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I'm green on all but should have had more on Belgium but could not get on Betfair when they went behind to Japan. England is 11/4 outright so you can still balance things out. On all known form we should beat Croatia and lose in the final. Upsets happen often but you seem to be relying on England's upset being in tomorrow's match and not Sunday's.TheScreamingEagles said:
Full confession time, I have a huge red if England win the world cup, but if the other three win it, they'll I'll be green.DecrepitJohnL said:FPT for TSE. France will probably beat Belgium. See my post early in that thread for Golden Boot and Golden Ball betting.
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He’s really stepped up his game. He knows May absolutely needs him now and he can do what he thinks best.Scott_P said:0 -
"Europe Elects
@EuropeElects
France: Ipsos poll records lowest value for centre-left PS (S&D) ever recorded since its foundation at the beginning of the 1900s. Poll for European Parliament elex says party would get 4%. #France will be left without any S&D rep in European Parliament according to poll. #EP2019"0 -
Especially before the watershed.IanB2 said:
You don't often see overexertion and cruise in the same sentence...Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes we are apart from my strained (and painful) hamstrings from overexertion on our cruise and 1200 miles static behind the wheel driving upto Lossiemouth and backmalcolmg said:FPT
Morning Malc - thanks for your comments and I hope you are well and enjoying the weather. Was in Gods own Country two weeks ago and return in 10 days for another week.
Hi G, been amazing , at least 6 weeks since we have had rain. Hope it holds for your return. Hope you and family are all well.0 -
Is this the first time a Tory MP has made either the fact or the form of such a letter public?williamglenn said:0 -
Andrew Bridgen being a prick is not breaking newsTissue_Price said:Is this the first time a Tory MP has made either the fact or the form of such a letter public?
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Access could mean access via WTO rules, so an utterly meaningless question.Scott_P said:0 -
I'm fairly certain both he and Nadine Dorries said they had sent letters to Sir Graham when Dave was PM.Tissue_Price said:
Is this the first time a Tory MP has made either the fact or the form of such a letter public?williamglenn said:0 -
Bit cheap of him releasing it to the media. What a rotter!williamglenn said:0 -
On what planet would May want to subject herself to a vote of the members? Would be worth watching her try to sell this crap beyond the parliamentary party.IanB2 said:Can a Tory leader stand down voluntarily (i.e. no 48 letters) and subject themselves to a leadership election in which they stand?
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No, for the letters trigger a No Conf vote, and the rules are that if this is lost you can't stand in the subsequent leadership election. My Q is whether the rules prevent a leader resigning and restanding (a la Major), sidestepping the NOC and the restanding restriction?FrancisUrquhart said:
Even if you couldn't, you just get your mates to write the letters.IanB2 said:Can a Tory leader stand down voluntarily (i.e. no 48 letters) and subject themselves to a leadership election in which they stand?
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You have zero idea what is going on, don't you. DD was on the record as saying this is what he wanted. Steve Baker came out and said the same thing yesterday.Stark_Dawning said:
In that case doesn't that make DD the most incompetent buffoon in world negotiating history? He could have saved us all this trouble and his own job with a single utterance.archer101au said:
Standard CETA, with 100% tariff free and no quotas. MaxFac to deal with NI border. Take it or leave it - and they would take it. In a second.williamglenn said:
But in order to deny the fact that this means an Irish sea border you interpret CETA in a way that in entirely different to what the EU is willing to offer so it's not realistic.archer101au said:
I told you I would keep calling you out on this lie. No matter how many times you repeat it, it is still a lie. The Hard Brexit plan is CETA plus, always has been.williamglenn said:
Perhaps if the Hard Brexiteers could hole themselves up in a country house somewhere and produce a coherent plan we'd have something to compare with Chequers. A Cliveden Brexit perhaps?GIN1138 said:I suspect Farage will be one a "Brexit Should Mean Brexit" platform... They'll probably use it on billboards all over the country.
The REMAINERS didn't want it so they agreed to the NI backstop to scupper it.0 -
One presumes he has no leadership ambitions of his own. Past conspicuous disloyalty is not the best way of drawing loyalty out of others in the future when it is needed.DavidL said:
He’s really stepped up his game. He knows May absolutely needs him now and he can do what he thinks best.Scott_P said:0 -
Just be thankful he didn't release a photograph of himself signing it.Tissue_Price said:
Is this the first time a Tory MP has made either the fact or the form of such a letter public?williamglenn said:0 -
For fudge, you mean lie, right?DecrepitJohnL said:0 -
From Andrew Bridgen's recent utterances I had assumed that he had sent such a letter some time ago. Has he, perhaps, sent an updated version for the sake of some publicity, or are we to suppose that this could be the first such letter that Graham Brady has received?Tissue_Price said:
Is this the first time a Tory MP has made either the fact or the form of such a letter public?williamglenn said:0 -
I'd have thought Andrea of Outwood would have a letter in by now too ?
Seems a very strident brexiteer.
Edit
I'd be surprised if Andrea Jenkyns didn't have one in too.OblitusSumMe said:
From Andrew Bridgen's recent utterances I had assumed that he had sent such a letter some time ago. Has he, perhaps, sent an updated version for the sake of some publicity, or are we to suppose that this could be the first such letter that Graham Brady has received?Tissue_Price said:
Is this the first time a Tory MP has made either the fact or the form of such a letter public?williamglenn said:0 -
Reflecting on yesterday, I think May way be in a marginally better position than she was on Friday.
She was never going to have the votes for her tawdry little compromise in Parliament without Labour support *anyway*, and the EU was always going to demand many more compromises, so the Brexiteer convulsions yesterday haven't really changed the political fundamentals of May's awful position.
She has, however, seen off the toxic little shitheel that is Boris Johnson, so I could see her viewing yesterday as a good day.0 -
Yup, from 2016
Speaking to Peston on Sunday, Conservative MP Nadine Dorries revealed she had already called for David Cameron to face a vote of no confidence.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/david-cameron/media-interview/75544/nadine-dorries
And in 2014
A leading backbench critic of David Cameron - who accused the PM of "fuelling" UKIP's rise - has dropped his call for a Tory leadership contest.
