politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » TMay caves in to the Brexit Taliban over Chequers plan
Comments
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I’d rather have Danny Dyer in the cabinet than Danny Alexander tbh.FrancisUrquhart said:
Bring back Dave, George, Nick and Danny?Jonathan said:Can we have a competent government please?
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There is an element of that but there are many people in part time employment on an involuntary basis who would like longer hours and more secure jobs - including a significant proportion of those forced to accept Zero Hours Contracts.Sean_F said:
I think what's changed is that there are far more women in the workforce now than 50 years ago, and they find that part time jobs suit them.justin124 said:
But that does not contradict the fact of there being hundreds of thousands of people forced to work part time in a way that was not true back in the 1970s. Similarly many have been 'encouraged' to declare themselves self employed and earn peanuts - the Government is not bothered because it gets them off the unemployment register.Mortimer said:
Time for a repeat of that very informative chart that shows that most new employment since 2010 is FTE PAYE positions.ydoethur said:
If I were feeling malicious I could make such a brutal comment about civil servants at the Department for Education...justin124 said:
Many of those in work are in reality only partly employed - working barely in excess of the 16 hours per week required to keep them off the registers and earning very little.rcs1000 said:
Are we? Our employment ratio (15+) on World Bank numbers is 60%, and I suspect it wasn't that high in the 1970s.justin124 said:
Full employment is what we had from 1945 - late 1960s when the jobless figures were well under 500,000 in most years.Moreover , when account is taken of the many 'adjustments' to the figures ,unemployment today remains well above mid-1970s levels - indeed on a like for like basis we are probably still looking at circa 2 million unemployed.currystar said:
So completely useless we have full employment in this Country for this first time in my 50 yearsCarlottaVance said:
I have lost track of the number of times May has been written off as completely useless...yet here she still is, wading grimly on through a mess largely not of her making.....Sean_F said:
One should not underestimate the value of optimism.CarlottaVance said:
Was it Mr Eagles who found it?0 -
It's dave dee dozy beaky mick & tich.0
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Brexit:williamglenn said:
Fred Karno’s Brexit. Roll up, roll up!TheScreamingEagles said:
The gift that keeps on giving0 -
I don't know what would be more exciting, the Gov't being defeated or passing all these amendments.grabcocque said:
Brexit:williamglenn said:
Fred Karno’s Brexit. Roll up, roll up!TheScreamingEagles said:
The gift that keeps on giving
Amusing* Labour is willing to sell out Northern Ireland
* Corbyn lol0 -
It's worse than that. They are even resiling from what the Chakrabarti report recommended and Corbyn agreed to implement, namely, that using "Zio" and "Zio-Nazis" were wrong. This definition will permit this.FrancisUrquhart said:
As was explained in the Jewish Chronicle, all the internationally recognised definitions allow for criticism of Israel, Labour decided in their wisdom to hack those paragraphs out and replace them with their own...its like they don't take this antisemitism stuff seriously or something.Morris_Dancer said:Meanwhile, in the Socialist Party:
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1018904572671221762
Essentially, they are saying that the Jewish desire for a homeland is ipso facto illegitimate. That is pretty damn close to saying that Israel should not exist at all and, frankly, if Corbyn were to become PM I would not be at all surprised if he were to withdraw recognition of Israel.
More worryingly, if having a Jewish homeland is ipso facto racist, why isn't the claim for a Palestinian homeland also racist, not least because the Palestinians have made it crystal clear that Jews, even those born and living within the area to be covered by a Palestinian state would not be allowed to live there?
It also rather ignores the fact that not all Israelis are Jews. According to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, the Arab population in 2013 was estimated at 1,658,000, representing 20.7% of the country's population. The majority of these identify themselves as Arab or Palestinian by nationality and Israeli by citizenship. There are also about 161,000 Israeli citizens practising Christianity, together comprising about 2% of the total population. It's a curious definition of a racist country for it to have as citizens with an equal right to vote, stand for Parliament etc people who do not belong to the majority race. It is, in fact, rather less racist than the position in many Arab countries.
(And, yes, I'm well aware of the utterly deplorable position in the Occupied Territories where Palestinians are not citizens and treated appallingly. But those territories are not part of Israel and the continuation of settlements there is wrong and will make a peace deal very difficult indeed if they continue.)
It is curious that Irish nationalism and Palestinian and Kurdish nationalism, for instance, are beloved by the current Labour leadership but Jewish nationalism is not.0 -
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.FF43 said:The immediate issue is getting a Withdrawal Agreement in place so there is a somewhat orderly Brexit. This in turn depends on the UK signing a NI backstop for customs, which today's amendments formally exclude. So we will hit full-scale crisis this autumn. Either the EU backs down on the backstop (unlikely), or we will have a chaotic Brexit, or we cave into EU demands in the most humiliating circumstances, or Brexit will be delayed indefinitely.
I suspect Mrs May carries on because she knows all the realistic outcomes are disastrous for her and the conservative party and she is sticking her finger into the dyke to keep the flood waters bursting for as long as possible, while hoping someone or something will come along to make the problem go away.
Replacing May by someone competent won't work. It isn't an issue of competence. The problem is Brexit itself.0 -
I think it's fairly obvious by this point that Northern Ireland isn't a real place, it's just some abstract token to be abused for the purpose of political point scoring.Pulpstar said:
I don't know what would be more exciting, the Gov't being defeated or passing all these amendments.grabcocque said:
Brexit:williamglenn said:
Fred Karno’s Brexit. Roll up, roll up!TheScreamingEagles said:
The gift that keeps on giving
Amusing* Labour is willing to sell out Northern Ireland
* Corbyn lol
It's not like it has a history of internecine civil strife that could be exacerbated by this sort of callousness.
...
Oh.0 -
Is that good or bad? I don't have the context to tell. What proportion of the jobs lost in the wake of the crash were full time employment?TheScreamingEagles said:
This one?Mortimer said:
Time for a repeat of that very informative chart that shows that most new employment since 2010 is FTE PAYE positions.ydoethur said:
If I were feeling malicious I could make such a brutal comment about civil servants at the Department for Education...justin124 said:
Many of those in work are in reality only partly employed - working barely in excess of the 16 hours per week required to keep them off the registers and earning very little.rcs1000 said:
Are we? Our employment ratio (15+) on World Bank numbers is 60%, and I suspect it wasn't that high in the 1970s.justin124 said:
Full employment is what we had from 1945 - late 1960s when the jobless figures were well under 500,000 in most years.Moreover , when account is taken of the many 'adjustments' to the figures ,unemployment today remains well above mid-1970s levels - indeed on a like for like basis we are probably still looking at circa 2 million unemployed.currystar said:
So completely useless we have full employment in this Country for this first time in my 50 yearsCarlottaVance said:
I have lost track of the number of times May has been written off as completely useless...yet here she still is, wading grimly on through a mess largely not of her making.....Sean_F said:
One should not underestimate the value of optimism.CarlottaVance said:
Was it Mr Eagles who found it?
The one that shows George’s golden economic legacy.
https://twitter.com/frasernelson/status/1013497661121589248?s=210 -
William_H said:
Do you think it is anti-Semitic to believe that the denial of self determination to the Palestinians was racist? Or to say that the mass ethnic cleansing of Palestinians was racist?Morris_Dancer said:Meanwhile, in the Socialist Party:
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1018904572671221762
Self-determination to the Palestinians was not denied. In 1948 the world - via the UN - offered them a state of their own - see Resolution 181(II).
