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SystemSystem Posts: 12,622
edited July 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » TMay caves in to the Brexit Taliban over Chequers plan

May rejects claim accepting Tory Brexiter amendments means 'Chequers deal now dead' https://t.co/tzNxFys2Hv

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Comments

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    First!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Since Number 10 won't - perhaps Mr Herdson (or someone else) could explain why the amendments 'kill Chequers' - No.10 reckon they don't.....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,099
    CarlottaVance said:

    First!

    You swallowed my vanilla comment.
    With you own beige one....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,234
    She’s not very good.

    https://twitter.com/peston/status/1018883748400713728?s=21
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    I can't keep up with this.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,099
    CarlottaVance said:

    Since Number 10 won't - perhaps Mr Herdson (or someone else) could explain why the amendments 'kill Chequers' - No.10 reckon they don't.....

    May has claimed someone will set out a rationale...
    I would not have gone through all the work I did to ensure that we reached that agreement only to see it changed in some way through these bills. They do not change that Chequers agreement. And the minister from the despatch box later today will be making that clear...
    ... which I look forward to hearing.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,259
    So, there is now actually no plan? Have I got that right?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,234
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    I can't keep up with this.

    It is a shit show. That’s the only constant.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,942
    The "Brexit Taliban" being the people that were on the winning side of the referendum of course...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Nigelb said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Since Number 10 won't - perhaps Mr Herdson (or someone else) could explain why the amendments 'kill Chequers' - No.10 reckon they don't.....

    May has claimed someone will set out a rationale...
    I would not have gone through all the work I did to ensure that we reached that agreement only to see it changed in some way through these bills. They do not change that Chequers agreement. And the minister from the despatch box later today will be making that clear...
    ... which I look forward to hearing.
    Chequers means Chequers (and it was only a short-term fix anyway).
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,251
    The Conservative Party has effectively split. I'm not even sure it's worth pretending it's a single party any more.

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/1018885211269058560
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,817
    *raises an eyebrow*

    Taliban?

    I'm not fond of throwing around pejorative terms that are exaggerations, and that's well over the top. When ardent Leave types call hard Remainers 'traitors', people, understandably, get quite upset about it. This sort of thing isn't going to calm down the bitter division, but, rather, add a few more drops into the poisonous miasma floating this way and that between the trenches.

    And yes, I know terms like 'Turnip Taliban' have been used for comic effect in the past. Right now we have accusations of racism and treachery being thrown around, so it's a different situation.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/status/1018870113251053568
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,259
    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/status/1018870113251053568

    Too late.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,942
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    I can't keep up with this.

    It is a shit show. That’s the only constant.
    Enough!

    Bring on Jezza! :D
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    A disturbing editorial choice. Name-calling 'taliban' from the same group of people who scoff at any uses of the word treason or traitor.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,259
    El_Capitano said:

    The Conservative Party has effectively split. I'm not even sure it's worth pretending it's a single party any more.

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/1018885211269058560

    Yep, this is the Corn Laws again.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,817
    Miss Vance, saw that on Twitter, and must agree with Mr. Borough's assessment. It's too late (although it may not have made a difference in any event).
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Theories:

    1) May is insane

    2) May is so exhausted that she no longer gives a fuck about anything

    3) May has made another huge mistake and will figure out at her leisure

    4) The EU will be so amazed by May's breathtaking display of political masochism she'll be made empress of Europe
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,259
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    I can't keep up with this.

    Neither can Mrs May.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    El_Capitano said:

    The Conservative Party has effectively split. I'm not even sure it's worth pretending it's a single party any more.

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/1018885211269058560

    Let me get this clear.

    People thought:

    'The UK will collect EU duties, but

    The EU will NOT collect UK duties'

    That's what people thought?
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Morris_Dancer said:

    *raises an eyebrow*

    Taliban?

    I'm not fond of throwing around pejorative terms that are exaggerations, and that's well over the top. When ardent Leave types call hard Remainers 'traitors', people, understandably, get quite upset about it. This sort of thing isn't going to calm down the bitter division, but, rather, add a few more drops into the poisonous miasma floating this way and that between the trenches.

    And yes, I know terms like 'Turnip Taliban' have been used for comic effect in the past. Right now we have accusations of racism and treachery being thrown around, so it's a different situation.