Tory MP Andrew Bridgen has withdrawn a letter of no confidence in Mr Cameron, saying he now supports the prime minister "without reservation".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-269239730 -
I presume that the purpose of the qualifier "full" was to make a distinction between our current level of access and a partial level of access obtainable via WTO rules, or some sort of FTA.archer101au said:
Access could mean access via WTO rules, so an utterly meaningless question.Scott_P said:0 -
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May releases people's resignations without notice - she has no right to expect any courtesies or niceties from political opponentsStark_Dawning said:
Bit cheap of him releasing it to the media. What a rotter!williamglenn said:0 -
You can see why JohnO, a very loyal and calm Tory of many years standing, absolutely loathes Andrew Bridgen can't you, and you views him as the shitest of all Tory MPs.0
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That's not margin of error. That's a significant uplift. Garrrrrrr.rottenborough said:0 -
I have a rather chilling feeling that Trump's actions on NATO are Putin's end game. That the kompromat exists and the US withdrawal from NATO is its primary purpose.
If I lived in a Baltic State I'd be packing my bags.
[I may look back on this as an aberrant tin-foil moment. I hope I do.]0 -
She confirmed it yesterdayPulpstar said:I'd have thought Andrea of Outwood would have a letter in by now too ?
Seems a very strident brexiteer.
Edit
I'd be surprised if Andrea Jenkyns didn't have one in too.OblitusSumMe said:
From Andrew Bridgen's recent utterances I had assumed that he had sent such a letter some time ago. Has he, perhaps, sent an updated version for the sake of some publicity, or are we to suppose that this could be the first such letter that Graham Brady has received?Tissue_Price said:
Is this the first time a Tory MP has made either the fact or the form of such a letter public?williamglenn said:0 -
Do you think that he is being disloyal? He has conspicuously backed May. He has also sought to make her government more successful by correcting her (and Cameron’s ) mistakes. Windrush, staff for the NHS, emphasising how welcoming the U.K. will be to entrepreneurs post Brexit, and all without really rubbing May’s face in it. Students next.AlastairMeeks said:
One presumes he has no leadership ambitions of his own. Past conspicuous disloyalty is not the best way of drawing loyalty out of others in the future when it is needed.DavidL said:
He’s really stepped up his game. He knows May absolutely needs him now and he can do what he thinks best.Scott_P said:0 -
They could have used 'membership' of the SM market if they wanted to ask that.OblitusSumMe said:
I presume that the purpose of the qualifier "full" was to make a distinction between our current level of access and a partial level of access obtainable via WTO rules, or some sort of FTA.archer101au said:
Access could mean access via WTO rules, so an utterly meaningless question.Scott_P said:
We have full access to the SM under WTO rules, because we can sell any goods that we wish to Europe on the same basis as anyone else within the EU.0 -
Maybe we will have half-hourly publications of letters to Graham Brady in an attempt to encourage others to join in the letter-writing craze?Pulpstar said:I'd be surprised if Andrea Jenkyns didn't have one in too.
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Boris was planning on resigning during Mrs May's statement to the Commons.maaarsh said:
May releases people's resignations without notice - she has no right to expect any courtesies or niceties from political opponentsStark_Dawning said:
Bit cheap of him releasing it to the media. What a rotter!williamglenn said:
She was quite right in trying to stop him destabilising the government.0 -
The EU wants FOM. We want to take back control but not actually to limit immigration. Look at non-EU immigration under Theresa May when she was Home Secretary for six years! Ample room for fudge. FOM is angels on the head of a pin stuff.archer101au said:
For fudge, you mean lie, right?DecrepitJohnL said:
Yet so inept are our political classes that this is what threatens our prosperity inside or outside the EU. It's like arguing about tariffs on dilithium crystals.0 -
A leader resigning is NOT eligible to be re-nominated in the subsequent leadership electionIanB2 said:
No, for the letters trigger a No Conf vote, and the rules are that if this is lost you can't stand in the subsequent leadership election. My Q is whether the rules prevent a leader resigning and restanding (a la Major), sidestepping the NOC and the restanding restriction?FrancisUrquhart said:
Even if you couldn't, you just get your mates to write the letters.IanB2 said:Can a Tory leader stand down voluntarily (i.e. no 48 letters) and subject themselves to a leadership election in which they stand?
Appendix 3 Article 2, P20 of the official Commons Library document on Conservative Party leadership elections.
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01366/SN01366.pdf0 -
He's so stupid he probably wrote 48 of them.OblitusSumMe said:
From Andrew Bridgen's recent utterances I had assumed that he had sent such a letter some time ago. Has he, perhaps, sent an updated version for the sake of some publicity, or are we to suppose that this could be the first such letter that Graham Brady has received?Tissue_Price said:
Is this the first time a Tory MP has made either the fact or the form of such a letter public?williamglenn said:0 -
Well, he's out performed the Tories in terms of swing from Labour to the Tories at the last three GEs.TheScreamingEagles said:You can see why JohnO, a very loyal and calm Tory of many years standing, absolutely loathes Andrew Bridgen can't you, and you views him as the shitest of all Tory MPs.
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Nonsense - the release was scheduled for 6pm - if he was trying to do it whilst she was on her feet in the house, he would not have given number 10 advance notice.TheScreamingEagles said:
Boris was planning on resigning during Mrs May's statement to the Commons.maaarsh said:
May releases people's resignations without notice - she has no right to expect any courtesies or niceties from political opponentsStark_Dawning said:
Bit cheap of him releasing it to the media. What a rotter!williamglenn said:
She was quite right in trying to stop him destabilising the government.
They were formally told, they didn't guess he'd resigned.0 -
Another complete nobody breaks ranksScott_P said:
Andrew Bridgen being a prick is not breaking newsTissue_Price said:Is this the first time a Tory MP has made either the fact or the form of such a letter public?
