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  • Well there we are then

    At least the process has now been tested and seems to work - even if it didn't bring about a by-election.

    There are many MPs who are lucky that this process didn't exist until recently. And there are a good number who might well face this in the future. Including at least on a front bench.
  • GIN1138 said:

    So basically this "talking head" has no idea what's going to happen and is hedging his bets. :D
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQiOA7euaYA
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,926
    edited September 2018
    Of course, from a trainspotting stand-point, Northern Ireland is a "foreign land" as William Hague might have once said. They use the broad gauge 5ft 3 in track, just like wot they they use in the Republic, as opposed to 4ft 8.5 in standard gauge used almost everywhere on the National Rail and Light Rail networks in GB, as well as on the Continent. Also, because of the gauge difference, there is no fixed rail link between GB and NI.

    In other news, captured - on film! - Barton-on-Humber to Habrough, and Craven Arms to Llanelli this week.
  • Of course, from a trainspotting stand-point, Northern Ireland is a "foreign land" as William Hague might have once said. They use the broad gauge 5ft 3 in track, just like wot they they use in the Republic, as opposed to 4ft 8.5 in standard gauge used almost everywhere on the National Rail and Light Rail networks in GB, as well as on the Continent. Also, because of the gauge difference, there is no fixed rail link between GB and NI.

    Ah, I knew there'd be a reason. :)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584
    Trump is either a sophisticated ironist, or even more of a cretin tha I took him for...
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/19/donald-trump-urged-spain-to-build-the-wall-across-the-sahara
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Nigelb said:

    Trump is either a sophisticated ironist, or even more of a cretin tha I took him for...
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/19/donald-trump-urged-spain-to-build-the-wall-across-the-sahara

    Choose the odd one:
    electron, proton, positron, moron
  • Nigelb said:

    Trump is either a sophisticated ironist, or even more of a cretin tha I took him for...
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/19/donald-trump-urged-spain-to-build-the-wall-across-the-sahara

    He's both, he's a mimetic idiot savant
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,776

    I don't know about you, but I find the thought of 42 year-old prime ministers reasonably depressing in much the same vein as I find 38 year-old cricketers and racing drivers desperately reassuring...
    I once tried to come up with a list of the good points about Mrs May being PM. Very prominent on it was that I now had a PM older than me again which is surely as it should be. Tbh there wasn’t much else on the list but that was an important point, I thought.
  • Nigelb said:

    Trump is either a sophisticated ironist, or even more of a cretin tha I took him for...
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/19/donald-trump-urged-spain-to-build-the-wall-across-the-sahara

    He's both, he's a mimetic idiot savant
    Whatever Trump is, it might not be the best diplomacy for foreign governments to appear to ridicule the American president. If Trump says something stupid, keep schtum, should be the motto of the diplomatic corps.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,768
    edited September 2018
    @Sunil_Prasannan

    Tip - the scenery on the north side of the Central Wales line is much more spectacular.

    However, it's a bugger to try and work out when you're crossing the Cynghordy viaduct looking north. It's easier when facing south.
  • DavidL said:

    I don't know about you, but I find the thought of 42 year-old prime ministers reasonably depressing in much the same vein as I find 38 year-old cricketers and racing drivers desperately reassuring...
    I once tried to come up with a list of the good points about Mrs May being PM. Very prominent on it was that I now had a PM older than me again which is surely as it should be. Tbh there wasn’t much else on the list but that was an important point, I thought.
    given the geriatric nature of English politics I suspect this situation is likely to continue....
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Apparently, we're in for a deluge. I'm sure the dog will not be amused.

    On the Lib Dems: good to hear that apparently Cable's deranged leadership election ideas went down terribly. Maybe there's hope for the yellows after all.
  • Mortimer said:

    Apols posted this as @Billy_No_Mates on the previous thread when everyone had switched to this one without telling me :disappointed:

    Assuming, as I currently do, that a modified Chequers is agreed with the EU and then presented for approval to parliament, what are the chances that TMay will make it a confidence issue?

    And if she does will the ERG still vote against in sufficient numbers to bring the Government down?

    Or will she hope to draw sufficient Labour rebel support if she does not make it a confidence issue?

    Just asking.

    0% - issues cannot be made confidence votes since introduction of the FTPA.
    Really? Someone should tell JRM:

    "Rees-Mogg confirmed that he would vote against the Chequers deal in the Commons but that he hoped the government would not make it a confidence matter, adding that to conflate the two would be a mistake."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/11/brexiters-jacob-rees-mogg-no-deal-chuck-chequers
    She can make it a confidence issue in herself, but not in the Government.

    The people that can make it a confidence issue in the Government are the DUP.

    Even if a no confidence motion is passed, there are still 14 days to reverse it. It is a bit ambiguous but in theory May could lose a VONC, resign as PM and another MP (a Tory in this case) could form a Government and win a VONC within 14 days. This may be relevant if the DUP vote out May over the backstop. The PM does not have to be leader of the Conservative Party.

    May might threaten to call a GE if she loses her deal, but she can’t.
    If this is correct, then TMay loses the DUP and we have a minority Tory government which surely won't last long.
    "Under proposals to be brought forward by the UK government, Britain is expected to accept some checks taking place between Northern Ireland and Great Britain."
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-northern-ireland-irish-border-backstop-customs-regulatory-checks-theresa-may-salzburg-a8545701.html
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    Apols if posted before:

    Brexit Doomsayer Ryanair Forges Ahead With U.K. Expansion Plan

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-12/brexit-doomsayer-ryanair-forges-ahead-with-u-k-expansion-plan

    O leary is spending so much time talking politicis hes screwing up his air line. Unions now have him by the balls and are hitting with strikes. Theres another big one coming up in Germany on Friday.

    really he's past his sell by date
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    What an utterly crap splash. One bloke who knows Theresa May says Chequers is dead. Hands up who has never heard of Sir Mike Penning?
    Yup. If she’s losing Penning, she’s struggling.

    Why he is one of the IDS acolytes! Penning is anti-EU from his head to his toes. His comments mean nothing in terms of general thoughts of Tory MPs. Embarrassing for Penning that he backed Theresa for leadership outside the H of C in 2016. I remember the picture.
    He is a loyalist.

    He worked for Hague, IDS, and was junior minister under Camo and May.

    If she’s losing loyalists, she’s struggling.
    He was an IDS zealot. My paths have crossed with him in the past and I have taken interest in his political career ever since, I hardly call being the spin doctor for the Maastricht backbench rebellion mainstream. You are talking nonsense.
    I don’t think you understand the backbenches. Especially the loyalist brigade, which makes up the majority of them.

    All I am saying is he is not mainstream. His political career has been and gone. What has he got to be loyal about? As I said I have encountered him many years ago and I have taken an interest in how things developed for him since. He is an anti - Europe zealot. Maastricht MP rebellion adviser, agent for Teddy Taylor in the past. This is not mainstream opinion.
    That is mainstream opinion ....... in Mortimer’s house.
    It seems it’s mainstream in someone else’s house too.
    https://twitter.com/stevebakerhw/status/1042530515323183105?s=21
    Orla Kiely gone.

    Mrs Foxy disappointed, she rather likes her prints. She couldn't rerun the same ones endlessly though.

    Its going to be a tough winter on the High St, I think.
  • Apols if posted before:

    Brexit Doomsayer Ryanair Forges Ahead With U.K. Expansion Plan

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-12/brexit-doomsayer-ryanair-forges-ahead-with-u-k-expansion-plan

    O leary is spending so much time talking politicis hes screwing up his air line. Unions now have him by the balls and are hitting with strikes. Theres another big one coming up in Germany on Friday.

    really he's past his sell by date
    The board is not much use either:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/19/ryanair-facing-mounting-backlash-annual-shareholder-meeting
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,723
    DavidL said:

    I don't know about you, but I find the thought of 42 year-old prime ministers reasonably depressing in much the same vein as I find 38 year-old cricketers and racing drivers desperately reassuring...
    I once tried to come up with a list of the good points about Mrs May being PM. Very prominent on it was that I now had a PM older than me again which is surely as it should be. Tbh there wasn’t much else on the list but that was an important point, I thought.
    It’s depressing when you realise you’ve grandchildren older than ‘established England cricketers’!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082

    Apols if posted before:

    Brexit Doomsayer Ryanair Forges Ahead With U.K. Expansion Plan

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-12/brexit-doomsayer-ryanair-forges-ahead-with-u-k-expansion-plan

    O leary is spending so much time talking politicis hes screwing up his air line. Unions now have him by the balls and are hitting with strikes. Theres another big one coming up in Germany on Friday.

    really he's past his sell by date
    Pissing off his pilots was not clever, but no one buys tickets on an unreliable air line, and the new carry on luggage rules are a turn off too.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469

    May's position seems to be that her Chequers proposal has been pronounced dead. As a dodo or otherwise.

