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  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    +1. I grew up in Denmark where women largely agreed with what you say, and found the whole rigmarole that they observed in France and Britain completely perplexing. The more political ones also found it repellent in terms of accepting a sexist role - "Why should women make a special effort to dress to please men when men don't do the same?".

    I've come to feel relaxed about it - if people want to make an effort to look good and feel happy in the results, why not? But I also think it's largely done for personal and peer satisfaction, in the same way as some men like to cultivate a finely-trimmed beard. The exception is hairstyle, which I think does make a major difference to how people look for both sexes and is worth taking time to consider what you want.
    Ah yes, hair.

    How many women dye their hair? And why?

    Well, ask yourself this: if you were dating, would you choose a woman who had silver hair - however gorgeous and well kept and well cut - and however lovely her face, however engaging her personality, blah blah?

    And be honest in your answers.

    Men may not look at make up or what women wear or even their shoes (though I am sceptical - or perhaps it is just the men I know) but they do look at women's hair. And silver hair - even if you went silver in your 30's - means "old" and no man (or very few of them) want old or older women.

    I will put my cards on the table. I have silver hair - gorgeous it is. But I am unique among my peers. And it - to some extent - helped in my job. Looking older and experienced and wise and like someone's mother and, if necessary, like a witch was very useful when interrogating some over-entitled overpaid toerag.

    But pretty much every senior woman I have ever encountered, plenty of them older than me, did the opposite to me. If women care about their appearance, it's because they are often judged on their appearance - even in contexts where this should not matter and even when working with men who claim to be above such superficial issues.
    I will put my cards on the table - I am 43 and still single :)
    I am 36 shortly and still a merry bachelor.

    It used to be a 'gay bachelor' but that led to one or two embarrassing misunderstandings...
    I'm 45, have a four-year old son, and sometimes wish I was still a merry bachelor ... ;)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.

    Thank fook for that.

    Holy shit, good news. Forgotten what that looks like. Well done. Hope for the rest of us.

    Currently wrestling with

    Mother in hospital with acute Leukaemia (doing well, but starting second chemo today)
    Father in different hospital 100m away with broken collar bone and dementia (v grumpy)
    Wife in wheelchair with MS and/or spinal fracture, back from hospital today. Diagnosis looming.
    Slipped disc in neck (v. minor, but a pain in the neck today )
    Two teenage boys (lovely, but pain in neck) currently in car park outside rugby club.

    Fortunately politics offers some respite from real life.


  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,545

    In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.

    Thank fook for that.

    That's great news.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    malcolmg said:

    I rarely use trains or any other public transport, if it cannot support itself then I say tough.

    Off the top of my head, I spend approx 8-10% of my waking life on them. I f*****g hate trains... :(

    I f***ing love trains, man!

    Apart from oddities running at weekends only (like Brigg, Reddish South, Okehampton etc.) I just need 12 journeys, all in Scotland, to complete the UK National Network!

    Ayr to Stranraer
    Falkirk to Perth to Inverness
    Croy to Alloa
    Cardenden Loop
    Leuchars to Dundee
    Ladybank to Perth
    Perth to Aberdeen
    Aberdeen to Inverness
    Craigendoran to Oban
    Crianlarich to Mallaig
    Inverness to Kyle
    Dingwall to Thurso and Wick

    Interesting to reflect I've done all of those, except the line from Aberdeen to Elgin.
    Aberdeen to Inverness goes through Elgin
    I know. I've done Inverness to Elgin, but not on from there to Aberdeen.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    viewcode said:

    malcolmg said:

    I rarely use trains or any other public transport, if it cannot support itself then I say tough.

    Off the top of my head, I spend approx 8-10% of my waking life on them. I f*****g hate trains... :(

    I f***ing love trains, man!

    Apart from oddities running at weekends only (like Brigg, Reddish South, Okehampton etc.) I just need 12 journeys, all in Scotland, to complete the UK National Network!

    Ayr to Stranraer
    Falkirk to Perth to Inverness
    Croy to Alloa
    Cardenden Loop
    Leuchars to Dundee
    Ladybank to Perth
    Perth to Aberdeen
    Aberdeen to Inverness
    Craigendoran to Oban
    Crianlarich to Mallaig
    Inverness to Kyle
    Dingwall to Thurso and Wick

    Keep us posted Sunil! Happy New Year to everyone on PB.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Jonathan said:

    In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.

    Thank fook for that.

    Holy shit, good news. Forgotten what that looks like. Well done. Hope for the rest of us.

    Currently wrestling with

    Mother in hospital with acute Leukaemia (doing well, but starting second chemo today)
    Father in different hospital 100m away with broken collar bone and dementia (v grumpy)
    Wife in wheelchair with MS and/or spinal fracture, back from hospital today. Diagnosis looming.
    Slipped disc in neck (v. minor, but a pain in the neck today )
    Two teenage boys (lovely, but pain in neck) currently in car park outside rugby club.

    Fortunately politics offers some respite from real life.


    Blimey, that is a heavy load. Deepest sympathies.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    Jonathan said:

    In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.

    Thank fook for that.

    Holy shit, good news. Forgotten what that looks like. Well done. Hope for the rest of us.

    Currently wrestling with

    Mother in hospital with acute Leukaemia (doing well, but starting second chemo today)
    Father in different hospital 100m away with broken collar bone and dementia (v grumpy)
    Wife in wheelchair with MS and/or spinal fracture, back from hospital today. Diagnosis looming.
    Slipped disc in neck (v. minor, but a pain in the neck today )
    Two teenage boys (lovely, but pain in neck) currently in car park outside rugby club.

    Fortunately politics offers some respite from real life.


    Jesus: that sounds horrible. Best wishes to you all and hope matters improve.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    Jonathan said:

    In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.

    Thank fook for that.

    Holy shit, good news. Forgotten what that looks like. Well done. Hope for the rest of us.

    Currently wrestling with

    Mother in hospital with acute Leukaemia (doing well, but starting second chemo today)
    Father in different hospital 100m away with broken collar bone and dementia (v grumpy)
    Wife in wheelchair with MS and/or spinal fracture, back from hospital today. Diagnosis looming.
    Slipped disc in neck (v. minor, but a pain in the neck today )
    Two teenage boys (lovely, but pain in neck) currently in car park outside rugby club.

    Fortunately politics offers some respite from real life.
    Bloody hell, Jonathan, you really are going through it. Kind of puts other troubles in perspective.

    Best wishes and best of luck.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    FF43 said:

    People focus on the economic effect of Brexit and underestimate its debilitating effect on politics and diplomacy. Brexit is the exact opposite of taking control. It means abdicating any effective opinion on what we want. If in practice you always go along with what others have already decided, you stop discussing the issues because there is no point arguing about things you can't influence.
    Oh please, talk about women's shoes, its much more interesting.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    malcolmg said:

    I rarely use trains or any other public transport, if it cannot support itself then I say tough.

    Off the top of my head, I spend approx 8-10% of my waking life on them. I f*****g hate trains... :(

    I f***ing love trains, man!

    Apart from oddities running at weekends only (like Brigg, Reddish South, Okehampton etc.) I just need 12 journeys, all in Scotland, to complete the UK National Network!

    Ayr to Stranraer
    Falkirk to Perth to Inverness
    Croy to Alloa
    Cardenden Loop
    Leuchars to Dundee
    Ladybank to Perth
    Perth to Aberdeen
    Aberdeen to Inverness
    Craigendoran to Oban
    Crianlarich to Mallaig
    Inverness to Kyle
    Dingwall to Thurso and Wick

    Interesting to reflect I've done all of those, except the line from Aberdeen to Elgin.
    Aberdeen to Inverness goes through Elgin
    I know. I've done Inverness to Elgin, but not on from there to Aberdeen.
    Hope you popped down to my wifes home town of Lossiemouth while in Elgin. Beautiful beaches, championship golf course, harbour with fishing museum featuring lots of my wifes family, RAF Lossiemoth defending us from the Russians and fabulous views over the Firth
  • ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.

    Thank fook for that.

    Holy shit, good news. Forgotten what that looks like. Well done. Hope for the rest of us.