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You don't think he's advertising his disagreement with his boss there?DavidL said:
Do you think that he is being disloyal? He has conspicuously backed May. He has also sought to make her government more successful by correcting her (and Cameron’s ) mistakes. Windrush, staff for the NHS, emphasising how welcoming the U.K. will be to entrepreneurs post Brexit, and all without really rubbing May’s face in it. Students next.AlastairMeeks said:
One presumes he has no leadership ambitions of his own. Past conspicuous disloyalty is not the best way of drawing loyalty out of others in the future when it is needed.DavidL said:
He’s really stepped up his game. He knows May absolutely needs him now and he can do what he thinks best.Scott_P said:0 -
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I note you are again pontificating on matters critical to the UK economy from your home in... Australia.archer101au said:
Access could mean access via WTO rules, so an utterly meaningless question.Scott_P said:0 -
Yes, the idea that Boris, of all people, can complain about lack of courtesies is hilarious.TheScreamingEagles said:
Boris was planning on resigning during Mrs May's statement to the Commons.maaarsh said:
May releases people's resignations without notice - she has no right to expect any courtesies or niceties from political opponentsStark_Dawning said:
Bit cheap of him releasing it to the media. What a rotter!williamglenn said:
She was quite right in trying to stop him destabilising the government.0 -
To be fair to No 10 he was given the opportunity to resign, rather than be fired for his antics yesterday.maaarsh said:
May releases people's resignations without notice - she has no right to expect any courtesies or niceties from political opponentsStark_Dawning said:
Bit cheap of him releasing it to the media. What a rotter!williamglenn said:0 -
If the other members of NATO hold their nerve, spend a lot of money and pull their fingers out they can stand together against Russia without the US.Anorak said:I have a rather chilling feeling that Trump's actions on NATO are Putin's end game. That the kompromat exists and the US withdrawal from NATO is its primary purpose.
If I lived in a Baltic State I'd be packing my bags.
[I may look back on this as an aberrant tin-foil moment. I hope I do.]0 -
Could you perhaps stop repeatedly accusing people of lying? It isn't worthy of this site nor of you.archer101au said:
For fudge, you mean lie, right?DecrepitJohnL said:0 -
There's an obvious loophole though, which is that May doesn't resign, but gets her supporters to write to Brady and trigger a vote of confidence for her. Maybe that's a good idea? Clear the air, see off the Mogglodytes.Sandpit said:
A leader resigning is NOT eligable to be re-nominated in the subsequent leadership electionIanB2 said:
No, for the letters trigger a No Conf vote, and the rules are that if this is lost you can't stand in the subsequent leadership election. My Q is whether the rules prevent a leader resigning and restanding (a la Major), sidestepping the NOC and the restanding restriction?FrancisUrquhart said:
Even if you couldn't, you just get your mates to write the letters.IanB2 said:Can a Tory leader stand down voluntarily (i.e. no 48 letters) and subject themselves to a leadership election in which they stand?
Appendix 3 Article 2, P20 of the official Commons Library document on Conservative Party leadership elections.
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01366/SN01366.pdf
However, that won't work because the Mogglodytes may only be a minor faction in the commons, they're everywhere in activistland. May can't destroy them.0 -
I am less than thrilled with the Chequers package but I don’t see that. What we need is an immigration policy relevant to the U.K. That will involve seeking to entice the best, people we need, people we can sell things to such as education and those capable of investing in this country. Whether those combined needs amount to more than current targets or less will depend on how the economy is doing at any particular time.archer101au said:0 -
Well, the people voted to take back control BECAUSE they wanted to limit immigration. But if the political classes don't agree, who cares?DecrepitJohnL said:
The EU wants FOM. We want to take back control but not actually to limit immigration. Look at non-EU immigration under Theresa May when she was Home Secretary for six years! Ample room for fudge. FOM is angels on the head of a pin stuff.archer101au said:
For fudge, you mean lie, right?DecrepitJohnL said:
Yet so inept are our political classes that this is what threatens our prosperity inside or outside the EU. It's like arguing about tariffs on dilithium crystals.0 -
Perhaps the fictional Darlington Hall may be more apt?williamglenn said:
Perhaps if the Hard Brexiteers could hole themselves up in a country house somewhere and produce a coherent plan we'd have something to compare with Chequers. A Cliveden Brexit perhaps?GIN1138 said:I suspect Farage will be one a "Brexit Should Mean Brexit" platform... They'll probably use it on billboards all over the country.
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If we imposed higher tariffs on dilithium crystals it would encourage investment in reducing the labour intensity of dilithium mining, which would be of great benefit to everyone involved, because dilithium mining is terribly dangerous.DecrepitJohnL said:
The EU wants FOM. We want to take back control but not actually to limit immigration. Look at non-EU immigration under Theresa May when she was Home Secretary for six years! Ample room for fudge. FOM is angels on the head of a pin stuff.archer101au said:
For fudge, you mean lie, right?DecrepitJohnL said:
Yet so inept are our political classes that this is what threatens our prosperity inside or outside the EU. It's like arguing about tariffs on dilithium crystals.0 -
Wow. If that's true (is it really?), then he goes from being a planet-sized, two-faced weasel to a galaxy-sized, two-faced weasel. He really thought that would endear him to the members, a large majority of which have a solid sense of fair play and decency?TheScreamingEagles said:
Boris was planning on resigning during Mrs May's statement to the Commons.maaarsh said:
May releases people's resignations without notice - she has no right to expect any courtesies or niceties from political opponentsStark_Dawning said:
Bit cheap of him releasing it to the media. What a rotter!williamglenn said:
She was quite right in trying to stop him destabilising the government.0 -
Yup, he gave Dave 10 mins notice he was backing Leave after telling Dave he was going to back Remain.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, the idea that Boris, of all people, can complain about lack of courtesies is hilarious.TheScreamingEagles said:
Boris was planning on resigning during Mrs May's statement to the Commons.maaarsh said:
May releases people's resignations without notice - she has no right to expect any courtesies or niceties from political opponentsStark_Dawning said:
Bit cheap of him releasing it to the media. What a rotter!williamglenn said:
She was quite right in trying to stop him destabilising the government.0 -
Yes, from reading the rule book the only way she could do a John Major would be to have her supporters write to Graham Brady saying they have no confidence in her, triggering the VoNC which she then wins and is protected from further challenge for 12 months.grabcocque said:
There's an obvious loophole though, which is that May doesn't resign, but gets her supporters to write to Brady and trigger a vote of confidence for her. Maybe that's a good idea? Clear the air, see off the Mogglodytes.Sandpit said:
A leader resigning is NOT eligable to be re-nominated in the subsequent leadership electionIanB2 said:
No, for the letters trigger a No Conf vote, and the rules are that if this is lost you can't stand in the subsequent leadership election. My Q is whether the rules prevent a leader resigning and restanding (a la Major), sidestepping the NOC and the restanding restriction?FrancisUrquhart said:
Even if you couldn't, you just get your mates to write the letters.IanB2 said:Can a Tory leader stand down voluntarily (i.e. no 48 letters) and subject themselves to a leadership election in which they stand?
