Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Betting on just how many candidates are on the first ballot pa

12346»

Comments

  • ydoethur said:

    I think Boris is more into pregnant chads...
    "You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment"
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,546

    In the afternoon thread the ERG will not like what I compare them to.
    You wouldn't. You couldn't. Surely not...

    MARK RECKLESS?!!!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,296
    edited November 2018
    ydoethur said:

    True, O Cophetua. How about this:

    Who do we know who makes rash promises that they can't keeptells blatant lies, regrets them, wobbles and then caves in in claims something different in the most incompetent and dishonest way imaginable?🤔
    That's better - now it all makes sense! :smile:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,491
    edited November 2018

    They have really been doing a number on her. It was a few news cycles ago, but they had her on the Daily Politics or some such show. Isabelle Oakshott was on as well. They managed to completely prevent Cadwalladr making her points though she battled on pluckily. (I was drive to Google to find out what she had been proposing.) A few days later there were stories going around on social media that she had been reduced to tears by the . Having watched the programme I found that highly unlikely.

    I have no way of independently checking the facts behind the story she has put into the public domain. But the way she is being personally attacked makes me inclined to believe it.
    Well other than the continuous retracted / corrections to her stories by the Guardian / Observer, they have just had an independent investigation, and found a central claim was not true.
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited November 2018

    Yes. The Brexiters have been trying to smear and malign Carole since day one. Even some of the outriders on here have gone along with it.

    Brexit is nasty, among its other sins.
    And she has been doing a lot of front page scoops - followed by retractions the next week on page 35 of the Observer (i.e. smears and claims she makes but can't always back up). Maybe she needs a break too from fighting the last referendum. If there is a second vote I don't know how she will cope with the excitement of another 3 years of stories.

    In the end the official remain campaign spent £5 million more than the leave campaign and that excludes Cameron's £10m leaflet to every household. Remain was backed by the CBI, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Ryanair and big business generally, the TUC, all the main UK parties and their infrastructure bar UKIP, Obama, Merkel, the IMF, World Bank, the EU etc etc. Poor diddums!

    Maybe its just time to move on - cos despite all those big backers Remain still lost. And it wasn't down to the Russians, twitter, Aaron Banks or marginal offshoots of the unofficial leave campaigns. Its for the same reason Corbyn did so well last year - because many people aren't happy with the system and the hand it is dealing them and their kids. And the referendum was the first time many Brits in safe seats had a meaningful vote to make a statement. And many did.

    The 2016 referendum is done - and her endless Observer front pages are just getting a bit boring now.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    Presumably the Okies want to flog us hormone beef?

    Perhaps they are a good market for our innovative jams.
    If you talk to financial services companies operating in the US (particularly insurance) then one of their biggest frustrations is the state level regulation.

    Presumably recognition of UK regulation by a state would be good thing.
  • ydoethur said:

    You wouldn't. You couldn't. Surely not...

    MARK RECKLESS?!!!
    No bad language is used.
  • The thing about the letters I’ve never understood is that apparently they don’t lapse. It seems to me that if, say, 6 months passes it should be deemed lapsed and you should have to resubmit if you’re still unhappy. Do they lapse at general elections or are they valid throughout a leaders tenure?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    In the afternoon thread the ERG will not like what I compare them to.
    Had that Pineapple Pizza yet?
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    I don't share his politics, but I find him quite an impressive operator. I suspect that this is phase one of a plan which will make a lot more sense when we get to the next general election.
    I agree. I suspect he has privately decided that a second referendum is inevitable - he has begun to refer in public to the possibility of a "people's vote" which, of course, is the language of those promoting the idea. He probably realises that if there is a second referendum the Tories will collapse and Labour will come to power in any case, so there is really very little difference from Labour's point of view between a general election and second referendum. Both are likely to result in a Labour government.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Was he genuinely surprised that goods hauliers chose the shortest and fastest Channel crossing? Are you?
    He said he hadn't appreciated the "full extent".