    Currently wrestling with

    Mother in hospital with acute Leukaemia (doing well, but starting second chemo today)
    Father in different hospital 100m away with broken collar bone and dementia (v grumpy)
    Wife in wheelchair with MS and/or spinal fracture, back from hospital today. Diagnosis looming.
    Slipped disc in neck (v. minor, but a pain in the neck today )
    Two teenage boys (lovely, but pain in neck) currently in car park outside rugby club.

    Fortunately politics offers some respite from real life.
    Bloody hell, Jonathan, you really are going through it. Kind of puts other troubles in perspective.

    Best wishes and best of luck.
    Absolutely
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    After a bit of fiddling I have put together a UNS table for the Canadian Federal election and can tell you that the most recent poll translates to:

    Liberals 165 seats (-19)
    Conservative 124 seats (+25)
    NPD 37 seats (-7)
    Green 1 seats (+0)
    BQ 11 seats (+1)

    Whereas the best poll for the Conservatives produces:

    Liberals 140 seats (-44)
    Conservative 143 seats (+44)
    NPD 40 seats (-4)
    Green 1 seats (+0)
    BQ 14 seats (+4)


    Note that the new PPC is not modelled and the modelling of the BQ is not great.

    Either way looks like Trudeau could lose his majority but is still likely to have the numbers for a Liberal minority government if needed, no other parties will do a deal with the Conservatives
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    I know we are spared a few more days of Parliament and its inability to decide on what to do but this is a useful primer on the options there from the EU side of things

    https://twitter.com/akulith/status/1080460889839595522
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    edited January 2019

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    malcolmg said:

    I rarely use trains or any other public transport, if it cannot support itself then I say tough.

    Off the top of my head, I spend approx 8-10% of my waking life on them. I f*****g hate trains... :(

    I f***ing love trains, man!

    Apart from oddities running at weekends only (like Brigg, Reddish South, Okehampton etc.) I just need 12 journeys, all in Scotland, to complete the UK National Network!

    Ayr to Stranraer
    Falkirk to Perth to Inverness
    Croy to Alloa
    Cardenden Loop
    Leuchars to Dundee
    Ladybank to Perth
    Perth to Aberdeen
    Aberdeen to Inverness
    Craigendoran to Oban
    Crianlarich to Mallaig
    Inverness to Kyle
    Dingwall to Thurso and Wick

    Interesting to reflect I've done all of those, except the line from Aberdeen to Elgin.
    Aberdeen to Inverness goes through Elgin
    I know. I've done Inverness to Elgin, but not on from there to Aberdeen.
    Hope you popped down to my wifes home town of Lossiemouth while in Elgin. Beautiful beaches, championship golf course, harbour with fishing museum featuring lots of my wifes family, RAF Lossiemoth defending us from the Russians and fabulous views over the Firth
    I'm afraid not, sadly. It's a place I wanted to visit, but didn't have time to on that occasion. All the area east of Inverness was very lovely though, I hope to spend more time exploring it this summer.
  • Jonathan said:

    In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.

    Thank fook for that.

    Holy shit, good news. Forgotten what that looks like. Well done. Hope for the rest of us.

    Currently wrestling with

    Mother in hospital with acute Leukaemia (doing well, but starting second chemo today)
    Father in different hospital 100m away with broken collar bone and dementia (v grumpy)
    Wife in wheelchair with MS and/or spinal fracture, back from hospital today. Diagnosis looming.
    Slipped disc in neck (v. minor, but a pain in the neck today )
    Two teenage boys (lovely, but pain in neck) currently in car park outside rugby club.

    Fortunately politics offers some respite from real life.


    Hell, I'll rein in any 2019 moaning in which I may have felt the need to indulge.
    Having experienced some small parts of that cocktail, I hope it stays manageable.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    @Jonathan Ouch, best of luck.
  • HYUFD said:

    After a bit of fiddling I have put together a UNS table for the Canadian Federal election and can tell you that the most recent poll translates to:

    Liberals 165 seats (-19)
    Conservative 124 seats (+25)
    NPD 37 seats (-7)
    Green 1 seats (+0)
    BQ 11 seats (+1)

    Whereas the best poll for the Conservatives produces:

    Liberals 140 seats (-44)
    Conservative 143 seats (+44)
    NPD 40 seats (-4)
    Green 1 seats (+0)
    BQ 14 seats (+4)


    Note that the new PPC is not modelled and the modelling of the BQ is not great.

    Either way looks like Trudeau could lose his majority but is still likely to have the numbers for a Liberal minority government if needed, no other parties will do a deal with the Conservatives
    My eldest who lives in Vancouver thinks Trudeau is over
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited January 2019
    Jonathan said:

    In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.

    Thank fook for that.

    Holy shit, good news. Forgotten what that looks like. Well done. Hope for the rest of us.

    Currently wrestling with

    Mother in hospital with acute Leukaemia (doing well, but starting second chemo today)
    Father in different hospital 100m away with broken collar bone and dementia (v grumpy)
    Wife in wheelchair with MS and/or spinal fracture, back from hospital today. Diagnosis looming.
    Slipped disc in neck (v. minor, but a pain in the neck today )
    Two teenage boys (lovely, but pain in neck) currently in car park outside rugby club.

    Fortunately politics offers some respite from real life.


    :open_mouth: How on Earth do you manage? I hope things go ok
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    malcolmg said:

    I rarely use trains or any other public transport, if it cannot support itself then I say tough.

    Off the top of my head, I spend approx 8-10% of my waking life on them. I f*****g hate trains... :(

    I f***ing love trains, man!

    Apart from oddities running at weekends only (like Brigg, Reddish South, Okehampton etc.) I just need 12 journeys, all in Scotland, to complete the UK National Network!

    Ayr to Stranraer
    Falkirk to Perth to Inverness
    Croy to Alloa
    Cardenden Loop
    Leuchars to Dundee
    Ladybank to Perth
    Perth to Aberdeen
    Aberdeen to Inverness
    Craigendoran to Oban
    Crianlarich to Mallaig
    Inverness to Kyle
    Dingwall to Thurso and Wick

    Interesting to reflect I've done all of those, except the line from Aberdeen to Elgin.
    Aberdeen to Inverness goes through Elgin
    I know. I've done Inverness to Elgin, but not on from there to Aberdeen.
    Hope you popped down to my wifes home town of Lossiemouth while in Elgin. Beautiful beaches, championship golf course, harbour with fishing museum featuring lots of my wifes family, RAF Lossiemoth defending us from the Russians and fabulous views over the Firth
    I'm afraid not, sadly. It's a place I wanted to visit, but didn't have time to on that occasion. All the area east of Inverness was very lovely though, I hope to spend more time exploring it this summer.
    It is worth a visit if you are going to do Elgin to Aberdeen
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.

    Thank fook for that.

    Glad to hear it was a false alarm - what a start to the New Year
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:

    After a bit of fiddling I have put together a UNS table for the Canadian Federal election and can tell you that the most recent poll translates to:

    Liberals 165 seats (-19)
    Conservative 124 seats (+25)
    NPD 37 seats (-7)
    Green 1 seats (+0)
    BQ 11 seats (+1)

    Whereas the best poll for the Conservatives produces:

    Liberals 140 seats (-44)
    Conservative 143 seats (+44)
    NPD 40 seats (-4)
    Green 1 seats (+0)
    BQ 14 seats (+4)


    Note that the new PPC is not modelled and the modelling of the BQ is not great.

    Either way looks like Trudeau could lose his majority but is still likely to have the numbers for a Liberal minority government if needed, no other parties will do a deal with the Conservatives
    My eldest who lives in Vancouver thinks Trudeau is over
    He is not as popular as 2015 but then Scheer is not that great an alternative either.


    I expect a repeat of the 2012 US election when Obama's ratings were down but he still beat Obama, Trudeau will be re elected but with a lower majority and less enthusiasm than the last election
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2019
    Fascinating Sam Harris podcast this week with a lady who is an expert in social media interference by GRU. Lots of info I have never heard as they get way past simply TRUUUUUMMP boooo that the likes of CNN never get beyond.

    https://twitter.com/samharrisorg/status/1080547158577696768?s=21
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    The only shoes my fiancée cares about are the metal ones for her horses xD. Conveniently we fit each others, and she owns zero heels.
    @Sunil become a farrier.
    @Jonathan blimey, hope things get better soon
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Jonathan said:

    In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.