Appendix 3 Article 2, P20 of the official Commons Library document on Conservative Party leadership elections.
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01366/SN01366.pdf
However, that won't work because the Mogglodytes may only be a minor faction in the commons, they're everywhere in activistland. May can't destroy them.
Playing with fire to do that though IMO, she wouldn’t be in control of the process and these things could go very wrong very quickly.0 -
Duplicity seems to run thro his veinsTheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, he gave Dave 10 mins notice he was backing Leave after telling Dave he was going to back Remain.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, the idea that Boris, of all people, can complain about lack of courtesies is hilarious.TheScreamingEagles said:
Boris was planning on resigning during Mrs May's statement to the Commons.maaarsh said:
May releases people's resignations without notice - she has no right to expect any courtesies or niceties from political opponentsStark_Dawning said:
Bit cheap of him releasing it to the media. What a rotter!williamglenn said:
She was quite right in trying to stop him destabilising the government.0 -
Indeed, he knows that he can bring May down at pretty much any point. Other MPs are waiting to rally to his banner at this point. It gives him a lot of power in the Cabinet. Hopefully he doesn't let us down.DavidL said:
He’s really stepped up his game. He knows May absolutely needs him now and he can do what he thinks best.Scott_P said:0 -
Who plays the role of the loyal but slightly dim butler chappie?Theuniondivvie said:
Perhaps the fictional Darlington Hall may be more apt?williamglenn said:
Perhaps if the Hard Brexiteers could hole themselves up in a country house somewhere and produce a coherent plan we'd have something to compare with Chequers. A Cliveden Brexit perhaps?GIN1138 said:I suspect Farage will be one a "Brexit Should Mean Brexit" platform... They'll probably use it on billboards all over the country.
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Well it is the inference many people drew from his actions.Anorak said:
Wow. If that's true (is it really?), then he goes from being a planet-sized, two-faced weasel to a galaxy-sized, two-faced weasel. He really thought that would endear him to the members, a large majority of which have a solid sense of fair play and decency?TheScreamingEagles said:
Boris was planning on resigning during Mrs May's statement to the Commons.maaarsh said:
May releases people's resignations without notice - she has no right to expect any courtesies or niceties from political opponentsStark_Dawning said:
Bit cheap of him releasing it to the media. What a rotter!williamglenn said:
She was quite right in trying to stop him destabilising the government.
Did he really want Mrs May's statement to be dominated about questions about where is Boris and is he resigning?
I think he was hoping to do a Sir Geoffrey Howe/Leo Amery.0 -
Depends on the cruising..IanB2 said:
You don't often see overexertion and cruise in the same sentence...Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes we are apart from my strained (and painful) hamstrings from overexertion on our cruise and 1200 miles static behind the wheel driving upto Lossiemouth and backmalcolmg said:FPT
Morning Malc - thanks for your comments and I hope you are well and enjoying the weather. Was in Gods own Country two weeks ago and return in 10 days for another week.
Hi G, been amazing , at least 6 weeks since we have had rain. Hope it holds for your return. Hope you and family are all well.0 -
His great-grandfather was lynched for trying to turn the defeated Ottoman Empire into a British protectorate.SquareRoot said:
Duplicity seems to run thro his veinsTheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, he gave Dave 10 mins notice he was backing Leave after telling Dave he was going to back Remain.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, the idea that Boris, of all people, can complain about lack of courtesies is hilarious.TheScreamingEagles said:
Boris was planning on resigning during Mrs May's statement to the Commons.maaarsh said:
May releases people's resignations without notice - she has no right to expect any courtesies or niceties from political opponentsStark_Dawning said:
Bit cheap of him releasing it to the media. What a rotter!williamglenn said:
She was quite right in trying to stop him destabilising the government.0 -
I think that he is doing so within acceptable limits. This is a policy the Tories need to walk away from. But they need to do it in a way that they can sell to their supporters.AlastairMeeks said:
You don't think he's advertising his disagreement with his boss there?DavidL said:
Do you think that he is being disloyal? He has conspicuously backed May. He has also sought to make her government more successful by correcting her (and Cameron’s ) mistakes. Windrush, staff for the NHS, emphasising how welcoming the U.K. will be to entrepreneurs post Brexit, and all without really rubbing May’s face in it. Students next.AlastairMeeks said:
One presumes he has no leadership ambitions of his own. Past conspicuous disloyalty is not the best way of drawing loyalty out of others in the future when it is needed.DavidL said:
He’s really stepped up his game. He knows May absolutely needs him now and he can do what he thinks best.Scott_P said:
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Are you that inept and ignorant that you don't understand the difference?DecrepitJohnL said:
The EU wants FOM. We want to take back control but not actually to limit immigration. Look at non-EU immigration under Theresa May when she was Home Secretary for six years! Ample room for fudge. FOM is angels on the head of a pin stuff.archer101au said:
For fudge, you mean lie, right?DecrepitJohnL said:
Yet so inept are our political classes that this is what threatens our prosperity inside or outside the EU. It's like arguing about tariffs on dilithium crystals.
Control isn't about quantity it is about the kind of person we allow in.
Which is more useful for the country? A white unskilled, unemployed, untalented European who doesn't speak English or a black doctor from the West Indies who speaks fluent English.
