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Comments
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There's a delay in the aye lobby.
Ooh matron.0 -
Government lose by 180
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I see Woodcock voted with the Tories (he's suspended already so I suppose Labour can't deselect him), but most of DUP and two Tories voted with the Opposition.0
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Motion carries 311 to 293.
Government held in contempt.0 -
You think it would have been better to have had chaos in 2015 rather than in 2017? A curious view.Foxy said:
Surely Coalition of Chaos was May's line in 2017?nico67 said:The country is becoming ungovernable !
Let us remember the words of David Cameron before the 2015 GE.
A vote for Ed Miliband is a vote for a coalition of chaos ! Utterly hilarious given the chaos we’ve seen over the last few years with this inept Tory government !
Failing to vote in #Edstone in 2015 is increasingly looking like a failure by the British public.0 -
Blimey, at this rate May's administration isn't going to make it to the vote0
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I agree. Head to head. Both should be worried. But May's team will be more worried than Corbyn's.Philip_Thompson said:While normally I think that a debate between leaders should be on BBC first and foremost the BBC do seem to have come up with a ludicrous proposal. ITV's actsully sounds like a proper debate.
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Government caves in, will publish the full legal advice.0
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Who are the Tories?NickPalmer said:I see Woodcock voted with the Tories (he's suspended already so I suppose Labour can't deselect him), but most of DUP and two Tories voted with the Opposition.
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I thought that was decided by the committee, and not the house?grabcocque said:Motion carries 311 to 293.
Government held in contempt.0 -
The motion to refer it to the committee was defeated.RobD said:
I thought that was decided by the committee, and not the house?grabcocque said:Motion carries 311 to 293.
Government held in contempt.0 -
After the last 3 years, PM Ed Milliband and CoE Ed Balls looks a missed opportunity for government that is merely amusing rather than the current lot doing slapstick on the edge of a cliff.Richard_Nabavi said:
You think it would have been better to have had chaos in 2015 rather than in 2017? A curious view.Foxy said:
Surely Coalition of Chaos was May's line in 2017?nico67 said:The country is becoming ungovernable !
Let us remember the words of David Cameron before the 2015 GE.
A vote for Ed Miliband is a vote for a coalition of chaos ! Utterly hilarious given the chaos we’ve seen over the last few years with this inept Tory government !
Failing to vote in #Edstone in 2015 is increasingly looking like a failure by the British public.0 -
Sir Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, asks a point of order. What can be done to ensure the full legal advice is published?
Andrea Leadsom, the Commons leader, says the full legal advice will be published. But she has also asked the privileges committee to investigate the issues that arise from this.
Guardian0 -
Ah, thanks.grabcocque said:
The motion to refer it to the committee was defeated.RobD said:
I thought that was decided by the committee, and not the house?grabcocque said:Motion carries 311 to 293.
Government held in contempt.0 -
I thought Mr Cox was to be frogmarched?grabcocque said:Government caves in, will publish the full legal advice.
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Leadsom says the legal advice will be published tomorrow.
She looks deflated and humiliated.0 -
The tactics of the government on this are hard to understand. Were they playing for time, or hoping this would be a distraction? I don't get it.0
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The economy is sailing along, merrily, and most people are getting a yoy pay rise and lower petrol prices.Foxy said:
After the last 3 years, PM Ed Milliband and CoE Ed Balls looks a missed opportunity for government that is merely amusing rather than the current lot doing slapstick on the edge of a cliff.Richard_Nabavi said:
You think it would have been better to have had chaos in 2015 rather than in 2017? A curious view.Foxy said:
Surely Coalition of Chaos was May's line in 2017?nico67 said:The country is becoming ungovernable !
Let us remember the words of David Cameron before the 2015 GE.
A vote for Ed Miliband is a vote for a coalition of chaos ! Utterly hilarious given the chaos we’ve seen over the last few years with this inept Tory government !
Failing to vote in #Edstone in 2015 is increasingly looking like a failure by the British public.
Its only us political anoraks that remember all the little crises.0 -
This is in the context of the referendum. Now of course Lab wouldn't have offered a referendum but not to have done so would have been less democratic given the 4m who had effectively been disenfranchised.Foxy said:
After the last 3 years, PM Ed Milliband and CoE Ed Balls looks a missed opportunity for government that is merely amusing rather than the current lot doing slapstick on the edge of a cliff.Richard_Nabavi said:
You think it would have been better to have had chaos in 2015 rather than in 2017? A curious view.Foxy said:
Surely Coalition of Chaos was May's line in 2017?nico67 said:The country is becoming ungovernable !
Let us remember the words of David Cameron before the 2015 GE.
