Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Mad Tory Friday part 2…..

135678

Comments

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,159
    edited November 2018
    Nowhere near Corbyn's
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Why claim you have 48 letters when you clearly don't? Just makes you look stupid.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.

    *) They block the current deal in parliament.
    *) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
    *) They pass this to the EU.
    *) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
    *) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.

    I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.

    Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.

    They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
    You've left out the remainery types voting against, it isn't just the ERG and Corbyn. You may not think it realistic, but, staggeringly, the thinking appears to be 'somehow we will prevent no deal, and then it will all work out with a brand new deal or remain'.

    The ERG get huge amounts of stick for have no or very unrealistic and risky plans. But that lot are no less unrealistic. Simply asserting 'no deal won't be allowed, I am sure of it, then one of the contradictory plans we have for remain or a better deal will happen' is not a plan a competent legislator should be backing. People assert things cannot happen all the time, then they do.

    At least the ERG are clear, for the most part, that they accept the risk of voting this down, or don't believe there are negatives to no deal.
    It shouldn't be beyond the wit of MPs to decide whether they want

    a. No Deal - and I would assume that most wouldn't
    b. May's deal - looking dodgy, but maybe
    c. Remain - better than the other two, but might make us look a bit silly.
    d. Put b. and c. to the people to give the outcome legitimacy.

    We don't have to settle for a bad deal.
    It seems beyond them at present.
    People know what they don't want, but they don't know what they want.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    There is a shift in the time-space firmament.

    The scientific constant is always in balance so, under this adjusted gravity, the number of letters wedged in Graham Brady Old Lady's backside is now 46.9999999999999999.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    kle4 said:

    The Tories seem intent on gifting Corbyn the next election. Those sending in no confidence letters are a completely disorganised rabble with no idea what they want instead. Those supporting May are supporting an atrociously bad deal with no merits and to deliver which the Tories have abdicated their entire domestic policy agenda. It’s shameful.

    It may be a bad deal, but it does have merits. To take the most obvious one for Brexiters, it ensures Brexit actually happens. That is still probable even without it, but not as certain is it was.
    With immigration undecided, trade unresolved, the common rule book over which we have no say foisted on us, NI left in limbo, the transition period length unresolved, how is that Brexit ?
    It's Britain leaving the European Union. Which was the only thing on the referendum ballot paper and the only thing that there is an actual mandate for.

    The Withdrawal Agreement was always intended to be phase I of the disengagement, that's what "transition period" means. You can't disentangle forty years of economic integration overnight. Well you can, but your economy will crash and burn if you do.
  • AndyJS said:

    Why claim you have 48 letters when you clearly don't? Just makes you look stupid.

    I think you may have answered your own question.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Mrs May should announce a referendum in Northern Ireland on that part of her plan. I suspect that it would pass by a large margin.

    Is that possible? It would be a good ploy if it was... but it unlocks the argument for Scotland too. And Sadiq would want his say. As would South West Central Norfolk.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,746

    RoyalBlue said:

    I think it’s getting to the point that May should tell the ERG that if they can’t get the votes by the end of next week for a VONC, and they continue to oppose the government on Brexit, the whip will be withdrawn. If that means a general election that gives Corbyn a majority, thanks to a Tory split, so be it. The ERG, and everyone associated with it, will be finished.

    These people are a cancer in the Conservative Party. They must concede or be cut out.

    I have a feeling if she did that the Tories would win the subsequent election.
    Yes it would be the Tories’ Clause IV moment.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    I can only imagine the WhatsApp group messages among the Tory MPs, especially ERG, trying to find out who has sent letters etc.

    I am guessing Graham Brady has probably quietly unsubscribed from all the groups and blocked everybody.

    Is it possible to send a letter to Graham Brady Old Lady by WhatsApp, or perhaps post one on Instagram and tag him in?
  • Jim Acosta has his pass back.

    A judge appointed by Trump has so ordered.
  • rpjs said:

    kle4 said:

    The Tories seem intent on gifting Corbyn the next election. Those sending in no confidence letters are a completely disorganised rabble with no idea what they want instead. Those supporting May are supporting an atrociously bad deal with no merits and to deliver which the Tories have abdicated their entire domestic policy agenda. It’s shameful.

    It may be a bad deal, but it does have merits. To take the most obvious one for Brexiters, it ensures Brexit actually happens. That is still probable even without it, but not as certain is it was.
    With immigration undecided, trade unresolved, the common rule book over which we have no say foisted on us, NI left in limbo, the transition period length unresolved, how is that Brexit ?
    It's Britain leaving the European Union. Which was the only thing on the referendum ballot paper and the only thing that there is an actual mandate for.

    The Withdrawal Agreement was always intended to be phase I of the disengagement, that's what "transition period" means. You can't disentangle forty years of economic integration overnight. Well you can, but your economy will crash and burn if you do.
    The transition period was supposed to be about giving people time to adjust to the changes not to negotiate the changes themselves.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239

    My Sunday thread is basically a list of the ERG members and me writing a swear word or fifteen next to their name.

    I wish Steve Baker had a vagina on his head so someone could fuck some sense into him.

    That's a bit hetero-centric, TSE. He could just as easily have an arse on his head.

    Given that he appears to have s**t-for-brains, I haven't actually ruled that possibility out.
  • XenonXenon Posts: 471
    rpjs said:

    kle4 said:

    The Tories seem intent on gifting Corbyn the next election. Those sending in no confidence letters are a completely disorganised rabble with no idea what they want instead. Those supporting May are supporting an atrociously bad deal with no merits and to deliver which the Tories have abdicated their entire domestic policy agenda. It’s shameful.

