politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Three Lions: just maybe
Comments
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I’ve had worst weeks.0
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What price Brussels vs England in the final?0
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Should have been favourites according to @Stodgeanother_richard said:
They were but had Shevchenko and Rebrov up front so had some quality.tlg86 said:
Ukraine were pretty poor in 2006.another_richard said:England have been competent but Sweden must be a contender for the worst team ever to reach a WC QF.
Sweden are utterly mediocre.0 -
Absolutely wonderful. Just magnificent.0
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Best goal-keeping performance of the Cup so far.Big_G_NorthWales said:Pickford again - what a star
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A good chanceCharles said:What price Brussels vs England in the final?
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The promise to leave the EU was only won on a promise to regain control of our borders and regain sovereignty that means free movement cannot stand as now whatever deal is done if any and as you confirm the Tory manifesto which won a majority on that platform in mainland Britain on that platform confirms thatnotme said:
“If they reject this offer in totality there is nothing further really to negotiate without abandoning almost all the Leave campaign promises so we start preparing for No Deal”
Leave campaign promises? No such thing. How can they promise anything? They weren’t a government. Or claiming to become one. The promise of the referendum was to leave the EU. That we are doing it. Two caveats though. May has tied herself with her own red lines. And stood for re election promising many of these in her manifesto. If for instance we opted for EEA single market. It isn’t the referendum, but the GE manifesto that’s been betrayed.
If EU won’t accept the free movement restrictions I can’t see anything that rivals membership of the eea as an alternative that causes minimum disruption. Either as a short term or long term decision.
This claim ”UK will also apply common rulebook to state aid; and maintain same standards for environment, climate change, social & employment and consumer protection” makes me sleep better at night. It will utterly prevent much of the ambitions of the more radical of Corbyn’s followers.0 -
We pay minimum legal obligations already committed tonotme said:
At what point does the settlement money become in doubt? With the lack of a deal do we walk away without paying?HYUFD said:
On the basis it would be accepted by the EU, if the EU rejects it and demands even more concessions that is a totally different ball gamewilliamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/1015589171082219520HYUFD said:It will most likely tell May she has to resign or face a no confidence vote and prepare for No Deal and a Mogg, Boris or Gove or Javid premiership.
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Where is @TSE, the Sage of South Yorkshire to tell me Mignolet is better?MarqueeMark said:
Best goal-keeping performance of the Cup so far.Big_G_NorthWales said:Pickford again - what a star
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They were highly competent (Sterling excepted) against very limited opponents and they had no bad luck either.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Wow, that seemed much easier than I feared at 3pm.HYUFD said:Full time. England win and will go to their first world cup semi final in 28 years on Wednesday
But it looks like the France vs Belgium game should be the effective final.0 -
made me laugh loudly.ydoethur said:
Brilliant retort in that thread:dr_spyn said:
http://www.twitter.com/brianbetts1/status/1015618615461208064
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If anyone wants something surreal:
Police investigate after cow seen in back of a car on M4 near Briton Ferry
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44750013
Reminds me of the time a farmer near Gloucester called Robin Hoare transported a steer in the back of his Mercedes as the axle had broken on his trailer. The police flagged him down and asked for proof that the cow [sic] was his.
His unforgettable reply was, 'Proof? Proof? My dear young man, the word of a Hoare is binding!'0 -
Very cool all roundSunil_Prasannan said:
Wow, that seemed much easier than I feared at 3pm.HYUFD said:Full time. England win and will go to their first world cup semi final in 28 years on Wednesday
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I expect a chant in the bank thereMarqueeMark said:
"You're shitHYUFD said:Though I have to say the Swedes won the contest of most beautiful spectators!
But your birds are fit....."0 -
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Will be at that one, but who knows? Maguire is a star.another_richard said:
They were highly competent (Sterling excepted) against very limited opponents and they had no bad luck either.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Wow, that seemed much easier than I feared at 3pm.HYUFD said:Full time. England win and will go to their first world cup semi final in 28 years on Wednesday
But it looks like the France vs Belgium game should be the effective final.0 -
That’s the nature of a negotiationsurby said:
The UK is still very much in the cherry picking state. The EU have all along shown their red lines.HYUFD said:
On the basis it would be accepted by the EU, if the EU rejects it and demands even more concessions that is a totally different ball gamewilliamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/1015589171082219520HYUFD said:It will most likely tell May she has to resign or face a no confidence vote and prepare for No Deal and a Mogg, Boris or Gove or Javid premiership.
The Uk has said no to FoM
The EU has said you can’t have anything without FoM
So you either stop negotiating or look for a deal that is acceptable to both sides (aka “cherry picking”)0 -
Particularly if they then boycotted the presentation ceremony in protest at Putin trying to murder five people in Wiltshire.HYUFD said:
That would be far more painful to him than a few diplomats being booted around the globe or everyone laughing at his fairy stories (to use a phrase from Russia Today).0 -
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No, on whether Three Lions or World in Motion is the better World Cup songnotme said:
Do,you suspect the referendum will be on whether we accept the deal or not or whether we leave or not?williamglenn said:
May is also in prime position to call a referendum when the time comes in which she can be neutral.felix said:
Me too - Corbyn will not be a happy bunny today. The ultras on both sides of the divide got a kicking from May and it shows.notme said:
“If they reject this offer in totality there is nothing further really to negotiate without abandoning almost all the Leave campaign promises so we start preparing for No Deal”
Leave campaign promises? No such thing. How can they promise anything? They weren’t a government. Or claiming to become one. The promise of the referendum was to leave the EU. That we are doing it. Two caveats though. May has tied herself with her own red lines. And stood for re election promising many of these in her manifesto. If for instance we opted for EEA single market. It isn’t the referendum, but the GE manifesto that’s been betrayed.
If EU won’t accept the free movement restrictions I can’t see anything that rivals membership of the eea as an alternative that causes minimum disruption. Either as a short term or long term decision.
This claim ”UK will also apply common rulebook to state aid; and maintain same standards for environment, climate change, social & employment and consumer protection” makes me sleep better at night. It will utterly prevent much of the ambitions of the more radical of Corbyn’s followers.
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Indeed. Whether that particular issue can be cracked to both sides' satisfaction or not (I think it will be doubtful), it seems notable that some people seem to think any pronouncements from the EU are cast iron, no point in discussing further, even as anything we say must be rolled back.Charles said:
That’s the nature of a negotiationsurby said:
The UK is still very much in the cherry picking state. The EU have all along shown their red lines.HYUFD said:
On the basis it would be accepted by the EU, if the EU rejects it and demands even more concessions that is a totally different ball gamewilliamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/1015589171082219520HYUFD said:It will most likely tell May she has to resign or face a no confidence vote and prepare for No Deal and a Mogg, Boris or Gove or Javid premiership.
The Uk has said no to FoM
The EU has said you can’t have anything without FoM
So you either stop negotiating or look for a deal that is acceptable to both sides (aka “cherry picking”)0 -
You have hit the jackpot with your tickets. Have a great time and every England player, apart from Sterling, were starsFoxy said:
Will be at that one, but who knows? Maguire is a star.another_richard said:
They were highly competent (Sterling excepted) against very limited opponents and they had no bad luck either.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Wow, that seemed much easier than I feared at 3pm.HYUFD said:Full time. England win and will go to their first world cup semi final in 28 years on Wednesday
But it looks like the France vs Belgium game should be the effective final.0 -
Remainers supporting Brussels?Charles said:What price Brussels vs England in the final?
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I would have said the EU are cherry-picking as well actually, particularly on things like regulatory alignment, the ECJ and security co-operation. Money could come into that - all debts included but no joint assets.Charles said:
That’s the nature of a negotiationsurby said:
The UK is still very much in the cherry picking state. The EU have all along shown their red lines.HYUFD said:
On the basis it would be accepted by the EU, if the EU rejects it and demands even more concessions that is a totally different ball gamewilliamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/1015589171082219520HYUFD said:It will most likely tell May she has to resign or face a no confidence vote and prepare for No Deal and a Mogg, Boris or Gove or Javid premiership.
The Uk has said no to FoM
The EU has said you can’t have anything without FoM
So you either stop negotiating or look for a deal that is acceptable to both sides (aka “cherry picking”)
It may be of course that their negotiating team are too drunk to realise this (we are talking about Barnier, Juncker and Selmayr after all) but they definitely want a lot from us while giving almost nothing in return. The problem is we're in such a weak position there's not much we can do about it in the short term.0 -
I have a strong feeling about that.Charles said:What price Brussels vs England in the final?
