politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » BoJo moves to joint next CON leader favourite with Moggsy foll

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/JournoStephen/status/1019933440454680576

True story: one of my classmates at school came up with the excuse "My mum curried [my homework]!"

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1019932691339399168?s=20

Donald tweets in crayon.

ydoethur said:

Cyclefree said:

AlastairMeeks said:

John_M said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/mhairimcf/status/1019679757548576768?s=21

One for the archives, methinks.

I’m the waiter not the chef. I’m not stockpiling Stilton just yet.

Still, it’s good to know that the extent of Leaver ambition has shrunk to keeping the supermarket shelves stocked with milk.

It sounds like an exaggeration to me. My milk is delivered by an old-fashioned milkman. Pretty sure he's not getting his milk from abroad. English butter is plentiful and lots of good English cheeses around. And yogurt is easy to make.

If we get to the stage that there are shortages of food, people unable to leave or enter Britain, no medicines, the lights going off etc, it will be a colossal - and incredibly stupid - failure by both the British government and the EU.

So this seems a bit of a red herring to me.

The most bizarre part of Varadkar’s ludicrous comments yesterday was his linking fishing rights to overflight rights..

https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1019939001636212736

There’s more!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1019936133147516929?s=20

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1019937445356474368?s=20

Kruiswijk going for immortality here !

grabcocque said:

kjh said:

Nigelb said:

kjh said:

IanB2 said:

Mogg and Johnson are both great lays.

It is a good job this is a betting site as otherwise I'm not sure if they should be flattered or sue.

As an expression of taste, it's surely rather niche ?

That thought crossed my mind.

JRM may not be a great lay, but with six kids we can assume he's a fairly consistent one.

OwO

We can also infer from that were Jacob Rees-Mogg to stand in the next Tory leadership contest he won't pull out, unlike Boris and Andrea Leadsom.

Mind bleach is available that way --------->

TheScreamingEagles said:

So anyone else taking tomorrow off from work to they can see Mamma Mia 2 a few times at the cinema or is it just me?

Just you. The rest of us are doing important things.

Sod it, Roderick's played all round one.

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

So anyone else taking tomorrow off from work to they can see Mamma Mia 2 a few times at the cinema or is it just me?

Just you. The rest of us are doing important things.

Sod it, Roderick's played all round one.

In the evening I'll be attending the Roses t20 match.

Cyclefree said:

AlastairMeeks said:

John_M said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/mhairimcf/status/1019679757548576768?s=21

One for the archives, methinks.

I’m the waiter not the chef. I’m not stockpiling Stilton just yet.

Still, it’s good to know that the extent of Leaver ambition has shrunk to keeping the supermarket shelves stocked with milk.

It sounds like an exaggeration to me. My milk is delivered by an old-fashioned milkman. Pretty sure he's not getting his milk from abroad. English butter is plentiful and lots of good English cheeses around. And yogurt is easy to make.

If we get to the stage that there are shortages of food, people unable to leave or enter Britain, no medicines, the lights going off etc, it will be a colossal - and incredibly stupid - failure by both the British government and the EU.

Those who have a bit of road-kill to add to their grass soup after 29th March will be the lucky ones.

We'll envy the people in Threads.

david_herdson said:

Or that punters have got it wrong.

With JRM a lot seems to be around name recognition, courtesy of social media wank.

The guy has never been a minister, has no relevant experience, is easy for an opposition to stereotype (out of touch, inherited money, offshore tax havens etc) and frankly ..... is a complete weirdo. He feeds Corbyn's strengths.

MaxPB said:

Foxy said:

brendan16 said:

John_M said:

HYUFD said:

AndyJS said:

"Europe Elects
‏ @EuropeElects

Poland, Kantar poll:

When should Poland join the Eurozone?

Never: 53%
In next 5 years: 21%
In next 6-10 years: 13%
In more than 10 years: 13%

Field work: 06/07/18-7/07/18
Sample size: 1,000"

Poland another nation that will not be part of the Eurozone and a full Federal EU

Poland's accession treaty requires it to join the Eurozone. The EU is a rules based organisation, as many tell us. Only Denmark (and the erstwhile UK before it became a deserted wasteland) has/had an opt out.

