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If the boundary changes go through there's a new tory safe seat in her part of the world.Anorak said:0 -
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"Jo Johnson: the inside story of Brexit and where it all went wrong "
https://www.ft.com/content/92974b74-e8d9-11e8-885c-e64da4c0f9810 -
It's not April Fools day is it?IanB2 said:0 -
That's something to keep one warm when scavenging for food and insulin in a desolate wasteland*.MarqueeMark said:
It still represents an epic failure.rcs1000 said:
Of course the EU will be hurt by us exiting in a No Deal scenario. But we'll be worse hit. In all likelihood much worse hit.
* A joke, before some literalist klutz accuses me of scaremongering.0 -
Agreed. Trade deals, money, immigration and judges. She had delivered on all four.Sean_Fear said:
I'm on the other side of the EU argument to you. I dislike Theresa May's nanny statism and think she has a political tin ear, but I don't consider that she's sold me out on the EU.The_Taxman said:
I voted Tory in 2017 and I don't feel she has sold me out or any of the other Tory voters I know.GIN1138 said:
Yeah she's already sold Brexiteers (that's like 70% of her members and voters but we won't worry about that) down the river...The_Taxman said:
+1rottenborough said:
If I was May, no more balance. Just put in Dealers or Remainers into the Cabinet.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Great appointmentPulpstar said:
I agree the time for balance is over.
Why bother keeping up the pretense now?
A negotiation means a compromise.
I would rather Remain and if MPs with your views don't stop messing about I hope you get something you really don't like which is Remain or another referendum. If it means people like you leave the Tory party I will be glad as I cannot understand this obsession with Europe and wanting no deal otherwise known as economic suicide!0 -
Scarmonger...Anorak said:
That's something to keep one warm when scavenging for food and insulin in a desolate wasteland*.MarqueeMark said:
It still represents an epic failure.rcs1000 said:
Of course the EU will be hurt by us exiting in a No Deal scenario. But we'll be worse hit. In all likelihood much worse hit.
* A joke, before some literalist klutz accuses me of scaremongering.
Fine, take the fun away then.0 -
You seem fanatically keen to try to shift blame onto the EU for this, with post after post stating "it's not me, guv!".MarqueeMark said:Forget the UK. Look at what Brussels has got.
At the moment, they are looking at 2 years of red-line posturing resulting in a package that a mortally wounded PM cannot pass through the House. A crash-out Brexit is all they have to show for their "Non!".
Fucking A1 job, boys.
Luckily the EU economies are looking so strong they can take a loss of GDP in their stride.
Oh.
And a UK that is going to HAVE to come after them with a package of investment breaks and ultra-low corporate taxes that will make their eyes bleed.
Yep. A1 job. Prats.
You were an arch-leaver, perhaps even a Brexiteer. This is your mess.
Accept the responsibility.0 -
Certainly is... a lesson to learn here is very clear: Major reform of our politics is severely overdue. To be honest, if May gets her deal and calls another election she might end up being defeated as Churchill was, because the voters now loathe the Tories so much. On the other hand... um... Corbyn.IanB2 said:Our absurd voting system with so many MPs effectively sheltered from electoral pressure in their safe seats is a significant contributory factor to the current fiasco.
If a second referendum, then the Tories would be forced out regardless.
In any event, change is a-coming... eventually0 -
You'll never get a b and c only referendum through parliament, as the ERG-style nutters will screech and scream that no deal isn't on the ballot, and that it's all an establishment stitch-up.kle4 said:
It seems beyond them at present.logical_song said:
It shouldn't be beyond the wit of MPs to decide whether they wantkle4 said:
You've left out the remainery types voting against, it isn't just the ERG and Corbyn. You may not think it realistic, but, staggeringly, the thinking appears to be 'somehow we will prevent no deal, and then it will all work out with a brand new deal or remain'.JosiasJessop said:
Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.SouthamObserver said:
*) They block the current deal in parliament.
*) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
*) They pass this to the EU.
*) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
*) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.
I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.
Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.
They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
The ERG get huge amounts of stick for have no or very unrealistic and risky plans. But that lot are no less unrealistic. Simply asserting 'no deal won't be allowed, I am sure of it, then one of the contradictory plans we have for remain or a better deal will happen' is not a plan a competent legislator should be backing. People assert things cannot happen all the time, then they do.
At least the ERG are clear, for the most part, that they accept the risk of voting this down, or don't believe there are negatives to no deal.
a. No Deal - and I would assume that most wouldn't
b. May's deal - looking dodgy, but maybe
c. Remain - better than the other two, but might make us look a bit silly.
d. Put b. and c. to the people to give the outcome legitimacy.
We don't have to settle for a bad deal.
And they might have a point.-1 -
Stephen Barclay is Brexit sec.0
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Stephen Barclay replaces Raab0
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Who?0
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barclay to dxeu
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+1JosiasJessop said:
You seem fanatically keen to try to shift blame onto the EU for this, with post after post stating "it's not me, guv!".MarqueeMark said:Forget the UK. Look at what Brussels has got.
At the moment, they are looking at 2 years of red-line posturing resulting in a package that a mortally wounded PM cannot pass through the House. A crash-out Brexit is all they have to show for their "Non!".
