politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Mad Tory Friday part 2…..
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May has now a proven track record of whipping out the rug from under the work her Brexit Minister is doing. She did it with Davis, she did it with Raab.kle4 said:
And he didn't notice until 1.5 years had elapsed?David_Evershed said:
Davis did it two years ago but was undermined and ignored by May.RobD said:
Good lord. What on earth do they hope to achieve in 1 week? And why didn't they do this say two years ago?SouthamObserver said:Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21
She must be a bloody nightmare boss.0 -
Nonsense. Radical surgery is needed to save it.tlg86 said:
And that would be the death of the Conservative Party - though that's likely to happen anyway.RoyalBlue said:I think it’s getting to the point that May should tell the ERG that if they can’t get the votes by the end of next week for a VONC, and they continue to oppose the government on Brexit, the whip will be withdrawn. If that means a general election that gives Corbyn a majority, thanks to a Tory split, so be it. The ERG, and everyone associated with it, will be finished.
These people are a cancer in the Conservative Party. They must concede or be cut out.
If the deal is rejected, and May brings forward a second referendum bill, they will oppose it. I suspect they would then support a vote of no confidence in the government, in an attempt to crash us out on 29th March. In that case, they will have ejected themselves.0 -
The Tories seem intent on gifting Corbyn the next election. Those sending in no confidence letters are a completely disorganised rabble with no idea what they want instead. Those supporting May are supporting an atrociously bad deal with no merits and to deliver which the Tories have abdicated their entire domestic policy agenda. It’s shameful.0
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Or win.RoyalBlue said:I think it’s getting to the point that May should tell the ERG that if they can’t get the votes by the end of next week for a VONC, and they continue to oppose the government on Brexit, the whip will be withdrawn. If that means a general election that gives Corbyn a majority, thanks to a Tory split, so be it. The ERG, and everyone associated with it, will be finished.
These people are a cancer in the Conservative Party. They must concede or be cut out.0 -
Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.SouthamObserver said:
*) They block the current deal in parliament.
*) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
*) They pass this to the EU.
*) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
*) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.
I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.
Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.
They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.0 -
I still think she has a good chance.DavidL said:
I really hope that the opportunity is taken to drive these loons out of the party. But first things first. How does Mrs May get her deal? The current threat of talking at people until they agree is very potent but can she drive enough people to tears to carry the House?Big_G_NorthWales said:
They horrify me. They and momentum are one and the same. Extreme to the core and hopefully will be filleted when TM wins her deal or we remainSouthamObserver said:You know, this is actually a huge opportunity for the Conservative party to see off the moon-howling Buccaneers. I know many good Tories and I cannot believe that any of these ERG cretins, charlatans, liars and simpletons speak for them. Get these loons out, get them gone. Learn from labour before it is too late. This could well be your last chance.
As long as she gets to the EU Council meeting next Sunday and the EU moderate the political statement on the future trade deal as they have said they are open to today (not the WDA by the way) the fanfare across the EU will create panic in ERG and labour
The narrative will change dramatically and TM promoting my deal, no deal or no brexit will focus minds0 -
It doesn't really matter what ordinary people think because they won't generally be the people MPs engage with when they are back in their constituencies. MPs spend much more time engaging with extraordinary people, namely members of their party, than the average elector. And, in the case of Tory MPs, they will be engaging with people who are committed Brexiteers to a man (or woman, but they are mostly men). A weekend amongst their constituents is not likely to encourage many Tory MPs to support May's sellout deal.rcs1000 said:
"Most ordinary people oppose May's deal"Xenon said:
Moon-howling buccaneeers?SouthamObserver said:You know, this is actually a huge opportunity for the Conservative party to see off the moon-howling Buccaneers. I know many good Tories and I cannot believe that any of these ERG cretins, charlatans, liars and simpletons speak for them. Get these loons out, get them gone. Learn from labour before it is too late. This could well be your last chance.
Most ordinary people oppose May's deal and the ERG are representing their views. I realise most people on here want a political class stitch-up to get out of delivering on Brexit, but not everyone shares that view.
Two questions:
1. Is there any evidence for your claim?
2. Should ordinary people get more votes than extraordinary people?
2a. And how do we distinguish between the ordinary and the extraordinary?0 -
Taking the pulse of the comatose-at-best members of local associations would be one way to reduce Conservative membership figures still further, certainly.Lennon said:Thinking about the ERG's 'maybe next week' - presumably the thinking (assuming there is some) is that MP's will go back to Constituencies over the weekend and take the pulse of the Tory faithful, the local Branch Chairman etc
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It may be a bad deal, but it does have merits. To take the most obvious one for Brexiters, it ensures Brexit actually happens. That is still probable even without it, but not as certain is it was.AmpfieldAndy said:The Tories seem intent on gifting Corbyn the next election. Those sending in no confidence letters are a completely disorganised rabble with no idea what they want instead. Those supporting May are supporting an atrociously bad deal with no merits and to deliver which the Tories have abdicated their entire domestic policy agenda. It’s shameful.
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Of Brexit-eers on this board, I would estimate that about 60-70% support the deal.Lennon said:Thinking about the ERG's 'maybe next week' - presumably the thinking (assuming there is some) is that MP's will go back to Constituencies over the weekend and take the pulse of the Tory faithful, the local Branch Chairman etc.
In which case - what are those people thinking? I imagine more pro-deal and anti-ERG taking the pulse on here but is that representative?