Sweden is also supposed to join the Eurozone - it was an EU member for six years before the Euro was introduced and 18 years since the Euro began it still hasn't joined. If they don't enforce this requirement on Sweden why would they do so on Poland?

The EU picks and chooses what obligations it follows - and I expect the ECB has enough problems with managing existing members like Italy and Greece without forcing others to join.

The Euro joining rule is vague enough that the conditions are effectively decided by the nation concerned, with no serious attempt at enforcement.

The rise of Nationalist Populist parties in the EU is not being driven by anti EU sentiment, which is quite modest by UK standards, but rather by non EU migration and asylum seekers. Indeed in this Tpmmy Robinsons mob has a lot in common with them, being centered on anti Muslim sentiment rather than anything EU related.

It's EU related in a sense because official EU policy is for each country to have a quota of migrants which is must take in and has previously threatened (though stepped back from, thankfully) punishment beatings and withdrawal of EU funding from those countries who won't accept any migrants.

I thought that the current rules, the "Dublin Convention", was that asylum seekers should register in the first EU country they reach.

The controversy is that this is unpopular in Italy and Greece who have pushed for burden-sharing, which is being fiercely resisted by some EU countries, most notably Hungary (I don't know the exact line-up on each side).

CarlottaVance said:

There’s more!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1019936133147516929?s=20

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1019937445356474368?s=20

Long list. No Syria?

Sterling fallen again today against the dollar - now
$1.2989

dr_spyn said:

Was Jo Swinson not too tired to turn up at that anti Trump demo last Friday but then incapable of turning up to vote in The Commons on Tuesday?

https://www.libdemvoice.org/come-and-join-the-liberal-democrat-antitrump-protest-tomorrow-at-2pm-libdemsagainsttrump-58046.html

The Lib Dems are so over that whole EU thing, pace Vince and Tim finding better ways to spend their time than tedious voting over the future of the country.

https://twitter.com/Sean_Kemp/status/1019931061197987842

Sean_F said:

Cyclefree said:

AlastairMeeks said:

John_M said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/mhairimcf/status/1019679757548576768?s=21

One for the archives, methinks.

I’m the waiter not the chef. I’m not stockpiling Stilton just yet.

Still, it’s good to know that the extent of Leaver ambition has shrunk to keeping the supermarket shelves stocked with milk.

It sounds like an exaggeration to me. My milk is delivered by an old-fashioned milkman. Pretty sure he's not getting his milk from abroad. English butter is plentiful and lots of good English cheeses around. And yogurt is easy to make.

If we get to the stage that there are shortages of food, people unable to leave or enter Britain, no medicines, the lights going off etc, it will be a colossal - and incredibly stupid - failure by both the British government and the EU.

Those who have a bit of road-kill to add to their grass soup after 29th March will be the lucky ones.

We'll envy the people in Threads.

Short term, we can feed off Julian Smith toast.....

dr_spyn said:

Was Jo Swinson not too tired to turn up at that anti Trump demo last Friday but then incapable of turning up to vote in The Commons on Tuesday?

https://www.libdemvoice.org/come-and-join-the-liberal-democrat-antitrump-protest-tomorrow-at-2pm-libdemsagainsttrump-58046.html

If you turn up to work while on maternity leave, you can forfeit your right to maternity leave.

I can see why she would do one in a private capacity, and not the other and risk getting into a tangle.

That said I don't know if MPs have official maternity leave, given they don't have to turn up anyway (cf Jared O'Mara).

TOPPING said:

So with these new visa requirements (or not) for EU nationals, who would like to bet me £100 that we won't see a Windrush-type scandal in years to come with people being deported who are entitled to stay here?

Why would anyone ever want to bet in favour of the competence of the home office?!

Bugger, we've lost Van Buuren. Dreamy on drive followed by a thick edge.

Sussex go favourites.

edmundintokyo said:

Cyclefree said:

You don't think that the the facts that the EU has been utterly rubbish at managing non-EU migration and, specifically, migration from Muslim countries and that Germany broke the rules single-handedly then tried to rope in other EU countries to come to her aid have nothing to do with the rise in popularity of such parties?

This is entirely backwards. The optional step that Merkel took was to say that Germany would take refugees rather than sending them back to the EU country they entered Germany from, even though they weren't technically obliged to.