    It may be a bad deal, but it does have merits. To take the most obvious one for Brexiters, it ensures Brexit actually happens. That is still probable even without it, but not as certain is it was.
    With immigration undecided, trade unresolved, the common rule book over which we have no say foisted on us, NI left in limbo, the transition period length unresolved, how is that Brexit ?
    It's Britain leaving the European Union. Which was the only thing on the referendum ballot paper and the only thing that there is an actual mandate for.

    The Withdrawal Agreement was always intended to be phase I of the disengagement, that's what "transition period" means. You can't disentangle forty years of economic integration overnight. Well you can, but your economy will crash and burn if you do.
    Is there any way to get from phase 1 to phase 2?
    I can imagine the EU can just tell us to get stuffed if we try to negotiate anything else.
  • I have a friend whose brothers do the emergency forest fire stuff. It is a crazy crazy job and one which doesn't pay that well or give very good benefits / much down time.

    During "fire season" most of these guys drive themselves around the country to fight the fires and rescue people, with little rest during or between assignments.

    The really chilling thing for me was when they showed me the fire shelters bags, which they are issued with in which if they get caught out they get into in a last ditch attempt to survive. However, they can only take so much, and so not uncommon to find them dead inside.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628

    Jim Acosta has his pass back.

    A judge appointed by Trump has so ordered.

    Not that he will ever get asked to put a question.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Nigelb said:

    Time to redefine the erg as a measure of intelligence or credibility ?

    An erg is approximately the amount of work done (or energy consumed) by one common house fly performing one "push up"...

    Douglas Adam's 'The Meaning of Liff' ?

    My favorite was 'Blean' (A village I spent quite some time in)
    I loved Gweek, which was a car radio aeriel made from a metal coat-hanger. Sadly, that word is all that remains these days.
    Why? Gweek, or coat-hanger aeriels have gone missing?
    Gweek the place was still there last time I passed it.....
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Xenon said:

    rpjs said:

    kle4 said:

    The Tories seem intent on gifting Corbyn the next election. Those sending in no confidence letters are a completely disorganised rabble with no idea what they want instead. Those supporting May are supporting an atrociously bad deal with no merits and to deliver which the Tories have abdicated their entire domestic policy agenda. It’s shameful.

    It may be a bad deal, but it does have merits. To take the most obvious one for Brexiters, it ensures Brexit actually happens. That is still probable even without it, but not as certain is it was.
    With immigration undecided, trade unresolved, the common rule book over which we have no say foisted on us, NI left in limbo, the transition period length unresolved, how is that Brexit ?
    It's Britain leaving the European Union. Which was the only thing on the referendum ballot paper and the only thing that there is an actual mandate for.

    The Withdrawal Agreement was always intended to be phase I of the disengagement, that's what "transition period" means. You can't disentangle forty years of economic integration overnight. Well you can, but your economy will crash and burn if you do.
    Is there any way to get from phase 1 to phase 2?
    I can imagine the EU can just tell us to get stuffed if we try to negotiate anything else.
    Which of course is what will happen...

    Or they will let us go but we'll have to let them have Northern Ireland in the process, as outlined by Selmayr.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    F1: anyone thinking of backing my Gasly each way (fifth the odds top three) suggestion at 26 might want to look again as he's lengthened to 34 for reasons that I can only assume relate to nobody backing him.

    Imagine this year's Red Bull with half the power deficit and more reliability. He's got a decent shot next year of being top three. 34, longer with boost, is just too long, I think. Not putting down a lot (Bottas this year proved the folly of getting carried away) but worth backing, I think.

    Maybe canny punters lay your tips as soon as they appear?
  • Xenon said:

    rpjs said:

    kle4 said:

    The Tories seem intent on gifting Corbyn the next election. Those sending in no confidence letters are a completely disorganised rabble with no idea what they want instead. Those supporting May are supporting an atrociously bad deal with no merits and to deliver which the Tories have abdicated their entire domestic policy agenda. It’s shameful.

    It may be a bad deal, but it does have merits. To take the most obvious one for Brexiters, it ensures Brexit actually happens. That is still probable even without it, but not as certain is it was.
    With immigration undecided, trade unresolved, the common rule book over which we have no say foisted on us, NI left in limbo, the transition period length unresolved, how is that Brexit ?
    It's Britain leaving the European Union. Which was the only thing on the referendum ballot paper and the only thing that there is an actual mandate for.

    The Withdrawal Agreement was always intended to be phase I of the disengagement, that's what "transition period" means. You can't disentangle forty years of economic integration overnight. Well you can, but your economy will crash and burn if you do.
    Is there any way to get from phase 1 to phase 2?
    I can imagine the EU can just tell us to get stuffed if we try to negotiate anything else.
    They don't want the backstop (if it comes into effect) to be indefinite because it would breach their Four Freedoms. That is why they will want to negotiate an FTA with us.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,781
    It'll be mildly amusing if all this concludes in Corbyn getting ousted. In any normal circumstances the opposition would have been able to kill off a government so wracked with conflict. Of course a Labour party who's bottoms are so firmly glued to the fence haven't been able to do that. So far the fence-sitting has been an inspired choice, but its hardly preparing them for government.

    I also wonder if the heavy barrage of EU 'that's it' comments might be reflective of their enthusiasm to have another round of talks with Corbyn.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,151
    edited November 2018

    Jim Acosta has his pass back.

    A judge appointed by Trump has so ordered.

    In a way, I doubt Trump is that unhappy, as he can play it as the deep state as usual. Like his travel ban.

    Having read more about Acosta, I actually think he should have got the boot. He has form for being a ranty arsehole shouting out stuff at really inopportune moments when he has been asked not to. Apparently he did so during signing agreement with Rocket Man, demanding he answered him about political prisoners in North Korea.

    If everybody took his approach to dealing with a elected officials, it would be a total shit show.
  • AndyJS said:

    Why claim you have 48 letters when you clearly don't? Just makes you look stupid.