    She cannot accept anything less than Chequers, because her party will support neither it nor her - which ends up with the EU talking to Boris or somesuch, and most likely they will get a diamond hard Brexit and no cash.

    So the EU is left in the position of having to offer her something MORE than she asked for.

    Which, if that was her intended position all along, then as a negotiator, I have to take my hat off to her. But I just can't believe it was that thought out - or that it is very likely to be delivered...

    I keep remembering Graeme Chapman trying to persuade John Cleese that the Norwegian Blue Parrot is still alive....

    https://youtu.be/PpTI6SACDP0
  • Foxy said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    What an utterly crap splash. One bloke who knows Theresa May says Chequers is dead. Hands up who has never heard of Sir Mike Penning?
    Yup. If she’s losing Penning, she’s struggling.

    Why he is one of the IDS acolytes! Penning is anti-EU from his head to his toes. His comments mean nothing in terms of general thoughts of Tory MPs. Embarrassing for Penning that he backed Theresa for leadership outside the H of C in 2016. I remember the picture.
    He is a loyalist.

    He worked for Hague, IDS, and was junior minister under Camo and May.

    If she’s losing loyalists, she’s struggling.
    He was an IDS zealot. My paths have crossed with him in the past and I have taken interest in his political career ever since, I hardly call being the spin doctor for the Maastricht backbench rebellion mainstream. You are talking nonsense.
    I don’t think you understand the backbenches. Especially the loyalist brigade, which makes up the majority of them.

    All I am saying is he is not mainstream. His political career has been and gone. What has he got to be loyal about? As I said I have encountered him many years ago and I have taken an interest in how things developed for him since. He is an anti - Europe zealot. Maastricht MP rebellion adviser, agent for Teddy Taylor in the past. This is not mainstream opinion.
    That is mainstream opinion ....... in Mortimer’s house.
    It seems it’s mainstream in someone else’s house too.
    https://twitter.com/stevebakerhw/status/1042530515323183105?s=21
    Orla Kiely gone.
    It says something about the state of their business that they went straight to liquidation rather than try administration first.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,723
    Foxy said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    What an utterly crap splash. One bloke who knows Theresa May says Chequers is dead. Hands up who has never heard of Sir Mike Penning?
    Yup. If she’s losing Penning, she’s struggling.

    Why he is one of the IDS acolytes! Penning is anti-EU from his head to his toes. His comments mean nothing in terms of general thoughts of Tory MPs. Embarrassing for Penning that he backed Theresa for leadership outside the H of C in 2016. I remember the picture.
    He is a loyalist.

    He worked for Hague, IDS, and was junior minister under Camo and May.

    If she’s losing loyalists, she’s struggling.
    He was an IDS zealot. My paths have crossed with him in the past and I have taken interest in his political career ever since, I hardly call being the spin doctor for the Maastricht backbench rebellion mainstream. You are talking nonsense.
    I don’t think you understand the backbenches. Especially the loyalist brigade, which makes up the majority of them.

    All I am saying is he is not mainstream. His political career has been and gone. What has he got to be loyal about? As I said I have encountered him many years ago and I have taken an interest in how things developed for him since. He is an anti - Europe zealot. Maastricht MP rebellion adviser, agent for Teddy Taylor in the past. This is not mainstream opinion.
    That is mainstream opinion ....... in Mortimer’s house.
    It seems it’s mainstream in someone else’s house too.
    https://twitter.com/stevebakerhw/status/1042530515323183105?s=21
    Orla Kiely gone.

    Mrs Foxy disappointed, she rather likes her prints. She couldn't rerun the same ones endlessly though.

    Its going to be a tough winter on the High St, I think.
    We had a House of Fraser gift card for buying some insurance. We haven’t used it yet, so it’s gone in for exchange. Hmmm.

    However it took so long to come through that we'd complained and the insurance company gave us a cheque as compensation for the wait.

    So we’re not really out of pocket.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    edited September 2018
    Foxy said:

    Apols if posted before:

    Brexit Doomsayer Ryanair Forges Ahead With U.K. Expansion Plan

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-12/brexit-doomsayer-ryanair-forges-ahead-with-u-k-expansion-plan

    O leary is spending so much time talking politicis hes screwing up his air line. Unions now have him by the balls and are hitting with strikes. Theres another big one coming up in Germany on Friday.

    really he's past his sell by date
    Pissing off his pilots was not clever, but no one buys tickets on an unreliable air line, and the new carry on luggage rules are a turn off too.
    I think thats maybe the bigger problem, all my family now put Ryanair in the "if theres none else " category. Theres only so much crap people will take and O Learys cheeky chappy shtick has long worn off.
  • Foxy said:

    Apols if posted before:

    Brexit Doomsayer Ryanair Forges Ahead With U.K. Expansion Plan

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-12/brexit-doomsayer-ryanair-forges-ahead-with-u-k-expansion-plan

    O leary is spending so much time talking politicis hes screwing up his air line. Unions now have him by the balls and are hitting with strikes. Theres another big one coming up in Germany on Friday.

    really he's past his sell by date
    Pissing off his pilots was not clever, but no one buys tickets on an unreliable air line, and the new carry on luggage rules are a turn off too.
    I think thats maybe the bigger problem, all my family now put Ryanair in the "if theres none else " category. Theres only so much crap people will take and O Learys cheeky chappy shtick has long worn off.
    Ryanair is the pineapple on pizza of airlines.

    I'm fairly certain when people go to hell they go on Ryanair.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Foxy said:

    Apols if posted before:

    Brexit Doomsayer Ryanair Forges Ahead With U.K. Expansion Plan

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-12/brexit-doomsayer-ryanair-forges-ahead-with-u-k-expansion-plan

    O leary is spending so much time talking politicis hes screwing up his air line. Unions now have him by the balls and are hitting with strikes. Theres another big one coming up in Germany on Friday.

    really he's past his sell by date
    Pissing off his pilots was not clever, but no one buys tickets on an unreliable air line, and the new carry on luggage rules are a turn off too.
    They are going to have the same problems this winter they had last winter with pilot shortages. M O’L is already scraping around for what the public reasons are going to be, but pilots are leaving in droves - including the hard-to-replace captains and trainers, who are fed up with being treated the same way as the customers.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    Merkels government appears to be going through yet another crisis as she tries to keep the SPD and CSU in the same room.

    https://www.welt.de/politik/article181593368/Kramp-Karrenbauer-Auseinanderbrechen-der-Regierung-stand-konkret-im-Raum.html
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    edited September 2018

    Foxy said:

    Apols if posted before:

    Brexit Doomsayer Ryanair Forges Ahead With U.K. Expansion Plan

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-12/brexit-doomsayer-ryanair-forges-ahead-with-u-k-expansion-plan

    O leary is spending so much time talking politicis hes screwing up his air line. Unions now have him by the balls and are hitting with strikes. Theres another big one coming up in Germany on Friday.

    really he's past his sell by date
    Pissing off his pilots was not clever, but no one buys tickets on an unreliable air line, and the new carry on luggage rules are a turn off too.
    I think thats maybe the bigger problem, all my family now put Ryanair in the "if theres none else " category. Theres only so much crap people will take and O Learys cheeky chappy shtick has long worn off.
    Ryanair is the pineapple on pizza of airlines.

    I'm fairly certain when people go to hell they go on Ryanair.
    but thats a good thing

    youll arrive late or have your trip cancelled :-)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,768
    OchEye said:

    May's position seems to be that her Chequers proposal has been pronounced dead. As a dodo or otherwise.

    She cannot accept anything less than Chequers, because her party will support neither it nor her - which ends up with the EU talking to Boris or somesuch, and most likely they will get a diamond hard Brexit and no cash.

