politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New polling finds just 28% of GE2017 LAB voters support the pa
Comments
-
By elections are never a good guide to how people will vote at a General Election.HYUFD said:
I can see Labour voters going LD in safe Labour inner city Remain and university town seats where the Tories are little threat. See the Lewisham East by electionAmpfieldAndy said:For Labour voters unhappy with their party’s clueless position on Brexit, the big question is who else are they going to vote for if that position doesn’t change. There is no sign of an exodus to the LibDems who consistently support Remain so Brexit clearly isn’t the be all and end all of determining how they’ll vote. Similarly, it’s difficult to see them voting Tory with the complete abscence of aa domestic policy agenda.
So Labour voters might be unhappy with their party’s position on Brexit but not enough to switch allegiance. In those circumstance, why would Labour change that position ?0 -
Accountants, I suppose.malcolmg said:
Exactly what man ever looks at a woman's shoesgrabcocque said:
I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.Beverley_C said:
Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.0 -
:-)Theuniondivvie said:Didn't ask permission before borrowing them, eh?
Lady Penelope & Parker. One of the classics. More than a match for all that new fangled 'improv' stuff.0 -
forget make-up, what really turns me on is a woman who can write multithreaded code or design a VCO ...
Oddly enough, not many women meet my requirements.0 -
LOL, I did say wellies and bachles were out, unless you are getting your neeps straight from the field. What is this Lidl you speak of.SeanT said:
You haven't met many women, have you, Malc?malcolmg said:
Do you have large price tags on them so people know they were expensive, anybody that chooses you by your shoes should be avoided like the plague unless you are wearing wellies in town or your shoes are absolute bachles.SeanT said:
Er, you're gay.grabcocque said:
I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.Beverley_C said:
Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.
I'm straight. Shoes are absolutely important to me, stilettos on the right occasion can be hugely sexy, but so can Converse and hotpants. I'll stop there.
The same goes both ways of course. I long ago realised a lot of women judge a guy by his shoes, happily I have been able to afford good ones. £300+
Loads of women say the first thing they look at in a man, after his face, is his feet.
Basically if he's wearing trainers (and not actually playing sport) he's going to have to work harder to win her over. Cheap plastic shoes ditto. Sandals and socks, eek no. Crocs generally get the thumbs down (has anyone ever fallen in love with someone wearing crocs)?
From there on, things get better. Riding boots, cowboy boots, motorbike boots can be a turn on, if they suit the man and his age and clothes. The safest bet is a very fine pair of leather oxfords or brogues, and I mention the cost merely because shoes are one place where you can't fake quality cheaply.
Women really do notice this stuff. At least in England. Maybe in Scotland you all wear slippers to go to Lidl to buy your neeps so no one cares?
PS:I bet my wife would make yours look rough even if double her age.0 -
Hypocrisy is the wordStereotomy said:
You think that instead of criticising the Tories for something affecting his constituents in a place the news media cares about he should attack his own party in a place neither cares about? What politician would do that?Big_G_NorthWales said:Watching Sky and BBC all day they have been attacking the rail increases and showing Corbyn demonstrating against the rises at a London Station.
Just watched ITV Wales news with an exact mirror image of the complaints in England but the difference here in Wales is the increase of 2.98% by TFW is labour's responsibility.
Why are you not in Cardiff, Corbyn, or is that too embarrasssing0 -
I know Bob the Drag Queen is 6'7" and size 14 feet
0 -
Far from a stampede of angry Remainers fleeing to the Lib Dems, the latest YouGov actually has proportionally more 2017 LibDem voters jumping to Labour (15%) than Labour voters going the other way (5%).AmpfieldAndy said:For Labour voters unhappy with their party’s clueless position on Brexit, the big question is who else are they going to vote for if that position doesn’t change. There is no sign of an exodus to the LibDems who consistently support Remain so Brexit clearly isn’t the be all and end all of determining how they’ll vote. Similarly, it’s difficult to see them voting Tory with the complete abscence of aa domestic policy agenda.
So Labour voters might be unhappy with their party’s position on Brexit but not enough to switch allegiance. In those circumstance, why would Labour change that position ?0 -
Except for the fact you'd need to earn about 8k a year more (assuming you are a higher rate taxpayer, which I imagine most people forking out 5k a year for a train ticket are). You're then paying an additonal six or seven quid on your Oyster to move around London for the day, plus the cost of getting to and from home assuming you're not living within walking distance. All for the privilege of a probably two to three hour journey each way door to door.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You do express it so well if in your somewhat colourful way. As a example I believe a season ticket Brighton to London is in the region of £5,000. So travelling 5 days a week it is less than £20 a day returnmalcolmg said:
Evening G, it is pathetic crap, why should we pay for rich commuters to go in to London and make huge salaries. If the greedy gets don't like it get a job nearer home, poncy grasping gits.Big_G_NorthWales said:Watching Sky and BBC all day they have been attacking the rail increases and showing Corbyn demonstrating against the rises at a London Station.
Just watched ITV Wales news with an exact mirror image of the complaints in England but the difference here in Wales is the increase of 2.98% by TFW is labour's responsibility.
Why are you not in Cardiff, Corbyn, or is that too embarrasssing
Looks like really good value to me
I've known people on salaries of 50-70k who have commuted that distance at that cost and most of them have agreed it just isn't worth it. They usually move out of the city because they have young kids so those salaries don't go as far as you think.0 -
You can't go wrong with a sturdy pair of leather boots. DMs or Timberlands. Oof.SeanT said:
Women really do notice this stuff. At least in England. Maybe in Scotland you all wear slippers to go to Lidl to buy your neeps so no one cares?0 -
I am hoping the penny will drop with people predicting the penny will drop... the penny seems to be quite stubborn though...Danny565 said:
LOL, how many times have you previously predicted the "penny will drop" / "balloon will go up" for all these Labour Remain voters supposedly obsessed with the EU above all else?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I believe labour supporters do not believe Corbyn backs brexit to the extent he does and when the votes come on TM deal in a couple of weeks, labour mps will have nowhere to hide.Danny565 said:And yet, in spite of this supposed Remainer fury towards Labour, this exact same set of polling has the Lib Dems still stuck at the 7% they polled at the last election....
It is at this point the balloon will go up and with it very serious problems for labour and a possible boost for the lib dems
0 -
That's because nobody can write multithreaded code.JosiasJessop said:forget make-up, what really turns me on is a woman who can write multithreaded code or design a VCO ...
Oddly enough, not many women meet my requirements.
Your dream woman is an AI that will exist 25 years from now.0 -
In my 'what'll I do with the rest of my life after graduating' phase, I worked in a 2nd hand bookshop in Edinburgh. I wore cowboy boots quite a bit then (I know, but it was the '80s) and one bloke kept coming back in to admire them, eventually asking if he could photograph them. Unfortunately this progressed to him phoning up the shop to ask if I was wearing my boots, accompanied by breathy squelching. He had to be warned off by the owner in the end.SeanT said:
I love buying shoes. I dislike buying most other clothes unless I already know exactly what I want. Clothes buying is generally a mild chore for me, which can end badly and remorsefully.Beverley_C said:
I feel for you. Shoes are a joy and men just seem to have either brown or black canoes.Theuniondivvie said:
I spend quite a lot of money on shoes. Unfortunately neither men nor women seem that impressed.Foxy said:
Indeed. Women dress for other women, men buy cars and other trinkets to impress other men. It is about rivalry rather than courting.Cookie said:
Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-upon deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.grabcocque said:
I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.Beverley_C said:
Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.
On the point above, to my eye, a 'look' tailed off my high-heeled shoes can look attractive. But so can a look tailed off by Dr, Marten boots.
And to enlatge on grabcoque's point, fashion in general is inflicted on women by other women.
But shoes, however, Mmm. I know all about them, I know where to get the best, I can afford the best. I've been known to drop a grand on Jermyn Street, in one afternoon of shoe-shopping.
And, uniondivvie, I have had both men and women come up to me, uninvited, and say, "I;m sorry to intrude, but those are lovely shoes." One guy even waxed lyrical about my patina. As they say.