The issue, surely, is that it is those who are opposed who make the most noise.
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I think these last few days have made clear to me how much I dislike Steve Baker. What an oik!0
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It's the last bit that is the problem. The no brexit part is meant to coax reluctant Brexiteers, but it also pushes away continuity remainers who go 'that sounds great!'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I still think she has a good chance.DavidL said:
I really hope that the opportunity is taken to drive these loons out of the party. But first things first. How does Mrs May get her deal? The current threat of talking at people until they agree is very potent but can she drive enough people to tears to carry the House?Big_G_NorthWales said:
They horrify me. They and momentum are one and the same. Extreme to the core and hopefully will be filleted when TM wins her deal or we remainSouthamObserver said:You know, this is actually a huge opportunity for the Conservative party to see off the moon-howling Buccaneers. I know many good Tories and I cannot believe that any of these ERG cretins, charlatans, liars and simpletons speak for them. Get these loons out, get them gone. Learn from labour before it is too late. This could well be your last chance.
As long as she gets to the EU Council meeting next Sunday and the EU moderate the political statement on the future trade deal as they have said they are open to today (not the WDA by the way) the fanfare across the EU will create panic in ERG and labour
The narrative will change dramatically and TM promoting my deal, no deal or no brexit will focus minds0 -
Ken Clarke said she is a bloody difficult woman.MarqueeMark said:
May has now a proven track record of whipping out the rug from under the work her Brexit Minister is doing. She did it with Davis, she did it with Raab.kle4 said:
And he didn't notice until 1.5 years had elapsed?David_Evershed said:
Davis did it two years ago but was undermined and ignored by May.RobD said:
Good lord. What on earth do they hope to achieve in 1 week? And why didn't they do this say two years ago?SouthamObserver said:Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21
She must be a bloody nightmare boss.0 -
Asking the public questions which they are unqualified to answer and then treating those answers seriously is why we are here.Xenon said:
Look at the polls about the deal floating about yesterday.rcs1000 said:
"Most ordinary people oppose May's deal"Xenon said:
Moon-howling buccaneeers?SouthamObserver said:You know, this is actually a huge opportunity for the Conservative party to see off the moon-howling Buccaneers. I know many good Tories and I cannot believe that any of these ERG cretins, charlatans, liars and simpletons speak for them. Get these loons out, get them gone. Learn from labour before it is too late. This could well be your last chance.
Most ordinary people oppose May's deal and the ERG are representing their views. I realise most people on here want a political class stitch-up to get out of delivering on Brexit, but not everyone shares that view.
Two questions:
1. Is there any evidence for your claim?
2. Should ordinary people get more votes than extraordinary people?
2a. And how do we distinguish between the ordinary and the extraordinary?0 -
To say nothing about how a rewritten deal will be at all acceptable to May, who will veto it, orthe Tory Remainers whose support they will need for it.JosiasJessop said:
Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.SouthamObserver said:
*) They block the current deal in parliament.
*) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
*) They pass this to the EU.
*) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
*) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.
I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.
Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.
They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
If they want a different deal they should have acted sooner.
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And so, instead of the EU capitulating, we should?JosiasJessop said:
Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.SouthamObserver said:
*) They block the current deal in parliament.
*) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
*) They pass this to the EU.
*) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
*) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.
I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.
Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.
They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
There is more than one kind of 'no deal' Brexit but those trying to panic everyone about food and medicine shortages conveniently ignore that.0 -
Hello Robert, do you think we will be out of the single market, CAP, CFP, FoM, etc. by the end of 2020?rcs1000 said:
Of Brexit-eers on this board, I would estimate that about 60-70% support the deal.Lennon said:Thinking about the ERG's 'maybe next week' - presumably the thinking (assuming there is some) is that MP's will go back to Constituencies over the weekend and take the pulse of the Tory faithful, the local Branch Chairman etc.
In which case - what are those people thinking? I imagine more pro-deal and anti-ERG taking the pulse on here but is that representative?
The issue, surely, is that it is those who are opposed who make the most noise.0 -
She may have done it with Raab, but there was no whipping out from under Davis' work. No work had been done.MarqueeMark said:
May has now a proven track record of whipping out the rug from under the work her Brexit Minister is doing. She did it with Davis, she did it with Raab.kle4 said:
And he didn't notice until 1.5 years had elapsed?David_Evershed said:
Davis did it two years ago but was undermined and ignored by May.RobD said:
Good lord. What on earth do they hope to achieve in 1 week? And why didn't they do this say two years ago?SouthamObserver said:Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21
She must be a bloody nightmare boss.0 -
As I'm sure HYUFD would be quick to mention were he here, the Conservatives are (or were) 2-5 points ahead in the most recent polls.RoyalBlue said:
We won’t win a majority today. I care about the long-term, and association with no deal will be utterly terminal for my party.
Your last sentence doesn’t make sense. There is no need for a fight; the division is already here. They have 40MPs at best. They need to be flushed out and destroyed at an election.
Labour will be in power. So be it.
When Chequers was put forward, to much derision, the Conservatives did lose support and Labour regained the lead. My slight sense of public opinion currently is while there may be some disappointment and concern at aspects of the Deal, the vision of a post-No Deal wasteland conjured up by Carney and others has so terrified many people they will agree to almost anything.