    So the EU is left in the position of having to offer her something MORE than she asked for.

    Which, if that was her intended position all along, then as a negotiator, I have to take my hat off to her. But I just can't believe it was that thought out - or that it is very likely to be delivered...

    I keep remembering Graeme Chapman trying to persuade John Cleese that the Norwegian Blue Parrot is still alive....
    That's Michael Palin.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,768
    edited September 2018

    Foxy said:

    Apols if posted before:

    Brexit Doomsayer Ryanair Forges Ahead With U.K. Expansion Plan

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-12/brexit-doomsayer-ryanair-forges-ahead-with-u-k-expansion-plan

    O leary is spending so much time talking politicis hes screwing up his air line. Unions now have him by the balls and are hitting with strikes. Theres another big one coming up in Germany on Friday.

    really he's past his sell by date
    Pissing off his pilots was not clever, but no one buys tickets on an unreliable air line, and the new carry on luggage rules are a turn off too.
    I think thats maybe the bigger problem, all my family now put Ryanair in the "if theres none else " category. Theres only so much crap people will take and O Learys cheeky chappy shtick has long worn off.
    Ryanair is the pineapple on pizza of airlines.

    I'm fairly certain when people go to hell they go on Ryanair.
    but thats a good thing

    youll arrive late or have your trip cancelled :-)
    A political activist named Dave was just arriving in Hell, and was told he had a choice to make. He could go to Capitalist Hell or to Communist Hell.

    Naturally, Dave wanted to compare the two, so he wandered over to Capitalist Hell. There outside the door was Rockerfeller [sic] looking bored. "What's it like in there?" asked Dave. "Well," he replied , "In Capitalist Hell, they flay you alive, boil you in oil, chain you to a rock and let a vulture tear your liver out, and cut you up into small pieces with sharp knives."

    "That's terrible!!" gasped Dave. "I'm going to check out Communist Hell!" He went over to Communist Hell, where he discovered a huge line of people waiting to get in; the line circled around the lobby seven times before receding off into the horizon. Dave pushed his way through to the head of the line, where he found Karl Marx busily signing people in. Dave asked Karl what Communist Hell was like.

    "In Communist Hell," said Marx impatiently, "they flay you alive, boil you in oil, chain you to a rock and let vultures tear out your liver, and cut you up into small pieces with sharp knives."

    "But ... but that's the same as Capitalist Hell!" protested Dave.

    "True," sighed Marx, "but sometimes we don't have oil, sometimes we don't have knives ..."
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Apols if posted before:

    Brexit Doomsayer Ryanair Forges Ahead With U.K. Expansion Plan

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-12/brexit-doomsayer-ryanair-forges-ahead-with-u-k-expansion-plan

    O leary is spending so much time talking politicis hes screwing up his air line. Unions now have him by the balls and are hitting with strikes. Theres another big one coming up in Germany on Friday.

    really he's past his sell by date
    Pissing off his pilots was not clever, but no one buys tickets on an unreliable air line, and the new carry on luggage rules are a turn off too.
    I think thats maybe the bigger problem, all my family now put Ryanair in the "if theres none else " category. Theres only so much crap people will take and O Learys cheeky chappy shtick has long worn off.
    Ryanair is the pineapple on pizza of airlines.

    I'm fairly certain when people go to hell they go on Ryanair.
    but thats a good thing

    youll arrive late or have your trip cancelled :-)
    A political activist named Dave was just arriving in Hell, and was told he had a choice to make. He could go to Capitalist Hell or to Communist Hell.

    Naturally, Dave wanted to compare the two, so he wandered over to Capitalist Hell. There outside the door was Rockerfeller [sic] looking bored. "What's it like in there?" asked Dave. "Well," he replied , "In Capitalist Hell, they flay you alive, boil you in oil, chain you to a rock and let a vulture tear your liver out, and cut you up into small pieces with sharp knives."

    "That's terrible!!" gasped Dave. "I'm going to check out Communist Hell!" He went over to Communist Hell, where he discovered a huge line of people waiting to get in; the line circled around the lobby seven times before receding off into the horizon. Dave pushed his way through to the head of the line, where he found Karl Marx busily signing people in. Dave asked Karl what Communist Hell was like.

    "In Communist Hell," said Marx impatiently, "they flay you alive, boil you in oil, chain you to a rock and let vultures tear out your liver, and cut you up into small pieces with sharp knives."

    "But ... but that's the same as Capitalist Hell!" protested Dave.

    "True," sighed Marx, "but sometimes we don't have oil, sometimes we don't have knives ..."
    LOL
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited September 2018

    Foxy said:

    Apols if posted before:

    Brexit Doomsayer Ryanair Forges Ahead With U.K. Expansion Plan

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-12/brexit-doomsayer-ryanair-forges-ahead-with-u-k-expansion-plan

    O leary is spending so much time talking politicis hes screwing up his air line. Unions now have him by the balls and are hitting with strikes. Theres another big one coming up in Germany on Friday.

    really he's past his sell by date
    Pissing off his pilots was not clever, but no one buys tickets on an unreliable air line, and the new carry on luggage rules are a turn off too.
    I think thats maybe the bigger problem, all my family now put Ryanair in the "if theres none else " category. Theres only so much crap people will take and O Learys cheeky chappy shtick has long worn off.
    Ryanair is the pineapple on pizza of airlines.

    I'm fairly certain when people go to hell they go on Ryanair.
    but thats a good thing

    youll arrive late or have your trip cancelled :-)
    I suspect they are the airline service from purgatory to heaven. One last pain (1000 year flight delay followed by 2 hrs of meh) before finally arriving 1million miles from your destination (and yes you are walking the rest of the way).

    Oh and if Ryanair is the only option I fly somewhere else..
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    edited September 2018

    Foxy said:

    Apols if posted before:

    Brexit Doomsayer Ryanair Forges Ahead With U.K. Expansion Plan

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-12/brexit-doomsayer-ryanair-forges-ahead-with-u-k-expansion-plan

    O leary is spending so much time talking politicis hes screwing up his air line. Unions now have him by the balls and are hitting with strikes. Theres another big one coming up in Germany on Friday.

    really he's past his sell by date
    Pissing off his pilots was not clever, but no one buys tickets on an unreliable air line, and the new carry on luggage rules are a turn off too.
    I think thats maybe the bigger problem, all my family now put Ryanair in the "if theres none else " category. Theres only so much crap people will take and O Learys cheeky chappy shtick has long worn off.
    It once took me longer to get from Bergamo, Italy to London on Ryanair than it does from Singapore to London. And the public transport options at Stansted at 2am aren't exactly great either....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,776

    DavidL said:

    I don't know about you, but I find the thought of 42 year-old prime ministers reasonably depressing in much the same vein as I find 38 year-old cricketers and racing drivers desperately reassuring...
    I once tried to come up with a list of the good points about Mrs May being PM. Very prominent on it was that I now had a PM older than me again which is surely as it should be. Tbh there wasn’t much else on the list but that was an important point, I thought.
    given the geriatric nature of English politics I suspect this situation is likely to continue....
    Hopefully not with Corbyn though!

    It really is time for the next generation of clever 40 odd year olds to break through on both sides of the aisle with some new thinking, even at the price of making me feel older.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,768
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Apols if posted before:

    Brexit Doomsayer Ryanair Forges Ahead With U.K. Expansion Plan

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-12/brexit-doomsayer-ryanair-forges-ahead-with-u-k-expansion-plan

    O leary is spending so much time talking politicis hes screwing up his air line. Unions now have him by the balls and are hitting with strikes. Theres another big one coming up in Germany on Friday.

    really he's past his sell by date
    Pissing off his pilots was not clever, but no one buys tickets on an unreliable air line, and the new carry on luggage rules are a turn off too.
    I think thats maybe the bigger problem, all my family now put Ryanair in the "if theres none else " category. Theres only so much crap people will take and O Learys cheeky chappy shtick has long worn off.
    Ryanair is the pineapple on pizza of airlines.

    I'm fairly certain when people go to hell they go on Ryanair.
    but thats a good thing

    youll arrive late or have your trip cancelled :-)
    I suspect they are the airline service from purgatory to heaven. One last pain (1000 year flight delay followed by 2 hrs of meh) before finally arriving 1million miles from your destination (and yes you are walking the rest of the way).