    Thank fook for that.

    Holy shit, good news. Forgotten what that looks like. Well done. Hope for the rest of us.

    Currently wrestling with

    Mother in hospital with acute Leukaemia (doing well, but starting second chemo today)
    Father in different hospital 100m away with broken collar bone and dementia (v grumpy)
    Wife in wheelchair with MS and/or spinal fracture, back from hospital today. Diagnosis looming.
    Slipped disc in neck (v. minor, but a pain in the neck today )
    Two teenage boys (lovely, but pain in neck) currently in car park outside rugby club.

    Fortunately politics offers some respite from real life.


    Blimmin' heck. Hope that some preferably all of that works its way through. At what time are you planning on letting your boys back into the rugby club?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    Jonathan said:

    In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.

    Thank fook for that.

    Holy shit, good news. Forgotten what that looks like. Well done. Hope for the rest of us.

    Currently wrestling with

    Mother in hospital with acute Leukaemia (doing well, but starting second chemo today)
    Father in different hospital 100m away with broken collar bone and dementia (v grumpy)
    Wife in wheelchair with MS and/or spinal fracture, back from hospital today. Diagnosis looming.
    Slipped disc in neck (v. minor, but a pain in the neck today )
    Two teenage boys (lovely, but pain in neck) currently in car park outside rugby club.

    Fortunately politics offers some respite from real life.


    I'm very sorry to hear that. I hope you pull through.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    CD13 said:

    Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

    Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

    Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

    Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Thanks for kind words. Just real life biting hard all at once. If I’ve been a bit grumpy recently that’s why. PB is a nice place to escape. But Brexit politics isn’t hugely relaxing. Grrrr.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Foxy said:

    CD13 said:

    Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

    Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

    Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

    Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.
    Personally I have always felt it had more than a touch of pedophilia about. Really distasteful.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    edited January 2019
    Jonathan said:

    Thanks for kind words. Just real life biting hard all at once. If I’ve been a bit grumpy recently that’s why. PB is a nice place to escape. But Brexit politics isn’t hugely relaxing. Grrrr.

    I wouldn't have said you have been, personally. But then, the temperature has been somewhat higher than normal recently all around.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    HYUFD said:

    After a bit of fiddling I have put together a UNS table for the Canadian Federal election and can tell you that the most recent poll translates to:

    Liberals 165 seats (-19)
    Conservative 124 seats (+25)
    NPD 37 seats (-7)
    Green 1 seats (+0)
    BQ 11 seats (+1)

    Whereas the best poll for the Conservatives produces:

    Liberals 140 seats (-44)
    Conservative 143 seats (+44)
    NPD 40 seats (-4)
    Green 1 seats (+0)
    BQ 14 seats (+4)


    Note that the new PPC is not modelled and the modelling of the BQ is not great.

    Either way looks like Trudeau could lose his majority but is still likely to have the numbers for a Liberal minority government if needed, no other parties will do a deal with the Conservatives
    My eldest who lives in Vancouver thinks Trudeau is over
    Has the luster worn off him? It can be hard to tell as, in ways similar to Macron, because Trudeau is a bit of a liberal darling if you only casually pay attention you'd only ever hear positive things (though with the recent protests that might not be true of Macron's image any longer)
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    After a bit of fiddling I have put together a UNS table for the Canadian Federal election and can tell you that the most recent poll translates to:

    Liberals 165 seats (-19)
    Conservative 124 seats (+25)
    NPD 37 seats (-7)
    Green 1 seats (+0)
    BQ 11 seats (+1)

    Whereas the best poll for the Conservatives produces:

    Liberals 140 seats (-44)
    Conservative 143 seats (+44)
    NPD 40 seats (-4)
    Green 1 seats (+0)
    BQ 14 seats (+4)


    Note that the new PPC is not modelled and the modelling of the BQ is not great.

    Either way looks like Trudeau could lose his majority but is still likely to have the numbers for a Liberal minority government if needed, no other parties will do a deal with the Conservatives
    My eldest who lives in Vancouver thinks Trudeau is over
    He is not as popular as 2015 but then Scheer is not that great an alternative either.


    I expect a repeat of the 2012 US election when Obama's ratings were down but he still beat Obama, Trudeau will be re elected but with a lower majority and less enthusiasm than the last election
    The result could of course mean a Lib-led government under someone else.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911
    Foxy said:

    CD13 said:

    Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

    Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

    Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

    Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.
    Indeed. Without wishing to go into detail on a family friendly forum, I think porn has absolutely destroyed the young. I am just about old enough that as a teenager for me porn was a furtive copy of Playboy or perhaps a well thumbed Razzle shared between friends. We knew it bore no relationship to real life. Today's teens have access to infinte amounts of hardcore in HD, any time, any where, on their phones.

    It's a contradiction for me because I'm hugely against the porno ban / wanking license / drive to teach every teenager how to use a VPN that the government seem hell bent on pressing ahead with, because on principle I abhor censorship of any kind and think it sets a dangerous precedent.

    On the other hand, porn is corrupting minds and - more importantly - hearts. People today expect their sex to look like porn and it is deeply damaging as most of us are not and do not want to be pornstars.

    Despite being draconian and illiberal, the government has a point. But I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    After a bit of fiddling I have put together a UNS table for the Canadian Federal election and can tell you that the most recent poll translates to:

    Liberals 165 seats (-19)
    Conservative 124 seats (+25)
    NPD 37 seats (-7)
    Green 1 seats (+0)
    BQ 11 seats (+1)

    Whereas the best poll for the Conservatives produces:

    Liberals 140 seats (-44)
    Conservative 143 seats (+44)
    NPD 40 seats (-4)
    Green 1 seats (+0)
    BQ 14 seats (+4)


    Note that the new PPC is not modelled and the modelling of the BQ is not great.

    Either way looks like Trudeau could lose his majority but is still likely to have the numbers for a Liberal minority government if needed, no other parties will do a deal with the Conservatives
    My eldest who lives in Vancouver thinks Trudeau is over
    He is not as popular as 2015 but then Scheer is not that great an alternative either.


    I expect a repeat of the 2012 US election when Obama's ratings were down but he still beat Obama, Trudeau will be re elected but with a lower majority and less enthusiasm than the last election
    The result could of course mean a Lib-led government under someone else.
    I doubt it, the main reason they are in government is Trudeau, the most charismatic leader the Liberals have had since Chretien or indeed probably his father. Trudeau took the Liberals from third to first last time remember
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959
    edited January 2019
    Jonathan said:

    In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.

    Thank fook for that.

    Holy shit, good news. Forgotten what that looks like. Well done. Hope for the rest of us.

    Currently wrestling with

    Mother in hospital with acute Leukaemia (doing well, but starting second chemo today)
    Father in different hospital 100m away with broken collar bone and dementia (v grumpy)
    Wife in wheelchair with MS and/or spinal fracture, back from hospital today. Diagnosis looming.
    Slipped disc in neck (v. minor, but a pain in the neck today )
    Two teenage boys (lovely, but pain in neck) currently in car park outside rugby club.

    Fortunately politics offers some respite from real life.


    Bloody hell. As a former colleague used to say, "You must have shot God's dog....."

    If it's any consolation, others here seem grumpier!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited January 2019
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    After a bit of fiddling I have put together a UNS table for the Canadian Federal election and can tell you that the most recent poll translates to:

    Liberals 165 seats (-19)
    Conservative 124 seats (+25)
    NPD 37 seats (-7)
    Green 1 seats (+0)
    BQ 11 seats (+1)

    Whereas the best poll for the Conservatives produces:

    Liberals 140 seats (-44)
    Conservative 143 seats (+44)
    NPD 40 seats (-4)
    Green 1 seats (+0)
    BQ 14 seats (+4)


    Note that the new PPC is not modelled and the modelling of the BQ is not great.