In addition, there's the vast bulk of the impatient who "just want to get on with it" even though they don't much care what "it" is. I suspect many of them haven't twigged there's 20 months or so of Transition before we really leave. .0 -
I would be more inclined to believe, on a gut feel, that waverers would back the deal after taking the pulse of their associations, if more of the most senior people in government who supposedly still back the deal beingrcs1000 said:
Of Brexit-eers on this board, I would estimate that about 60-70% support the deal.Lennon said:Thinking about the ERG's 'maybe next week' - presumably the thinking (assuming there is some) is that MP's will go back to Constituencies over the weekend and take the pulse of the Tory faithful, the local Branch Chairman etc.
In which case - what are those people thinking? I imagine more pro-deal and anti-ERG taking the pulse on here but is that representative?
The issue, surely, is that it is those who are opposed who make the most noise.
a) silent or absent
b) openly trying to renegotiate, thus undermining May's 'this deal or no deal' argument
Given that lack of effort to defend it at the most senior level, apart from May, and those technically on board but who are briefing the press that they are trying to change it, ie they are not really on board, I have little confidence someone teetering on the edge would for one hear any noise in support of the deal, and for two would be convinced by it.0 -
It is interesting that the Tories appear to have sneaked ahead in the polls, despite Brexit ;-) ....stodge said:
As I'm sure HYUFD would be quick to mention were he here, the Conservatives are (or were) 2-5 points ahead in the most recent polls.RoyalBlue said:
We won’t win a majority today. I care about the long-term, and association with no deal will be utterly terminal for my party.
Your last sentence doesn’t make sense. There is no need for a fight; the division is already here. They have 40MPs at best. They need to be flushed out and destroyed at an election.
Labour will be in power. So be it.
When Chequers was put forward, to much derision, the Conservatives did lose support and Labour regained the lead. My slight sense of public opinion currently is while there may be some disappointment and concern at aspects of the Deal, the vision of a post-No Deal wasteland conjured up by Carney and others has so terrified many people they will agree to almost anything.
In addition, there's the vast bulk of the impatient who "just want to get on with it" even though they don't much care what "it" is. I suspect many of them haven't twigged there's 20 months or so of Transition before we really leave. .0 -
The reality is that she didn't want them to do their jobs. They were a figleaf to cover the activities of her cadre of Remain supporting civil servants. To lose two Brexit secretaries for the same reason is quite extraordinary.MarqueeMark said:
May has now a proven track record of whipping out the rug from under the work her Brexit Minister is doing. She did it with Davis, she did it with Raab.kle4 said:
And he didn't notice until 1.5 years had elapsed?David_Evershed said:
Davis did it two years ago but was undermined and ignored by May.RobD said:
Good lord. What on earth do they hope to achieve in 1 week? And why didn't they do this say two years ago?SouthamObserver said:Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21
She must be a bloody nightmare boss.
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Time to redefine the erg as a measure of intelligence or credibility ?
An erg is approximately the amount of work done (or energy consumed) by one common house fly performing one "push up"...0 -
No. They should be honest. Instead of going through the charade of rewriting it, say: "we should and will crash out."bardigiani said:
And so, instead of the EU capitulating, we should?JosiasJessop said:
Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.SouthamObserver said:
*) They block the current deal in parliament.
*) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
*) They pass this to the EU.
*) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
*) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.
I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.
Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.
They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
(Snip)
And on their heads be it.0 -
Isn't their plan - and Corbyn's - to rewrite the political declaration rather than the withdrawal agreement? The EU would tolerate that; the backstop takes the sting out of anything said about future trade relationships.JosiasJessop said:
Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.SouthamObserver said:
*) They block the current deal in parliament.
*) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
*) They pass this to the EU.
*) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
*) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.
I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.
Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.
They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.0 -
With immigration undecided, trade unresolved, the common rule book over which we have no say foisted on us, NI left in limbo, the transition period length unresolved, how is that Brexit ?kle4 said:
It may be a bad deal, but it does have merits. To take the most obvious one for Brexiters, it ensures Brexit actually happens. That is still probable even without it, but not as certain is it was.AmpfieldAndy said:The Tories seem intent on gifting Corbyn the next election. Those sending in no confidence letters are a completely disorganised rabble with no idea what they want instead. Those supporting May are supporting an atrociously bad deal with no merits and to deliver which the Tories have abdicated their entire domestic policy agenda. It’s shameful.
We could have left the CAP and CFP simply by moving to the EEA or EFTA and we might still effectively end up in both by the time any trade deal is sorted out.0 -
As I said earlier. This is a failed coup as things stand. Why did Mogg go over the top if he wasn't sure.
Pathetic.0 -
Douglas Adam's 'The Meaning of Liff' ?Nigelb said:Time to redefine the erg as a measure of intelligence or credibility ?
An erg is approximately the amount of work done (or energy consumed) by one common house fly performing one "push up"...
My favorite was 'Blean' (A village I spent quite some time in)0 -
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You've left out the remainery types voting against, it isn't just the ERG and Corbyn. You may not think it realistic, but, staggeringly, the thinking appears to be 'somehow we will prevent no deal, and then it will all work out with a brand new deal or remain'.JosiasJessop said:
Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.SouthamObserver said:
*) They block the current deal in parliament.
*) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
*) They pass this to the EU.
*) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
*) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.
I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.
Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.
They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
The ERG get huge amounts of stick for have no or very unrealistic and risky plans. But that lot are no less unrealistic. Simply asserting 'no deal won't be allowed, I am sure of it, then one of the contradictory plans we have for remain or a better deal will happen' is not a plan a competent legislator should be backing. People assert things cannot happen all the time, then they do.