    Possibly because of the suggested 48 hour delay between Brady getting the letters and announcing that he has? Definitively saying that you've got them would put him in a difficult position.
  • I have a friend whose brothers do the emergency forest fire stuff. It is a crazy crazy job and one which doesn't pay that well or give very good benefits / much down time.

    During "fire season" most of these guys drive themselves around the country to fight the fires and rescue people, with little rest during or between assignments.

    The really chilling thing for me was when they showed me the fire shelters bags, which they are issued with in which if they get caught out they get into in a last ditch attempt to survive. However, they can only take so much, and so not uncommon to find them dead inside.

    What a horrible choice. Putting the certainty of being roasted alive, but swiftly, against the risk of being slowly cooked inside a bag.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited November 2018
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    edited November 2018

    Jim Acosta has his pass back.

    A judge appointed by Trump has so ordered.

    In a way, I doubt Trump is that unhappy, as he can play it as the deep state as usual. Like his travel ban.

    Having read more about Acosta, I actually think he should have got the boot. He has form for being a ranty arsehole shouting out stuff at really inopportune moments when he has been asked not to. Apparently he did so during signing agreement with Rocket Man, demanding he answered him about political prisoners in North Korea.

    If everybody took his approach to dealing with a elected officials, it would be a total shit show.
    Trump can use reporters like this for his own ends.
  • Mr. B2, you scallywag!
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,084
    tlg86 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    I think it’s getting to the point that May should tell the ERG that if they can’t get the votes by the end of next week for a VONC, and they continue to oppose the government on Brexit, the whip will be withdrawn. If that means a general election that gives Corbyn a majority, thanks to a Tory split, so be it. The ERG, and everyone associated with it, will be finished.

    These people are a cancer in the Conservative Party. They must concede or be cut out.

    And that would be the death of the Conservative Party - though that's likely to happen anyway.
    You know, I really don't think it will. On the other hand, even if they scrape the numbers for a VNOC they will lose and Gervase Brook-Hamster is revealed as weak as well as stupid. If they don't get the numbers by Tuesday, then its all over for the nutters and the Crash-out.

    Meanwhile Cruella de Leadsom and Liam "Iran" Fox, may have the capacity to cause a lot of trouble from inside the tent, while professing loyalty...but they hold very few cards against the PM, who has never trusted them anyway. I also think that the bulk of the Tory Party will get a lot closer to nurse, for fear of something worse. I think I'm backing the BDW to stay now. Still 50/50 on a second vote, but think that May is tantalisingly close to getting her deal... Its a crappy deal, but it will be accepted by the voters because it wont lead to total f**king chaos, and will make T May look like the saviour of the day (albeit the saviour against her own nutters).

    The deal even gives the Remain side the chimeric hope of re-entry "one day"...
  • Sean_Fear said:

    I have a friend whose brothers do the emergency forest fire stuff. It is a crazy crazy job and one which doesn't pay that well or give very good benefits / much down time.

    During "fire season" most of these guys drive themselves around the country to fight the fires and rescue people, with little rest during or between assignments.

    The really chilling thing for me was when they showed me the fire shelters bags, which they are issued with in which if they get caught out they get into in a last ditch attempt to survive. However, they can only take so much, and so not uncommon to find them dead inside.

    What a horrible choice. Putting the certainty of being roasted alive, but swiftly, against the risk of being slowly cooked inside a bag.
    Absolutely. I admire the bravery of my friends brothers, but at the same time scratch my head somewhat, as they have family and during a normal year when it comes to the winter they often have to find themselves other jobs to support themselves.
  • Amber alert!!!.Back in the fold.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,151
    edited November 2018
    Some civil servants aren't going to be happy that Amber Rudd is back....as I am sure that grudge is very much held.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    Sean_Fear said:

    Xenon said:

    rpjs said:

    kle4 said:

    The Tories seem intent on gifting Corbyn the next election. Those sending in no confidence letters are a completely disorganised rabble with no idea what they want instead. Those supporting May are supporting an atrociously bad deal with no merits and to deliver which the Tories have abdicated their entire domestic policy agenda. It’s shameful.

    It may be a bad deal, but it does have merits. To take the most obvious one for Brexiters, it ensures Brexit actually happens. That is still probable even without it, but not as certain is it was.
    With immigration undecided, trade unresolved, the common rule book over which we have no say foisted on us, NI left in limbo, the transition period length unresolved, how is that Brexit ?
    It's Britain leaving the European Union. Which was the only thing on the referendum ballot paper and the only thing that there is an actual mandate for.

    The Withdrawal Agreement was always intended to be phase I of the disengagement, that's what "transition period" means. You can't disentangle forty years of economic integration overnight. Well you can, but your economy will crash and burn if you do.
    Is there any way to get from phase 1 to phase 2?
    I can imagine the EU can just tell us to get stuffed if we try to negotiate anything else.
    They don't want the backstop (if it comes into effect) to be indefinite because it would breach their Four Freedoms. That is why they will want to negotiate an FTA with us.
    @Sean_F are you back to posting under Sean_Fear now, or is this an impostor?!
  • Amber Rudd 'to replace Esther McVey as work and pensions secretary'
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Scott_P said:
    Fill your boots Amber. You'll be out on your ear whenever the next election is held.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN says

    Poverty envoy says callous policies driven by political desire for social re-engineering"

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/16/uk-austerity-has-inflicted-great-misery-on-citizens-un-says
  • Talk about poisoned chalice.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Amber Rudd to DWP
  • GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Fill your boots Amber. You'll be out on your ear whenever the next election is held.
    unlike McVey who as we know never lost an election
  • If I was May, no more balance. Just put in Dealers or Remainers into the Cabinet.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    AndyJS said:

    "UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN says

    Poverty envoy says callous policies driven by political desire for social re-engineering"

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/16/uk-austerity-has-inflicted-great-misery-on-citizens-un-says

    Oh dear, bless. Poverty is lower now on every single measure than it was before 'austerity'. Put that in his pipe and smoke it.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    Could she bring Fallon back as BrexSec?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Cicero said:

    tlg86 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    I think it’s getting to the point that May should tell the ERG that if they can’t get the votes by the end of next week for a VONC, and they continue to oppose the government on Brexit, the whip will be withdrawn. If that means a general election that gives Corbyn a majority, thanks to a Tory split, so be it. The ERG, and everyone associated with it, will be finished.