Fucking A1 job, boys.
Luckily the EU economies are looking so strong they can take a loss of GDP in their stride.
Oh.
And a UK that is going to HAVE to come after them with a package of investment breaks and ultra-low corporate taxes that will make their eyes bleed.
Yep. A1 job. Prats.
You were an arch-leaver, perhaps even a Brexiteer. This is your mess.
Accept the responsibility.0 -
Now there's something she could offer the Labour leadership.IanB2 said:
If the boundary changes go through there's a new tory safe seat in her part of the world.Anorak said:0 -
Is there any system in the world (Even PR-STV) that doesn't create safe MPs ? If you're recommended as #1 vote for Sinn Fein's list in West Belfast then you are highly, highly likely to win whatever else happens.Cicero said:
Certainly is... a lesson to learn here is very clear: Major reform of our politics is severely overdueIanB2 said:Our absurd voting system with so many MPs effectively sheltered from electoral pressure in their safe seats is a significant contributory factor to the current fiasco.
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It's like being given the Black Spot by Blind Pew.rottenborough said:Stephen Barclay is Brexit sec.
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Rory The Tory is still looking at his phone with a tear in his eye....all that leg work over the past few days and some total unknown gets a big gig...again.rottenborough said:Stephen Barclay is Brexit sec.
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If it goes to a Referendum, I think the fairest course is simply the Deal, Yes or No. Then it's up to Parliament to decide what to do if the answer is No.JosiasJessop said:
You'll never get a b and c only referendum through parliament, as the ERG-style nutters will screech and scream that no deal isn't on the ballot, and that it's all an establishment stitch-up.kle4 said:
It seems beyond them at present.logical_song said:
It shouldn't be beyond the wit of MPs to decide whether they wantkle4 said:
You've left out the remainery types voting against, it isn't just the ERG and Corbyn. You may not think it realistic, but, staggeringly, the thinking appears to be 'somehow we will prevent no deal, and then it will all work out with a brand new deal or remain'.JosiasJessop said:
Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.SouthamObserver said:
*) They block the current deal in parliament.
*) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
*) They pass this to the EU.
*) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
*) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.
I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.
Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.
They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
The ERG get huge amounts of stick for have no or very unrealistic and risky plans. But that lot are no less unrealistic. Simply asserting 'no deal won't be allowed, I am sure of it, then one of the contradictory plans we have for remain or a better deal will happen' is not a plan a competent legislator should be backing. People assert things cannot happen all the time, then they do.
At least the ERG are clear, for the most part, that they accept the risk of voting this down, or don't believe there are negatives to no deal.
a. No Deal - and I would assume that most wouldn't
b. May's deal - looking dodgy, but maybe
c. Remain - better than the other two, but might make us look a bit silly.
d. Put b. and c. to the people to give the outcome legitimacy.
We don't have to settle for a bad deal.
And they might have a point.0 -
tbh, who cares? They're going in and out so fast I cba to remember their names.rottenborough said:Who?
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Who gets the Minister of State at Department of Health and Social Care job ?0
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The two positions on offer are both crap though. One is certain failure over UC mess and the other is over by March (FrancisUrquhart said:
Rory The Tory is still looking at his phone with a tear in his eye....all that leg work over the past few days and some total unknown gets a big gig...again.rottenborough said:Stephen Barclay is Brexit sec.
) 0 -
Yes, the patented PB Single Stochastical Vote system.Pulpstar said:
Is there any system in the world (Even PR-STV) that doesn't create safe MPs ? If you're recommended as #1 vote for Sinn Fein's list in West Belfast then you are highly, highly likely to win whatever else happens.Cicero said:
Certainly is... a lesson to learn here is very clear: Major reform of our politics is severely overdueIanB2 said:Our absurd voting system with so many MPs effectively sheltered from electoral pressure in their safe seats is a significant contributory factor to the current fiasco.
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Did she get the right Steve B?0
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How many letters is it now please. As Nicholoas Soames said the behaviour of these mps tweetimg that their letter had gone in is disgraceful.0
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Start by limiting the power of the overbearing parties.Cicero said:
Certainly is... a lesson to learn here is very clear: Major reform of our politics is severely overdueIanB2 said:Our absurd voting system with so many MPs effectively sheltered from electoral pressure in their safe seats is a significant contributory factor to the current fiasco.
Maximum annual spending for parties
Change manifestos from covering every dingbat and widget to only cover the National priorities, Finance, Foreign, Military, and whatever else has to be don on a National scale. The rest should be a personal manifesto so that the candidate can represent the concerns and views of the constituents that elected them and his views.
Look on internal party strife and argument as positive. If you can't hold different views you can't discuss, develop and improve.
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I think that's the only time in decades that an MP of whom I've never heard goes into Cabinet.0
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This one's for GIN1138 xxx
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/10634690215411630080 -
A pause while Stephen Barclay is Googled.
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But useful for the whips !SquareRoot said:How many letters is it now please. As Nicholoas Soames said the behaviour of these mps tweetimg that their letter had gone in is disgraceful.