Which one of those two should be given the freedom to move here and why?0 -
I'm thinking this bill may well have some unintended consequences... plant nurseries to be exempt from rates:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-447679470 -
What is going on is that a lot of people who had years to find out how the EU functions and international trade deals ared one are being found out. They did not have a scooby. They were clueless. They thought Brexit would be easy to do because the UK would hold all the negotiating cards. They sold us a vision of Brexit that was never achievable. They were blagging it. They never bothered to do the hard work. Now they are being found out.archer101au said:
You have zero idea what is going on, don't you. DD was on the record as saying this is what he wanted. Steve Baker came out and said the same thing yesterday.Stark_Dawning said:
In that case doesn't that make DD the most incompetent buffoon in world negotiating history? He could have saved us all this trouble and his own job with a single utterance.archer101au said:
Standard CETA, with 100% tariff free and no quotas. MaxFac to deal with NI border. Take it or leave it - and they would take it. In a second.williamglenn said:
But in order to deny the fact that this means an Irish sea border you interpret CETA in a way that in entirely different to what the EU is willing to offer so it's not realistic.archer101au said:
I told you I would keep calling you out on this lie. No matter how many times you repeat it, it is still a lie. The Hard Brexit plan is CETA plus, always has been.williamglenn said:
Perhaps if the Hard Brexiteers could hole themselves up in a country house somewhere and produce a coherent plan we'd have something to compare with Chequers. A Cliveden Brexit perhaps?GIN1138 said:I suspect Farage will be one a "Brexit Should Mean Brexit" platform... They'll probably use it on billboards all over the country.
The REMAINERS didn't want it so they agreed to the NI backstop to scupper it.
And, as usual, they are blaming everyone but themselves for this.
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This should help Mrs May.
Donald Trump today heaped praise on Cabinet quitter Boris Johnson as he said the UK was in political “turmoil”.
In a humiliating intervention for Theresa May, the US President said the former Foreign Secretary - who quit the Government with a blast at her Brexit plans - was “a great friend of mine”.
And he said it would be up to the British people whether or not Mrs May remains in power.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/boris-johnson/news/96726/watch-donald-trump-heaps0 -
They couldn't even walk away from HS2 after they dropped their fake opposition to the third runway. They won't be dropping the net migration target any time soon.DavidL said:
I think that he is doing so within acceptable limits. This is a policy the Tories need to walk away from. But they need to do it in a way that they can sell to their supporters.AlastairMeeks said:
You don't think he's advertising his disagreement with his boss there?DavidL said:
Do you think that he is being disloyal? He has conspicuously backed May. He has also sought to make her government more successful by correcting her (and Cameron’s ) mistakes. Windrush, staff for the NHS, emphasising how welcoming the U.K. will be to entrepreneurs post Brexit, and all without really rubbing May’s face in it. Students next.AlastairMeeks said:
One presumes he has no leadership ambitions of his own. Past conspicuous disloyalty is not the best way of drawing loyalty out of others in the future when it is needed.DavidL said:
He’s really stepped up his game. He knows May absolutely needs him now and he can do what he thinks best.Scott_P said:0 -
Numerous candidates for the dim component, loyal is tough though.Stark_Dawning said:
Who plays the role of the loyal but slightly dim butler chappie?Theuniondivvie said:
Perhaps the fictional Darlington Hall may be more apt?williamglenn said:
Perhaps if the Hard Brexiteers could hole themselves up in a country house somewhere and produce a coherent plan we'd have something to compare with Chequers. A Cliveden Brexit perhaps?GIN1138 said:I suspect Farage will be one a "Brexit Should Mean Brexit" platform... They'll probably use it on billboards all over the country.
0 -
When's Boris's resignation speech to the House scheduled? I wonder how he'll pitch it.TheScreamingEagles said:
Well it is the inference many people drew from his actions.Anorak said:
Wow. If that's true (is it really?), then he goes from being a planet-sized, two-faced weasel to a galaxy-sized, two-faced weasel. He really thought that would endear him to the members, a large majority of which have a solid sense of fair play and decency?TheScreamingEagles said:
Boris was planning on resigning during Mrs May's statement to the Commons.maaarsh said:
May releases people's resignations without notice - she has no right to expect any courtesies or niceties from political opponentsStark_Dawning said:
Bit cheap of him releasing it to the media. What a rotter!williamglenn said:
She was quite right in trying to stop him destabilising the government.
Did he really want Mrs May's statement to be dominated about questions about where is Boris and is he resigning?
I think he was hoping to do a Sir Geoffrey Howe/Leo Amery.0 -
A bit stupid to make that accusation on the first full day of a Conservative Cabinet lacking an Old Etonian member (assuming that the conclusion reached on this point yesterday was correct).TheScreamingEagles said:twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1016628254776659969
0 -
Because they're the only two categories of immigrant...Philip_Thompson said:
Are you that inept and ignorant that you don't understand the difference?DecrepitJohnL said:
The EU wants FOM. We want to take back control but not actually to limit immigration. Look at non-EU immigration under Theresa May when she was Home Secretary for six years! Ample room for fudge. FOM is angels on the head of a pin stuff.archer101au said:
For fudge, you mean lie, right?DecrepitJohnL said:
Yet so inept are our political classes that this is what threatens our prosperity inside or outside the EU. It's like arguing about tariffs on dilithium crystals.
Control isn't about quantity it is about the kind of person we allow in.
Which is more useful for the country? A white unskilled, unemployed, untalented European who doesn't speak English or a black doctor from the West Indies who speaks fluent English.
Which one of those two should be given the freedom to move here and why?
If I was a fruit farmer, I'd have very little use for a doctor of any skin tone.0 -
May wanted miracles. I give her the DJT.TheScreamingEagles said:This should help Mrs May.
Donald Trump today heaped praise on Cabinet quitter Boris Johnson as he said the UK was in political “turmoil”.
In a humiliating intervention for Theresa May, the US President said the former Foreign Secretary - who quit the Government with a blast at her Brexit plans - was “a great friend of mine”.
And he said it would be up to the British people whether or not Mrs May remains in power.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/boris-johnson/news/96726/watch-donald-trump-heaps0 -
It was mooted the PM would do this last week -- call for her supporters to trigger a challenge. When it happens, I'll believe the stories that she is confident of crushing the saboteurs.Sandpit said:
Yes, from reading the rule book the only way she could do a John Major would be to have her supporters write to Graham Brady saying they have no confidence in her, triggering the VoNC which she then wins and is protected from further challenge for 12 months.grabcocque said:
There's an obvious loophole though, which is that May doesn't resign, but gets her supporters to write to Brady and trigger a vote of confidence for her. Maybe that's a good idea? Clear the air, see off the Mogglodytes.Sandpit said:
A leader resigning is NOT eligable to be re-nominated in the subsequent leadership electionIanB2 said:
No, for the letters trigger a No Conf vote, and the rules are that if this is lost you can't stand in the subsequent leadership election. My Q is whether the rules prevent a leader resigning and restanding (a la Major), sidestepping the NOC and the restanding restriction?FrancisUrquhart said:
Even if you couldn't, you just get your mates to write the letters.IanB2 said:Can a Tory leader stand down voluntarily (i.e. no 48 letters) and subject themselves to a leadership election in which they stand?
