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William lives in a world, as far as I can tell, where the beat of a butterfly's wings in Papua New Guinea leads down a thought process flow chart, which always goes to a big box at the bottom marked "REMAIN". He's just about refrained for five days from announcing that TM is about to ask for a second referendum, since she stood up on national TV from No 10 and said she wouldn't last Friday, but I note that Sajid Javid, saying the same thing yesterday led straight down the box to "he doesn't mean it".Anorak said:
You realise it's a joke? Please tell me you realise it's a joke.welshowl said:
And your evidence for this?williamglenn said:
On average it takes them two months to become more British than the people who live here.TOPPING said:If only we Brits didn't hate foreigners so much a deal would be easy-peasy.
And while we're on the subject, at what point do we deem people who have been living abroad foreigners? Two generations? Two years?
Of course there is none.
Frankly, no I don't realise it's a joke coming from the source it did, and I doubt it is. It's, to me at least, yet another smug barb, and I pride myself on having a pretty good sense of the absurd. Most of the time.0 -
Terrible for herAnorak said:Poor woman. [Look at Cruz!]
https://twitter.com/OsitaNwanevu/status/10453235795067863040 -
Hmmmmmm.Andy_Cooke said:
Their stance is a bit equivocal. They're not calling for one, but have said they "wouldn't stand in the way" of one.welshowl said:
I wondered where the SNP deep down sits in all of this.Andy_Cooke said:
It does point rather towards another referendum. Either way, get the voters to dip their hands in the blood. No arguing over "this isn't the Brexit we voted for".Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree the voters will be livid one way or anotherwelshowl said:
I meant the voters.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The 40 or so ultra Brexiteers risk losing everything if they are not careful. They are a small group in the HOCwelshowl said:
No it would open the splits further and merely bolster Brexiteers' view of the EU as malign (in that case).anothernick said:
It's hard to see May being able to grovel to the EU for an EEA arrangement after all she has said - it would be personally and politically an abject humiliation. If it came to such an eventuality I think the whole Idea of Brexit would be brought into question and pressure would build for a complete reversal.PeterC said:
The two most extreme options. I doubt it would come to that. In the event of stalemate I think the government would sue for EFTA / EEA - at least we could say we have left the EU/.anothernick said:
I suspect that if we are forced into an emergency referendum it will be either remain or no deal. So the wording of that will not be difficult. Parliament could put the wording of the question into the legislation.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. The problem is the wording rather than the timing and the debates on that will be extraordinaryanothernick said:
Indeed. Parliament is sovereign (and always has been, as we know). It could hold a referendum next Friday were it so minded.
But the Conservative voters (who are most motivated to leave) don't want to risk leaving at all, so they'll want an exit with no further vote right up until things turn to ratshit, at which point, they'll turn on the Tories faster than you can say "hang on, what?", and blame them for everything.
May has a number of options, all of them terrible.
I'm sure they are quite happy making noises about revoking A50 through Parliament, but have they actually called for a second referendum?
And do they really want to set that precedent? Genuine question, I don't know.0 -
One man's smug barb is another man's clever witticism. Depends on where you're standing, and how long since your last cup of coffee...welshowl said:
William lives in a world, as far as I can tell, where the beat of a butterfly's wings in Papua New Guinea leads down a thought process flow chart, which always goes to a big box at the bottom marked "REMAIN". He's just about refrained for five days from announcing that TM is about to ask for a second referendum, since she stood up on national TV from No 10 and said she wouldn't last Friday, but I note that Sajid Javid, saying the same thing yesterday led straight down the box to "he doesn't mean it".Anorak said:
You realise it's a joke? Please tell me you realise it's a joke.welshowl said:
And your evidence for this?williamglenn said:
On average it takes them two months to become more British than the people who live here.TOPPING said:If only we Brits didn't hate foreigners so much a deal would be easy-peasy.
And while we're on the subject, at what point do we deem people who have been living abroad foreigners? Two generations? Two years?
Of course there is none.
Frankly, no I don't realise it's a joke coming from the source it did, and I doubt it is. It's, to me at least, yet another smug barb, and I pride myself on having a pretty good sense of the absurd. Most of the time.
Yes, William can be a little monomaniacal at times, but there are plenty on the 'other' side who are too.0 -
So you back May then? No deal is better than Canada?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am so sorry Archer as I know it means a lot to you but Canada is gonearcher101au said:
He has to say that. But Chequers is dead, as everyone except TM knows. Of course people in the cabinet are discussing what is to be done next. If May can't face reality, one of them may have to do it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
What are you talking about. He has in the last 20 minutes confirmed Chequers is the only deal in town live on Sky and Faisal Islam endorsed his viewPhilip_Thompson said:
He is in the Cabinet of course he has to say that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Jeremy Hunt live on Sky has just said Chequers is not dead.Philip_Thompson said:
Raab, Hunt, Gove and Javid are setting the clear direction of travel but you have totally misunderstood them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sadly I think you are going to be very disappointed. If TM struck a Canada deal of course I would but you are not listening to the clear direction of travel
They haven't said no to no deal. They have said Canada over no deal.
You are in denial over Canada
Simultaneously though he is contradicting May's line that it is Chequers or no deal by saying we have a Plan B (Canada) over no deal. You are in denial.
You can watch his interview tonight on Sky at 9.300 -
We disaree? I asked you a question. I'll repeat:Big_G_NorthWales said:
To be honest and with the greatest respect we must agree to disagree.Philip_Thompson said:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKCN1Big_G_NorthWales said:
What are you talking about. He has in the last 20 minutes confirmed Chequers is the only deal in town live on Sky and Faisal Islam endorsed his viewPhilip_Thompson said:
He is in the Cabinet of course he has to say that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Jeremy Hunt live on Sky has just said Chequers is not dead.Philip_Thompson said:
Raab, Hunt, Gove and Javid are setting the clear direction of travel but you have totally misunderstood them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sadly I think you are going to be very disappointed. If TM struck a Canada deal of course I would but you are not listening to the clear direction of travel
They haven't said no to no deal. They have said Canada over no deal.
You are in denial over Canada
Simultaneously though he is contradicting May's line that it is Chequers or no deal by saying we have a Plan B (Canada) over no deal. You are in denial.
You can watch his interview tonight on Sky at 9.30
He has to say that Chequers is the only deal but he can't make the EU agres to it. Privately the cabinet are breaking ranks with May.
May is insisting it is Chequers or no deal.
Cabinet are insisting it is Chequers or Canada.
If the the EU stand their ground and reject Chequers again then what should be our Plan B?
May's plan no deal or Hunt, Give, Javid and Raab saying Canada?
If the the EU stand their ground and reject Chequers again then what should be our Plan B?
May's plan no deal or Hunt, Gove, Javid and Raab saying Canada?0 -
Completely o/t today is my birthday and my wife took me out for lunch at the new V&A in Dundee. There are some extensive free exhibitions and some nice models but as I anticipated the building is the absolute star. I would say it looks even more incredible from the inside than it does from the out. Not sure if this will work but:
https://mail.aol.com/webmail/getPart?uid=30993820&partId=2&scope=STANDARD&saveAs=IMG_0437.JPG0 -
This is becoming very arcane Conservative internal politics now, as no-deal approaches. Look in the wing mirror.0
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Actually the idefatigability has it's own charm! But Christ........Anorak said:
One man's smug barb is another man's clever witticism. Depends on where you're standing, and how long since your last cup of coffee...welshowl said:
William lives in a world, as far as I can tell, where the beat of a butterfly's wings in Papua New Guinea leads down a thought process flow chart, which always goes to a big box at the bottom marked "REMAIN". He's just about refrained for five days from announcing that TM is about to ask for a second referendum, since she stood up on national TV from No 10 and said she wouldn't last Friday, but I note that Sajid Javid, saying the same thing yesterday led straight down the box to "he doesn't mean it".Anorak said:
You realise it's a joke? Please tell me you realise it's a joke.welshowl said:
And your evidence for this?williamglenn said:
On average it takes them two months to become more British than the people who live here.TOPPING said:If only we Brits didn't hate foreigners so much a deal would be easy-peasy.
And while we're on the subject, at what point do we deem people who have been living abroad foreigners? Two generations? Two years?
Of course there is none.
Frankly, no I don't realise it's a joke coming from the source it did, and I doubt it is. It's, to me at least, yet another smug barb, and I pride myself on having a pretty good sense of the absurd. Most of the time.
Yes, William can be a little monomaniacal at times, but there are plenty on the 'other' side who are too.0 -
Canada is not an option because of N Ireland. EU won't accept Canada without NI in SM; UK won't accept intra-UK barriers.Philip_Thompson said:
So you back May then? No deal is better than Canada?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am so sorry Archer as I know it means a lot to you but Canada is gonearcher101au said:
He has to say that. But Chequers is dead, as everyone except TM knows. Of course people in the cabinet are discussing what is to be done next. If May can't face reality, one of them may have to do it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
What are you talking about. He has in the last 20 minutes confirmed Chequers is the only deal in town live on Sky and Faisal Islam endorsed his viewPhilip_Thompson said:
He is in the Cabinet of course he has to say that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Jeremy Hunt live on Sky has just said Chequers is not dead.Philip_Thompson said:
Raab, Hunt, Gove and Javid are setting the clear direction of travel but you have totally misunderstood them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sadly I think you are going to be very disappointed. If TM struck a Canada deal of course I would but you are not listening to the clear direction of travel
They haven't said no to no deal. They have said Canada over no deal.
You are in denial over Canada
Simultaneously though he is contradicting May's line that it is Chequers or no deal by saying we have a Plan B (Canada) over no deal. You are in denial.