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Yes, although I was sort-of including Corbyn in that, as that's one of the several contradictory positions he's simultaneously holding whilst secretly wanting a hard exit.kle4 said:
You've left out the remainery types voting against, it isn't just the ERG and Corbyn. You may not think it realistic, but, staggeringly, the thinking appears to be 'somehow we will prevent no deal, and then it will all work out with a brand new deal or remain'.JosiasJessop said:
Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.SouthamObserver said:
*) They block the current deal in parliament.
*) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
*) They pass this to the EU.
*) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
*) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.
I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.
Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.
They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
The ERG get huge amounts of stick for have no or very unrealistic and risky plans. But that lot are no less unrealistic. Simply asserting 'no deal won't be allowed, I am sure of it, then one of the contradictory plans we have for remain or a better deal will happen' is not a plan a competent legislator should be backing. People assert things cannot happen all the time, then they do.
At least the ERG are clear, for the most part, that they accept the risk of voting this down, or don't believe there are negatives to no deal.
I agree the arch-remainers are also being silly, but not to the extent that the ERG nutters are at the moment. If I was an arch-remainer, I'd be looking at playing the long game.
Oh, and also try to sell the EU to the public. Sadly, many of them couldn't be arsed to counteract the leave message before, or even during, the campaign. We're getting lots of howls from remainers, but precious few positive messages about the EU. I'd actually argue that's their insanity: calling for a second referendum without selling the EU to the electorate.0 -
I have no idea why he has been chosen....total mystery.....Scott_P said:twitter.com/tarajaneoreilly/status/1063470180720873472
The 24 Conservative MPs who are still on the backbenches and have never rebelled
#4 Steve Barclay (North East Cambridgeshire, 2010)
https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2012/09/the-forty-non-government-payroll-mps-who-havent-rebelled.html
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+1Sean_Fear said:
If it goes to a Referendum, I think the fairest course is simply the Deal, Yes or No. Then it's up to Parliament to decide what to do if the answer is No.JosiasJessop said:
You'll never get a b and c only referendum through parliament, as the ERG-style nutters will screech and scream that no deal isn't on the ballot, and that it's all an establishment stitch-up.kle4 said:
It seems beyond them at present.logical_song said:
It shouldn't be beyond the wit of MPs to decide whether they wantkle4 said:
You've left out the remainery types voting against, it isn't just the ERG and Corbyn. You may not think it realistic, but, staggeringly, the thinking appears to be 'somehow we will prevent no deal, and then it will all work out with a brand new deal or remain'.JosiasJessop said:
Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.SouthamObserver said:
*) They block the current deal in parliament.
*) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
*) They pass this to the EU.
*) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
*) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.
I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.
Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.
They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
The ERG get huge amounts of stick for have no or very unrealistic and risky plans. But that lot are no less unrealistic. Simply asserting 'no deal won't be allowed, I am sure of it, then one of the contradictory plans we have for remain or a better deal will happen' is not a plan a competent legislator should be backing. People assert things cannot happen all the time, then they do.
At least the ERG are clear, for the most part, that they accept the risk of voting this down, or don't believe there are negatives to no deal.
a. No Deal - and I would assume that most wouldn't
b. May's deal - looking dodgy, but maybe
c. Remain - better than the other two, but might make us look a bit silly.
d. Put b. and c. to the people to give the outcome legitimacy.
We don't have to settle for a bad deal.
And they might have a point.0 -
Actually the Brexit job becomes big again after March, unless that's supposed to be Liam's gig.rottenborough said:
The two positions on offer are both crap though. One is certain failure over UC mess and the other is over by March (FrancisUrquhart said:
Rory The Tory is still looking at his phone with a tear in his eye....all that leg work over the past few days and some total unknown gets a big gig...again.rottenborough said:Stephen Barclay is Brexit sec.
)0 -
Possibly even by himself.dixiedean said:A pause while Stephen Barclay is Googled.
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Rory not on the list. What obscure bit of legislation did he go over the top on ?FrancisUrquhart said:
I have no idea why he has been chosen....total mystery.....Scott_P said:twitter.com/tarajaneoreilly/status/1063470180720873472
The 24 Conservative MPs who are still on the backbenches and have never rebelled
#4 Steve Barclay (North East Cambridgeshire, 2010)
https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2012/09/the-forty-non-government-payroll-mps-who-havent-rebelled.html0 -
I’ve met him. Competent City Minister for six months.Richard_Nabavi said:I think that's the only time in decades that an MP of whom I've never heard goes into Cabinet.
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Minister of State at Department of Health and Social Care ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I’ve met him. Competent City Minister.Richard_Nabavi said:I think that's the only time in decades that an MP of whom I've never heard goes into Cabinet.
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The argument that one hears a lot from Remainers is that by remaining in the EU, we can reduce their potential to do harmful things to us - and it's a reasonable argument - but not one that wins support for the EU.JosiasJessop said:
Yes, although I was sort-of including Corbyn in that, as that's one of the several contradictory positions he's simultaneously holding whilst secretly wanting a hard exit.kle4 said:
You've left out the remainery types voting against, it isn't just the ERG and Corbyn. You may not think it realistic, but, staggeringly, the thinking appears to be 'somehow we will prevent no deal, and then it will all work out with a brand new deal or remain'.JosiasJessop said:
Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.SouthamObserver said:
*) They block the current deal in parliament.
*) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
*) They pass this to the EU.
*) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
*) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.
I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.
Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.
They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
The ERG get huge amounts of stick for have no or very unrealistic and risky plans. But that lot are no less unrealistic. Simply asserting 'no deal won't be allowed, I am sure of it, then one of the contradictory plans we have for remain or a better deal will happen' is not a plan a competent legislator should be backing. People assert things cannot happen all the time, then they do.
At least the ERG are clear, for the most part, that they accept the risk of voting this down, or don't believe there are negatives to no deal.
I agree the arch-remainers are also being silly, but not to the extent that the ERG nutters are at the moment. If I was an arch-remainer, I'd be looking at playing the long game.
Oh, and also try to sell the EU to the public. Sadly, many of them couldn't be arsed to counteract the leave message before, or even during, the campaign. We're getting lots of howls from remainers, but precious few positive messages about the EU. I'd actually argue that's their insanity: calling for a second referendum without selling the EU to the electorate.0 -
Wikipedia: He is most notable for everyone on twitter asking who he was when made Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union.dixiedean said:A pause while Stephen Barclay is Googled.
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Heard a good line earlier: "no leave is better than a bad leave"..... actually works pretty well!0
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But a No gets us nowhere, and whatever Parliament decides will still be seen as a betrayal by one side or the other.Sean_Fear said:If it goes to a Referendum, I think the fairest course is simply the Deal, Yes or No. Then it's up to Parliament to decide what to do if the answer is No.
This mess is a result of the leave campaigns' central contradiction and lie, and that would just repeat the mistake.0 -
Was City Minister since June 2017 to Jan 2018.Pulpstar said:
Minister of State at Department of Health and Social Care ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I’ve met him. Competent City Minister.Richard_Nabavi said:I think that's the only time in decades that an MP of whom I've never heard goes into Cabinet.
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do we know which "large city firm" Barclay trained at?0
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The people signing us up to be in this organisation against the wishes of the majority have to take their share of the blame too.JosiasJessop said:
You seem fanatically keen to try to shift blame onto the EU for this, with post after post stating "it's not me, guv!".MarqueeMark said:Forget the UK. Look at what Brussels has got.
At the moment, they are looking at 2 years of red-line posturing resulting in a package that a mortally wounded PM cannot pass through the House. A crash-out Brexit is all they have to show for their "Non!".
Fucking A1 job, boys.
Luckily the EU economies are looking so strong they can take a loss of GDP in their stride.
Oh.
And a UK that is going to HAVE to come after them with a package of investment breaks and ultra-low corporate taxes that will make their eyes bleed.
Yep. A1 job. Prats.
You were an arch-leaver, perhaps even a Brexiteer. This is your mess.
Accept the responsibility.0 -
Wollaston to the health job would be amusing now.0
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She would end up voting against herself.Pulpstar said:Wollaston to the health job would be amusing now.
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He's actually number 1 on the list because the 3 above him have retired from the Commons.FrancisUrquhart said:
I have no idea why he has been chosen....total mystery.....Scott_P said:twitter.com/tarajaneoreilly/status/1063470180720873472
The 24 Conservative MPs who are still on the backbenches and have never rebelled
#4 Steve Barclay (North East Cambridgeshire, 2010)
https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2012/09/the-forty-non-government-payroll-mps-who-havent-rebelled.html0 -
I think that whether it were Deal v Remain, Deal v No Deal, or Remain v No Deal, or a multiple choice, the losers would see it as a betrayal.JosiasJessop said:
But a No gets us nowhere, and whatever Parliament decides will still be seen as a betrayal by one side or the other.Sean_Fear said:If it goes to a Referendum, I think the fairest course is simply the Deal, Yes or No. Then it's up to Parliament to decide what to do if the answer is No.
This mess is a result of the leave campaigns' central contradiction and lie, and that would just repeat the mistake.0 -
And a 3 way choice can simply put, never be fair (Arrow's theorem)Sean_Fear said:
I think that whether it were Deal v Remain, Deal v No Deal, or Remain v No Deal, or a multiple choice, the losers would see it as a betrayal.JosiasJessop said:
But a No gets us nowhere, and whatever Parliament decides will still be seen as a betrayal by one side or the other.Sean_Fear said:If it goes to a Referendum, I think the fairest course is simply the Deal, Yes or No. Then it's up to Parliament to decide what to do if the answer is No.
This mess is a result of the leave campaigns' central contradiction and lie, and that would just repeat the mistake.0 -
When did that happen?Xenon said:
The people signing us up to be in this organisation against the wishes of the majority have to take their share of the blame too.JosiasJessop said:
You seem fanatically keen to try to shift blame onto the EU for this, with post after post stating "it's not me, guv!".MarqueeMark said:Forget the UK. Look at what Brussels has got.
At the moment, they are looking at 2 years of red-line posturing resulting in a package that a mortally wounded PM cannot pass through the House. A crash-out Brexit is all they have to show for their "Non!".