A vote for Ed Miliband is a vote for a coalition of chaos ! Utterly hilarious given the chaos we’ve seen over the last few years with this inept Tory government !
Failing to vote in #Edstone in 2015 is increasingly looking like a failure by the British public.0 -
Sadly no frogmarching appears to be necessary because Leadsom caved immediately.Tissue_Price said:
I thought Mr Cox was to be frogmarched?grabcocque said:Government caves in, will publish the full legal advice.
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I'm increasingly leaning towards the theory that the Chief Whip has lost control of the PCP.Richard_Nabavi said:The tactics of the government on this are hard to understand. Were they playing for time, or hoping this would be a distraction? I don't get it.
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But that wasn't the choice. You are confusing 2015 with 2017. If (heaven forbade, thank goodness) we'd had the dire spectacle of Ed Miliband as PM, that would not have made the referendum go away, it would merely have delayed it. And in any case, a lot of the present problems are precisely because it's a hung parliament. Why on earth would a Miliband minority government have been any better?Foxy said:
After the last 3 years, PM Ed Milliband and CoE Ed Balls looks a missed opportunity for government that is merely amusing rather than the current lot doing slapstick on the edge of a cliff.Richard_Nabavi said:
You think it would have been better to have had chaos in 2015 rather than in 2017? A curious view.Foxy said:
Surely Coalition of Chaos was May's line in 2017?nico67 said:The country is becoming ungovernable !
Let us remember the words of David Cameron before the 2015 GE.
A vote for Ed Miliband is a vote for a coalition of chaos ! Utterly hilarious given the chaos we’ve seen over the last few years with this inept Tory government !
Failing to vote in #Edstone in 2015 is increasingly looking like a failure by the British public.0 -
If that was the case why is he always so happy!Mortimer said:
I'm increasingly leaning towards the theory that the Chief Whip has lost control of the PCP.Richard_Nabavi said:The tactics of the government on this are hard to understand. Were they playing for time, or hoping this would be a distraction? I don't get it.
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What a lot of political capital spent defending an indefensible position. And what a warning shot!0
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Well, they only lost (on their amendment) by 4. We may understand better when we have seen the advice: that legal advice should be privileged seems to be a principle worth defending, especially in the context of a negotiation.Richard_Nabavi said:The tactics of the government on this are hard to understand. Were they playing for time, or hoping this would be a distraction? I don't get it.
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Why suffer the humiliation, and then publish?
They could have avoided this by publishing yesterday.0 -
He could not have done worse than Cameron.Richard_Nabavi said:
But that wasn't the choice. You are confusing 2015 with 2017. If (heaven forbade, thank goodness) we'd had the dire spectacle of Ed Miliband as PM, that would not have made the referendum go away, it would merely have delayed it.Foxy said:
After the last 3 years, PM Ed Milliband and CoE Ed Balls looks a missed opportunity for government that is merely amusing rather than the current lot doing slapstick on the edge of a cliff.Richard_Nabavi said:
You think it would have been better to have had chaos in 2015 rather than in 2017? A curious view.Foxy said:
Surely Coalition of Chaos was May's line in 2017?nico67 said:The country is becoming ungovernable !
Let us remember the words of David Cameron before the 2015 GE.
A vote for Ed Miliband is a vote for a coalition of chaos ! Utterly hilarious given the chaos we’ve seen over the last few years with this inept Tory government !
Failing to vote in #Edstone in 2015 is increasingly looking like a failure by the British public.0 -
But she IS a mother!grabcocque said:Leadsom says the legal advice will be published tomorrow.
She looks deflated and humiliated.0 -
I am minded (and this is a rarity) to give the Government the benefit of the doubt on this one.Tissue_Price said:
Well, they only lost (on their amendment) by 4. We may understand better when we have seen the advice: that legal advice should be privileged seems to be a principle worth defending, especially in the context of a negotiation.Richard_Nabavi said:The tactics of the government on this are hard to understand. Were they playing for time, or hoping this would be a distraction? I don't get it.
But we shall see.0 -
Because May is surrounded by people telling her she can win.SandyRentool said:Why suffer the humiliation, and then publish?
They could have avoided this by publishing yesterday.
She has ZERO idea what's going on.0 -
Why should BBC be the first resort? They have been completely outplayed by ITV on political coverage for years now. Laura K is a terrible journalist, so painful to watch I have given up entirely on BBC News and now tolerate the crap ads and woeful investigative stuff on ITV just to avoid her. Election night coverage is far, far superior on ITV. And the TV debates are consistently better.Philip_Thompson said:While normally I think that a debate between leaders should be on BBC first and foremost the BBC do seem to have come up with a ludicrous proposal. ITV's actually sounds like a proper debate.