You can watch his interview tonight on Sky at 9.300 -
It doesn't bother me much at all - I don't expect the EU to agree Canada with May and I have always predicted no deal. Strategically, no deal is now the best way forward for the UK. Once the pressure of A50 is gone and the EU don't have the money nor do they have control over the NI border any longer, the conditions will be in place for a quick deal based on CETA.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am so sorry Archer as I know it means a lot to you but Canada is gonearcher101au said:
He has to say that. But Chequers is dead, as everyone except TM knows. Of course people in the cabinet are discussing what is to be done next. If May can't face reality, one of them may have to do it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
What are you talking about. He has in the last 20 minutes confirmed Chequers is the only deal in town live on Sky and Faisal Islam endorsed his viewPhilip_Thompson said:
He is in the Cabinet of course he has to say that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Jeremy Hunt live on Sky has just said Chequers is not dead.Philip_Thompson said:
Raab, Hunt, Gove and Javid are setting the clear direction of travel but you have totally misunderstood them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sadly I think you are going to be very disappointed. If TM struck a Canada deal of course I would but you are not listening to the clear direction of travel
They haven't said no to no deal. They have said Canada over no deal.
You are in denial over Canada
Simultaneously though he is contradicting May's line that it is Chequers or no deal by saying we have a Plan B (Canada) over no deal. You are in denial.
You can watch his interview tonight on Sky at 9.30
I think this is the only way forward now because the EU simply don't believe May won't cave in and give them everything they want. But even if she does, the DUP and ERG will vote it down.
It would be a lot better for the country if we just walked away now and prepared for no deal and the negotiations that will follow rather than go through this mess any longer.0 -
But Canada is an option apart from N Ireland and Chequers isn't an option for a number of other reasons they won't accept it.david_herdson said:Canada is not an option because of N Ireland. EU won't accept Canada without NI in SM; UK won't accept intra-UK barriers.
No deal isn't an option because of N Ireland too and that applies to the EU too and a whole host of other reasons.
So when you eliminate the impossible, all that remains however improbable is either EEA or Canada. As the EU said on day 1.0 -
TM no deal comments are in the context of a hard negotiation.Philip_Thompson said:
So you back May then? No deal is better than Canada?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am so sorry Archer as I know it means a lot to you but Canada is gonearcher101au said:
He has to say that. But Chequers is dead, as everyone except TM knows. Of course people in the cabinet are discussing what is to be done next. If May can't face reality, one of them may have to do it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
What are you talking about. He has in the last 20 minutes confirmed Chequers is the only deal in town live on Sky and Faisal Islam endorsed his viewPhilip_Thompson said:
He is in the Cabinet of course he has to say that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Jeremy Hunt live on Sky has just said Chequers is not dead.Philip_Thompson said:
Raab, Hunt, Gove and Javid are setting the clear direction of travel but you have totally misunderstood them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sadly I think you are going to be very disappointed. If TM struck a Canada deal of course I would but you are not listening to the clear direction of travel
They haven't said no to no deal. They have said Canada over no deal.
You are in denial over Canada
Simultaneously though he is contradicting May's line that it is Chequers or no deal by saying we have a Plan B (Canada) over no deal. You are in denial.
You can watch his interview tonight on Sky at 9.30
If she negotiates Canada fine but it is clear that it will not happen
TM deal will be the only option0 -
Happy birthday DavidL0
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Its only an option if the EU agree to it! Do you think the EU are bluffing and will really agree to it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
TM no deal comments are in the context of a hard negotiation.Philip_Thompson said:
So you back May then? No deal is better than Canada?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am so sorry Archer as I know it means a lot to you but Canada is gonearcher101au said:
He has to say that. But Chequers is dead, as everyone except TM knows. Of course people in the cabinet are discussing what is to be done next. If May can't face reality, one of them may have to do it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
What are you talking about. He has in the last 20 minutes confirmed Chequers is the only deal in town live on Sky and Faisal Islam endorsed his viewPhilip_Thompson said:
He is in the Cabinet of course he has to say that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Jeremy Hunt live on Sky has just said Chequers is not dead.Philip_Thompson said:
Raab, Hunt, Gove and Javid are setting the clear direction of travel but you have totally misunderstood them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sadly I think you are going to be very disappointed. If TM struck a Canada deal of course I would but you are not listening to the clear direction of travel
They haven't said no to no deal. They have said Canada over no deal.
You are in denial over Canada
Simultaneously though he is contradicting May's line that it is Chequers or no deal by saying we have a Plan B (Canada) over no deal. You are in denial.
You can watch his interview tonight on Sky at 9.30
If she negotiates Canada fine but it is clear that it will not happen
TM deal will be the only option
If the EU won't agree to it then what is the fallback? She's claiming no deal. Hunt, Javid, Raab and Gove say Canada is better than no deal. So what do you think?0 -
Agreed. It is too easy for the EU to reject Chequers. But if the UK offer CETA on the express provision there will be no NI backstop, EU leaders will be faced with a real choice for the first time - a deal they can easily do against no deal. And lets be honest - none of them actually give a stuff about the NI border. That is just Barnier's little game.Philip_Thompson said:
But Canada is an option apart from N Ireland and Chequers isn't an option for a number of other reasons they won't accept it.david_herdson said:Canada is not an option because of N Ireland. EU won't accept Canada without NI in SM; UK won't accept intra-UK barriers.
No deal isn't an option because of N Ireland too and that applies to the EU too and a whole host of other reasons.
So when you eliminate the impossible, all that remains however improbable is either EEA or Canada. As the EU said on day 1.0 -
Maybe but the HOC are not going to accept no dealarcher101au said:
It doesn't bother me much at all - I don't expect the EU to agree Canada with May and I have always predicted no deal. Strategically, no deal is now the best way forward for the UK. Once the pressure of A50 is gone and the EU don't have the money nor do they have control over the NI border any longer, the conditions will be in place for a quick deal based on CETA.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am so sorry Archer as I know it means a lot to you but Canada is gonearcher101au said:
He has to say that. But Chequers is dead, as everyone except TM knows. Of course people in the cabinet are discussing what is to be done next. If May can't face reality, one of them may have to do it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
What are you talking about. He has in the last 20 minutes confirmed Chequers is the only deal in town live on Sky and Faisal Islam endorsed his viewPhilip_Thompson said:
He is in the Cabinet of course he has to say that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Jeremy Hunt live on Sky has just said Chequers is not dead.Philip_Thompson said:
Raab, Hunt, Gove and Javid are setting the clear direction of travel but you have totally misunderstood them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sadly I think you are going to be very disappointed. If TM struck a Canada deal of course I would but you are not listening to the clear direction of travel
They haven't said no to no deal. They have said Canada over no deal.
You are in denial over Canada
Simultaneously though he is contradicting May's line that it is Chequers or no deal by saying we have a Plan B (Canada) over no deal. You are in denial.
You can watch his interview tonight on Sky at 9.30
I think this is the only way forward now because the EU simply don't believe May won't cave in and give them everything they want. But even if she does, the DUP and ERG will vote it down.
It would be a lot better for the country if we just walked away now and prepared for no deal and the negotiations that will follow rather than go through this mess any longer.0 -
Happy birthday, Mr. L.0
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I really have concluded this discussionPhilip_Thompson said:
Its only an option if the EU agree to it! Do you think the EU are bluffing and will really agree to it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
TM no deal comments are in the context of a hard negotiation.Philip_Thompson said:
So you back May then? No deal is better than Canada?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am so sorry Archer as I know it means a lot to you but Canada is gonearcher101au said:
He has to say that. But Chequers is dead, as everyone except TM knows. Of course people in the cabinet are discussing what is to be done next. If May can't face reality, one of them may have to do it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
What are you talking about. He has in the last 20 minutes confirmed Chequers is the only deal in town live on Sky and Faisal Islam endorsed his viewPhilip_Thompson said:
He is in the Cabinet of course he has to say that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Jeremy Hunt live on Sky has just said Chequers is not dead.Philip_Thompson said:
Raab, Hunt, Gove and Javid are setting the clear direction of travel but you have totally misunderstood them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sadly I think you are going to be very disappointed. If TM struck a Canada deal of course I would but you are not listening to the clear direction of travel
They haven't said no to no deal. They have said Canada over no deal.
You are in denial over Canada
Simultaneously though he is contradicting May's line that it is Chequers or no deal by saying we have a Plan B (Canada) over no deal. You are in denial.
You can watch his interview tonight on Sky at 9.30
If she negotiates Canada fine but it is clear that it will not happen
TM deal will be the only option
If the EU won't agree to it then what is the fallback? She's claiming no deal. Hunt, Javid, Raab and Gove say Canada is better than no deal. So what do you think?0 -
Best not spend too much time looking at the models when your wife is around!DavidL said:Completely o/t today is my birthday and my wife took me out for lunch at the new V&A in Dundee. There are some extensive free exhibitions and some nice models but as I anticipated the building is the absolute star. I would say it looks even more incredible from the inside than it does from the out. Not sure if this will work but:
https://mail.aol.com/webmail/getPart?uid=30993820&partId=2&scope=STANDARD&saveAs=IMG_0437.JPG
Happy birthday Mr L.0 -
There's also whether EFTA would accept it. I suspect it probably would but the UK simply transitioning to EFTA and EEA membership on 29 March 2019 isn't something within the gift of either the UK or EU and would require a separate accession process.Andy_Cooke said:
Minimum turmoil, minimum disruption, keeps us close to the orbit of the EU, already agreed as a standard Agreement, makes everyone's lives easier.ralphmalph said:
No food or fish in EEA. Why would Ireland, France, NL, DK, PL, It, ES or basically all of them accept that?Andy_Cooke said:
Chequers is dead; it's not an option. It's one of the impossible ones rejected; the rest are merely highly unpalatable.Richard_Nabavi said:
terms, payments etc. And there is zero chance that FoM could be fudged in an EEA scenario; it would be identical to remaining in the EU in that respect.Andy_Cooke said:Anyway, we seem to have few options and all of them bad:
- Attempt a Canada-style deal. This would take many years (just look at how long CETA took, and th
- Transition to EEA. This could be done quickly and relatively easily (and painlessly) and there's possibly a majority in Parliament for it, but it's a hard sell to the public, especially with FoM (which may be overcomable with the Liechtenstein scenario). Possibly the least popular option with the public.