You should come to London more. We appreciate a good brogue.
I've had the occasional compliment on my footwear, but nothing else that extreme.0 -
Commuting to work is not my idea of heaven but for £20 a day return to London it has to be good valuekyf_100 said:
Except for the fact you'd need to earn about 8k a year more (assuming you are a higher rate taxpayer, which I imagine most people forking out 5k a year for a train ticket are). You're then paying an additonal six or seven quid on your Oyster to move around London for the day, plus the cost of getting to and from home assuming you're not living within walking distance. All for the privilege of a probably two to three hour journey each way door to door.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You do express it so well if in your somewhat colourful way. As a example I believe a season ticket Brighton to London is in the region of £5,000. So travelling 5 days a week it is less than £20 a day returnmalcolmg said:
Evening G, it is pathetic crap, why should we pay for rich commuters to go in to London and make huge salaries. If the greedy gets don't like it get a job nearer home, poncy grasping gits.Big_G_NorthWales said:Watching Sky and BBC all day they have been attacking the rail increases and showing Corbyn demonstrating against the rises at a London Station.
Just watched ITV Wales news with an exact mirror image of the complaints in England but the difference here in Wales is the increase of 2.98% by TFW is labour's responsibility.
Why are you not in Cardiff, Corbyn, or is that too embarrasssing
Looks like really good value to me
I've known people on salaries of 50-70k who have commuted that distance at that cost and most of them have agreed it just isn't worth it. They usually move out of the city because they have young kids so those salaries don't go as far as you think.0 -
Ahh PB. The morning thread full of ferry stuff, and the evening thread full of feet fetishists.0
-
Corbyn attacking the fare raises in England, not mentioning the ones in Wales = hypocrisy. You attacking the fare raises in Wales and defending them in England = ???Big_G_NorthWales said:
Hypocrisy is the wordStereotomy said:
You think that instead of criticising the Tories for something affecting his constituents in a place the news media cares about he should attack his own party in a place neither cares about? What politician would do that?Big_G_NorthWales said:Watching Sky and BBC all day they have been attacking the rail increases and showing Corbyn demonstrating against the rises at a London Station.
Just watched ITV Wales news with an exact mirror image of the complaints in England but the difference here in Wales is the increase of 2.98% by TFW is labour's responsibility.
Why are you not in Cardiff, Corbyn, or is that too embarrasssing0 -
If you think multithreaded code needs an AI, then a decent analogue VCO would require an enhanced AI which that AI will spend centuries developing ...grabcocque said:
That's because nobody can write multithreaded code.JosiasJessop said:forget make-up, what really turns me on is a woman who can write multithreaded code or design a VCO ...
Oddly enough, not many women meet my requirements.
Your dream woman is an AI that will exist 25 years from now.
It is the work of magicians and witches. 0 -
Do not be too sure of that. I wrote code like that for years, but I have retired from it now.grabcocque said:
That's because nobody can write multithreaded code.JosiasJessop said:forget make-up, what really turns me on is a woman who can write multithreaded code or design a VCO ...
Oddly enough, not many women meet my requirements.
Your dream woman is an AI that will exist 25 years from now.0 -
Verhofstadt clearly enjoyed Sadie Khan's New Year fireworks display
https://mobile.twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/10801673797102141440 -
JJ, seek helpJosiasJessop said:forget make-up, what really turns me on is a woman who can write multithreaded code or design a VCO ...
Oddly enough, not many women meet my requirements.0 -
I would imagine that’s for reasons other than Brexit - either disenchantment with Cable or fooled by Corbyn’s unfunded spending promises.Danny565 said:
Far from a stampede of angry Remainers fleeing to the Lib Dems, the latest YouGov actually has proportionally more 2017 LibDem voters jumping to Labour (15%) than Labour voters going the other way (5%).AmpfieldAndy said:For Labour voters unhappy with their party’s clueless position on Brexit, the big question is who else are they going to vote for if that position doesn’t change. There is no sign of an exodus to the LibDems who consistently support Remain so Brexit clearly isn’t the be all and end all of determining how they’ll vote. Similarly, it’s difficult to see them voting Tory with the complete abscence of aa domestic policy agenda.
So Labour voters might be unhappy with their party’s position on Brexit but not enough to switch allegiance. In those circumstance, why would Labour change that position ?0 -
Subsidised by us poor taxpayers GBig_G_NorthWales said:
Commuting to work is not my idea of heaven but for £20 a day return to London it has to be good valuekyf_100 said:
Except for the fact you'd need to earn about 8k a year more (assuming you are a higher rate taxpayer, which I imagine most people forking out 5k a year for a train ticket are). You're then paying an additonal six or seven quid on your Oyster to move around London for the day, plus the cost of getting to and from home assuming you're not living within walking distance. All for the privilege of a probably two to three hour journey each way door to door.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You do express it so well if in your somewhat colourful way. As a example I believe a season ticket Brighton to London is in the region of £5,000. So travelling 5 days a week it is less than £20 a day returnmalcolmg said:
Evening G, it is pathetic crap, why should we pay for rich commuters to go in to London and make huge salaries. If the greedy gets don't like it get a job nearer home, poncy grasping gits.Big_G_NorthWales said:Watching Sky and BBC all day they have been attacking the rail increases and showing Corbyn demonstrating against the rises at a London Station.
Just watched ITV Wales news with an exact mirror image of the complaints in England but the difference here in Wales is the increase of 2.98% by TFW is labour's responsibility.
Why are you not in Cardiff, Corbyn, or is that too embarrasssing
Looks like really good value to me
I've known people on salaries of 50-70k who have commuted that distance at that cost and most of them have agreed it just isn't worth it. They usually move out of the city because they have young kids so those salaries don't go as far as you think.0 -
Too late... much too late ...malcolmg said:
JJ, seek helpJosiasJessop said:forget make-up, what really turns me on is a woman who can write multithreaded code or design a VCO ...
Oddly enough, not many women meet my requirements. 0 -
I am seriously impressed that so many people have been able to work out what Labour's position on Brexit is.0
-
Undeniably true. Then again, emotional intimacy is no substitute for high heels.kyf_100 said:In short, high heels are no substitute for emotional intimacy.
And I agree, nice change from Brexit.
My venal prejudice?
I don't trust men with very neat goatees (unless they are also short and/or bald).0 -
Trump tells Romney to be a team player saying he won big and Romney didn't
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/10804470928821125120 -
Absolutely Sean, I have had that hassle for 40+ years, or my wife has. We are both very fortunate. A Very Happy New to you too. I do buy decent shoes as well.SeanT said:
lol. We must agree to differ. I am sure your wife is very lovely. My 23 year old wife, I have to say, IS genuinely an absolute stunner, the trouble with that is men (and women) constantly come on to her, so she has to bat them off. She's the kind of woman men rush up to on the street, begging for her number, I've seen it.malcolmg said:
LOL, I did say wellies and bachles were out, unless you are getting your neeps straight from the field. What is this Lidl you speak of.SeanT said:
You haven't met many women, have you, Malc?malcolmg said:
Do you have large price tags on them so people know they were expensive, anybody that chooses you by your shoes should be avoided like the plague unless you are wearing wellies in town or your shoes are absolute bachles.SeanT said:
Er, you're gay.grabcocque said:
I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.Beverley_C said:
Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.
I'm straight. Shoes are absolutely important to me, stilettos on the right occasion can be hugely sexy, but so can Converse and hotpants. I'll stop there.
The same goes both ways of course. I long ago realised a lot of women judge a guy by his shoes, happily I have been able to afford good ones. £300+
Loads of women say the first thing they look at in a man, after his face, is his feet.
Basically if he's wearing trainers (and not actually playing sport) he's going to have to work harder to win her over. Cheap plastic shoes ditto. Sandals and socks, eek no. Crocs generally get the thumbs down (has anyone ever fallen in love with someone wearing crocs)?
Women really do notice this stuff. At least in England. Maybe in Scotland you all wear slippers to go to Lidl to buy your neeps so no one cares?