    Either way looks like Trudeau could lose his majority but is still likely to have the numbers for a Liberal minority government if needed, no other parties will do a deal with the Conservatives
    My eldest who lives in Vancouver thinks Trudeau is over
    Has the luster worn off him? It can be hard to tell as, in ways similar to Macron, because Trudeau is a bit of a liberal darling if you only casually pay attention you'd only ever hear positive things (though with the recent protests that might not be true of Macron's image any longer)
    Macron like Trudeau is helped by the fact there is little appeal in any of the alternatives, Macron's rating is even lower than Trudeau's
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    CD13 said:

    Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

    Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

    Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

    Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.
    Personally I have always felt it had more than a touch of pedophilia about. Really distasteful.
    Yes, I agree that too.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911
    Jonathan said:

    Thanks for kind words. Just real life biting hard all at once. If I’ve been a bit grumpy recently that’s why. PB is a nice place to escape. But Brexit politics isn’t hugely relaxing. Grrrr.

    Heh, I agree, which is why I've taken to posting about trains, shoes and watches! I think sometimes in these hours of darkness, we need a little light relief.

    Wishing you and your family all the best.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    Foxy said:

    CD13 said:

    Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

    Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

    Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

    Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.
    It's a recent thing though. Well-trimmed pubic hair used to be de rigeur for stars of adult films
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959
    Dura_Ace said:

    CD13 said:

    Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

    Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

    Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

    My ex-CO once had to perform emergency topiary on a Manila bar girl while she stood over the bin in his hotel room. Such was the thicket that faced the intrepid explorer.
    Taming the Growler.....

    Although, to be fair, getting pubic hair in your teeth is not a great look.

    However, nothing beats the horror of confronting The Hairy Nipple......
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    I can't imagine many of the pubic hair fans would prefer women with leg hair or facial hair.

    Obviously it is another difference again but if you prefer women not to have hair in several places where it does (or can) grow naturally then it really isn't that much of a jump to see why they some people might not want it in other places as well.



  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    I can't imagine many of the pubic hair fans would prefer women with leg hair or facial hair.

    Obviously it is another difference again but if you prefer women not to have hair in several places where it does (or can) grow naturally then it really isn't that much of a jump to see why they some people might not want it in other places as well.

    I suspect you are right about that.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688
    edited January 2019

    I can't imagine many of the pubic hair fans would prefer women with leg hair or facial hair.

    Obviously it is another difference again but if you prefer women not to have hair in several places where it does (or can) grow naturally then it really isn't that much of a jump to see why they some people might not want it in other places as well.



    I think you're overthinking something that shouldn't be overthought.
  • Foxy said:

    CD13 said:

    Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

    Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

    Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

    Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.
    Real men should be hairy!
    And real women should like hairy men!

    Chewbacca ain't got shit on me! :lol:
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    I can't imagine many of the pubic hair fans would prefer women with leg hair or facial hair.

    Obviously it is another difference again but if you prefer women not to have hair in several places where it does (or can) grow naturally then it really isn't that much of a jump to see why they some people might not want it in other places as well.

    Facial hair, no, as it would be too much like being attracted to another man.

    Leg hair is okay, so long as it's not too vigorous.
  • Jonathan said:

    Thanks for kind words. Just real life biting hard all at once. If I’ve been a bit grumpy recently that’s why. PB is a nice place to escape. But Brexit politics isn’t hugely relaxing. Grrrr.

    Sorry to hear of your troubles, and hope you pull through.

    All I can manage to counter with is that I've been on "trainspotting leave" since the end of August.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    edited January 2019

    I can't imagine many of the pubic hair fans would prefer women with leg hair or facial hair.

    Obviously it is another difference again but if you prefer women not to have hair in several places where it does (or can) grow naturally then it really isn't that much of a jump to see why they some people might not want it in other places as well.



    True enough, I remember how horrified some friends of mine were in the eighties when Nena (of 99 Red baloons fame) showed off her hairy armpits on TOTP.

    As a bit of a hippy, I have always been happy with the hirsute though.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    Foxy said:

    I can't imagine many of the pubic hair fans would prefer women with leg hair or facial hair.

    Obviously it is another difference again but if you prefer women not to have hair in several places where it does (or can) grow naturally then it really isn't that much of a jump to see why they some people might not want it in other places as well.



    True enough, I remember how horrified some friends of mine were in the eighties when Nena (of 99 Red baloons fame) showed off her hairy armpits on TOTP.

    As a bit of a hippy, I have always been happy with the hirsute though.
    Miley Cyrus' pink armpit hair is a bit revolting, however.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069

    Foxy said:

    CD13 said:

    Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

    Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

    Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

    Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.
    Real men should be hairy!
    And real women should like hairy men!

    Chewbacca ain't got shit on me! :lol:
    Unfortunately the Burt Reynolds/Magnum PI look has faded into history.

    Mrs Foxy has a particular issue with nasal hair...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    I can't imagine many of the pubic hair fans would prefer women with leg hair or facial hair.

    Obviously it is another difference again but if you prefer women not to have hair in several places where it does (or can) grow naturally then it really isn't that much of a jump to see why they some people might not want it in other places as well.



    Pubic hair performs a useful function beyond the erotic.

    It provides a cushion against friction that can cause skin abrasion and injury, protection from bacteria and other unwanted pathogens. Shaving it can cause injury and may make the skin more vulnerable to herpes infections and genital warts. Hair helps regulate heat and sweating in the area. The hair follicles also have a nerve ending so that when the hair is lightly touched it gives a pleasant sensation.

    I suppose the question for me would be this: why would I want to have sex with a man who wants to have sex with a woman whose genitals look like those of a child?
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Hairy armpits and legs huge no's for me. Doesn't have to be shaved that day, being able to feel some small hairs there is okay but something that develops into patches of dark hairs is a real turn off...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Sean_F said:

    I can't imagine many of the pubic hair fans would prefer women with leg hair or facial hair.

    Obviously it is another difference again but if you prefer women not to have hair in several places where it does (or can) grow naturally then it really isn't that much of a jump to see why they some people might not want it in other places as well.

    Facial hair, no, as it would be too much like being attracted to another man.

    Leg hair is okay, so long as it's not too vigorous.
    There are fundamental itchiness/chafing (Informed of this one by good friends) considerations that simply don't apply with leg hair. Will leave it at that. Public hair removal is way more drastic than leg or facial hair removal.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,547
    kyf_100 said:

    Foxy said:

    CD13 said:

    Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

    Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

    Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

    Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.
    Indeed. Without wishing to go into detail on a family friendly forum, I think porn has absolutely destroyed the young. I am just about old enough that as a teenager for me porn was a furtive copy of Playboy or perhaps a well thumbed Razzle shared between friends. We knew it bore no relationship to real life. Today's teens have access to infinte amounts of hardcore in HD, any time, any where, on their phones.

    It's a contradiction for me because I'm hugely against the porno ban / wanking license / drive to teach every teenager how to use a VPN that the government seem hell bent on pressing ahead with, because on principle I abhor censorship of any kind and think it sets a dangerous precedent.

    On the other hand, porn is corrupting minds and - more importantly - hearts. People today expect their sex to look like porn and it is deeply damaging as most of us are not and do not want to be pornstars.

    Despite being draconian and illiberal, the government has a point. But I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done.
    I don't agree. These sentiments remind me of the Mary Whitehouse and Lord Longford campaigns of the 1960s and 1970s which set themselves up as Canute-like opponents of the sexual freedoms brought about by the pill and the changing social climate of the time. These changes are now mainstream and the societal doom and disaster predicted have not materialised. Attempts to turn back the clock, widely supported in the rightwing press, the Churches and the Tory Party, were probably the least successful public campaign in modern times. The same applies to internet porn, it is out there, the genie cannot be put back in the bottle and we have to teach people how to approach and interpret it, not try to ban it. I don't think most people feel disappointed if they can't imitate everything they can see on the internet, some do perhaps but no doubt they would have felt disappointed if they did not imitate everything they saw in the top shelf magazines of our youth or heard about in whispered conversations behind the bikesheds.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688
    Ultima Thule needs to be renamed as 'snowman'. Such a cool bit of matter.