    If someone asked we, I'd guess that Dover-Calais would account for 80% of our trade.

    If the actual answer was 95% (I have no idea) then I wouldn't have appreciated "the full extent" to which we were dependent. But I would have appreciated the importance of the link.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,546

    No bad language is used.
    'Mark Reckless' is technically not bad language, although many adjectives used to describe him meet that threshold.
  • ydoethur said:

    'Mark Reckless' is technically not bad language, although many adjectives used to describe him meet that threshold.
    You'll find out in around 45mins time.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,546
    edited November 2018
    Charles said:

    He said he hadn't appreciated the "full extent".

    If someone asked we, I'd guess that Dover-Calais would account for 80% of our trade.

    If the actual answer was 95% (I have no idea) then I wouldn't have appreciated "the full extent" to which we were dependent. But I would have appreciated the importance of the link.
    It's actually 17% of our trade in goods, although that would be (without checking) about 40% of our trade with Europe. 2.6 million lorries or roughly 8,000 each working day.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/09/record-number-of-lorries-using-dover-port-raises-fears-of-brexit-delays
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    ydoethur said:

    'Mark Reckless' is technically not bad language ....

    Pretty sure it's in the swear filter of a sizable number of PBers.
  • This story sounds like bullshit to me.

    Paddy Power taking accepting a ten thousand pound bet. I mean really.

    A COUSIN of England ace Daniel Sturridge placed a £10,000 bet on him quitting Liverpool.

    The Sun can reveal the close relative put the huge wager on the striker moving to Inter Milan.

    At the time it was placed on January 17 this year, it was not clear which club Sturridge was joining — and would have netted a massive £27,000 payout.

    The family bet will now form a key part of the FA’s investigation into whether the £100,000-a-week player broke strict betting rules. He is charged with misconduct.

    Sturridge’s move to the Italian club collapsed at the 11th hour, sparking a feud between members of the star’s family, who had apparently promised to help fund the stake.

    The row became so heated the cousin was forced to provide proof he had placed the bet with bookies Paddy Power.


    https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/7767399/daniel-sturridge-bet-gambling-fa-family/
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,515
    ydoethur said:

    It's actually 17% of our trade in goods, although that would be (without checking) about 40% of our trade with Europe. 2.6 million lorries or roughly 8,000 each working day.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/09/record-number-of-lorries-using-dover-port-raises-fears-of-brexit-delays
    He also appeared, in the same speech, to not understand JIT. He appeared to think it related to perishable goods
  • Had that Pineapple Pizza yet?
    No. I'll have a slice of pizza with pineapple on it sometime tomorrow.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    brendan16 said:

    And she has been doing a lot of front page scoops - followed by retractions the next week on page 35 of the Observer (i.e. smears and claims she makes but can't always back up). Maybe she needs a break too from fighting the last referendum. If there is a second vote I don't know how she will cope with the excitement of another 3 years of stories.

    In the end the official remain campaign spent £5 million more than the leave campaign and that excludes Cameron's £10m leaflet to every household. Remain was backed by the CBI, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Ryanair and big business generally, the TUC, all the main UK parties and their infrastructure bar UKIP, Obama, Merkel, the IMF, World Bank, the EU etc etc. Poor diddums!

    Maybe its just time to move on - cos despite all those big backers Remain still lost. And it wasn't down to the Russians, twitter, Aaron Banks or marginal offshoots of the unofficial leave campaigns. Its for the same reason Corbyn did so well last year - because many people aren't happy with the system and the hand it is dealing them and their kids. And the referendum was the first time many Brits in safe seats had a meaningful vote to make a statement. And many did.

    The 2016 referendum is done - and her endless Observer front pages are just getting a bit boring now.
    Actually, the central allegations have seen Cambridge Analytica closed, Facebook shares down, Aaron Banks under investigation by the National Crime Agency, and a lingering bad smell around Leave’s links with Bannon and the Russians.

    Meanwhile, Cadwalladr has won both the Orwell Prize and the L’esprit de RSF from Reporters Without Borders this year.