PS:I bet my wife would make yours look rough even if double her age.
The other trouble with this is that I know I've peaked. I'll never have another woman as lovely as this, it is surely impossible. But at least I did it once.
Anyway, let us both rejoice in our good fortune, and a Happy New Year to you, old boy.0 -
Or they like his anti-semitic stance on Israel......AmpfieldAndy said:
I would imagine that’s for reasons other than Brexit - either disenchantment with Cable or fooled by Corbyn’s unfunded spending promises.Danny565 said:
Far from a stampede of angry Remainers fleeing to the Lib Dems, the latest YouGov actually has proportionally more 2017 LibDem voters jumping to Labour (15%) than Labour voters going the other way (5%).AmpfieldAndy said:For Labour voters unhappy with their party’s clueless position on Brexit, the big question is who else are they going to vote for if that position doesn’t change. There is no sign of an exodus to the LibDems who consistently support Remain so Brexit clearly isn’t the be all and end all of determining how they’ll vote. Similarly, it’s difficult to see them voting Tory with the complete abscence of aa domestic policy agenda.
So Labour voters might be unhappy with their party’s position on Brexit but not enough to switch allegiance. In those circumstance, why would Labour change that position ?0 -
Looks only go so far. The absolute killer beyond all others (for me) is smell. I have no objection to a man who smells like a man, but BO, stale sweat, bad breath or overpowering aftershave are beyond the pale. It does not matter what he looks like, how he dresses or how much money he waves around.SeanT said:Loads of women say the first thing they look at in a man, after his face, is his feet.
0 -
There was a recent article from Stephen Bush in the Times suggesting that his support base will stick with him, because they like his left wing record, despite disagreeing about the EU.AlastairMeeks said:Looks more than a bit risky to me to fail to convince your support base on something that strikes closer to their identity than party allegiance.
0 -
Pots and kettles though isn’t it. The idea of Trump as a team player is risible.HYUFD said:Trump tells Romney to be a team player saying he won big and Romney didn't
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/10804470928821125120 -
Depends, the big LD gains of 1997 and 2005 reflected by election gains in the previous parliamentsAmpfieldAndy said:
By elections are never a good guide to how people will vote at a General Election.HYUFD said:
I can see Labour voters going LD in safe Labour inner city Remain and university town seats where the Tories are little threat. See the Lewisham East by electionAmpfieldAndy said:For Labour voters unhappy with their party’s clueless position on Brexit, the big question is who else are they going to vote for if that position doesn’t change. There is no sign of an exodus to the LibDems who consistently support Remain so Brexit clearly isn’t the be all and end all of determining how they’ll vote. Similarly, it’s difficult to see them voting Tory with the complete abscence of aa domestic policy agenda.
So Labour voters might be unhappy with their party’s position on Brexit but not enough to switch allegiance. In those circumstance, why would Labour change that position ?0 -
I agree with you there, £20 is not a lot when taken as a single journey but trying to put myself in the position of a middle class earner who has moved out to Brighton or the like because they have kids and want to get on the property ladder, I can understand why they are hopping mad about every fare rise.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Commuting to work is not my idea of heaven but for £20 a day return to London it has to be good valuekyf_100 said:
Except for the fact you'd need to earn about 8k a year more (assuming you are a higher rate taxpayer, which I imagine most people forking out 5k a year for a train ticket are). You're then paying an additonal six or seven quid on your Oyster to move around London for the day, plus the cost of getting to and from home assuming you're not living within walking distance. All for the privilege of a probably two to three hour journey each way door to door.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You do express it so well if in your somewhat colourful way. As a example I believe a season ticket Brighton to London is in the region of £5,000. So travelling 5 days a week it is less than £20 a day returnmalcolmg said:
Evening G, it is pathetic crap, why should we pay for rich commuters to go in to London and make huge salaries. If the greedy gets don't like it get a job nearer home, poncy grasping gits.Big_G_NorthWales said:Watching Sky and BBC all day they have been attacking the rail increases and showing Corbyn demonstrating against the rises at a London Station.
Just watched ITV Wales news with an exact mirror image of the complaints in England but the difference here in Wales is the increase of 2.98% by TFW is labour's responsibility.
Why are you not in Cardiff, Corbyn, or is that too embarrasssing
Looks like really good value to me
I've known people on salaries of 50-70k who have commuted that distance at that cost and most of them have agreed it just isn't worth it. They usually move out of the city because they have young kids so those salaries don't go as far as you think.
I've said it before, but Corbynism is a very middle class rebellion. From the swathes of students protesting tuition fees to the twenty somethings who can't get on the property ladder (how socialist is that?) to middle class commuters demanding subsidised rail fares. Corbynism is of and for the middle classes.0 -
They should be shot on sightkinabalu said:
Undeniably true. Then again, emotional intimacy is no substitute for high heels.kyf_100 said:In short, high heels are no substitute for emotional intimacy.
And I agree, nice change from Brexit.
My venal prejudice?
I don't trust men with very neat goatees (unless they are also short and/or bald).0 -
I think he may allow enough Labour MPs to back the Deal to get it passed then push a VONC again with the DUP behind it rather than go for EUref2grabcocque said:
Do you think he will, though? If/when he loses a VONC in the government, there's really nowhere else for Corbyn to hide.HYUFD said:The fact 57% of Labour voters back a second EU referendum offers a clear opportunity for the LDs if Corbyn sticks to his stance of opposing one
0 -
Some middle class Remainers may go LD though if Corbyn sticks with Brexit and opposing EUref2Sean_F said:
There was a recent article from Stephen Bush in the Times suggesting that his support base will stick with him, because they like his left wing record, despite disagreeing about the EU.AlastairMeeks said:Looks more than a bit risky to me to fail to convince your support base on something that strikes closer to their identity than party allegiance.
0 -
They may, but how many competitive Lab/Lib Dem seats are there?HYUFD said:
Some middle class Remainers may go LD though if Corbyn sticks with Brexit and opposing EUref2Sean_F said:
There was a recent article from Stephen Bush in the Times suggesting that his support base will stick with him, because they like his left wing record, despite disagreeing about the EU.AlastairMeeks said:Looks more than a bit risky to me to fail to convince your support base on something that strikes closer to their identity than party allegiance.
0 -
No - I agree with the fare rises in both England and Wales. I am not a hypocriteStereotomy said:
Corbyn attacking the fare raises in England, not mentioning the ones in Wales = hypocrisy. You attacking the fare raises in Wales and defending them in England = ???Big_G_NorthWales said:
Hypocrisy is the wordStereotomy said:
You think that instead of criticising the Tories for something affecting his constituents in a place the news media cares about he should attack his own party in a place neither cares about? What politician would do that?Big_G_NorthWales said:Watching Sky and BBC all day they have been attacking the rail increases and showing Corbyn demonstrating against the rises at a London Station.
Just watched ITV Wales news with an exact mirror image of the complaints in England but the difference here in Wales is the increase of 2.98% by TFW is labour's responsibility.
Why are you not in Cardiff, Corbyn, or is that too embarrasssing0 -
If Corbyn continues to disappoint his base over Brexit, is he vulnerable to another leadership challenge?0
-
He is safe for as long as he has McCluskey’s support.not_on_fire said:If Corbyn continues to disappoint his base over Brexit, is he vulnerable to another leadership challenge?
0 -
Seems I've missed out on the PB fashion edition just now while on the old thread debating the Jews with a leftie, surprise surprise.
I feel in no way qualified to discuss fashion but as for shoes isn't it the heels that are the most important/giveaway?0 -
Because London is more important than Cardiff.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Why are you not in Cardiff, Corbyn, or is that too embarrasssing0 -
I think it's good manners to look presentable in public, and sensible. Who would want to take legal advice from someone who looks like a slob, and smells like a fart?Cyclefree said:
I never said I did speak for all women. I speak only for myself.JosiasJessop said:
You don't speak for all women. Mrs J wears make-up very infrequently: I nearly fainted with surprise when she nipped into a Debenhams to ask which lipstick suited her. The lipstick was purchased, and was used once.Cyclefree said:
Bless. You do realise that all those women looking "natural" are in fact wearing make up designed to make it look as if they aren't wearing make up. There are even "nude" lipsticks.Cookie said:
Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-upon deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.grabcocque said:
I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.Beverley_C said:
Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.