    I may need to acquire a merkin to get this post through the wire I guess.
  • Greggs twitter account absolutely smashing it.

    https://twitter.com/GreggsOfficial/status/1080527865467322369
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    kyf_100 said:

    Indeed. Without wishing to go into detail on a family friendly forum, I think porn has absolutely destroyed the young. I am just about old enough that as a teenager for me porn was a furtive copy of Playboy or perhaps a well thumbed Razzle shared between friends. We knew it bore no relationship to real life. Today's teens have access to infinite amounts of hardcore in HD, any time, any where, on their phones.

    It's a contradiction for me because I'm hugely against the porno ban / wanking license / drive to teach every teenager how to use a VPN that the government seem hell bent on pressing ahead with, because on principle I abhor censorship of any kind and think it sets a dangerous precedent.

    On the other hand, porn is corrupting minds and - more importantly - hearts. People today expect their sex to look like porn and it is deeply damaging as most of us are not and do not want to be pornstars.

    Despite being draconian and illiberal, the government has a point. But I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done.

    Has absolutely destroyed the young? That does not ring true to me.

    Do you see much evidence for that?

    Or have you deduced that it must be true because (i) porn is all over and (ii) young people are impressionable?
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    CD13 said:

    Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

    Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

    Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

    Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.
    Real men should be hairy!
    And real women should like hairy men!

    Chewbacca ain't got shit on me! :lol:
    Unfortunately the Burt Reynolds/Magnum PI look has faded into history.

    Mrs Foxy has a particular issue with nasal hair...
    You're just racist against hairy people!
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Cyclefree said:

    I can't imagine many of the pubic hair fans would prefer women with leg hair or facial hair.

    Obviously it is another difference again but if you prefer women not to have hair in several places where it does (or can) grow naturally then it really isn't that much of a jump to see why they some people might not want it in other places as well.



    Pubic hair performs a useful function beyond the erotic.

    It provides a cushion against friction that can cause skin abrasion and injury, protection from bacteria and other unwanted pathogens. Shaving it can cause injury and may make the skin more vulnerable to herpes infections and genital warts. Hair helps regulate heat and sweating in the area. The hair follicles also have a nerve ending so that when the hair is lightly touched it gives a pleasant sensation.

    I suppose the question for me would be this: why would I want to have sex with a man who wants to have sex with a woman whose genitals look like those of a child?
    More pertinently, why would I want to have sex with a man who does not love me as I am. If he wants me to look like someone else,then he should go and find that someone else.

    I am me, not a work in progress.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    I might have to reassess what the P in PB stands for :o
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911

    kyf_100 said:

    Foxy said:


    Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.

    Indeed. Without wishing to go into detail on a family friendly forum, I think porn has absolutely destroyed the young. I am just about old enough that as a teenager for me porn was a furtive copy of Playboy or perhaps a well thumbed Razzle shared between friends. We knew it bore no relationship to real life. Today's teens have access to infinte amounts of hardcore in HD, any time, any where, on their phones.

    It's a contradiction for me because I'm hugely against the porno ban / wanking license / drive to teach every teenager how to use a VPN that the government seem hell bent on pressing ahead with, because on principle I abhor censorship of any kind and think it sets a dangerous precedent.

    On the other hand, porn is corrupting minds and - more importantly - hearts. People today expect their sex to look like porn and it is deeply damaging as most of us are not and do not want to be pornstars.

    Despite being draconian and illiberal, the government has a point. But I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done.
    I don't agree. These sentiments remind me of the Mary Whitehouse and Lord Longford campaigns of the 1960s and 1970s which set themselves up as Canute-like opponents of the sexual freedoms brought about by the pill and the changing social climate of the time. These changes are now mainstream and the societal doom and disaster predicted have not materialised. Attempts to turn back the clock, widely supported in the rightwing press, the Churches and the Tory Party, were probably the least successful public campaign in modern times. The same applies to internet porn, it is out there, the genie cannot be put back in the bottle and we have to teach people how to approach and interpret it, not try to ban it. I don't think most people feel disappointed if they can't imitate everything they can see on the internet, some do perhaps but no doubt they would have felt disappointed if they did not imitate everything they saw in the top shelf magazines of our youth or heard about in whispered conversations behind the bikesheds.
    I disagree, I think the differences between the "porn" of yesteryear and today's stuff is the difference between the hash of the 60s and today's super skunk. Having said that, I believe the genie is firmly out of the bottle and there is no use trying to ban it. That doesn't mean I think it's remotely healthy or good for you.

    Some research on the subject, NSFW, obviously.

    https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/miscellaneous-resources/start-here-evolution-has-not-prepared-your-brain-for-todays-porn/
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Cyclefree said:

    I can't imagine many of the pubic hair fans would prefer women with leg hair or facial hair.

    Obviously it is another difference again but if you prefer women not to have hair in several places where it does (or can) grow naturally then it really isn't that much of a jump to see why they some people might not want it in other places as well.



    Pubic hair performs a useful function beyond the erotic.

    It provides a cushion against friction that can cause skin abrasion and injury, protection from bacteria and other unwanted pathogens. Shaving it can cause injury and may make the skin more vulnerable to herpes infections and genital warts. Hair helps regulate heat and sweating in the area. The hair follicles also have a nerve ending so that when the hair is lightly touched it gives a pleasant sensation.

    I suppose the question for me would be this: why would I want to have sex with a man who wants to have sex with a woman whose genitals look like those of a child?
    More pertinently, why would I want to have sex with a man who does not love me as I am. If he wants me to look like someone else,then he should go and find that someone else.

    I am me, not a work in progress.
    True.

    But I am suspicious of men who aren't at ease with what a grown up woman's body looks like.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    After a bit of fiddling I have put together a UNS table for the Canadian Federal election and can tell you that the most recent poll translates to:

    Liberals 165 seats (-19)
    Conservative 124 seats (+25)
    NPD 37 seats (-7)
    Green 1 seats (+0)
    BQ 11 seats (+1)

    Whereas the best poll for the Conservatives produces:

    Liberals 140 seats (-44)
    Conservative 143 seats (+44)
    NPD 40 seats (-4)
    Green 1 seats (+0)
    BQ 14 seats (+4)


    Note that the new PPC is not modelled and the modelling of the BQ is not great.

    Either way looks like Trudeau could lose his majority but is still likely to have the numbers for a Liberal minority government if needed, no other parties will do a deal with the Conservatives
    My eldest who lives in Vancouver thinks Trudeau is over
    He is not as popular as 2015 but then Scheer is not that great an alternative either.


    I expect a repeat of the 2012 US election when Obama's ratings were down but he still beat Obama, Trudeau will be re elected but with a lower majority and less enthusiasm than the last election
    Not what I am hearing from Canadians
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    Greggs twitter account absolutely smashing it.

    https://twitter.com/GreggsOfficial/status/1080527865467322369

    Piers Morgan seems to have deleted the tweet they were replying to.
  • kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    After a bit of fiddling I have put together a UNS table for the Canadian Federal election and can tell you that the most recent poll translates to:

    Liberals 165 seats (-19)
    Conservative 124 seats (+25)
    NPD 37 seats (-7)
    Green 1 seats (+0)
    BQ 11 seats (+1)

    Whereas the best poll for the Conservatives produces:

    Liberals 140 seats (-44)
    Conservative 143 seats (+44)
    NPD 40 seats (-4)
    Green 1 seats (+0)
    BQ 14 seats (+4)


    Note that the new PPC is not modelled and the modelling of the BQ is not great.

    Either way looks like Trudeau could lose his majority but is still likely to have the numbers for a Liberal minority government if needed, no other parties will do a deal with the Conservatives
    My eldest who lives in Vancouver thinks Trudeau is over
    Has the luster worn off him? It can be hard to tell as, in ways similar to Macron, because Trudeau is a bit of a liberal darling if you only casually pay attention you'd only ever hear positive things (though with the recent protests that might not be true of Macron's image any longer)
    Seems to be going pear shaped for him
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688

    Greggs twitter account absolutely smashing it.

    https://twitter.com/GreggsOfficial/status/1080527865467322369

    Piers Morgan seems to have deleted the tweet they were replying to.
    If only you'd said
    "Piers Morgan seems to have deleted the twit they were replying to"
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911
    kinabalu said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Indeed. Without wishing to go into detail on a family friendly forum, I think porn has absolutely destroyed the young. I am just about old enough that as a teenager for me porn was a furtive copy of Playboy or perhaps a well thumbed Razzle shared between friends. We knew it bore no relationship to real life. Today's teens have access to infinite amounts of hardcore in HD, any time, any where, on their phones.