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Leadsom says she has listened to all sides of the House. Only a couple of years too late.0
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Under the 2 Eds we would have been thriving, and Corbyn would be a never was on the backbenches, a Brexit referendum would be in the future. It would be an interesting counterfactual.Mortimer said:
The economy is sailing along, merrily, and most people are getting a yoy pay rise and lower petrol prices.Foxy said:
After the last 3 years, PM Ed Milliband and CoE Ed Balls looks a missed opportunity for government that is merely amusing rather than the current lot doing slapstick on the edge of a cliff.Richard_Nabavi said:
You think it would have been better to have had chaos in 2015 rather than in 2017? A curious view.Foxy said:
Surely Coalition of Chaos was May's line in 2017?nico67 said:The country is becoming ungovernable !
Let us remember the words of David Cameron before the 2015 GE.
A vote for Ed Miliband is a vote for a coalition of chaos ! Utterly hilarious given the chaos we’ve seen over the last few years with this inept Tory government !
Failing to vote in #Edstone in 2015 is increasingly looking like a failure by the British public.
Its only us political anoraks that remember all the little crises.0 -
True, the first vote was close enough that they must have thought they had a chance.Tissue_Price said:
Well, they only lost (on their amendment) by 4. We may understand better when we have seen the advice: that legal advice should be privileged seems to be a principle worth defending, especially in the context of a negotiation.Richard_Nabavi said:The tactics of the government on this are hard to understand. Were they playing for time, or hoping this would be a distraction? I don't get it.
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Laura K a terrible journalist? Far from itAnazina said:
Why should BBC be the first resort? They have been completely outplayed by ITV on political coverage for years now. Laura K is a terrible journalist, so painful to watch I have given up entirely on BBC News and now tolerate the crap ads and woeful investigative stuff on ITV just to avoid her. Election night coverage is far, far superior on ITV. And the TV debates are consistently better.Philip_Thompson said:While normally I think that a debate between leaders should be on BBC first and foremost the BBC do seem to have come up with a ludicrous proposal. ITV's actually sounds like a proper debate.
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Haven't you seen the size of is majority in Skip & Rip? He could be the last Tory standing.Gallowgate said:
If that was the case why is he always so happy!Mortimer said:
I'm increasingly leaning towards the theory that the Chief Whip has lost control of the PCP.Richard_Nabavi said:The tactics of the government on this are hard to understand. Were they playing for time, or hoping this would be a distraction? I don't get it.
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Oh she is. Take it from one who knows. She is utterly dire.Brom said:
Laura K a terrible journalist? Far from itAnazina said:
Why should BBC be the first resort? They have been completely outplayed by ITV on political coverage for years now. Laura K is a terrible journalist, so painful to watch I have given up entirely on BBC News and now tolerate the crap ads and woeful investigative stuff on ITV just to avoid her. Election night coverage is far, far superior on ITV. And the TV debates are consistently better.Philip_Thompson said:While normally I think that a debate between leaders should be on BBC first and foremost the BBC do seem to have come up with a ludicrous proposal. ITV's actually sounds like a proper debate.
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The government's argument that current legal advice should be withheld because future legal advice might contain commercial or national security sensibilities is cretinous.
Why not withhold the advice only when it *does*, rather than when it *doesn't*.
Better still, why not provide a mechanism for partially redacting such advice so this stupid goddamn situation never happens again.0 -
Deleted.-1
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Brexit is not dead yet but it is lying on the floor toga askew and a few men with knives stand peering over it0
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Yes, I really cannot understand it, it defies reason. It'd be called humiliation either way but they could have avoided some ignominy at least.SandyRentool said:Why suffer the humiliation, and then publish?
They could have avoided this by publishing yesterday.0 -
Anything specific?Anazina said:
Oh she is. Take it from one who knows. She is utterly dire.Brom said:
Laura K a terrible journalist? Far from itAnazina said:
Why should BBC be the first resort? They have been completely outplayed by ITV on political coverage for years now. Laura K is a terrible journalist, so painful to watch I have given up entirely on BBC News and now tolerate the crap ads and woeful investigative stuff on ITV just to avoid her. Election night coverage is far, far superior on ITV. And the TV debates are consistently better.Philip_Thompson said:While normally I think that a debate between leaders should be on BBC first and foremost the BBC do seem to have come up with a ludicrous proposal. ITV's actually sounds like a proper debate.
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There is a mechanism - they can show the advice to the opposition leaders under Privy Council terms, and agree any redaction necessary.grabcocque said:The government's argument that current legal advice should be withheld because future legal advice might contain commercial or national security sensibilities is cretinous.
Why not withhold the advice only when it *does*, rather than when it *doesn't*.
Better still, why not provide a mechanism for partially redacting such advice so this stupid goddamn situation never happens again.