Fucking A1 job, boys.
Luckily the EU economies are looking so strong they can take a loss of GDP in their stride.
Oh.
And a UK that is going to HAVE to come after them with a package of investment breaks and ultra-low corporate taxes that will make their eyes bleed.
Yep. A1 job. Prats.
You were an arch-leaver, perhaps even a Brexiteer. This is your mess.
Accept the responsibility.0 -
Barclays Yes really .TheWhiteRabbit said:do we know which "large city firm" Barclay trained at?
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A spokesperson for the PM says his role "will be different to that held by Dominic Raab".
Different from, goddamit, different from.0 -
What do you think of this one?Sean_Fear said:
I'm on the other side of the EU argument to you. I dislike Theresa May's nanny statism and think she has a political tin ear, but I don't consider that she's sold me out on the EU.The_Taxman said:
I voted Tory in 2017 and I don't feel she has sold me out or any of the other Tory voters I know.GIN1138 said:
Yeah she's already sold Brexiteers (that's like 70% of her members and voters but we won't worry about that) down the river...The_Taxman said:
+1rottenborough said:
If I was May, no more balance. Just put in Dealers or Remainers into the Cabinet.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Great appointmentPulpstar said:
I agree the time for balance is over.
Why bother keeping up the pretense now?
A negotiation means a compromise.
I would rather Remain and if MPs with your views don't stop messing about I hope you get something you really don't like which is Remain or another referendum. If it means people like you leave the Tory party I will be glad as I cannot understand this obsession with Europe and wanting no deal otherwise known as economic suicide!
"Notwithstanding Article 126, the Joint Committee may, before 1 July 2020, adopt a single decision extending the transition period up to [31 December 20XX].”0 -
well yes, funny coincidnecedixiedean said:
Barclays Yes really .TheWhiteRabbit said:do we know which "large city firm" Barclay trained at?
but before that:
Stephen qualified as a solicitor in 1998. He worked as an insurance company lawyer for Axa Insurance, as a regulator for the Financial Services Authority, and as Director of Regulatory Affairs and then Head of Anti-Money Laundering and Sanctions at Barclays Retail Bank.0 -
So they are going to let him get the coffees in and thats about it.TheWhiteRabbit said:A spokesperson for the PM says his role "will be different to that held by Dominic Raab".
Different from, goddamit, different from.0 -
In a fantasy world of bulldogs, village greens, and friendly vicars.Bromptonaut said:
When did that happen?Xenon said:
The people signing us up to be in this organisation against the wishes of the majority have to take their share of the blame too.JosiasJessop said:
You seem fanatically keen to try to shift blame onto the EU for this, with post after post stating "it's not me, guv!".MarqueeMark said:Forget the UK. Look at what Brussels has got.
At the moment, they are looking at 2 years of red-line posturing resulting in a package that a mortally wounded PM cannot pass through the House. A crash-out Brexit is all they have to show for their "Non!".
Fucking A1 job, boys.
Luckily the EU economies are looking so strong they can take a loss of GDP in their stride.
Oh.
And a UK that is going to HAVE to come after them with a package of investment breaks and ultra-low corporate taxes that will make their eyes bleed.
Yep. A1 job. Prats.
You were an arch-leaver, perhaps even a Brexiteer. This is your mess.
Accept the responsibility.0 -
That is what the Brexiteers should now do if they believe what they say.tottenhamWC said:Heard a good line earlier: "no leave is better than a bad leave"..... actually works pretty well!
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Okay with it.shiney2 said:
What do you think of this one?Sean_Fear said:
I'm on the other side of the EU argument to you. I dislike Theresa May's nanny statism and think she has a political tin ear, but I don't consider that she's sold me out on the EU.The_Taxman said:
I voted Tory in 2017 and I don't feel she has sold me out or any of the other Tory voters I know.GIN1138 said:
Yeah she's already sold Brexiteers (that's like 70% of her members and voters but we won't worry about that) down the river...The_Taxman said:
+1rottenborough said:
If I was May, no more balance. Just put in Dealers or Remainers into the Cabinet.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Great appointmentPulpstar said:
I agree the time for balance is over.
Why bother keeping up the pretense now?
A negotiation means a compromise.
I would rather Remain and if MPs with your views don't stop messing about I hope you get something you really don't like which is Remain or another referendum. If it means people like you leave the Tory party I will be glad as I cannot understand this obsession with Europe and wanting no deal otherwise known as economic suicide!
"Notwithstanding Article 126, the Joint Committee may, before 1 July 2020, adopt a single decision extending the transition period up to [31 December 20XX].”
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But who has the health job !0
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Is it consistent with Leaving?Sean_Fear said:
Okay with it.shiney2 said:
What do you think of this one?Sean_Fear said:
I'm on the other side of the EU argument to you. I dislike Theresa May's nanny statism and think she has a political tin ear, but I don't consider that she's sold me out on the EU.The_Taxman said:
I voted Tory in 2017 and I don't feel she has sold me out or any of the other Tory voters I know.GIN1138 said:
Yeah she's already sold Brexiteers (that's like 70% of her members and voters but we won't worry about that) down the river...The_Taxman said:
+1rottenborough said:
If I was May, no more balance. Just put in Dealers or Remainers into the Cabinet.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Great appointmentPulpstar said:
I agree the time for balance is over.