    It's a contradiction for me because I'm hugely against the porno ban / wanking license / drive to teach every teenager how to use a VPN that the government seem hell bent on pressing ahead with, because on principle I abhor censorship of any kind and think it sets a dangerous precedent.

    On the other hand, porn is corrupting minds and - more importantly - hearts. People today expect their sex to look like porn and it is deeply damaging as most of us are not and do not want to be pornstars.

    Despite being draconian and illiberal, the government has a point. But I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done.

    Has absolutely destroyed the young? That does not ring true to me.

    Do you see much evidence for that?

    Or have you deduced that it must be true because (i) porn is all over and (ii) young people are impressionable?
    See the link I posted in reply to Anothernick, below.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    kyf_100 said:

    Foxy said:

    CD13 said:

    Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

    Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

    Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

    Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.
    Indeed. Without wishing to go into detail on a family friendly forum, I think porn has absolutely destroyed the young. I am just about old enough that as a teenager for me porn was a furtive copy of Playboy or perhaps a well thumbed Razzle shared between friends. We knew it bore no relationship to real life. Today's teens have access to infinte amounts of hardcore in HD, any time, any where, on their phones.

    It's a contradiction for me because I'm hugely against the porno ban / wanking license / drive to teach every teenager how to use a VPN that the government seem hell bent on pressing ahead with, because on principle I abhor censorship of any kind and think it sets a dangerous precedent.

    On the other hand, porn is corrupting minds and - more importantly - hearts. People today expect their sex to look like porn and it is deeply damaging as most of us are not and do not want to be pornstars.

    Despite being draconian and illiberal, the government has a point. But I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done.
    I don't agree. These sentiments remind me of the Mary Whitehouse and Lord Longford campaigns of the 1960s and 1970s which set themselves up as Canute-like opponents of the sexual freedoms brought about by the pill and the changing social climate of the time. These changes are now mainstream and the societal doom and disaster predicted have not materialised. Attempts to turn back the clock, widely supported in the rightwing press, the Churches and the Tory Party, were probably the least successful public campaign in modern times. The same applies to internet porn, it is out there, the genie cannot be put back in the bottle and we have to teach people how to approach and interpret it, not try to ban it. I don't think most people feel disappointed if they can't imitate everything they can see on the internet, some do perhaps but no doubt they would have felt disappointed if they did not imitate everything they saw in the top shelf magazines of our youth or heard about in whispered conversations behind the bikesheds.
    The things that take place in hardcore porn seem painful, rather than enjoyable.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    Sean_F said:

    The things that take place in hardcore porn seem painful, rather than enjoyable.

    But apparently they are a coming fad.

    I'll get my coat.

    (By the way, how do you know what takes place in hardcore porn?)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    The things that take place in hardcore porn seem painful, rather than enjoyable.

    But apparently they are a coming fad.

    I'll get my coat.

    (By the way, how do you know what takes place in hardcore porn?)
    Friends have told me.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281

    Greggs twitter account absolutely smashing it.

    https://twitter.com/GreggsOfficial/status/1080527865467322369

    Piers Morgan seems to have deleted the tweet they were replying to.
    Nope. It's still there:

    https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1080526060507283456
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    Sympathies, Jonathan - that sounds awful. I find the forum a relaxed place to escape from stresses at times: there is a lot to be said for being among peolple who are friendly but not immediately proximate - close friends and family want to talk about the problems, we just want to talk about...er..pubic hair today, apparently. Who knows what will take our fancy tomorrow and distract us further?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    edited January 2019

    Greggs twitter account absolutely smashing it.

    https://twitter.com/GreggsOfficial/status/1080527865467322369

    Piers Morgan seems to have deleted the tweet they were replying to.
    No, we can still see what he was getting upright over:
    http://www.twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1080526060507283456 He also replied to their putdown with his usual inimitable style and class:
    http://www.twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1080532990940401664
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    The things that take place in hardcore porn seem painful, rather than enjoyable.

    But apparently they are a coming fad.

    I'll get my coat.

    (By the way, how do you know what takes place in hardcore porn?)
    Friends have told me.
    Really? Hmmm...
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I can't imagine many of the pubic hair fans would prefer women with leg hair or facial hair.

    Obviously it is another difference again but if you prefer women not to have hair in several places where it does (or can) grow naturally then it really isn't that much of a jump to see why they some people might not want it in other places as well.



    Pubic hair performs a useful function beyond the erotic.

    It provides a cushion against friction that can cause skin abrasion and injury, protection from bacteria and other unwanted pathogens. Shaving it can cause injury and may make the skin more vulnerable to herpes infections and genital warts. Hair helps regulate heat and sweating in the area. The hair follicles also have a nerve ending so that when the hair is lightly touched it gives a pleasant sensation.

    I suppose the question for me would be this: why would I want to have sex with a man who wants to have sex with a woman whose genitals look like those of a child?
    More pertinently, why would I want to have sex with a man who does not love me as I am. If he wants me to look like someone else,then he should go and find that someone else.

    I am me, not a work in progress.
    True.

    But I am suspicious of men who aren't at ease with what a grown up woman's body looks like.
    I totally agree.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    ydoethur said:

    Greggs twitter account absolutely smashing it.

    https://twitter.com/GreggsOfficial/status/1080527865467322369

    Piers Morgan seems to have deleted the tweet they were replying to.
    No, we can still see what he was getting upright over:
    http://www.twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1080526060507283456 He also replied to their putdown with his usual inimitable style and class:
    http://www.twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1080532990940401664
    What an idiot he is. Gregg's must be loving all this extra publicity!
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,745


    Seems to be going pear shaped for him

    Isn't that true though of all politicians especially in democratic free societies?

    The sense of novelty, of youth, of "something different" naturally wears off when you see them every day. and they face the same problems as their predecessors and the reality dawns they have the same lack of answers.

    Those who come into office widely disliked have of course little to lose by comparison.

    In the end, everyone finds their own level of incompetence (and that's true outside politics too).


  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    ydoethur said:

    Greggs twitter account absolutely smashing it.

    https://twitter.com/GreggsOfficial/status/1080527865467322369

    Piers Morgan seems to have deleted the tweet they were replying to.
    No, we can still see what he was getting upright over:
    http://www.twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1080526060507283456 He also replied to their putdown with his usual inimitable style and class:
    http://www.twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1080532990940401664
    What an idiot he is. Gregg's must be loving all this extra publicity!
    Indeed yes. I'm hardly an enthusiastic vegan supporter but if Morgan doesn't like it then as a point of principle I'll accept the idea has merit.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    CD13 said:

    Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

    Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

    Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

    Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.
    Personally I have always felt it had more than a touch of pedophilia about. Really distasteful.
    Yes - absolutely agree. Something rather creepy about it.
  • How Do You Know if Someone is VEGAN?

    Don't Worry, they'll fucking tell you...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    ydoethur said:

    Greggs twitter account absolutely smashing it.

    https://twitter.com/GreggsOfficial/status/1080527865467322369

    Piers Morgan seems to have deleted the tweet they were replying to.
    No, we can still see what he was getting upright over:
    http://www.twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1080526060507283456 He also replied to their
    Oh yeah. Weirdly if you open Greggs' reply in a browser, the original tweet is invisible but they're linked in the app.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    edited January 2019

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    CD13 said:

    Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

    Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

    Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

    Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.
    Personally I have always felt it had more than a touch of pedophilia about. Really distasteful.
    Yes - absolutely agree. Something rather creepy about it.
    It's not modern though. There is a wonderful passage in Ousamah ibn-MUnqidh's Memoirs where a Frank gets his pubes shaved, Arab fashion, by a man at the baths. He's so pleased with the effect he drags this man to his house, orders his wife to strip and gets her pudendum shaved as well. Ousamah, not surprisingly, was rather bemused by this second action!

    And that was in twelfth century Jerusalem!
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,547
    kyf_100 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Indeed. Without wishing to go into detail on a family friendly forum, I think porn has absolutely destroyed the young. I am just about old enough that as a teenager for me porn was a furtive copy of Playboy or perhaps a well thumbed Razzle shared between friends. We knew it bore no relationship to real life. Today's teens have access to infinite amounts of hardcore in HD, any time, any where, on their phones.