    Oh and if Ryanair is the only option I fly somewhere else..
    So definitely the airline you want on your way to hell! :smiley:
  • ydoethur said:

    @Sunil_Prasannan

    Tip - the scenery on the north side of the Central Wales line is much more spectacular.

    However, it's a bugger to try and work out when you're crossing the Cynghordy viaduct looking north. It's easier when facing south.

    A 143-mile path has just opened following that line, with the stations used to split it up into sections. It's on my to-do list; not that I'll get much time for the foreseeable future... :(

    https://walkersarewelcome.org.uk/2016/09/the-heart-of-wales-line-trail/
  • Champagne sales are down too - on R4 the chap from Champagne reckoned it could only be because the British are gloomy because of Brexit....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,723
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Apols if posted before:

    Brexit Doomsayer Ryanair Forges Ahead With U.K. Expansion Plan

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-12/brexit-doomsayer-ryanair-forges-ahead-with-u-k-expansion-plan

    O leary is spending so much time talking politicis hes screwing up his air line. Unions now have him by the balls and are hitting with strikes. Theres another big one coming up in Germany on Friday.

    really he's past his sell by date
    Pissing off his pilots was not clever, but no one buys tickets on an unreliable air line, and the new carry on luggage rules are a turn off too.
    I think thats maybe the bigger problem, all my family now put Ryanair in the "if theres none else " category. Theres only so much crap people will take and O Learys cheeky chappy shtick has long worn off.
    Ryanair is the pineapple on pizza of airlines.

    I'm fairly certain when people go to hell they go on Ryanair.
    but thats a good thing

    youll arrive late or have your trip cancelled :-)
    I suspect they are the airline service from purgatory to heaven. One last pain (1000 year flight delay followed by 2 hrs of meh) before finally arriving 1million miles from your destination (and yes you are walking the rest of the way).

    Oh and if Ryanair is the only option I fly somewhere else..
    So definitely the airline you want on your way to hell! :smiley:
    Last ‘out’ Ryanair trip, to the Canaries, I sat next to an Italian chap who’d decided to take his girl-friend to the Canaries, on a whim it seemed, and the best way was Bologna>Stansted>Lanzarote.
    Trip out was OK, TBH, but coming back we were an age getting off the plane, and a further age getting our case at Stansted. Not Ryanair’s fault.
    TBH I find Ryanair OK if you read the rules carefully. We normally take one case between us and pay to put it in the hold. Then on the p[lane we’ve my (deep and many) pockets and my wife’s handbag.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    Champagne sales are down too - on R4 the chap from Champagne reckoned it could only be because the British are gloomy because of Brexit....
    nothing to do with overpriced grape juice then
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,265
    Regardless of what one thinks about Brexit or immigration, it's worth reading this:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/19/romanians-in-london-brexit-immigration-photo-essay

    At a purely human, non-political level we are setting up some real tragedies if we don't make more effort to ensure that whatever is offered to existing foreign workers is actually made known to them.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    And there are many little visa scams operating out there for cash rich migrants. Here’s one. Entrepreneur visa scam. A third party organise a series of retail units in a shopping centre. You invest £200k. They set up the business in the shopping centre they’ve had a part in developimg. Your £200k investment gives you a three year visa. That three year visa can be extended for another two years. For this you can also bring your entire direct family. Wife and kids, for a one off fee both adults pay a £200 health surcharge, allowing free access to nhs. You now have your family, free schooling and free health care for five years, and a viable business set up, for the princely sum of £200,000. This is happening on an industrial scale.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    Regardless of what one thinks about Brexit or immigration, it's worth reading this:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/19/romanians-in-london-brexit-immigration-photo-essay

    At a purely human, non-political level we are setting up some real tragedies if we don't make more effort to ensure that whatever is offered to existing foreign workers is actually made known to them.

    Will the number of Romanian Big Issue sellers reduce in my town centre after Brexit?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,265
    Making a distinction between regulatory checks (acceptable) and customs checks (no, of course not) is quite good politics. 99% of the GB population will feel that if that's the worst result of Brexit, they can live with it. The people who will object are primarily the DUP plus some Conservative ideologues, but are either prepared to bring the Government down over it?
  • Making a distinction between regulatory checks (acceptable) and customs checks (no, of course not) is quite good politics. 99% of the GB population will feel that if that's the worst result of Brexit, they can live with it. The people who will object are primarily the DUP plus some Conservative ideologues, but are either prepared to bring the Government down over it?
    DUP may well.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    I guess all the people whinging about Ryanair would continue to pay £400 (with no flexibility or one way options) to fly on legacy carriers. I book perhaps 100 flights a year with Ryanair - they are usually on time and effective.
  • matt said:

    I guess all the people whinging about Ryanair would continue to pay £400 (with no flexibility or one way options) to fly on legacy carriers. I book perhaps 100 flights a year with Ryanair - they are usually on time and effective.

    The 'legacy carriers' are sometimes cheaper than RyanAir when you include things like luggage/cost of getting to airport. I hope you shop around.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6pj3Fdbwng
  • notme said:

    and a viable business set up

    As scams go this seems like a pretty good outcome for everybody...
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    matt said:

    I guess all the people whinging about Ryanair would continue to pay £400 (with no flexibility or one way options) to fly on legacy carriers. I book perhaps 100 flights a year with Ryanair - they are usually on time and effective.

    The 'legacy carriers' are sometimes cheaper than RyanAir when you include things like luggage/cost of getting to airport. I hope you shop around.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6pj3Fdbwng
    At E15 per flight, I doubt it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    notme said:

    And there are many little visa scams operating out there for cash rich migrants. Here’s one. Entrepreneur visa scam. A third party organise a series of retail units in a shopping centre. You invest £200k. They set up the business in the shopping centre they’ve had a part in developimg. Your £200k investment gives you a three year visa. That three year visa can be extended for another two years. For this you can also bring your entire direct family. Wife and kids, for a one off fee both adults pay a £200 health surcharge, allowing free access to nhs. You now have your family, free schooling and free health care for five years, and a viable business set up, for the princely sum of £200,000. This is happening on an industrial scale.
    At least those migrants are contributors, and generally look after themselves. Worse are the abuses of spousal visas. For example, three men club together and buy an old taxi, set up a company to run it 24/7. One of the men declares most of the money as his income, the other two claim to work 16 hours a week driving and claim tax credits etc. After a couple of years the one “earning” the money can sponsor his wife/cousin to join him - at which point he swaps positions with one of the other men, who a couple of years later can sponsor his wife/cousin etc...

    Meanwhile a Brit living abroad who meets and marries someone can’t simply bring her to live with him in the U.K., even if he is a higher-rate taxpayer. Grr...
  • Don't see how she survives that concession.

    The letters will go in the moment that is confirmed.
    Wow. The impossible force meets the immovable object.

    We cannot maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement without a border free Ireland.

    We cannot have a border free Ireland and quit the EEA

    We cannot have a deal without the agreement of the EU and governments who will not agree to any deal that does not maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement.

    So we either remain in the EEA (end of May's government) or we get no deal (end of May's government).
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    Danske Bank facing a €540m fine for money laundering

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/danske-bank-droht-millionenstrafe-wegen-geldwaesche-skandal-15796310.html

    CEO gone shares heavily down

    This is NIs second biggest bank and can issue sterling funny money notes
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    matt said:

    I guess all the people whinging about Ryanair would continue to pay £400 (with no flexibility or one way options) to fly on legacy carriers. I book perhaps 100 flights a year with Ryanair - they are usually on time and effective.

    I have a rule whereby I’ll fly Ryanair only if it’s £100 cheaper than alternatives.

    I’ve flown Ryanair once in 4 years, to Dublin.

    BA, Flybe and EasyJet are my usuals for flying now - I travel largely within the UK/Europe.
  • Don't see how she survives that concession.

    The letters will go in the moment that is confirmed.
    Wow. The impossible force meets the immovable object.

    We cannot maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement without a border free Ireland.

    We cannot have a border free Ireland and quit the EEA

    We cannot have a deal without the agreement of the EU and governments who will not agree to any deal that does not maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement.

