the best poll for the Conservatives produces:

Liberals 140 seats (-44)
Conservative 143 seats (+44)
NPD 40 seats (-4)
Green 1 seats (+0)
BQ 14 seats (+4)


Note that the new PPC is not modelled and the modelling of the BQ is not great.

Either way looks like Trudeau could lose his majority but is still likely to have the numbers for a Liberal minority government if needed, no other parties will do a deal with the Conservatives

My eldest who lives in Vancouver thinks Trudeau is over

He is not as popular as 2015 but then Scheer is not that great an alternative either.


I expect a repeat of the 2012 US election when Obama's ratings were down but he still beat Obama, Trudeau will be re elected but with a lower majority and less enthusiasm than the last election

The result could of course mean a Lib-led government under someone else.

kle4 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

After a bit of fiddling I have put together a UNS table for the Canadian Federal election and can tell you that the most recent poll translates to:

Liberals 165 seats (-19)
Conservative 124 seats (+25)
NPD 37 seats (-7)
Green 1 seats (+0)
BQ 11 seats (+1)

Whereas the best poll for the Conservatives produces:

Liberals 140 seats (-44)
Conservative 143 seats (+44)
NPD 40 seats (-4)
Green 1 seats (+0)
BQ 14 seats (+4)


Note that the new PPC is not modelled and the modelling of the BQ is not great.

Either way looks like Trudeau could lose his majority but is still likely to have the numbers for a Liberal minority government if needed, no other parties will do a deal with the Conservatives

My eldest who lives in Vancouver thinks Trudeau is over

Has the luster worn off him? It can be hard to tell as, in ways similar to Macron, because Trudeau is a bit of a liberal darling if you only casually pay attention you'd only ever hear positive things (though with the recent protests that might not be true of Macron's image any longer)

Jonathan said:

Thanks for kind words. Just real life biting hard all at once. If I’ve been a bit grumpy recently that’s why. PB is a nice place to escape. But Brexit politics isn’t hugely relaxing. Grrrr.

Dura_Ace said:

CD13 said:

Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

My ex-CO once had to perform emergency topiary on a Manila bar girl while she stood over the bin in his hotel room. Such was the thicket that faced the intrepid explorer.

TheJezziah said:

I can't imagine many of the pubic hair fans would prefer women with leg hair or facial hair.

Obviously it is another difference again but if you prefer women not to have hair in several places where it does (or can) grow naturally then it really isn't that much of a jump to see why they some people might not want it in other places as well.

Foxy said:

CD13 said:

Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.

Jonathan said:

Thanks for kind words. Just real life biting hard all at once. If I’ve been a bit grumpy recently that’s why. PB is a nice place to escape. But Brexit politics isn’t hugely relaxing. Grrrr.

Foxy said:

TheJezziah said:

I can't imagine many of the pubic hair fans would prefer women with leg hair or facial hair.

Obviously it is another difference again but if you prefer women not to have hair in several places where it does (or can) grow naturally then it really isn't that much of a jump to see why they some people might not want it in other places as well.

True enough, I remember how horrified some friends of mine were in the eighties when Nena (of 99 Red baloons fame) showed off her hairy armpits on TOTP.

As a bit of a hippy, I have always been happy with the hirsute though.

TheJezziah said:

I can't imagine many of the pubic hair fans would prefer women with leg hair or facial hair.

Obviously it is another difference again but if you prefer women not to have hair in several places where it does (or can) grow naturally then it really isn't that much of a jump to see why they some people might not want it in other places as well.

Sean_F said:

TheJezziah said:

I can't imagine many of the pubic hair fans would prefer women with leg hair or facial hair.

Obviously it is another difference again but if you prefer women not to have hair in several places where it does (or can) grow naturally then it really isn't that much of a jump to see why they some people might not want it in other places as well.

Facial hair, no, as it would be too much like being attracted to another man.

Leg hair is okay, so long as it's not too vigorous.

kyf_100 said:

Indeed. Without wishing to go into detail on a family friendly forum, I think porn has absolutely destroyed the young. I am just about old enough that as a teenager for me porn was a furtive copy of Playboy or perhaps a well thumbed Razzle shared between friends. We knew it bore no relationship to real life. Today's teens have access to infinite amounts of hardcore in HD, any time, any where, on their phones.