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Three Lions, obviously. No-one remembers anything about World In Motion apart from that it was good and that John Barnes does a rap.Sunil_Prasannan said:
No, on whether Three Lions or World in Motion is the better World Cup songnotme said:
Do,you suspect the referendum will be on whether we accept the deal or not or whether we leave or not?williamglenn said:
May is also in prime position to call a referendum when the time comes in which she can be neutral.felix said:
Me too - Corbyn will not be a happy bunny today. The ultras on both sides of the divide got a kicking from May and it shows.notme said:
“If they reject this offer in totality there is nothing further really to negotiate without abandoning almost all the Leave campaign promises so we start preparing for No Deal”
Leave campaign promises? No such thing. How can they promise anything? They weren’t a government. Or claiming to become one. The promise of the referendum was to leave the EU. That we are doing it. Two caveats though. May has tied herself with her own red lines. And stood for re election promising many of these in her manifesto. If for instance we opted for EEA single market. It isn’t the referendum, but the GE manifesto that’s been betrayed.
If EU won’t accept the free movement restrictions I can’t see anything that rivals membership of the eea as an alternative that causes minimum disruption. Either as a short term or long term decision.
This claim ”UK will also apply common rulebook to state aid; and maintain same standards for environment, climate change, social & employment and consumer protection” makes me sleep better at night. It will utterly prevent much of the ambitions of the more radical of Corbyn’s followers.
Mike linked to the most recent version in the header, which is fine but I thought I'd put the original up too, partly because that's what I wrote about but partly because - well, you know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJqimlFcJsM0 -
Theresa May is one lucky mother-trucker...
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Sterling played well. Maybe he should have scored, but he played well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have hit the jackpot with your tickets. Have a great time and every England player, apart from Sterling, were starsFoxy said:
Will be at that one, but who knows? Maguire is a star.another_richard said:
They were highly competent (Sterling excepted) against very limited opponents and they had no bad luck either.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Wow, that seemed much easier than I feared at 3pm.HYUFD said:Full time. England win and will go to their first world cup semi final in 28 years on Wednesday
But it looks like the France vs Belgium game should be the effective final.
England played better than I thought they were capable. Would love them to wallop Russia in the semi-final.0 -
The Tory manifesto did not win a majority.HYUFD said:
The promise to leave the EU was only won on a promise to regain control of our borders and regain sovereignty that means free movement cannot stand as now whatever deal is done if any and as you confirm the Tory manifesto which won a majority on that platform in mainland Britain on that platform confirms thatnotme said:
“If they reject this offer in totality there is nothing further really to negotiate without abandoning almost all the Leave campaign promises so we start preparing for No Deal”
Leave campaign promises? No such thing. How can they promise anything? They weren’t a government. Or claiming to become one. The promise of the referendum was to leave the EU. That we are doing it. Two caveats though. May has tied herself with her own red lines. And stood for re election promising many of these in her manifesto. If for instance we opted for EEA single market. It isn’t the referendum, but the GE manifesto that’s been betrayed.
If EU won’t accept the free movement restrictions I can’t see anything that rivals membership of the eea as an alternative that causes minimum disruption. Either as a short term or long term decision.
This claim ”UK will also apply common rulebook to state aid; and maintain same standards for environment, climate change, social & employment and consumer protection” makes me sleep better at night. It will utterly prevent much of the ambitions of the more radical of Corbyn’s followers.0 -
A bit of an anti-climax. It looked about as difficult as beating Stevie Wonder at darts!0
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Not as well as Rashford would haveOblitusSumMe said:
Sterling played well. Maybe he should have scored, but he played well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have hit the jackpot with your tickets. Have a great time and every England player, apart from Sterling, were starsFoxy said:
Will be at that one, but who knows? Maguire is a star.another_richard said:
They were highly competent (Sterling excepted) against very limited opponents and they had no bad luck either.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Wow, that seemed much easier than I feared at 3pm.HYUFD said:Full time. England win and will go to their first world cup semi final in 28 years on Wednesday
But it looks like the France vs Belgium game should be the effective final.
England played better than I thought they were capable. Would love them to wallop Russia in the semi-final.0 -
No, we just get prepared for May to abandon all the Leave campaign promises. She is a Remainer and the only thing she cares about is hanging on to power. Since the majority of her party and Cabinet are Remainers, that is what she will do. She will NEVER agree to no deal if she has any choice at all.HYUFD said:
If they reject this offer in totality there is nothing further really to negotiate without abandoning almost all the Leave campaign promises so we start preparing for No Dealsurby said:
The EU will definitely reject this offer [ in totality ]. The real question is whether they would accept this as a basis for negotiations.
They will definitely reject the offer in totality, but will agree to negotiate to extract more compromises from May.0 -
Shame his father didn’t live up to that standardydoethur said:If anyone wants something surreal:
Police investigate after cow seen in back of a car on M4 near Briton Ferry
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44750013
Reminds me of the time a farmer near Gloucester called Robin Hoare transported a steer in the back of his Mercedes as the axle had broken on his trailer. The police flagged him down and asked for proof that the cow [sic] was his.
His unforgettable reply was, 'Proof? Proof? My dear young man, the word of a Hoare is binding!'0 -
The Tory manifesto is the one being implemented by the Government though.anothernick said:
The Tory manifesto did not win a majority.HYUFD said:
The promise to leave the EU was only won on a promise to regain control of our borders and regain sovereignty that means free movement cannot stand as now whatever deal is done if any and as you confirm the Tory manifesto which won a majority on that platform in mainland Britain on that platform confirms thatnotme said:
“If they reject this offer in totality there is nothing further really to negotiate without abandoning almost all the Leave campaign promises so we start preparing for No Deal”
Leave campaign promises? No such thing. How can they promise anything? They weren’t a government. Or claiming to become one. The promise of the referendum was to leave the EU. That we are doing it. Two caveats though. May has tied herself with her own red lines. And stood for re election promising many of these in her manifesto. If for instance we opted for EEA single market. It isn’t the referendum, but the GE manifesto that’s been betrayed.
If EU won’t accept the free movement restrictions I can’t see anything that rivals membership of the eea as an alternative that causes minimum disruption. Either as a short term or long term decision.
This claim ”UK will also apply common rulebook to state aid; and maintain same standards for environment, climate change, social & employment and consumer protection” makes me sleep better at night. It will utterly prevent much of the ambitions of the more radical of Corbyn’s followers.
How's Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn doing, implementing Labour's?0 -
He did in fairness say 'on the mainland' which it just about did (317 of 632).anothernick said:
The Tory manifesto did not win a majority.HYUFD said:
The promise to leave the EU was only won on a promise to regain control of our borders and regain sovereignty that means free movement cannot stand as now whatever deal is done if any and as you confirm the Tory manifesto which won a majority on that platform in mainland Britain on that platform confirms thatnotme said:
“If they reject this offer in totality there is nothing further really to negotiate without abandoning almost all the Leave campaign promises so we start preparing for No Deal”
Leave campaign promises? No such thing. How can they promise anything? They weren’t a government. Or claiming to become one. The promise of the referendum was to leave the EU. That we are doing it. Two caveats though. May has tied herself with her own red lines. And stood for re election promising many of these in her manifesto. If for instance we opted for EEA single market. It isn’t the referendum, but the GE manifesto that’s been betrayed.
If EU won’t accept the free movement restrictions I can’t see anything that rivals membership of the eea as an alternative that causes minimum disruption. Either as a short term or long term decision.
This claim ”UK will also apply common rulebook to state aid; and maintain same standards for environment, climate change, social & employment and consumer protection” makes me sleep better at night. It will utterly prevent much of the ambitions of the more radical of Corbyn’s followers.
Although that's a bit like saying 'Napoleon did really well in all his battles in 1815 apart from that cock-up at Waterloo.'0 -
Well I might have played Rashford from the start, but we'll never know now and I thought he earnt his placed in the team today.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not as well as Rashford would haveOblitusSumMe said:
Sterling played well. Maybe he should have scored, but he played well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have hit the jackpot with your tickets. Have a great time and every England player, apart from Sterling, were starsFoxy said:
Will be at that one, but who knows? Maguire is a star.another_richard said:
They were highly competent (Sterling excepted) against very limited opponents and they had no bad luck either.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Wow, that seemed much easier than I feared at 3pm.HYUFD said:Full time. England win and will go to their first world cup semi final in 28 years on Wednesday
But it looks like the France vs Belgium game should be the effective final.
England played better than I thought they were capable. Would love them to wallop Russia in the semi-final.0 -
Maybe she just cares about the economic interest of the Countryarcher101au said:
No, we just get prepared for May to abandon all the Leave campaign promises. She is a Remainer and the only thing she cares about is hanging on to power. Since the majority of her party and Cabinet are Remainers, that is what she will do. She will NEVER agree to no deal if she has any choice at all.HYUFD said:
If they reject this offer in totality there is nothing further really to negotiate without abandoning almost all the Leave campaign promises so we start preparing for No Dealsurby said:
The EU will definitely reject this offer [ in totality ]. The real question is whether they would accept this as a basis for negotiations.