Was the mass ethnic cleansing of Jews from Egypt, Iraq and other Middle Eastern and North African countries where Jews had lived for thousands of years racist or anti-semitic? Or does that not matter?0 -
There is a clear alternative. The public votes to stay INSean_F said:
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.FF43 said:The immediate issue is getting a Withdrawal Agreement in place so there is a somewhat orderly Brexit. This in turn depends on the UK signing a NI backstop for customs, which today's amendments formally exclude. So we will hit full-scale crisis this autumn. Either the EU backs down on the backstop (unlikely), or we will have a chaotic Brexit, or we cave into EU demands in the most humiliating circumstances, or Brexit will be delayed indefinitely.
I suspect Mrs May carries on because she knows all the realistic outcomes are disastrous for her and the conservative party and she is sticking her finger into the dyke to keep the flood waters bursting for as long as possible, while hoping someone or something will come along to make the problem go away.
Replacing May by someone competent won't work. It isn't an issue of competence. The problem is Brexit itself.0 -
What if they don't?surby said:
There is a clear alternative. The public votes to stay INSean_F said:
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.FF43 said:The immediate issue is getting a Withdrawal Agreement in place so there is a somewhat orderly Brexit. This in turn depends on the UK signing a NI backstop for customs, which today's amendments formally exclude. So we will hit full-scale crisis this autumn. Either the EU backs down on the backstop (unlikely), or we will have a chaotic Brexit, or we cave into EU demands in the most humiliating circumstances, or Brexit will be delayed indefinitely.
I suspect Mrs May carries on because she knows all the realistic outcomes are disastrous for her and the conservative party and she is sticking her finger into the dyke to keep the flood waters bursting for as long as possible, while hoping someone or something will come along to make the problem go away.
Replacing May by someone competent won't work. It isn't an issue of competence. The problem is Brexit itself.0 -
I think a lot of them should go and lie down in a darkened room.....dixiedean said:
More on that here.OchEye said:According to C4 news, reports are coming in that May is trying to force the recess to start on this Thursday instead of Tuesday next week....
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/theresa-may-accused-of-running-scared-of-her-brexiteers-amid-plans-to-let-mps-take-early-summer-break_uk_5b4cbd9ee4b022fdcc5bf0730 -
Preparing accordingly means, among other things, scheduling a border poll in Northern Ireland.Sean_F said:Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.
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The question is, does May know what she's doing?Sean_F said:
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.
If she does, today marks a sharp shift in May's thinking towards a probable no-deal brexit.
The more likely explanation, however, is that she's lost control, has no idea what she's doing, and has simply given up all hope and cast herself unto the tender mercy of the Fates.
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Disturbingly little stick. (You may read that how you will...)dixiedean said:Trump taking some stick at last from Senior Republicans for his entertaining as ever, but jaw-droppingly suspicious performance today.
It has become the party of Trump, and really doesn’t care if he’s sold out to a foreign adversary.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/16/trump-aides-resignation-putin-meeting-7243680 -
No deal.Sean_F said:
What if they don't?surby said:
There is a clear alternative. The public votes to stay INSean_F said:
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.FF43 said:The immediate issue is getting a Withdrawal Agreement in place so there is a somewhat orderly Brexit. This in turn depends on the UK signing a NI backstop for customs, which today's amendments formally exclude. So we will hit full-scale crisis this autumn. Either the EU backs down on the backstop (unlikely), or we will have a chaotic Brexit, or we cave into EU demands in the most humiliating circumstances, or Brexit will be delayed indefinitely.
I suspect Mrs May carries on because she knows all the realistic outcomes are disastrous for her and the conservative party and she is sticking her finger into the dyke to keep the flood waters bursting for as long as possible, while hoping someone or something will come along to make the problem go away.
Replacing May by someone competent won't work. It isn't an issue of competence. The problem is Brexit itself.0 -
An arguable case could be made that it was Jordan and Egypt, by their invasion and annexation of the West Bank and Gaza, that denied the Palestinians self-determination. The Israelis exploited the situation with great skill to enable the capture of far more land than they would otherwise have been allotted, and to cover the expulsion of Palestinians from the areas they captured.Cyclefree said:William_H said:
Do you think it is anti-Semitic to believe that the denial of self determination to the Palestinians was racist? Or to say that the mass ethnic cleansing of Palestinians was racist?Morris_Dancer said:Meanwhile, in the Socialist Party:
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1018904572671221762
Self-determination to the Palestinians was not denied. In 1948 the world - via the UN - offered them a state of their own - see Resolution 181(II).
Was the mass ethnic cleansing of Jews from Egypt, Iraq and other Middle Eastern and North African countries where Jews had lived for thousands of years racist or anti-semitic? Or does that not matter?0 -
As terrible as Brexit is (and political meltdown was one of the clearly predictable outcomes of Leaving), at least our Head of State is not commonly assumed to be in the pay of the Russians.
You read these kinds of things on Twitter, and half discount them, thinking them to be so much hysteria, then you check and discover the author was CIA Director for 4 years.
https://twitter.com/johnbrennan/status/1018885971104985093?s=210 -
Then the UK will be placed in special measures and run by Barry from Eastenders until further notice.Sean_F said:
What if they don't?
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Let's suppose, for the moment, that the referendum is rerun and the question includes an option to remain. Neither is likely to happen for a huge number of reasons, but as a hypothetical scenario we'll entertain it.surby said:
There is a clear alternative. The public votes to stay INSean_F said:
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.FF43 said:The immediate issue is getting a Withdrawal Agreement in place so there is a somewhat orderly Brexit. This in turn depends on the UK signing a NI backstop for customs, which today's amendments formally exclude. So we will hit full-scale crisis this autumn. Either the EU backs down on the backstop (unlikely), or we will have a chaotic Brexit, or we cave into EU demands in the most humiliating circumstances, or Brexit will be delayed indefinitely.
I suspect Mrs May carries on because she knows all the realistic outcomes are disastrous for her and the conservative party and she is sticking her finger into the dyke to keep the flood waters bursting for as long as possible, while hoping someone or something will come along to make the problem go away.
Replacing May by someone competent won't work. It isn't an issue of competence. The problem is Brexit itself.
What happens if - probably when - the country votes to leave again?0 -
I don't necessarily agree with that conclusion. Perhaps May genuinely has advice that these amendments don't inhibit her existing plan, whatever it is.grabcocque said:
The question is, does May know what she's doing?Sean_F said:
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.
If she does, today marks a sharp shift in May's thinking towards a probable no-deal brexit.
The more likely explanation, however, is that she's lost control, has no idea what she's doing, and has simply given up all hope and cast herself unto the tender mercy of the Fates.0 -
Which country? Wales?ydoethur said:
Let's suppose, for the moment, that the referendum is rerun and the question includes an option to remain. Neither is likely to happen for a huge number of reasons, but as a hypothetical scenario we'll entertain it.surby said:
There is a clear alternative. The public votes to stay INSean_F said:
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.FF43 said:The immediate issue is getting a Withdrawal Agreement in place so there is a somewhat orderly Brexit. This in turn depends on the UK signing a NI backstop for customs, which today's amendments formally exclude. So we will hit full-scale crisis this autumn. Either the EU backs down on the backstop (unlikely), or we will have a chaotic Brexit, or we cave into EU demands in the most humiliating circumstances, or Brexit will be delayed indefinitely.
I suspect Mrs May carries on because she knows all the realistic outcomes are disastrous for her and the conservative party and she is sticking her finger into the dyke to keep the flood waters bursting for as long as possible, while hoping someone or something will come along to make the problem go away.
Replacing May by someone competent won't work. It isn't an issue of competence. The problem is Brexit itself.