    So we either remain in the EEA (end of May's government) or we get no deal (end of May's government).
    And then what
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,723
    matt said:

    matt said:

    I guess all the people whinging about Ryanair would continue to pay £400 (with no flexibility or one way options) to fly on legacy carriers. I book perhaps 100 flights a year with Ryanair - they are usually on time and effective.

    The 'legacy carriers' are sometimes cheaper than RyanAir when you include things like luggage/cost of getting to airport. I hope you shop around.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6pj3Fdbwng
    At E15 per flight, I doubt it.
    One usually either has to pay to get to the airport or pay for parking once there. Unless flying business, and is it really worth paying that for an hour or so’s flight?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Mortimer said:

    matt said:

    I guess all the people whinging about Ryanair would continue to pay £400 (with no flexibility or one way options) to fly on legacy carriers. I book perhaps 100 flights a year with Ryanair - they are usually on time and effective.

    I have a rule whereby I’ll fly Ryanair only if it’s £100 cheaper than alternatives.

    I’ve flown Ryanair once in 4 years, to Dublin.

    BA, Flybe and EasyJet are my usuals for flying now - I travel largely within the UK/Europe.
    FlyBe are great for U.K. domestic. Small planes, small airports, much less hassle overall.
  • Has there ever been a more incompetent and useless Minister than Chris Grayling. If we had a functioning government he would have been fired ages ago. He agrees there is a problem with the railways and his answer is a 12 month enquiry into the way forward.

    If he was not a leaver and a friend of TM and we were not overwhelmed by Brexit he would be toast.

    It is so depressing
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited September 2018

    Danske Bank facing a €540m fine for money laundering

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/danske-bank-droht-millionenstrafe-wegen-geldwaesche-skandal-15796310.html

    CEO gone shares heavily down

    This is NIs second biggest bank and can issue sterling funny money notes

    My go to entertainment in Denmark is to go into a small branch with NI notes and ask for them to be exchanged into Krone... The airport branch and a lot of Kopenhagen branch staff now know that Danske issue UK bank notes, other places still don't...
  • Has there ever been a more incompetent and useless Minister than Chris Grayling. If we had a functioning government he would have been fired ages ago. He agrees there is a problem with the railways and his answer is a 12 month enquiry into the way forward.

    If he was not a leaver and a friend of TM and we were not overwhelmed by Brexit he would be toast.

    It is so depressing

    David Davis wins that contest.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    eek said:

    Danske Bank facing a €540m fine for money laundering

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/danske-bank-droht-millionenstrafe-wegen-geldwaesche-skandal-15796310.html

    CEO gone shares heavily down

    This is NIs second biggest bank and can issue sterling funny money notes

    My go to entertainment in Denmark is to go into a small branch with NI notes and ask for them to be exchanged into Krone... The airport branch and a lot of Kopenhagen branch staff now know that Danske issue UK bank notes, other places still don't...
    youre doing better than I am. Its a real chore trying to get paddy notes exchanged in Birmingham usually I give them to my kids as a present and watch their faces fall :-)
  • Don't see how she survives that concession.

    The letters will go in the moment that is confirmed.
    They won’t.

    Both sides have made big concessions on this over the last few days. Neither side will claim they’ve made any.

    Both will say they’re absolutely sticking to their red lines. Meanwhile, a deal is coming.
  • eek said:

    Danske Bank facing a €540m fine for money laundering

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/danske-bank-droht-millionenstrafe-wegen-geldwaesche-skandal-15796310.html

    CEO gone shares heavily down

    This is NIs second biggest bank and can issue sterling funny money notes

    My go to entertainment in Denmark is to go into a small branch with NI notes and ask for them to be exchanged into Krone... The airport branch and a lot of Kopenhagen branch staff now know that Danske issue UK bank notes, other places still don't...
    youre doing better than I am. Its a real chore trying to get paddy notes exchanged in Birmingham usually I give them to my kids as a present and watch their faces fall :-)
    And now the Einsteins at Ulster Bank have decided to make their bank notes look even less like legitimate bank notes.

    https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/money/northern-ireland-reveals-new-vertical-5-and-10-bank-notes-in-design-first-for-uk/
  • We are spin game situation now, whatever EU say, think of the opposite. for example “EU leaders to help May” actually means why should they make big compromises right now when another EU ref May be just around the corner.

    The fact is, Parliamentary arithmetic , the slide across all parties to EUref2, especially Labours slide towards endorsing one is undermining the PM and not encouraging the EU to make big compromises.

    The Labour Party position is undermining May at this key time. Why should EU make key compromises based on what a leader is saying, with Britain clearly in a volatile Defenestration situation?
  • Don't see how she survives that concession.

    The letters will go in the moment that is confirmed.
    Wow. The impossible force meets the immovable object.

    We cannot maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement without a border free Ireland.

    We cannot have a border free Ireland and quit the EEA

    We cannot have a deal without the agreement of the EU and governments who will not agree to any deal that does not maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement.

    So we either remain in the EEA (end of May's government) or we get no deal (end of May's government).
    We cannot leave NI in the EU Customs Union / Regulatory Sphere without breaking the Belfast Agreement (requires democratic consent to changes) - so Barnier's plan does not work either (and the EU very unlikely to grant NI a veto over their regs).
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    edited September 2018

    eek said:

    Danske Bank facing a €540m fine for money laundering

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/danske-bank-droht-millionenstrafe-wegen-geldwaesche-skandal-15796310.html

    CEO gone shares heavily down

    This is NIs second biggest bank and can issue sterling funny money notes

    My go to entertainment in Denmark is to go into a small branch with NI notes and ask for them to be exchanged into Krone... The airport branch and a lot of Kopenhagen branch staff now know that Danske issue UK bank notes, other places still don't...
    youre doing better than I am. Its a real chore trying to get paddy notes exchanged in Birmingham usually I give them to my kids as a present and watch their faces fall :-)
    And now the Einsteins at Ulster Bank have decided to make their bank notes look even less like legitimate bank notes.

    https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/money/northern-ireland-reveals-new-vertical-5-and-10-bank-notes-in-design-first-for-uk/
    The new polymer notes will be printed in portrait rather than landscape, and can be spent across the UK.

    Optimists!
  • Don't see how she survives that concession.

    The letters will go in the moment that is confirmed.
    Wow. The impossible force meets the immovable object.

    We cannot maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement without a border free Ireland.

    We cannot have a border free Ireland and quit the EEA

    We cannot have a deal without the agreement of the EU and governments who will not agree to any deal that does not maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement.

    So we either remain in the EEA (end of May's government) or we get no deal (end of May's government).
    We cannot leave NI in the EU Customs Union / Regulatory Sphere without breaking the Belfast Agreement (requires democratic consent to changes) - so Barnier's plan does not work either (and the EU very unlikely to grant NI a veto over their regs).
    That’s a very creative interpretation of the GFA. Does NI have a veto over economic regulation and trade policy now?
  • Making a distinction between regulatory checks (acceptable) and customs checks (no, of course not) is quite good politics. 99% of the GB population will feel that if that's the worst result of Brexit, they can live with it. The people who will object are primarily the DUP plus some Conservative ideologues, but are either prepared to bring the Government down over it?
    Mmm - this is not about politics, it is about legalities. The question is whether NI is in a separate customs or regulatory area than the rest of the UK. If NI is in a separate customs area, there will be customs checks, and potentially tariffs, and the DUP will vote it down in a heartbeat (and absolutely will bring down May if the ERG can't help them block the deal).

    What Barnier is saying is that there will be a de facto Irish sea border and he is happy to be nice about how that is enforced. This is a non starter and has been since December.

    What May is saying (I think) is that the border will be at the land border, NI will be in the same customs area at the rest of the UK, but since standards may vary across the border it is OK to have some of those checks in the Irish Sea and in fact there could be slightly different regulations in NI if necessary (eg on agricultural matters) but that it would be UK regulations and a UK customs area. This is really no different than the ERG have proposed and this would be fine.