On the point above, to my eye, a 'look' tailed off my high-heeled shoes can look attractive. But so can a look tailed off by Dr, Marten boots.
And to enlatge on grabcoque's point, fashion in general is inflicted on women by other women.
The reason she does not need it, of course, is that she is naturally beautiful.
Our dressing table is sagging under the weight of hair products: then again, she does have the devil's curly hair ...
I do think - and I realise it is the Italian in me - that one ought to look presentable when out in public. Some people are absolute eye sores.0 -
It shouldn't really be that shocking. Plenty of Tory remainers have stuck around, I'd suggest many of those that haven't would have done if they liked the direction they thought the party was heading in and only disliked Brexit.Sean_F said:
There was a recent article from Stephen Bush in the Times suggesting that his support base will stick with him, because they like his left wing record, despite disagreeing about the EU.AlastairMeeks said:Looks more than a bit risky to me to fail to convince your support base on something that strikes closer to their identity than party allegiance.
I think no deal is a stupid thing to aim for but I'd happily vote Labour tomorrow with that as the parties EU policy.0 -
Get out of town. McDonnell wants to overthrow capitalism and free market economics. There is nothing remotely middle class about that.kyf_100 said:
I agree with you there, £20 is not a lot when taken as a single journey but trying to put myself in the position of a middle class earner who has moved out to Brighton or the like because they have kids and want to get on the property ladder, I can understand why they are hopping mad about every fare rise.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Commuting to work is not my idea of heaven but for £20 a day return to London it has to be good valuekyf_100 said:
Except for the fact you'd need to earn about 8k a year more (assuming you are a higher rate taxpayer, which I imagine most people forking out 5k a year for a train ticket are). You're then paying an additonal six or seven quid on your Oyster to move around London for the day, plus the cost of getting to and from home assuming you're not living within walking distance. All for the privilege of a probably two to three hour journey each way door to door.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You do express it so well if in your somewhat colourful way. As a example I believe a season ticket Brighton to London is in the region of £5,000. So travelling 5 days a week it is less than £20 a day returnmalcolmg said:
Evening G, it is pathetic crap, why should we pay for rich commuters to go in to London and make huge salaries. If the greedy gets don't like it get a job nearer home, poncy grasping gits.Big_G_NorthWales said:Watching Sky and BBC all day they have been attacking the rail increases and showing Corbyn demonstrating against the rises at a London Station.
Just watched ITV Wales news with an exact mirror image of the complaints in England but the difference here in Wales is the increase of 2.98% by TFW is labour's responsibility.
Why are you not in Cardiff, Corbyn, or is that too embarrasssing
Looks like really good value to me
I've known people on salaries of 50-70k who have commuted that distance at that cost and most of them have agreed it just isn't worth it. They usually move out of the city because they have young kids so those salaries don't go as far as you think.
I've said it before, but Corbynism is a very middle class rebellion. From the swathes of students protesting tuition fees to the twenty somethings who can't get on the property ladder (how socialist is that?) to middle class commuters demanding subsidised rail fares. Corbynism is of and for the middle classes.
Corbynism is a fools paradise.0 -
TBH Big G I can't help but feel if he did start attacking others in the party that disagree with him on policy that you may find fault in that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No - I agree with the fare rises in both England and Wales. I am not a hypocriteStereotomy said:
Corbyn attacking the fare raises in England, not mentioning the ones in Wales = hypocrisy. You attacking the fare raises in Wales and defending them in England = ???Big_G_NorthWales said:
Hypocrisy is the wordStereotomy said:
You think that instead of criticising the Tories for something affecting his constituents in a place the news media cares about he should attack his own party in a place neither cares about? What politician would do that?Big_G_NorthWales said:Watching Sky and BBC all day they have been attacking the rail increases and showing Corbyn demonstrating against the rises at a London Station.
Just watched ITV Wales news with an exact mirror image of the complaints in England but the difference here in Wales is the increase of 2.98% by TFW is labour's responsibility.
Why are you not in Cardiff, Corbyn, or is that too embarrasssing
A lot of the complaints about Corbyn often centre on him being too willing to criticise and go against other parts of Labour. Although the more hardcore of his fanbase might agree with you!0 -
Applying Occam's razor, it seems to me that Corbyn's behaviour is best explained by the fact that he approves Brexit.anothernick said:
Both.Foxy said:
I don't think that really so. Existing rules do allow for significant state support (via regional industrial policy for example) and a customs union, and indeed WTO rules also work against such subsidy.Slackbladder said:
He wants a no-deal Brexit to form his marxist utopia. It's as simple as that.Beverley_C said:
He is barking mad IMO. Has he not been paying attention or is this just the usual Marxist-detached-from-reality thing?FrancisUrquhart said:Its ok Jezza's on the case,
“What we will do is vote against having no deal, we’ll vote against Theresa May’s deal; at that point she should go back to Brussels and say this is not acceptable to Britain and renegotiate a customs union, form a customs union with the European Union to secure trade,” he said.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/02/corbyn-tells-may-to-strike-new-brexit-deal-labour-can-back
More likely Jezza is either uninterested in the EU, or thick, or both.
Brexiteers who have spent their lives obsessing about the EU tend to see Corbyn as one of them on this topic a la Kate Hoey but that is not really true IMO, he does not see it as a talismanic issue and does not care much about it either way. In the end he will have to listen to the views of his party - as he did at the referendum and has also done on other issues where he is in a clear minority such as Trident.0 -
The LDs won quite a few in 2005 after the Iraq War, most of those seats voted strongly Remain tooSean_F said:
They may, but how many competitive Lab/Lib Dem seats are there?HYUFD said:
Some middle class Remainers may go LD though if Corbyn sticks with Brexit and opposing EUref2Sean_F said:
There was a recent article from Stephen Bush in the Times suggesting that his support base will stick with him, because they like his left wing record, despite disagreeing about the EU.AlastairMeeks said:Looks more than a bit risky to me to fail to convince your support base on something that strikes closer to their identity than party allegiance.
0 -
Dress is meaningless in itself and a very bad barometer of character.0
-
Which look best when nothing else is being worn.Philip_Thompson said:
The only time I've ever heard men speak about women's shoes is in the case of eg knee-high boots.grabcocque said:
I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.Beverley_C said:
Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.
0 -
Vanguardism has been an essential part of revolutionary theory since Engels and Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto. The idea of a politically enlightened elite leading the workers to revolution was further developed by Lenin (who was right about everything) in What is to be Done?AmpfieldAndy said:
Get out of town. McDonnell wants to overthrow capitalism and free market economics. There is nothing remotely middle class about that.
Corbynism is a fools paradise.0 -
Trump is having an epic rant on US TV at the moment. “I don’t care about Europe. I’m not elected by Europeans.”
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1080541772974039041?s=210 -
I am off the booze for the foreseeable Malcolm, certainly till the end of this month and then it will be tiptoes. I wouldn't go through what I went through on the 30th for anything. It hurt.malcolmg said:
You fully recovered yet David, a nice bottle of Red needed I think. Don't listen to Doctor's telling you it is bad for you.DavidL said:I am seriously impressed that so many people have been able to work out what Labour's position on Brexit is.
0 -
The problem for him is that exactly the same problems on the rail rises and the NHS he blames on the government, but here in Wales his labour party is following the same pathwayTheJezziah said:
TBH Big G I can't help but feel if he did start attacking others in the party that disagree with him on policy that you may find fault in that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No - I agree with the fare rises in both England and Wales. I am not a hypocriteStereotomy said:
Corbyn attacking the fare raises in England, not mentioning the ones in Wales = hypocrisy. You attacking the fare raises in Wales and defending them in England = ???Big_G_NorthWales said:
Hypocrisy is the wordStereotomy said:
You think that instead of criticising the Tories for something affecting his constituents in a place the news media cares about he should attack his own party in a place neither cares about? What politician would do that?Big_G_NorthWales said:Watching Sky and BBC all day they have been attacking the rail increases and showing Corbyn demonstrating against the rises at a London Station.