It's not at all clear that these people were - legally - refugees since no checks were made. That in itself is part of the problem.

But the point is that there are rules and those rules should have been enforced. Instead they weren't and it has caused social problems within Germany, tensions with other EU countries and a belief that the EU's external borders are not being properly policed which feeds into concerns with FoM and Schengen, leading to borders and fences being erected where before there were none. It has also led to liberal countries like Denmark instituting policies to require integration precisely because of concerns that too many people have been let in who do not wish to integrate and that this is a danger to social cohesion.

No wonder populist parties are on the rise. Blaming them for the failures of the established parties is to get matters the wrong way round. They are filling the political vacuum created by the failure of the established parties to deal sensibly with non-EU migration.

OblitusSumMe said:

MaxPB said:

Foxy said:

brendan16 said:

John_M said:

HYUFD said:

AndyJS said:

"Europe Elects
‏ @EuropeElects

Poland, Kantar poll:

When should Poland join the Eurozone?

Never: 53%
In next 5 years: 21%
In next 6-10 years: 13%
In more than 10 years: 13%

Field work: 06/07/18-7/07/18
Sample size: 1,000"

Poland another nation that will not be part of the Eurozone and a full Federal EU

Poland's accession treaty requires it to join the Eurozone. The EU is a rules based organisation, as many tell us. Only Denmark (and the erstwhile UK before it became a deserted wasteland) has/had an opt out.

Sweden is also supposed to join the Eurozone - it was an EU member for six years before the Euro was introduced and 18 years since the Euro began it still hasn't joined. If they don't enforce this requirement on Sweden why would they do so on Poland?

The EU picks and chooses what obligations it follows - and I expect the ECB has enough problems with managing existing members like Italy and Greece without forcing others to join.

The Euro joining rule is vague enough that the conditions are effectively decided by the nation concerned, with no serious attempt at enforcement.

The rise of Nationalist Populist parties in the EU is not being driven by anti EU sentiment, which is quite modest by UK standards, but rather by non EU migration and asylum seekers. Indeed in this Tpmmy Robinsons mob has a lot in common with them, being centered on anti Muslim sentiment rather than anything EU related.

It's EU related in a sense because official EU policy is for each country to have a quota of migrants which is must take in and has previously threatened (though stepped back from, thankfully) punishment beatings and withdrawal of EU funding from those countries who won't accept any migrants.

I thought that the current rules, the "Dublin Convention", was that asylum seekers should register in the first EU country they reach.

The controversy is that this is unpopular in Italy and Greece who have pushed for burden-sharing, which is being fiercely resisted by some EU countries, most notably Hungary (I don't know the exact line-up on each side).

Officially there is a migrant quota:

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-5596_en.htm

It is now 160,000 and the Eastern States have said no, the ECJ has ruled they must take them, but they have all still flatly refused to take a single migrant. This quota system as well as poorly thought out policy from Merkel has destroyed EU unity on external migration.

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/anna_soubry/status/1019942185960136704?s=21

When have whips ever behaved with honour?

dr_spyn said:

Was Jo Swinson not too tired to turn up at that anti Trump demo last Friday but then incapable of turning up to vote in The Commons on Tuesday?

https://www.libdemvoice.org/come-and-join-the-liberal-democrat-antitrump-protest-tomorrow-at-2pm-libdemsagainsttrump-58046.html

Wow, you'd have thought bothering to turn up to a crucial vote would be far more important than going to a Trump demo.

MaxPB said:

OblitusSumMe said:

MaxPB said:

It's EU related in a sense because official EU policy is for each country to have a quota of migrants which is must take in and has previously threatened (though stepped back from, thankfully) punishment beatings and withdrawal of EU funding from those countries who won't accept any migrants.

I thought that the current rules, the "Dublin Convention", was that asylum seekers should register in the first EU country they reach.

The controversy is that this is unpopular in Italy and Greece who have pushed for burden-sharing, which is being fiercely resisted by some EU countries, most notably Hungary (I don't know the exact line-up on each side).

Officially there is a migrant quota:

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-5596_en.htm

It is now 160,000 and the Eastern States have said no, the ECJ has ruled they must take them, but they have all still flatly refused to take a single migrant. This quota system as well as poorly thought out policy from Merkel has destroyed EU unity on external migration.