At least the ERG are clear, for the most part, that they accept the risk of voting this down, or don't believe there are negatives to no deal.0 -
Nigelb said:
Time to redefine the erg as a measure of intelligence or credibility ?
An erg is approximately the amount of work done (or energy consumed) by one common house fly performing one "push up"... 0 -
One point on the coup - don't forget Brady will give May 48 hours notice before he triggers the VONC. I assume that doesn't include weekends, we're potentially on a bit of a delayed schedule here. Whether Steve Baker himself realises this, I'm not sure...0
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Sad.rottenborough said:
As I said earlier. This is a failed coup as things stand. Why did Mogg go over the top if he wasn't sure.
Pathetic.0 -
I don't agree with him on Brexit or his methods wrt May. But Steve Baker is very eloquent and an unused asset in the Tory party.0
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Have to do some work today - too much refreshing PB earlier this week - but the Rees Mogg Comedy Squad are worth their weight in gold.
We'd all assumed they have the numbers to call a VONC but not win it, but having made a rush decision to go over the top yesterday, looks like they don't have a fraction of the strength or organisation we all credited them with.
Graham Brady must have struggled to keep a straight face with all the rumours of hitting the magic 48 a few weeks ago - clearly nowhere near. Hoping for more classic stand-up like Steve Baker a few minutes ago, just really really funny now. Bless!
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There is, of course, also the poisonous group of fungi: ergot.Omnium said:
Douglas Adam's 'The Meaning of Liff' ?Nigelb said:Time to redefine the erg as a measure of intelligence or credibility ?
An erg is approximately the amount of work done (or energy consumed) by one common house fly performing one "push up"...
My favorite was 'Blean' (A village I spent quite some time in)0 -
Oh, is this right? I’d assumed it was almost instant!Pulpstar said:One point on the coup - don't forget Brady will give May 48 hours notice before he triggers the VONC. I assume that doesn't include weekends, we're potentially on a bit of a delayed schedule here. Whether Steve Baker himself realises this, I'm not sure...
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I stick by my oik conclusion. I'm not sure where you get eloquent from and unless there's a need for some ships ballast in some arctic expedition I feel his qualities as an asset are questionable. (I just don't like him. To be fair he might be fine and lovely, just my view.)Jonathan said:I don't agree with him on Brexit or his methods wrt May. But Steve Baker is very eloquent and an unused asset in the Tory party.
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Even longer if he doesn't check his postbox due to a busy schedule of engagements outside of Westminster.Pulpstar said:One point on the coup - don't forget Brady will give May 48 hours notice before he triggers the VONC. I assume that doesn't include weekends, we're potentially on a bit of a delayed schedule here. Whether Steve Baker himself realises this, I'm not sure...
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Hubris- interesting that none of those who resigned yesterday have submitted letters and neither have David Davis or the Johnson brothers.RobD said:
Sad.rottenborough said:
As I said earlier. This is a failed coup as things stand. Why did Mogg go over the top if he wasn't sure.
Pathetic.0 -
Breakfast at the Conway household must be fun:
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/417093-conways-husband-id-rather-move-to-australia-than-vote-for-trump0 -
That we know of....AmpfieldAndy said:
Hubris- interesting that none of those who resigned yesterday have submitted letters and neither have David Davis or the Johnson brothers.RobD said:
Sad.rottenborough said:
As I said earlier. This is a failed coup as things stand. Why did Mogg go over the top if he wasn't sure.
Pathetic.0 -
Oh. I didn't know that. I thought he was obligated to organise a vote on the next day that Parliament was sitting.Pulpstar said:One point on the coup - don't forget Brady will give May 48 hours notice before he triggers the VONC. I assume that doesn't include weekends, we're potentially on a bit of a delayed schedule here. Whether Steve Baker himself realises this, I'm not sure...
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I was wondering why CCHQ put his post box in Vladivostok....FrancisUrquhart said:
Even longer if he doesn't check his postbox due to a busy schedule of engagements outside of Westminster.Pulpstar said:One point on the coup - don't forget Brady will give May 48 hours notice before he triggers the VONC. I assume that doesn't include weekends, we're potentially on a bit of a delayed schedule here. Whether Steve Baker himself realises this, I'm not sure...
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I've been busy and just popping in and out but from what I have read I would say that is quite a conservative estimate of the percentage of leavers who think May's deal is better than remaining or no deal at all.rcs1000 said:
Of Brexit-eers on this board, I would estimate that about 60-70% support the deal.Lennon said:Thinking about the ERG's 'maybe next week' - presumably the thinking (assuming there is some) is that MP's will go back to Constituencies over the weekend and take the pulse of the Tory faithful, the local Branch Chairman etc.
In which case - what are those people thinking? I imagine more pro-deal and anti-ERG taking the pulse on here but is that representative?
The issue, surely, is that it is those who are opposed who make the most noise.0 -
This Fox, Gove etc plan will be hilarious. They have had two years (or three decades for some of them) to come up with a plan for Brexit.bardigiani said:
The reality is that she didn't want them to do their jobs. They were a figleaf to cover the activities of her cadre of Remain supporting civil servants. To lose two Brexit secretaries for the same reason is quite extraordinary.MarqueeMark said:
May has now a proven track record of whipping out the rug from under the work her Brexit Minister is doing. She did it with Davis, she did it with Raab.kle4 said:
And he didn't notice until 1.5 years had elapsed?David_Evershed said:
Davis did it two years ago but was undermined and ignored by May.RobD said:
Good lord. What on earth do they hope to achieve in 1 week? And why didn't they do this say two years ago?SouthamObserver said:Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21
She must be a bloody nightmare boss.