    But either NI is under UK customs and regulations, or EU customs and regulation. Can't fudge it; can't hide it; it is one or the other.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,723

    eek said:

    Danske Bank facing a €540m fine for money laundering

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/danske-bank-droht-millionenstrafe-wegen-geldwaesche-skandal-15796310.html

    CEO gone shares heavily down

    This is NIs second biggest bank and can issue sterling funny money notes

    My go to entertainment in Denmark is to go into a small branch with NI notes and ask for them to be exchanged into Krone... The airport branch and a lot of Kopenhagen branch staff now know that Danske issue UK bank notes, other places still don't...
    youre doing better than I am. Its a real chore trying to get paddy notes exchanged in Birmingham usually I give them to my kids as a present and watch their faces fall :-)
    And now the Einsteins at Ulster Bank have decided to make their bank notes look even less like legitimate bank notes.

    https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/money/northern-ireland-reveals-new-vertical-5-and-10-bank-notes-in-design-first-for-uk/
    The new polymer notes will be printed in portrait rather than landscape, and can be spent across the UK.

    Optimists!
    Difficult enough trying to spend Scots pound notes in rUK. In my retailing days in Essex (long, long ago now) I used to accept them and it was always appreciated by the people trying to use them.
    Of course they had to be segregated for paying in purposes.
  • eek said:

    Danske Bank facing a €540m fine for money laundering

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/danske-bank-droht-millionenstrafe-wegen-geldwaesche-skandal-15796310.html

    CEO gone shares heavily down

    This is NIs second biggest bank and can issue sterling funny money notes

    My go to entertainment in Denmark is to go into a small branch with NI notes and ask for them to be exchanged into Krone... The airport branch and a lot of Kopenhagen branch staff now know that Danske issue UK bank notes, other places still don't...
    youre doing better than I am. Its a real chore trying to get paddy notes exchanged in Birmingham usually I give them to my kids as a present and watch their faces fall :-)
    And now the Einsteins at Ulster Bank have decided to make their bank notes look even less like legitimate bank notes.

    https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/money/northern-ireland-reveals-new-vertical-5-and-10-bank-notes-in-design-first-for-uk/
    The new polymer notes will be printed in portrait rather than landscape, and can be spent across the UK.

    Optimists!
    The word "can" is doing a lot of hard work in that sentence.
  • Has there ever been a more incompetent and useless Minister than Chris Grayling. If we had a functioning government he would have been fired ages ago. He agrees there is a problem with the railways and his answer is a 12 month enquiry into the way forward.

    If he was not a leaver and a friend of TM and we were not overwhelmed by Brexit he would be toast.

    It is so depressing

    It's hilarious how Labour have utterly missed the chance to get a ministerial scalp. IMO the majority of the blame for both the GTR and Northern messes lies with the DfT - and that's Grayling's responsibility. To make matters worse, his personal response to the crisis was not good, to say the least.

    But instead of attacking the DfT and Grayling, Labour attacked the TOCs instead - despite their actions being minor causal factors for the chaos. This is because the people at the top of Labour are too think to go beyond their tired ideology.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,725

    Don't see how she survives that concession.

    The letters will go in the moment that is confirmed.
    Wow. The impossible force meets the immovable object.

    We cannot maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement without a border free Ireland.

    We cannot have a border free Ireland and quit the EEA

    We cannot have a deal without the agreement of the EU and governments who will not agree to any deal that does not maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement.

    So we either remain in the EEA (end of May's government) or we get no deal (end of May's government).
    Lets hope so

  • Wow. The impossible force meets the immovable object.

    We cannot maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement without a border free Ireland.

    Well, you have to stop right there. There is already a border. Excise duties, VAT, tax, legal systems and even the currency are different on each side. So we can maintain the integrity of the GFA just fine with the ERG plan. The EU on the other hand, are trying to break the GFA by changing the status of NI without the consent of the citizens.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    eek said:

    Danske Bank facing a €540m fine for money laundering

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/danske-bank-droht-millionenstrafe-wegen-geldwaesche-skandal-15796310.html

    CEO gone shares heavily down

    This is NIs second biggest bank and can issue sterling funny money notes

    My go to entertainment in Denmark is to go into a small branch with NI notes and ask for them to be exchanged into Krone... The airport branch and a lot of Kopenhagen branch staff now know that Danske issue UK bank notes, other places still don't...
    youre doing better than I am. Its a real chore trying to get paddy notes exchanged in Birmingham usually I give them to my kids as a present and watch their faces fall :-)
    And now the Einsteins at Ulster Bank have decided to make their bank notes look even less like legitimate bank notes.

    https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/money/northern-ireland-reveals-new-vertical-5-and-10-bank-notes-in-design-first-for-uk/
    lol

    hadnt seen those, they look like bad wallpaper
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    On the topic, there has to be space for a voice in the centre but it's not clear that the Cable era has done any real thinking about what that voice should be arguing for. The previous leader deliberately avoided going into government so he could preserve his political virginity. The current one is laid back at horizontal levels. No to Brexit is a pressure group not a policy.
  • Regardless of what one thinks about Brexit or immigration, it's worth reading this:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/19/romanians-in-london-brexit-immigration-photo-essay

    At a purely human, non-political level we are setting up some real tragedies if we don't make more effort to ensure that whatever is offered to existing foreign workers is actually made known to them.

    Who could have predicted this sequence of events?

    "Peter Wilding, director of British Influence, which is campaigning to keep Britain in the EU, poured scorn on UKIP leader Nigel Farage.

    "Nigel Farage said 29 million Bulgarians and Romanians would come - 22,000 showed up," he said.

    "Will Farage now show that he is indeed different from other politicians by withdrawing his ludicrous and misleading claim and by apologising to the British people?""

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31519319

    Then...

    "Some 214,000 national insurance numbers were handed out to Bulgarians and Romanians in the year to June 2015, according to the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP).

    That’s up from 129,000 in the previous year, although a change in the way registrations are recorded means this may be an exaggeration and the figures “should be viewed with caution”, DWP says.

    But any recent surge in registrations is not evidence of a sudden influx of new migrants."

    https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-farage-confused-immigration

    ..and finally the penny drops

    "There are now more Romanians living in the UK than there are Irish nationals or Indians, official figures reveal.

    Romania has overtaken the Republic of Ireland and India to move from fourth to second most-common non-British nationality in the UK, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) found."

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/24/romanian-second-most-common-non-british-nationality-uk
  • Don't see how she survives that concession.

    The letters will go in the moment that is confirmed.
    Wow. The impossible force meets the immovable object.

    We cannot maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement without a border free Ireland.

    We cannot have a border free Ireland and quit the EEA

    We cannot have a deal without the agreement of the EU and governments who will not agree to any deal that does not maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement.

    So we either remain in the EEA (end of May's government) or we get no deal (end of May's government).
    We cannot leave NI in the EU Customs Union / Regulatory Sphere without breaking the Belfast Agreement (requires democratic consent to changes) - so Barnier's plan does not work either (and the EU very unlikely to grant NI a veto over their regs).
    That’s a very creative interpretation of the GFA.
    "Consent" isn't part of the Belfast Agreement? As for 'creative interpretations' we need look no further than M. Barnier.....
  • Don't see how she survives that concession.

    The letters will go in the moment that is confirmed.
    Wow. The impossible force meets the immovable object.

    We cannot maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement without a border free Ireland.

    We cannot have a border free Ireland and quit the EEA

    We cannot have a deal without the agreement of the EU and governments who will not agree to any deal that does not maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement.

    So we either remain in the EEA (end of May's government) or we get no deal (end of May's government).
    We cannot leave NI in the EU Customs Union / Regulatory Sphere without breaking the Belfast Agreement (requires democratic consent to changes) - so Barnier's plan does not work either (and the EU very unlikely to grant NI a veto over their regs).
    That’s a very creative interpretation of the GFA.
    "Consent" isn't part of the Belfast Agreement? As for 'creative interpretations' we need look no further than M. Barnier.....
    Any answer to the question you chopped out of my comment?
  • Interfering in the sovereign affairs of a member state.....that'll go down well:

    Joseph Muscat, the Maltese prime minister, said there was “almost unanimous” support among EU leaders for Britain to hold another vote on leaving.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/sep/20/salzburg-eu-summit-brexit-theresa-may-polite-doing-her-job-eu-chiefs-non-committal-verdict-on-mays-brexit-appeal-at-salzburg-politics-live?page=with:block-5ba35553e4b0f675819f4d08#block-5ba35553e4b0f675819f4d08
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,725

    Has there ever been a more incompetent and useless Minister than Chris Grayling. If we had a functioning government he would have been fired ages ago. He agrees there is a problem with the railways and his answer is a 12 month enquiry into the way forward.