It's a contradiction for me because I'm hugely against the porno ban / wanking license / drive to teach every teenager how to use a VPN that the government seem hell bent on pressing ahead with, because on principle I abhor censorship of any kind and think it sets a dangerous precedent.

On the other hand, porn is corrupting minds and - more importantly - hearts. People today expect their sex to look like porn and it is deeply damaging as most of us are not and do not want to be pornstars.

Despite being draconian and illiberal, the government has a point. But I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done.

anothernick said:

kyf_100 said:

Foxy said:

Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.

Indeed. Without wishing to go into detail on a family friendly forum, I think porn has absolutely destroyed the young. I am just about old enough that as a teenager for me porn was a furtive copy of Playboy or perhaps a well thumbed Razzle shared between friends. We knew it bore no relationship to real life. Today's teens have access to infinte amounts of hardcore in HD, any time, any where, on their phones.

It's a contradiction for me because I'm hugely against the porno ban / wanking license / drive to teach every teenager how to use a VPN that the government seem hell bent on pressing ahead with, because on principle I abhor censorship of any kind and think it sets a dangerous precedent.

On the other hand, porn is corrupting minds and - more importantly - hearts. People today expect their sex to look like porn and it is deeply damaging as most of us are not and do not want to be pornstars.

Despite being draconian and illiberal, the government has a point. But I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done.

I don't agree. These sentiments remind me of the Mary Whitehouse and Lord Longford campaigns of the 1960s and 1970s which set themselves up as Canute-like opponents of the sexual freedoms brought about by the pill and the changing social climate of the time. These changes are now mainstream and the societal doom and disaster predicted have not materialised. Attempts to turn back the clock, widely supported in the rightwing press, the Churches and the Tory Party, were probably the least successful public campaign in modern times. The same applies to internet porn, it is out there, the genie cannot be put back in the bottle and we have to teach people how to approach and interpret it, not try to ban it. I don't think most people feel disappointed if they can't imitate everything they can see on the internet, some do perhaps but no doubt they would have felt disappointed if they did not imitate everything they saw in the top shelf magazines of our youth or heard about in whispered conversations behind the bikesheds.

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

After a bit of fiddling I have put together a UNS table for the Canadian Federal election and can tell you that the most recent poll translates to:

Liberals 165 seats (-19)
Conservative 124 seats (+25)
NPD 37 seats (-7)
Green 1 seats (+0)
BQ 11 seats (+1)

Whereas the best poll for the Conservatives produces:

Liberals 140 seats (-44)
Conservative 143 seats (+44)
NPD 40 seats (-4)
Green 1 seats (+0)
BQ 14 seats (+4)


Note that the new PPC is not modelled and the modelling of the BQ is not great.

Either way looks like Trudeau could lose his majority but is still likely to have the numbers for a Liberal minority government if needed, no other parties will do a deal with the Conservatives

My eldest who lives in Vancouver thinks Trudeau is over

He is not as popular as 2015 but then Scheer is not that great an alternative either.


I expect a repeat of the 2012 US election when Obama's ratings were down but he still beat Obama, Trudeau will be re elected but with a lower majority and less enthusiasm than the last election

kle4 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

After a bit of fiddling I have put together a UNS table for the Canadian Federal election and can tell you that the most recent poll translates to:

Liberals 165 seats (-19)
Conservative 124 seats (+25)
NPD 37 seats (-7)
Green 1 seats (+0)
BQ 11 seats (+1)

Whereas the best poll for the Conservatives produces:

Liberals 140 seats (-44)
Conservative 143 seats (+44)
NPD 40 seats (-4)
Green 1 seats (+0)
BQ 14 seats (+4)


Note that the new PPC is not modelled and the modelling of the BQ is not great.

Either way looks like Trudeau could lose his majority but is still likely to have the numbers for a Liberal minority government if needed, no other parties will do a deal with the Conservatives

My eldest who lives in Vancouver thinks Trudeau is over

Has the luster worn off him? It can be hard to tell as, in ways similar to Macron, because Trudeau is a bit of a liberal darling if you only casually pay attention you'd only ever hear positive things (though with the recent protests that might not be true of Macron's image any longer)

kinabalu said:

kyf_100 said:

Indeed. Without wishing to go into detail on a family friendly forum, I think porn has absolutely destroyed the young. I am just about old enough that as a teenager for me porn was a furtive copy of Playboy or perhaps a well thumbed Razzle shared between friends. We knew it bore no relationship to real life. Today's teens have access to infinite amounts of hardcore in HD, any time, any where, on their phones.