What happens if - probably when - the country votes to leave again?0 -
Obviously recipricocity is essential, though there is the small matter of needing some sort of customs authentication at the border to ensure honesty. We do have form in that area:rcs1000 said:As an aside, the customs amendment is totally toothless. The EU would love to collect customs duties for us at Rotterdam for UK bound containers. They already do this for the Swiss (and the deal works efficiently for both parties).
https://www.google.ru/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/08/uk-faces-2bn-fine-over-chinese-imports-scam-say-eu-anti-fraud-investigators
Seems unnessicarily bureacratic, but I suppose that is the flipside of sovereignty. Each party having authority is a good job creation scheme for petty officialdom.
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There is no way you, I, or she believes that.williamglenn said:
I don't necessarily agree with that conclusion. Perhaps May genuinely has advice that these amendments don't inhibit her existing plan, whatever it is.grabcocque said:
The question is, does May know what she's doing?Sean_F said:
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.
If she does, today marks a sharp shift in May's thinking towards a probable no-deal brexit.
The more likely explanation, however, is that she's lost control, has no idea what she's doing, and has simply given up all hope and cast herself unto the tender mercy of the Fates.
This explicitly tells the EU to shove their backstop up their arse, one of the vanishingly few things the UK government has managed to achieve agreement on.
We're now further behind in the "negotiations" than we were last December.0 -
No one on here has convincingly suggested they don’t. I’m with Carlotta. It’s the heat, driving people mental.williamglenn said:
I don't necessarily agree with that conclusion. Perhaps May genuinely has advice that these amendments don't inhibit her existing plan, whatever it is.grabcocque said:
The question is, does May know what she's doing?Sean_F said:
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.
If she does, today marks a sharp shift in May's thinking towards a probable no-deal brexit.
The more likely explanation, however, is that she's lost control, has no idea what she's doing, and has simply given up all hope and cast herself unto the tender mercy of the Fates.
That, and the forthcoming economic collapse, subversion of the media by the Russians, and the dissolution of the Union.0 -
I repeat again. No deal. Crash and burn.ydoethur said:
Let's suppose, for the moment, that the referendum is rerun and the question includes an option to remain. Neither is likely to happen for a huge number of reasons, but as a hypothetical scenario we'll entertain it.surby said:
There is a clear alternative. The public votes to stay INSean_F said:
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.FF43 said:The immediate issue is getting a Withdrawal Agreement in place so there is a somewhat orderly Brexit. This in turn depends on the UK signing a NI backstop for customs, which today's amendments formally exclude. So we will hit full-scale crisis this autumn. Either the EU backs down on the backstop (unlikely), or we will have a chaotic Brexit, or we cave into EU demands in the most humiliating circumstances, or Brexit will be delayed indefinitely.
I suspect Mrs May carries on because she knows all the realistic outcomes are disastrous for her and the conservative party and she is sticking her finger into the dyke to keep the flood waters bursting for as long as possible, while hoping someone or something will come along to make the problem go away.
Replacing May by someone competent won't work. It isn't an issue of competence. The problem is Brexit itself.
What happens if - probably when - the country votes to leave again?0 -
Indeed.Sean_F said:I think what's changed is that there are far more women in the workforce now than 50 years ago, and they find that part time jobs suit them.
And it's not just women. If I was to go back to work, then I could probably only realistically work part-time: even with only one child, childcare in holidays and before/after school makes things difficult, even if I went back to contracting.
In t'olden days, family would have helped with childcare. In my case, family are elderly and live two hours' drive away; in Mrs J's case they're in another country. We're fortunate that we could afford a babysitter or childcare for those periods (and they're blooming expensive), but instinctually we don't like that.
Part-time working can be a good choice for many people; it allows them to keep their hand in the workplace whilst kids are growing up (and therefore not have a blank space on their CV), and brings a little money in. It's not all the oppressed peasants Justin's trying to make out.0 -
The Telegraph is bigging up its column from Johnson, just published, "a rallying call to the nation". Since I pay them nothing I can't read it, but maybe someone can post the key bits?0
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Russian pro-gun activist linked to NRA charged with spying in US for Moscow
Maria Butina, 29, arrested on Sunday and appeared before a magistrate in Washington on Monday, according to the DoJ.
A Washington-based pro-gun activist affiliated with the National Rifle Association (NRA) has been charged with spying in the US for Russia.
Maria Butina was charged with conspiracy to act as an agent of the Russian federation within the US without prior notification to the attorney general.
Butina, 29, was arrested on Sunday and appeared before a magistrate in Washington on Monday, according to the US justice department.
She is known as a protege of Alexander Torshin, a Russian former state banker, who met Donald Trump Jr for dinner at the NRA’s 2016 convention. Torshin was placed under sanction by the US in April this year.
A Justice Department press release said Butina had been “developing relationships with US persons and infiltrating organizations having influence in American politics, for the purpose of advancing the interests of the Russian federation.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/16/maria-butina-charged-spying-russia-us-doj0 -
Even I think the NI backstop is a reach. But the UK government isn't serious about customs arrangements and the Irish border specifically,. Which is why the backstop looms ever larger. The context of course is that government doesn't have the numbers, it has a powerful "Taliban" faction to appease and it has to respect a democratic but profoundly stupid referendum decision. None of this is of any concern to the EU.Sean_F said:
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.FF43 said:The immediate issue is getting a Withdrawal Agreement in place so there is a somewhat orderly Brexit. This in turn depends on the UK signing a NI backstop for customs, which today's amendments formally exclude. So we will hit full-scale crisis this autumn. Either the EU backs down on the backstop (unlikely), or we will have a chaotic Brexit, or we cave into EU demands in the most humiliating circumstances, or Brexit will be delayed indefinitely.
I suspect Mrs May carries on because she knows all the realistic outcomes are disastrous for her and the conservative party and she is sticking her finger into the dyke to keep the flood waters bursting for as long as possible, while hoping someone or something will come along to make the problem go away.
Replacing May by someone competent won't work. It isn't an issue of competence. The problem is Brexit itself.0 -
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Sure:IanB2 said:The Telegraph is bigging up its column from Johnson, just published, "a rallying call to the nation". Since I pay them nothing I can't read it, but maybe someone can post the key bits?
blather blather blather THE QUEEN
blather blather blather FISH AND CHIPS
blather blather I AM VERY IMPORTANT
blather blather BIG WORD
blather blather LAND OF HOPE AND GLORY
blather blather Lord Nelson, Lord Beaverbrook, Sir Winston Churchill, Sir Anthony Eden, Clement Attlee, Henry Cooper, Lady Diana, vi har slått dem alle sammen, vi har slått dem alle sammen! We have beaten them all, we have beaten them all! Maggie Thatcher, can you hear me? Maggie Thatcher ... your boys took a hell of a beating! Your boys took a hell of a beating!0 -
Bear in mind that my assumption has always been that the moment she gets a withdrawal agreement text agreed with the EU she'll call a referendum with an option to Remain. In that case she can tell the ERG where to stick their amendment because in the event that the deal were approved, the "will of the people" would ensure any legislation required to implement it would sail through Parliament.grabcocque said:
There is no way you, I, or she believes that.williamglenn said:
I don't necessarily agree with that conclusion. Perhaps May genuinely has advice that these amendments don't inhibit her existing plan, whatever it is.grabcocque said:
The question is, does May know what she's doing?Sean_F said:
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.
If she does, today marks a sharp shift in May's thinking towards a probable no-deal brexit.
The more likely explanation, however, is that she's lost control, has no idea what she's doing, and has simply given up all hope and cast herself unto the tender mercy of the Fates.