They never do.
They can't.0 -
My the way I may have inadvertently mislead you on 'Blean' - I just did spend some time there. What Adams said wasNigelb said:
There is, of course, also the poisonous group of fungi: ergot.Omnium said:
Douglas Adam's 'The Meaning of Liff' ?Nigelb said:Time to redefine the erg as a measure of intelligence or credibility ?
An erg is approximately the amount of work done (or energy consumed) by one common house fly performing one "push up"...
My favorite was 'Blean' (A village I spent quite some time in)
"Scientific measure of luminosity : 1 glimmer = 100,000 bleans. Usherettes' torches are designed to produce between 2.5 and 4 bleans, enabling them to assist you in falling downstairs, treading on people or putting your hand into a Neapolitan tub when reaching for change."
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How about adding another plus after Canada? By Jove, I think I’ve cracked it!rottenborough said:
This Fox, Gove etc plan will be hilarious. They have had two years (or three decades for some of them) to come up with a plan for Brexit.bardigiani said:
The reality is that she didn't want them to do their jobs. They were a figleaf to cover the activities of her cadre of Remain supporting civil servants. To lose two Brexit secretaries for the same reason is quite extraordinary.MarqueeMark said:
May has now a proven track record of whipping out the rug from under the work her Brexit Minister is doing. She did it with Davis, she did it with Raab.kle4 said:
And he didn't notice until 1.5 years had elapsed?David_Evershed said:
Davis did it two years ago but was undermined and ignored by May.RobD said:
Good lord. What on earth do they hope to achieve in 1 week? And why didn't they do this say two years ago?SouthamObserver said:Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21
She must be a bloody nightmare boss.
They never do.
They can't.0 -
Still on 47.99 letters?0
-
They might just be correcting the grammar ?JosiasJessop said:
Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.SouthamObserver said:
*) They block the current deal in parliament.
*) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
*) They pass this to the EU.
*) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
*) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.
I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.
Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.
They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.0 -
In all of this has everyone seen the news today that over 600 are missing in the California's fires
Just dreadful0 -
Rotherham child sexual abuse: Six men jailed
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-462224210 -
https://twitter.com/JamesDuddridge/status/1063191070777978881OblitusSumMe said:
Oh. I didn't know that. I thought he was obligated to organise a vote on the next day that Parliament was sitting.Pulpstar said:One point on the coup - don't forget Brady will give May 48 hours notice before he triggers the VONC. I assume that doesn't include weekends, we're potentially on a bit of a delayed schedule here. Whether Steve Baker himself realises this, I'm not sure...
0 -
I'm holding out for super duper Canada.RobD said:
How about adding another plus after Canada? By Jove, I think I’ve cracked it!rottenborough said:
This Fox, Gove etc plan will be hilarious. They have had two years (or three decades for some of them) to come up with a plan for Brexit.bardigiani said:
The reality is that she didn't want them to do their jobs. They were a figleaf to cover the activities of her cadre of Remain supporting civil servants. To lose two Brexit secretaries for the same reason is quite extraordinary.MarqueeMark said:
May has now a proven track record of whipping out the rug from under the work her Brexit Minister is doing. She did it with Davis, she did it with Raab.kle4 said:
And he didn't notice until 1.5 years had elapsed?David_Evershed said:
Davis did it two years ago but was undermined and ignored by May.RobD said:
Good lord. What on earth do they hope to achieve in 1 week? And why didn't they do this say two years ago?SouthamObserver said:Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21
She must be a bloody nightmare boss.
They never do.
They can't.0 -
It shouldn't be beyond the wit of MPs to decide whether they wantkle4 said:
You've left out the remainery types voting against, it isn't just the ERG and Corbyn. You may not think it realistic, but, staggeringly, the thinking appears to be 'somehow we will prevent no deal, and then it will all work out with a brand new deal or remain'.JosiasJessop said:
Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.SouthamObserver said:
*) They block the current deal in parliament.
*) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
*) They pass this to the EU.
*) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
*) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.
I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.
Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.
They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
The ERG get huge amounts of stick for have no or very unrealistic and risky plans. But that lot are no less unrealistic. Simply asserting 'no deal won't be allowed, I am sure of it, then one of the contradictory plans we have for remain or a better deal will happen' is not a plan a competent legislator should be backing. People assert things cannot happen all the time, then they do.
At least the ERG are clear, for the most part, that they accept the risk of voting this down, or don't believe there are negatives to no deal.
a. No Deal - and I would assume that most wouldn't
b. May's deal - looking dodgy, but maybe
c. Remain - better than the other two, but might make us look a bit silly.
d. Put b. and c. to the people to give the outcome legitimacy.
We don't have to settle for a bad deal.0 -
A fifth of the population, amounting to 14m people, are living in poverty
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46236642
Total horseshit. If 25% of the population were living in real poverty there would be widespread riots on a daily basis.