    If he was not a leaver and a friend of TM and we were not overwhelmed by Brexit he would be toast.

    It is so depressing

    It's hilarious how Labour have utterly missed the chance to get a ministerial scalp. IMO the majority of the blame for both the GTR and Northern messes lies with the DfT - and that's Grayling's responsibility. To make matters worse, his personal response to the crisis was not good, to say the least.

    But instead of attacking the DfT and Grayling, Labour attacked the TOCs instead - despite their actions being minor causal factors for the chaos. This is because the people at the top of Labour are too think to go beyond their tired ideology.
    "Too think" Ahh right

    Failing Grayling in post is an asset to Labour
  • Has there ever been a more incompetent and useless Minister than Chris Grayling. If we had a functioning government he would have been fired ages ago. He agrees there is a problem with the railways and his answer is a 12 month enquiry into the way forward.

    If he was not a leaver and a friend of TM and we were not overwhelmed by Brexit he would be toast.

    It is so depressing

    It's hilarious how Labour have utterly missed the chance to get a ministerial scalp. IMO the majority of the blame for both the GTR and Northern messes lies with the DfT - and that's Grayling's responsibility. To make matters worse, his personal response to the crisis was not good, to say the least.

    But instead of attacking the DfT and Grayling, Labour attacked the TOCs instead - despite their actions being minor causal factors for the chaos. This is because the people at the top of Labour are too think to go beyond their tired ideology.
    "Too think" Ahh right

    Failing Grayling in post is an asset to Labour
    In your mind *everything* is an asset to Labour, including an anti-Semitic leader and his cadre of nasty followers.
  • eek said:

    Danske Bank facing a €540m fine for money laundering

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/danske-bank-droht-millionenstrafe-wegen-geldwaesche-skandal-15796310.html

    CEO gone shares heavily down

    This is NIs second biggest bank and can issue sterling funny money notes

    My go to entertainment in Denmark is to go into a small branch with NI notes and ask for them to be exchanged into Krone... The airport branch and a lot of Kopenhagen branch staff now know that Danske issue UK bank notes, other places still don't...
    youre doing better than I am. Its a real chore trying to get paddy notes exchanged in Birmingham usually I give them to my kids as a present and watch their faces fall :-)
    And now the Einsteins at Ulster Bank have decided to make their bank notes look even less like legitimate bank notes.

    https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/money/northern-ireland-reveals-new-vertical-5-and-10-bank-notes-in-design-first-for-uk/
    Use them for when you pay monopoly.

    Is what I do with Scottish notes.

    Which reminds me, Mike’s failed to do a thread on the fourth anniversary of the Indyref.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    Has there ever been a more incompetent and useless Minister than Chris Grayling. If we had a functioning government he would have been fired ages ago. He agrees there is a problem with the railways and his answer is a 12 month enquiry into the way forward.

    If he was not a leaver and a friend of TM and we were not overwhelmed by Brexit he would be toast.

    It is so depressing

    Owen Paterson must at least be in contention
  • Interfering in the sovereign affairs of a member state.....that'll go down well:

    Joseph Muscat, the Maltese prime minister, said there was “almost unanimous” support among EU leaders for Britain to hold another vote on leaving.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/sep/20/salzburg-eu-summit-brexit-theresa-may-polite-doing-her-job-eu-chiefs-non-committal-verdict-on-mays-brexit-appeal-at-salzburg-politics-live?page=with:block-5ba35553e4b0f675819f4d08#block-5ba35553e4b0f675819f4d08

    They're not interfering, they're saying what they hope the British will do. Obviously it's not up to them unless the British say they want a re-referendum, in which case there are lots of things they could do that would be helpful, starting with extending Article 50 to give the British time to do it.


  • They won’t.

    Both sides have made big concessions on this over the last few days. Neither side will claim they’ve made any.

    Both will say they’re absolutely sticking to their red lines. Meanwhile, a deal is coming.

    It is amazing. The summit has basically proven that no progress has been made at all in nine months. There is no way forward. Both sides are still miles apart on the border, the trade relationship and the jurisdiction of the withdrawal agreement. Yet a deal is coming. Got it.

    Another interpretation is that the EU leaders have all been told to spin that it is all going well because they are scared that May will go to her party conference, get torn apart and Boris will take over. They will hold her up because they are scared to death of an alternative and because they believe that she will cave in November. She probably will. But if they continue to insist on a NI backstop the DUP have the numbers to stop her dead.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,725

    Has there ever been a more incompetent and useless Minister than Chris Grayling. If we had a functioning government he would have been fired ages ago. He agrees there is a problem with the railways and his answer is a 12 month enquiry into the way forward.

    If he was not a leaver and a friend of TM and we were not overwhelmed by Brexit he would be toast.

    It is so depressing

    It's hilarious how Labour have utterly missed the chance to get a ministerial scalp. IMO the majority of the blame for both the GTR and Northern messes lies with the DfT - and that's Grayling's responsibility. To make matters worse, his personal response to the crisis was not good, to say the least.

    But instead of attacking the DfT and Grayling, Labour attacked the TOCs instead - despite their actions being minor causal factors for the chaos. This is because the people at the top of Labour are too think to go beyond their tired ideology.
    "Too think" Ahh right

    Failing Grayling in post is an asset to Labour
    In your mind *everything* is an asset to Labour, including an anti-Semitic leader and his cadre of nasty followers.
    Wheras you can't spell thick!!
  • Don't see how she survives that concession.

    The letters will go in the moment that is confirmed.
    Wow. The impossible force meets the immovable object.

    We cannot maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement without a border free Ireland.

    We cannot have a border free Ireland and quit the EEA

    We cannot have a deal without the agreement of the EU and governments who will not agree to any deal that does not maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement.

    So we either remain in the EEA (end of May's government) or we get no deal (end of May's government).
    We cannot leave NI in the EU Customs Union / Regulatory Sphere without breaking the Belfast Agreement (requires democratic consent to changes) - so Barnier's plan does not work either (and the EU very unlikely to grant NI a veto over their regs).
    That’s a very creative interpretation of the GFA.
    "Consent" isn't part of the Belfast Agreement? As for 'creative interpretations' we need look no further than M. Barnier.....
    Any answer to the question you chopped out of my comment?
    I thought I'd spare you the embarrassment.

    NI is represented in Westminster.

    NI will not be represented in Brussels - but will have to accept regulations. Where's the consent?
  • Has there ever been a more incompetent and useless Minister than Chris Grayling. If we had a functioning government he would have been fired ages ago. He agrees there is a problem with the railways and his answer is a 12 month enquiry into the way forward.

    If he was not a leaver and a friend of TM and we were not overwhelmed by Brexit he would be toast.

    It is so depressing

    Owen Paterson must at least be in contention
    This may come as a shock to many but I liked Owen Paterson.

    His work on GM foods was excellent.
  • Don't see how she survives that concession.

    The letters will go in the moment that is confirmed.
    Wow. The impossible force meets the immovable object.

    We cannot maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement without a border free Ireland.

    We cannot have a border free Ireland and quit the EEA

    We cannot have a deal without the agreement of the EU and governments who will not agree to any deal that does not maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement.

    So we either remain in the EEA (end of May's government) or we get no deal (end of May's government).
    We cannot leave NI in the EU Customs Union / Regulatory Sphere without breaking the Belfast Agreement (requires democratic consent to changes) - so Barnier's plan does not work either (and the EU very unlikely to grant NI a veto over their regs).
    That’s a very creative interpretation of the GFA.
    "Consent" isn't part of the Belfast Agreement? As for 'creative interpretations' we need look no further than M. Barnier.....
    Any answer to the question you chopped out of my comment?
    I thought I'd spare you the embarrassment.

    NI is represented in Westminster.

    NI will not be represented in Brussels - but will have to accept regulations. Where's the consent?
    NI voted to Remain, there’s your consent right there.
  • Don't see how she survives that concession.