Why bother keeping up the pretense now?
A negotiation means a compromise.
I would rather Remain and if MPs with your views don't stop messing about I hope you get something you really don't like which is Remain or another referendum. If it means people like you leave the Tory party I will be glad as I cannot understand this obsession with Europe and wanting no deal otherwise known as economic suicide!
"Notwithstanding Article 126, the Joint Committee may, before 1 July 2020, adopt a single decision extending the transition period up to [31 December 20XX].”0 -
The Treaty of Lisbon is the clearest example, when the government reneged on its promise of a referendum.Bromptonaut said:
When did that happen?Xenon said:
The people signing us up to be in this organisation against the wishes of the majority have to take their share of the blame too.JosiasJessop said:
You seem fanatically keen to try to shift blame onto the EU for this, with post after post stating "it's not me, guv!".MarqueeMark said:Forget the UK. Look at what Brussels has got.
At the moment, they are looking at 2 years of red-line posturing resulting in a package that a mortally wounded PM cannot pass through the House. A crash-out Brexit is all they have to show for their "Non!".
Fucking A1 job, boys.
Luckily the EU economies are looking so strong they can take a loss of GDP in their stride.
Oh.
And a UK that is going to HAVE to come after them with a package of investment breaks and ultra-low corporate taxes that will make their eyes bleed.
Yep. A1 job. Prats.
You were an arch-leaver, perhaps even a Brexiteer. This is your mess.
Accept the responsibility.0 -
Mind you, no-one can accuse Theresa May of not giving new talent a chance.0
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Yes, provided that we're negotiating an FTA with the EU.shiney2 said:
Is it consistent with Leaving?Sean_Fear said:
Okay with it.shiney2 said:
What do you think of this one?Sean_Fear said:
I'm on the other side of the EU argument to you. I dislike Theresa May's nanny statism and think she has a political tin ear, but I don't consider that she's sold me out on the EU.The_Taxman said:
I voted Tory in 2017 and I don't feel she has sold me out or any of the other Tory voters I know.GIN1138 said:
Yeah she's already sold Brexiteers (that's like 70% of her members and voters but we won't worry about that) down the river...The_Taxman said:
+1rottenborough said:
If I was May, no more balance. Just put in Dealers or Remainers into the Cabinet.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Great appointmentPulpstar said:
I agree the time for balance is over.
Why bother keeping up the pretense now?
A negotiation means a compromise.
I would rather Remain and if MPs with your views don't stop messing about I hope you get something you really don't like which is Remain or another referendum. If it means people like you leave the Tory party I will be glad as I cannot understand this obsession with Europe and wanting no deal otherwise known as economic suicide!
"Notwithstanding Article 126, the Joint Committee may, before 1 July 2020, adopt a single decision extending the transition period up to [31 December 20XX].”0 -
And why wouldn't we after we've left. I know leavers don't like it but the EU really isn't keen on countries being in the customs Union and outside the single market, which is more or less what we get with the backstop.Sean_Fear said:
Yes, provided that we're negotiating an FTA with the EU.shiney2 said:
Is it consistent with Leaving?Sean_Fear said:
Okay with it.shiney2 said:
What do you think of this one?Sean_Fear said:
I'm on the other side of the EU argument to you. I dislike Theresa May's nanny statism and think she has a political tin ear, but I don't consider that she's sold me out on the EU.The_Taxman said:
I voted Tory in 2017 and I don't feel she has sold me out or any of the other Tory voters I know.GIN1138 said:
Yeah she's already sold Brexiteers (that's like 70% of her members and voters but we won't worry about that) down the river...The_Taxman said:
+1rottenborough said:
If I was May, no more balance. Just put in Dealers or Remainers into the Cabinet.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Great appointmentPulpstar said:
I agree the time for balance is over.
Why bother keeping up the pretense now?
A negotiation means a compromise.
I would rather Remain and if MPs with your views don't stop messing about I hope you get something you really don't like which is Remain or another referendum. If it means people like you leave the Tory party I will be glad as I cannot understand this obsession with Europe and wanting no deal otherwise known as economic suicide!
"Notwithstanding Article 126, the Joint Committee may, before 1 July 2020, adopt a single decision extending the transition period up to [31 December 20XX].”
The ERG must be really thick if they don't get this point !0 -
Steve Baker is my local MP and I've met him. He gives swivel eyed loonies a bad name0
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Dunno - but he's quite the dish - wonder which side he bats on...Scott_P said:0 -
Did Stephen Barclay get to be director of Barclays Bank on the Major Major principle?
(In the novel Catch 22 a computer inadvertently promotes someone with the surname Major. In the process it completely destroys him because he can't cope with the responsibility)0 -
It's someone else's fault!Xenon said:
The people signing us up to be in this organisation against the wishes of the majority have to take their share of the blame too.JosiasJessop said:
You seem fanatically keen to try to shift blame onto the EU for this, with post after post stating "it's not me, guv!".MarqueeMark said:Forget the UK. Look at what Brussels has got.