They will definitely reject the offer in totality, but will agree to negotiate to extract more compromises from May.0 -
Fair commentOblitusSumMe said:
Well I might have played Rashford from the start, but we'll never know now and I thought he earnt his placed in the team today.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not as well as Rashford would haveOblitusSumMe said:
Sterling played well. Maybe he should have scored, but he played well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have hit the jackpot with your tickets. Have a great time and every England player, apart from Sterling, were starsFoxy said:
Will be at that one, but who knows? Maguire is a star.another_richard said:
They were highly competent (Sterling excepted) against very limited opponents and they had no bad luck either.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Wow, that seemed much easier than I feared at 3pm.HYUFD said:Full time. England win and will go to their first world cup semi final in 28 years on Wednesday
But it looks like the France vs Belgium game should be the effective final.
England played better than I thought they were capable. Would love them to wallop Russia in the semi-final.0 -
No as there are no more compromises to be made. This is it. If the EU reject this deal Johnson and Gove would likely walk out of the Cabinet and maybe even Javid too and Mogg would order the ERG to initiate a no confidence vote in May if she offered any more concessions.archer101au said:
No, we just get prepared for May to abandon all the Leave campaign promises. She is a Remainer and the only thing she cares about is hanging on to power. Since the majority of her party and Cabinet are Remainers, that is what she will do. She will NEVER agree to no deal if she has any choice at all.HYUFD said:
If they reject this offer in totality there is nothing further really to negotiate without abandoning almost all the Leave campaign promises so we start preparing for No Dealsurby said:
The EU will definitely reject this offer [ in totality ]. The real question is whether they would accept this as a basis for negotiations.
They will definitely reject the offer in totality, but will agree to negotiate to extract more compromises from May.
Mogg has already said he will vote down this deal yet alone one with more concessions0 -
Gove will go down in history as the man who betrayed Brexit. His backstabbing of Boris led to a Remain PM and now his personal obsession with staying in the Cabinet is allowing May to sell out Brexit.williamglenn said:
His justification that we need to leave and we can sort out the details later totally lacks any sort of credibility or logic. There is zero chance that and future UK Government will ever re-address the withdrawal agreement. His position is totally self-serving.
I always believed that Boris was honest about supporting Brexit. But the more I see Gove the more clear it is that he just supported Brexit to get his own back on Cameron. He never expected to win. Apparently he didn't even stay up to see the results.
There is a special place in hell reserved for Michael Gove.
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Isn't this "freedom of Labour mobility" basically freedom of movement tho?Charles said:
That’s the nature of a negotiationsurby said:
The UK is still very much in the cherry picking state. The EU have all along shown their red lines.HYUFD said:
On the basis it would be accepted by the EU, if the EU rejects it and demands even more concessions that is a totally different ball gamewilliamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/1015589171082219520HYUFD said:It will most likely tell May she has to resign or face a no confidence vote and prepare for No Deal and a Mogg, Boris or Gove or Javid premiership.
The Uk has said no to FoM
The EU has said you can’t have anything without FoM
So you either stop negotiating or look for a deal that is acceptable to both sides (aka “cherry picking”)
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Isn't this "freedom of Labour mobility" basically freedom of movement tho?Charles said:
That’s the nature of a negotiationsurby said:
The UK is still very much in the cherry picking state. The EU have all along shown their red lines.HYUFD said:
On the basis it would be accepted by the EU, if the EU rejects it and demands even more concessions that is a totally different ball gamewilliamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/1015589171082219520HYUFD said:It will most likely tell May she has to resign or face a no confidence vote and prepare for No Deal and a Mogg, Boris or Gove or Javid premiership.
The Uk has said no to FoM
The EU has said you can’t have anything without FoM
So you either stop negotiating or look for a deal that is acceptable to both sides (aka “cherry picking”)
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Or Prime Minister some dayarcher101au said:
Gove will go down in history as the man who betrayed Brexit. His backstabbing of Boris led to a Remain PM and now his personal obsession with staying in the Cabinet is allowing May to sell out Brexit.williamglenn said:
His justification that we need to leave and we can sort out the details later totally lacks any sort of credibility or logic. There is zero chance that and future UK Government will ever re-address the withdrawal agreement. His position is totally self-serving.
I always believed that Boris was honest about supporting Brexit. But the more I see Gove the more clear it is that he just supported Brexit to get his own back on Cameron. He never expected to win. Apparently he didn't even stay up to see the results.
There is a special place in hell reserved for Michael Gove.0 -
It won a majority of English, Welsh and Scottish seats combined and in the UK after the DUP backed the Tories on confidence and supplyanothernick said:
The Tory manifesto did not win a majority.HYUFD said:
The promise to leave the EU was only won on a promise to regain control of our borders and regain sovereignty that means free movement cannot stand as now whatever deal is done if any and as you confirm the Tory manifesto which won a majority on that platform in mainland Britain on that platform confirms thatnotme said:
“If they reject this offer in totality there is nothing further really to negotiate without abandoning almost all the Leave campaign promises so we start preparing for No Deal”
Leave campaign promises? No such thing. How can they promise anything? They weren’t a government. Or claiming to become one. The promise of the referendum was to leave the EU. That we are doing it. Two caveats though. May has tied herself with her own red lines. And stood for re election promising many of these in her manifesto. If for instance we opted for EEA single market. It isn’t the referendum, but the GE manifesto that’s been betrayed.
If EU won’t accept the free movement restrictions I can’t see anything that rivals membership of the eea as an alternative that causes minimum disruption. Either as a short term or long term decision.
This claim ”UK will also apply common rulebook to state aid; and maintain same standards for environment, climate change, social & employment and consumer protection” makes me sleep better at night. It will utterly prevent much of the ambitions of the more radical of Corbyn’s followers.0 -
13/5 against a Belgium vs England final with Bet365.Charles said:What price Brussels vs England in the final?
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What percentage of Conservative donors in the business community do you reckon would switch to the Lib Dems?HYUFD said:
It would end up being No Deal given the Tory and DUP majority plus a few Labour Leave MPs would back No Deal too if the EU reject this offerPeterC said:HYUFD said:
Correct. If the EU reject this offer No Deal is almost inevitablePeterC said:
Overthrowing May would imply a commitment to NO DEAL - that would be the only other Brexit available.HYUFD said:
May has gone as far as her red lines will allow her, she cannot go any further without the Tory Party overthrowing her and replacing her with a harder line Brexiteersurby said:
The UK is still very much in the cherry picking state. The EU have all along shown their red lines.HYUFD said:
On the basis it would be accepted by the EU, if the EU rejects it and demands even more concessions that is a totally different ball gamewilliamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/1015589171082219520HYUFD said:It will most likely tell May she has to resign or face a no confidence vote and prepare for No Deal and a Mogg, Boris or Gove or Javid premiership.
There would be a huge political crisis in such circumstances, whether May is toppled or not. The wider debate would range around Norway, No Deal and Remain.HYUFD said:
Correct. If the EU reject this offer No Deal is almost inevitablePeterC said:
Overthrowing May would imply a commitment to NO DEAL - that would be the only other Brexit available.HYUFD said:
May has gone as far as her red lines will allow her, she cannot go any further without the Tory Party overthrowing her and replacing her with a harder line Brexiteersurby said:
The UK is still very much in the cherry picking state. The EU have all along shown their red lines.HYUFD said:
On the basis it would be accepted by the EU, if the EU rejects it and demands even more concessions that is a totally different ball gamewilliamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/1015589171082219520HYUFD said:It will most likely tell May she has to resign or face a no confidence vote and prepare for No Deal and a Mogg, Boris or Gove or Javid premiership.
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I don't know whether to argue with you or just feel sorry for you. I get the impression that even you, as a Remainer, are shocked how much May has just conceded for nothing.HYUFD said:
No as there are no more compromises to be made. This is it. If the EU reject this deal Johnson and Gove would likely walk out of the Cabinet and maybe even Javid too and Mogg would order the ERG to initiate a no confidence vote in May if she offered any more concessionsarcher101au said:
No, we just get prepared for May to abandon all the Leave campaign promises. She is a Remainer and the only thing she cares about is hanging on to power. Since the majority of her party and Cabinet are Remainers, that is what she will do. She will NEVER agree to no deal if she has any choice at all.HYUFD said:
If they reject this offer in totality there is nothing further really to negotiate without abandoning almost all the Leave campaign promises so we start preparing for No Dealsurby said:
The EU will definitely reject this offer [ in totality ]. The real question is whether they would accept this as a basis for negotiations.
They will definitely reject the offer in totality, but will agree to negotiate to extract more compromises from May.