It's a contradiction for me because I'm hugely against the porno ban / wanking license / drive to teach every teenager how to use a VPN that the government seem hell bent on pressing ahead with, because on principle I abhor censorship of any kind and think it sets a dangerous precedent.

On the other hand, porn is corrupting minds and - more importantly - hearts. People today expect their sex to look like porn and it is deeply damaging as most of us are not and do not want to be pornstars.

Despite being draconian and illiberal, the government has a point. But I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done.

Has absolutely destroyed the young? That does not ring true to me.

Do you see much evidence for that?

Or have you deduced that it must be true because (i) porn is all over and (ii) young people are impressionable?

Sean_F said:

The things that take place in hardcore porn seem painful, rather than enjoyable.

williamglenn said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Greggs twitter account absolutely smashing it.

https://twitter.com/GreggsOfficial/status/1080527865467322369

Piers Morgan seems to have deleted the tweet they were replying to.

williamglenn said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Greggs twitter account absolutely smashing it.

https://twitter.com/GreggsOfficial/status/1080527865467322369

Piers Morgan seems to have deleted the tweet they were replying to.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Seems to be going pear shaped for him

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

CD13 said:

Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.

Personally I have always felt it had more than a touch of pedophilia about. Really distasteful.

ydoethur said:

williamglenn said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Greggs twitter account absolutely smashing it.

https://twitter.com/GreggsOfficial/status/1080527865467322369

Piers Morgan seems to have deleted the tweet they were replying to.

No, we can still see what he was getting upright over:
http://www.twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1080526060507283456 He also replied to their

kyf_100 said:

kinabalu said:

kyf_100 said:

Indeed. Without wishing to go into detail on a family friendly forum, I think porn has absolutely destroyed the young. I am just about old enough that as a teenager for me porn was a furtive copy of Playboy or perhaps a well thumbed Razzle shared between friends. We knew it bore no relationship to real life. Today's teens have access to infinite amounts of hardcore in HD, any time, any where, on their phones.

It's a contradiction for me because I'm hugely against the porno ban / wanking license / drive to teach every teenager how to use a VPN that the government seem hell bent on pressing ahead with, because on principle I abhor censorship of any kind and think it sets a dangerous precedent.

On the other hand, porn is corrupting minds and - more importantly - hearts. People today expect their sex to look like porn and it is deeply damaging as most of us are not and do not want to be pornstars.

Despite being draconian and illiberal, the government has a point. But I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done.

Has absolutely destroyed the young? That does not ring true to me.

Do you see much evidence for that?

Or have you deduced that it must be true because (i) porn is all over and (ii) young people are impressionable?

See the link I posted in reply to Anothernick, below.

Benpointer said:

NickPalmer said:

Sympathies, Jonathan - that sounds awful. I find the forum a relaxed place to escape from stresses at times: there is a lot to be said for being among peolple who are friendly but not immediately proximate - close friends and family want to talk about the problems, we just want to talk about...er..pubic hair today, apparently. Who knows what will take our fancy tomorrow and distract us further?

Sympathies from me also @Jonathan - that sounds like a far larger group of troubles than anyone should be having to put up with. I hope you see a few resolve themselves quickly in positive ways.

Re PB tonight: Shoes, pubic hair and vegan sausage rolls ?! Any chance we can just go back to Brexit?

stodge said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Seems to be going pear shaped for him

Isn't that true though of all politicians especially in democratic free societies?

The sense of novelty, of youth, of "something different" naturally wears off when you see them every day. and they face the same problems as their predecessors and the reality dawns they have the same lack of answers.

ydoethur said:

Benpointer said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

CD13 said:

Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.

Personally I have always felt it had more than a touch of pedophilia about. Really distasteful.

Yes - absolutely agree. Something rather creepy about it.

It's not modern though. There is a wonderful passage in Ousamah ibn-MUnqidh's Memoirs where a Frank gets his pubes shaved, Arab fashion, by a man at the baths. He's so pleased with the effect he drags this man to his house, orders his wife to strip and gets her pudendum shaved as well. Ousamah, not surprisingly, was rather bemused by this second action!