    These people are a cancer in the Conservative Party. They must concede or be cut out.

    And that would be the death of the Conservative Party - though that's likely to happen anyway.
    You know, I really don't think it will. On the other hand, even if they scrape the numbers for a VNOC they will lose and Gervase Brook-Hamster is revealed as weak as well as stupid. If they don't get the numbers by Tuesday, then its all over for the nutters and the Crash-out.

    Meanwhile Cruella de Leadsom and Liam "Iran" Fox, may have the capacity to cause a lot of trouble from inside the tent, while professing loyalty...but they hold very few cards against the PM, who has never trusted them anyway. I also think that the bulk of the Tory Party will get a lot closer to nurse, for fear of something worse. I think I'm backing the BDW to stay now. Still 50/50 on a second vote, but think that May is tantalisingly close to getting her deal... Its a crappy deal, but it will be accepted by the voters because it wont lead to total f**king chaos, and will make T May look like the saviour of the day (albeit the saviour against her own nutters).

    The deal even gives the Remain side the chimeric hope of re-entry "one day"...
    Suspect the 'realities' of the deal will be that people's lives will continue as normal, and all this talk about vassalage will evaporate like the morning mist. The government will make a big show about restricting unskilled immigration, and the ongoing and increasingly-pathetic screams of the remaining hard brexiteers will be ignored by all and sundry.

    If we get the deal, of course.
  • Mortimer said:

    Sean_Fear said:

    Xenon said:

    rpjs said:

    kle4 said:

    The Tories seem intent on gifting Corbyn the next election. Those sending in no confidence letters are a completely disorganised rabble with no idea what they want instead. Those supporting May are supporting an atrociously bad deal with no merits and to deliver which the Tories have abdicated their entire domestic policy agenda. It’s shameful.

    It may be a bad deal, but it does have merits. To take the most obvious one for Brexiters, it ensures Brexit actually happens. That is still probable even without it, but not as certain is it was.
    With immigration undecided, trade unresolved, the common rule book over which we have no say foisted on us, NI left in limbo, the transition period length unresolved, how is that Brexit ?
    It's Britain leaving the European Union. Which was the only thing on the referendum ballot paper and the only thing that there is an actual mandate for.

    The Withdrawal Agreement was always intended to be phase I of the disengagement, that's what "transition period" means. You can't disentangle forty years of economic integration overnight. Well you can, but your economy will crash and burn if you do.
    Is there any way to get from phase 1 to phase 2?
    I can imagine the EU can just tell us to get stuffed if we try to negotiate anything else.
    They don't want the backstop (if it comes into effect) to be indefinite because it would breach their Four Freedoms. That is why they will want to negotiate an FTA with us.
    @Sean_F are you back to posting under Sean_Fear now, or is this an impostor?!
    It's me. I just can't sign into Hotmail right now.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    A fifth of the population, amounting to 14m people, are living in poverty

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46236642

    Total horseshit. If 25% of the population were living in real poverty there would be widespread riots on a daily basis.

    They keep using this relative poverty term, despite even those who came up with the metric rejecting how it is now used.

    Yup 60% of average household earnings. The ramping up of the tax free allowance and the NLW increases have actually made quite a bit of difference (if you think its important that is). With the medium term intention to make the NLW and 60% of income the same thing and pegged. So no one working full time should be below the poverty line.
  • Sean_Fear said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sean_Fear said:

    Xenon said:

    rpjs said:

    kle4 said:

    The Tories seem intent on gifting Corbyn the next election. Those sending in no confidence letters are a completely disorganised rabble with no idea what they want instead. Those supporting May are supporting an atrociously bad deal with no merits and to deliver which the Tories have abdicated their entire domestic policy agenda. It’s shameful.

    It may be a bad deal, but it does have merits. To take the most obvious one for Brexiters, it ensures Brexit actually happens. That is still probable even without it, but not as certain is it was.
    With immigration undecided, trade unresolved, the common rule book over which we have no say foisted on us, NI left in limbo, the transition period length unresolved, how is that Brexit ?
    It's Britain leaving the European Union. Which was the only thing on the referendum ballot paper and the only thing that there is an actual mandate for.

    The Withdrawal Agreement was always intended to be phase I of the disengagement, that's what "transition period" means. You can't disentangle forty years of economic integration overnight. Well you can, but your economy will crash and burn if you do.
    Is there any way to get from phase 1 to phase 2?
    I can imagine the EU can just tell us to get stuffed if we try to negotiate anything else.
    They don't want the backstop (if it comes into effect) to be indefinite because it would breach their Four Freedoms. That is why they will want to negotiate an FTA with us.
    @Sean_F are you back to posting under Sean_Fear now, or is this an impostor?!
    It's me. I just can't sign into Hotmail right now.
    IMPOSTER I DON'T BELIEVE YOU
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
  • Mortimer said:

    Could she bring Fallon back as BrexSec?

    And my old BBC colleague Damian Green is worthy of a return
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Sean_Fear said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sean_Fear said:

    Xenon said:

    rpjs said:

    kle4 said:

    The Tories seem intent on gifting Corbyn the next election. Those sending in no confidence letters are a completely disorganised rabble with no idea what they want instead. Those supporting May are supporting an atrociously bad deal with no merits and to deliver which the Tories have abdicated their entire domestic policy agenda. It’s shameful.