Just watched ITV Wales news with an exact mirror image of the complaints in England but the difference here in Wales is the increase of 2.98% by TFW is labour's responsibility.
Why are you not in Cardiff, Corbyn, or is that too embarrasssing
A lot of the complaints about Corbyn often centre on him being too willing to criticise and go against other parts of Labour. Although the more hardcore of his fanbase might agree with you!0 -
Nah, no sign of that switch happening, more's the pity.HYUFD said:The fact 57% of Labour voters back a second EU referendum offers a clear opportunity for the LDs if Corbyn sticks to his stance of opposing one
Remainers are sticking by Labour, because they clearly are less hardline than the Tories on the subject.0 -
He is a relic, 30 - 40 years out of his time, he should be moved to a museum. These idiots are the mirror opposite of the nasty party and will be even worse for the country than the Tories.TheJezziah said:
TBH Big G I can't help but feel if he did start attacking others in the party that disagree with him on policy that you may find fault in that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No - I agree with the fare rises in both England and Wales. I am not a hypocriteStereotomy said:
Corbyn attacking the fare raises in England, not mentioning the ones in Wales = hypocrisy. You attacking the fare raises in Wales and defending them in England = ???Big_G_NorthWales said:
Hypocrisy is the wordStereotomy said:
You think that instead of criticising the Tories for something affecting his constituents in a place the news media cares about he should attack his own party in a place neither cares about? What politician would do that?Big_G_NorthWales said:Watching Sky and BBC all day they have been attacking the rail increases and showing Corbyn demonstrating against the rises at a London Station.
Just watched ITV Wales news with an exact mirror image of the complaints in England but the difference here in Wales is the increase of 2.98% by TFW is labour's responsibility.
Why are you not in Cardiff, Corbyn, or is that too embarrasssing
A lot of the complaints about Corbyn often centre on him being too willing to criticise and go against other parts of Labour. Although the more hardcore of his fanbase might agree with you!0 -
Turning (with enormous regret) from women's shoes to Jeremy Corbyn and Brexit, there is a point I've made before but will do so again since I'm not yet tired of it.
If the next GE is post Brexit (as I think it will be), the votes he got in 2017 purely from fervent Remain sentiment, will be lost to him regardless of what position on the EU he takes now.
Shifting to please them, and risking the loss of more agnostic and/or leave voters in target seats in the Midlands and the North, therefore makes no sense.0 -
Except that Lenin impoverished Russia, imposed a dictatorship by murdering his rivals and opponents and quashing political debate. Not very enlightened imo which is probably why Gorbachev and Yeltsin changed tack.Dura_Ace said:
Vanguardism has been an essential part of revolutionary theory since Engels and Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto. The idea of a politically enlightened elite leading the workers to revolution was further developed by Lenin (who was right about everything) in What is to be Done?AmpfieldAndy said:
Get out of town. McDonnell wants to overthrow capitalism and free market economics. There is nothing remotely middle class about that.
Corbynism is a fools paradise.0 -
now you are talkingSean_F said:
Which look best when nothing else is being worn.Philip_Thompson said:
The only time I've ever heard men speak about women's shoes is in the case of eg knee-high boots.grabcocque said:
I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.Beverley_C said:
Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.0 -
On Topic more Labour voters support Corbyns BREXIT stance than oppose it.
More Tory voters oppose Mays BREXIT stance than support it.
Exactly as Mike says!!!0 -
After a bit of fiddling I have put together a UNS table for the Canadian Federal election and can tell you that the most recent poll translates to:
Liberals 165 seats (-19)
Conservative 124 seats (+25)
NPD 37 seats (-7)
Green 1 seats (+0)
BQ 11 seats (+1)
Whereas the best poll for the Conservatives produces:
Liberals 140 seats (-44)
Conservative 143 seats (+44)
NPD 40 seats (-4)
Green 1 seats (+0)
BQ 14 seats (+4)
Note that the new PPC is not modelled and the modelling of the BQ is not great.
0 -
Hard to say the lot of the average Russian was much better before the revolution though, I'd suggest.AmpfieldAndy said:
Except that Lenin improvershed Russia, imposed a dictatorship by murdering his rivals and opponents and quashing political debate. Not very enlightened imo.Dura_Ace said:
Vanguardism has been an essential part of revolutionary theory since Engels and Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto. The idea of a politically enlightened elite leading the workers to revolution was further developed by Lenin (who was right about everything) in What is to be Done?AmpfieldAndy said:
Get out of town. McDonnell wants to overthrow capitalism and free market economics. There is nothing remotely middle class about that.
Corbynism is a fools paradise.0 -
In evolution, dogs do not compete with cats: cats compete with other cats to survive the dogs, and dogs compete with other dogs to prey on the cats. Subgroup A, when faced with an external threat or scarce resources, will cheerfully throw Subgroup B to the wolves. This is the cause of things like "women beware women".Foxy said:
Indeed. Women dress for other women, men buy cars and other trinkets to impress other men. It is about rivalry rather than courting.Cookie said:
Ooh, while we're on about that sort of thing, if I can join in with generalising wildly from myself to 'men', men also find women's need to put make-upon deeply baffling. A face with make-up on almost never looks as good as a clean face. And in particular, a mouth with lipstick always looks less attractive than a clean mouth.grabcocque said:
I can say with absolute certainty men do not care what footwear you have on. Heels are inflicted on women by other women.Beverley_C said:
Shoes make the outfit. The wrong shoes can completely ruin a look. The right shoes can set it off perfectly. Men never seem to understand that. They all seem to think we should be tottering about in 6" heels.
On the point above, to my eye, a 'look' tailed off my high-heeled shoes can look attractive. But so can a look tailed off by Dr, Marten boots.
And to enlatge on grabcoque's point, fashion in general is inflicted on women by other women.
Although solidarity in theory affords a better survival strategy, sacrifice of more vulnerable members also works. The world is not as nice as I would wish.0 -
Difficult to make a credible case that it was worse.Benpointer said:
Hard to say the lot of the average Russian was much better before the revolution though, I'd suggest.AmpfieldAndy said:
Except that Lenin improvershed Russia, imposed a dictatorship by murdering his rivals and opponents and quashing political debate. Not very enlightened imo.Dura_Ace said:
Vanguardism has been an essential part of revolutionary theory since Engels and Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto. The idea of a politically enlightened elite leading the workers to revolution was further developed by Lenin (who was right about everything) in What is to be Done?AmpfieldAndy said:
Get out of town. McDonnell wants to overthrow capitalism and free market economics. There is nothing remotely middle class about that.
Corbynism is a fools paradise.0 -
Irrelevant. The point remains, contrary to your assertion, that revolutionary socialism is essentially a bourgeois directed project in theory and praxis.AmpfieldAndy said:
Except that Lenin impoverished Russia, imposed a dictatorship by murdering his rivals and opponents and quashing political debate. Not very enlightened imo which is probably why Gorbachev and Yeltsin changed tack.Dura_Ace said:
Vanguardism has been an essential part of revolutionary theory since Engels and Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto. The idea of a politically enlightened elite leading the workers to revolution was further developed by Lenin (who was right about everything) in What is to be Done?AmpfieldAndy said:
Get out of town. McDonnell wants to overthrow capitalism and free market economics. There is nothing remotely middle class about that.
Corbynism is a fools paradise.0 -
In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.
Thank fook for that.0 -
Not that many. But squeezing Labour voters would allow the Lib Dems to win back much of the West Country. Take a lookSean_F said:
They may, but how many competitive Lab/Lib Dem seats are there?HYUFD said:
Some middle class Remainers may go LD though if Corbyn sticks with Brexit and opposing EUref2Sean_F said:
There was a recent article from Stephen Bush in the Times suggesting that his support base will stick with him, because they like his left wing record, despite disagreeing about the EU.AlastairMeeks said:Looks more than a bit risky to me to fail to convince your support base on something that strikes closer to their identity than party allegiance.