This explicitly tells the EU to shove their backstop up their arse, one of the vanishingly few things the UK government has managed to achieve agreement on.
We're now further behind in the "negotiations" than we were last December.0 -
Ignoring the hyperbolic final sentence, I agree with you and Carlotta - I don’t see how these amendments affect Chequers deal at all. If anything, they enhance the British hand (‘can’t accept that change Juncker, as I won’t be able to get it passed my parliament’); they render useless the ‘Irish backstop’ dead cat which was an attempt to nullify Brexit or split the UK. A bonus, as far as I can see it - because the Irish backstop isn’t necessary if Chequers is accepted.Gardenwalker said:
No one on here has convincingly suggested they don’t. I’m with Carlotta. It’s the heat, driving people mental.williamglenn said:
I don't necessarily agree with that conclusion. Perhaps May genuinely has advice that these amendments don't inhibit her existing plan, whatever it is.grabcocque said:
The question is, does May know what she's doing?Sean_F said:
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.
If she does, today marks a sharp shift in May's thinking towards a probable no-deal brexit.
The more likely explanation, however, is that she's lost control, has no idea what she's doing, and has simply given up all hope and cast herself unto the tender mercy of the Fates.
That, and the forthcoming economic collapse, subversion of the media by the Russians, and the dissolution of the Union.
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It's deluded nonsense. He says that we will trade with the EU more than ever before after Brexit, that Global Britain means using our hard and soft power to open new markets, and that elites around the world look on in awe at the prospect of Brexit Britain being unleashed.IanB2 said:The Telegraph is bigging up its column from Johnson, just published, "a rallying call to the nation". Since I pay them nothing I can't read it, but maybe someone can post the key bits?
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Where's Eugene McCarthy when his country needs him?TheScreamingEagles said:Russian pro-gun activist linked to NRA charged with spying in US for Moscow
Maria Butina, 29, arrested on Sunday and appeared before a magistrate in Washington on Monday, according to the DoJ.
A Washington-based pro-gun activist affiliated with the National Rifle Association (NRA) has been charged with spying in the US for Russia.
Maria Butina was charged with conspiracy to act as an agent of the Russian federation within the US without prior notification to the attorney general.
Butina, 29, was arrested on Sunday and appeared before a magistrate in Washington on Monday, according to the US justice department.
She is known as a protege of Alexander Torshin, a Russian former state banker, who met Donald Trump Jr for dinner at the NRA’s 2016 convention. Torshin was placed under sanction by the US in April this year.
A Justice Department press release said Butina had been “developing relationships with US persons and infiltrating organizations having influence in American politics, for the purpose of advancing the interests of the Russian federation.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/16/maria-butina-charged-spying-russia-us-doj0 -
What is rather more disturbing is that the US President (who is suspected, not absurdly, of being a puppet of Putin) is parroting the talking points of the Russian head of state.TheScreamingEagles said:Russian pro-gun activist linked to NRA charged with spying in US for Moscow
Maria Butina, 29, arrested on Sunday and appeared before a magistrate in Washington on Monday, according to the DoJ.
A Washington-based pro-gun activist affiliated with the National Rifle Association (NRA) has been charged with spying in the US for Russia.
Maria Butina was charged with conspiracy to act as an agent of the Russian federation within the US without prior notification to the attorney general.
Butina, 29, was arrested on Sunday and appeared before a magistrate in Washington on Monday, according to the US justice department.
She is known as a protege of Alexander Torshin, a Russian former state banker, who met Donald Trump Jr for dinner at the NRA’s 2016 convention. Torshin was placed under sanction by the US in April this year.
A Justice Department press release said Butina had been “developing relationships with US persons and infiltrating organizations having influence in American politics, for the purpose of advancing the interests of the Russian federation.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/16/maria-butina-charged-spying-russia-us-doj
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It will be if UK walks away - disaster for everyone but a move that could receive backing from the UK electorate who will see the EU as the causeFF43 said:
Even I think the NI backstop is a reach. But the UK government isn't serious about customs arrangements and the Irish border specifically,. Which is why the backstop looms ever larger. The context of course is that government doesn't have the numbers, it has a powerful "Taliban" faction to appease and it has to respect a democratic but profoundly stupid referendum decision. None of this is of any concern to the EU.Sean_F said:
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.FF43 said:The immediate issue is getting a Withdrawal Agreement in place so there is a somewhat orderly Brexit. This in turn depends on the UK signing a NI backstop for customs, which today's amendments formally exclude. So we will hit full-scale crisis this autumn. Either the EU backs down on the backstop (unlikely), or we will have a chaotic Brexit, or we cave into EU demands in the most humiliating circumstances, or Brexit will be delayed indefinitely.
I suspect Mrs May carries on because she knows all the realistic outcomes are disastrous for her and the conservative party and she is sticking her finger into the dyke to keep the flood waters bursting for as long as possible, while hoping someone or something will come along to make the problem go away.
Replacing May by someone competent won't work. It isn't an issue of competence. The problem is Brexit itself.0 -
People already voted once, to trigger article 50 and leave the EU.Sean_F said:
What if they don't?surby said:
There is a clear alternative. The public votes to stay INSean_F said:
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.FF43 said:The immediate issue is getting a Withdrawal Agreement in place so there is a somewhat orderly Brexit. This in turn depends on the UK signing a NI backstop for customs, which today's amendments formally exclude. So we will hit full-scale crisis this autumn. Either the EU backs down on the backstop (unlikely), or we will have a chaotic Brexit, or we cave into EU demands in the most humiliating circumstances, or Brexit will be delayed indefinitely.
I suspect Mrs May carries on because she knows all the realistic outcomes are disastrous for her and the conservative party and she is sticking her finger into the dyke to keep the flood waters bursting for as long as possible, while hoping someone or something will come along to make the problem go away.
Replacing May by someone competent won't work. It isn't an issue of competence. The problem is Brexit itself.
As much as I might like to remain in the EU, having campaigned to remain, and seen the amount of passion about leaving the EU (vs the complete lack of enthusiasm for it), I would take a no deal brexit over an engineered reversal of the referendum result via another vote. It would take us to the brink of a civil war.
It strikes me that the government need to get on with preparing for no deal, and trying to facilitate a transition to it, because the two sides are so far apart that there is no reasonable prospect of any agreement.
0 -
He is right.williamglenn said:
It's deluded nonsense. He says that we will trade with the EU more than ever before after Brexit, that Global Britain means using our hard and soft power to open new markets, and that elites around the world look on in awe at the prospect of Brexit Britain being unleashed.IanB2 said:The Telegraph is bigging up its column from Johnson, just published, "a rallying call to the nation". Since I pay them nothing I can't read it, but maybe someone can post the key bits?
Many, many are looking on in awe...0 -
I appreciate that politically this would suit you, but (1) do you have any evidence that has allowed you to infer this is May's super-cunning plan, (2) do you think if she suddenly pulled this trick out of the bag, she would be leader of the Conservative Party and Prime Minister, say, one week after announcing her proposal?williamglenn said:Bear in mind that my assumption has always been that the moment she gets a withdrawal agreement text agreed with the EU she'll call a referendum with an option to Remain.
0 -
For about three hours before the true horror of the no-deal reality starts to dawn.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It will be if UK walks away - disaster for everyone but a move that could receive backing from the UK electorate who will see the EU as the cause
0 -
Indeed Mrs Foxy enjoys her ZHC. she works an average of 3 days per week, but can take as much time off as she wants, and can within reason pick her working days. It is much easier with the smoothing effect of my salary mind you.JosiasJessop said:
Indeed.Sean_F said:I think what's changed is that there are far more women in the workforce now than 50 years ago, and they find that part time jobs suit them.