    The letters will go in the moment that is confirmed.
    Wow. The impossible force meets the immovable object.

    We cannot maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement without a border free Ireland.

    We cannot have a border free Ireland and quit the EEA

    We cannot have a deal without the agreement of the EU and governments who will not agree to any deal that does not maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement.

    So we either remain in the EEA (end of May's government) or we get no deal (end of May's government).
    We cannot leave NI in the EU Customs Union / Regulatory Sphere without breaking the Belfast Agreement (requires democratic consent to changes) - so Barnier's plan does not work either (and the EU very unlikely to grant NI a veto over their regs).
    That’s a very creative interpretation of the GFA.
    "Consent" isn't part of the Belfast Agreement? As for 'creative interpretations' we need look no further than M. Barnier.....
    Any answer to the question you chopped out of my comment?
    I thought I'd spare you the embarrassment.

    NI is represented in Westminster.

    NI will not be represented in Brussels - but will have to accept regulations. Where's the consent?
    You used the word veto. Where is NI’s veto currently?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    eek said:

    Danske Bank facing a €540m fine for money laundering

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/danske-bank-droht-millionenstrafe-wegen-geldwaesche-skandal-15796310.html

    CEO gone shares heavily down

    This is NIs second biggest bank and can issue sterling funny money notes

    My go to entertainment in Denmark is to go into a small branch with NI notes and ask for them to be exchanged into Krone... The airport branch and a lot of Kopenhagen branch staff now know that Danske issue UK bank notes, other places still don't...
    youre doing better than I am. Its a real chore trying to get paddy notes exchanged in Birmingham usually I give them to my kids as a present and watch their faces fall :-)
    And now the Einsteins at Ulster Bank have decided to make their bank notes look even less like legitimate bank notes.

    https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/money/northern-ireland-reveals-new-vertical-5-and-10-bank-notes-in-design-first-for-uk/
    Use them for when you pay monopoly.

    Is what I do with Scottish notes.

    Which reminds me, Mike’s failed to do a thread on the fourth anniversary of the Indyref.
    ah the happy days of Indyref when everyone laughed endlessly at nats banging on and on and on and on about a single issue

    if only we'd realised it was the amuse bouche before the main event
  • Mr Fox has a cunning plan.....not within his competence....

    https://twitter.com/jillongovt/status/1042692624740757505
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,883

    We are spin game situation now, whatever EU say, think of the opposite. for example “EU leaders to help May” actually means why should they make big compromises right now when another EU ref May be just around the corner.

    The fact is, Parliamentary arithmetic , the slide across all parties to EUref2, especially Labours slide towards endorsing one is undermining the PM and not encouraging the EU to make big compromises.

    The Labour Party position is undermining May at this key time. Why should EU make key compromises based on what a leader is saying, with Britain clearly in a volatile Defenestration situation?

    The EU must be in quite a quandary over whether they'd rather deal with the tories or Labour in government. The current lot are obviously quite stupid and thereby easily duped (NI backstop, etc.) but a Corbyn led negotiation would probably sign up for things they had no capacity, desire or intention to deliver.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092



    They won’t.

    Both sides have made big concessions on this over the last few days. Neither side will claim they’ve made any.

    Both will say they’re absolutely sticking to their red lines. Meanwhile, a deal is coming.

    It is amazing. The summit has basically proven that no progress has been made at all in nine months. There is no way forward. Both sides are still miles apart on the border, the trade relationship and the jurisdiction of the withdrawal agreement. Yet a deal is coming. Got it.

    Another interpretation is that the EU leaders have all been told to spin that it is all going well because they are scared that May will go to her party conference, get torn apart and Boris will take over. They will hold her up because they are scared to death of an alternative and because they believe that she will cave in November. She probably will. But if they continue to insist on a NI backstop the DUP have the numbers to stop her dead.
    Why would they be scared of Boris? Don't you claim that both he and they want a Canada-style deal?
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,793

    Good morning, everyone.

    Apparently, we're in for a deluge. I'm sure the dog will not be amused.

    On the Lib Dems: good to hear that apparently Cable's deranged leadership election ideas went down terribly. Maybe there's hope for the yellows after all.

    Mr Dancer, one other thing in the speech that stood out to me (apart from spasms, erotic, exotic, or otherwise) was his saying that campaigning to be in the EU wasn't enough - there had to be a recognition that the status quo ante was unsustainable and that the drivers for voting to Leave had to be addressed; that wanting to manage immigration wasn't racism, that areas feeling left behind had to receive investment, that free movement would have to be reformed, and that there was a real prospect of doing so (with Merkel and Macron seeing similar issues rising and EU-wide they were rising).

    I've often complained elsewhere to those pushing for somehow still Remaining: "What then?" What was their plan for what do do afterwards, because otherwise we just end up with the exact issues all over again. It's nice to see at least an attempt to answer it and an acknowledgement that it needs to be done.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Interfering in the sovereign affairs of a member state.....that'll go down well:

    Joseph Muscat, the Maltese prime minister, said there was “almost unanimous” support among EU leaders for Britain to hold another vote on leaving.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/sep/20/salzburg-eu-summit-brexit-theresa-may-polite-doing-her-job-eu-chiefs-non-committal-verdict-on-mays-brexit-appeal-at-salzburg-politics-live?page=with:block-5ba35553e4b0f675819f4d08#block-5ba35553e4b0f675819f4d08

    Morning. I don’t really see this as interference. It’s telling us that we have another option. Mind you, I thought the EU should have got involved in the debate last time. It seemed to me absurd to have a debate about whether or not to remain in the EU and not involve the EU in that debate. Had we done so we might have had a clearer idea about the realities of what departure meant.

    Anyway, I like the reference to “almost unanimous”. Who doesn’t want another UK vote? France?

  • Has there ever been a more incompetent and useless Minister than Chris Grayling. If we had a functioning government he would have been fired ages ago. He agrees there is a problem with the railways and his answer is a 12 month enquiry into the way forward.

    If he was not a leaver and a friend of TM and we were not overwhelmed by Brexit he would be toast.

    It is so depressing

    It's hilarious how Labour have utterly missed the chance to get a ministerial scalp. IMO the majority of the blame for both the GTR and Northern messes lies with the DfT - and that's Grayling's responsibility. To make matters worse, his personal response to the crisis was not good, to say the least.

    But instead of attacking the DfT and Grayling, Labour attacked the TOCs instead - despite their actions being minor causal factors for the chaos. This is because the people at the top of Labour are too think to go beyond their tired ideology.
    "Too think" Ahh right

    Failing Grayling in post is an asset to Labour
    In your mind *everything* is an asset to Labour, including an anti-Semitic leader and his cadre of nasty followers.
    Wheras you can't spell thick!!
    I can spell, but my fingers are dyslexic. ;)

    But you evidently don't have a substantive answer, because you know it's true. Anyone remaining in Labour are going to be covered in the excrement coming from the party's leader and his 'followers'.

    They should be ashamed of themselves. Little people filled to the core with hatred, pretending they want a 'better' country.

    (And sadly many Conservatives are hardly much better, but in least that case the excrement is not coming from multiple orifices leading the party.)
  • Mortimer said:

    matt said:

    I guess all the people whinging about Ryanair would continue to pay £400 (with no flexibility or one way options) to fly on legacy carriers. I book perhaps 100 flights a year with Ryanair - they are usually on time and effective.

    I have a rule whereby I’ll fly Ryanair only if it’s £100 cheaper than alternatives.

    I’ve flown Ryanair once in 4 years, to Dublin.

    BA, Flybe and EasyJet are my usuals for flying now - I travel largely within the UK/Europe.
    I new Ryanair hand luggage rules are just idiotic. For the business traveller, it makes them even less attractive.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    Has there ever been a more incompetent and useless Minister than Chris Grayling. If we had a functioning government he would have been fired ages ago. He agrees there is a problem with the railways and his answer is a 12 month enquiry into the way forward.

    If he was not a leaver and a friend of TM and we were not overwhelmed by Brexit he would be toast.

    It is so depressing

    Owen Paterson must at least be in contention
    This may come as a shock to many but I liked Owen Paterson.

    His work on GM foods was excellent.
    for once you have surprised me Mr Eagles

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