    Of course this is all highly inconvenient for those who paint Brexit as some kind of People’s Revolution.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,546
    kjh said:

    He also appeared, in the same speech, to not understand JIT. He appeared to think it related to perishable goods
    He certainly failed to get 'just in time' when it came to resigning...
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315

    Well other than the continuous retracted / corrections to her stories by the Guardian / Observer, they have just had an independent investigation, and found a central claim was not true.
    While of course you should be sceptical about things on the Guido site there are several examples here. Perhaps they are all false and all her stories and retractions are correct.

    https://order-order.com/people/carole-cadwalladr/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,491
    edited November 2018

    Actually, the central allegations have seen Cambridge Analytica closed, Facebook shares down, Aaron Banks under investigation by the National Crime Agency, and a lingering bad smell around Leave’s links with Bannon and the Russians.

    Meanwhile, Cadwalladr has won both the Orwell Prize and the L’esprit de RSF from Reporters Without Borders this year.

    Of course this is all highly inconvenient for those who paint Brexit as some kind of People’s Revolution.
    I remember when Julian Assange was being lauded by some as a fearless independent exposer of truth and given awards and uncritical praise from some quarters.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    FF43 said:

    The Conservative Party soap has truly jumped the shark.

    27 years in power out of the last 40 isn't a bad record.
  • Has Sir Waistcoat gone mad, Delph and Dier ahead of Alli, Loftus-Cheek, Linguard and Sacho.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Panelbase Scotland poll - SNP 37 Con 28 Lab 25 LD 7 Grn 2 UKIP 2
  • justin124 said:

    Panelbase Scotland poll - SNP 37 Con 28 Lab 25 LD 7 Grn 2 UKIP 2

    almost identical to the 2017 result
  • Jordan Pickford is rubbish.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,033
    brendan16 said:

    Sir Graham said one MP 'several years ago' - which implies Cameron not May could well have been PM at the time - claimed publicly to have submitted a letter but didn't. Yet that is now being taken as implying that is the case in this instance?

    I do find the whole process very odd - that one person (and not even their Deputies) - knows how many letters have been submitted and where they are kept.

    How are they (or can they be) submitted - by hand, email, signed for post, internal Commons mail?
    Where are they kept?
    Does Sir Graham acknowledge receipt by letter or email or text
    What happens if there is a miscommunication if the previous point does not apply
    What happens if the Chair of the 1922 Committee falls ill, is on holiday or even say has undiagnosed dementia and forgets where they are.

    I sort of assumed one or more of his Deputies would be in the loop for this reason - it almost seems like the Tories have not actually moved on much from 1922 in terms of this process. All down to one person with no separate record?
    Oh look, I've just found a dozen more in this drawer.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,550
    Charles said:

    He said he hadn't appreciated the "full extent".

    If someone asked we, I'd guess that Dover-Calais would account for 80% of our trade.

    If the actual answer was 95% (I have no idea) then I wouldn't have appreciated "the full extent" to which we were dependent. But I would have appreciated the importance of the link.
    Somebody over the past forty years should perhaps have done something to diversify some - to avoid such a potential economic threat. If, for example, we had an outbreak of Foot and Mouth centred around Dover, not sure how we would cope....
  • Jordan Pickford is rubbish.

    Mrs May of England goalkeeping, rubbish but not as rubbish as the alternatives?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,809
    Why no buzz around Stephen Barclay for leader? He's the Brexit Secretary for heaven's sake. Certainly he looks the part with his serious yet with a hint of mischief face, his wide shoulders, his rolling confident gait, a physique which speaks of some experience of the gym but without making a fetish of it. The perfect goldilocks age too, neither wizened and old nor callow and young. Just all in all a prime piece of political specimen right there, and with a chance now in cabinet to shine for a week or so and then resign with great fuss and drama on a matter of high principle. Ought to be 10/1 max but I can't even find him quoted.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,568