    It may be a bad deal, but it does have merits. To take the most obvious one for Brexiters, it ensures Brexit actually happens. That is still probable even without it, but not as certain is it was.
    With immigration undecided, trade unresolved, the common rule book over which we have no say foisted on us, NI left in limbo, the transition period length unresolved, how is that Brexit ?
    It's Britain leaving the European Union. Which was the only thing on the referendum ballot paper and the only thing that there is an actual mandate for.

    The Withdrawal Agreement was always intended to be phase I of the disengagement, that's what "transition period" means. You can't disentangle forty years of economic integration overnight. Well you can, but your economy will crash and burn if you do.
    Is there any way to get from phase 1 to phase 2?
    I can imagine the EU can just tell us to get stuffed if we try to negotiate anything else.
    They don't want the backstop (if it comes into effect) to be indefinite because it would breach their Four Freedoms. That is why they will want to negotiate an FTA with us.
    @Sean_F are you back to posting under Sean_Fear now, or is this an impostor?!
    It's me. I just can't sign into Hotmail right now.
    I never saw the appeal of signing in to Hotmail.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    Sean_Fear said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sean_Fear said:

    Xenon said:

    rpjs said:

    kle4 said:

    The Tories seem intent on gifting Corbyn the next election. Those sending in no confidence letters are a completely disorganised rabble with no idea what they want instead. Those supporting May are supporting an atrociously bad deal with no merits and to deliver which the Tories have abdicated their entire domestic policy agenda. It’s shameful.

    It may be a bad deal, but it does have merits. To take the most obvious one for Brexiters, it ensures Brexit actually happens. That is still probable even without it, but not as certain is it was.
    With immigration undecided, trade unresolved, the common rule book over which we have no say foisted on us, NI left in limbo, the transition period length unresolved, how is that Brexit ?
    It's Britain leaving the European Union. Which was the only thing on the referendum ballot paper and the only thing that there is an actual mandate for.

    The Withdrawal Agreement was always intended to be phase I of the disengagement, that's what "transition period" means. You can't disentangle forty years of economic integration overnight. Well you can, but your economy will crash and burn if you do.
    Is there any way to get from phase 1 to phase 2?
    I can imagine the EU can just tell us to get stuffed if we try to negotiate anything else.
    They don't want the backstop (if it comes into effect) to be indefinite because it would breach their Four Freedoms. That is why they will want to negotiate an FTA with us.
    @Sean_F are you back to posting under Sean_Fear now, or is this an impostor?!
    It's me. I just can't sign into Hotmail right now.
    IMPOSTER I DON'T BELIEVE YOU
    It is exactly what an imposter would say... get him!
  • Mortimer said:

    Could she bring Fallon back as BrexSec?

    Unlikely given for what he had to resign for.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Fill your boots Amber. You'll be out on your ear whenever the next election is held.
    Interesting seat, that. Between 2015 and 2017 all the kippers moved to Labour, contrary to the popular assumption.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    48th!!!

    We are the Whips and we know where you live. Kind regards.
    Maybe I like whips! ;)
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,084
    Anorak said:

    Cicero said:

    tlg86 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    I think it’s getting to the point that May should tell the ERG that if they can’t get the votes by the end of next week for a VONC, and they continue to oppose the government on Brexit, the whip will be withdrawn. If that means a general election that gives Corbyn a majority, thanks to a Tory split, so be it. The ERG, and everyone associated with it, will be finished.

    These people are a cancer in the Conservative Party. They must concede or be cut out.

    And that would be the death of the Conservative Party - though that's likely to happen anyway.
    You know, I really don't think it will. On the other hand, even if they scrape the numbers for a VNOC they will lose and Gervase Brook-Hamster is revealed as weak as well as stupid. If they don't get the numbers by Tuesday, then its all over for the nutters and the Crash-out.

    Meanwhile Cruella de Leadsom and Liam "Iran" Fox, may have the capacity to cause a lot of trouble from inside the tent, while professing loyalty...but they hold very few cards against the PM, who has never trusted them anyway. I also think that the bulk of the Tory Party will get a lot closer to nurse, for fear of something worse. I think I'm backing the BDW to stay now. Still 50/50 on a second vote, but think that May is tantalisingly close to getting her deal... Its a crappy deal, but it will be accepted by the voters because it wont lead to total f**king chaos, and will make T May look like the saviour of the day (albeit the saviour against her own nutters).

    The deal even gives the Remain side the chimeric hope of re-entry "one day"...
    Suspect the 'realities' of the deal will be that people's lives will continue as normal, and all this talk about vassalage will evaporate like the morning mist. The government will make a big show about restricting unskilled immigration, and the ongoing and increasingly-pathetic screams of the remaining hard brexiteers will be ignored by all and sundry.

    If we get the deal, of course.
    Yes, the battle is now deal versus second vote and therefore remain...
  • AndyJS said:

    "UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN says

    Poverty envoy says callous policies driven by political desire for social re-engineering"

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/16/uk-austerity-has-inflicted-great-misery-on-citizens-un-says

    Only an idiot would compare caps on child benefit with China's former policy of forcible abortion.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,910
    Sean_Fear said:


    What a horrible choice. Putting the certainty of being roasted alive, but swiftly, against the risk of being slowly cooked inside a bag.

    Paradise is or was the size of Haverhill or Melton Mowbray so not insignificant and it has been destroyed - the drone coverage shows appalling and complete devastation. It was also inhabited by many elderly people for whom time to and means of escape were often limited.

    The notion of hundreds having perished is awful - I hope those "missing" are simply out of contact with relatives and friends and have found shelter elsewhere.