At the moment, they are looking at 2 years of red-line posturing resulting in a package that a mortally wounded PM cannot pass through the House. A crash-out Brexit is all they have to show for their "Non!".
Fucking A1 job, boys.
Luckily the EU economies are looking so strong they can take a loss of GDP in their stride.
Oh.
And a UK that is going to HAVE to come after them with a package of investment breaks and ultra-low corporate taxes that will make their eyes bleed.
Yep. A1 job. Prats.
You were an arch-leaver, perhaps even a Brexiteer. This is your mess.
Accept the responsibility.
Please change the record.0 -
If only there were a previous person who had a meteoric rise from City minister to PM0
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Some people always will. However we'd be giving them good reason to say that if this was to happen, and that makes their arguments almost impossible to defeat.Sean_Fear said:
I think that whether it were Deal v Remain, Deal v No Deal, or Remain v No Deal, or a multiple choice, the losers would see it as a betrayal.JosiasJessop said:
But a No gets us nowhere, and whatever Parliament decides will still be seen as a betrayal by one side or the other.Sean_Fear said:If it goes to a Referendum, I think the fairest course is simply the Deal, Yes or No. Then it's up to Parliament to decide what to do if the answer is No.
This mess is a result of the leave campaigns' central contradiction and lie, and that would just repeat the mistake.
Which again, mirrors the 2016 referendum.0 -
Is it possible that May has been busy perfecting cloning to create the perfect generic Tory minister? Could be a useful resource in the weeks to come.0
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Totally agree with that.Sean_Fear said:
The argument that one hears a lot from Remainers is that by remaining in the EU, we can reduce their potential to do harmful things to us - and it's a reasonable argument - but not one that wins support for the EU.JosiasJessop said:
Yes, although I was sort-of including Corbyn in that, as that's one of the several contradictory positions he's simultaneously holding whilst secretly wanting a hard exit.kle4 said:
You've left out the remainery types voting against, it isn't just the ERG and Corbyn. You may not think it realistic, but, staggeringly, the thinking appears to be 'somehow we will prevent no deal, and then it will all work out with a brand new deal or remain'.JosiasJessop said:
Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.SouthamObserver said:
*) They block the current deal in parliament.
*) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
*) They pass this to the EU.
*) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
*) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.
I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.
Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.
They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
The ERG get huge amounts of stick for have no or very unrealistic and risky plans. But that lot are no less unrealistic. Simply asserting 'no deal won't be allowed, I am sure of it, then one of the contradictory plans we have for remain or a better deal will happen' is not a plan a competent legislator should be backing. People assert things cannot happen all the time, then they do.
At least the ERG are clear, for the most part, that they accept the risk of voting this down, or don't believe there are negatives to no deal.
I agree the arch-remainers are also being silly, but not to the extent that the ERG nutters are at the moment. If I was an arch-remainer, I'd be looking at playing the long game.
Oh, and also try to sell the EU to the public. Sadly, many of them couldn't be arsed to counteract the leave message before, or even during, the campaign. We're getting lots of howls from remainers, but precious few positive messages about the EU. I'd actually argue that's their insanity: calling for a second referendum without selling the EU to the electorate.0 -
Even if there are well over 48 letters in now, the sting has gone. Much more likely May will win as the momentum has been stalled.
Mr Brady will feature in a future Honours List, I'm quite sure.0 -
Not very encouraging, but I doubt he will be around for long.TenYearsGone said:Steve Baker is my local MP and I've met him. He gives swivel eyed loonies a bad name
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But who gets to be Matt Hancock's teaboy :{}0
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The Simon Cowell of politics.Richard_Nabavi said:Mind you, no-one can accuse Theresa May of not giving new talent a chance.
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We've already had one vote where politicians were left to make up what they thought people were voting for afterwards. If there is another one, both sides of the question need to lead to specific outcomes.philiph said:
+1Sean_Fear said:
If it goes to a Referendum, I think the fairest course is simply the Deal, Yes or No. Then it's up to Parliament to decide what to do if the answer is No.JosiasJessop said:
You'll never get a b and c only referendum through parliament, as the ERG-style nutters will screech and scream that no deal isn't on the ballot, and that it's all an establishment stitch-up.kle4 said:
It seems beyond them at present.logical_song said:
It shouldn't be beyond the wit of MPs to decide whether they wantkle4 said:
You've left out the remainery types voting against, it isn't just the ERG and Corbyn. You may not think it realistic, but, staggeringly, the thinking appears to be 'somehow we will prevent no deal, and then it will all work out with a brand new deal or remain'.JosiasJessop said:
Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.SouthamObserver said:
*) They they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
*) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.
I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.
Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.
They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
The ERG get huge amounts of stick for have no or very unrealistic and risky plans. But that lot are no less unrealistic. Simply asserting 'no deal won't be allowed, I am sure of it, then one of the contradictory plans we have for remain or a better deal will happen' is not a plan a competent legislator should be backing. People assert things cannot happen all the time, then they do.