And it's not just women. If I was to go back to work, then I could probably only realistically work part-time: even with only one child, childcare in holidays and before/after school makes things difficult, even if I went back to contracting.
In t'olden days, family would have helped with childcare. In my case, family are elderly and live two hours' drive away; in Mrs J's case they're in another country. We're fortunate that we could afford a babysitter or childcare for those periods (and they're blooming expensive), but instinctually we don't like that.
Part-time working can be a good choice for many people; it allows them to keep their hand in the workplace whilst kids are growing up (and therefore not have a blank space on their CV), and brings a little money in. It's not all the oppressed peasants Justin's trying to make out.0 -
The big Boris reveal was his speech at Chatham House in October last year. It was flagged as the Brexit vision.williamglenn said:
It's deluded nonsense. He says that we will trade with the EU more than ever before after Brexit, that Global Britain means using our hard and soft power to open new markets, and that elites around the world look on in awe at the prospect of Brexit Britain being unleashed.IanB2 said:The Telegraph is bigging up its column from Johnson, just published, "a rallying call to the nation". Since I pay them nothing I can't read it, but maybe someone can post the key bits?
Instead, Boris guffawed his way through jokes about what happens on wedding nights.
As was once said about LA, the thing about Boris is there’s no “there” there.0 -
I think she might be after the sympathy vote. The French can't deal with a tearful woman even one over 60. A few tears and Barnier will melt then sign on the dotted lineBig_G_NorthWales said:How many of my fellow posters believe TM is lining herself up to walk out if the EU try to reject her deal
0 -
How much is Brexit costing?
I’m not even talking lost investment. I’m talking about the fact that it has consumed the entire machinery of government (and media, too).0 -
It is William altering the narrative to suit his cause. He is entitled to his opinion but the way no 10 put down Justine Greening' move for a second referendum today was withering and TM would be out the minute she tried itMyBurningEars said:
I appreciate that politically this would suit you, but (1) do you have any evidence that has allowed you to infer this is May's super-cunning plan, (2) do you think if she suddenly pulled this trick out of the bag, she would be leader of the Conservative Party and Prime Minister, say, one week after announcing her proposal?williamglenn said:Bear in mind that my assumption has always been that the moment she gets a withdrawal agreement text agreed with the EU she'll call a referendum with an option to Remain.
0 -
Certainly, talking with other nations football fans in Russia has met with complete bafflement as to what Brexit is for. I have sadly been unable to enlighten them!dixiedean said:
He is right.williamglenn said:
It's deluded nonsense. He says that we will trade with the EU more than ever before after Brexit, that Global Britain means using our hard and soft power to open new markets, and that elites around the world look on in awe at the prospect of Brexit Britain being unleashed.IanB2 said:The Telegraph is bigging up its column from Johnson, just published, "a rallying call to the nation". Since I pay them nothing I can't read it, but maybe someone can post the key bits?
Many, many are looking on in awe...
Much interest in wider British, European and American culture here. On the corner of my hotel is a retro US Diner called Beverly Hills, and a decent pizza parlour.0 -
If there's a second referendum it's absolutely not going to be May's decision, though I'm sure May knows this.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is William altering the narrative to suit his cause. He is entitled to his opinion but the way no 10 put down Justine Greening' move for a second referendum today was withering and TM would be out the minute she tried itMyBurningEars said:
I appreciate that politically this would suit you, but (1) do you have any evidence that has allowed you to infer this is May's super-cunning plan, (2) do you think if she suddenly pulled this trick out of the bag, she would be leader of the Conservative Party and Prime Minister, say, one week after announcing her proposal?williamglenn said:Bear in mind that my assumption has always been that the moment she gets a withdrawal agreement text agreed with the EU she'll call a referendum with an option to Remain.
0 -
BREAKING: Southgate’s achievements with England have been recognised by TfL with Southgate tube station being temporarily rebranded as ‘Gareth Southgate’ for 48 hours from Monday.0
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I fear many just do not care - and that is a very serious problemgrabcocque said:
For about three hours before the true horror of the no-deal reality starts to dawn.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It will be if UK walks away - disaster for everyone but a move that could receive backing from the UK electorate who will see the EU as the cause0 -
Sadly the French have out down us.IanB2 said:BREAKING: Southgate’s achievements with England have been recognised by TfL with Southgate tube station being temporarily rebranded as ‘Gareth Southgate’ for 48 hours from Monday.
https://twitter.com/SportPesa_UK/status/10188086486619545610 -
Although in a sense it doesn't matter whether we're in the EU or not, I'm ashamed that our legislature is spending an unlimited time on something that is essentially unnecessary, while we have an ever increasing number of people living on our streets.Gardenwalker said:How much is Brexit costing?
I’m not even talking lost investment. I’m talking about the fact that it has consumed the entire machinery of government (and media, too).0 -
It seems to me that for EU negotiators to use the threat of renewed violence in Northern Ireland as a way of trying to extract concessions from the government is irresponsible in the extreme. Terrorism is not something you can confine to one locality.FF43 said:
Even I think the NI backstop is a reach. But the UK government isn't serious about customs arrangements and the Irish border specifically,. Which is why the backstop looms ever larger. The context of course is that government doesn't have the numbers, it has a powerful "Taliban" faction to appease and it has to respect a democratic but profoundly stupid referendum decision. None of this is of any concern to the EU.Sean_F said:
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.FF43 said:The immediate issue is getting a Withdrawal Agreement in place so there is a somewhat orderly Brexit. This in turn depends on the UK signing a NI backstop for customs, which today's amendments formally exclude. So we will hit full-scale crisis this autumn. Either the EU backs down on the backstop (unlikely), or we will have a chaotic Brexit, or we cave into EU demands in the most humiliating circumstances, or Brexit will be delayed indefinitely.
I suspect Mrs May carries on because she knows all the realistic outcomes are disastrous for her and the conservative party and she is sticking her finger into the dyke to keep the flood waters bursting for as long as possible, while hoping someone or something will come along to make the problem go away.
Replacing May by someone competent won't work. It isn't an issue of competence. The problem is Brexit itself.0 -
That’s not a squirrel, it’s a rat.Pulpstar said:Look squirrel !
https://twitter.com/VP/status/1018937949738582026
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This is why I'm siding with TSE on this. No deal brexit, and the ensuing chaos MUST be allowed to happen.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I fear many just do not care - and that is a very serious problemgrabcocque said:
For about three hours before the true horror of the no-deal reality starts to dawn.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It will be if UK walks away - disaster for everyone but a move that could receive backing from the UK electorate who will see the EU as the cause
We have to follow this rabbit hole of stupid all the way to the bottom. It's the only way to lance this boil.0 -
I do not expect her to do that at all.Roger said:
I think she might be after the sympathy vote. The French can't deal with a tearful woman even one over 60. A few tears and Barnier will melt then sign on the dotted lineBig_G_NorthWales said:How many of my fellow posters believe TM is lining herself up to walk out if the EU try to reject her deal
I expect Barnier himself is going to face serious questions if we walk out.
And maybe the 27 will see sense but maybe not, who knows0 -
The French will probably firebomb theirs in "celebration"....TheScreamingEagles said:
Sadly the French have out down us.IanB2 said:BREAKING: Southgate’s achievements with England have been recognised by TfL with Southgate tube station being temporarily rebranded as ‘Gareth Southgate’ for 48 hours from Monday.
twitter.com/SportPesa_UK/status/10188086486619545610 -
The EU27 isn't about to interrupt an enemy when it's making a mistake.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not expect her to do that at all.Roger said:
I think she might be after the sympathy vote. The French can't deal with a tearful woman even one over 60. A few tears and Barnier will melt then sign on the dotted lineBig_G_NorthWales said:How many of my fellow posters believe TM is lining herself up to walk out if the EU try to reject her deal
I expect Barnier himself is going to face serious questions if we walk out.