The deal is very clear. We will get no actual ability to block future EU regulations (if we do, the NI backstop will automatically activate, so it will be impossible). We will have to pay billions for quasi-SM access. We will submit to ECJ jurisdiction. We will have freedom of movement for anyone with a job offer (eg virtually unchanged). We will pay 40bn in return for no actual link to any trade deal. The withdrawal agreement will be under ECJ jurisdiction. The NI backstop will be legally binding and the trade agreement will not. All red lines will be erased.0 -
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Think about that later, they have to win it firstydoethur said:
Particularly if they then boycotted the presentation ceremony in protest at Putin trying to murder five people in Wiltshire.HYUFD said:
That would be far more painful to him than a few diplomats being booted around the globe or everyone laughing at his fairy stories (to use a phrase from Russia Today).0 -
Haven’t seen the detail but shouldn’t benunuone said:
Isn't this "freedom of Labour mobility" basically freedom of movement tho?Charles said:
That’s the nature of a negotiationsurby said:
The UK is still very much in the cherry picking state. The EU have all along shown their red lines.HYUFD said:
On the basis it would be accepted by the EU, if the EU rejects it and demands even more concessions that is a totally different ball gamewilliamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/1015589171082219520HYUFD said:It will most likely tell May she has to resign or face a no confidence vote and prepare for No Deal and a Mogg, Boris or Gove or Javid premiership.
The Uk has said no to FoM
The EU has said you can’t have anything without FoM
So you either stop negotiating or look for a deal that is acceptable to both sides (aka “cherry picking”)
FoLM is effectively an automatic work permit
FoM is the right to come to the UK to look for work *and* have the same access to benefits as a U.K. citizen0 -
You mean "were bribed with taxpayers` money", surely...HYUFD said:
It won a majority of English, Welsh and Scottish seats combined and in the UK after the DUP backed the Tories on confidence and supplyanothernick said:
The Tory manifesto did not win a majority.HYUFD said:
The promise to leave the EU was only won on a promise to regain control of our borders and regain sovereignty that means free movement cannot stand as now whatever deal is done if any and as you confirm the Tory manifesto which won a majority on that platform in mainland Britain on that platform confirms thatnotme said:
“If they reject this offer in totality there is nothing further really to negotiate without abandoning almost all the Leave campaign promises so we start preparing for No Deal”
Leave campaign promises? No such thing. How can they promise anything? They weren’t a government. Or claiming to become one. The promise of the referendum was to leave the EU. That we are doing it. Two caveats though. May has tied herself with her own red lines. And stood for re election promising many of these in her manifesto. If for instance we opted for EEA single market. It isn’t the referendum, but the GE manifesto that’s been betrayed.
If EU won’t accept the free movement restrictions I can’t see anything that rivals membership of the eea as an alternative that causes minimum disruption. Either as a short term or long term decision.
This claim ”UK will also apply common rulebook to state aid; and maintain same standards for environment, climate change, social & employment and consumer protection” makes me sleep better at night. It will utterly prevent much of the ambitions of the more radical of Corbyn’s followers.0 -
It was a joke...DecrepitJohnL said:
13/5 against a Belgium vs England final with Bet365.Charles said:What price Brussels vs England in the final?
Edit: but thank you anyway0 -
Hmmm...archer101au said:
No, we just get prepared for May to abandon all the Leave campaign promises. She is a Remainer and the only thing she cares about is hanging on to power. Since the majority of her party and Cabinet are Remainers, that is what she will do. She will NEVER agree to no deal if she has any choice at all.HYUFD said:
If they reject this offer in totality there is nothing further really to negotiate without abandoning almost all the Leave campaign promises so we start preparing for No Dealsurby said:
The EU will definitely reject this offer [ in totality ]. The real question is whether they would accept this as a basis for negotiations.
They will definitely reject the offer in totality, but will agree to negotiate to extract more compromises from May.
There are some politicians who have been strongly Eurosceptic all the way through their careers but during the referendum mysteriously came down for Remain.
Corbyn is one. May is another. Javid is a third.
Hammond and Hague could be added to that list, although they seem to have genuinely drifted away from their earlier positions in advance of the referendum while at the Foreign Office (which says something about how strongly in favour of the EU that department is).
May was the one who came up with the line 'Brexit means Brexit,' unprompted, at the moment she had thrashed three leaver candidates so hard they all withdrew. She didn't have to do that. Indeed she had a golden opportunity not to tie her hands, and instead start a conversation with the country about the next stage. She did it I think largely because she wanted to, as the fulfilment of an ambition she had always wanted but had decided was impossible - to get rid of the EU. (She has made other mistakes like this - cf dementia tax.)
I do not think I would call her a Remainer on that basis. However, I do agree with your ultimate point - I'm pretty sure her primary concern is not what deal she can or can't get, but hanging on to power.0 -
If he had resigned, he would have been PM by the end of the month. He will never be PM now. Watch his support collapse in the Tory polls.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Or Prime Minister some dayarcher101au said:
Gove will go down in history as the man who betrayed Brexit. His backstabbing of Boris led to a Remain PM and now his personal obsession with staying in the Cabinet is allowing May to sell out Brexit.williamglenn said:
His justification that we need to leave and we can sort out the details later totally lacks any sort of credibility or logic. There is zero chance that and future UK Government will ever re-address the withdrawal agreement. His position is totally self-serving.
I always believed that Boris was honest about supporting Brexit. But the more I see Gove the more clear it is that he just supported Brexit to get his own back on Cameron. He never expected to win. Apparently he didn't even stay up to see the results.
There is a special place in hell reserved for Michael Gove.0 -
As you point out May's offer has conceded a lot to the EU, while still technically leaving the single market and customs union and ending free movement. So this really is as far as May can go and stay in post as Tory leader and PMarcher101au said:
I don't know whether to argue with you or just feel sorry for you. I get the impression that even you, as a Remainer, are shocked how much May has just conceded for nothing.HYUFD said:
No as there are no more compromises to be made. This is it. If the EU reject this deal Johnson and Gove would likely walk out of the Cabinet and maybe even Javid too and Mogg would order the ERG to initiate a no confidence vote in May if she offered any more concessionsarcher101au said:
No, we just get prepared for May to abandon all the Leave campaign promises. She is a Remainer and the only thing she cares about is hanging on to power. Since the majority of her party and Cabinet are Remainers, that is what she will do. She will NEVER agree to no deal if she has any choice at all.HYUFD said:
If they reject this offer in totality there is nothing further really to negotiate without abandoning almost all the Leave campaign promises so we start preparing for No Dealsurby said:
The EU will definitely reject this offer [ in totality ]. The real question is whether they would accept this as a basis for negotiations.
They will definitely reject the offer in totality, but will agree to negotiate to extract more compromises from May.
The deal is very clear. We will get no actual ability to block future EU regulations (if we do, the NI backstop will automatically activate, so it will be impossible). We will have to pay billions for quasi-SM access. We will submit to ECJ jurisdiction. We will have freedom of movement for anyone with a job offer (eg virtually unchanged). We will pay 40bn in return for no actual link to any trade deal. The withdrawal agreement will be under ECJ jurisdiction. The NI backstop will be legally binding and the trade agreement will not. All red lines will be erased.0 -
Oi. Everyone remembers everything about World in Motion. "Express yourself!"david_herdson said:
Three Lions, obviously. No-one remembers anything about World In Motion apart from that it was good and that John Barnes does a rap.Sunil_Prasannan said:
No, on whether Three Lions or World in Motion is the better World Cup songnotme said:
Do,you suspect the referendum will be on whether we accept the deal or not or whether we leave or not?williamglenn said:
May is also in prime position to call a referendum when the time comes in which she can be neutral.felix said:
Me too - Corbyn will not be a happy bunny today. The ultras on both sides of the divide got a kicking from May and it shows.notme said:
“If they reject this offer in totality there is nothing further really to negotiate without abandoning almost all the Leave campaign promises so we start preparing for No Deal”
Leave campaign promises? No such thing. How can they promise anything? They weren’t a government. Or claiming to become one. The promise of the referendum was to leave the EU. That we are doing it. Two caveats though. May has tied herself with her own red lines. And stood for re election promising many of these in her manifesto. If for instance we opted for EEA single market. It isn’t the referendum, but the GE manifesto that’s been betrayed.
If EU won’t accept the free movement restrictions I can’t see anything that rivals membership of the eea as an alternative that causes minimum disruption. Either as a short term or long term decision.
This claim ”UK will also apply common rulebook to state aid; and maintain same standards for environment, climate change, social & employment and consumer protection” makes me sleep better at night. It will utterly prevent much of the ambitions of the more radical of Corbyn’s followers.