Of course, that does rather assume that the leader of the opposition isn't a terrorist-supporting extremist who sides with our enemies.0 -
It's not really fair, but I think that this isn't making Mike's bet that he'll be next leader very likely - he'll be remembered as the chap who lost a key vote.grabcocque said:
Sadly no frogmarching appears to be necessary because Leadsom caved immediately.Tissue_Price said:
I thought Mr Cox was to be frogmarched?grabcocque said:Government caves in, will publish the full legal advice.
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May on ITV deal
Appears to have done a
I'M THE PM GET ME OUT OF HEEERE0 -
Perhaps if they'd made that argument in Parliament they would have gotten a fair few sympathetic Labour switchers.Richard_Nabavi said:
There is a mechanism - they can show the advice to the opposition leaders under Privy Council terms, and agree any redaction necessary.grabcocque said:The government's argument that current legal advice should be withheld because future legal advice might contain commercial or national security sensibilities is cretinous.
Why not withhold the advice only when it *does*, rather than when it *doesn't*.
Better still, why not provide a mechanism for partially redacting such advice so this stupid goddamn situation never happens again.
Of course, that does rather assume that the leader of the opposition isn't a terrorist-supporting extremist who sides with our enemies.0 -
I'm not. I get defending that principle but after they did not contest the first vote about releasing it the game was up.rottenborough said:
I am minded (and this is a rarity) to give the Government the benefit of the doubt on this one.Tissue_Price said:
Well, they only lost (on their amendment) by 4. We may understand better when we have seen the advice: that legal advice should be privileged seems to be a principle worth defending, especially in the context of a negotiation.Richard_Nabavi said:The tactics of the government on this are hard to understand. Were they playing for time, or hoping this would be a distraction? I don't get it.
But we shall see.0 -
Surely that was Ms Leadsom?NickPalmer said:
It's not really fair, but I think that this isn't making Mike's bet that he'll be next leader very likely - he'll be remembered as the chap who lost a key vote.grabcocque said:
Sadly no frogmarching appears to be necessary because Leadsom caved immediately.Tissue_Price said:
I thought Mr Cox was to be frogmarched?grabcocque said:Government caves in, will publish the full legal advice.
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and Brutus is Boris?mr-claypole said:Brexit is not dead yet but it is lying on the floor toga askew and a few men with knives stand peering over it
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Who is managing the Commons for Labour? They have done a cracking job.Tissue_Price said:
Surely that was Ms Leadsom?NickPalmer said:
It's not really fair, but I think that this isn't making Mike's bet that he'll be next leader very likely - he'll be remembered as the chap who lost a key vote.grabcocque said:
Sadly no frogmarching appears to be necessary because Leadsom caved immediately.Tissue_Price said:
I thought Mr Cox was to be frogmarched?grabcocque said:Government caves in, will publish the full legal advice.
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He shall be associated with refusing to provide the advice as demanded - weren't people saying he could be suspended for this? - so he will be remembered for it.Tissue_Price said:
Surely that was Ms Leadsom?NickPalmer said:
It's not really fair, but I think that this isn't making Mike's bet that he'll be next leader very likely - he'll be remembered as the chap who lost a key vote.grabcocque said:
Sadly no frogmarching appears to be necessary because Leadsom caved immediately.Tissue_Price said:
I thought Mr Cox was to be frogmarched?grabcocque said:Government caves in, will publish the full legal advice.
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When the opposition starts defeating a government it is really hard for the government to recover. If you can defeat them once, you can do it again.0
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It has been a first-class performance from Labour from start to finish. They are serious.Foxy said:
Who is managing the Commons for Labour? They have done a cracking job.Tissue_Price said:
Surely that was Ms Leadsom?NickPalmer said:
It's not really fair, but I think that this isn't making Mike's bet that he'll be next leader very likely - he'll be remembered as the chap who lost a key vote.grabcocque said:
Sadly no frogmarching appears to be necessary because Leadsom caved immediately.Tissue_Price said:
I thought Mr Cox was to be frogmarched?grabcocque said:Government caves in, will publish the full legal advice.
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Bradley on BBC is right - if MPs go to talk to their constituents they might find that approval of the deal is increasing. Whether that will make a difference we don't of course know.0
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Well in the short term at least the DUP are essentially part of the the opposition bloc, and on any Brexit issue the government is heavily divided, so winning votes in the next few weeks will be tricky.Jonathan said:When the opposition starts defeating a government it is really hard for the government to recover. If you can defeat them once, you can do it again.
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VONC due on the 12th isn't it?Jonathan said:When the opposition starts defeating a government it is really hard for the government to recover. If you can defeat them once, you can do it again.