    They are single minded, wilfully destructive and have no end game other than destroying the established system and imposing their wilfully narrow view of the truth. That sounds like Taliban to me. The view from your bedroom may be narrower.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Christ it must be hard to be a supporter of May.

    She gets an agreement through the cabinet , then a week later trashes it.
    What a pitiful leader of her party and this country.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    GIN1138 said:

    The "Brexit Taliban" being the people that were on the winning side of the referendum of course...

    That's them. They appear to take no prisoners and seem to hope for economic Armageddon to sort the pure from the unbelievers....
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    CarlottaVance said:

    El_Capitano said:

    The Conservative Party has effectively split. I'm not even sure it's worth pretending it's a single party any more.

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/1018885211269058560

    Let me get this clear.

    People thought:

    'The UK will collect EU duties, but

    The EU will NOT collect UK duties'

    That's what people thought?
    Perhaps the elephant in the room is that May's customs partnership is only a meant to be a way to disguise large ongoing cash payments to the EU based on a "formula".
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,099
    grabcocque said:

    Theories:

    1) May is insane

    2) May is so exhausted that she no longer gives a fuck about anything

    3) May has made another huge mistake and will figure out at her leisure

    4) The EU will be so amazed by May's breathtaking display of political masochism she'll be made empress of Europe

    5) She's trying to outdo Trump in sheer absurdity.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,451
    matt said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    *raises an eyebrow*

    Taliban?

    I'm not fond of throwing around pejorative terms that are exaggerations, and that's well over the top. When ardent Leave types call hard Remainers 'traitors', people, understandably, get quite upset about it. This sort of thing isn't going to calm down the bitter division, but, rather, add a few more drops into the poisonous miasma floating this way and that between the trenches.

    And yes, I know terms like 'Turnip Taliban' have been used for comic effect in the past. Right now we have accusations of racism and treachery being thrown around, so it's a different situation.

    They are single minded, wilfully destructive and have no end game other than destroying the established system and imposing their wilfully narrow view of the truth. That sounds like Taliban to me. The view from your bedroom may be narrower.
    Additionally, I doubt most Taliban members have ever changed a nappy
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,851
    GIN1138 said:

    The "Brexit Taliban" being the people that were on the winning side of the referendum of course...

    Appropriate epithet as the original Taliban were a group of undesirable extremists who claimed support of the people, cut themselves off from the rest of the world and fucked their country up
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    The ERG will set you free.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Brexit Macht Frei
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,234
    To think of the abuse I used to get when I said Mrs May wasn’t very good back in 2016/early 2017.

    #IAmAVisionary
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,259
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1018880458145214464

    Time for that choice to be put back to the people?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,515
    Goes onto PB
    Sees the Brexit loons are trying to wreck the country.
    Goes back to reading about asteroid mining.
  • currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171
    Nigel_Foremain said:

    GIN1138 said:

    The "Brexit Taliban" being the people that were on the winning side of the referendum of course...

    Appropriate epithet as the original Taliban were a group of undesirable extremists who claimed support of the people, cut themselves off from the rest of the world and fucked their country up
    Undesirable extremists? 52% of the Country?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    williamglenn said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    El_Capitano said:

    The Conservative Party has effectively split. I'm not even sure it's worth pretending it's a single party any more.

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/1018885211269058560

    Let me get this clear.

    People thought:

    'The UK will collect EU duties, but

    The EU will NOT collect UK duties'

    That's what people thought?
    Perhaps the elephant in the room is that May's customs partnership is only a meant to be a way to disguise large ongoing cash payments to the EU based on a "formula".
    But why does this 'trash Chequers' - or is that just a lazy soundbite for its various opponents?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,817
    Mr. Matt, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban#Massacre_campaigns

    People can use what terms they wish. If said terms seem over the top to me, I'm quite content to make that observation. It'd be better if we considered ideas and means, rather than throwing insulting terms, but that's just my view.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    CarlottaVance said:

    williamglenn said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    El_Capitano said:

    The Conservative Party has effectively split. I'm not even sure it's worth pretending it's a single party any more.

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/1018885211269058560

    Let me get this clear.

    People thought:

    'The UK will collect EU duties, but

    The EU will NOT collect UK duties'

    That's what people thought?
    Perhaps the elephant in the room is that May's customs partnership is only a meant to be a way to disguise large ongoing cash payments to the EU based on a "formula".
    But why does this 'trash Chequers' - or is that just a lazy soundbite for its various opponents?
    It only trashes Chequers if Chequers is taken at face value.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pauly said:

    A disturbing editorial choice. Name-calling 'taliban' from the same group of people who scoff at any uses of the word treason or traitor.

