politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Survation Brexit anniversary poll has REMAIN 5% ahead
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Many people complain about British Rail, but my other half's grandmother remembers the system pre nationalisation and didn't think it was very good.TheScreamingEagles said:
But none of them actually took the entire railway system from the private sector into the public sector.HYUFD said:
All the Tory PMs from 1951 to 1974 kept the railways nationalised and refused to privatise them, indeed so did Thatcher and it was not until Major they were privatised.TheScreamingEagles said:
Which Tory PM nationalised the railways? Name names.HYUFD said:
The airlines, aerospace, the railways, the electricity and gas and water industries, the post office and telecommunications were all nationalised under Tory PMs from Churchill to Heath. I may have supported Thatcher's privatisations but you can be a Tory and oppose free trade, it is much more difficult to be a Tory and a republican you may take note. Support for free trade is one of the defining features of a liberal not a conservativeTheScreamingEagles said:Arguing for nationalisation of companies really ought to get you kicked out of the Tory party.
Honestly if I wanted to be a member of a party advocating nationalisation I’d have joined the Labour Party.
Free markets or death.
As being for pro free trade and support therein, it is what being a Tory is all about.
Being pro free trade and pro free market is a common trait of Tories but not as definitive as being a monarchist say0 -
I'd see it as an important part of it, but not the only part.TheScreamingEagles said:
Which Tory PM nationalised the railways? Name names.HYUFD said:
The airlines, aerospace, the railways, the electricity and gas and water industries, the post office and telecommunications were all nationalised under Tory PMs from Churchill to Heath. I may have supported Thatcher's privatisations but you can be a Tory and oppose free trade, it is much more difficult to be a Tory and a republican you may take note. Support for free trade is one of the defining features of a liberal not a conservativeTheScreamingEagles said:Arguing for nationalisation of companies really ought to get you kicked out of the Tory party.
Honestly if I wanted to be a member of a party advocating nationalisation I’d have joined the Labour Party.
Free markets or death.
As being for pro free trade and support therein, it is what being a Tory is all about.
However, many Conservatives have been hostile to free trade.
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Greece employment data only starts in 2004, so the numbers are not comparable, nevertheless they show a shift from 4.3m to 3.8m, a 14% fall in employment.rcs1000 said:
Germany has gone from 39m to 45m, a 15% increase.rcs1000 said:
The UK has gone from 27m to 32m, an 18% jump.rcs1000 said:
Ireland started the Euro with 1.57m in employment, and is now at 2.2m. I doubt many other countries in the world have managed a 33% increase.rcs1000 said:
I think the easy was to solve that question would be to ask which countries in the Eurozone have seen an absolute increase in the number of people in employment* since its creation on 1/1/99.ralphmalph said:So the real question is which other countries have benefited?
I would suggest maybe Ireland and Czech as the only 2.
Care to make a guess?
* You could also use the proportion of people in employment.
The US has gone from 138m to 155m, a 12% increase.
Spain has gone from 14m to 18.9m, a 35% jump - and the new record.
Portugal has gone from 4.8m to errr... 4.8m, which is flat employment.0 -
Putting the existing debt on the balance sheet gets NR a better rate of interest. But Phil isn't going to let NR borrow money now it goes down against his name!Pulpstar said:
Why can't Network Rail borrow against their own assets any more ? Seems an odd decision from I presume the coalition Gov't to end that in 2014.tlg86 said:
Up until 2014 Network Rail were able to borrow money against their own assets. Now they are queuing up for money from the government just like everyone else.TheScreamingEagles said:
Wasn’t that just a reclassification exercise, Blair did the deed, shamefully using the invasion of Afghanistan to bury bad news?tlg86 said:
Technically Network Rail was brought back into public ownership under David Cameron.TheScreamingEagles said:
Not the whole network, just one TOC that returned the franchise.tlg86 said:
Theresa May is nationalising one on Saturday night.TheScreamingEagles said:
Which Tory PM nationalised the railways? Name names.HYUFD said:
The airlines, aerospace, the railways, the electricity and gas and water industries, the post office and telecommunications were all nationalised under Tory PMs from Churchill to Heath. I may have supported Thatcher's privatisations but you can be a Tory and oppose free trade, it is much more difficult to be a Tory and a republican you may take note. Support for free trade is one of the defining features of a liberal not a conservativeTheScreamingEagles said:Arguing for nationalisation of companies really ought to get you kicked out of the Tory party.