Mike linked to the most recent version in the header, which is fine but I thought I'd put the original up too, partly because that's what I wrote about but partly because - well, you know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJqimlFcJsM
Much better song!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re4aDJL3heA0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re4aDJL3heAdavid_herdson said:
Three Lions, obviously. No-one remembers anything about World In Motion apart from that it was good and that John Barnes does a rap.Sunil_Prasannan said:
No, on whether Three Lions or World in Motion is the better World Cup songnotme said:
Do,you suspect the referendum will be on whether we accept the deal or not or whether we leave or not?williamglenn said:
May is also in prime position to call a referendum when the time comes in which she can be neutral.felix said:
Me too - Corbyn will not be a happy bunny today. The ultras on both sides of the divide got a kicking from May and it shows.notme said:
“If they reject this offer in totality there is nothing further really to negotiate without abandoning almost all the Leave campaign promises so we start preparing for No Deal”
Leave campaign promises? No such thing. How can they promise anything? They weren’t a government. Or claiming to become one. The promise of the referendum was to leave the EU. That we are doing it. Two caveats though. May has tied herself with her own red lines. And stood for re election promising many of these in her manifesto. If for instance we opted for EEA single market. It isn’t the referendum, but the GE manifesto that’s been betrayed.
If EU won’t accept the free movement restrictions I can’t see anything that rivals membership of the eea as an alternative that causes minimum disruption. Either as a short term or long term decision.
This claim ”UK will also apply common rulebook to state aid; and maintain same standards for environment, climate change, social & employment and consumer protection” makes me sleep better at night. It will utterly prevent much of the ambitions of the more radical of Corbyn’s followers.0 -
So even if there's no deal, there is some very good news.archer101au said:
If he had resigned, he would have been PM by the end of the month. He will never be PM now. Watch his support collapse in the Tory polls.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Or Prime Minister some dayarcher101au said:
Gove will go down in history as the man who betrayed Brexit. His backstabbing of Boris led to a Remain PM and now his personal obsession with staying in the Cabinet is allowing May to sell out Brexit.williamglenn said:
His justification that we need to leave and we can sort out the details later totally lacks any sort of credibility or logic. There is zero chance that and future UK Government will ever re-address the withdrawal agreement. His position is totally self-serving.
I always believed that Boris was honest about supporting Brexit. But the more I see Gove the more clear it is that he just supported Brexit to get his own back on Cameron. He never expected to win. Apparently he didn't even stay up to see the results.
There is a special place in hell reserved for Michael Gove.0 -
0
-
Alli, NOT Ali FFS!dr_spyn said:0 -
Far fewer I expect than the number of Leave voting Tory voters who would stay at home or vote UKIP at the next general election if May concedes anything more to the EU.PClipp said:
What percentage of Conservative donors in the business community do you reckon would switch to the Lib Dems?HYUFD said:
It would end up being No Deal this offerPeterC said:HYUFD said:
Correct. If the EU reject this offer No Deal is almost inevitablePeterC said:
Overthrowing May would imply a commitment to NO DEAL - that would be the only other Brexit available.HYUFD said:
May has gone as far as her red lines will allow her, she cannot go any further without the Tory Party overthrowing her and replacing her with a harder line Brexiteersurby said:
The UK is still very much in the cherry picking state. The EU have all along shown their red lines.HYUFD said:
On the basis it would be accepted by the EU, if the EU rejects it and demands even more concessions that is a totally different ball gamewilliamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/1015589171082219520HYUFD said:It will most likely tell May she has to resign or face a no confidence vote and prepare for No Deal and a Mogg, Boris or Gove or Javid premiership.
There would be a huge political crisis in such circumstances, whether May is toppled or not. The wider debate would range around Norway, No Deal and Remain.HYUFD said:
Correct. If the EU reject this offer No Deal is almost inevitablePeterC said:
Overthrowing May would imply a commitment to NO DEAL - that would be the only other Brexit available.HYUFD said:
May has gone as far as her red lines will allow her, er line Brexiteersurby said:
The UK is still very much in the cherry picking state. The EU have all along shown their red lines.HYUFD said:
On the basis it would be accepted by the EU, if the EU amewilliamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/1015589171082219520HYUFD said:It will most likely tell May she has to resign or face a no confidence vote and prepare for No Deal and a Mogg, Boris or Gove or Javid premiership.
Plus if the LDs have more money that means they can run more ads targeting Labour Remainers who think Corbyn has sold out to Brexiteers0 -
Good evening, everyone.
F1: wryly miffed that my Raikkonen bet was a tenth off winning outright and half a tenth off winning each way. Still, that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Hope Croatia crush Russia.0 -
Best man at a wedding. Sweating in his waistcoat and morning suit.dixiedean said:
Where is @TSE, the Sage of South Yorkshire to tell me Mignolet is better?MarqueeMark said:
Best goal-keeping performance of the Cup so far.Big_G_NorthWales said:Pickford again - what a star
0 -
I think this is very close to the truth. If you read Tim Shipman's account, Boris Johnson genuinely agonised about which way to go and while there was undoubtedly some personal political calculation there, I think he succeeded in fooling himself that Brexit was on the right side of history and he was doing the right thing. In comparison Gove seems to have been the one who was motivated by personal vengeance and narcissism.archer101au said:
Gove will go down in history as the man who betrayed Brexit. His backstabbing of Boris led to a Remain PM and now his personal obsession with staying in the Cabinet is allowing May to sell out Brexit.williamglenn said:
His justification that we need to leave and we can sort out the details later totally lacks any sort of credibility or logic. There is zero chance that and future UK Government will ever re-address the withdrawal agreement. His position is totally self-serving.
I always believed that Boris was honest about supporting Brexit. But the more I see Gove the more clear it is that he just supported Brexit to get his own back on Cameron. He never expected to win. Apparently he didn't even stay up to see the results.
There is a special place in hell reserved for Michael Gove.0 -
Southgate shows how not to sweat in a waistcoat.....Foxy said:
Best man at a wedding. Sweating in his waistcoat and morning suit.dixiedean said:
Where is @TSE, the Sage of South Yorkshire to tell me Mignolet is better?MarqueeMark said:
Best goal-keeping performance of the Cup so far.Big_G_NorthWales said:Pickford again - what a star
0 -
The DUP didn’t receive any money, tax payers or not.PClipp said:
You mean "were bribed with taxpayers` money", surely...HYUFD said:
It won a majority of English, Welsh and Scottish seats combined and in the UK after the DUP backed the Tories on confidence and supplyanothernick said:
The Tory manifesto did not win a majority.HYUFD said:
The promise to leave the EU was only won on a promise to regain control of our borders and regain sovereignty that means free movement cannot stand as now whatever deal is done if any and as you confirm the Tory manifesto which won a majority on that platform in mainland Britain on that platform confirms thatnotme said:
“If they reject this offer in totality there is nothing further really to negotiate without abandoning almost all the Leave campaign promises so we start preparing for No Deal”
Leave campaign promises? No such thing. How can they promise anything? They weren’t a government. Or claiming to become one. The promise of the referendum was to leave the EU. That we are doing it. Two caveats though. May has tied herself with her own red lines. And stood for re election promising many of these in her manifesto. If for instance we opted for EEA single market. It isn’t the referendum, but the GE manifesto that’s been betrayed.
If EU won’t accept the free movement restrictions I can’t see anything that rivals membership of the eea as an alternative that causes minimum disruption. Either as a short term or long term decision.
This claim ”UK will also apply common rulebook to state aid; and maintain same standards for environment, climate change, social & employment and consumer protection” makes me sleep better at night. It will utterly prevent much of the ambitions of the more radical of Corbyn’s followers.
They simply proposed some changes to the governments spending plans and, on that basis, were willing to support it0 -
Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not as well as Rashford would haveOblitusSumMe said:
Sterling played well. Maybe he should have scored, but he played well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have hit the jackpot with your tickets. Have a great time and every England player, apart from Sterling, were starsFoxy said:
Will be at that one, but who knows? Maguire is a star.another_richard said:
They were highly competent (Sterling excepted) against very limited opponents and they had no bad luck either.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Wow, that seemed much easier than I feared at 3pm.HYUFD said:Full time. England win and will go to their first world cup semi final in 28 years on Wednesday
But it looks like the France vs Belgium game should be the effective final.
England played better than I thought they were capable. Would love them to wallop Russia in the semi-final.
Clearly not a view shared by the England manager. Maybe you should take your Man United colour specs off.0 -
I don't think so. Gove is a loyalist, not a rebel. He let Dave move him from education, where he was making enemies. I reckon he is a genuine Leaver, not too worried by details.williamglenn said:
I think this is very close to the truth. If you read Tim Shipman's account, Boris Johnson genuinely agonised about which way to go and while there was undoubtedly some personal political calculation there, I think he succeeded in fooling himself that Brexit was on the right side of history and he was doing the right thing. In comparison Gove seems to have been the one who was motivated by personal vengeance and narcissism.archer101au said:
Gove will go down in history as the man who betrayed Brexit. His backstabbing of Boris led to a Remain PM and now his personal obsession with staying in the Cabinet is allowing May to sell out Brexit.williamglenn said:
His justification that we need to leave and we can sort out the details later totally lacks any sort of credibility or logic. There is zero chance that and future UK Government will ever re-address the withdrawal agreement. His position is totally self-serving.