    Snowflake alert.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    edited July 2018
    I've never liked or agreed with the headbanger Tory wing of the party BUT, I'd prefer them to be in a showdown with the EU than weak May.

    For balance, I'd prefer it if Mcdonnell and Corbyn were heading into battle with them than May and Olly fucking Robbins.

    It is IMPERATIVE that the EU member states see the whites of NO DEAL's eyes.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,579
    If there is to be a 3-way referendum (as I've hoped but not dared to believe for a while now) I'd have thought that EEA membership should be an option - this represents 'soft Brexit' better than anything else on the table and certainly Chequers looks like a hard Brexit from where I'm sitting, albeit with a dollop of fudge on.

    I don't know how much more of this chaotic to and fro we can take in the meantime though.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    CarlottaVance said:

    williamglenn said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    El_Capitano said:

    The Conservative Party has effectively split. I'm not even sure it's worth pretending it's a single party any more.

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/1018885211269058560

    Let me get this clear.

    People thought:

    'The UK will collect EU duties, but

    The EU will NOT collect UK duties'

    That's what people thought?
    Perhaps the elephant in the room is that May's customs partnership is only a meant to be a way to disguise large ongoing cash payments to the EU based on a "formula".
    But why does this 'trash Chequers' - or is that just a lazy soundbite for its various opponents?
    Yes, I’d like this explained as well, as the whole process is confusing me at this stage.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    One optimist:

    https://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1018892051713347584
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    edited July 2018
    I believe that Taliban is the plural of Talib, which means 'Seeker'. I'm sure Brexit 'Seekers' is what Mike must have meant.

    He surely can't have been comparing them to a fundamentalist Islamic army? He's not becoming one of the Re-mujahideen?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    To think of the abuse I used to get when I said Mrs May wasn’t very good back in 2016/early 2017.

    #IAmAVisionary

    Could be worse. She could be editing a money losing local free-sheet.....
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,333
    CarlottaVance said:

    One optimist:

    https://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1018892051713347584

    One should not underestimate the value of optimism.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,230
    I think Theresa knows the game is up. She's now transferring ownership of Brexit to Rees-Mogg so if it's a catastrophe he'll be blamed and history will be a little kinder to her. It makes a grim kind of sense.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    edited July 2018
    Sean_F said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    One optimist:

    https://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1018892051713347584

    One should not underestimate the value of optimism.
    I have lost track of the number of times May has been written off as completely useless...yet here she still is, wading grimly on through a mess largely (Brexit - she owns GE17) not of her making.....
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    Alistair said:

    Pauly said:

    A disturbing editorial choice. Name-calling 'taliban' from the same group of people who scoff at any uses of the word treason or traitor.

    Snowflake alert.
    Forgive me for trying to lower the rhetoric of our political debate to try and prevent another Jo Cox incident.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    volcanopete said:

    The ERG will set you free.

    I doubt it. An erg is the energy required to accelerate 1 gram at 1 cms^2 or about the same energy as a housefly uses to stretch its legs.

    It is also the same amount of energy expended by certain "Leave" politicians to examine the feasibility of their preferred Brexit, thus the name of the group
  • PeterMannionPeterMannion Posts: 712
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    To think of the abuse I used to get when I said Mrs May wasn’t very good back in 2016/early 2017.

    #IAmAVisionary

    It's all about you, isn't it?
  • currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171
    CarlottaVance said:

    Sean_F said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    One optimist:

    https://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1018892051713347584

    One should not underestimate the value of optimism.
    I have lost track of the number of times May has been written off as completely useless...yet here she still is, wading grimly on through a mess largely not of her making.....
    So completely useless we have full employment in this Country for this first time in my 50 years
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    Does the EU collecting "our dues" only make sense if we had a higher rate? It would then stop customs arbitrage where an EU firm imported and then immediately exported to us. Is this likely? An alternative would be requiring reporting within the UK and prosecuting blatant rule-breakers.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,839
    So the hard right Ultras have now taken over the Tory Party.......