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I'll grant that they are serious about embarrassing and defeating the Government. On Brexit policy, not so much.Jonathan said:
It has been a first-class performance from Labour from start to finish. They are serious.Foxy said:
Who is managing the Commons for Labour? They have done a cracking job.Tissue_Price said:
Surely that was Ms Leadsom?NickPalmer said:
It's not really fair, but I think that this isn't making Mike's bet that he'll be next leader very likely - he'll be remembered as the chap who lost a key vote.grabcocque said:
Sadly no frogmarching appears to be necessary because Leadsom caved immediately.Tissue_Price said:
I thought Mr Cox was to be frogmarched?grabcocque said:Government caves in, will publish the full legal advice.
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DUP: “We haven’t broken the confidence & supply deal - Theresa May broke it”
Never cross an Ulster Unionist.0 -
And Sir Keir boosts his leadership chances with every passing day.Jonathan said:
It has been a first-class performance from Labour from start to finish. They are serious.Foxy said:
Who is managing the Commons for Labour? They have done a cracking job.Tissue_Price said:
Surely that was Ms Leadsom?NickPalmer said:
It's not really fair, but I think that this isn't making Mike's bet that he'll be next leader very likely - he'll be remembered as the chap who lost a key vote.grabcocque said:
Sadly no frogmarching appears to be necessary because Leadsom caved immediately.Tissue_Price said:
I thought Mr Cox was to be frogmarched?grabcocque said:Government caves in, will publish the full legal advice.
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I'm not sure why people are so down on Preston, but he's got a really good analysis of the implications of Grieve's amendment:david_herdson said:
I have never seen a journalist so far out of his depth as Peston is. Time and again he just repeats nonsense that anyone with any understanding of politics could see is nonsense.Tissue_Price said:Peston really is an over-excitable chump, though to be fair the Labour Whips' Twitter have put him away here:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1069995463326269440
I sometimes wonder whether there's a competition to to see what the most ridiculous thing is that they can get him to pass on is.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/10699813508228997120 -
We live in strange times .
What price the DUP supporting Labours Customs Union plan ?0 -
The problem is the bubble effect - even if approval of the deal is increasing (and it'll be interesting to see if that changes now remain is very much back on the table) the Commons seems to be focused on its own struggles and procedures, on securing GEs or changes in direction, and they are whipped up into a frenzy where I don't feel a trend toward the deal in their constituencies will permeate that bubble.TOPPING said:Bradley on BBC is right - if MPs go to talk to their constituents they might find that approval of the deal is increasing. Whether that will make a difference we don't of course know.
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Idiotic talk like that is why your party is in this mess.Richard_Nabavi said:
There is a mechanism - they can show the advice to the opposition leaders under Privy Council terms, and agree any redaction necessary.grabcocque said:The government's argument that current legal advice should be withheld because future legal advice might contain commercial or national security sensibilities is cretinous.
Why not withhold the advice only when it *does*, rather than when it *doesn't*.
Better still, why not provide a mechanism for partially redacting such advice so this stupid goddamn situation never happens again.
Of course, that does rather assume that the leader of the opposition isn't a terrorist-supporting extremist who sides with our enemies.
Your leader couldn't debate a 5 year old child0 -
I can't see how the government can avoid defeat on the Grieve amendment. Not only are the numbers in his favour, he's also got a strong argument, given that there is no longer any risk that the amendment will compromise the government's negotiating position.0
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He seems to be leading them on the Brexit issue in every sense of the word. He can be cynical and disingenuous, but he seems quite competent and has played the whole thing very well to get toward his own preferred outcome, regardless of where the leadership might have been.SandyRentool said:
And Sir Keir boosts his leadership chances with every passing day.Jonathan said:
It has been a first-class performance from Labour from start to finish. They are serious.Foxy said:
Who is managing the Commons for Labour? They have done a cracking job.Tissue_Price said:
Surely that was Ms Leadsom?NickPalmer said:
It's not really fair, but I think that this isn't making Mike's bet that he'll be next leader very likely - he'll be remembered as the chap who lost a key vote.grabcocque said:
Sadly no frogmarching appears to be necessary because Leadsom caved immediately.Tissue_Price said:
I thought Mr Cox was to be frogmarched?grabcocque said:Government caves in, will publish the full legal advice.