That link just says that it is a proposal, but it's never to my knowledge been agreed by the Council of Ministers.

Proposals from the Commission do not become official policy until agreed by the Council of Ministers.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MarqueeMark said:

CarlottaVance said:

There’s more!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1019936133147516929?s=20

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1019937445356474368?s=20

Long list. No Syria?

Syria is in the Middle East?

Thought it might have warranted a specific mention.

Or not.

Still, refreshing to see Trump embrace glasnost in the post-Obama era....

https://twitter.com/anythinglfc_/status/1019854225902395393?s=21

TheScreamingEagles said:

So anyone else taking tomorrow off from work to they can see Mamma Mia 2 a few times at the cinema or is it just me?

I am sure that you are jealous of this little article :

https://www.thelocal.se/20180404/how-to-understand-swedish-politics-through-abba-songs

edmundintokyo said:

Cyclefree said:

You don't think that the the facts that the EU has been utterly rubbish at managing non-EU migration and, specifically, migration from Muslim countries and that Germany broke the rules single-handedly then tried to rope in other EU countries to come to her aid have nothing to do with the rise in popularity of such parties?

This is entirely backwards. The optional step that Merkel took was to say that Germany would take refugees rather than sending them back to the EU country they entered Germany from, even though they weren't technically obliged to.

It was an extremely brave decision by Merkel. People seem to have forgotten that, at the time, what was a refugee crisis was threatening to become a humanitarian crisis. While everyone else was turning a blind eye or throwing up their hands in despair, she was the only one who showed a bit of leadership in a crisis situation. Sometimes you have to break rules to save lives.

surby said:

CarlottaVance said:

I guess this would cut both ways....

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1019904914280108032?s=21

I believe this visa issue like aircrafts flying and Euratom will be sorted out because at the end of the day it is mainly paperwork.

Visits upto 3 months stay will be given just like when we go to the US. But we have to pay to get a visa to Australia.

Most Brits travel to the US for tourism on the visa waiver scheme via the ESTA application process - it's not a visa as such but a pre clearance process. You can still be refused entry on arrival of course but that is very very rare.

As for Brits needing visas to go to the EU or EEA area - well given the EU don't require citizens of Vanuatu and Nicaragua to have visas to enter Schengen for tourism I think it is rather unlikely they will make Brits require tourist visas. The UK is the largest source of tourists for Spain for example and processing 9 million tourist visas a year just for Spain might prove hard work for the bureaucrats. So another silly non story - we will go on the non visa list!

If the EU really does play silly there are over 130 countries outside the EU that will continue to allow Brits visa free travel for holidays for up to 3 and even six months so we can just vote with our wallets!

Foxy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

So anyone else taking tomorrow off from work to they can see Mamma Mia 2 a few times at the cinema or is it just me?

I am sure that you are jealous of this little article :

https://www.thelocal.se/20180404/how-to-understand-swedish-politics-through-abba-songs

My my.

https://twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/1019862449321922560?s=21

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

dr_spyn said:

Was Jo Swinson not too tired to turn up at that anti Trump demo last Friday but then incapable of turning up to vote in The Commons on Tuesday?

https://www.libdemvoice.org/come-and-join-the-liberal-democrat-antitrump-protest-tomorrow-at-2pm-libdemsagainsttrump-58046.html

If you turn up to work while on maternity leave, you can forfeit your right to maternity leave.

I can see why she would do one in a private capacity, and not the other and risk getting into a tangle.

That said I don't know if MPs have official maternity leave, given they don't have to turn up anyway (cf Jared O'Mara).

Not true. Maternity leave provision does allow for occasional contact days in order to keep in touch. This is very commonly used in my line of work.

Perhaps Swinson had to be back in Scotland during the week for a medical appointment, but it is increasingly clear that the fault was not here in terms of the Pairing.

Yes you are correct upto 10 days to keep in touch.

https://www.gov.uk/employee-rights-when-on-leave

https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1019945924024504320

Yorkcity said:

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

dr_spyn said:

Was Jo Swinson not too tired to turn up at that anti Trump demo last Friday but then incapable of turning up to vote in The Commons on Tuesday?

https://www.libdemvoice.org/come-and-join-the-liberal-democrat-antitrump-protest-tomorrow-at-2pm-libdemsagainsttrump-58046.html

If you turn up to work while on maternity leave, you can forfeit your right to maternity leave.