I always believed that Boris was honest about supporting Brexit. But the more I see Gove the more clear it is that he just supported Brexit to get his own back on Cameron. He never expected to win. Apparently he didn't even stay up to see the results.
There is a special place in hell reserved for Michael Gove.0 -
The Brexiteer list of who betrayed Brexit is likely to be nearly as long as the Brexiteer list of excuses as to why Brexit failedarcher101au said:
Gove will go down in history as the man who betrayed Brexit. His backstabbing of Boris led to a Remain PM and now his personal obsession with staying in the Cabinet is allowing May to sell out Brexit.williamglenn said:
His justification that we need to leave and we can sort out the details later totally lacks any sort of credibility or logic. There is zero chance that and future UK Government will ever re-address the withdrawal agreement. His position is totally self-serving.
I always believed that Boris was honest about supporting Brexit. But the more I see Gove the more clear it is that he just supported Brexit to get his own back on Cameron. He never expected to win. Apparently he didn't even stay up to see the results.
There is a special place in hell reserved for Michael Gove.0 -
He's an idealogical leaver because he's a British nationalist who believes in undiluted Westminster power, but he didn't need to debase the campaign in the way he did nor play such a prominent role. He enjoyed being a crowd-pleaser for once in his life a bit too much.Foxy said:
I don't think so. Gove is a loyalist, not a rebel. He let Dave move him from education, where he was making enemies. I reckon he is a genuine Leaver, not too worried by details.williamglenn said:
I think this is very close to the truth. If you read Tim Shipman's account, Boris Johnson genuinely agonised about which way to go and while there was undoubtedly some personal political calculation there, I think he succeeded in fooling himself that Brexit was on the right side of history and he was doing the right thing. In comparison Gove seems to have been the one who was motivated by personal vengeance and narcissism.archer101au said:
Gove will go down in history as the man who betrayed Brexit. His backstabbing of Boris led to a Remain PM and now his personal obsession with staying in the Cabinet is allowing May to sell out Brexit.williamglenn said:
His justification that we need to leave and we can sort out the details later totally lacks any sort of credibility or logic. There is zero chance that and future UK Government will ever re-address the withdrawal agreement. His position is totally self-serving.
I always believed that Boris was honest about supporting Brexit. But the more I see Gove the more clear it is that he just supported Brexit to get his own back on Cameron. He never expected to win. Apparently he didn't even stay up to see the results.
There is a special place in hell reserved for Michael Gove.0 -
Vindaloo!Sunil_Prasannan said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re4aDJL3heAdavid_herdson said:
Three Lions, obviously. No-one remembers anything about World In Motion apart from that it was good and that John Barnes does a rap.Sunil_Prasannan said:
No, on whether Three Lions or World in Motion is the better World Cup songnotme said:
Do,you suspect the referendum will be on whether we accept the deal or not or whether we leave or not?williamglenn said:
May is also in prime position to call a referendum when the time comes in which she can be neutral.felix said:
Me too - Corbyn will not be a happy bunny today. The ultras on both sides of the divide got a kicking from May and it shows.notme said:
“If they reject this offer in totality there is nothing further really to negotiate without abandoning almost all the Leave campaign promises so we start preparing for No Deal”
Leave campaign promises? No such thing. How can they promise anything? They weren’t a government. Or claiming to become one. The promise of the referendum was to leave the EU. That we are doing it. Two caveats though. May has tied herself with her own red lines. And stood for re election promising many of these in her manifesto. If for instance we opted for EEA single market. It isn’t the referendum, but the GE manifesto that’s been betrayed.
If EU won’t accept the free movement restrictions I can’t see anything that rivals membership of the eea as an alternative that causes minimum disruption. Either as a short term or long term decision.
This claim ”UK will also apply common rulebook to state aid; and maintain same standards for environment, climate change, social & employment and consumer protection” makes me sleep better at night. It will utterly prevent much of the ambitions of the more radical of Corbyn’s followers.
https://youtu.be/KaBdajHOsSM0 -
Tezzie: 'We take every game at a time.'
She can't even get football clichés right, ffs.0 -
I don't pretend to know Theresa May's fundamental political philosophy, but a more parsimonious explanation is that she saw in hard Brexit an opportunity to break the mould of British politics, by winning the votes of working-class Labour voters on the basis of a hard, anti-immigrant Brexit.ydoethur said:May was the one who came up with the line 'Brexit means Brexit,' unprompted, at the moment she had thrashed three leaver candidates so hard they all withdrew. She didn't have to do that. Indeed she had a golden opportunity not to tie her hands, and instead start a conversation with the country about the next stage. She did it I think largely because she wanted to, as the fulfilment of an ambition she had always wanted but had decided was impossible - to get rid of the EU.
The opinion polls before the 2017 general election was called suggested that she was succeeding. If the election had broadly reflected those polls then the electoral motivation would have been obvious.0 -
Gove much less so than most of the Leavers. He is a Sovereigntist rather than anti immigration etc.williamglenn said:
He's an idealogical leaver because he's a British nationalist who believes in undiluted Westminster power, but he didn't need to debase the campaign in the way he did nor play such a prominent role. He enjoyed being a crowd-pleaser for once in his life a bit too much.Foxy said:
I don't think so. Gove is a loyalist, not a rebel. He let Dave move him from education, where he was making enemies. I reckon he is a genuine Leaver, not too worried by details.williamglenn said:
I think this is very close to the truth. If you read Tim Shipman's account, Boris Johnson genuinely agonised about which way to go and while there was undoubtedly some personal political calculation there, I think he succeeded in fooling himself that Brexit was on the right side of history and he was doing the right thing. In comparison Gove seems to have been the one who was motivated by personal vengeance and narcissism.archer101au said:
Gove will go down in history as the man who betrayed Brexit. His backstabbing of Boris led to a Remain PM and now his personal obsession with staying in the Cabinet is allowing May to sell out Brexit.williamglenn said:
His justification that we need to leave and we can sort out the details later totally lacks any sort of credibility or logic. There is zero chance that and future UK Government will ever re-address the withdrawal agreement. His position is totally self-serving.
I always believed that Boris was honest about supporting Brexit. But the more I see Gove the more clear it is that he just supported Brexit to get his own back on Cameron. He never expected to win. Apparently he didn't even stay up to see the results.
There is a special place in hell reserved for Michael Gove.0 -
I notice Clegg thinks the proposed deal is rubbish and hardline brexiters are right to oppose it. Is this something he genuinely believes or is the truth that he really wants a second referendum where the option to remain in is on the ballot paper - more likely perhaps if May's deal fails.0
-
He compared himself to Einstein being denounced by scientists in the pay of the Nazis and said people had had enough of 'experts'. He may not have stood next to a "Breaking Point" poster but he's just as culpable for dragging the campaign into the gutter.Foxy said:
Gove much less so than most of the Leavers. He is a Sovereigntist rather than anti immigration etc.williamglenn said:
He's an idealogical leaver because he's a British nationalist who believes in undiluted Westminster power, but he didn't need to debase the campaign in the way he did nor play such a prominent role. He enjoyed being a crowd-pleaser for once in his life a bit too much.Foxy said:
I don't think so. Gove is a loyalist, not a rebel. He let Dave move him from education, where he was making enemies. I reckon he is a genuine Leaver, not too worried by details.williamglenn said:
I think this is very close to the truth. If you read Tim Shipman's account, Boris Johnson genuinely agonised about which way to go and while there was undoubtedly some personal political calculation there, I think he succeeded in fooling himself that Brexit was on the right side of history and he was doing the right thing. In comparison Gove seems to have been the one who was motivated by personal vengeance and narcissism.archer101au said:
Gove will go down in history as the man who betrayed Brexit. His backstabbing of Boris led to a Remain PM and now his personal obsession with staying in the Cabinet is allowing May to sell out Brexit.williamglenn said:
His justification that we need to leave and we can sort out the details later totally lacks any sort of credibility or logic. There is zero chance that and future UK Government will ever re-address the withdrawal agreement. His position is totally self-serving.
I always believed that Boris was honest about supporting Brexit. But the more I see Gove the more clear it is that he just supported Brexit to get his own back on Cameron. He never expected to win. Apparently he didn't even stay up to see the results.