- Multiple minimal deal Brexit ("controlled No Deal"): Massive queues at ports, significant issues with trade (including supply chain issues that would propagate throughout the domestic economy), very few preparations are really done, would cause serious issues that wouldn't be solved in the near term
- No Deal ("crash out No Deal"). Really really bad, colossal queues at ports, serious damage to trade and domestic economy, few preparations really done, would cause huge issues that would take many years to resolve.
- Remain after all. Now launching Leavers-1 to orbit, serious anger, loss of faith in democracy, minimal economic issues, political and social issues that led to the Brexit vote could be swept under the table.
Have I missed any?
You're right with the Canada-style deal - it would indeed increase the supply-chain issues; it's less attractive as well as being difficult and prolonged.
The EEA transition is relatively easy - there's an appropriate off-the-shelf agreement; it's just the ratification required (Payments are already made clear in it). You're right that it's not necessarily that quick to sign and get ratified, but it's orders of magnitude quicker than any alternative agreement other than controlled crash or uncontrolled crash.
They'd accept EEA, no question.
The difficult bit is if we would accept it, and that's a big hurdle.0 -
There does seem to be an issue with eliminating the impossible.Philip_Thompson said:
But Canada is an option apart from N Ireland and Chequers isn't an option for a number of other reasons they won't accept it.david_herdson said:Canada is not an option because of N Ireland. EU won't accept Canada without NI in SM; UK won't accept intra-UK barriers.
No deal isn't an option because of N Ireland too and that applies to the EU too and a whole host of other reasons.
So when you eliminate the impossible, all that remains however improbable is either EEA or Canada. As the EU said on day 1.
Everyone seems to have a strong opinion of what is and is not impossible, and it seems to disagree with everyone else's such opinion.0 -
Parliament has two, and only two options. They can vote for or against any deal presented. Or they can no confidence the Government.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe but the HOC are not going to accept no deal
Nothing else Parliament does will make any difference.0 -
For now. Once we have left on the basis of No (Trade) Deal on 29th March, the EU will subsequently realise that it prefers a Canada type trading arrangement to nothing, regardless of what happens to Northern Ireland.david_herdson said:
Canada is not an option because of N Ireland. EU won't accept Canada without NI in SM; UK won't accept intra-UK barriers.Philip_Thompson said:
So you back May then? No deal is better than Canada?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am so sorry Archer as I know it means a lot to you but Canada is gonearcher101au said:
He has to say that. But Chequers is dead, as everyone except TM knows. Of course people in the cabinet are discussing what is to be done next. If May can't face reality, one of them may have to do it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
What are you talking about. He has in the last 20 minutes confirmed Chequers is the only deal in town live on Sky and Faisal Islam endorsed his viewPhilip_Thompson said:
He is in the Cabinet of course he has to say that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Jeremy Hunt live on Sky has just said Chequers is not dead.Philip_Thompson said:
Raab, Hunt, Gove and Javid are setting the clear direction of travel but you have totally misunderstood them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sadly I think you are going to be very disappointed. If TM struck a Canada deal of course I would but you are not listening to the clear direction of travel
They haven't said no to no deal. They have said Canada over no deal.
You are in denial over Canada
Simultaneously though he is contradicting May's line that it is Chequers or no deal by saying we have a Plan B (Canada) over no deal. You are in denial.
You can watch his interview tonight on Sky at 9.300 -
Looking at this cross examination in the US with that row of men it does make you wonder if the US are in some dark age rather than 2018
I pay little attention to US politics apart from hoping Trump clears off but I would appreciate someone explaining to me why this threatens Trump's presidency
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Thanks. Sorry about the pictures but the inside looks even more like a wooden sailing boat with portholes overlooking the river and views of Cook's Discovery out the side window. It really is an exceptional building.Philip_Thompson said:Happy birthday DavidL
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No you haven't, you haven't said what your Plan B is. You're the one who made a big deal about Hunt, Javid, Raab and Gove rejecting no deal but they did so specifically by naming a Plan B - Canada. That seems to be an uncomfortable truth for you.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I really have concluded this discussionPhilip_Thompson said:
Its only an option if the EU agree to it! Do you think the EU are bluffing and will really agree to it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
TM no deal comments are in the context of a hard negotiation.Philip_Thompson said:
So you back May then? No deal is better than Canada?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am so sorry Archer as I know it means a lot to you but Canada is gonearcher101au said:
He has to say that. But Chequers is dead, as everyone except TM knows. Of course people in the cabinet are discussing what is to be done next. If May can't face reality, one of them may have to do it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
What are you talking about. He has in the last 20 minutes confirmed Chequers is the only deal in town live on Sky and Faisal Islam endorsed his viewPhilip_Thompson said:
He is in the Cabinet of course he has to say that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Jeremy Hunt live on Sky has just said Chequers is not dead.Philip_Thompson said:
Raab, Hunt, Gove and Javid are setting the clear direction of travel but you have totally misunderstood them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sadly I think you are going to be very disappointed. If TM struck a Canada deal of course I would but you are not listening to the clear direction of travel
They haven't said no to no deal. They have said Canada over no deal.
You are in denial over Canada
Simultaneously though he is contradicting May's line that it is Chequers or no deal by saying we have a Plan B (Canada) over no deal. You are in denial.
You can watch his interview tonight on Sky at 9.30
If she negotiates Canada fine but it is clear that it will not happen
TM deal will be the only option
If the EU won't agree to it then what is the fallback? She's claiming no deal. Hunt, Javid, Raab and Gove say Canada is better than no deal. So what do you think?0 -
As you wishPhilip_Thompson said:
No you haven't, you haven't said what your Plan B is. You're the one who made a big deal about Hunt, Javid, Raab and Gove rejecting no deal but they did so specifically by naming a Plan B - Canada. That seems to be an uncomfortable truth for you.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I really have concluded this discussionPhilip_Thompson said:
Its only an option if the EU agree to it! Do you think the EU are bluffing and will really agree to it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
TM no deal comments are in the context of a hard negotiation.Philip_Thompson said:
So you back May then? No deal is better than Canada?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am so sorry Archer as I know it means a lot to you but Canada is gonearcher101au said:
He has to say that. But Chequers is dead, as everyone except TM knows. Of course people in the cabinet are discussing what is to be done next. If May can't face reality, one of them may have to do it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
What are you talking about. He has in the last 20 minutes confirmed Chequers is the only deal in town live on Sky and Faisal Islam endorsed his viewPhilip_Thompson said:
He is in the Cabinet of course he has to say that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Jeremy Hunt live on Sky has just said Chequers is not dead.Philip_Thompson said:
Raab, Hunt, Gove and Javid are setting the clear direction of travel but you have totally misunderstood them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sadly I think you are going to be very disappointed. If TM struck a Canada deal of course I would but you are not listening to the clear direction of travel
They haven't said no to no deal. They have said Canada over no deal.
You are in denial over Canada
Simultaneously though he is contradicting May's line that it is Chequers or no deal by saying we have a Plan B (Canada) over no deal. You are in denial.
You can watch his interview tonight on Sky at 9.30
If she negotiates Canada fine but it is clear that it will not happen
TM deal will be the only option
If the EU won't agree to it then what is the fallback? She's claiming no deal. Hunt, Javid, Raab and Gove say Canada is better than no deal. So what do you think?0 -
It doesn't matter whether parliament revokes the PM's right to invoke A50; that invocation has already happened and nothing within domestic UK politics can retrospectively change the notification's validity.Beverley_C said:
No. She had a ruling that the Executive could not unilaterally request A50 without Parliament's approval.welshowl said:
Except didn't good old Gina Miller make sure it went through as an Act?Beverley_C said:
The referendum was only advisory, it had no legal force. If there was a need Brexit could simply be stopped, parked, A50 suspended or withdrawn and the whole thing dealt with on a reasonable schedule.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. The problem is the wording rather than the timing and the debates on that will be extraordinaryanothernick said:
Indeed. Parliament is sovereign (and always has been, as we know). It could hold a referendum next Friday were it so minded.rpjs said:
DORA 1914 and the Emergency Powers (Defence) Act 1939 both completed all stages in a single day I believe.pbr2013 said:For proponents of a second referendum. There is not enough time.
https://services.parliament.uk/Bills/2015-16/europeanunionreferendum/stages.html
If Parliament had either brains or a spine, they would not have let Mrs May do it without a plan in place first. The referendum is still advisory and what Parliament can grant, Parliament can revoke.0 -
What's Plan B?Big_G_NorthWales said:
As you wishPhilip_Thompson said:
No you haven't, you haven't said what your Plan B is. You're the one who made a big deal about Hunt, Javid, Raab and Gove rejecting no deal but they did so specifically by naming a Plan B - Canada. That seems to be an uncomfortable truth for you.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I really have concluded this discussionPhilip_Thompson said:
Its only an option if the EU agree to it! Do you think the EU are bluffing and will really agree to it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
TM no deal comments are in the context of a hard negotiation.Philip_Thompson said:
So you back May then? No deal is better than Canada?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am so sorry Archer as I know it means a lot to you but Canada is gonearcher101au said:
He has to say that. But Chequers is dead, as everyone except TM knows. Of course people in the cabinet are discussing what is to be done next. If May can't face reality, one of them may have to do it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
What are you talking about. He has in the last 20 minutes confirmed Chequers is the only deal in town live on Sky and Faisal Islam endorsed his viewPhilip_Thompson said:
He is in the Cabinet of course he has to say that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Jeremy Hunt live on Sky has just said Chequers is not dead.Philip_Thompson said:
Raab, Hunt, Gove and Javid are setting the clear direction of travel but you have totally misunderstood them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sadly I think you are going to be very disappointed. If TM struck a Canada deal of course I would but you are not listening to the clear direction of travel
They haven't said no to no deal. They have said Canada over no deal.