Appendix 3 Article 2, P20 of the official Commons Library document on Conservative Party leadership elections.
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01366/SN01366.pdf
However, that won't work because the Mogglodytes may only be a minor faction in the commons, they're everywhere in activistland. May can't destroy them.
Playing with fire to do that though IMO, she wouldn’t be in control of the process and these things could go very wrong very quickly.0 -
Somewhere between panto and Shakespeare.Stark_Dawning said:
When's Boris's resignation speech to the House scheduled? I wonder how he'll pitch it.TheScreamingEagles said:
Well it is the inference many people drew from his actions.Anorak said:
Wow. If that's true (is it really?), then he goes from being a planet-sized, two-faced weasel to a galaxy-sized, two-faced weasel. He really thought that would endear him to the members, a large majority of which have a solid sense of fair play and decency?TheScreamingEagles said:
Boris was planning on resigning during Mrs May's statement to the Commons.maaarsh said:
May releases people's resignations without notice - she has no right to expect any courtesies or niceties from political opponentsStark_Dawning said:
Bit cheap of him releasing it to the media. What a rotter!williamglenn said:
She was quite right in trying to stop him destabilising the government.
Did he really want Mrs May's statement to be dominated about questions about where is Boris and is he resigning?
I think he was hoping to do a Sir Geoffrey Howe/Leo Amery.0 -
Reversing the Tunnel Tech decision from 2015.Pulpstar said:I'm thinking this bill may well have some unintended consequences... plant nurseries to be exempt from rates:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-44767947
I must admit I cannot remember exactly, but I think many nurseries were treated as exempt from rates prior to the decision0 -
I think being slagged off by Trump should be embraced as an honour, not a humiliation. This helps Tessie more than the Blond Blagger.TheScreamingEagles said:This should help Mrs May.
Donald Trump today heaped praise on Cabinet quitter Boris Johnson as he said the UK was in political “turmoil”.
In a humiliating intervention for Theresa May, the US President said the former Foreign Secretary - who quit the Government with a blast at her Brexit plans - was “a great friend of mine”.
And he said it would be up to the British people whether or not Mrs May remains in power.https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/boris-johnson/news/96726/watch-donald-trump-heaps0 -
I don't reckon Theresa will be vonced. The Dickhead Army are small in number and low in intellect.0
-
That's a distinctly double-edged landmark for a Conservative Cabinet.OblitusSumMe said:
A bit stupid to make that accusation on the first full day of a Conservative Cabinet lacking an Old Etonian member (assuming that the conclusion reached on this point yesterday was correct).TheScreamingEagles said:twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1016628254776659969
0 -
I am still not entirely clear why someone with principle didn't walk out of Chequers, down the long drive and flag down a taxi. Wouldn't that have been Robin Cook-esque in gravitas?
p.s. Liam Fox is one of the most unprincipled turds ever to emanate from the bowels of the Conservative party.0 -
Because fruit farmers don’t get ill? And a fruit farmer couldn’t pay higher wages?Anorak said:
Because they're the only two categories of immigrant...Philip_Thompson said:
Are you that inept and ignorant that you don't understand the difference?DecrepitJohnL said:
The EU wants FOM. We want to take back control but not actually to limit immigration. Look at non-EU immigration under Theresa May when she was Home Secretary for six years! Ample room for fudge. FOM is angels on the head of a pin stuff.archer101au said:
For fudge, you mean lie, right?DecrepitJohnL said:
Yet so inept are our political classes that this is what threatens our prosperity inside or outside the EU. It's like arguing about tariffs on dilithium crystals.
Control isn't about quantity it is about the kind of person we allow in.
Which is more useful for the country? A white unskilled, unemployed, untalented European who doesn't speak English or a black doctor from the West Indies who speaks fluent English.
Which one of those two should be given the freedom to move here and why?
If I was a fruit farmer, I'd have very little use for a doctor of any skin tone.
I have a business. I worry far more about illness than about issues that can be solved by money.0 -
The key point is that Mr Johnson has now put the question of “UK as an EU colony” at centre stage. If those fears grow, that might create momentum for Britain to walk away with no deal.
But equally, it might give momentum to those MPs who believe that a second referendum is needed on whether Brexit is really worth it.
https://www.ft.com/content/3a8059ca-8435-11e8-a29d-73e3d454535d
0 -
No they're not the only two categories but what the government has under Javid sought to do is to expand certain categories of migrants that can come (from anywhere in the globe) eg by exempting doctors from quotas and releasing the skilled quota that was taken by doctors to other people.Anorak said:
Because they're the only two categories of immigrant...Philip_Thompson said:
Are you that inept and ignorant that you don't understand the difference?DecrepitJohnL said:
The EU wants FOM. We want to take back control but not actually to limit immigration. Look at non-EU immigration under Theresa May when she was Home Secretary for six years! Ample room for fudge. FOM is angels on the head of a pin stuff.archer101au said:
For fudge, you mean lie, right?DecrepitJohnL said:
Yet so inept are our political classes that this is what threatens our prosperity inside or outside the EU. It's like arguing about tariffs on dilithium crystals.
Control isn't about quantity it is about the kind of person we allow in.
Which is more useful for the country? A white unskilled, unemployed, untalented European who doesn't speak English or a black doctor from the West Indies who speaks fluent English.
Which one of those two should be given the freedom to move here and why?
If I was a fruit farmer, I'd have very little use for a doctor of any skin tone.