They keep using this relative poverty term, despite even those who came up with the metric rejecting how it is now used.0 -
-
Could be right. Might well be on 80 by now. See everybody on Monday!Pulpstar said:
https://twitter.com/JamesDuddridge/status/1063191070777978881OblitusSumMe said:
Oh. I didn't know that. I thought he was obligated to organise a vote on the next day that Parliament was sitting.Pulpstar said:One point on the coup - don't forget Brady will give May 48 hours notice before he triggers the VONC. I assume that doesn't include weekends, we're potentially on a bit of a delayed schedule here. Whether Steve Baker himself realises this, I'm not sure...
0 -
Forget the UK. Look at what Brussels has got.JosiasJessop said:
No. They should be honest. Instead of going through the charade of rewriting it, say: "we should and will crash out."bardigiani said:
And so, instead of the EU capitulating, we should?JosiasJessop said:
Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.SouthamObserver said:
*) They block the current deal in parliament.
*) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
*) They pass this to the EU.
*) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
*) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.
I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.
Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.
They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
(Snip)
And on their heads be it.
At the moment, they are looking at 2 years of red-line posturing resulting in a package that a mortally wounded PM cannot pass through the House. A crash-out Brexit is all they have to show for their "Non!".
Fucking A1 job, boys.
Luckily the EU economies are looking so strong they can take a loss of GDP in their stride.
Oh.
And a UK that is going to HAVE to come after them with a package of investment breaks and ultra-low corporate taxes that will make their eyes bleed.
Yep. A1 job. Prats.
0 -
Hopefully some will be found safely. Did you see the satellite map showing how far the smoke has travelled? Abysmal air quality here in San Francisco over the last week.Big_G_NorthWales said:In all of this has everyone seen the news today that over 600 are missing in the California's fires
Just dreadful0 -
Yes the voters should be completely ignored and all decisions made in back rooms by the political class.matt said:
Asking the public questions which they are unqualified to answer and then treating those answers seriously is why we are here.Xenon said:
Look at the polls about the deal floating about yesterday.rcs1000 said:
"Most ordinary people oppose May's deal"Xenon said:
Moon-howling buccaneeers?SouthamObserver said:You know, this is actually a huge opportunity for the Conservative party to see off the moon-howling Buccaneers. I know many good Tories and I cannot believe that any of these ERG cretins, charlatans, liars and simpletons speak for them. Get these loons out, get them gone. Learn from labour before it is too late. This could well be your last chance.
Most ordinary people oppose May's deal and the ERG are representing their views. I realise most people on here want a political class stitch-up to get out of delivering on Brexit, but not everyone shares that view.
Two questions:
1. Is there any evidence for your claim?
2. Should ordinary people get more votes than extraordinary people?
2a. And how do we distinguish between the ordinary and the extraordinary?0 -
It seems beyond them at present.logical_song said:
It shouldn't be beyond the wit of MPs to decide whether they wantkle4 said:
You've left out the remainery types voting against, it isn't just the ERG and Corbyn. You may not think it realistic, but, staggeringly, the thinking appears to be 'somehow we will prevent no deal, and then it will all work out with a brand new deal or remain'.JosiasJessop said:
Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.SouthamObserver said:
*) They block the current deal in parliament.
*) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
*) They pass this to the EU.
*) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
*) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.
I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.
Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.
They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
The ERG get huge amounts of stick for have no or very unrealistic and risky plans. But that lot are no less unrealistic. Simply asserting 'no deal won't be allowed, I am sure of it, then one of the contradictory plans we have for remain or a better deal will happen' is not a plan a competent legislator should be backing. People assert things cannot happen all the time, then they do.
At least the ERG are clear, for the most part, that they accept the risk of voting this down, or don't believe there are negatives to no deal.
a. No Deal - and I would assume that most wouldn't
b. May's deal - looking dodgy, but maybe
c. Remain - better than the other two, but might make us look a bit silly.
d. Put b. and c. to the people to give the outcome legitimacy.
We don't have to settle for a bad deal.0 -
0
-
Yeh right...Pulpstar said:
https://twitter.com/JamesDuddridge/status/1063191070777978881OblitusSumMe said:
Oh. I didn't know that. I thought he was obligated to organise a vote on the next day that Parliament was sitting.Pulpstar said:One point on the coup - don't forget Brady will give May 48 hours notice before he triggers the VONC. I assume that doesn't include weekends, we're potentially on a bit of a delayed schedule here. Whether Steve Baker himself realises this, I'm not sure...
0 -
Approaching Trump level of turnover.FrancisUrquhart said:0 -
Days within months with an 'r' in them are also exempt, it's a reverse of the well-known when to eat oysters rule.FrancisUrquhart said:
Even longer if he doesn't check his postbox due to a busy schedule of engagements outside of Westminster.Pulpstar said:One point on the coup - don't forget Brady will give May 48 hours notice before he triggers the VONC. I assume that doesn't include weekends, we're potentially on a bit of a delayed schedule here. Whether Steve Baker himself realises this, I'm not sure...
0 -
Splendid.RobD said:
How about adding another plus after Canada? By Jove, I think I’ve cracked it!rottenborough said:
This Fox, Gove etc plan will be hilarious. They have had two years (or three decades for some of them) to come up with a plan for Brexit.bardigiani said:
The reality is that she didn't want them to do their jobs. They were a figleaf to cover the activities of her cadre of Remain supporting civil servants. To lose two Brexit secretaries for the same reason is quite extraordinary.MarqueeMark said:
May has now a proven track record of whipping out the rug from under the work her Brexit Minister is doing. She did it with Davis, she did it with Raab.kle4 said:
And he didn't notice until 1.5 years had elapsed?David_Evershed said:
Davis did it two years ago but was undermined and ignored by May.RobD said:
Good lord. What on earth do they hope to achieve in 1 week? And why didn't they do this say two years ago?SouthamObserver said:Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21
She must be a bloody nightmare boss.