You are in denial over Canada
Simultaneously though he is contradicting May's line that it is Chequers or no deal by saying we have a Plan B (Canada) over no deal. You are in denial.
You can watch his interview tonight on Sky at 9.30
If she negotiates Canada fine but it is clear that it will not happen
TM deal will be the only option
If the EU won't agree to it then what is the fallback? She's claiming no deal. Hunt, Javid, Raab and Gove say Canada is better than no deal. So what do you think?0 -
No Deal *is* an option - albeit an unpaletable one - because uniquely, it's the option that doesn't have to be agreed; it's simply what happens if nothing else is agreed. You're quite right that No Deal also fails the EU's Irish border question but that's simply an incentive for them to do an alternative deal, if they can; it doesn't mean they will, never mind must.Philip_Thompson said:
But Canada is an option apart from N Ireland and Chequers isn't an option for a number of other reasons they won't accept it.david_herdson said:Canada is not an option because of N Ireland. EU won't accept Canada without NI in SM; UK won't accept intra-UK barriers.
No deal isn't an option because of N Ireland too and that applies to the EU too and a whole host of other reasons.
So when you eliminate the impossible, all that remains however improbable is either EEA or Canada. As the EU said on day 1.0 -
Raab, Javid, Hunt and Gove did not endorse Canada, they endorse ChequersPhilip_Thompson said:
What's Plan B?Big_G_NorthWales said:
As you wishPhilip_Thompson said:
No you haven't, you haven't said what your Plan B is. You're the one who made a big deal about Hunt, Javid, Raab and Gove rejecting no deal but they did so specifically by naming a Plan B - Canada. That seems to be an uncomfortable truth for you.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I really have concluded this discussionPhilip_Thompson said:
Its only an option if the EU agree to it! Do you think the EU are bluffing and will really agree to it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
TM no deal comments are in the context of a hard negotiation.Philip_Thompson said:
So you back May then? No deal is better than Canada?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am so sorry Archer as I know it means a lot to you but Canada is gonearcher101au said:
He has to say that. But Chequers is dead, as everyone except TM knows. Of course people in the cabinet are discussing what is to be done next. If May can't face reality, one of them may have to do it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
What are you talking about. He has in the last 20 minutes confirmed Chequers is the only deal in town live on Sky and Faisal Islam endorsed his viewPhilip_Thompson said:
He is in the Cabinet of course he has to say that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Jeremy Hunt live on Sky has just said Chequers is not dead.Philip_Thompson said:
Raab, Hunt, Gove and Javid are setting the clear direction of travel but you have totally misunderstood them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sadly I think you are going to be very disappointed. If TM struck a Canada deal of course I would but you are not listening to the clear direction of travel
They haven't said no to no deal. They have said Canada over no deal.
You are in denial over Canada
Simultaneously though he is contradicting May's line that it is Chequers or no deal by saying we have a Plan B (Canada) over no deal. You are in denial.
You can watch his interview tonight on Sky at 9.30
If she negotiates Canada fine but it is clear that it will not happen
TM deal will be the only option
If the EU won't agree to it then what is the fallback? She's claiming no deal. Hunt, Javid, Raab and Gove say Canada is better than no deal. So what do you think?0 -
I see we are again witnessing the deeply unedifying spectacle of Brexiteer keyboard warriors calling for an economy wrecking No Deal Brexit from their permanent residence on the other side of the world. Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose, as they say in New South Wales.0
-
Yes, I was meaning pre-29/3/19. I wouldn't be at all surprised if in the event of No Deal, some of those 'technological customs solutions' start looking a bit more feasible to Brussels.Wulfrun_Phil said:
For now. Once we have left on the basis of No (Trade) Deal on 29th March, the EU will subsequently realise that it prefers a Canada type trading arrangement to nothing, regardless of what happens to Northern Ireland.david_herdson said:
Canada is not an option because of N Ireland. EU won't accept Canada without NI in SM; UK won't accept intra-UK barriers.Philip_Thompson said:
So you back May then? No deal is better than Canada?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am so sorry Archer as I know it means a lot to you but Canada is gonearcher101au said:
He has to say that. But Chequers is dead, as everyone except TM knows. Of course people in the cabinet are discussing what is to be done next. If May can't face reality, one of them may have to do it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
What are you talking about. He has in the last 20 minutes confirmed Chequers is the only deal in town live on Sky and Faisal Islam endorsed his viewPhilip_Thompson said:
He is in the Cabinet of course he has to say that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Jeremy Hunt live on Sky has just said Chequers is not dead.Philip_Thompson said:
Raab, Hunt, Gove and Javid are setting the clear direction of travel but you have totally misunderstood them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sadly I think you are going to be very disappointed. If TM struck a Canada deal of course I would but you are not listening to the clear direction of travel
They haven't said no to no deal. They have said Canada over no deal.
You are in denial over Canada
Simultaneously though he is contradicting May's line that it is Chequers or no deal by saying we have a Plan B (Canada) over no deal. You are in denial.
You can watch his interview tonight on Sky at 9.300 -
Indeed it makes you glad that wouldn't happen in this country.Big_G_NorthWales said:Looking at this cross examination in the US with that row of men it does make you wonder if the US are in some dark age rather than 2018
I pay little attention to US politics apart from hoping Trump clears off but I would appreciate someone explaining to me why this threatens Trump's presidency
It doesn't threaten Trump's presidency it does threaten what would be his "greatest" achievement. Had Hillary won she could have appointed a liberal to replace a staunch conservative on the Supreme Court (though would have had to pick a moderate to get past the Senate). A 5-4 conservative majority with a moderate swing conservative justice would have been a 5-4 liberal majority with some moderate swing liberal justices.
Trump got to replace the staunch conservative with another staunch conservative. That didn't really change the balance and was a missed opportunity for liberals.
Now though the moderate conservative is retiring. Kavanaugh is a staunch conservative. He's young too. The conservatives would have 5 staunch conservatives on the bench, almost all youngish. They would control the Supreme Court potentially for decades.
If Kavanaugh falls, then the Democrats may win enough Senators in November to prevent a staunch conservative being approved.0 -
It doesn't. It threatens the creation of a Republican/conservative-leaning Court though.Big_G_NorthWales said:Looking at this cross examination in the US with that row of men it does make you wonder if the US are in some dark age rather than 2018
I pay little attention to US politics apart from hoping Trump clears off but I would appreciate someone explaining to me why this threatens Trump's presidency0 -
We're sipping G & T's, and twirling our moustaches, and chuckling evilly, as we contemplate buying opportunities in the event of No Deal.Anazina said:I see we are again witnessing the deeply unedifying spectacle of Brexiteer keyboard warriors calling for an economy wrecking No Deal Brexit from their permanent residence on the other side of the world. Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose, as they say in New South Wales.
0 -
Lol.archer101au said:
Parliament has two, and only two options.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe but the HOC are not going to accept no deal
- They can vote for [the deal]
- or against any deal presented.
- Or they can no confidence the Government.
Nothing else Parliament does will make any difference.0 -
Doesn’t make it true.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It does not sound good for Kavanaugh. Emotional testimonyoxfordsimon said:
Dramatic - but I don't buy all of it.Big_G_NorthWales said:Dramatic 'live' testimony from the woman accusing Brett Kavanaugh on Sky
Think this will be big news on boadcast channels tonight and tomorrow.
Doubt Brexit will feature at all
0 -
Actually as a still-in-the-UK-remainer I am coming round to the idea of a No-Deal Brexit simply for the sheer entertainment value of watching the leading Brexiteers making their final statement as the rebels line them up in front of the (verbal) firing squads. A modern version of Les Tricoteuses... I suppose I need to learn to knit?Anazina said:I see we are again witnessing the deeply unedifying spectacle of Brexiteer keyboard warriors calling for an economy wrecking No Deal Brexit from their permanent residence on the other side of the world. Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose, as they say in New South Wales.
0 -
I hadn't realised that part of Republicans' defence of Kavanaugh is that two other men (presumably both named 'Spartacus') say they assaulted Ford, not Kavanaugh.
Extraordinary.0 -
Off-topic:
JAXA have released more images of the surface of asteroid Ryugu. Quite amazing pics - though I haven't seen any sign of the Clangers yet ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-456673500 -
Surely that depends on the ECJ case referred by the Scots?david_herdson said:
It doesn't matter whether parliament revokes the PM's right to invoke A50; that invocation has already happened and nothing within domestic UK politics can retrospectively change the notification's validity.Beverley_C said:
No. She had a ruling that the Executive could not unilaterally request A50 without Parliament's approval.welshowl said:
Except didn't good old Gina Miller make sure it went through as an Act?Beverley_C said:
The referendum was only advisory, it had no legal force. If there was a need Brexit could simply be stopped, parked, A50 suspended or withdrawn and the whole thing dealt with on a reasonable schedule.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. The problem is the wording rather than the timing and the debates on that will be extraordinaryanothernick said:
Indeed. Parliament is sovereign (and always has been, as we know). It could hold a referendum next Friday were it so minded.rpjs said:
DORA 1914 and the Emergency Powers (Defence) Act 1939 both completed all stages in a single day I believe.pbr2013 said:For proponents of a second referendum. There is not enough time.
https://services.parliament.uk/Bills/2015-16/europeanunionreferendum/stages.html
If Parliament had either brains or a spine, they would not have let Mrs May do it without a plan in place first. The referendum is still advisory and what Parliament can grant, Parliament can revoke.