    It's a contradiction for me because I'm hugely against the porno ban / wanking license / drive to teach every teenager how to use a VPN that the government seem hell bent on pressing ahead with, because on principle I abhor censorship of any kind and think it sets a dangerous precedent.

    On the other hand, porn is corrupting minds and - more importantly - hearts. People today expect their sex to look like porn and it is deeply damaging as most of us are not and do not want to be pornstars.

    Despite being draconian and illiberal, the government has a point. But I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done.

    Has absolutely destroyed the young? That does not ring true to me.

    Do you see much evidence for that?

    Or have you deduced that it must be true because (i) porn is all over and (ii) young people are impressionable?
    See the link I posted in reply to Anothernick, below.
    I'm not qualified to challenge the science in all of that, Though the website is clearly plugging a line and is not objective; it has the slightly polemical air of the "just say no" campaigns in the US. And anyway it seems that the science is disputed

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/women-who-stray/201307/your-brain-porn-its-not-addictive

    I'm not saying internet porn is harmless but nor do I think it will lead to the destruction of young minds and I frankly doubt that it is deeply damaging to most users.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281

    Sympathies, Jonathan - that sounds awful. I find the forum a relaxed place to escape from stresses at times: there is a lot to be said for being among peolple who are friendly but not immediately proximate - close friends and family want to talk about the problems, we just want to talk about...er..pubic hair today, apparently. Who knows what will take our fancy tomorrow and distract us further?

    Sympathies from me also @Jonathan - that sounds like a far larger group of troubles than anyone should be having to put up with. I hope you see a few resolve themselves quickly in positive ways.

    Re PB tonight: Shoes, pubic hair and vegan sausage rolls ?! Any chance we can just go back to Brexit?
  • Sympathies, Jonathan - that sounds awful. I find the forum a relaxed place to escape from stresses at times: there is a lot to be said for being among peolple who are friendly but not immediately proximate - close friends and family want to talk about the problems, we just want to talk about...er..pubic hair today, apparently. Who knows what will take our fancy tomorrow and distract us further?

    Sympathies from me also @Jonathan - that sounds like a far larger group of troubles than anyone should be having to put up with. I hope you see a few resolve themselves quickly in positive ways.

    Re PB tonight: Shoes, pubic hair and vegan sausage rolls ?! Any chance we can just go back to Brexit?
    It’s like the good old days of PB...all that is missing is top first class airport lounges, Michelin starred restaurants & bottles of plonk.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    Re PB tonight: Shoes, pubic hair and vegan sausage rolls ?! Any chance we can just go back to Brexit?

    *Puts on big shouty teacher voice*

    NO!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    stodge said:


    Seems to be going pear shaped for him

    Isn't that true though of all politicians especially in democratic free societies?

    The sense of novelty, of youth, of "something different" naturally wears off when you see them every day. and they face the same problems as their predecessors and the reality dawns they have the same lack of answers.
    It's why I find the optimistic adoration of certain people, parties or ideologies to be simultaneously baffling, endearing and frustrating. I have never experienced such inspiration toward a person, party or idea but I can see the appeal, how those more passionate and idealistic can probably achieve things I never could with such a cynical take on things, but I just cannot understand, in our modern democratic societies, how people can come to seemingly love certain individuals on sometimes very limited evidence, not even the truth of who someone is but the myth. Granted, the same thing does work in reverse for hatred of certain people, parties and ideologies.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    ydoethur said:

    Re PB tonight: Shoes, pubic hair and vegan sausage rolls ?! Any chance we can just go back to Brexit?

    *Puts on big shouty teacher voice*

    NO!
    I think you'll find we will soon enough :) Happy to steer clear this week though.

    Back on topic, am I right in thinking German women tend not to shave their armpits - or is that way out of date now?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    CD13 said:

    Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

    Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

    Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

    Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.
    Personally I have always felt it had more than a touch of pedophilia about. Really distasteful.
    Yes - absolutely agree. Something rather creepy about it.
    It's not modern though. There is a wonderful passage in Ousamah ibn-MUnqidh's Memoirs where a Frank gets his pubes shaved, Arab fashion, by a man at the baths. He's so pleased with the effect he drags this man to his house, orders his wife to strip and gets her pudendum shaved as well. Ousamah, not surprisingly, was rather bemused by this second action!

    And that was in twelfth century Jerusalem!
    I think observant Muslims are requires to shave their body hair, including armpits and pubes. Probably sensible in the context of the desert-living early Muslims.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    ydoethur said:

    Greggs twitter account absolutely smashing it.

    https://twitter.com/GreggsOfficial/status/1080527865467322369

    Piers Morgan seems to have deleted the tweet they were replying to.
    No, we can still see what he was getting upright over:
    http://www.twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1080526060507283456 He also replied to their putdown with his usual inimitable style and class:
    http://www.twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1080532990940401664
    What an idiot he is. Gregg's must be loving all this extra publicity!
    Their marketing department have earned their holiday bonus that's for sure.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    kle4 said:

    stodge said:


    Seems to be going pear shaped for him

    Isn't that true though of all politicians especially in democratic free societies?

    The sense of novelty, of youth, of "something different" naturally wears off when you see them every day. and they face the same problems as their predecessors and the reality dawns they have the same lack of answers.
    It's why I find the optimistic adoration of certain people, parties or ideologies to be simultaneously baffling, endearing and frustrating. I have never experienced such inspiration toward a person, party or idea but I can see the appeal, how those more passionate and idealistic can probably achieve things I never could with such a cynical take on things, but I just cannot understand, in our modern democratic societies, how people can come to seemingly love certain individuals on sometimes very limited evidence, not even the truth of who someone is but the myth. Granted, the same thing does work in reverse for hatred of certain people, parties and ideologies.
    How 1930s Germany fell for Hitler is a mystery to me.

    And yet, much as each of us probably likes to think we'd have resisted the rise of Nazisim if we'd been there, we can never really know can we?
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,547

    Sympathies, Jonathan - that sounds awful. I find the forum a relaxed place to escape from stresses at times: there is a lot to be said for being among peolple who are friendly but not immediately proximate - close friends and family want to talk about the problems, we just want to talk about...er..pubic hair today, apparently. Who knows what will take our fancy tomorrow and distract us further?

    Sympathies from me also @Jonathan - that sounds like a far larger group of troubles than anyone should be having to put up with. I hope you see a few resolve themselves quickly in positive ways.

    +1, sounds awful. Hope things improve soon.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    edited January 2019
    rpjs said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    CD13 said:

    Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

    Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

    Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

    Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.
    Personally I have always felt it had more than a touch of pedophilia about. Really distasteful.
    Yes - absolutely agree. Something rather creepy about it.
    It's not modern though. There is a wonderful passage in Ousamah ibn-MUnqidh's Memoirs where a Frank gets his pubes shaved, Arab fashion, by a man at the baths. He's so pleased with the effect he drags this man to his house, orders his wife to strip and gets her pudendum shaved as well. Ousamah, not surprisingly, was rather bemused by this second action!

    And that was in twelfth century Jerusalem!
    I think observant Muslims are requires to shave their body hair, including armpits and pubes. Probably sensible in the context of the desert-living early Muslims.
    Why so? And wouldn't access to sharp razors have been a luxury in the late first millennium?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    edited January 2019

    ydoethur said:

    Re PB tonight: Shoes, pubic hair and vegan sausage rolls ?! Any chance we can just go back to Brexit?

    *Puts on big shouty teacher voice*

    NO!
    I think you'll find we will soon enough :) Happy to steer clear this week though.

    Back on topic, am I right in thinking German women tend not to shave their armpits - or is that way out of date now?
    Wouldn't know, ask Nigel Farage.

    Edit - oh bollocks, I've changed the conversation back myself!!!!!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kle4 said:

    stodge said:


    Seems to be going pear shaped for him

    Isn't that true though of all politicians especially in democratic free societies?