    Long Live Corbyn! (and Abbott and McDonnell and Long Bailey and Rayner and Watson)

  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Alistair said:

    Pauly said:

    A disturbing editorial choice. Name-calling 'taliban' from the same group of people who scoff at any uses of the word treason or traitor.

    Snowflake alert.
    Pointing out hypocrisy is not the same as snowflakery.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    NorthofStoke said:

    Does the EU collecting "our dues" only make sense if we had a higher rate? It would then stop customs arbitrage where an EU firm imported and then immediately exported to us. Is this likely? An alternative would be requiring reporting within the UK and prosecuting blatant rule-breakers.

    Or we could just stay in.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,259
    https://twitter.com/JohnBrennan/status/1018885971104985093
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    To think of the abuse I used to get when I said Mrs May wasn’t very good back in 2016/early 2017.

    #IAmAVisionary

    I don't know what you mean. She was the blessed Dave's last and most enduring gift to the nation, before swanning off to the shepherd hut to work on those memoirs.

    As I have said before, thank God Dave was rather good at being PM. Look where his country and party are now, and think what trouble we would be in if he'd been a bit shit at it.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,362
    edited July 2018
    Stark_Dawning said:

    I think Theresa knows the game is up. She's now transferring ownership of Brexit to Rees-Mogg so if it's a catastrophe he'll be blamed and history will be a little kinder to her. It makes a grim kind of sense.

    There could be a lot of truth in that. Plunging polls, mass resignations from the activists and fury in vote leaving constituencies over the weekend must have had an effect
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,942
    CarlottaVance said:

    One optimist:

    https://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1018892051713347584


    More than Cameron and Osborne did before the referendum...
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Roger said:

    So the hard right Ultras have now taken over the Tory Party.......

    Long Live Corbyn! (and Abbott and McDonnell and Long Bailey and Rayner and Watson)

    Clowns on the left, Jokers on the right?
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    GIN1138 said:

    The "Brexit Taliban" being the people that were on the winning side of the referendum of course...

    The same liars who said that "of course we'll stay in the Single Market" and "of course we can stay in the EEA - what's wrong with being like Norway?" and "the EU will give us everything we want - their car manufacturers need us, don'cha know?"
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited July 2018
    currystar said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Sean_F said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    One optimist:

    https://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1018892051713347584

    One should not underestimate the value of optimism.
    I have lost track of the number of times May has been written off as completely useless...yet here she still is, wading grimly on through a mess largely not of her making.....
    So completely useless we have full employment in this Country for this first time in my 50 years
    Full employment is what we had from 1945 - late 1960s when the jobless figures were well under 500,000 in most years.Moreover , when account is taken of the many 'adjustments' to the figures ,unemployment today remains well above mid-1970s levels - indeed on a like for like basis we are probably still looking at circa 2 million unemployed.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,379
    The_Apocalypse said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    williamglenn said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    El_Capitano said:

    The Conservative Party has effectively split. I'm not even sure it's worth pretending it's a single party any more.

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/1018885211269058560

    Let me get this clear.

    People thought:

    'The UK will collect EU duties, but

    The EU will NOT collect UK duties'

    That's what people thought?
    Perhaps the elephant in the room is that May's customs partnership is only a meant to be a way to disguise large ongoing cash payments to the EU based on a "formula".
    But why does this 'trash Chequers' - or is that just a lazy soundbite for its various opponents?
    Yes, I’d like this explained as well, as the whole process is confusing me at this stage.
    You are not alone Ms Apocalypse, believe me.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    May is a brilliant leader mind you.

    Last week Soubry, Morgan and Adonis were singing her praises, this week JRM and co are running the show.

    The truth is somewhat more devilishly complicated than that but these extremes are an example of how out of control she is of the message and events.

    I personally think she's had it. The big question is whether the Tories can stay intact.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    I think the only way to accept the amendments and not abrogate the December agreement with the EU is to keep the whole UK in the Customs Union.

    I look forward to HMG bowing to logic and adopting Labour party policy.
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    Recidivist said:

    NorthofStoke said:

    Does the EU collecting "our dues" only make sense if we had a higher rate? It would then stop customs arbitrage where an EU firm imported and then immediately exported to us. Is this likely? An alternative would be requiring reporting within the UK and prosecuting blatant rule-breakers.