0 -
Mr. D, there was a case in Australia of a woman found guilty (I forget the precise crime) when she claimed her very young son was snatched by dingoes. Part of the reason was that she wasn't blubbing her eyes out and the jury felt she was cold.
Later evidence proved she'd been telling the truth.
On the matter at hand, I'd be somewhat surprised if he ends up getting confirmed, but we'll see.0 -
Are you saying the FT and other papers carrying the same line are all lying? They endorse Chequers as Plan A, they endorse Canada as Plan B.Big_G_NorthWales said:Raab, Javid, Hunt and Gove did not endorse Canada, they endorse Chequers
Independent, Times and others all carrying the same line too.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-cabinet-support-canada-deal-eu-theresa-may-chequers-a8551721.html
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/theresa-may-losing-cabinet-support-for-no-deal-brexit-if-eu-talks-fail-9svwlwztx
What's Plan B?0 -
Not sure Archer is calling for a no deal. He wants a Canada deal that seems to have disappeared over the last few days with interventions from Amber Rudd (block of 40 conservatives) calling for a second referendum and voying to take down Canada, the DUP rejecting Canada, and Jeremy Hunt live from New York today backing TM and ChequersAnazina said:I see we are again witnessing the deeply unedifying spectacle of Brexiteer keyboard warriors calling for an economy wrecking No Deal Brexit from their permanent residence on the other side of the world. Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose, as they say in New South Wales.
I do understand that some will be annoyed or angry but TM deal is the only one in town and if it fails no deal is a possibility but more likely the question will go to the public. Remain or leave0 -
Well, we voted on the basis of very incomplete information. The govt could claim, probably with some justification, that in the light of current information, to proceed would be an act of national self-harm and given the schedules involved....welshowl said:
Yes. It could even repeal any Act that had made it non advisory, so to speak.Beverley_C said:
No. She had a ruling that the Executive could not unilaterally request A50 without Parliament's approval.welshowl said:
Except didn't good old Gina Miller make sure it went through as an Act?Beverley_C said:
The referendum was only advisory, it had no legal force. If there was a need Brexit could simply be stopped, parked, A50 suspended or withdrawn and the whole thing dealt with on a reasonable schedule.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. The problem is the wording rather than the timing and the debates on that will be extraordinaryanothernick said:
Indeed. Parliament is sovereign (and always has been, as we know). It could hold a referendum next Friday were it so minded.rpjs said:
DORA 1914 and the Emergency Powers (Defence) Act 1939 both completed all stages in a single day I believe.pbr2013 said:For proponents of a second referendum. There is not enough time.
https://services.parliament.uk/Bills/2015-16/europeanunionreferendum/stages.html
If Parliament had either brains or a spine, they would not have let Mrs May do it without a plan in place first. The referendum is still advisory and what Parliament can grant, Parliament can revoke.
However, at that point we really are off to the races.
Why vote?0 -
Hatch and Grassley are two of the longest serving Republican senators.
At the time of the alleged assault, they were both already in the Senate.0 -
Thanks - US politics beyond medavid_herdson said:
It doesn't. It threatens the creation of a Republican/conservative-leaning Court though.Big_G_NorthWales said:Looking at this cross examination in the US with that row of men it does make you wonder if the US are in some dark age rather than 2018
I pay little attention to US politics apart from hoping Trump clears off but I would appreciate someone explaining to me why this threatens Trump's presidency0 -
Isn't that three options?archer101au said:
Parliament has two, and only two options. They can vote for or against any deal presented. Or they can no confidence the Government.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe but the HOC are not going to accept no deal
Nothing else Parliament does will make any difference.0 -
Thank you for your explanationPhilip_Thompson said:
Indeed it makes you glad that wouldn't happen in this country.Big_G_NorthWales said:Looking at this cross examination in the US with that row of men it does make you wonder if the US are in some dark age rather than 2018
I pay little attention to US politics apart from hoping Trump clears off but I would appreciate someone explaining to me why this threatens Trump's presidency
It doesn't threaten Trump's presidency it does threaten what would be his "greatest" achievement. Had Hillary won she could have appointed a liberal to replace a staunch conservative on the Supreme Court (though would have had to pick a moderate to get past the Senate). A 5-4 conservative majority with a moderate swing conservative justice would have been a 5-4 liberal majority with some moderate swing liberal justices.
Trump got to replace the staunch conservative with another staunch conservative. That didn't really change the balance and was a missed opportunity for liberals.
Now though the moderate conservative is retiring. Kavanaugh is a staunch conservative. He's young too. The conservatives would have 5 staunch conservatives on the bench, almost all youngish. They would control the Supreme Court potentially for decades.
If Kavanaugh falls, then the Democrats may win enough Senators in November to prevent a staunch conservative being approved.0 -
Mrs C, any ETA on the Article 50 court case on revocation?
Also Mrs C, in legal terms, a u-turn would be entirely legitimate. But it would create absolutely massive ructions.0 -
david_herdson said:
Lol.archer101au said:
Parliament has two, and only two options.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe but the HOC are not going to accept no deal
- They can vote for [the deal]
- or against any deal presented.
- Or they can no confidence the Government.
Nothing else Parliament does will make any difference.
0 -
It's dreadful that so much political power is vested in a Court.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Thanks - US politics beyond medavid_herdson said:
It doesn't. It threatens the creation of a Republican/conservative-leaning Court though.Big_G_NorthWales said:Looking at this cross examination in the US with that row of men it does make you wonder if the US are in some dark age rather than 2018
I pay little attention to US politics apart from hoping Trump clears off but I would appreciate someone explaining to me why this threatens Trump's presidency0 -
Chequers - no deal - second referendumPhilip_Thompson said:
Are you saying the FT and other papers carrying the same line are all lying? They endorse Chequers as Plan A, they endorse Canada as Plan B.Big_G_NorthWales said:Raab, Javid, Hunt and Gove did not endorse Canada, they endorse Chequers
Independent, Times and others all carrying the same line too.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-cabinet-support-canada-deal-eu-theresa-may-chequers-a8551721.html
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/theresa-may-losing-cabinet-support-for-no-deal-brexit-if-eu-talks-fail-9svwlwztx
What's Plan B?
Canada went in the last 24 hours0 -
I know memory is a very difficult thing but I was struck by how precise she was able to be with regards to the boys 'pinballing' down the stair well - but couldn't remember the location or date of the incident.RobD said:
Doesn’t make it true.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It does not sound good for Kavanaugh. Emotional testimonyoxfordsimon said:
Dramatic - but I don't buy all of it.Big_G_NorthWales said:Dramatic 'live' testimony from the woman accusing Brett Kavanaugh on Sky
Think this will be big news on boadcast channels tonight and tomorrow.
Doubt Brexit will feature at all0 -
Adds up as well as anything else on Brexit.rcs1000 said:
Isn't that three options?archer101au said:
Parliament has two, and only two options. They can vote for or against any deal presented. Or they can no confidence the Government.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe but the HOC are not going to accept no deal
Nothing else Parliament does will make any difference.0 -
That's on whether A50 is revocable, not whether the original notification can be subsequently invalidated domestically. The two are of course linked but the earlier assertion was "what Parliament can grant, Parliament can revoke", which while true in terms of powers that might be usable in the future isn't true of those used in the past.Beverley_C said:
Surely that depends on the ECJ case referred by the Scots?david_herdson said:
It doesn't matter whether parliament revokes the PM's right to invoke A50; that invocation has already happened and nothing within domestic UK politics can retrospectively change the notification's validity.Beverley_C said:
No. She had a ruling that the Executive could not unilaterally request A50 without Parliament's approval.welshowl said:
Except didn't good old Gina Miller make sure it went through as an Act?Beverley_C said:
The referendum was only advisory, it had no legal force. If there was a need Brexit could simply be stopped, parked, A50 suspended or withdrawn and the whole thing dealt with on a reasonable schedule.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. The problem is the wording rather than the timing and the debates on that will be extraordinaryanothernick said:
Indeed. Parliament is sovereign (and always has been, as we know). It could hold a referendum next Friday were it so minded.rpjs said:
DORA 1914 and the Emergency Powers (Defence) Act 1939 both completed all stages in a single day I believe.pbr2013 said:For proponents of a second referendum. There is not enough time.
https://services.parliament.uk/Bills/2015-16/europeanunionreferendum/stages.html
If Parliament had either brains or a spine, they would not have let Mrs May do it without a plan in place first. The referendum is still advisory and what Parliament can grant, Parliament can revoke.
It is worth noting in passing that if the ECJ does rule that A50 can be unilaterally revoked, there'd still need to be another Act passed by Westminster as the one used by May to invoke A50 grants only that power. Given the court case that led to the Act, it follows that the government couldn't use inherent executive powers to override that explicitly conferred by parliament.0 -
The mother was jailed for life and served six or so years before the sad truth came out.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. D, there was a case in Australia of a woman found guilty (I forget the precise crime) when she claimed her very young son was snatched by dingoes. Part of the reason was that she wasn't blubbing her eyes out and the jury felt she was cold.
Later evidence proved she'd been telling the truth.