They never do.
They can't.
Thank God we have it sorted.0 -
I think in Corbyn's case the only change he's interested in is having his signature at the bottom.JosiasJessop said:
Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.SouthamObserver said:
*) They block the current deal in parliament.
*) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
*) They pass this to the EU.
*) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
*) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.
I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.
Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.
They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
He might get them to change the font to match Pravda circa 1923 too.0 -
Have we surpassed Corbyn level turnover?logical_song said:
Approaching Trump level of turnover.FrancisUrquhart said:0 -
F1: anyone thinking of backing my Gasly each way (fifth the odds top three) suggestion at 26 might want to look again as he's lengthened to 34 for reasons that I can only assume relate to nobody backing him.
Imagine this year's Red Bull with half the power deficit and more reliability. He's got a decent shot next year of being top three. 34, longer with boost, is just too long, I think. Not putting down a lot (Bottas this year proved the folly of getting carried away) but worth backing, I think.0 -
When they start doing more than one job we'll know May has a problem.FrancisUrquhart said:
Have we surpassed Corbyn level turnover?logical_song said:
Approaching Trump level of turnover.FrancisUrquhart said:0 -
I loved Gweek, which was a car radio aeriel made from a metal coat-hanger. Sadly, that word is all that remains these days.Omnium said:
Douglas Adam's 'The Meaning of Liff' ?Nigelb said:Time to redefine the erg as a measure of intelligence or credibility ?
An erg is approximately the amount of work done (or energy consumed) by one common house fly performing one "push up"...
My favorite was 'Blean' (A village I spent quite some time in)0 -
I can only imagine the WhatsApp group messages among the Tory MPs, especially ERG, trying to find out who has sent letters etc.
I am guessing Graham Brady has probably quietly unsubscribed from all the groups and blocked everybody.0 -
Unless Boris or Leadweight win the leadership he is toxic for years to come.Jonathan said:I don't agree with him on Brexit or his methods wrt May. But Steve Baker is very eloquent and an unused asset in the Tory party.
0 -
Labour politician Barbara Castle famously said in 1958 that the type of absolute poverty the Labour Party had been set up to tackle had already been abolished by that time.FrancisUrquhart said:A fifth of the population, amounting to 14m people, are living in poverty
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46236642
Total horseshit. If 25% of the population were living in real poverty there would be widespread riots on a daily basis.
They keep using this relative poverty term, despite even those who came up with the metric rejecting how it is now used.0 -
0
-
The EU is clearly a fantastic place to be. How much do you pay to join? Oh no that's free. Leaving? Well then it'll be GBP39bn, and enforced servitude for your nation...MarqueeMark said:
Forget the UK. Look at what Brussels has got.JosiasJessop said:
No. They should be honest. Instead of going through the charade of rewriting it, say: "we should and will crash out."bardigiani said:
And so, instead of the EU capitulating, we should?JosiasJessop said:
Okay, let's try to follow this through logically.SouthamObserver said:
*) They block the current deal in parliament.
*) They re-write it to make it more Brexity.
*) They pass this to the EU.
*) The EU say 'Non!" - as they've said they would, and they are far less likely to agree a more Brexity deal.
*) Since the current deal has already been rejected in parliament, we crash out. Hard Brexit.
I cannot see any realistic way this chain will be broken: it will require the EU to massively capitulate, and there's no reason for them to do so.
Hence anyone arguing for a rewritten deal is really wanting a no-deal Brexit. And that probably includes Corbyn.
They should just be honest about it and stop all these pathetic 'we can get a better deal!' vainglorious lies.
(Snip)
And on their heads be it.
At the moment, they are looking at 2 years of red-line posturing resulting in a package that a mortally wounded PM cannot pass through the House. A crash-out Brexit is all they have to show for their "Non!".
Fucking A1 job, boys.
Luckily the EU economies are looking so strong they can take a loss of GDP in their stride.
Oh.
And a UK that is going to HAVE to come after them with a package of investment breaks and ultra-low corporate taxes that will make their eyes bleed.
Yep. A1 job. Prats.
That's Gym club and Direct Line Insurance territory.0 -
Like a big game of werewolf !FrancisUrquhart said:I can only imagine the WhatsApp group messages among the Tory MPs, especially ERG, trying to find out who has sent letters etc.
I am guessing Graham Brady has probably quietly unsubscribed from all the groups and blocked everybody.0 -
+2AndyJS said:
+1FrancisUrquhart said:A fifth of the population, amounting to 14m people, are living in poverty
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46236642
Total horseshit. If 25% of the population were living in real poverty there would be widespread riots on a daily basis.
They keep using this relative poverty term, despite even those who came up with the metric rejecting how it is now used.0 -
If only someone had told Tory MPs to stop banging on about Europe.RoyalBlue said:I think it’s getting to the point that May should tell the ERG that if they can’t get the votes by the end of next week for a VONC, and they continue to oppose the government on Brexit, the whip will be withdrawn. If that means a general election that gives Corbyn a majority, thanks to a Tory split, so be it. The ERG, and everyone associated with it, will be finished.