    The sense of novelty, of youth, of "something different" naturally wears off when you see them every day. and they face the same problems as their predecessors and the reality dawns they have the same lack of answers.
    It's why I find the optimistic adoration of certain people, parties or ideologies to be simultaneously baffling, endearing and frustrating. I have never experienced such inspiration toward a person, party or idea but I can see the appeal, how those more passionate and idealistic can probably achieve things I never could with such a cynical take on things, but I just cannot understand, in our modern democratic societies, how people can come to seemingly love certain individuals on sometimes very limited evidence, not even the truth of who someone is but the myth. Granted, the same thing does work in reverse for hatred of certain people, parties and ideologies.
    How 1930s Germany fell for Hitler is a mystery to me.

    And yet, much as each of us probably likes to think we'd have resisted the rise of Nazisim if we'd been there, we can never really know can we?
    I suspect we'd all go with the flow more than we'd like to think. As credible as we think ourselves to be we're guaranteed to believe at least one really stupid thing, and of course if we were faced with actual repressive politics and brutal regimes well, a lot of the world shows most people just accept it and we'd probably be the same.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911

    kyf_100 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Indeed. Without wishing to go into detail on a family friendly forum, I think porn has absolutely destroyed the young. I am just about old enough that as a teenager for me porn was a furtive copy of Playboy or perhaps a well thumbed Razzle shared between friends. We knew it bore no relationship to real life. Today's teens have access to infinite amounts of hardcore in HD, any time, any where, on their phones.

    It's a contradiction for me because I'm hugely against the porno ban / wanking license / drive to teach every teenager how to use a VPN that the government seem hell bent on pressing ahead with, because on principle I abhor censorship of any kind and think it sets a dangerous precedent.

    On the other hand, porn is corrupting minds and - more importantly - hearts. People today expect their sex to look like porn and it is deeply damaging as most of us are not and do not want to be pornstars.

    Despite being draconian and illiberal, the government has a point. But I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done.

    Has absolutely destroyed the young? That does not ring true to me.

    Do you see much evidence for that?

    Or have you deduced that it must be true because (i) porn is all over and (ii) young people are impressionable?
    See the link I posted in reply to Anothernick, below.
    I'm not qualified to challenge the science in all of that, Though the website is clearly plugging a line and is not objective; it has the slightly polemical air of the "just say no" campaigns in the US. And anyway it seems that the science is disputed

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/women-who-stray/201307/your-brain-porn-its-not-addictive

    I'm not saying internet porn is harmless but nor do I think it will lead to the destruction of young minds and I frankly doubt that it is deeply damaging to most users.
    Yes, the site is polemical, but it is well researched and an interesting compilation of links.

    But rather than read about it, my suggestion to anyone who thinks that porn is not addictive is to go without for 28 days and see how hard it is. Fnarr fnarr.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    rpjs said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    CD13 said:

    Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

    Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

    Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

    Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.
    Personally I have always felt it had more than a touch of pedophilia about. Really distasteful.
    Yes - absolutely agree. Something rather creepy about it.
    It's not modern though. There is a wonderful passage in Ousamah ibn-MUnqidh's Memoirs where a Frank gets his pubes shaved, Arab fashion, by a man at the baths. He's so pleased with the effect he drags this man to his house, orders his wife to strip and gets her pudendum shaved as well. Ousamah, not surprisingly, was rather bemused by this second action!

    And that was in twelfth century Jerusalem!
    I think observant Muslims are requires to shave their body hair, including armpits and pubes. Probably sensible in the context of the desert-living early Muslims.
    I am sure a rusty machete will do the trick!
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Greggs twitter account absolutely smashing it.

    https://twitter.com/GreggsOfficial/status/1080527865467322369

    Piers Morgan seems to have deleted the tweet they were replying to.
    No, we can still see what he was getting upright over:
    http://www.twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1080526060507283456 He also replied to their putdown with his usual inimitable style and class:
    http://www.twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1080532990940401664
    What an idiot he is. Gregg's must be loving all this extra publicity!
    Indeed yes. I'm hardly an enthusiastic vegan supporter but if Morgan doesn't like it then as a point of principle I'll accept the idea has merit.
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.

    Thank fook for that.

    Holy shit, good news. Forgotten what that looks like. Well done. Hope for the rest of us.

    Currently wrestling with

    Mother in hospital with acute Leukaemia (doing well, but starting second chemo today)
    Father in different hospital 100m away with broken collar bone and dementia (v grumpy)
    Wife in wheelchair with MS and/or spinal fracture, back from hospital today. Diagnosis looming.
    Slipped disc in neck (v. minor, but a pain in the neck today )
    Two teenage boys (lovely, but pain in neck) currently in car park outside rugby club.

    Fortunately politics offers some respite from real life.
    Bloody hell, Jonathan, you really are going through it. Kind of puts other troubles in perspective.

    Best wishes and best of luck.

    Best wishes and I hope things sort themselves out v soon. I will pray for you and your family.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Re PB tonight: Shoes, pubic hair and vegan sausage rolls ?! Any chance we can just go back to Brexit?

    *Puts on big shouty teacher voice*

    NO!
    I think you'll find we will soon enough :) Happy to steer clear this week though.

    Back on topic, am I right in thinking German women tend not to shave their armpits - or is that way out of date now?
    Wouldn't know, ask Nigel Farage.

    Edit - oh bollocks, I've changed the conversation back myself!!!!!
    :lol:
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I can't imagine many of the pubic hair fans would prefer women with leg hair or facial hair.

    Obviously it is another difference again but if you prefer women not to have hair in several places where it does (or can) grow naturally then it really isn't that much of a jump to see why they some people might not want it in other places as well.



    Pubic hair performs a useful function beyond the erotic.

    It provides a cushion against friction that can cause skin abrasion and injury, protection from bacteria and other unwanted pathogens. Shaving it can cause injury and may make the skin more vulnerable to herpes infections and genital warts. Hair helps regulate heat and sweating in the area. The hair follicles also have a nerve ending so that when the hair is lightly touched it gives a pleasant sensation.

    I suppose the question for me would be this: why would I want to have sex with a man who wants to have sex with a woman whose genitals look like those of a child?
    More pertinently, why would I want to have sex with a man who does not love me as I am. If he wants me to look like someone else,then he should go and find that someone else.

    I am me, not a work in progress.
    True.

    But I am suspicious of men who aren't at ease with what a grown up woman's body looks like.
    I totally agree.
    Most grown-up women aren't quite at ease with what a grown-up woman's body looks like. Make-up, flattering cuts on dresses etc. They're not at ease with what a grown-up woman's body smells like either - perfume. Japanese women (at least) aren't so happy with what a grown-up woman's body sounds like.

    There are some confusing signals here. I guess we need to be grown-up about it.


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Sympathies, Jonathan - that sounds awful. I find the forum a relaxed place to escape from stresses at times: there is a lot to be said for being among peolple who are friendly but not immediately proximate - close friends and family want to talk about the problems, we just want to talk about...er..pubic hair today, apparently. Who knows what will take our fancy tomorrow and distract us further?

    Re PB tonight: Shoes, pubic hair and vegan sausage rolls ?! Any chance we can just go back to Brexit?
    The topics could be combined perhaps?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    rpjs said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    CD13 said:

    Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.

    Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).

    Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.

    Any body hair is to be deplored below the neck. It is an aesthetic that has come from pornography.
    Personally I have always felt it had more than a touch of pedophilia about. Really distasteful.
    Yes - absolutely agree. Something rather creepy about it.
    It's not modern though. There is a wonderful passage in Ousamah ibn-MUnqidh's Memoirs where a Frank gets his pubes shaved, Arab fashion, by a man at the baths. He's so pleased with the effect he drags this man to his house, orders his wife to strip and gets her pudendum shaved as well. Ousamah, not surprisingly, was rather bemused by this second action!

    And that was in twelfth century Jerusalem!
    I think observant Muslims are requires to shave their body hair, including armpits and pubes. Probably sensible in the context of the desert-living early Muslims.
    Why so? And wouldn't access to sharp razors have been a luxury in the late first millennium?
    Razors were widespread tech from the Stone Age on, but more importantly after the first big shave you can use rough stone, pumice stone for preference, to rub the area and stop hair growing. Monks used both ways for their tonsures.
This discussion has been closed.