On the matter at hand, I'd be somewhat surprised if he ends up getting confirmed, but we'll see.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Azaria_Chamberlain
There is also the case of Peter Falconio. His girlfriend Joanna Lees survived the attempted kidnapping, but the Australian media ripped the sh*t out of her because she as not emotional enough. She was treated abominably by some of their media. The truth came out later utterly clearing her.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Peter_Falconio0 -
Well you could have said the same about Scottish Independence (hence my wondering about the SNP's postioning), or electing Corbyn. But if good old Jezza gets a small majority, we can't all say, hang on for three years whilst we have a good moan, before you actually get to walk down Downing St, and then we'll have another go at voting. We get another go once his Govt has been implemented. You can get another "go" at rejoining when we've left for a bit.Beverley_C said:
Well, we voted on the basis of very incomplete information. The govt could claim, probably with some justification, that in the light of current information, to proceed would be an act of national self-harm and given the schedules involved....welshowl said:
Yes. It could even repeal any Act that had made it non advisory, so to speak.Beverley_C said:
No. She had a ruling that the Executive could not unilaterally request A50 without Parliament's approval.welshowl said:
Except didn't good old Gina Miller make sure it went through as an Act?Beverley_C said:
The referendum was only advisory, it had no legal force. If there was a need Brexit could simply be stopped, parked, A50 suspended or withdrawn and the whole thing dealt with on a reasonable schedule.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. The problem is the wording rather than the timing and the debates on that will be extraordinaryanothernick said:
Indeed. Parliament is sovereign (and always has been, as we know). It could hold a referendum next Friday were it so minded.rpjs said:
DORA 1914 and the Emergency Powers (Defence) Act 1939 both completed all stages in a single day I believe.pbr2013 said:For proponents of a second referendum. There is not enough time.
https://services.parliament.uk/Bills/2015-16/europeanunionreferendum/stages.html
If Parliament had either brains or a spine, they would not have let Mrs May do it without a plan in place first. The referendum is still advisory and what Parliament can grant, Parliament can revoke.
However, at that point we really are off to the races.
Why vote?
Anyway "incomplete" is in the eye of the beholder. I felt sufficiently complete from 43 years of experience. What has come to light since about the EU bloody mindedness has merely confirmed my view.0 -
I wrote an article on this a few months ago:Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed it makes you glad that wouldn't happen in this country.Big_G_NorthWales said:Looking at this cross examination in the US with that row of men it does make you wonder if the US are in some dark age rather than 2018
I pay little attention to US politics apart from hoping Trump clears off but I would appreciate someone explaining to me why this threatens Trump's presidency
It doesn't threaten Trump's presidency it does threaten what would be his "greatest" achievement. Had Hillary won she could have appointed a liberal to replace a staunch conservative on the Supreme Court (though would have had to pick a moderate to get past the Senate). A 5-4 conservative majority with a moderate swing conservative justice would have been a 5-4 liberal majority with some moderate swing liberal justices.
Trump got to replace the staunch conservative with another staunch conservative. That didn't really change the balance and was a missed opportunity for liberals.
Now though the moderate conservative is retiring. Kavanaugh is a staunch conservative. He's young too. The conservatives would have 5 staunch conservatives on the bench, almost all youngish. They would control the Supreme Court potentially for decades.
If Kavanaugh falls, then the Democrats may win enough Senators in November to prevent a staunch conservative being approved.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/06/30/trumps-big-deal-the-supreme-court/0 -
Union Jack boxer shorts hanging on the washing line.welshowl said:
And your evidence for this?williamglenn said:
On average it takes them two months to become more British than the people who live here.TOPPING said:If only we Brits didn't hate foreigners so much a deal would be easy-peasy.
And while we're on the subject, at what point do we deem people who have been living abroad foreigners? Two generations? Two years?
Of course there is none.0 -
Strangely enough, I find myself agreeing with Archer here. Often hear that Parliament will block No Deal. But, the only way to do that is to vote for a deal. Parliament cannot magically make a deal appear to vote on if none exists.archer101au said:
Parliament has two, and only two options. They can vote for or against any deal presented. Or they can no confidence the Government.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe but the HOC are not going to accept no deal
Nothing else Parliament does will make any difference.
So, how exactly can HofC prevent No Deal, given that we leave in March?
Sorry if the answer is obvious.0 -
Very good... although I think the detail of your explanation is clear evidence of concern over losing the inevitable 2nd referendumwelshowl said:
William lives in a world, as far as I can tell, where the beat of a butterfly's wings in Papua New Guinea leads down a thought process flow chart, which always goes to a big box at the bottom marked "REMAIN". He's just about refrained for five days from announcing that TM is about to ask for a second referendum, since she stood up on national TV from No 10 and said she wouldn't last Friday, but I note that Sajid Javid, saying the same thing yesterday led straight down the box to "he doesn't mean it".Anorak said:
You realise it's a joke? Please tell me you realise it's a joke.welshowl said:
And your evidence for this?williamglenn said:
On average it takes them two months to become more British than the people who live here.TOPPING said:If only we Brits didn't hate foreigners so much a deal would be easy-peasy.
And while we're on the subject, at what point do we deem people who have been living abroad foreigners? Two generations? Two years?
Of course there is none.
Frankly, no I don't realise it's a joke coming from the source it did, and I doubt it is. It's, to me at least, yet another smug barb, and I pride myself on having a pretty good sense of the absurd. Most of the time.0 -
Canada went because the DUP who say tear up Chequers call it vague?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Chequers - no deal - second referendumPhilip_Thompson said:
Are you saying the FT and other papers carrying the same line are all lying? They endorse Chequers as Plan A, they endorse Canada as Plan B.Big_G_NorthWales said:Raab, Javid, Hunt and Gove did not endorse Canada, they endorse Chequers
Independent, Times and others all carrying the same line too.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-cabinet-support-canada-deal-eu-theresa-may-chequers-a8551721.html
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/theresa-may-losing-cabinet-support-for-no-deal-brexit-if-eu-talks-fail-9svwlwztx
What's Plan B?
Canada went in the last 24 hours
Or because Amber Rudd opposed it?
Or because it emerges the majority of the cabinet now back it as Plan B?
I trust the cabinet.0 -
Benson (contributor to Fox which is what I'm using as my yardstick here)
"Opening statements and first questions are complete. Thus far, Dr. Ford has struck me as intelligent, in control, and serious. It's impossible to know if she's telling the truth, but she has not come across as a liar."0 -
I remember. A very good article then and now.david_herdson said:
I wrote an article on this a few months ago:Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed it makes you glad that wouldn't happen in this country.Big_G_NorthWales said:Looking at this cross examination in the US with that row of men it does make you wonder if the US are in some dark age rather than 2018
I pay little attention to US politics apart from hoping Trump clears off but I would appreciate someone explaining to me why this threatens Trump's presidency
It doesn't threaten Trump's presidency it does threaten what would be his "greatest" achievement. Had Hillary won she could have appointed a liberal to replace a staunch conservative on the Supreme Court (though would have had to pick a moderate to get past the Senate). A 5-4 conservative majority with a moderate swing conservative justice would have been a 5-4 liberal majority with some moderate swing liberal justices.
Trump got to replace the staunch conservative with another staunch conservative. That didn't really change the balance and was a missed opportunity for liberals.
Now though the moderate conservative is retiring. Kavanaugh is a staunch conservative. He's young too. The conservatives would have 5 staunch conservatives on the bench, almost all youngish. They would control the Supreme Court potentially for decades.
If Kavanaugh falls, then the Democrats may win enough Senators in November to prevent a staunch conservative being approved.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/06/30/trumps-big-deal-the-supreme-court/0 -
Happy Birthday.DavidL said:Completely o/t today is my birthday and my wife took me out for lunch at the new V&A in Dundee. There are some extensive free exhibitions and some nice models but as I anticipated the building is the absolute star. I would say it looks even more incredible from the inside than it does from the out. Not sure if this will work but:
https://mail.aol.com/webmail/getPart?uid=30993820&partId=2&scope=STANDARD&saveAs=IMG_0437.JPG0 -
Mr. Jessop, I'd not heard that story (and thanks for providing the details for the one I mentioned). It's depressing that some see more emotions as more truth.0
-
GoodPhilip_Thompson said:
Canada went because the DUP who say tear up Chequers call it vague?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Chequers - no deal - second referendumPhilip_Thompson said:
Are you saying the FT and other papers carrying the same line are all lying? They endorse Chequers as Plan A, they endorse Canada as Plan B.Big_G_NorthWales said:Raab, Javid, Hunt and Gove did not endorse Canada, they endorse Chequers
Independent, Times and others all carrying the same line too.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-cabinet-support-canada-deal-eu-theresa-may-chequers-a8551721.html
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/theresa-may-losing-cabinet-support-for-no-deal-brexit-if-eu-talks-fail-9svwlwztx
What's Plan B?
Canada went in the last 24 hours
Or because Amber Rudd opposed it?
Or because it emerges the majority of the cabinet now back it as Plan B?
I trust the cabinet.0 -
It will certainly be a point of focus.archer101au said:
Agreed. It is too easy for the EU to reject Chequers. But if the UK offer CETA on the express provision there will be no NI backstop, EU leaders will be faced with a real choice for the first time - a deal they can easily do against no deal. And lets be honest - none of them actually give a stuff about the NI border. That is just Barnier's little game.Philip_Thompson said:
But Canada is an option apart from N Ireland and Chequers isn't an option for a number of other reasons they won't accept it.david_herdson said:Canada is not an option because of N Ireland. EU won't accept Canada without NI in SM; UK won't accept intra-UK barriers.
No deal isn't an option because of N Ireland too and that applies to the EU too and a whole host of other reasons.
So when you eliminate the impossible, all that remains however improbable is either EEA or Canada. As the EU said on day 1.0 -
david_herdson said:
That's on whether A50 is revocable, not whether the original notification can be subsequently invalidated domestically. The two are of course linked but the earlier assertion was "what Parliament can grant, Parliament can revoke", which while true in terms of powers that might be usable in the future isn't true of those used in the past.Beverley_C said:
Surely that depends on the ECJ case referred by the Scots?david_herdson said:
It doesn't matter whether parliament revokes the PM's right to invoke A50; that invocation has already happened and nothing within domestic UK politics can retrospectively change the notification's validity.Beverley_C said:
No. She had a ruling that the Executive could not unilaterally request A50 without Parliament's approval.welshowl said:
Except didn't good old Gina Miller make sure it went through as an Act?Beverley_C said:
The referendum was only advisory, it had no legal force. If there was a need Brexit could simply be stopped, parked, A50 suspended or withdrawn and the whole thing dealt with on a reasonable schedule.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. The problem is the wording rather than the timing and the debates on that will be extraordinaryanothernick said:
Indeed. Parliament is sovereign (and always has been, as we know). It could hold a referendum next Friday were it so minded.rpjs said:
DORA 1914 and the Emergency Powers (Defence) Act 1939 both completed all stages in a single day I believe.pbr2013 said:For proponents of a second referendum. There is not enough time.
https://services.parliament.uk/Bills/2015-16/europeanunionreferendum/stages.html
If Parliament had either brains or a spine, they would not have let Mrs May do it without a plan in place first. The referendum is still advisory and what Parliament can grant, Parliament can revoke.