    I agree. I suspect he has privately decided that a second referendum is inevitable - he has begun to refer in public to the possibility of a "people's vote" which, of course, is the language of those promoting the idea. He probably realises that if there is a second referendum the Tories will collapse and Labour will come to power in any case, so there is really very little difference from Labour's point of view between a general election and second referendum. Both are likely to result in a Labour government.
    Indeed. On this issue at least Labour have been been cautious, vague and flexible, and some of them have been better at that than others.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,568

    The thing about the letters I’ve never understood is that apparently they don’t lapse. It seems to me that if, say, 6 months passes it should be deemed lapsed and you should have to resubmit if you’re still unhappy. Do they lapse at general elections or are they valid throughout a leaders tenure?

    It would seem prudent for Brady to check with anyone who has not submitted one recently.
  • Mrs May of England goalkeeping, rubbish but not as rubbish as the alternatives?
    Well Liverpool's reserve goalie kept Sunderland up whilst Sunderland were relegated on Pickford's watch.

    Fair to say Pickford's not even in top two goalkeepers playing in Liverpool.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,550
    kinabalu said:

    Why no buzz around Stephen Barclay for leader? He's the Brexit Secretary for heaven's sake. Certainly he looks the part with his serious yet with a hint of mischief face, his wide shoulders, his rolling confident gait, a physique which speaks of some experience of the gym but without making a fetish of it. The perfect goldilocks age too, neither wizened and old nor callow and young. Just all in all a prime piece of political specimen right there, and with a chance now in cabinet to shine for a week or so and then resign with great fuss and drama on a matter of high principle. Ought to be 10/1 max but I can't even find him quoted.

    Because the current role of the Brexit Secretary is to count the paperclips?
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Lets get a few things clear on Cadwalladr.

    1. There is nothing new in many of her revelations. The situation with Banks (and others) in particular was known for some time. Some of it was set out on this forum.

    2. She has stopped being a journalist and started acting the zealot based on her own prejudices.

    3. She is trying to change historical fact, the vote was to exit in a binary referendum. Its called democracy whether you like the result or not.

    I voted in favour of getting out of the EU. I have, however, not been behind the door regarding the likes of Banks and Farage and have been as clear as I can be about my problems with them even though some people think my views on them are somewhat harsh and, ridiculously, somehow causing legal jeopardy .

    On the other hand, being told that those of us who voted in favour exiting the EU that we are, at the least, dupes at the worst a sack of ignorant racist backwards by the comfy circle of the inhabitants of media and politico land is going to get a two fingered reaction.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,296
    kinabalu said:

    Why no buzz around Stephen Barclay for leader? He's the Brexit Secretary for heaven's sake. Certainly he looks the part with his serious yet with a hint of mischief face, his wide shoulders, his rolling confident gait, a physique which speaks of some experience of the gym but without making a fetish of it. The perfect goldilocks age too, neither wizened and old nor callow and young. Just all in all a prime piece of political specimen right there, and with a chance now in cabinet to shine for a week or so and then resign with great fuss and drama on a matter of high principle. Ought to be 10/1 max but I can't even find him quoted.

    Oh please, don't mention Stephen Barclay - Sunil will be encouraged to try his totally hilarious play on said MP's surname again. :disappointed:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,568
    kinabalu said:

    Why no buzz around Stephen Barclay for leader? He's the Brexit Secretary for heaven's sake. Certainly he looks the part with his serious yet with a hint of mischief face, his wide shoulders, his rolling confident gait, a physique which speaks of some experience of the gym but without making a fetish of it. The perfect goldilocks age too, neither wizened and old nor callow and young. Just all in all a prime piece of political specimen right there, and with a chance now in cabinet to shine for a week or so and then resign with great fuss and drama on a matter of high principle. Ought to be 10/1 max but I can't even find him quoted.