    I love California - it's a beautiful place and the people are very friendly. I'm a particular fan of Palm Springs and hope to spend part of a few winters there in the future.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    edited November 2018

    Sean_Fear said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sean_Fear said:

    Xenon said:

    rpjs said:

    kle4 said:

    The Tories seem intent on gifting Corbyn the next election. Those sending in no confidence letters are a completely disorganised rabble with no idea what they want instead. Those supporting May are supporting an atrociously bad deal with no merits and to deliver which the Tories have abdicated their entire domestic policy agenda. It’s shameful.

    It may be a bad deal, but it does have merits. To take the most obvious one for Brexiters, it ensures Brexit actually happens. That is still probable even without it, but not as certain is it was.
    With immigration undecided, trade unresolved, the common rule book over which we have no say foisted on us, NI left in limbo, the transition period length unresolved, how is that Brexit ?
    It's Britain leaving the European Union. Which was the only thing on the referendum ballot paper and the only thing that there is an actual mandate for.

    The Withdrawal Agreement was always intended to be phase I of the disengagement, that's what "transition period" means. You can't disentangle forty years of economic integration overnight. Well you can, but your economy will crash and burn if you do.
    Is there any way to get from phase 1 to phase 2?
    I can imagine the EU can just tell us to get stuffed if we try to negotiate anything else.
    They don't want the backstop (if it comes into effect) to be indefinite because it would breach their Four Freedoms. That is why they will want to negotiate an FTA with us.
    @Sean_F are you back to posting under Sean_Fear now, or is this an impostor?!
    It's me. I just can't sign into Hotmail right now.
    IMPOSTER I DON'T BELIEVE YOU
    Only Thing We Have to say it's Fear, is Fear Himself.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Pulpstar said:

    twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1063460316674252800

    Great appointment
    Excellent!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    A fifth of the population, amounting to 14m people, are living in poverty

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46236642

    Total horseshit. If 25% of the population were living in real poverty there would be widespread riots on a daily basis.

    They keep using this relative poverty term, despite even those who came up with the metric rejecting how it is now used.

    Half of all workers earn below the median wage. This is unacceptable. There should be rioting and strikes until this ridiculous unfairness is remedied.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    If I was May, no more balance. Just put in Dealers or Remainers into the Cabinet.
    +1
    I agree the time for balance is over.
  • Mortimer said:

    Could she bring Fallon back as BrexSec?

    And my old BBC colleague Damian Green is worthy of a return
    I would have thought Mr knee toucher would be more likely than Damian Blue Movies.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676

    Mortimer said:

    Could she bring Fallon back as BrexSec?

    And my old BBC colleague Damian Green is worthy of a return
    Lord Hague for Brexit Sec.
  • rcs1000 said:

    A fifth of the population, amounting to 14m people, are living in poverty

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46236642

    Total horseshit. If 25% of the population were living in real poverty there would be widespread riots on a daily basis.

    They keep using this relative poverty term, despite even those who came up with the metric rejecting how it is now used.

    Half of all workers earn below the median wage. This is unacceptable. There should be rioting and strikes until this ridiculous unfairness is remedied.
    Math...its hard...
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Mortimer said:

    Could she bring Fallon back as BrexSec?

    And my old BBC colleague Damian Green is worthy of a return
    Meanwhile, Rory Stewart is standing outside of the Downing Street gates, looking forlorn, cold, and lost. A single tear rolls down his cheek.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.

    *) They block the current deal in parliament.
    *) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
    *) They pass this to the EU.
    *) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
    *) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.

    I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.

    Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.

    They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
    And so, instead of the EU capitulating, we should?

    (Snip)
    No. They should be honest. Instead of going through the charade of rewriting it, say: "we should and will crash out."

    And on their heads be it.
    Forget the UK. Look at what Brussels has got.

    At the moment, they are looking at 2 years of red-line posturing resulting in a package that a mortally wounded PM cannot pass through the House. A crash-out Brexit is all they have to show for their "Non!".

    Fucking A1 job, boys.

    Luckily the EU economies are looking so strong they can take a loss of GDP in their stride.

    Oh.

    And a UK that is going to HAVE to come after them with a package of investment breaks and ultra-low corporate taxes that will make their eyes bleed.

    Yep. A1 job. Prats.

    Of course the EU will be hurt by us exiting in a No Deal scenario. But we'll be worse hit. In all likelihood much worse hit.
  • Pulpstar said:

    One point on the coup - don't forget Brady will give May 48 hours notice before he triggers the VONC. I assume that doesn't include weekends, we're potentially on a bit of a delayed schedule here. Whether Steve Baker himself realises this, I'm not sure...

    Oh. I didn't know that. I thought he was obligated to organise a vote on the next day that Parliament was sitting.
    The 1922 Committee rules don't say anything about Brady having to give notice to May, but nor do they say anything that would prevent him from doing so. As for the date of the vote, the rules say that Brady must consult May then hold the vote "as soon as possible in the circumstances prevailing".
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    "He highlighted predictions that child poverty could rise by 7% between 2015 and 2022, possibly up to a rate of 40%."

    That will be the IFS, who have repeatedly predicted massive child poverty increases as a result of welfare reform, right back from the early 2010s. Child poverty has four measures, at worst it has stayed the same on one measure, but on the other measures it has dropped.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    If I was May, no more balance. Just put in Dealers or Remainers into the Cabinet.
    +1
    I agree the time for balance is over.
    Yeah she's already sold Brexiteers (that's like 70% of her members and voters but we won't worry about that) down the river...

    Why bother keeping up the pretense now?
  • llefllef Posts: 301
    (Northern Irish) FARMERS AND BUSINESSES TELL DUP TO SUPPORT DRAFT BREXIT DEAL

    https://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/alliance-news/detail/1542382993157357000.html

    guess it wont make much difference to the absolutist DUP though

  • Anorak said:

    Mortimer said:

    Could she bring Fallon back as BrexSec?