There is a special place in hell reserved for Michael Gove.0 -
F1: ha. Just as I'm adjusting to the 'new normal' of sod all markets going up, there are 36 to look at. Huzzah!0
-
Surely what is best for the UK is to take the best and most qualified who have the skills we need wherever they are from in the world - not prioritising 27 nations passport holders over everyone else's?CarlottaVance said:
Of course the problem is her Home Secretary apparently seems to think the deal is as above - she it seems has a different interpretation.0 -
There will be some odd alliances now, that's for sure, between those who hope this proposed deal can seem so bad we must remain, and those who think it is so bad we can get no deal instead.Norm said:I notice Clegg thinks the proposed deal is rubbish and hardline brexiters are right to oppose it. Is this something he genuinely believes or is the truth that he really wants a second referendum where the option to remain in is on the ballot paper - more likely perhaps if May's deal fails.
0 -
What's Sterling's goal scoring record for England ?OllyT said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not as well as Rashford would haveOblitusSumMe said:
Sterling played well. Maybe he should have scored, but he played well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have hit the jackpot with your tickets. Have a great time and every England player, apart from Sterling, were starsFoxy said:
Will be at that one, but who knows? Maguire is a star.another_richard said:
They were highly competent (Sterling excepted) against very limited opponents and they had no bad luck either.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Wow, that seemed much easier than I feared at 3pm.HYUFD said:Full time. England win and will go to their first world cup semi final in 28 years on Wednesday
But it looks like the France vs Belgium game should be the effective final.
England played better than I thought they were capable. Would love them to wallop Russia in the semi-final.
Clearly not a view shared by the England manager. Maybe you should take your Man United colour specs off.0 -
I'm in dreamland.0
-
I hear its coming home....according to my German mate in the pub during the game.0
-
And Edmund takes first set v Djokovic0
-
2 in 31 (I think)another_richard said:
What's Sterling's goal scoring record for England ?OllyT said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not as well as Rashford would haveOblitusSumMe said:
Sterling played well. Maybe he should have scored, but he played well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have hit the jackpot with your tickets. Have a great time and every England player, apart from Sterling, were starsFoxy said:
Will be at that one, but who knows? Maguire is a star.another_richard said:
They were highly competent (Sterling excepted) against very limited opponents and they had no bad luck either.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Wow, that seemed much easier than I feared at 3pm.HYUFD said:Full time. England win and will go to their first world cup semi final in 28 years on Wednesday
But it looks like the France vs Belgium game should be the effective final.
England played better than I thought they were capable. Would love them to wallop Russia in the semi-final.
Clearly not a view shared by the England manager. Maybe you should take your Man United colour specs off.
0 -
John Barnes did better at the rapping than at the football in the 1990 WC.david_herdson said:
Three Lions, obviously. No-one remembers anything about World In Motion apart from that it was good and that John Barnes does a rap.Sunil_Prasannan said:
No, on whether Three Lions or World in Motion is the better World Cup songnotme said:
Do,you suspect the referendum will be on whether we accept the deal or not or whether we leave or not?williamglenn said:
May is also in prime position to call a referendum when the time comes in which she can be neutral.felix said:
Me too - Corbyn will not be a happy bunny today. The ultras on both sides of the divide got a kicking from May and it shows.notme said:
“If they reject this offer in totality there is nothing further really to negotiate without abandoning almost all the Leave campaign promises so we start preparing for No Deal”
Leave campaign promises? No such thing. How can they promise anything? They weren’t a government. Or claiming to become one. The promise of the referendum was to leave the EU. That we are doing it. Two caveats though. May has tied herself with her own red lines. And stood for re election promising many of these in her manifesto. If for instance we opted for EEA single market. It isn’t the referendum, but the GE manifesto that’s been betrayed.
If EU won’t accept the free movement restrictions I can’t see anything that rivals membership of the eea as an alternative that causes minimum disruption. Either as a short term or long term decision.
This claim ”UK will also apply common rulebook to state aid; and maintain same standards for environment, climate change, social & employment and consumer protection” makes me sleep better at night. It will utterly prevent much of the ambitions of the more radical of Corbyn’s followers.
His football career dwindled away rapidly afterwards.0 -
You’re politically aware enough to know the the experts comment is not what he said but was deliberately manipulatedwilliamglenn said:
He compared himself to Einstein being denounced by scientists in the pay of the Nazis and said people had had enough of 'experts'. He may not have stood next to a "Breaking Point" poster but he's just as culpable for dragging the campaign into the gutter.Foxy said:
Gove much less so than most of the Leavers. He is a Sovereigntist rather than anti immigration etc.williamglenn said:
He's an idealogical leaver because he's a British nationalist who believes in undiluted Westminster power, but he didn't need to debase the campaign in the way he did nor play such a prominent role. He enjoyed being a crowd-pleaser for once in his life a bit too much.Foxy said:
I don't think so. Gove is a loyalist, not a rebel. He let Dave move him from education, where he was making enemies. I reckon he is a genuine Leaver, not too worried by details.williamglenn said:
I think this is very close to the truth. If you read Tim Shipman's account, Boris Johnson genuinely agonised about which way to go and while there was undoubtedly some personal political calculation there, I think he succeeded in fooling himself that Brexit was on the right side of history and he was doing the right thing. In comparison Gove seems to have been the one who was motivated by personal vengeance and narcissism.archer101au said:
Gove will go down in history as the man who betrayed Brexit. His backstabbing of Boris led to a Remain PM and now his personal obsession with staying in the Cabinet is allowing May to sell out Brexit.williamglenn said:
His justification that we need to leave and we can sort out the details later totally lacks any sort of credibility or logic. There is zero chance that and future UK Government will ever re-address the withdrawal agreement. His position is totally self-serving.
I always believed that Boris was honest about supporting Brexit. But the more I see Gove the more clear it is that he just supported Brexit to get his own back on Cameron. He never expected to win. Apparently he didn't even stay up to see the results.
There is a special place in hell reserved for Michael Gove.
And yet you still use it
Shameful0 -
Wonder what estate agent Gareth would make of this run by English national team?0
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Words are a politician's tool and he chose those words very deliberately.Charles said:
You’re politically aware enough to know the the experts comment is not what he said but was deliberately manipulatedwilliamglenn said:
He compared himself to Einstein being denounced by scientists in the pay of the Nazis and said people had had enough of 'experts'. He may not have stood next to a "Breaking Point" poster but he's just as culpable for dragging the campaign into the gutter.Foxy said:
Gove much less so than most of the Leavers. He is a Sovereigntist rather than anti immigration etc.williamglenn said:
He's an idealogical leaver because he's a British nationalist who believes in undiluted Westminster power, but he didn't need to debase the campaign in the way he did nor play such a prominent role. He enjoyed being a crowd-pleaser for once in his life a bit too much.Foxy said:
I don't think so. Gove is a loyalist, not a rebel. He let Dave move him from education, where he was making enemies. I reckon he is a genuine Leaver, not too worried by details.williamglenn said:
I think this is very close to the truth. If you read Tim Shipman's account, Boris Johnson genuinely agonised about which way to go and while there was undoubtedly some personal political calculation there, I think he succeeded in fooling himself that Brexit was on the right side of history and he was doing the right thing. In comparison Gove seems to have been the one who was motivated by personal vengeance and narcissism.archer101au said:
Gove will go down in history as the man who betrayed Brexit. His backstabbing of Boris led to a Remain PM and now his personal obsession with staying in the Cabinet is allowing May to sell out Brexit.williamglenn said:
His justification that we need to leave and we can sort out the details later totally lacks any sort of credibility or logic. There is zero chance that and future UK Government will ever re-address the withdrawal agreement. His position is totally self-serving.
I always believed that Boris was honest about supporting Brexit. But the more I see Gove the more clear it is that he just supported Brexit to get his own back on Cameron. He never expected to win. Apparently he didn't even stay up to see the results.
There is a special place in hell reserved for Michael Gove.
And yet you still use it
Shameful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGgiGtJk7MA0 -
2 in 42FrancisUrquhart said:
2 in 31 (I think)another_richard said:
What's Sterling's goal scoring record for England ?OllyT said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not as well as Rashford would haveOblitusSumMe said:
Sterling played well. Maybe he should have scored, but he played well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have hit the jackpot with your tickets. Have a great time and every England player, apart from Sterling, were starsFoxy said:
Will be at that one, but who knows? Maguire is a star.another_richard said:
They were highly competent (Sterling excepted) against very limited opponents and they had no bad luck either.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Wow, that seemed much easier than I feared at 3pm.HYUFD said:Full time. England win and will go to their first world cup semi final in 28 years on Wednesday
But it looks like the France vs Belgium game should be the effective final.
England played better than I thought they were capable. Would love them to wallop Russia in the semi-final.
Clearly not a view shared by the England manager. Maybe you should take your Man United colour specs off.