Idiots are then saying that is the same as free movement. No it is not. The two are polar opposites in fact, one is discriminating based on race and nationality - the other based on talents. Which are you more in favour of?0 -
Then I suggest you know nothing about how a fruit farm works. They need a fungible source of unskilled labour. They don't need a foreign cardiologist.Mortimer said:
Because fruit farmers don’t get ill? And a fruit farmer couldn’t pay higher wages?Anorak said:
Because they're the only two categories of immigrant...Philip_Thompson said:
Are you that inept and ignorant that you don't understand the difference?DecrepitJohnL said:
The EU wants FOM. We want to take back control but not actually to limit immigration. Look at non-EU immigration under Theresa May when she was Home Secretary for six years! Ample room for fudge. FOM is angels on the head of a pin stuff.archer101au said:
For fudge, you mean lie, right?DecrepitJohnL said:
Yet so inept are our political classes that this is what threatens our prosperity inside or outside the EU. It's like arguing about tariffs on dilithium crystals.
Control isn't about quantity it is about the kind of person we allow in.
Which is more useful for the country? A white unskilled, unemployed, untalented European who doesn't speak English or a black doctor from the West Indies who speaks fluent English.
Which one of those two should be given the freedom to move here and why?
If I was a fruit farmer, I'd have very little use for a doctor of any skin tone.
I have a business. I worry far more about illness than about issues that can be solved by money.0 -
I'm wondering if Boris will attempt to reinvent himself as the British Trump. His appeal to the metropolitan liberal constituency has gone for ever. To salvage his career maybe becoming a hard-right easy-sell populist is an option.Anorak said:
I think being slagged off by Trump should be embraced as an honour, not a humiliation. This helps Tessie more than the Blond Blagger.TheScreamingEagles said:This should help Mrs May.
Donald Trump today heaped praise on Cabinet quitter Boris Johnson as he said the UK was in political “turmoil”.
In a humiliating intervention for Theresa May, the US President said the former Foreign Secretary - who quit the Government with a blast at her Brexit plans - was “a great friend of mine”.
And he said it would be up to the British people whether or not Mrs May remains in power.https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/boris-johnson/news/96726/watch-donald-trump-heaps0 -
We've had the discussion ad nauseum. They can try either investing in more technology or paying more than minimum wage if they expect people to travel across the world for a temporary job.Anorak said:
Then I suggest you know nothing about how a fruit farm works. They need a fungible source of unskilled labour. They don't need a foreign cardiologist.Mortimer said:
Because fruit farmers don’t get ill? And a fruit farmer couldn’t pay higher wages?Anorak said:
Because they're the only two categories of immigrant...Philip_Thompson said:
Are you that inept and ignorant that you don't understand the difference?DecrepitJohnL said:
The EU wants FOM. We want to take back control but not actually to limit immigration. Look at non-EU immigration under Theresa May when she was Home Secretary for six years! Ample room for fudge. FOM is angels on the head of a pin stuff.archer101au said:
For fudge, you mean lie, right?DecrepitJohnL said:
Yet so inept are our political classes that this is what threatens our prosperity inside or outside the EU. It's like arguing about tariffs on dilithium crystals.
Control isn't about quantity it is about the kind of person we allow in.
Which is more useful for the country? A white unskilled, unemployed, untalented European who doesn't speak English or a black doctor from the West Indies who speaks fluent English.
Which one of those two should be given the freedom to move here and why?
If I was a fruit farmer, I'd have very little use for a doctor of any skin tone.
I have a business. I worry far more about illness than about issues that can be solved by money.
This country has full employment, people who are travelling here are able to find permanent jobs at minimum wage or better. Why do you think people should want to travel here for temporary jobs at minimum wage?0 -
Or they need to invest in plant and machinery, something that British agribusiness has been woeful at for many, many years. Having an unlimited pool of cheap labour has completely destroyed investment in many, many industries.Anorak said:
Then I suggest you know nothing about how a fruit farm works. They need a fungible source of unskilled labour. They don't need a foreign cardiologist.Mortimer said:
Because fruit farmers don’t get ill? And a fruit farmer couldn’t pay higher wages?Anorak said:
Because they're the only two categories of immigrant...Philip_Thompson said:
Are you that inept and ignorant that you don't understand the difference?DecrepitJohnL said:
The EU wants FOM. We want to take back control but not actually to limit immigration. Look at non-EU immigration under Theresa May when she was Home Secretary for six years! Ample room for fudge. FOM is angels on the head of a pin stuff.archer101au said:
For fudge, you mean lie, right?DecrepitJohnL said:
Yet so inept are our political classes that this is what threatens our prosperity inside or outside the EU. It's like arguing about tariffs on dilithium crystals.
Control isn't about quantity it is about the kind of person we allow in.
Which is more useful for the country? A white unskilled, unemployed, untalented European who doesn't speak English or a black doctor from the West Indies who speaks fluent English.
Which one of those two should be given the freedom to move here and why?
If I was a fruit farmer, I'd have very little use for a doctor of any skin tone.
I have a business. I worry far more about illness than about issues that can be solved by money.0 -
There is also a campaign to exempt day nurseries and child care providers from paying business rates - they pay over £500m a year. That would allow them to cut their charges which would benefit families and reduce the cost of childcare. It's been introduced in Scotland - since April - but not in England.Pulpstar said:I'm thinking this bill may well have some unintended consequences... plant nurseries to be exempt from rates:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-44767947
Tax relief for looking after plants but not for looking after our children?
https://www.daynurseries.co.uk/news/article.cfm/id/1594835/Government-must-face-facts-and-scrap-business-rates0 -
How does he beat Farage?Stark_Dawning said:I'm wondering if Boris will attempt to reinvent himself as the British Trump. His appeal to the metropolitan liberal constituency has gone for ever. To salvage his career maybe becoming a hard-right easy-sell populist is an option.
0 -
1) Labour is not "unlimited".MaxPB said:
Or they need to invest in plant and machinery, something that British agribusiness has been woeful at for many, many years. Having an unlimited pool of cheap labour has completely destroyed investment in many, many industries.Anorak said:
Then I suggest you know nothing about how a fruit farm works. They need a fungible source of unskilled labour. They don't need a foreign cardiologist.Mortimer said:
Because fruit farmers don’t get ill? And a fruit farmer couldn’t pay higher wages?Anorak said:
Because they're the only two categories of immigrant...Philip_Thompson said:
Are you that inept and ignorant that you don't understand the difference?DecrepitJohnL said:
The EU wants FOM. We want to take back control but not actually to limit immigration. Look at non-EU immigration under Theresa May when she was Home Secretary for six years! Ample room for fudge. FOM is angels on the head of a pin stuff.archer101au said:
For fudge, you mean lie, right?DecrepitJohnL said:
Yet so inept are our political classes that this is what threatens our prosperity inside or outside the EU. It's like arguing about tariffs on dilithium crystals.