And maybe the 27 will see sense but maybe not, who knows0 -
Would have liked to see Harry-on-the-Hill, too.TheScreamingEagles said:
Sadly the French have out down us.IanB2 said:BREAKING: Southgate’s achievements with England have been recognised by TfL with Southgate tube station being temporarily rebranded as ‘Gareth Southgate’ for 48 hours from Monday.
https://twitter.com/SportPesa_UK/status/1018808648661954561
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We started it threatening Europe's security for a good Brexit deal.Sean_F said:
It seems to me that for EU negotiators to use the threat of renewed violence in Northern Ireland as a way of trying to extract concessions from the government is irresponsible in the extreme. Terrorism is not something you can confine to one locality.
Theresa May warned European leaders that failure to reach a comprehensive Brexit agreement will result in a weakening of cooperation on crime and security, triggering accusations that her remarks amounted to blackmail.
Senior figures in Brussels complained about the prime minister’s remarks, while critics in Westminster also piled in, arguing that the prime minister had issued a “blatant threat” and was treating security as a “bargaining chip” in negotiations.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/29/brexit-eu-condemns-mays-blackmail-over-security-cooperation0 -
So at least there is something by way of upside?Gardenwalker said:How much is Brexit costing?
I’m not even talking lost investment. I’m talking about the fact that it has consumed the entire machinery of government (and media, too).0 -
The difference between Brennan and 99.999999% of people commenting about this issue is that Brennan would have seen the intelligence from the CIA and other agencies (US and allies) when this whole issue of Russian interference and collusion kicked off.Gardenwalker said:As terrible as Brexit is (and political meltdown was one of the clearly predictable outcomes of Leaving), at least our Head of State is not commonly assumed to be in the pay of the Russians.
You read these kinds of things on Twitter, and half discount them, thinking them to be so much hysteria, then you check and discover the author was CIA Director for 4 years.
https://twitter.com/johnbrennan/status/1018885971104985093?s=21
Since leaving office Brennan has be unequivocal in his condemnation of Trump, but he can't talk about classified information. Taking that into account, and what Brennan has been saying, the things he will have seen about Trump must be absolutely damning.
It's also worth bearing in mind the intelligence doesn't generally turn into evidence that can be used in a court of law, for a host of reasons. So Brennan may have seen intelligence that is worse than anything we are ever likely to see disclosed.
People who ought to be "in the know" are essentially saying the US President is acting in the interest of Russia and against his own goverment.
If the alarm bells aren't ringing now I dread to think what it will take for them to sound.
0 -
Yup, No Deal Brexit will destroy British eurosceptism for a century if not forever.grabcocque said:
This is why I'm siding with TSE on this. No deal brexit, and the ensuing chaos MUST be allowed to happen.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I fear many just do not care - and that is a very serious problemgrabcocque said:
For about three hours before the true horror of the no-deal reality starts to dawn.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It will be if UK walks away - disaster for everyone but a move that could receive backing from the UK electorate who will see the EU as the cause
We have to follow this rabbit hole of stupid all the way to the bottom. It's the only way to lance this boil.
Plus it will screw the Leaver voters as their tax credits are abolished as the government cannot afford them any more.
What's not to love?0 -
Was having a discussion about this in the comments thread over on another blog earlier today. Someone else was suggesting that a lot of social problems including support for young parents would be cured if we lived as extended families, either in bigger households or living next door or thereabouts.JosiasJessop said:
If I was to go back to work, then I could probably only realistically work part-time: even with only one child, childcare in holidays and before/after school makes things difficult, even if I went back to contracting.
In t'olden days, family would have helped with childcare. In my case, family are elderly and live two hours' drive away; in Mrs J's case they're in another country. We're fortunate that we could afford a babysitter or childcare for those periods (and they're blooming expensive), but instinctually we don't like that.
I pointed out that children these days tend to live further from their parents (particularly if they move away for uni/college and then a job), that for many people family relations with their parents are complicated by family breakup, and the housing stock is not well-suited to that kind of arrangement. Moreover, the fact that people are having their children later in life means that grandparents are even older too, as you pointed out.
Nevertheless I can't help thinking that they had a point....0 -
So it is OK for the EU to threaten us but not for us to hit backTheScreamingEagles said:
We started it threatening Europe's security for a good Brexit deal.Sean_F said:
It seems to me that for EU negotiators to use the threat of renewed violence in Northern Ireland as a way of trying to extract concessions from the government is irresponsible in the extreme. Terrorism is not something you can confine to one locality.
Theresa May warned European leaders that failure to reach a comprehensive Brexit agreement will result in a weakening of cooperation on crime and security, triggering accusations that her remarks amounted to blackmail.
Senior figures in Brussels complained about the prime minister’s remarks, while critics in Westminster also piled in, arguing that the prime minister had issued a “blatant threat” and was treating security as a “bargaining chip” in negotiations.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/29/brexit-eu-condemns-mays-blackmail-over-security-cooperation0 -
But, Brussels has made clear that it does not wish to co-operate on these issues, so the point is moot.TheScreamingEagles said:
We started it threatening Europe's security for a good Brexit deal.Sean_F said:
It seems to me that for EU negotiators to use the threat of renewed violence in Northern Ireland as a way of trying to extract concessions from the government is irresponsible in the extreme. Terrorism is not something you can confine to one locality.
Theresa May warned European leaders that failure to reach a comprehensive Brexit agreement will result in a weakening of cooperation on crime and security, triggering accusations that her remarks amounted to blackmail.
Senior figures in Brussels complained about the prime minister’s remarks, while critics in Westminster also piled in, arguing that the prime minister had issued a “blatant threat” and was treating security as a “bargaining chip” in negotiations.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/29/brexit-eu-condemns-mays-blackmail-over-security-cooperation0 -
Aren't contributions supposed to be ~ 4 minutes or so now ?0
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The only way I can make anything akin to sense of the government's approach on a number of issues is if following Brexit on WTO terms they intend to carry out their threat to make the UK the Singapore of Europe, with complete free trade with everyone including the EU.Sean_F said:
It seems to me that for EU negotiators to use the threat of renewed violence in Northern Ireland as a way of trying to extract concessions from the government is irresponsible in the extreme. Terrorism is not something you can confine to one locality.FF43 said:
Even I think the NI backstop is a reach. But the UK government isn't serious about customs arrangements and the Irish border specifically,. Which is why the backstop looms ever larger. The context of course is that government doesn't have the numbers, it has a powerful "Taliban" faction to appease and it has to respect a democratic but profoundly stupid referendum decision. None of this is of any concern to the EU.Sean_F said:
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.FF43 said:The immediate issue is getting a Withdrawal Agreement in place so there is a somewhat orderly Brexit. This in turn depends on the UK signing a NI backstop for customs, which today's amendments formally exclude. So we will hit full-scale crisis this autumn. Either the EU backs down on the backstop (unlikely), or we will have a chaotic Brexit, or we cave into EU demands in the most humiliating circumstances, or Brexit will be delayed indefinitely.
I suspect Mrs May carries on because she knows all the realistic outcomes are disastrous for her and the conservative party and she is sticking her finger into the dyke to keep the flood waters bursting for as long as possible, while hoping someone or something will come along to make the problem go away.