    Or we could just stay in.
    Wish we could - and not tear us apart. Now realised I didn't know enough to even ask a sensible question. More research required...
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,082
    OblitusSumMe said:

    I think the only way to accept the amendments and not abrogate the December agreement with the EU is to keep the whole UK in the Customs Union.

    I look forward to HMG bowing to logic and adopting Labour party policy.

    Labour Party have a Policy???
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    I'm not sure if the "broad public" are turning on May. Perhaps the exposure of the inherent difficulties and the fractious but almost equally balanced factions in the HOC mean that her compromise might make it through even with a few bullet holes and dents in it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,259
    Soubry in action in House. 3 people in prison for death threats to her alone.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,379
    So Cabinet government was restored around this agreement last weekend.
    But now it is changed.
    Does that mean the Cabinet are bound, or not bound, to support these amendments?
    Sorry if there is an obvious answer to this.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    rottenborough said:

    Soubry in action in House. 3 people in prison for death threats to her alone.

    She's an excellent communicator. She's been driven a bit mad by Brexit though.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,379
    CarlottaVance said:

    Sean_F said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    One optimist:

    https://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1018892051713347584

    One should not underestimate the value of optimism.
    I have lost track of the number of times May has been written off as completely useless...yet here she still is, wading grimly on through a mess largely (Brexit - she owns GE17) not of her making.....
    And still admirably, and consistently, completely useless.
  • PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,275
    OblitusSumMe said:

    I think the only way to accept the amendments and not abrogate the December agreement with the EU is to keep the whole UK in the Customs Union.

    I look forward to HMG bowing to logic and adopting Labour party policy.

    The CU alone is not sufficient. Regulatory alignment is also required facilitate an open border.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,259
    Soubry: "this is complete madness"
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,082
    CarlottaVance said:

    One optimist:

    https://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1018892051713347584

    Comes from the same school of thought that has Trump as a master strategist.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,259
    Soubry: "who is actually running Britain?"

    Wow!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    rottenborough said:

    Soubry: "this is complete madness"

    Its quite a heroic rant!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    dixiedean said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    williamglenn said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    El_Capitano said:

    The Conservative Party has effectively split. I'm not even sure it's worth pretending it's a single party any more.

    https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/1018885211269058560

    Let me get this clear.

    People thought:

    'The UK will collect EU duties, but

    The EU will NOT collect UK duties'

    That's what people thought?
    Perhaps the elephant in the room is that May's customs partnership is only a meant to be a way to disguise large ongoing cash payments to the EU based on a "formula".
    But why does this 'trash Chequers' - or is that just a lazy soundbite for its various opponents?
    Yes, I’d like this explained as well, as the whole process is confusing me at this stage.
    You are not alone Ms Apocalypse, believe me.
    And answer came there none....(yet, anyway....)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,817
    Mr. F, Icarus certainly believed in the power of optimism.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Aesop.
    Uncle Remus.
    Brer Rabbit and the tar baby.
    Brexit.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiMw-8Ttu10
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    logical_song said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    One optimist:

    https://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1018892051713347584

    Comes from the same school of thought that has Trump as a master strategist.
    Trump, President of the United States? That one?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    rottenborough said:

    Soubry: "who is actually running Britain?"

    Wow!

    No-one it seems.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,259
    good point:

    https://twitter.com/leicesterliz/status/1018875187427717120
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,340
    FrankBooth said:

    rottenborough said:

    Soubry: "who is actually running Britain?"

    Wow!

    No-one it seems.
    Now, now, Anna, it was your turn last week. Play nicely and let Jacob have his go
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,753
    I seem Carole Cadwalladr has just done an Elon Musk....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,259
    https://twitter.com/GermanyDiplo/status/1018806219534893056
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,942
    edited July 2018
    CarlottaVance said:



    I have lost track of the number of times May has been written off as completely useless...yet here she still is, wading grimly on through a mess largely (Brexit - she owns GE17) not of her making.....

    As I keep saying The Good Ship May sails on serenely... :D
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,775
    Off thread - having had all the children it's sensible to have, I've just been on the phone to the Marie Stopes to make an appointment for a vasectomy. In doing so, I was asked five equality and diversity questions: ethnicity, religious belief, whether I have a disability, sexualorientation, and gender identity. I would suggest that two of those questions are somewhat superfluous, given the nature of the operation.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,259
    GIN1138 said:

    CarlottaVance said:



    I have lost track of the number of times May has been written off as completely useless...yet here she still is, wading grimly on through a mess largely (Brexit - she owns GE17) not of her making.....