0 -
Ah yes, hair.NickPalmer said:
+1. I grew up in Denmark where women largely agreed with what you say, and found the whole rigmarole that they observed in France and Britain completely perplexing. The more political ones also found it repellent in terms of accepting a sexist role - "Why should women make a special effort to dress to please men when men don't do the same?".Cookie said:
I've come to feel relaxed about it - if people want to make an effort to look good and feel happy in the results, why not? But I also think it's largely done for personal and peer satisfaction, in the same way as some men like to cultivate a finely-trimmed beard. The exception is hairstyle, which I think does make a major difference to how people look for both sexes and is worth taking time to consider what you want.
How many women dye their hair? And why?
Well, ask yourself this: if you were dating, would you choose a woman who had silver hair - however gorgeous and well kept and well cut - and however lovely her face, however engaging her personality, blah blah?
And be honest in your answers.
Men may not look at make up or what women wear or even their shoes (though I am sceptical - or perhaps it is just the men I know) but they do look at women's hair. And silver hair - even if you went silver in your 30's - means "old" and no man (or very few of them) want old or older women.
I will put my cards on the table. I have silver hair - gorgeous it is. But I am unique among my peers. And it - to some extent - helped in my job. Looking older and experienced and wise and like someone's mother and, if necessary, like a witch was very useful when interrogating some over-entitled overpaid toerag.
But pretty much every senior woman I have ever encountered, plenty of them older than me, did the opposite to me. If women care about their appearance, it's because they are often judged on their appearance - even in contexts where this should not matter and even when working with men who claim to be above such superficial issues.0 -
Not really. The February Revolution was a totally artificial construction that Lenin devised simply to hold true to Marx. Nothing much bourgeois about the French Revolution either or the European revolutions of 1848.Dura_Ace said:
Irrelevant. The point remains, contrary to your assertion, that revolutionary socialism is essentially a bourgeois directed project in theory and praxis.AmpfieldAndy said:
Except that Lenin impoverished Russia, imposed a dictatorship by murdering his rivals and opponents and quashing political debate. Not very enlightened imo which is probably why Gorbachev and Yeltsin changed tack.Dura_Ace said:
Vanguardism has been an essential part of revolutionary theory since Engels and Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto. The idea of a politically enlightened elite leading the workers to revolution was further developed by Lenin (who was right about everything) in What is to be Done?AmpfieldAndy said:
Get out of town. McDonnell wants to overthrow capitalism and free market economics. There is nothing remotely middle class about that.
Corbynism is a fools paradise.0 -
I will put my cards on the table - I am 43 and still singleCyclefree said:
Ah yes, hair.NickPalmer said:
+1. I grew up in Denmark where women largely agreed with what you say, and found the whole rigmarole that they observed in France and Britain completely perplexing. The more political ones also found it repellent in terms of accepting a sexist role - "Why should women make a special effort to dress to please men when men don't do the same?".Cookie said:
I've come to feel relaxed about it - if people want to make an effort to look good and feel happy in the results, why not? But I also think it's largely done for personal and peer satisfaction, in the same way as some men like to cultivate a finely-trimmed beard. The exception is hairstyle, which I think does make a major difference to how people look for both sexes and is worth taking time to consider what you want.
How many women dye their hair? And why?
Well, ask yourself this: if you were dating, would you choose a woman who had silver hair - however gorgeous and well kept and well cut - and however lovely her face, however engaging her personality, blah blah?
And be honest in your answers.
Men may not look at make up or what women wear or even their shoes (though I am sceptical - or perhaps it is just the men I know) but they do look at women's hair. And silver hair - even if you went silver in your 30's - means "old" and no man (or very few of them) want old or older women.
I will put my cards on the table. I have silver hair - gorgeous it is. But I am unique among my peers. And it - to some extent - helped in my job. Looking older and experienced and wise and like someone's mother and, if necessary, like a witch was very useful when interrogating some over-entitled overpaid toerag.
But pretty much every senior woman I have ever encountered, plenty of them older than me, did the opposite to me. If women care about their appearance, it's because they are often judged on their appearance - even in contexts where this should not matter and even when working with men who claim to be above such superficial issues.
0 -
Great news BJO. Delighted to hear that.bigjohnowls said:In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.
Thank fook for that.0 -
Tactical voting by both LD and Lab voters was a key part of the 97 landslide, and needs to be repeated, but you are wrong. In the West Country, and indeed even in constituencies like Harborough, Lab are often way ahead of the LDs. Corbynism is not just an urban, student phenomenon.Fenman said:
Not that many. But squeezing Labour voters would allow the Lib Dems to win back much of the West Country. Take a lookSean_F said:
They may, but how many competitive Lab/Lib Dem seats are there?HYUFD said:
Some middle class Remainers may go LD though if Corbyn sticks with Brexit and opposing EUref2Sean_F said:
There was a recent article from Stephen Bush in the Times suggesting that his support base will stick with him, because they like his left wing record, despite disagreeing about the EU.AlastairMeeks said:Looks more than a bit risky to me to fail to convince your support base on something that strikes closer to their identity than party allegiance.
0 -
Weren't you celebrating the other day the Welsh government handing out a 15 year franchise and how it showed they had no faith in national Labour...Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem for him is that exactly the same problems on the rail rises and the NHS he blames on the government, but here in Wales his labour party is following the same pathwayTheJezziah said:
TBH Big G I can't help but feel if he did start attacking others in the party that disagree with him on policy that you may find fault in that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No - I agree with the fare rises in both England and Wales. I am not a hypocriteStereotomy said:
Corbyn attacking the fare raises in England, not mentioning the ones in Wales = hypocrisy. You attacking the fare raises in Wales and defending them in England = ???Big_G_NorthWales said:
Hypocrisy is the wordStereotomy said:
You think that instead of criticising the Tories for something affecting his constituents in a place the news media cares about he should attack his own party in a place neither cares about? What politician would do that?Big_G_NorthWales said:Watching Sky and BBC all day they have been attacking the rail increases and showing Corbyn demonstrating against the rises at a London Station.
Just watched ITV Wales news with an exact mirror image of the complaints in England but the difference here in Wales is the increase of 2.98% by TFW is labour's responsibility.
Why are you not in Cardiff, Corbyn, or is that too embarrasssing
A lot of the complaints about Corbyn often centre on him being too willing to criticise and go against other parts of Labour. Although the more hardcore of his fanbase might agree with you!
Can't have it both ways.0 -
I've always found attractive older women very appealing, especially as I get older. Silver hair and high cheekbones are a great combination.Cyclefree said:
Ah yes, hair.NickPalmer said:
+1. I grew up in Denmark where women largely agreed with what you say, and found the whole rigmarole that they observed in France and Britain completely perplexing. The more political ones also found it repellent in terms of accepting a sexist role - "Why should women make a special effort to dress to please men when men don't do the same?".Cookie said:
I've come to feel relaxed about it - if people want to make an effort to look good and feel happy in the results, why not? But I also think it's largely done for personal and peer satisfaction, in the same way as some men like to cultivate a finely-trimmed beard. The exception is hairstyle, which I think does make a major difference to how people look for both sexes and is worth taking time to consider what you want.
How many women dye their hair? And why?
Well, ask yourself this: if you were dating, would you choose a woman who had silver hair - however gorgeous and well kept and well cut - and however lovely her face, however engaging her personality, blah blah?
And be honest in your answers.
Men may not look at make up or what women wear or even their shoes (though I am sceptical - or perhaps it is just the men I know) but they do look at women's hair. And silver hair - even if you went silver in your 30's - means "old" and no man (or very few of them) want old or older women.
I will put my cards on the table. I have silver hair - gorgeous it is. But I am unique among my peers. And it - to some extent - helped in my job. Looking older and experienced and wise and like someone's mother and, if necessary, like a witch was very useful when interrogating some over-entitled overpaid toerag.