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Yes, he does. If we're ever in the mood to elect a leader with no very clear ideological profile who is simply competent and serious, he's in pole position.SandyRentool said:
And Sir Keir boosts his leadership chances with every passing day.Jonathan said:
It has been a first-class performance from Labour from start to finish. They are serious.0 -
A contempt motion is neither a confidence nor a supply motion, so it's moot.rottenborough said:DUP: “We haven’t broken the confidence & supply deal - Theresa May broke it”
Never cross an Ulster Unionist.0 -
That may be, but at least she has never invited terrorists into parliament to rub the noses of victims in the horrors of a recent bombing and attempt to destroy an elected government.bigjohnowls said:
Idiotic talk like that is why your party is in this mess.Richard_Nabavi said:
There is a mechanism - they can show the advice to the opposition leaders under Privy Council terms, and agree any redaction necessary.grabcocque said:The government's argument that current legal advice should be withheld because future legal advice might contain commercial or national security sensibilities is cretinous.
Why not withhold the advice only when it *does*, rather than when it *doesn't*.
Better still, why not provide a mechanism for partially redacting such advice so this stupid goddamn situation never happens again.
Of course, that does rather assume that the leader of the opposition isn't a terrorist-supporting extremist who sides with our enemies.
Your leader couldn't debate a 5 year old child0 -
plus the GE is three and a half years away.kle4 said:
The problem is the bubble effect - even if approval of the deal is increasing (and it'll be interesting to see if that changes now remain is very much back on the table) the Commons seems to be focused on its own struggles and procedures, on securing GEs or changes in direction, and they are whipped up into a frenzy where I don't feel a trend toward the deal in their constituencies will permeate that bubble.TOPPING said:Bradley on BBC is right - if MPs go to talk to their constituents they might find that approval of the deal is increasing. Whether that will make a difference we don't of course know.
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I’d vote for Sir Keir in a heartbeat.NickPalmer said:
Yes, he does. If we're ever in the mood to elect a leader with no very clear ideological profile who is simply competent and serious, he's in pole position.SandyRentool said:
And Sir Keir boosts his leadership chances with every passing day.Jonathan said:
It has been a first-class performance from Labour from start to finish. They are serious.0 -
He sure does.SandyRentool said:
And Sir Keir boosts his leadership chances with every passing day.Jonathan said:
It has been a first-class performance from Labour from start to finish. They are serious.Foxy said:
Who is managing the Commons for Labour? They have done a cracking job.Tissue_Price said:
Surely that was Ms Leadsom?NickPalmer said:
It's not really fair, but I think that this isn't making Mike's bet that he'll be next leader very likely - he'll be remembered as the chap who lost a key vote.grabcocque said:
Sadly no frogmarching appears to be necessary because Leadsom caved immediately.Tissue_Price said:
I thought Mr Cox was to be frogmarched?grabcocque said:Government caves in, will publish the full legal advice.
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We tried to tell you Theresa. Doing a deal with the DUP will *end in tears* we said.rottenborough said:DUP: “We haven’t broken the confidence & supply deal - Theresa May broke it”
Never cross an Ulster Unionist.
But you wouldn't listen...0 -
And Sir Keir boosts his leadership chances with every passing day.
He seems to be leading them on the Brexit issue in every sense of the word. He can be cynical and disingenuous, but he seems quite competent and has played the whole thing very well to get toward his own preferred outcome, regardless of where the leadership might have been.
He has played Corbyn as well as May.0 -
If Sir Keir were leader you'd be 25 points ahead. And that's not even a particularly strong endorsement of Sir Keir, any sensible figure would do.NickPalmer said:
Yes, he does. If we're ever in the mood to elect a leader with no very clear ideological profile who is simply competent and serious, he's in pole position.SandyRentool said:
And Sir Keir boosts his leadership chances with every passing day.Jonathan said:
It has been a first-class performance from Labour from start to finish. They are serious.0 -
It's hard, prima facie, to look at this Parliament as it is constituted today, and find it a house capable in any way of enduring another three and a half years of tortured existence.TOPPING said:
plus the GE is three and a half years away.kle4 said:
The problem is the bubble effect - even if approval of the deal is increasing (and it'll be interesting to see if that changes now remain is very much back on the table) the Commons seems to be focused on its own struggles and procedures, on securing GEs or changes in direction, and they are whipped up into a frenzy where I don't feel a trend toward the deal in their constituencies will permeate that bubble.TOPPING said:Bradley on BBC is right - if MPs go to talk to their constituents they might find that approval of the deal is increasing. Whether that will make a difference we don't of course know.
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Could be three and a half months away the way things are going.TOPPING said:
plus the GE is three and a half years away.kle4 said:
The problem is the bubble effect - even if approval of the deal is increasing (and it'll be interesting to see if that changes now remain is very much back on the table) the Commons seems to be focused on its own struggles and procedures, on securing GEs or changes in direction, and they are whipped up into a frenzy where I don't feel a trend toward the deal in their constituencies will permeate that bubble.TOPPING said:Bradley on BBC is right - if MPs go to talk to their constituents they might find that approval of the deal is increasing. Whether that will make a difference we don't of course know.