I can see why she would do one in a private capacity, and not the other and risk getting into a tangle.

That said I don't know if MPs have official maternity leave, given they don't have to turn up anyway (cf Jared O'Mara).

Not true. Maternity leave provision does allow for occasional contact days in order to keep in touch. This is very commonly used in my line of work.

Perhaps Swinson had to be back in Scotland during the week for a medical appointment, but it is increasingly clear that the fault was not here in terms of the Pairing.

Yes you are correct upto 10 days to keep in touch.

https://www.gov.uk/employee-rights-when-on-leave

'Keeping in touch' is not the same as returning to work! In my experience of teaching, you're allowed to come in to talk to colleagues, but not to do any teaching. If you do, you are put on immediate notice to return.

Swinson's voting wouldn't have fallen under the first definition.

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1019945924024504320

Is it me ,does that tweet make sense ?

Cyclefree said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

edmundintokyo said:

Cyclefree said:

You don't think that the the facts that the EU has been utterly rubbish at managing non-EU migration and, specifically, migration from Muslim countries and that Germany broke the rules single-handedly then tried to rope in other EU countries to come to her aid have nothing to do with the rise in popularity of such parties?

This is entirely backwards. The optional step that Merkel took was to say that Germany would take refugees rather than sending them back to the EU country they entered Germany from, even though they weren't technically obliged to.

It was an extremely brave decision by Merkel. People seem to have forgotten that, at the time, what was a refugee crisis was threatening to become a humanitarian crisis. While everyone else was turning a blind eye or throwing up their hands in despair, she was the only one who showed a bit of leadership in a crisis situation. Sometimes you have to break rules to save lives.

I'll bet the women and girls sexually harassed / raped by the "refugees" feel very grateful for Merkel's "brave" decision.

What was brave was when she pointed out to the Syrian girl a few weeks earlier that, as is the case and as Germany has now recognised, that Europe cannot take everyone who wants to go there. That is being honest. Even if it is not what people want to hear. Making decisions out of panic and misplaced sentimentality rarely leads to good long-term decision-making.

I suppose all Mexicans are rapists too, aren't they?

I thought the Cyprus intercept was known before?

https://twitter.com/matthewwells/status/1019943492687187969?s=21

Salisbury poisoning, codewords and flight departure of suspect.

https://twitter.com/MatthewWells/status/1019943492687187969

MarqueeMark said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

edmundintokyo said:

Cyclefree said:

You don't think that the the facts that the EU has been utterly rubbish at managing non-EU migration and, specifically, migration from Muslim countries and that Germany broke the rules single-handedly then tried to rope in other EU countries to come to her aid have nothing to do with the rise in popularity of such parties?

This is entirely backwards. The optional step that Merkel took was to say that Germany would take refugees rather than sending them back to the EU country they entered Germany from, even though they weren't technically obliged to.

It was an extremely brave decision by Merkel. People seem to have forgotten that, at the time, what was a refugee crisis was threatening to become a humanitarian crisis. While everyone else was turning a blind eye or throwing up their hands in despair, she was the only one who showed a bit of leadership in a crisis situation. Sometimes you have to break rules to save lives.

OR...Cameron showed leadership, in funding assistance in the region. So no, not the only one. (Oh, and Cameron's answer was the right one.)

1 million against 10,000.

MarqueeMark said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

edmundintokyo said:

Cyclefree said:

You don't think that the the facts that the EU has been utterly rubbish at managing non-EU migration and, specifically, migration from Muslim countries and that Germany broke the rules single-handedly then tried to rope in other EU countries to come to her aid have nothing to do with the rise in popularity of such parties?

This is entirely backwards. The optional step that Merkel took was to say that Germany would take refugees rather than sending them back to the EU country they entered Germany from, even though they weren't technically obliged to.

It was an extremely brave decision by Merkel. People seem to have forgotten that, at the time, what was a refugee crisis was threatening to become a humanitarian crisis. While everyone else was turning a blind eye or throwing up their hands in despair, she was the only one who showed a bit of leadership in a crisis situation. Sometimes you have to break rules to save lives.