Replacing May by someone competent won't work. It isn't an issue of competence. The problem is Brexit itself.
At that moment, the EU requirement for NI to be in the same Customs system as the EU is met, as the border checks will be zero. However, that leaves the EU with an extremely nasty problem as they will be unable to impose customs arrangements of their own in the Irish Sea without our help and cannot do so on the land border without breaking their word. Simultaneously they cannot do nothing or they will have to open the borders with Russia too.
I don't think it's a good plan, in fact as plans go I think any British Prime Minister would be insane to even attempt it. Sadly, for that very reason I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion it is indeed May's plan.0 -
Republican Senator says "Russians are not our friends."TheScreamingEagles said:
That passes for news these days, eh?0 -
The real difficulties in Brexit negotiations began when the Council ceded control to the Commission, which they did by waving through Barnier's appointment when they should have vetoed it and told Juncker to start observing these things we have called 'laws.'Big_G_NorthWales said:
So it is OK for the EU to threaten us but not for us to hit backTheScreamingEagles said:
We started it threatening Europe's security for a good Brexit deal.Sean_F said:
It seems to me that for EU negotiators to use the threat of renewed violence in Northern Ireland as a way of trying to extract concessions from the government is irresponsible in the extreme. Terrorism is not something you can confine to one locality.
Theresa May warned European leaders that failure to reach a comprehensive Brexit agreement will result in a weakening of cooperation on crime and security, triggering accusations that her remarks amounted to blackmail.
Senior figures in Brussels complained about the prime minister’s remarks, while critics in Westminster also piled in, arguing that the prime minister had issued a “blatant threat” and was treating security as a “bargaining chip” in negotiations.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/29/brexit-eu-condemns-mays-blackmail-over-security-cooperation
The Commission are both bullies and ideologues (and also less than brilliantly intelligent). Not a good combination. They whine and posture, often at the same time, and blame everyone else for the shambles they themselves have created. Cowardice and stupidity are making matters worse than they need to be, and they were bad enough to start with.
So yes, from the EC's point of view they should be allowed to threaten us and run howling to mummy when we reciprocate.0 -
I think they do - albeit a minor one.MyBurningEars said:
Was having a discussion about this in the comments thread over on another blog earlier today. Someone else was suggesting that a lot of social problems including support for young parents would be cured if we lived as extended families, either in bigger households or living next door or thereabouts.
I pointed out that children these days tend to live further from their parents (particularly if they move away for uni/college and then a job), that for many people family relations with their parents are complicated by family breakup, and the housing stock is not well-suited to that kind of arrangement. Moreover, the fact that people are having their children later in life means that grandparents are even older too, as you pointed out.
Nevertheless I can't help thinking that they had a point....
Take my family. My parents had three kids. One is involved with farming, so has to live in the country (and near their farming contacts in Staffordshire). Another is in engineering and can base himself pretty much anywhere. I went into tech and was pretty much Cambridge or M4-corridor bound. As it happens, my siblings live close to one another, whilst I am relatively far away.
It would be hard for my parents to be in two different places 100 miles or so apart, and living near them would have been restrictive for all of us kids in terms of jobs.
I accept this as a consequence of the job I wanted (and the job my wife now has). It was a choice.0 -
Sky confirming government looking to bring recess forward to Thursday0
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TMay doesn't have a plan
ERG don't have a plan
Tory Remainers don't have a plan
Labour doesn't have a plan
The Lib Dems don't have a plan
If the SNP have a plan I certainly don't know what it is
I#'m starting to doubt the E Commission have a plan, just so far they haven't needed one
0 -
Indeed - nailed itTheWhiteRabbit said:TMay doesn't have a plan
ERG don't have a plan
Tory Remainers don't have a plan
Labour doesn't have a plan
The Lib Dems don't have a plan
If the SNP have a plan I certainly don't know what it is
I#'m starting to doubt the E Commission have a plan, just so far they haven't needed one0 -
Some of us don’t have a century to watch it all pan out.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, No Deal Brexit will destroy British eurosceptism for a century if not forever.grabcocque said:
This is why I'm siding with TSE on this. No deal brexit, and the ensuing chaos MUST be allowed to happen.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I fear many just do not care - and that is a very serious problemgrabcocque said:
For about three hours before the true horror of the no-deal reality starts to dawn.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It will be if UK walks away - disaster for everyone but a move that could receive backing from the UK electorate who will see the EU as the cause
We have to follow this rabbit hole of stupid all the way to the bottom. It's the only way to lance this boil.
Plus it will screw the Leaver voters as their tax credits are abolished as the government cannot afford them any more.
What's not to love?
0 -
If we have a few weeks of no deal Brexit we'll have rejoined the EU within a decade.Nigelb said:
Some of us don’t have a century to watch it all pan out.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, No Deal Brexit will destroy British eurosceptism for a century if not forever.grabcocque said:
This is why I'm siding with TSE on this. No deal brexit, and the ensuing chaos MUST be allowed to happen.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I fear many just do not care - and that is a very serious problemgrabcocque said:
For about three hours before the true horror of the no-deal reality starts to dawn.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It will be if UK walks away - disaster for everyone but a move that could receive backing from the UK electorate who will see the EU as the cause
We have to follow this rabbit hole of stupid all the way to the bottom. It's the only way to lance this boil.
Plus it will screw the Leaver voters as their tax credits are abolished as the government cannot afford them any more.
What's not to love?0 -
Or indeed large funds or foreign employment opportunities to fall back on.Nigelb said:
Some of us don’t have a century to watch it all pan out.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, No Deal Brexit will destroy British eurosceptism for a century if not forever.grabcocque said:
This is why I'm siding with TSE on this. No deal brexit, and the ensuing chaos MUST be allowed to happen.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I fear many just do not care - and that is a very serious problemgrabcocque said:
For about three hours before the true horror of the no-deal reality starts to dawn.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It will be if UK walks away - disaster for everyone but a move that could receive backing from the UK electorate who will see the EU as the cause
We have to follow this rabbit hole of stupid all the way to the bottom. It's the only way to lance this boil.
Plus it will screw the Leaver voters as their tax credits are abolished as the government cannot afford them any more.
What's not to love?0 -
MPs to vote tomorrow to give themselves a longer holiday !!!!Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky confirming government looking to bring recess forward to Thursday
Maybe they should not come back0 -
The EU is not using the threat of renewed violence as a negotiating tactic.and it is rather more irresponsible of our side to imply it is.. The Irish border is a genuinely tricky issue that the UK government thinks it can make go away by downplaying the implications. The EU is running with the issue because it is the key concern of Ireland, a continuing member state whose interests the EU represents. The moment the UK comes up with a solution satisfactory to the Irish the EU will sign off. The UK would be advised to engage the Irish but is not doing that at all.Sean_F said:
It seems to me that for EU negotiators to use the threat of renewed violence in Northern Ireland as a way of trying to extract concessions from the government is irresponsible in the extreme. Terrorism is not something you can confine to one locality.FF43 said:
Even I think the NI backstop is a reach. But the UK government isn't serious about customs arrangements and the Irish border specifically,. Which is why the backstop looms ever larger. The context of course is that government doesn't have the numbers, it has a powerful "Taliban" faction to appease and it has to respect a democratic but profoundly stupid referendum decision. None of this is of any concern to the EU.Sean_F said:
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.FF43 said:The immediate issue is getting a Withdrawal Agreement in place so there is a somewhat orderly Brexit. This in turn depends on the UK signing a NI backstop for customs, which today's amendments formally exclude. So we will hit full-scale crisis this autumn. Either the EU backs down on the backstop (unlikely), or we will have a chaotic Brexit, or we cave into EU demands in the most humiliating circumstances, or Brexit will be delayed indefinitely.