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Is scheduled to be three and half years away.TOPPING said:
plus the GE is three and a half years away.kle4 said:
The problem is the bubble effect - even if approval of the deal is increasing (and it'll be interesting to see if that changes now remain is very much back on the table) the Commons seems to be focused on its own struggles and procedures, on securing GEs or changes in direction, and they are whipped up into a frenzy where I don't feel a trend toward the deal in their constituencies will permeate that bubble.TOPPING said:Bradley on BBC is right - if MPs go to talk to their constituents they might find that approval of the deal is increasing. Whether that will make a difference we don't of course know.
I don't see how this government can function even past the new year. Obviously FTPA is an obstacle, but just how on earth will this shambles drag on beyond Brexit (if it even occurs - I put it as more likely than not it does not occur)?0 -
And he'd pick up a shedload of soft Cons votes if he lead Lab into the next GE. Mine, for example, if "my" party is lead by the likes of Johnson, Redwood, Bridgen, Francois et al.mr-claypole said:He has played Corbyn as well as May.
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Fixed that for you.grabcocque said:
We tried to tell you Theresa. DoingBetraying a deal with the DUP will *end in tears* we said.rottenborough said:DUP: “We haven’t broken the confidence & supply deal - Theresa May broke it”
Never cross an Ulster Unionist.
But you wouldn't listen...0 -
What would you have had her do? Ask Labour to agree another GE? Stumble along right from the start with a minority government full of potential rebellions on Brexit?grabcocque said:
We tried to tell you Theresa. Doing a deal with the DUP will *end in tears* we said.rottenborough said:DUP: “We haven’t broken the confidence & supply deal - Theresa May broke it”
Never cross an Ulster Unionist.
But you wouldn't listen...0 -
You mean the only deal with a Parliamentary majority that also meets the DUP Red Linesnico67 said:We live in strange times .
What price the DUP supporting Labours Customs Union plan ?
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Having made a deal I'd have had her honour it.kle4 said:
What would you have had her do? Ask Labour to agree another GE? Stumble along right from the start with a minority government full of potential rebellions on Brexit?grabcocque said:
We tried to tell you Theresa. Doing a deal with the DUP will *end in tears* we said.rottenborough said:DUP: “We haven’t broken the confidence & supply deal - Theresa May broke it”
Never cross an Ulster Unionist.
But you wouldn't listen...0 -
Either you do a deal with one party, or you have to do lots of mini-deals, which becomes impossiblekle4 said:
What would you have had her do? Ask Labour to agree another GE? Stumble along right from the start with a minority government full of potential rebellions on Brexit?grabcocque said:
We tried to tell you Theresa. Doing a deal with the DUP will *end in tears* we said.rottenborough said:DUP: “We haven’t broken the confidence & supply deal - Theresa May broke it”
Never cross an Ulster Unionist.
But you wouldn't listen...0 -
Since this is surely about Brexit and not about party advantage, how about May says after the deal is voted down that the plan is they won't hold a referendum or GE, but they will all ask the EU for an extension and Labour can negotiate to see if they can come up with a better deal, then they can come back and parliament will vote on the two options?
Sounds ridiculous, but frankly Labour have a better chance of getting something through the Commons.0 -
It's Starmer of the Remove on the BBC being interviewed now.
I half expect Billy Bunter to come up to him at any moment and ask to borrow five shillings.0 -
That was not the point grabcoque was making though.Philip_Thompson said:
Having made a deal I'd have had her honour it.kle4 said:
What would you have had her do? Ask Labour to agree another GE? Stumble along right from the start with a minority government full of potential rebellions on Brexit?grabcocque said:
We tried to tell you Theresa. Doing a deal with the DUP will *end in tears* we said.rottenborough said:DUP: “We haven’t broken the confidence & supply deal - Theresa May broke it”
Never cross an Ulster Unionist.
But you wouldn't listen...0 -
House is divided on the Grieve amendment.
This should carry by a pretty sizable margin, I'd think?0 -
Particularly since he's told the house that he won't be amending any primary legislation.Richard_Nabavi said:I can't see how the government can avoid defeat on the Grieve amendment. Not only are the numbers in his favour, he's also got a strong argument, given that there is no longer any risk that the amendment will compromise the government's negotiating position.
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I'm sure tom bradby is itching to punch him sometimes.david_herdson said:
I have never seen a journalist so far out of his depth as Peston is. Time and again he just repeats nonsense that anyone with any understanding of politics could see is nonsense.Tissue_Price said:Peston really is an over-excitable chump, though to be fair the Labour Whips' Twitter have put him away here:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1069995463326269440
I sometimes wonder whether there's a competition to to see what the most ridiculous thing is that they can get him to pass on is.0 -
Yep, maybe a majority of 40ish?grabcocque said:House is divided on the Grieve amendment.