And that was in twelfth century Jerusalem!

kle4 said:

stodge said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Seems to be going pear shaped for him

Isn't that true though of all politicians especially in democratic free societies?

The sense of novelty, of youth, of "something different" naturally wears off when you see them every day. and they face the same problems as their predecessors and the reality dawns they have the same lack of answers.

It's why I find the optimistic adoration of certain people, parties or ideologies to be simultaneously baffling, endearing and frustrating. I have never experienced such inspiration toward a person, party or idea but I can see the appeal, how those more passionate and idealistic can probably achieve things I never could with such a cynical take on things, but I just cannot understand, in our modern democratic societies, how people can come to seemingly love certain individuals on sometimes very limited evidence, not even the truth of who someone is but the myth. Granted, the same thing does work in reverse for hatred of certain people, parties and ideologies.

rpjs said:

ydoethur said:

Benpointer said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

CD13 said:

Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.

Personally I have always felt it had more than a touch of pedophilia about. Really distasteful.

Yes - absolutely agree. Something rather creepy about it.

It's not modern though. There is a wonderful passage in Ousamah ibn-MUnqidh's Memoirs where a Frank gets his pubes shaved, Arab fashion, by a man at the baths. He's so pleased with the effect he drags this man to his house, orders his wife to strip and gets her pudendum shaved as well. Ousamah, not surprisingly, was rather bemused by this second action!

And that was in twelfth century Jerusalem!

I think observant Muslims are requires to shave their body hair, including armpits and pubes. Probably sensible in the context of the desert-living early Muslims.

Benpointer said:

kle4 said:

stodge said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Seems to be going pear shaped for him

Isn't that true though of all politicians especially in democratic free societies?

The sense of novelty, of youth, of "something different" naturally wears off when you see them every day. and they face the same problems as their predecessors and the reality dawns they have the same lack of answers.

It's why I find the optimistic adoration of certain people, parties or ideologies to be simultaneously baffling, endearing and frustrating. I have never experienced such inspiration toward a person, party or idea but I can see the appeal, how those more passionate and idealistic can probably achieve things I never could with such a cynical take on things, but I just cannot understand, in our modern democratic societies, how people can come to seemingly love certain individuals on sometimes very limited evidence, not even the truth of who someone is but the myth. Granted, the same thing does work in reverse for hatred of certain people, parties and ideologies.

How 1930s Germany fell for Hitler is a mystery to me.

And yet, much as each of us probably likes to think we'd have resisted the rise of Nazisim if we'd been there, we can never really know can we?

rpjs said:

ydoethur said:

Benpointer said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

CD13 said:

Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.

Personally I have always felt it had more than a touch of pedophilia about. Really distasteful.

Yes - absolutely agree. Something rather creepy about it.

It's not modern though. There is a wonderful passage in Ousamah ibn-MUnqidh's Memoirs where a Frank gets his pubes shaved, Arab fashion, by a man at the baths. He's so pleased with the effect he drags this man to his house, orders his wife to strip and gets her pudendum shaved as well. Ousamah, not surprisingly, was rather bemused by this second action!

And that was in twelfth century Jerusalem!

I think observant Muslims are requires to shave their body hair, including armpits and pubes. Probably sensible in the context of the desert-living early Muslims.

ydoethur said:

Benpointer said:

ydoethur said:

Benpointer said:

Re PB tonight: Shoes, pubic hair and vegan sausage rolls ?! Any chance we can just go back to Brexit?

*Puts on big shouty teacher voice*

NO!

I think you'll find we will soon enough Happy to steer clear this week though.

Back on topic, am I right in thinking German women tend not to shave their armpits - or is that way out of date now?

Wouldn't know, ask Nigel Farage.

Edit - oh bollocks, I've changed the conversation back myself!!!!!

Benpointer said:

NickPalmer said:

Sympathies, Jonathan - that sounds awful. I find the forum a relaxed place to escape from stresses at times: there is a lot to be said for being among peolple who are friendly but not immediately proximate - close friends and family want to talk about the problems, we just want to talk about...er..pubic hair today, apparently. Who knows what will take our fancy tomorrow and distract us further?

Re PB tonight: Shoes, pubic hair and vegan sausage rolls ?! Any chance we can just go back to Brexit?