    I think everyone was suitably surprised he existed for his appointment that he hasn't had a chance to develop buzz as a potential leader yet. Even Cox got an opportunity to stir the masses with his sonorous oratory to get tipped.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    edited November 2018

    I remember when Julian Assange was being lauded by some as a fearless independent exposer of truth and given awards and uncritical praise from some quarters.
    Yep. Turns out he was batting for your side all along!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,232
    I note today is the 40th anniversary of the Jonestown massacre.
  • D

    Yep. Turns out he was batting for your side all along!
    My side? What side is that?
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited November 2018

    Oh look, I've just found a dozen more in this drawer.
    Perhaps his wife Victoria saw them arrive in the post along with some pizza home delivery leaflets, thought they were junk mail and shredded them?!

    I merely find the whole lack of transparency over the process bizarre - a process which could trigger removing our PM. Placing it all entirely in one man's hands - or drawers?

    Maybe we should call in Brenda Snipes from Broward county to run the process with Sir Graham?!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,569
    kinabalu said:

    Why no buzz around Stephen Barclay for leader? He's the Brexit Secretary for heaven's sake. Certainly he looks the part with his serious yet with a hint of mischief face, his wide shoulders, his rolling confident gait, a physique which speaks of some experience of the gym but without making a fetish of it. The perfect goldilocks age too, neither wizened and old nor callow and young. Just all in all a prime piece of political specimen right there, and with a chance now in cabinet to shine for a week or so and then resign with great fuss and drama on a matter of high principle. Ought to be 10/1 max but I can't even find him quoted.

    Many people can't even find him, let alone quoted.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,568

    I remember when Julian Assange was being lauded by some as a fearless independent exposer of truth and given awards and uncritical praise from some quarters.
    You mean the 'arbitrarily detained' hero of freedom Julian Assange, surely.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,232

    Oh please, don't mention Stephen Barclay - Sunil will be encouraged to try his totally hilarious play on said MP's surname again. :disappointed:
    Stephen Lloyd will be voting for the deal too, two names May can bank on.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,568
    edited November 2018


    Parliament would have to vote on any referendum and on the question to be asked.

    Would it get a majority?
    It might. If we accept as truth the claims that parliament will not permit no deal, even the unthinkable with other options, even things outright ruled out before, become possible, even probable, since they have to positively decide on something to prevent no deal by default.
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited November 2018

    Many people can't even find him, let alone quoted.
    Unlike my Barclays card he isn't allowed out of the country by Mrs May - in case he tries to negotiate something on Brexit. He is purely a domestic as one might say!
  • I think Raheem sterling needs hypnotherapy to make him believe that when he plays for England he is actually playing for Man City. He would have 2 goals at least.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Yes. The Brexiters have been trying to smear and malign Carole since day one. Even some of the outriders on here have gone along with it.

    Brexit is nasty, among its other sins.
    Leaving aside any personal attacks on her.

    Carole seems to have started work from your premise of "Brexit is nasty" and worked from there.

    How many retractions and corrections has she had to make now?

    BTW - you don't think you are a bit of a hypocrite for complaining about people being smeared when you have tried to smear everyone who voted to leave in this very thread?

  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    edited November 2018

    Well other than the continuous retracted / corrections to her stories by the Guardian / Observer, they have just had an independent investigation, and found a central claim was not true.
    Well there you go.

    So this is a story about a particular journalist's character rather than a major political donation being made illegally by a foreign country that does not have interests that align with those of the UK.

    The published corrections are minor and have no material bearing on the story. But they are continually brought up. Why is that?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,247
    Y0kel said:

    Lets get a few things clear on Cadwalladr.

    1. There is nothing new in many of her revelations. The situation with Banks (and others) in particular was known for some time. Some of it was set out on this forum.

    2. She has stopped being a journalist and started acting the zealot based on her own prejudices.

    3. She is trying to change historical fact, the vote was to exit in a binary referendum. Its called democracy whether you like the result or not.

    I voted in favour of getting out of the EU. I have, however, not been behind the door regarding the likes of Banks and Farage and have been as clear as I can be about my problems with them even though some people think my views on them are somewhat harsh and, ridiculously, somehow causing legal jeopardy .