It is worth noting in passing that if the ECJ does rule that A50 can be unilaterally revoked, there'd still need to be another Act passed by Westminster as the one used by May to invoke A50 grants only that power. Given the court case that led to the Act, it follows that the government couldn't use inherent executive powers to override that explicitly conferred by parliament.
0 -
Don't quite follow, if I'm honest.JohnRussell said:
Very good... although I think the detail of your explanation is clear evidence of concern over losing the inevitable 2nd referendumwelshowl said:
William lives in a world, as far as I can tell, where the beat of a butterfly's wings in Papua New Guinea leads down a thought process flow chart, which always goes to a big box at the bottom marked "REMAIN". He's just about refrained for five days from announcing that TM is about to ask for a second referendum, since she stood up on national TV from No 10 and said she wouldn't last Friday, but I note that Sajid Javid, saying the same thing yesterday led straight down the box to "he doesn't mean it".Anorak said:
You realise it's a joke? Please tell me you realise it's a joke.welshowl said:
And your evidence for this?williamglenn said:
On average it takes them two months to become more British than the people who live here.TOPPING said:If only we Brits didn't hate foreigners so much a deal would be easy-peasy.
And while we're on the subject, at what point do we deem people who have been living abroad foreigners? Two generations? Two years?
Of course there is none.
Frankly, no I don't realise it's a joke coming from the source it did, and I doubt it is. It's, to me at least, yet another smug barb, and I pride myself on having a pretty good sense of the absurd. Most of the time.0 -
Grief can affect people in different ways. What can appear as indifference, may in reality be an inability to come to terms with what has happened.JosiasJessop said:
The mother was jailed for life and served six or so years before the sad truth came out.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. D, there was a case in Australia of a woman found guilty (I forget the precise crime) when she claimed her very young son was snatched by dingoes. Part of the reason was that she wasn't blubbing her eyes out and the jury felt she was cold.
Later evidence proved she'd been telling the truth.
On the matter at hand, I'd be somewhat surprised if he ends up getting confirmed, but we'll see.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Azaria_Chamberlain
There is also the case of Peter Falconio. His girlfriend Joanna Lees survived the attempted kidnapping, but the Australian media ripped the sh*t out of her because she as not emotional enough. She was treated abominably by some of their media. The truth came out later utterly clearing her.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Peter_Falconio
Conversely, some people who appear to be grieving are liars. I remember one man weeping and wailing after the murder of his wife, who had in fact done the job.0 -
Sadly another case of human detritus being dumped on another (sub-)planetary body with no consideration of its fundamental right to exist undisturbed an uncontaminated. Unethical science.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
JAXA have released more images of the surface of asteroid Ryugu. Quite amazing pics - though I haven't seen any sign of the Clangers yet ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-456673500 -
That is a whole new ball game - no deal would be a huge moment and I do not know the parliamentary procedure to stop it other than huge pressure from within the HOC for a remain - leave referendumdixiedean said:
Strangely enough, I find myself agreeing with Archer here. Often hear that Parliament will block No Deal. But, the only way to do that is to vote for a deal. Parliament cannot magically make a deal appear to vote on if none exists.archer101au said:
Parliament has two, and only two options. They can vote for or against any deal presented. Or they can no confidence the Government.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe but the HOC are not going to accept no deal
Nothing else Parliament does will make any difference.
So, how exactly can HofC prevent No Deal, given that we leave in March?
Sorry if the answer is obvious.0 -
Chicken Tikka Massala on Fridays.TOPPING said:
Union Jack boxer shorts hanging on the washing line.welshowl said:
And your evidence for this?williamglenn said:
On average it takes them two months to become more British than the people who live here.TOPPING said:If only we Brits didn't hate foreigners so much a deal would be easy-peasy.
And while we're on the subject, at what point do we deem people who have been living abroad foreigners? Two generations? Two years?
Of course there is none.0 -
The only date I have seen mentioned in January 2019.Morris_Dancer said:Mrs C, any ETA on the Article 50 court case on revocation?
Also Mrs C, in legal terms, a u-turn would be entirely legitimate. But it would create absolutely massive ructions.
No Deal may create absolutely massive ructions Mr Dancer. You pays your money and you takes your choice .....0 -
Absolutely.Sean_F said:
Grief can affect people in different ways. What can appear as indifference, may in reality be an inability to come to terms with what has happened.JosiasJessop said:
The mother was jailed for life and served six or so years before the sad truth came out.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. D, there was a case in Australia of a woman found guilty (I forget the precise crime) when she claimed her very young son was snatched by dingoes. Part of the reason was that she wasn't blubbing her eyes out and the jury felt she was cold.
Later evidence proved she'd been telling the truth.
On the matter at hand, I'd be somewhat surprised if he ends up getting confirmed, but we'll see.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Azaria_Chamberlain
There is also the case of Peter Falconio. His girlfriend Joanna Lees survived the attempted kidnapping, but the Australian media ripped the sh*t out of her because she as not emotional enough. She was treated abominably by some of their media. The truth came out later utterly clearing her.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Peter_Falconio
Conversely, some people who appear to be grieving are liars. I remember one man weeping and wailing after the murder of his wife, who had in fact done the job.0 -
You get that in prison. I knew a serial burglar who regarded it as one of the consolations of being sent back inside.welshowl said:
Chicken Tikka Massala on Fridays.TOPPING said:
Union Jack boxer shorts hanging on the washing line.welshowl said:
And your evidence for this?williamglenn said:
On average it takes them two months to become more British than the people who live here.TOPPING said:If only we Brits didn't hate foreigners so much a deal would be easy-peasy.
And while we're on the subject, at what point do we deem people who have been living abroad foreigners? Two generations? Two years?
Of course there is none.0 -
Mrs C, indeed. But remaining in shouldn't be presented as some sort of minor move or the safe option. Whatever happens going forward, a very significant (perhaps over half) proportion of the population will be displeased, and many will be livid.0
-
As I have been banging on about for some time, it can be argued that we were in a process of decision making under ignorance.Beverley_C said:
Well, we voted on the basis of very incomplete information. The govt could claim, probably with some justification, that in the light of current information, to proceed would be an act of national self-harm and given the schedules involved....welshowl said:
Yes. It could even repeal any Act that had made it non advisory, so to speak.Beverley_C said:
No. She had a ruling that the Executive could not unilaterally request A50 without Parliament's approval.welshowl said:
Except didn't good old Gina Miller make sure it went through as an Act?Beverley_C said:
The referendum was only advisory, it had no legal force. If there was a need Brexit could simply be stopped, parked, A50 suspended or withdrawn and the whole thing dealt with on a reasonable schedule.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. The problem is the wording rather than the timing and the debates on that will be extraordinaryanothernick said:
Indeed. Parliament is sovereign (and always has been, as we know). It could hold a referendum next Friday were it so minded.rpjs said:
DORA 1914 and the Emergency Powers (Defence) Act 1939 both completed all stages in a single day I believe.pbr2013 said:For proponents of a second referendum. There is not enough time.
https://services.parliament.uk/Bills/2015-16/europeanunionreferendum/stages.html
If Parliament had either brains or a spine, they would not have let Mrs May do it without a plan in place first. The referendum is still advisory and what Parliament can grant, Parliament can revoke.
However, at that point we really are off to the races.
Why vote?
Of course no politician could use the word *gn*r*nc* to describe the referendum result but the academic theory is robust to warrant a second referendum (I am still undecided if I want one or not; my instinct is no and to wait for a UK fudge).0 -
Just listened to Martha Kearney's interview with Jeremy Hunt. He really is pathetic. Anyone thinking of putting money on him for next leader should listen to it. Makes the 'quiet man' sound charismaticPhilip_Thompson said:
Are you saying the FT and other papers carrying the same line are all lying? They endorse Chequers as Plan A, they endorse Canada as Plan B.Big_G_NorthWales said:Raab, Javid, Hunt and Gove did not endorse Canada, they endorse Chequers
Independent, Times and others all carrying the same line too.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-cabinet-support-canada-deal-eu-theresa-may-chequers-a8551721.html
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/theresa-may-losing-cabinet-support-for-no-deal-brexit-if-eu-talks-fail-9svwlwztx
What's Plan B?0 -
ICM, fieldwork last weekend:
Conservatives: 41% (down 1 compared to ICM two weeks before)
Labour: 40% (up 1)
Lib Dems: 9% (up 1)
Ukip: 4% (no change)
Greens: 3% (no change)
Also quite a lot on how the two parties and their leaders are seen on key issues
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/sep/27/may-faces-revolt-from-40-tory-mps-if-she-opts-for-canada-brexit-deal-rudd-says-politics-live
16:440 -
Bah humbug. I'll wait for you to go out there with a placard: "JAXA - go away!" Until then, let's keep on sending probesSandyRentool said:
Sadly another case of human detritus being dumped on another (sub-)planetary body with no consideration of its fundamental right to exist undisturbed an uncontaminated. Unethical science.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
JAXA have released more images of the surface of asteroid Ryugu. Quite amazing pics - though I haven't seen any sign of the Clangers yet ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-45667350
This is superb science. We'll learn a great deal, including about how Earth and the other planets formed, and how we might prevent one hitting Earth in the future. I can't wait for OSIRIS-REx to land on Bennu later this year.0 -
Mr. Roger, nonsense. Hunt is an excellent politician who, along with Mordaunt, is destined to be in the final two at the next Conservative leadership contest.