    And my old BBC colleague Damian Green is worthy of a return
    Meanwhile, Rory Stewart is standing outside of the Downing Street gates, looking forlorn, cold, and lost. A single tear rolls down his cheek.
    He is like the kid who is always picked last for street footy matches.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    rcs1000 said:

    Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.

    *) They block the current deal in parliament.
    *) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
    *) They pass this to the EU.
    *) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
    *) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.

    I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.

    Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.

    They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
    And so, instead of the EU capitulating, we should?

    (Snip)
    No. They should be honest. Instead of going through the charade of rewriting it, say: "we should and will crash out."

    And on their heads be it.
    Forget the UK. Look at what Brussels has got.

    At the moment, they are looking at 2 years of red-line posturing resulting in a package that a mortally wounded PM cannot pass through the House. A crash-out Brexit is all they have to show for their "Non!".

    Fucking A1 job, boys.

    Luckily the EU economies are looking so strong they can take a loss of GDP in their stride.

    Oh.

    And a UK that is going to HAVE to come after them with a package of investment breaks and ultra-low corporate taxes that will make their eyes bleed.

    Yep. A1 job. Prats.

    Of course the EU will be hurt by us exiting in a No Deal scenario. But we'll be worse hit. In all likelihood much worse hit.
    But we as a Nation have a reputation for enjoying self flagellation, This can only be in the National interest
  • Cox to Brexit might make room...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    Could she bring Fallon back as BrexSec?

    And my old BBC colleague Damian Green is worthy of a return
    Lord Hague for Brexit Sec.
    Lord Hauge was telling his colleagues they should prepare for "No Deal" so I think that's a tad unlikely... ;)
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,084

    Mortimer said:

    Could she bring Fallon back as BrexSec?

    And my old BBC colleague Damian Green is worthy of a return
    If Hague does the DExEU job, May will have rallied the troops, and the ERGers will be toast... I sense a Tory rally round in the offing, rather than any early defenestration.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    rcs1000 said:

    A fifth of the population, amounting to 14m people, are living in poverty

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46236642

    Total horseshit. If 25% of the population were living in real poverty there would be widespread riots on a daily basis.

    They keep using this relative poverty term, despite even those who came up with the metric rejecting how it is now used.

    Half of all workers earn below the median wage. This is unacceptable. There should be rioting and strikes until this ridiculous unfairness is remedied.
    Which is why the Comrade Corbyn will insist on equal pay for all*. Nobody will earn less than the median wage!

    * senior party members excepted.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,781
    rcs1000 said:

    A fifth of the population, amounting to 14m people, are living in poverty

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46236642

    Total horseshit. If 25% of the population were living in real poverty there would be widespread riots on a daily basis.

    They keep using this relative poverty term, despite even those who came up with the metric rejecting how it is now used.

    Half of all workers earn below the median wage. This is unacceptable. There should be rioting and strikes until this ridiculous unfairness is remedied.
    Worse still the modal wage is ZERO!

    Much like future Guardian readership numbers I guess.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177
    edited November 2018
    llef said:

    (Northern Irish) FARMERS AND BUSINESSES TELL DUP TO SUPPORT DRAFT BREXIT DEAL

    https://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/alliance-news/detail/1542382993157357000.html

    guess it wont make much difference to the absolutist DUP though

    Well they know their seats are always pretty much safe, so they can afford to never bend from what they perceive as their principles unless they well jolly well choose to themselves.
  • "Amber Rudd becomes sixth Home Secretary since March 2016"

    bit of a blunder there BBC
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    GIN1138 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    Could she bring Fallon back as BrexSec?

    And my old BBC colleague Damian Green is worthy of a return
    Lord Hague for Brexit Sec.
    Lord Hauge was telling his colleagues they should prepare for "No Deal" so I think that's a tad unlikely... ;)
    Twenty days to save the pound !
  • GIN1138 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    Could she bring Fallon back as BrexSec?

    And my old BBC colleague Damian Green is worthy of a return
    Lord Hague for Brexit Sec.
    Lord Hauge was telling his colleagues they should prepare for "No Deal" so I think that's a tad unlikely... ;)
    Hague would be an inspired choice. And would rally the MPs to the banner. ERGonauts would be dead.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Europe Elects
    @EuropeElects
    1h1 hour ago

    UK, Survation poll:

    EU membership ref

    Remain: 53% (+3)
    Leave: 47% (-3)

    Field work: 15/11/18
    Sample size: 828"
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    GIN1138 said:

    If I was May, no more balance. Just put in Dealers or Remainers into the Cabinet.
    +1
    I agree the time for balance is over.
    Yeah she's already sold Brexiteers (that's like 70% of her members and voters but we won't worry about that) down the river...

    Why bother keeping up the pretense now?
    I voted Tory in 2017 and I don't feel she has sold me out or any of the other Tory voters I know.

    A negotiation means a compromise.

    I would rather Remain and if MPs with your views don't stop messing about I hope you get something you really don't like which is Remain or another referendum. If it means people like you leave the Tory party I will be glad as I cannot understand this obsession with Europe and wanting no deal otherwise known as economic suicide!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177
    Anorak said:

    rcs1000 said:

    A fifth of the population, amounting to 14m people, are living in poverty

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46236642

    Total horseshit. If 25% of the population were living in real poverty there would be widespread riots on a daily basis.

    They keep using this relative poverty term, despite even those who came up with the metric rejecting how it is now used.

    Half of all workers earn below the median wage. This is unacceptable. There should be rioting and strikes until this ridiculous unfairness is remedied.
    Which is why the Comrade Corbyn will insist on equal pay for all*. Nobody will earn less than the median wage!

    * senior party members excepted.
    That won't be a salary, they'll get some compensatory reward for good service like a grace and favour home, just that they get to keep.