    On the other hand, being told that those of us who voted in favour exiting the EU that we are, at the least, dupes at the worst a sack of ignorant racist backwards by the comfy circle of the inhabitants of media and politico land is going to get a two fingered reaction.

    Yes, Putin's little fellow travellers really don't like being exposed, do they?

    When a journalist is so abused by politicians, we should take notice. It is what a free press is for.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,491
    edited November 2018

    Well there you go.

    So this is a story about a particular journalist's character rather than a major political donation being made illegally by a foreign country that does not have interests that align with those of the UK.

    The published corrections are minor and have no material bearing on the story. But they are continually brought up. Why is that?
    The corrections aren’t all minor and as I say an independent investigation found her central claim on the role of facebook data / ca / vote leave to be false.

    The whistleblower she based her story around is incredibly unreliable “witness” who has also been found to have been telling plenty of porkies.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203

    D

    My side? What side is that?
    Pro Brexit
  • NEW THREAD

  • Pro Brexit
    I voted remain.....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,546
    brendan16 said:

    Unlike my Barclays card he isn't allowed out of the country by Mrs May - in case he tries to negotiate something on Brexit. He is purely a domestic as one might say!
    He comes with a strict limit.

    I'll get my coat.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,043
    Alistair said:

    But isn't it already Labour's position to stay in the customs union?
    Not the single market though
  • Floater said:

    You sir are an offensive idiot.
    Seconded
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited November 2018
    Foxy said:

    Yes, Putin's little fellow travellers really don't like being exposed, do they?

    When a journalist is so abused by politicians, we should take notice. It is what a free press is for.
    The security services have already provided briefs on the extent of external actor efforts to influence the vote, they know the web of contacts and cut outs who had communication with some prominent figures, the know about cybersphere efforts. They are still going on today.

    Not surprisingly the public hasn't heard a peep but its possible they will.

    The issue of whether one or other campaign spent a million quid here or there in excess is frankly a non story. The question of foreign attempts to steer in the democratic process is another thing altogether, whether its something overt from nominal friends of the UK (Obama and his back of the queue nonsense) or not so overt measures by outright enemies. I would consider myself a British nationalist. I do not feel in anyway bound by image that such a phrase has got tagged with. By default I'm going to have a problem with external influence/interference. I'm also 100% a liberal who believes in democratic process. I just happen to believe that the nation state is just about the largest truly feasible unifying political entity. Anything supranational is co-operation, not control.

    The problem today is that to profess to have both views is apparently impossible, or so we are told because so much of the debate is being run by zealots and idealogues.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203

    I voted remain.....
    And now? I apologise if I am suggesting you are a Brexiter and are not.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    Floater said:

    Leaving aside any personal attacks on her.

    Carole seems to have started work from your premise of "Brexit is nasty" and worked from there.

    How many retractions and corrections has she had to make now?

    BTW - you don't think you are a bit of a hypocrite for complaining about people being smeared when you have tried to smear everyone who voted to leave in this very thread?

    Not really.
    I have not “smeared” anyone.
    Not on this thread, anyway.
  • Cyclefree said:


    You really think that Constitutions are a curtailment of democracy and lead to violence?? Really??

    Like the US Constitution, say?
    If they are imposed from the outside then yes.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,840
    Y0kel said:

    I would consider myself a British nationalist. I do not feel in anyway bound by image that such a phrase has got tagged with. By default I'm going to have a problem with external influence/interference. I'm also 100% a liberal who believes in democratic process. I just happen to believe that the nation state is just about the largest truly feasible unifying political entity. Anything supranational is co-operation, not control.

    The problem today is that to profess to have both views is apparently impossible, or so we are told because so much of the debate is being run by zealots and idealogues.

    The UK is clearly a supranational political construct and you live amongst people who reject the idea that they are part of a British nation. Unionists of any description voting for Brexit on the basis that they wanted a return to the nation state were like turkeys voting for Christmas.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    edited November 2018

    Seconded
    Turd
This discussion has been closed.