    As I keep saying The Good Ship May sails on serenely... :D
    I doubt she is serene. More like on the edge of a nervous breakdown with all this madness around her.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,817
    Mr. Dean, Honorius was Roman emperor for a long time despite being phenomenally, catastrophically useless.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    rottenborough said:

    Soubry: "this is complete madness"

    "Calm down dear"
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Cookie said:

    Off thread - having had all the children it's sensible to have, I've just been on the phone to the Marie Stopes to make an appointment for a vasectomy. In doing so, I was asked five equality and diversity questions: ethnicity, religious belief, whether I have a disability, sexualorientation, and gender identity. I would suggest that two of those questions are somewhat superfluous, given the nature of the operation.

    I would suggest that five of them are superfluous given the nature of the operation.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,761
    Taliban comparison is bonkers. JRM is definitely out there but he isn't going to kill anyone.

    On the amendments, not sure what's going on, but not particularly convinced this is actually such a big news story. Whatever deal is done will go through Parliament and presumably that can override these amendments if need be?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,839
    OT. Funny how people are still taking Trump seriously. It's pretty obvious most of the time he's just having fun.

    It occurred to me when they put on that show for him at Blenheim Palace that it was a scene stolen from 'Being There' where the sycophants were made to look foolish by taking Chance seriously.

    But looking back everyone including Trump could see the absurdity of the scene and thanks to his TV experience he was just about able to carry it off without cracking up.

    In fact the only one who didn't get the joke was the Queen who looked like she'd been used in a sitcom without being told
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,817
    Mr. rkrkrk, that may depend on Grieve's meaningful vote. Which would be a supreme irony.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,362
    rottenborough said:

    GIN1138 said:

    CarlottaVance said:



    I have lost track of the number of times May has been written off as completely useless...yet here she still is, wading grimly on through a mess largely (Brexit - she owns GE17) not of her making.....

    As I keep saying The Good Ship May sails on serenely... :D
    I doubt she is serene. More like on the edge of a nervous breakdown with all this madness around her.
    She seems to have got off the fence and moved to ERG

    I believe she knows Chequers would run into trouble with the EU and is preparing to walk out when they do, blaming them for the failure, and announcing hard Brexit contingency planning.

    In these circumstances I believe remain becomes impossible
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited July 2018
    FPT - glad TSE picked out David's post, I think it was top class.
    david_herdson said:

    In accepting the amendments today, May has effectively killed her own Chequers Deal (which cost her two cabinet ministers and several more junior government members), and made No Deal *far* more likely.

    The question has to be why. Either she doesn't understand the consequences of what she's done, or she has actively chosen to bin her own compromise in favour of something else - but what?

    If she does understand what she's doing then the only rational explanation is that she expected to lose her Chequers Plan anyway and acted early in order to forestall further opposition and, presumably, resignations. But it's come at one hell of a cost. Apart from anything else, she's now risking No Confidence letters from the left of the Party - which if they go in before the Mogglodites withdraw theirs could prompt a No Confidence vote.

    Top post. Will be interesting to read her autobiography... much of her decision-making or strategy seems to make less sense in retrospect! Whatever rational purpose might eventually be discerned in one act, she negates by her next.

    (Incidentally, given how mindboggling the dance of government and parliament is in this negotiation, how would those rare people who proposed that somehow parliament, rather than government, should have run the negotiation think it would have worked in practice?)
  • MJWMJW Posts: 2,021
    Fenster said:

    rottenborough said:

    Soubry in action in House. 3 people in prison for death threats to her alone.

    She's an excellent communicator. She's been driven a bit mad by Brexit though.
    Alternatively, politics has been made mad by Brexit and she's one of the few sane ones on either side of the house prepared to stand up and point out that both parties are living in a fantasyland dreamt up by their own hardliners.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,817
    Meanwhile, in the Socialist Party:
    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1018904572671221762
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Today feels like a big day:

    1. Brexit has hit a brick wall which means we stay in the EU or crash out; there's no middle way now.

    2. Trump has backed Putin over his own intelligence services.

    In peace time it doesn't get much bigger really.

    On the domestic front, what May has done today has ensured that however ambivalent Corbyn is over Brexit, the 2017 Labour voting alliance will hold together. He must be loving this.
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