These people are a cancer in the Conservative Party. They must concede or be cut out.0 -
My Sunday thread is basically a list of the ERG members and me writing a swear word or fifteen next to their name.
I wish Steve Baker had a vagina on his head so someone could fuck some sense into him.
Mind you I could say the same for most of the MPs in Henry Zeffman’s tweet.0 -
What's that sound I hear....brrrrhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....sounds like a shredder to me.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1063453446152626178
So 47.999999 is enough folks!0 -
Andrew Bridgen has sent 10 letters. That's official.FrancisUrquhart said:I can only imagine the WhatsApp group messages among the Tory MPs, especially ERG, trying to find out who has sent letters etc.
I am guessing Graham Brady has probably quietly unsubscribed from all the groups and blocked everybody.0 -
Seems strange to me. 47 votes is <15%, Sam is rounding the requirement down to 47.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1063453446152626178
So 47.999999 is enough folks!0 -
What does he know about national interest? I mean, for f**** sake, look at his grandfather.CarlottaVance said:I agree with Nick
https://twitter.com/nsoames/status/1063391067289079808?s=210 -
Mr. Urquhart, hopefully it'll get more than thirty seconds on the news.0
-
The Brexit ultras and the Peoples' Vote ultras are both playing with fire. By not yielding, they run the risk of getting what they least want.Brom said:
If you're going to critique Rees Mogg et all for wanting a proper Brexit then how ridiculous do the likes of Jo Johnson and Sarah Wollaston look with their constant people's vote whining? And I come as that as someone who largely supports May's deal.JosiasJessop said:
"...nd the ERG are representing their views"Xenon said:
Moon-howling buccaneeers?SouthamObserver said:You know, this is actually a huge opportunity for the Conservative party to see off the moon-howling Buccaneers. I know many good Tories and I cannot believe that any of these ERG cretins, charlatans, liars and simpletons speak for them. Get these loons out, get them gone. Learn from labour before it is too late. This could well be your last chance.
Most ordinary people oppose May's deal and the ERG are representing their views. I realise most people on here want a political class stitch-up to get out of delivering on Brexit, but not everyone shares that view.
Urrm, if you hadn't noticed, many people reject the deal from a pro-remain standpoint. The ERG are not representing their views.
As against that, some Brexit ultras have persuaded themselves that staying in the EU is better than the wrong kind of Brexit, and some Peoples' Vote Ultras have persuaded themselves that a crash out Brexit is better than a Brexit Deal.
0 -
I have a feeling if she did that the Tories would win the subsequent election.RoyalBlue said:I think it’s getting to the point that May should tell the ERG that if they can’t get the votes by the end of next week for a VONC, and they continue to oppose the government on Brexit, the whip will be withdrawn. If that means a general election that gives Corbyn a majority, thanks to a Tory split, so be it. The ERG, and everyone associated with it, will be finished.
These people are a cancer in the Conservative Party. They must concede or be cut out.0 -
Yes, but they are all requests for an Irish passport.AndyJS said:
Andrew Bridgen has sent 10 letters. That's official.FrancisUrquhart said:I can only imagine the WhatsApp group messages among the Tory MPs, especially ERG, trying to find out who has sent letters etc.
I am guessing Graham Brady has probably quietly unsubscribed from all the groups and blocked everybody.0 -
There is an eerie photograph in the Guardian report, showing the large redwoods still standing around the outlines of buildings burned to the ground:Big_G_NorthWales said:In all of this has everyone seen the news today that over 600 are missing in the California's fires
Just dreadful
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/15/california-camp-fire-missing-death-toll
(Which also rather graphically illustrates why the Trumpian solution of logging isn't a solution at all.)
0 -
This generation's Tony Marlows, frankly.TheScreamingEagles said:My Sunday thread is basically a list of the ERG members and me writing a swear word or fifteen next to their name.
I wish Steve Baker had a vagina on his head so someone could fuck some sense into him.
Mind you I could say the same for most of the MPs in Henry Zeffman’s tweet.0 -
Which rather conveniently takes us up to May....Anazina said:
Days within months with an 'r' in them are also exempt, it's a reverse of the well-known when to eat oysters rule.FrancisUrquhart said:
Even longer if he doesn't check his postbox due to a busy schedule of engagements outside of Westminster.Pulpstar said:One point on the coup - don't forget Brady will give May 48 hours notice before he triggers the VONC. I assume that doesn't include weekends, we're potentially on a bit of a delayed schedule here. Whether Steve Baker himself realises this, I'm not sure...
0 -
YesRobD said:
Hopefully some will be found safely. Did you see the satellite map showing how far the smoke has travelled? Abysmal air quality here in San Francisco over the last week.Big_G_NorthWales said:In all of this has everyone seen the news today that over 600 are missing in the California's fires
Just dreadful0 -
Why? Gweek, or coat-hanger aeriels have gone missing?MarqueeMark said:
I loved Gweek, which was a car radio aeriel made from a metal coat-hanger. Sadly, that word is all that remains these days.Omnium said:
Douglas Adam's 'The Meaning of Liff' ?Nigelb said:Time to redefine the erg as a measure of intelligence or credibility ?
An erg is approximately the amount of work done (or energy consumed) by one common house fly performing one "push up"...
My favorite was 'Blean' (A village I spent quite some time in)0 -
So Diane Abbott taught mathematics to Steve Baker.0