At least the ERG are clear, for the most part, that they accept the risk of voting this down, or don't believe there are negatives to no deal.
a. No Deal - and I would assume that most wouldn't
b. May's deal - looking dodgy, but maybe
c. Remain - better than the other two, but might make us look a bit silly.
d. Put b. and c. to the people to give the outcome legitimacy.
We don't have to settle for a bad deal.
And they might have a point.0 -
Time for a big Labour rebellion.JosiasJessop said:
You'll never get a b and c only referendum through parliament, as the ERG-style nutters will screech and scream that no deal isn't on the ballot, and that it's all an establishment stitch-up.kle4 said:
It seems beyond them at present.logical_song said:
It shouldn't be beyond the wit of MPs to decide whether they wantkle4 said:
You've left out the remainery types voting against, it isn't just the ERG and Corbyn. You may not think it realistic, but, staggeringly, the thinking appears to be 'somehow we will prevent no deal, and then it will all work out with a brand new deal or remain'.JosiasJessop said:
Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.SouthamObserver said:
*) They block the current deal in parliament.
*) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
*) They pass this to the EU.
*) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
*) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.
I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.
Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.
They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
The ERG get huge amounts of stick for have no or very unrealistic and risky plans. But that lot are no less unrealistic. Simply asserting 'no deal won't be allowed, I am sure of it, then one of the contradictory plans we have for remain or a better deal will happen' is not a plan a competent legislator should be backing. People assert things cannot happen all the time, then they do.
At least the ERG are clear, for the most part, that they accept the risk of voting this down, or don't believe there are negatives to no deal.
a. No Deal - and I would assume that most wouldn't
b. May's deal - looking dodgy, but maybe
c. Remain - better than the other two, but might make us look a bit silly.
d. Put b. and c. to the people to give the outcome legitimacy.
We don't have to settle for a bad deal.
And they might have a point.0 -
Now would be a good time for a damaging resignation and maybe to set a record.0
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He already has his K....and doubtless a peerage when he eventually retires.Anorak said:Even if there are well over 48 letters in now, the sting has gone. Much more likely May will win as the momentum has been stalled.
Mr Brady will feature in a future Honours List, I'm quite sure.0 -
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No but this really is moving the deckchairs on the well-known ocean liner. Events are no longer in the control of the government, and the iceberg is fast approaching. It will sink either Brexit or the country, or perhaps both, before too long.Richard_Nabavi said:Mind you, no-one can accuse Theresa May of not giving new talent a chance.
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It might be useful for No 10 to have the VONC just after the EU summit, but before the Commons vote.Anorak said:Even if there are well over 48 letters in now, the sting has gone. Much more likely May will win as the momentum has been stalled.
Mr Brady will feature in a future Honours List, I'm quite sure.
Brady can check his mailbox at that point.0 -
He's already Sir Graham Brady of course. Knighted this very year in fact.Anorak said:Even if there are well over 48 letters in now, the sting has gone. Much more likely May will win as the momentum has been stalled.
Mr Brady will feature in a future Honours List, I'm quite sure.0 -
I fail to recall riots in the streets over it.Sean_Fear said:
The Treaty of Lisbon is the clearest example, when the government reneged on its promise of a referendum.Bromptonaut said:
When did that happen?Xenon said:
The people signing us up to be in this organisation against the wishes of the majority have to take their share of the blame too.JosiasJessop said:
You seem fanatically keen to try to shift blame onto the EU for this, with post after post stating "it's not me, guv!".MarqueeMark said:Forget the UK. Look at what Brussels has got.
At the moment, they are looking at 2 years of red-line posturing resulting in a package that a mortally wounded PM cannot pass through the House. A crash-out Brexit is all they have to show for their "Non!".
Fucking A1 job, boys.
Luckily the EU economies are looking so strong they can take a loss of GDP in their stride.
Oh.
And a UK that is going to HAVE to come after them with a package of investment breaks and ultra-low corporate taxes that will make their eyes bleed.
Yep. A1 job. Prats.
You were an arch-leaver, perhaps even a Brexiteer. This is your mess.
Accept the responsibility.0 -
So he will be actually the one going to Starbucks when Brexit Secretary is asked to get the coffees in by May / Robbins.Scott_P said:0 -
I'm guessing that if more than a third of Tory MPs voted against Theresa May it would be difficult for her to carry on as leader.0
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TM seems to be strengthening her position tonight0
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So JRM despite his supposed intelligence can't see this because....?rottenborough said:0 -
Tracey crouch news?0
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It's his Dad who does for him really. Calling your son Major Major Major is asking for trouble.FF43 said:Did Stephen Barclay get to be director of Barclays Bank on the Major Major principle?
(In the novel Catch 22 a computer inadvertently promotes someone with the surname Major. In the process it completely destroys him because he can't cope with the responsibility)0 -
You don't know Mrs May do you?AndyJS said:I'm guessing that if more than a third of Tory MPs voted against Theresa May it would be difficult for her to carry on as leader.
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Or the poch....Anorak said:
The Simon Cowell of politics.Richard_Nabavi said:Mind you, no-one can accuse Theresa May of not giving new talent a chance.
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Who is Matt Hancock's new lackey though >?0
This discussion has been closed.