I suspect Mrs May carries on because she knows all the realistic outcomes are disastrous for her and the conservative party and she is sticking her finger into the dyke to keep the flood waters bursting for as long as possible, while hoping someone or something will come along to make the problem go away.
Replacing May by someone competent won't work. It isn't an issue of competence. The problem is Brexit itself.
On the practicalities a customs border on the Irish Sea makes more sense than on the land border. Most people in Northern Ireland agree. But I do think that decision is for the UK to make.0 -
Benjamin Mendy won A Premier League Winners Medal A Caraboo Cup Winners Medal A World Cup Winners Medal and The Legion of Honour and he only played in seven games all season. If they named an Airport after him I wouldn't be at all surprised.IanB2 said:BREAKING: Southgate’s achievements with England have been recognised by TfL with Southgate tube station being temporarily rebranded as ‘Gareth Southgate’ for 48 hours from Monday.
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Given 80% of NI trade is intra UK, this isn’t a sensible solution.FF43 said:
The EU is not using the threat of renewed violence as a negotiating tactic.and it is rather more irresponsible of our side to imply it is.. The Irish border is a genuinely tricky issue that the UK government thinks it can make go away by downplaying the implications. The EU is running with the issue because it is the key concern of Ireland, a continuing member state whose interests the EU represents. The moment the UK comes up with a solution satisfactory to the Irish the EU will sign off. The UK would be advised to engage the Irish but is not doing that at all.Sean_F said:
It seems to me that for EU negotiators to use the threat of renewed violence in Northern Ireland as a way of trying to extract concessions from the government is irresponsible in the extreme. Terrorism is not something you can confine to one locality.FF43 said:
Even I think the NI backstop is a reach. But the UK government isn't serious about customs arrangements and the Irish border specifically,. Which is why the backstop looms ever larger. The context of course is that government doesn't have the numbers, it has a powerful "Taliban" faction to appease and it has to respect a democratic but profoundly stupid referendum decision. None of this is of any concern to the EU.Sean_F said:
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.FF43 said:The immediate issue is getting a Withdrawal Agreement in place so there is a somewhat orderly Brexit. This in turn depends on the UK signing a NI backstop for customs, which today's amendments formally exclude. So we will hit full-scale crisis this autumn. Either the EU backs down on the backstop (unlikely), or we will have a chaotic Brexit, or we cave into EU demands in the most humiliating circumstances, or Brexit will be delayed indefinitely.
I suspect Mrs May carries on because she knows all the realistic outcomes are disastrous for her and the conservative party and she is sticking her finger into the dyke to keep the flood waters bursting for as long as possible, while hoping someone or something will come along to make the problem go away.
Replacing May by someone competent won't work. It isn't an issue of competence. The problem is Brexit itself.
On the practicalities a customs border on the Irish Sea makes more sense than on the land border. Most people in Northern Ireland agree. But I do think that decision is for the UK to make.0 -
May trying to stop any more laws being passed to reverse Chequers by shutting down parliament early?Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky confirming government looking to bring recess forward to Thursday
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I do not think there is anything beyond tomorrow in that respectDavid_Evershed said:
May trying to stop any more laws being passed to reverse Chequers by shutting down parliament early?Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky confirming government looking to bring recess forward to Thursday
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I assume that the browner and smellier the Brex-shit, the sooner we'll re-join.dixiedean said:
Or indeed large funds or foreign employment opportunities to fall back on.Nigelb said:
Some of us don’t have a century to watch it all pan out.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, No Deal Brexit will destroy British eurosceptism for a century if not forever.grabcocque said:
This is why I'm siding with TSE on this. No deal brexit, and the ensuing chaos MUST be allowed to happen.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I fear many just do not care - and that is a very serious problemgrabcocque said:
For about three hours before the true horror of the no-deal reality starts to dawn.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It will be if UK walks away - disaster for everyone but a move that could receive backing from the UK electorate who will see the EU as the cause
We have to follow this rabbit hole of stupid all the way to the bottom. It's the only way to lance this boil.
Plus it will screw the Leaver voters as their tax credits are abolished as the government cannot afford them any more.
What's not to love?
Make it within my lifetime, please.0 -
No more votes on the matter after tonight; it's about time for plottingDavid_Evershed said:
May trying to stop any more laws being passed to reverse Chequers by shutting down parliament early?Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky confirming government looking to bring recess forward to Thursday
n.b. The Spanish sent a young general called Franco to the Canary Islands to keep him out of trouble...0 -
Presumably that's what next week's meeting is about.FF43 said:
The EU is not using the threat of renewed violence as a negotiating tactic.and it is rather more irresponsible of our side to imply it is.. The Irish border is a genuinely tricky issue that the UK government thinks it can make go away by downplaying the implications. The EU is running with the issue because it is the key concern of Ireland, a continuing member state whose interests the EU represents. The moment the UK comes up with a solution satisfactory to the Irish the EU will sign off. The UK would be advised to engage the Irish but is not doing that at all.Sean_F said:
It seems to me that for EU negotiators to use the threat of renewed violence in Northern Ireland as a way of trying to extract concessions from the government is irresponsible in the extreme. Terrorism is not something you can confine to one locality.FF43 said:
Even I think the NI backstop is a reach. But the UK government isn't serious about customs arrangements and the Irish border specifically,. Which is why the backstop looms ever larger. The context of course is that government doesn't have the numbers, it has a powerful "Taliban" faction to appease and it has to respect a democratic but profoundly stupid referendum decision. None of this is of any concern to the EU.Sean_F said:
Since no government will accept an internal customs border, and since this is a deal-breaker for the EU, would it not be best for both sides to acknowledge that there cannot be a deal, and plan accordingly.FF43 said:The immediate issue is getting a Withdrawal Agreement in place so there is a somewhat orderly Brexit. This in turn depends on the UK signing a NI backstop for customs, which today's amendments formally exclude. So we will hit full-scale crisis this autumn. Either the EU backs down on the backstop (unlikely), or we will have a chaotic Brexit, or we cave into EU demands in the most humiliating circumstances, or Brexit will be delayed indefinitely.
I suspect Mrs May carries on because she knows all the realistic outcomes are disastrous for her and the conservative party and she is sticking her finger into the dyke to keep the flood waters bursting for as long as possible, while hoping someone or something will come along to make the problem go away.
Replacing May by someone competent won't work. It isn't an issue of competence. The problem is Brexit itself.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/britishirish-intergovernmental-conference-set-to-take-place-next-month-37061723.html0 -
1st Division - 27 maj for the Gov't/0
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Not a full house in the chamber, clearlyPulpstar said:1st Division - 27 maj for the Gov't/
I think 27 is pretty good for the gov't - not too many Tory Remainers voting with Labour0 -
And they didn't even have Twitter in those days...apart from the canaries, I suppose.TheWhiteRabbit said:
No more votes on the matter after tonight; it's about time for plottingDavid_Evershed said:
May trying to stop any more laws being passed to reverse Chequers by shutting down parliament early?Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky confirming government looking to bring recess forward to Thursday
n.b. The Spanish sent a young general called Franco to the Canary Islands to keep him out of trouble...0 -
Staying in Customs Union amendment defeated, Govt win.
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316 - 289TheWhiteRabbit said:
Not a full house in the chamber, clearlyPulpstar said:1st Division - 27 maj for the Gov't/
I think 27 is pretty good for the gov't - not too many Tory Remainers voting with Labour0