[I may have bets on them both].0 -
And were around 27 years ago to do a number on Anita Hill during the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearing.TheWhiteRabbit said:Hatch and Grassley are two of the longest serving Republican senators.
At the time of the alleged assault, they were both already in the Senate.0 -
Probably is buddy. Kavanugh is a nasty piece of right-wing trash. He is scum - period!RobD said:
Doesn’t make it true.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It does not sound good for Kavanaugh. Emotional testimonyoxfordsimon said:
Dramatic - but I don't buy all of it.Big_G_NorthWales said:Dramatic 'live' testimony from the woman accusing Brett Kavanaugh on Sky
Think this will be big news on boadcast channels tonight and tomorrow.
Doubt Brexit will feature at all0 -
Come on, the pair of you are making these names up aren't you?JosiasJessop said:
Bah humbug. I'll wait for you to go out there with a placard: "JAXA - go away!" Until then, let's keep on sending probesSandyRentool said:
Sadly another case of human detritus being dumped on another (sub-)planetary body with no consideration of its fundamental right to exist undisturbed an uncontaminated. Unethical science.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
JAXA have released more images of the surface of asteroid Ryugu. Quite amazing pics - though I haven't seen any sign of the Clangers yet ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-45667350
This is superb science. We'll learn a great deal, including about how Earth and the other planets formed, and how we might prevent one hitting Earth in the future. I can't wait for OSIRIS-REx to land on Bennu later this year.
0 -
Everything leads to Brexit reversalwelshowl said:
Don't quite follow, if I'm honest.JohnRussell said:
Very good... although I think the detail of your explanation is clear evidence of concern over losing the inevitable 2nd referendumwelshowl said:
William lives in a world, as far as I can tell, where the beat of a butterfly's wings in Papua New Guinea leads down a thought process flow chart, which always goes to a big box at the bottom marked "REMAIN". He's just about refrained for five days from announcing that TM is about to ask for a second referendum, since she stood up on national TV from No 10 and said she wouldn't last Friday, but I note that Sajid Javid, saying the same thing yesterday led straight down the box to "he doesn't mean it".Anorak said:
You realise it's a joke? Please tell me you realise it's a joke.welshowl said:
And your evidence for this?williamglenn said:
On average it takes them two months to become more British than the people who live here.TOPPING said:If only we Brits didn't hate foreigners so much a deal would be easy-peasy.
And while we're on the subject, at what point do we deem people who have been living abroad foreigners? Two generations? Two years?
Of course there is none.
Frankly, no I don't realise it's a joke coming from the source it did, and I doubt it is. It's, to me at least, yet another smug barb, and I pride myself on having a pretty good sense of the absurd. Most of the time.0 -
Can I self-identify as a Ryuguian?JosiasJessop said:
Bah humbug. I'll wait for you to go out there with a placard: "JAXA - go away!" Until then, let's keep on sending probesSandyRentool said:
Sadly another case of human detritus being dumped on another (sub-)planetary body with no consideration of its fundamental right to exist undisturbed an uncontaminated. Unethical science.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
JAXA have released more images of the surface of asteroid Ryugu. Quite amazing pics - though I haven't seen any sign of the Clangers yet ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-45667350
This is superb science. We'll learn a great deal, including about how Earth and the other planets formed, and how we might prevent one hitting Earth in the future. I can't wait for OSIRIS-REx to land on Bennu later this year.0 -
Prize pillocks...the Thick of it and then some.
Team Corbyn are in Brussels today to meet with EU negotiators, poor planning meant they had a little taxi trouble when they realised they had no means to pay.
https://order-order.com/2018/09/27/labour-run-money/0 -
I would respectfully suggest that would be your reaction to any conservativeRoger said:
Just listened to Martha Kearney's interview with Jeremy Hunt. He really is pathetic. Anyone thinking of putting money on him for next leader should listen to it. Makes the 'quiet man' sound charismaticPhilip_Thompson said:
Are you saying the FT and other papers carrying the same line are all lying? They endorse Chequers as Plan A, they endorse Canada as Plan B.Big_G_NorthWales said:Raab, Javid, Hunt and Gove did not endorse Canada, they endorse Chequers
Independent, Times and others all carrying the same line too.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-cabinet-support-canada-deal-eu-theresa-may-chequers-a8551721.html
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/theresa-may-losing-cabinet-support-for-no-deal-brexit-if-eu-talks-fail-9svwlwztx
What's Plan B?0 -
Game of Thrones: SLAB version.
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/10453344988445614090 -
Surely if we get to April it would have to be apply to rejoin/remain out?Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is a whole new ball game - no deal would be a huge moment and I do not know the parliamentary procedure to stop it other than huge pressure from within the HOC for a remain - leave referendumdixiedean said:
Strangely enough, I find myself agreeing with Archer here. Often hear that Parliament will block No Deal. But, the only way to do that is to vote for a deal. Parliament cannot magically make a deal appear to vote on if none exists.archer101au said:
Parliament has two, and only two options. They can vote for or against any deal presented. Or they can no confidence the Government.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe but the HOC are not going to accept no deal
Nothing else Parliament does will make any difference.
So, how exactly can HofC prevent No Deal, given that we leave in March?
Sorry if the answer is obvious.0 -
Since you are a lefty, perhaps you should concentrate on NASA's mission and become a Benn-uiteSandyRentool said:
Can I self-identify as a Ryuguian?JosiasJessop said:
Bah humbug. I'll wait for you to go out there with a placard: "JAXA - go away!" Until then, let's keep on sending probesSandyRentool said:
Sadly another case of human detritus being dumped on another (sub-)planetary body with no consideration of its fundamental right to exist undisturbed an uncontaminated. Unethical science.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
JAXA have released more images of the surface of asteroid Ryugu. Quite amazing pics - though I haven't seen any sign of the Clangers yet ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-45667350
This is superb science. We'll learn a great deal, including about how Earth and the other planets formed, and how we might prevent one hitting Earth in the future. I can't wait for OSIRIS-REx to land on Bennu later this year. 0 -
Looking at the topline numbers, I think the Conservatives are 2-3$ ahead with YouGov.Richard_Nabavi said:ICM, fieldwork last weekend:
Conservatives: 41% (down 1 compared to ICM two weeks before)
Labour: 40% (up 1)
Lib Dems: 9% (up 1)
Ukip: 4% (no change)
Greens: 3% (no change)
Also quite a lot on how the two parties and their leaders are seen on key issues
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/sep/27/may-faces-revolt-from-40-tory-mps-if-she-opts-for-canada-brexit-deal-rudd-says-politics-live
16:440 -
It seems pretty static TBH, with the Conservatives a little ahead.Sean_F said:
Looking at the topline numbers, I think the Conservatives are 2-3$ ahead with YouGov.Richard_Nabavi said:ICM, fieldwork last weekend:
Conservatives: 41% (down 1 compared to ICM two weeks before)
Labour: 40% (up 1)
Lib Dems: 9% (up 1)
Ukip: 4% (no change)
Greens: 3% (no change)
Also quite a lot on how the two parties and their leaders are seen on key issues
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/sep/27/may-faces-revolt-from-40-tory-mps-if-she-opts-for-canada-brexit-deal-rudd-says-politics-live
16:440 -
AlastairMeeks said:
Come on, the pair of you are making these names up aren't you?JosiasJessop said:
Bah humbug. I'll wait for you to go out there with a placard: "JAXA - go away!" Until then, let's keep on sending probesSandyRentool said:
Sadly another case of human detritus being dumped on another (sub-)planetary body with no consideration of its fundamental right to exist undisturbed an uncontaminated. Unethical science.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
JAXA have released more images of the surface of asteroid Ryugu. Quite amazing pics - though I haven't seen any sign of the Clangers yet ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-45667350
This is superb science. We'll learn a great deal, including about how Earth and the other planets formed, and how we might prevent one hitting Earth in the future. I can't wait for OSIRIS-REx to land on Bennu later this year.
OSIRIS-REx stads for the "Origins, Spectral Interpretation, Resource Identification, Security, Regolith Explorer" (and of course I had to look that up on Wiki). Ages ago I listened to a podcast where a team member talked about the trouble they had trying to make up its name...0 -
Is it really surprising? For her personal experience (which she says she was affected by for many years) the time and places were basically irrelevant, and not likely to be something that was committed to memory (short of those things having some other significance to her - eg. her birthday). It wasn't as if she was ever expecting to be required to produce them (if she did she might have gone to the police many years ago). If she had a diary of course...oxfordsimon said:
I know memory is a very difficult thing but I was struck by how precise she was able to be with regards to the boys 'pinballing' down the stair well - but couldn't remember the location or date of the incident.RobD said:
Doesn’t make it true.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It does not sound good for Kavanaugh. Emotional testimonyoxfordsimon said:
Dramatic - but I don't buy all of it.Big_G_NorthWales said:Dramatic 'live' testimony from the woman accusing Brett Kavanaugh on Sky
Think this will be big news on boadcast channels tonight and tomorrow.
Doubt Brexit will feature at all
I'm sure i'm no different from most people in being able to recall (to my mind accurately) surprising detail for events which happened many, many years ago. But there is usually a level of extra deduction to be carried out to work out when they happen (even working out the year is sometimes difficult enough).
In some ways the best defence for Kavanaugh might have been that the event might have happened but it was a case of misremembered/mistaken identity. This has been somewhat undermined by the other individuals coming forward suggesting this was no so far fetched from a pattern of his behaviour at the time.
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