OR...Cameron showed leadership, in funding assistance in the region. So no, not the only one. (Oh, and Cameron's answer was the right one.)

They are different things. Cameron's answer came later as part of the overall strategy to reduce migration. Merkel's action was taken in order to avert an ongoing emergency at the time, for which no-one else had an answer.

Yorkcity said:

ydoethur said:

Yorkcity said:

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

dr_spyn said:

Was Jo Swinson not too tired to turn up at that anti Trump demo last Friday but then incapable of turning up to vote in The Commons on Tuesday?

https://www.libdemvoice.org/come-and-join-the-liberal-democrat-antitrump-protest-tomorrow-at-2pm-libdemsagainsttrump-58046.html

If you turn up to work while on maternity leave, you can forfeit your right to maternity leave.

I can see why she would do one in a private capacity, and not the other and risk getting into a tangle.

That said I don't know if MPs have official maternity leave, given they don't have to turn up anyway (cf Jared O'Mara).

Not true. Maternity leave provision does allow for occasional contact days in order to keep in touch. This is very commonly used in my line of work.

Perhaps Swinson had to be back in Scotland during the week for a medical appointment, but it is increasingly clear that the fault was not here in terms of the Pairing.

Yes you are correct upto 10 days to keep in touch.

https://www.gov.uk/employee-rights-when-on-leave

'Keeping in touch' is not the same as returning to work! In my experience of teaching, you're allowed to come in to talk to colleagues, but not to do any teaching. If you do, you are put on immediate notice to return.

Swinson's voting wouldn't have fallen under the first definition.

It does say , employees are allowed to work upto ,10 days during their maternity leave.The type work should be agreed between employer and employee.

That is what happens where I used to work in the public sector.

(I should imagine) none of that applies to MPs, who aren't employees - as was also discussed during the Bercow et al abuse row. If they *were*, there'd be some sort of arrangement for their work to be covered and pairing wouldn't be an issue.

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Cyclefree said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

edmundintokyo said:

Cyclefree said:

You don't think that the the facts that the EU has been utterly rubbish at managing non-EU migration and, specifically, migration from Muslim countries and that Germany broke the rules single-handedly then tried to rope in other EU countries to come to her aid have nothing to do with the rise in popularity of such parties?

This is entirely backwards. The optional step that Merkel took was to say that Germany would take refugees rather than sending them back to the EU country they entered Germany from, even though they weren't technically obliged to.

It was an extremely brave decision by Merkel. People seem to have forgotten that, at the time, what was a refugee crisis was threatening to become a humanitarian crisis. While everyone else was turning a blind eye or throwing up their hands in despair, she was the only one who showed a bit of leadership in a crisis situation. Sometimes you have to break rules to save lives.

I'll bet the women and girls sexually harassed / raped by the "refugees" feel very grateful for Merkel's "brave" decision.

What was brave was when she pointed out to the Syrian girl a few weeks earlier that, as is the case and as Germany has now recognised, that Europe cannot take everyone who wants to go there. That is being honest. Even if it is not what people want to hear. Making decisions out of panic and misplaced sentimentality rarely leads to good long-term decision-making.

I suppose all Mexicans are rapists too, aren't they?

No. Nor are all men from the Middle East. But it is undeniable that some of those who Merkel let in have committed sexual crimes. These are facts. Maybe Merkel thought that this was the price you have to pay. It wasn't her paying, though.

And I am old-fashioned enough to think that the first duty of the state is to protect its citizens from harm. That does not equate to my mind to letting in without any form of vetting or control a load of young men from countries with a misogynistic approach to women. That is why we have rules to distinguish genuine asylum seekers from other migrants and why countries generally have rules to keep out those with criminal records or of bad character. None of this was done.

Then when crimes happened the reaction of those at the top was to hush them up or tell women not to go out or only go out with male protectors or only go to womens' areas.

It was a dereliction of duty on Merkel's part. It was not thought through. It caused difficult social and political consequences, not just in her country. And Germany is now trying to reverse it.

Cyclefree said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Cyclefree said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

edmundintokyo said:

Cyclefree said:

You don't think that the the facts that the EU has been utterly rubbish at managing non-EU migration and, specifically, migration from Muslim countries and that Germany broke the rules single-handedly then tried to rope in other EU countries to come to her aid have nothing to do with the rise in popularity of such parties?