Has any England forward who has played ten times or more had a worse scoring record ?0 -
The reason Brexit failed is because the government and civil service ensured it failed because they are all pro-Remain and want to subvert democracy..OllyT said:
The Brexiteer list of who betrayed Brexit is likely to be nearly as long as the Brexiteer list of excuses as to why Brexit failedarcher101au said:
Gove will go down in history as the man who betrayed Brexit. His backstabbing of Boris led to a Remain PM and now his personal obsession with staying in the Cabinet is allowing May to sell out Brexit.williamglenn said:
His justification that we need to leave and we can sort out the details later totally lacks any sort of credibility or logic. There is zero chance that and future UK Government will ever re-address the withdrawal agreement. His position is totally self-serving.
I always believed that Boris was honest about supporting Brexit. But the more I see Gove the more clear it is that he just supported Brexit to get his own back on Cameron. He never expected to win. Apparently he didn't even stay up to see the results.
There is a special place in hell reserved for Michael Gove.
Another reason why revenge will be a dish best served cold when Brexiteers either sit on the hands and refuse to vote for Con - Or vote for Corbyn which is what I'll be doing at the next available opportunity.0 -
Williamglenn is an idealogical Remainer because he's an EU nationalist who believes in undiluted Brussels powerwilliamglenn said:
He's an idealogical leaver because he's a British nationalist who believes in undiluted Westminster power,Foxy said:
I don't think so. Gove is a loyalist, not a rebel. He let Dave move him from education, where he was making enemies. I reckon he is a genuine Leaver, not too worried by details.williamglenn said:
I think this is very close to the truth. If you read Tim Shipman's account, Boris Johnson genuinely agonised about which way to go and while there was undoubtedly some personal political calculation there, I think he succeeded in fooling himself that Brexit was on the right side of history and he was doing the right thing. In comparison Gove seems to have been the one who was motivated by personal vengeance and narcissism.archer101au said:
Gove will go down in history as the man who betrayed Brexit. His backstabbing of Boris led to a Remain PM and now his personal obsession with staying in the Cabinet is allowing May to sell out Brexit.williamglenn said:
His justification that we need to leave and we can sort out the details later totally lacks any sort of credibility or logic. There is zero chance that and future UK Government will ever re-address the withdrawal agreement. His position is totally self-serving.
I always believed that Boris was honest about supporting Brexit. But the more I see Gove the more clear it is that he just supported Brexit to get his own back on Cameron. He never expected to win. Apparently he didn't even stay up to see the results.
There is a special place in hell reserved for Michael Gove.0 -
The point being that experts are as partisan as you or I.williamglenn said:
He compared himself to Einstein being denounced by scientists in the pay of the Nazis and said people had had enough of 'experts'. He may not have stood next to a "Breaking Point" poster but he's just as culpable for dragging the campaign into the gutter.Foxy said:
Gove much less so than most of the Leavers. He is a Sovereigntist rather than anti immigration etc.williamglenn said:
He's an idealogical leaver because he's a British nationalist who believes in undiluted Westminster power, but he didn't need to debase the campaign in the way he did nor play such a prominent role. He enjoyed being a crowd-pleaser for once in his life a bit too much.Foxy said:
I don't think so. Gove is a loyalist, not a rebel. He let Dave move him from education, where he was making enemies. I reckon he is a genuine Leaver, not too worried by details.williamglenn said:
I think this is very close to the truth. If you read Tim Shipman's account, Boris Johnson genuinely agonised about which way to go and while there was undoubtedly some personal political calculation there, I think he succeeded in fooling himself that Brexit was on the right side of history and he was doing the right thing. In comparison Gove seems to have been the one who was motivated by personal vengeance and narcissism.archer101au said:
Gove will go down in history as the man who betrayed Brexit. His backstabbing of Boris led to a Remain PM and now his personal obsession with staying in the Cabinet is allowing May to sell out Brexit.williamglenn said:
His justification that we need to leave and we can sort out the details later totally lacks any sort of credibility or logic. There is zero chance that and future UK Government will ever re-address the withdrawal agreement. His position is totally self-serving.
I always believed that Boris was honest about supporting Brexit. But the more I see Gove the more clear it is that he just supported Brexit to get his own back on Cameron. He never expected to win. Apparently he didn't even stay up to see the results.
There is a special place in hell reserved for Michael Gove.0 -
His finishing was poor today, but he did well at Vardy's game of stretching defences via the ball over the top. Not as poor as Sweden's finishing though. That was truly awful.FrancisUrquhart said:
2 in 31 (I think)another_richard said:
What's Sterling's goal scoring record for England ?OllyT said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not as well as Rashford would haveOblitusSumMe said:
Sterling played well. Maybe he should have scored, but he played well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have hit the jackpot with your tickets. Have a great time and every England player, apart from Sterling, were starsFoxy said:
Will be at that one, but who knows? Maguire is a star.another_richard said:
They were highly competent (Sterling excepted) against very limited opponents and they had no bad luck either.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Wow, that seemed much easier than I feared at 3pm.HYUFD said:Full time. England win and will go to their first world cup semi final in 28 years on Wednesday
But it looks like the France vs Belgium game should be the effective final.
England played better than I thought they were capable. Would love them to wallop Russia in the semi-final.
Clearly not a view shared by the England manager. Maybe you should take your Man United colour specs off.
I see 538 is now giving us a 58% chance of making the final, 28% of winning it.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2018-world-cup-predictions/
Foxy is top of the FF league too 0 -
Using your right hand to cut off your left.GIN1138 said:
The reason Brexit failed is because the government and civil service ensured it failed because they are all pro-Remain and want to subvert democracy..OllyT said:
The Brexiteer list of who betrayed Brexit is likely to be nearly as long as the Brexiteer list of excuses as to why Brexit failedarcher101au said:
Gove will go down in history as the man who betrayed Brexit. His backstabbing of Boris led to a Remain PM and now his personal obsession with staying in the Cabinet is allowing May to sell out Brexit.williamglenn said:
His justification that we need to leave and we can sort out the details later totally lacks any sort of credibility or logic. There is zero chance that and future UK Government will ever re-address the withdrawal agreement. His position is totally self-serving.
I always believed that Boris was honest about supporting Brexit. But the more I see Gove the more clear it is that he just supported Brexit to get his own back on Cameron. He never expected to win. Apparently he didn't even stay up to see the results.
There is a special place in hell reserved for Michael Gove.
Another reason why revenge will be a dish best served cold when Brexiteers either sit on the hands and refuse to vote for Con - Or vote for Corbyn which is what I'll be doing at the next available opportunity.0 -
On and on
We will follow Edmund...0 -
Will the final be England v France.0
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To be honest I think his implication that democratic politics is like physics where he alone could be right was far more toxic than his 'experts' comment. He believes in the superiority of his own intellect without any justification.Sean_F said:
The point being that experts are as partisan as you or I.williamglenn said:
He compared himself to Einstein being denounced by scientists in the pay of the Nazis and said people had had enough of 'experts'. He may not have stood next to a "Breaking Point" poster but he's just as culpable for dragging the campaign into the gutter.Foxy said:
Gove much less so than most of the Leavers. He is a Sovereigntist rather than anti immigration etc.williamglenn said:
He's an idealogical leaver because he's a British nationalist who believes in undiluted Westminster power, but he didn't need to debase the campaign in the way he did nor play such a prominent role. He enjoyed being a crowd-pleaser for once in his life a bit too much.Foxy said:
I don't think so. Gove is a loyalist, not a rebel. He let Dave move him from education, where he was making enemies. I reckon he is a genuine Leaver, not too worried by details.williamglenn said:
I think this is very close to the truth. If you read Tim Shipman's account, Boris Johnson genuinely agonised about which way to go and while there was undoubtedly some personal political calculation there, I think he succeeded in fooling himself that Brexit was on the right side of history and he was doing the right thing. In comparison Gove seems to have been the one who was motivated by personal vengeance and narcissism.archer101au said:
Gove will go down in history as the man who betrayed Brexit. His backstabbing of Boris led to a Remain PM and now his personal obsession with staying in the Cabinet is allowing May to sell out Brexit.williamglenn said:
His justification that we need to leave and we can sort out the details later totally lacks any sort of credibility or logic. There is zero chance that and future UK Government will ever re-address the withdrawal agreement. His position is totally self-serving.
I always believed that Boris was honest about supporting Brexit. But the more I see Gove the more clear it is that he just supported Brexit to get his own back on Cameron. He never expected to win. Apparently he didn't even stay up to see the results.
There is a special place in hell reserved for Michael Gove.0 -
Mr. Gin, I'd urge you not to do that. Vote Labour by all means when they aren't led by a socialist who describes himself as a friend of Hamas, but to actively vote for Corbyn would be to seek to revenge one injury by inflicting one still worse upon the nation.0