    I kid, I kid, if there is one thing we can be sure of is Corbyn will be personally frugal as ever.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    GIN1138 said:

    If I was May, no more balance. Just put in Dealers or Remainers into the Cabinet.
    +1
    I agree the time for balance is over.
    Yeah she's already sold Brexiteers (that's like 70% of her members and voters but we won't worry about that) down the river...

    Why bother keeping up the pretense now?
    I voted Tory in 2017 and I don't feel she has sold me out or any of the other Tory voters I know.

    A negotiation means a compromise.

    I would rather Remain and if MPs with your views don't stop messing about I hope you get something you really don't like which is Remain or another referendum. If it means people like you leave the Tory party I will be glad as I cannot understand this obsession with Europe and wanting no deal otherwise known as economic suicide!
    +++
  • kle4 said:

    llef said:

    (Northern Irish) FARMERS AND BUSINESSES TELL DUP TO SUPPORT DRAFT BREXIT DEAL

    https://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/alliance-news/detail/1542382993157357000.html

    guess it wont make much difference to the absolutist DUP though

    Well they know their seats are always pretty much safe, so they can afford to never bend from what they perceive as their principles unless they well jolly well choose to themselves.
    No Deal would hurt quite a few of their rural voters.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    rcs1000 said:

    Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.

    *) They block the current deal in parliament.
    *) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
    *) They pass this to the EU.
    *) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
    *) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.

    I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.

    Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.

    They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
    And so, instead of the EU capitulating, we should?

    (Snip)
    No. They should be honest. Instead of going through the charade of rewriting it, say: "we should and will crash out."

    And on their heads be it.
    Forget the UK. Look at what Brussels has got.

    At the moment, they are looking at 2 years of red-line posturing resulting in a package that a mortally wounded PM cannot pass through the House. A crash-out Brexit is all they have to show for their "Non!".

    Fucking A1 job, boys.

    Luckily the EU economies are looking so strong they can take a loss of GDP in their stride.

    Oh.

    And a UK that is going to HAVE to come after them with a package of investment breaks and ultra-low corporate taxes that will make their eyes bleed.

    Yep. A1 job. Prats.

    Of course the EU will be hurt by us exiting in a No Deal scenario. But we'll be worse hit. In all likelihood much worse hit.
    It still represents an epic failure.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177
    edited November 2018

    "Amber Rudd becomes sixth Home Secretary since March 2016"

    bit of a blunder there BBC

    DWP really is a horrible ministry to take over, isn't it? Other than Duncan Smith has anyone even lasted more than a year or two?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    kle4 said:

    llef said:

    (Northern Irish) FARMERS AND BUSINESSES TELL DUP TO SUPPORT DRAFT BREXIT DEAL

    https://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/alliance-news/detail/1542382993157357000.html

    guess it wont make much difference to the absolutist DUP though

    Well they know their seats are always pretty much safe, so they can afford to never bend from what they perceive as their principles unless they well jolly well choose to themselves.
    Pengelly in Belfast South looks vulnerable to me.
  • GIN1138 said:

    If I was May, no more balance. Just put in Dealers or Remainers into the Cabinet.
    +1
    I agree the time for balance is over.
    Yeah she's already sold Brexiteers (that's like 70% of her members and voters but we won't worry about that) down the river...

    Why bother keeping up the pretense now?
    I voted Tory in 2017 and I don't feel she has sold me out or any of the other Tory voters I know.

    A negotiation means a compromise.

    I would rather Remain and if MPs with your views don't stop messing about I hope you get something you really don't like which is Remain or another referendum. If it means people like you leave the Tory party I will be glad as I cannot understand this obsession with Europe and wanting no deal otherwise known as economic suicide!
    I'm on the other side of the EU argument to you. I dislike Theresa May's nanny statism and think she has a political tin ear, but I don't consider that she's sold me out on the EU.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Our absurd voting system with so many MPs effectively sheltered from electoral pressure in their safe seats is a significant contributory factor to the current fiasco.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited November 2018



    I would rather Remain and if MPs with your views don't stop messing about I hope you get something you really don't like which is Remain or another referendum. If it means people like you leave the Tory party I will be glad as I cannot understand this obsession with Europe and wanting no deal otherwise known as economic suicide!

    I've given up. On Brexit. And on the Tories.

    I'm not in the Tory Party (thank god) and I'm waiting to vote for Jezza at the next available opportunity.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Fill your boots Amber. You'll be out on your ear whenever the next election is held.
    You are like a stuck record
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177

    rcs1000 said:

    Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.

    *) They block the current deal in parliament.
    *) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
    *) They pass this to the EU.
    *) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
    *) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.

    I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.

    Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.

    They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
    And so, instead of the EU capitulating, we should?

    (Snip)
    No. They should be honest. Instead of going through the charade of rewriting it, say: "we should and will crash out."

    And on their heads be it.
    Forget the UK. Look at what Brussels has got.

    At the moment, they are looking at 2 years of red-line posturing resulting in a package that a mortally wounded PM cannot pass through the House. A crash-out Brexit is all they have to show for their "Non!".

    Fucking A1 job, boys.

    Luckily the EU economies are looking so strong they can take a loss of GDP in their stride.

    Oh.

    And a UK that is going to HAVE to come after them with a package of investment breaks and ultra-low corporate taxes that will make their eyes bleed.

    Yep. A1 job. Prats.

    Of course the EU will be hurt by us exiting in a No Deal scenario. But we'll be worse hit. In all likelihood much worse hit.
    It still represents an epic failure.
    They have drastically underestimated the chances of a crash out. Probably because they listened to the sort of people on this side who think conceding something to us in negotiation would be doing us a favour.
  • If I was May, no more balance. Just put in Dealers or Remainers into the Cabinet.
    Agreed
This discussion has been closed.