.

It was an extremely brave decision by Merkel. People seem to have forgotten that, at the time, what was a refugee crisis was threatening to become a humanitarian crisis. While everyone else was turning a blind eye or throwing up their hands in despair, she was the only one who showed a bit of leadership in a crisis situation. Sometimes you have to break rules to save lives.

I'll bet the women and girls sexually harassed / raped by the "refugees" feel very grateful for Merkel's "brave" decision.

What was brave was when she pointed out to the Syrian girl a few weeks earlier that, as is the case and as Germany has now recognised, that Europe cannot take everyone who wants to go there. That is being honest. Even if it is not what people want to hear. Making decisions out of panic and misplaced sentimentality rarely leads to good long-term decision-making.

I suppose all Mexicans are rapists too, aren't they?

No. Nor are all men from the Middle East. But it is undeniable that some of those who Merkel let in have committed sexual crimes. These are facts. Maybe Merkel thought that this was the price you have to pay. It wasn't her paying, though.

And I am old-fashioned enough to think that the first duty of the state is to protect its citizens from harm. That does not equate to my mind to letting in without any form of vetting or control a load of young men from countries with a misogynistic approach to women. That is why we have rules to distinguish genuine asylum seekers from other migrants and why countries generally have rules to keep out those with criminal records or of bad character. None of this was done.

Then when crimes happened the reaction of those at the top was to hush them up or tell women not to go out or only go out with male protectors or only go to womens' areas.

It was a dereliction of duty on Merkel's part. It was not thought through. It caused difficult social and political consequences, not just in her country. And Germany is now trying to reverse it.

Is there any statistic which says that the Syrians committed proportionately far greater number of rapes than other people living in Germany ? I mean statistically significant.

surby said:

MarqueeMark said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

edmundintokyo said:

Cyclefree said:

You don't think that the the facts that the EU has been utterly rubbish at managing non-EU migration and, specifically, migration from Muslim countries and that Germany broke the rules single-handedly then tried to rope in other EU countries to come to her aid have nothing to do with the rise in popularity of such parties?

This is entirely backwards. The optional step that Merkel took was to say that Germany would take refugees rather than sending them back to the EU country they entered Germany from, even though they weren't technically obliged to.

It was an extremely brave decision by Merkel. People seem to have forgotten that, at the time, what was a refugee crisis was threatening to become a humanitarian crisis. While everyone else was turning a blind eye or throwing up their hands in despair, she was the only one who showed a bit of leadership in a crisis situation. Sometimes you have to break rules to save lives.

OR...Cameron showed leadership, in funding assistance in the region. So no, not the only one. (Oh, and Cameron's answer was the right one.)

1 million against 10,000.

Merkel took in a million? She truly is mad!

ydoethur said:

With regard to maternity leave and sick leave, surely a better system than proxy voting and paired voting would be for the party to nominate a substitute MP for 6 months, as they can in the US, subject to approval by the Speakers and deputies. That would end this straight away and ensure that constituents still get representation.

However, this is all a side issue to the real problem - that Julian Smith is a liar and so thick he can't even lie convincingly. Clearly he has to go.

The MP should nominate any substitute, not the party.

Mr. D, thought the number was far higher, perhaps twice that. Think it was a million in the highest year, very high the following year, and diminished after that.

Mr. Surby, how could such stats exist? Everyone was let in, without needing documents. Nobody knows where a great many of them are from.

surby said:

RobD said:

dr_spyn said:

Was Jo Swinson not too tired to turn up at that anti Trump demo last Friday but then incapable of turning up to vote in The Commons on Tuesday?

https://www.libdemvoice.org/come-and-join-the-liberal-democrat-antitrump-protest-tomorrow-at-2pm-libdemsagainsttrump-58046.html

Wow, you'd have thought bothering to turn up to a crucial vote would be far more important than going to a Trump demo.

She had a pairing arrangement ! How would she know that Tories can never be trusted ? Well, she should have known.

She could not get a "pair" for the demonstration.

Is that how you deal with important moments in your life, by getting someone else to do it?

Anyway, I thought the whole point of maternity leave was to care for your children.