Control isn't about quantity it is about the kind of person we allow in.
Which is more useful for the country? A white unskilled, unemployed, untalented European who doesn't speak English or a black doctor from the West Indies who speaks fluent English.
Which one of those two should be given the freedom to move here and why?
If I was a fruit farmer, I'd have very little use for a doctor of any skin tone.
I have a business. I worry far more about illness than about issues that can be solved by money.
2) Investment has not been "completely destroyed" in "many, many industries". Or are you going to name 15 of them?
3) Any farmer who invested in automation would have gone bankrupt because all his competitors had a supply of cheap labour.
But apart from the laughable hyperbole and detachment from market reality, good point.0 -
If I was setting up a child daycare centre I may well be tempted to add a small plant nursery section to the business...brendan16 said:
There is also a campaign to exempt day nurseries and child care providers from paying business rates - they pay over £500m a year. That would allow them to cut their charges which would benefit families and reduce the cost of childcare.Pulpstar said:I'm thinking this bill may well have some unintended consequences... plant nurseries to be exempt from rates:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-44767947
Tax relief for plants but not children?0 -
-
Good afternoon, everyone.
Ms. Anazina, ha, I saw that bit of Die Hard the other day too.
Has anyone else resigned?0 -
We have full employment *despite* bazillions of foreigners taking all our jobs and clogging up our schools and hospitals and talking funny on the bus. Right.Philip_Thompson said:
We've had the discussion ad nauseum. They can try either investing in more technology or paying more than minimum wage if they expect people to travel across the world for a temporary job.Anorak said:
Then I suggest you know nothing about how a fruit farm works. They need a fungible source of unskilled labour. They don't need a foreign cardiologist.Mortimer said:
Because fruit farmers don’t get ill? And a fruit farmer couldn’t pay higher wages?Anorak said:
Because they're the only two categories of immigrant...Philip_Thompson said:
Are you that inept and ignorant that you don't understand the difference?DecrepitJohnL said:
The EU wants FOM. We want to take back control but not actually to limit immigration. Look at non-EU immigration under Theresa May when she was Home Secretary for six years! Ample room for fudge. FOM is angels on the head of a pin stuff.archer101au said:
For fudge, you mean lie, right?DecrepitJohnL said:
Yet so inept are our political classes that this is what threatens our prosperity inside or outside the EU. It's like arguing about tariffs on dilithium crystals.
Control isn't about quantity it is about the kind of person we allow in.
Which is more useful for the country? A white unskilled, unemployed, untalented European who doesn't speak English or a black doctor from the West Indies who speaks fluent English.
Which one of those two should be given the freedom to move here and why?
If I was a fruit farmer, I'd have very little use for a doctor of any skin tone.
I have a business. I worry far more about illness than about issues that can be solved by money.
This country has full employment, people who are travelling here are able to find permanent jobs at minimum wage or better. Why do you think people should want to travel here for temporary jobs at minimum wage?0 -
It most likely wins a Tory membership ballot - if he makes the final 2 of course.Stark_Dawning said:
I'm wondering if Boris will attempt to reinvent himself as the British Trump. His appeal to the metropolitan liberal constituency has gone for ever. To salvage his career maybe becoming a hard-right easy-sell populist is an option.Anorak said:
I think being slagged off by Trump should be embraced as an honour, not a humiliation. This helps Tessie more than the Blond Blagger.TheScreamingEagles said:This should help Mrs May.
Donald Trump today heaped praise on Cabinet quitter Boris Johnson as he said the UK was in political “turmoil”.
In a humiliating intervention for Theresa May, the US President said the former Foreign Secretary - who quit the Government with a blast at her Brexit plans - was “a great friend of mine”.
And he said it would be up to the British people whether or not Mrs May remains in power.https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/boris-johnson/news/96726/watch-donald-trump-heaps0 -
unless you're proposing to have the children run among the mushrooms, it won't reduce your rates.Pulpstar said:
If I was setting up a child daycare centre I may well be tempted to add a small plant nursery section to the business...brendan16 said:
There is also a campaign to exempt day nurseries and child care providers from paying business rates - they pay over £500m a year. That would allow them to cut their charges which would benefit families and reduce the cost of childcare.Pulpstar said:I'm thinking this bill may well have some unintended consequences... plant nurseries to be exempt from rates:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-44767947
Tax relief for plants but not children?
separate heriditaments
0 -
Pour encourager les autres Rees Mogg will be smiling.Scott_P said:0 -
Interesting. Until Friday there was a general belief that May was batting for Hard(ish) Brexit. Now that she's flipped, it's not surprising if the party loses support to Ukip.HYUFD said:
If UKIP are on 5% they are already higher than they polled in 1997, 2001, 2005, 2010 and 2017.rottenborough said:
The only election they got more than 5% was 2015 when they got 12%.
Who said UKIP was dead?
Reviewing the last few days we can see that the flip to Soft(ish) Brexit was a political mistake: instability in government, her own position weakened, party support down.
Which leaves the question: why did she do it? The best answer is probably that she's become more realistic/pragmatic, especially with all the feedback she's been getting from Robbins about how the EU's red lines are a lot redder than hers will ever be. (It's always worth remembering that if it weren't for Northern Ireland, Brexit would be so much easier.) And the leaking of Tory support to Ukip paradoxically works in her favour, since it makes a snap election harder to win... unless she's deposed.
I think she's for the chop.0 -
Exactly. When you compare the option of a concrete Brexit deal versus being a member of the EU, the constituency for Brexit becomes very small indeed.Scott_P said:But equally, it might give momentum to those MPs who believe that a second referendum is needed on whether Brexit is really worth it.
https://www.ft.com/content/3a8059ca-8435-11e8-a29d-73e3d454535d0
This discussion has been closed.