But pretty much every senior woman I have ever encountered, plenty of them older than me, did the opposite to me. If women care about their appearance, it's because they are often judged on their appearance - even in contexts where this should not matter and even when working with men who claim to be above such superficial issues.0 -
Really pleased to hear that BJO. Best wishes to you both.bigjohnowls said:In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.
Thank fook for that.0 -
Oh good news!bigjohnowls said:In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.
Thank fook for that.0 -
Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.
Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).
Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.0 -
Long and/or dirty fingernails, yuk.Beverley_C said:
Looks only go so far. The absolute killer beyond all others (for me) is smell. I have no objection to a man who smells like a man, but BO, stale sweat, bad breath or overpowering aftershave are beyond the pale. It does not matter what he looks like, how he dresses or how much money he waves around.SeanT said:Loads of women say the first thing they look at in a man, after his face, is his feet.
On the other hand, if you're Monty Don and your hands (and he does have lovely large hands) are a bit dirty from messing about in the garden, then come round to my house NOW. Oh - and don't forget to bring Nigel.0 -
So pleased for you both. Best wishesbigjohnowls said:In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.
Thank fook for that.0 -
I asked my better half and she tells me she dyes her hair from habit having done so for many years. She probably started getting a little bit of grey which started her off. To me, it really doesn't matter. She is a very special lady and I am a very lucky man, even if she is currently beside me wearing a worn out pair of baffies (slippers).Cyclefree said:
Ah yes, hair.NickPalmer said:
+1. I grew up in Denmark where women largely agreed with what you say, and found the whole rigmarole that they observed in France and Britain completely perplexing. The more political ones also found it repellent in terms of accepting a sexist role - "Why should women make a special effort to dress to please men when men don't do the same?".Cookie said:
I've come to feel relaxed about it - if people want to make an effort to look good and feel happy in the results, why not? But I also think it's largely done for personal and peer satisfaction, in the same way as some men like to cultivate a finely-trimmed beard. The exception is hairstyle, which I think does make a major difference to how people look for both sexes and is worth taking time to consider what you want.
How many women dye their hair? And why?
Well, ask yourself this: if you were dating, would you choose a woman who had silver hair - however gorgeous and well kept and well cut - and however lovely her face, however engaging her personality, blah blah?
And be honest in your answers.
Men may not look at make up or what women wear or even their shoes (though I am sceptical - or perhaps it is just the men I know) but they do look at women's hair. And silver hair - even if you went silver in your 30's - means "old" and no man (or very few of them) want old or older women.
I will put my cards on the table. I have silver hair - gorgeous it is. But I am unique among my peers. And it - to some extent - helped in my job. Looking older and experienced and wise and like someone's mother and, if necessary, like a witch was very useful when interrogating some over-entitled overpaid toerag.
But pretty much every senior woman I have ever encountered, plenty of them older than me, did the opposite to me. If women care about their appearance, it's because they are often judged on their appearance - even in contexts where this should not matter and even when working with men who claim to be above such superficial issues.0 -
Yes, but look at what his supporters want. They don't want the overthrow of the capitalist system, they want to be able to afford to buy a house, raise kids, and educate them properly. As I've said on here many times, it is an absolute travesty that these people who should be natural Conservative voters are now in thrall to the bearded svengali in red. And I do not mean Santa Claus.AmpfieldAndy said:
Get out of town. McDonnell wants to overthrow capitalism and free market economics. There is nothing remotely middle class about that.kyf_100 said:
I agree with you there, £20 is not a lot when taken as a single journey but trying to put myself in the position of a middle class earner who has moved out to Brighton or the like because they have kids and want to get on the property ladder, I can understand why they are hopping mad about every fare rise.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Commuting to work is not my idea of heaven but for £20 a day return to London it has to be good valuekyf_100 said:
Except for the fact you'd need to earn about 8k a year more (assuming you are a higher rate taxpayer, which I imagine most people forking out 5k a year for a train ticket are). You're then paying an additonal six or seven quid on your Oyster to move around London for the day, plus the cost of getting to and from home assuming you're not living within walking distance. All for the privilege of a probably two to three hour journey each way door to door.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You do express it so well if in your somewhat colourful way. As a example I believe a season ticket Brighton to London is in the region of £5,000. So travelling 5 days a week it is less than £20 a day return
Looks like really good value to me
I've known people on salaries of 50-70k who have commuted that distance at that cost and most of them have agreed it just isn't worth it. They usually move out of the city because they have young kids so those salaries don't go as far as you think.
I've said it before, but Corbynism is a very middle class rebellion. From the swathes of students protesting tuition fees to the twenty somethings who can't get on the property ladder (how socialist is that?) to middle class commuters demanding subsidised rail fares. Corbynism is of and for the middle classes.
Corbynism is a fools paradise.0 -
I f***ing love trains, man!viewcode said:
Off the top of my head, I spend approx 8-10% of my waking life on them. I f*****g hate trains...malcolmg said:I rarely use trains or any other public transport, if it cannot support itself then I say tough.
Apart from oddities running at weekends only (like Brigg, Reddish South, Okehampton etc.) I just need 12 journeys, all in Scotland, to complete the UK National Network!
Ayr to Stranraer
Falkirk to Perth to Inverness
Croy to Alloa
Cardenden Loop
Leuchars to Dundee
Ladybank to Perth
Perth to Aberdeen
Aberdeen to Inverness
Craigendoran to Oban
Crianlarich to Mallaig
Inverness to Kyle
Dingwall to Thurso and Wick
0 -
London to Brighton is 64 miles. At 30p per mile (conservative estimate) it would cost around £40 a day to drive back and forth. So it is half the price of the competition.kyf_100 said:
Except for the fact you'd need to earn about 8k a year more (assuming you are a higher rate taxpayer, which I imagine most people forking out 5k a year for a train ticket are). You're then paying an additonal six or seven quid on your Oyster to move around London for the day, plus the cost of getting to and from home assuming you're not living within walking distance. All for the privilege of a probably two to three hour journey each way door to door.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You do express it so well if in your somewhat colourful way. As a example I believe a season ticket Brighton to London is in the region of £5,000. So travelling 5 days a week it is less than £20 a day returnmalcolmg said:
Evening G, it is pathetic crap, why should we pay for rich commuters to go in to London and make huge salaries. If the greedy gets don't like it get a job nearer home, poncy grasping gits.Big_G_NorthWales said:Watching Sky and BBC all day they have been attacking the rail increases and showing Corbyn demonstrating against the rises at a London Station.
Just watched ITV Wales news with an exact mirror image of the complaints in England but the difference here in Wales is the increase of 2.98% by TFW is labour's responsibility.
Why are you not in Cardiff, Corbyn, or is that too embarrasssing
Looks like really good value to me
I've known people on salaries of 50-70k who have commuted that distance at that cost and most of them have agreed it just isn't worth it. They usually move out of the city because they have young kids so those salaries don't go as far as you think.
Of course, there may be other considerations. Car sharing can bring down the cost. If four car share, then it's actually cost effective. Also, in a car you're guaranteed a seat.
But equally, on a train you aren't stuck in traffic either fuming or suffering an asthma attack.0 -
I am 36 shortly and still a merry bachelor.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I will put my cards on the table - I am 43 and still singleCyclefree said:
Ah yes, hair.NickPalmer said:
+1. I grew up in Denmark where women largely agreed with what you say, and found the whole rigmarole that they observed in France and Britain completely perplexing. The more political ones also found it repellent in terms of accepting a sexist role - "Why should women make a special effort to dress to please men when men don't do the same?".Cookie said:
I've come to feel relaxed about it - if people want to make an effort to look good and feel happy in the results, why not? But I also think it's largely done for personal and peer satisfaction, in the same way as some men like to cultivate a finely-trimmed beard. The exception is hairstyle, which I think does make a major difference to how people look for both sexes and is worth taking time to consider what you want.
How many women dye their hair? And why?