This should carry by a pretty sizable margin, I'd think?0 -
DUP voting with Governmentgrabcocque said:House is divided on the Grieve amendment.
This should carry by a pretty sizable margin, I'd think?0 -
He'd do anything it took to get Remain, but in any case his amendment seems to have easily enough support to carry. Very bad day for the government, not that they will have many good days between now and the MV.Pulpstar said:
Particularly since he's told the house that he won't be amending any primary legislation.Richard_Nabavi said:I can't see how the government can avoid defeat on the Grieve amendment. Not only are the numbers in his favour, he's also got a strong argument, given that there is no longer any risk that the amendment will compromise the government's negotiating position.
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If so, then it might be close.bigjohnowls said:
DUP voting with Governmentgrabcocque said:House is divided on the Grieve amendment.
This should carry by a pretty sizable margin, I'd think?0 -
Point taken. Labour cocked up royally by allowing Corbyn's trojan horse to come in and take over. Starmer or Cooper would be excellent leaders. But I'm still going to vote for Corbyn's Labour because I want a government that believes in compassion and opportunity.Richard_Nabavi said:
That may be, but at least she has never invited terrorists into parliament to rub the noses of victims in the horrors of a recent bombing and attempt to destroy an elected government.bigjohnowls said:
Idiotic talk like that is why your party is in this mess.Richard_Nabavi said:
There is a mechanism - they can show the advice to the opposition leaders under Privy Council terms, and agree any redaction necessary.grabcocque said:The government's argument that current legal advice should be withheld because future legal advice might contain commercial or national security sensibilities is cretinous.
Why not withhold the advice only when it *does*, rather than when it *doesn't*.
Better still, why not provide a mechanism for partially redacting such advice so this stupid goddamn situation never happens again.
Of course, that does rather assume that the leader of the opposition isn't a terrorist-supporting extremist who sides with our enemies.
Your leader couldn't debate a 5 year old child0 -
What a Cox up.kle4 said:
He shall be associated with refusing to provide the advice as demanded - weren't people saying he could be suspended for this? - so he will be remembered for it.Tissue_Price said:
Surely that was Ms Leadsom?NickPalmer said:
It's not really fair, but I think that this isn't making Mike's bet that he'll be next leader very likely - he'll be remembered as the chap who lost a key vote.grabcocque said:
Sadly no frogmarching appears to be necessary because Leadsom caved immediately.Tissue_Price said:
I thought Mr Cox was to be frogmarched?grabcocque said:Government caves in, will publish the full legal advice.
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MacronRichard_Nabavi said:
If Sir Keir were leader you'd be 25 points ahead. And that's not even a particularly strong endorsement of Sir Keir, any sensible figure would do.NickPalmer said:
Yes, he does. If we're ever in the mood to elect a leader with no very clear ideological profile who is simply competent and serious, he's in pole position.SandyRentool said:
And Sir Keir boosts his leadership chances with every passing day.Jonathan said:
It has been a first-class performance from Labour from start to finish. They are serious.0 -
Maybe the DUP have just been offered something0
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Cox out.Anazina said:
What a Cox up.kle4 said:
He shall be associated with refusing to provide the advice as demanded - weren't people saying he could be suspended for this? - so he will be remembered for it.Tissue_Price said:
Surely that was Ms Leadsom?NickPalmer said:
It's not really fair, but I think that this isn't making Mike's bet that he'll be next leader very likely - he'll be remembered as the chap who lost a key vote.grabcocque said:
Sadly no frogmarching appears to be necessary because Leadsom caved immediately.Tissue_Price said:
I thought Mr Cox was to be frogmarched?grabcocque said:Government caves in, will publish the full legal advice.
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And the ever repeatable question - if the DUP could go into government with Martin McGuinness, why would Corbyn be a step too far as keeps being claimed?bigjohnowls said:
You mean the only deal with a Parliamentary majority that also meets the DUP Red Linesnico67 said:We live in strange times .
What price the DUP supporting Labours Customs Union plan ?0 -
What about Macron? France has a very different political culture compared to the UK.bigjohnowls said:
MacronRichard_Nabavi said:
If Sir Keir were leader you'd be 25 points ahead. And that's not even a particularly strong endorsement of Sir Keir, any sensible figure would do.NickPalmer said:
Yes, he does. If we're ever in the mood to elect a leader with no very clear ideological profile who is simply competent and serious, he's in pole position.SandyRentool said:
And Sir Keir boosts his leadership chances with every passing day.Jonathan said:
It has been a first-class performance from Labour from start to finish. They are serious.0