Well, ask yourself this: if you were dating, would you choose a woman who had silver hair - however gorgeous and well kept and well cut - and however lovely her face, however engaging her personality, blah blah?
And be honest in your answers.
Men may not look at make up or what women wear or even their shoes (though I am sceptical - or perhaps it is just the men I know) but they do look at women's hair. And silver hair - even if you went silver in your 30's - means "old" and no man (or very few of them) want old or older women.
I will put my cards on the table. I have silver hair - gorgeous it is. But I am unique among my peers. And it - to some extent - helped in my job. Looking older and experienced and wise and like someone's mother and, if necessary, like a witch was very useful when interrogating some over-entitled overpaid toerag.
But pretty much every senior woman I have ever encountered, plenty of them older than me, did the opposite to me. If women care about their appearance, it's because they are often judged on their appearance - even in contexts where this should not matter and even when working with men who claim to be above such superficial issues.
It used to be a 'gay bachelor' but that led to one or two embarrassing misunderstandings...0 -
Fantastic news delighted to hear! May she be back to normal (and wearing whatever damn shoes she pleases) as soon as possible.bigjohnowls said:In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.
Thank fook for that.0 -
My ex-CO once had to perform emergency topiary on a Manila bar girl while she stood over the bin in his hotel room. Such was the thicket that faced the intrepid explorer.CD13 said:Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.
Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).
Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.0 -
On the other hand, a quick look at any hair loss forum will tell you the lengths (no pun intended) men are prepared to go to keep their locks. Minoxidil, propecia, even hair transplants at £1000s a pop.Cyclefree said:
Ah yes, hair.NickPalmer said:
+1. I grew up in Denmark where women largely agreed with what you say, and found the whole rigmarole that they observed in France and Britain completely perplexing. The more political ones also found it repellent in terms of accepting a sexist role - "Why should women make a special effort to dress to please men when men don't do the same?".Cookie said:
I've come to feel relaxed about it - if people want to make an effort to look good and feel happy in the results, why not? But I also think it's largely done for personal and peer satisfaction, in the same way as some men like to cultivate a finely-trimmed beard. The exception is hairstyle, which I think does make a major difference to how people look for both sexes and is worth taking time to consider what you want.
How many women dye their hair? And why?
Well, ask yourself this: if you were dating, would you choose a woman who had silver hair - however gorgeous and well kept and well cut - and however lovely her face, however engaging her personality, blah blah?
And be honest in your answers.
Men may not look at make up or what women wear or even their shoes (though I am sceptical - or perhaps it is just the men I know) but they do look at women's hair. And silver hair - even if you went silver in your 30's - means "old" and no man (or very few of them) want old or older women.
I will put my cards on the table. I have silver hair - gorgeous it is. But I am unique among my peers. And it - to some extent - helped in my job. Looking older and experienced and wise and like someone's mother and, if necessary, like a witch was very useful when interrogating some over-entitled overpaid toerag.
But pretty much every senior woman I have ever encountered, plenty of them older than me, did the opposite to me. If women care about their appearance, it's because they are often judged on their appearance - even in contexts where this should not matter and even when working with men who claim to be above such superficial issues.0 -
I am so pleased for you both!bigjohnowls said:In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.
Thank fook for that.0 -
Tattoos, breast enhancements, and shaven pubes are a real turn-off, for me.CD13 said:Can I ask a strange question why we're talking about attraction. Having been married for 43 years to the same woman, I didn't realise the fashion is now to shave your pubes. I saw a TV show briefly and it came as a total surprise. I had to check with my son who knows these things, and he confirmed it.
Surely pubic hair is a turn on? I can only speak about women because men are ugly, smelly creatures at the best of times (but I'm sure gay men may have different views).
Yes, I do realise I'm an old git.0 -
Mr Ace,
Consider my mind boggled.0 -
Interesting to reflect I've done all of those, except the line from Aberdeen to Elgin.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I f***ing love trains, man!viewcode said:
Off the top of my head, I spend approx 8-10% of my waking life on them. I f*****g hate trains...malcolmg said:I rarely use trains or any other public transport, if it cannot support itself then I say tough.
Apart from oddities running at weekends only (like Brigg, Reddish South, Okehampton etc.) I just need 12 journeys, all in Scotland, to complete the UK National Network!
Ayr to Stranraer
Falkirk to Perth to Inverness
Croy to Alloa
Cardenden Loop
Leuchars to Dundee
Ladybank to Perth
Perth to Aberdeen
Aberdeen to Inverness
Craigendoran to Oban
Crianlarich to Mallaig
Inverness to Kyle
Dingwall to Thurso and Wick0 -
Excellent news. You've been through the wars.bigjohnowls said:In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.
Thank fook for that.0 -
People focus on the economic effect of Brexit and underestimate its debilitating effect on politics and diplomacy. Brexit is the exact opposite of taking control. It means abdicating any effective opinion on what we want. If in practice you always go along with what others have already decided, you stop discussing the issues because there is no point arguing about things you can't influence.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
Yay, happy days.bigjohnowls said:In other good news Mrs BJO is now home. The heart attack from yesterday is now problems with the muscles round the heart that prese ted as a heart attack and not a real heart attack at al.
Thank fook for that.0 -
Sure they want the house, kids and education etc etc put they want someone else to pay for it. Soak the rich and tax the hell out of business figures pretty large in Corbynism which is why, inter alia, his unfunded promises on tuition fees and renationalisation were so popular.kyf_100 said:
Yes, but look at what his supporters want. They don't want the overthrow of the capitalist system, they want to be able to afford to buy a house, raise kids, and educate them properly. As I've said on here many times, it is an absolute travesty that these people who should be natural Conservative voters are now in thrall to the bearded svengali in red. And I do not mean Santa Claus.AmpfieldAndy said:
Get out of town. McDonnell wants to overthrow capitalism and free market economics. There is nothing remotely middle class about that.kyf_100 said:
I agree with you there, £20 is not a lot when taken as a single journey but trying to put myself in the position of a middle class earner who has moved out to Brighton or the like because they have kids and want to get on the property ladder, I can understand why they are hopping mad about every fare rise.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Commuting to work is not my idea of heaven but for £20 a day return to London it has to be good valuekyf_100 said:
Except for the fact you'd need to earn about 8k a year more (assuming you are a higher rate taxpayer, which I imagine most people forking out 5k a year for a train ticket are). You're then paying an additonal six or seven quid on your Oyster to move around London for the day, plus the cost of getting to and from home assuming you're not living within walking distance. All for the privilege of a probably two to three hour journey each way door to door.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You do express it so well if in your somewhat colourful way. As a example I believe a season ticket Brighton to London is in the region of £5,000. So travelling 5 days a week it is less than £20 a day return
Looks like really good value to me
I've known people on salaries of 50-70k who have commuted that distance at that cost and most of them have agreed it just isn't worth it. They usually move out of the city because they have young kids so those salaries don't go as far as you think.
I've said it before, but Corbynism is a very middle class rebellion. From the swathes of students protesting tuition fees to the twenty somethings who can't get on the property ladder (how socialist is that?) to middle class commuters demanding subsidised rail fares. Corbynism is of and for the middle classes.
Corbynism is a fools paradise.0 -
Aberdeen to Inverness goes through Elginydoethur said:
Interesting to reflect I've done all of those, except the line from Aberdeen to Elgin.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I f***ing love trains, man!viewcode said:
Off the top of my head, I spend approx 8-10% of my waking life on them. I f*****g hate trains...malcolmg said:I rarely use trains or any other public transport, if it cannot support itself then I say tough.
Apart from oddities running at weekends only (like Brigg, Reddish South, Okehampton etc.) I just need 12 journeys, all in Scotland, to complete the UK National Network!
Ayr to Stranraer
Falkirk to Perth to Inverness
Croy to Alloa
Cardenden Loop
Leuchars to Dundee
Ladybank to Perth
Perth to Aberdeen
Aberdeen to Inverness
Craigendoran to Oban
Crianlarich to Mallaig
Inverness to Kyle
Dingwall to Thurso and Wick0