Honestly if I wanted to be a member of a party advocating nationalisation I’d have joined the Labour Party.
Free markets or death.
As being for pro free trade and support therein, it is what being a Tory is all about.
And given the disaster that was RailTrack, I don't think Labour had much choice.0 -
What legal argument is there against the referendum result?Scott_P said:
That is at best debatable, and may yet end up in courtNemtynakht said:Which it wasn't.
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It's a poor system that lets the accounting niceties drive the decision making, very Gordon Brownesque.tlg86 said:
Putting the existing debt on the balance sheet gets NR a better rate of interest. But Phil isn't going to let NR borrow money now it goes down against his name!Pulpstar said:
Why can't Network Rail borrow against their own assets any more ? Seems an odd decision from I presume the coalition Gov't to end that in 2014.tlg86 said:
Up until 2014 Network Rail were able to borrow money against their own assets. Now they are queuing up for money from the government just like everyone else.TheScreamingEagles said:
Wasn’t that just a reclassification exercise, Blair did the deed, shamefully using the invasion of Afghanistan to bury bad news?tlg86 said:
Technically Network Rail was brought back into public ownership under David Cameron.TheScreamingEagles said:
Not the whole network, just one TOC that returned the franchise.tlg86 said:
Theresa May is nationalising one on Saturday night.TheScreamingEagles said:
Which Tory PM nationalised the railways? Name names.HYUFD said:
The airlines, aerospace, the railways, the electricity and gas and water industries, the post office and telecommunications were all nationalised under Tory PMs from Churchill to Heath. I may have supported Thatcher's privatisations but you can be a Tory and oppose free trade, it is much more difficult to be a Tory and a republican you may take note. Support for free trade is one of the defining features of a liberal not a conservativeTheScreamingEagles said:Arguing for nationalisation of companies really ought to get you kicked out of the Tory party.
Honestly if I wanted to be a member of a party advocating nationalisation I’d have joined the Labour Party.
Free markets or death.
As being for pro free trade and support therein, it is what being a Tory is all about.
And given the disaster that was RailTrack, I don't think Labour had much choice.0 -
I was reading that 500,000 Greeks had emigrated to other European countries, which is explained by that figure.rcs1000 said:
Greece employment data only starts in 2004, so the numbers are not comparable, nevertheless they show a shift from 4.3m to 3.8m, a 14% fall in employment.rcs1000 said:
Germany has gone from 39m to 45m, a 15% increase.rcs1000 said:
The UK has gone from 27m to 32m, an 18% jump.rcs1000 said:
Ireland started the Euro with 1.57m in employment, and is now at 2.2m. I doubt many other countries in the world have managed a 33% increase.rcs1000 said:
I think the easy was to solve that question would be to ask which countries in the Eurozone have seen an absolute increase in the number of people in employment* since its creation on 1/1/99.ralphmalph said:So the real question is which other countries have benefited?
I would suggest maybe Ireland and Czech as the only 2.
Care to make a guess?
* You could also use the proportion of people in employment.
The US has gone from 138m to 155m, a 12% increase.
Spain has gone from 14m to 18.9m, a 35% jump - and the new record.
Portugal has gone from 4.8m to errr... 4.8m, which is flat employment.
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Italy data only starts in 2004 as well, and has seen employment rise from 22.0m to 23.2m, a 5% increase.rcs1000 said:
Greece employment data only starts in 2004, so the numbers are not comparable, nevertheless they show a shift from 4.3m to 3.8m, a 14% fall in employment.rcs1000 said:
Germany has gone from 39m to 45m, a 15% increase.rcs1000 said:
The UK has gone from 27m to 32m, an 18% jump.rcs1000 said:
Ireland started the Euro with 1.57m in employment, and is now at 2.2m. I doubt many other countries in the world have managed a 33% increase.rcs1000 said:
I think the easy was to solve that question would be to ask which countries in the Eurozone have seen an absolute increase in the number of people in employment* since its creation on 1/1/99.ralphmalph said:So the real question is which other countries have benefited?
I would suggest maybe Ireland and Czech as the only 2.
Care to make a guess?
* You could also use the proportion of people in employment.
The US has gone from 138m to 155m, a 12% increase.
Spain has gone from 14m to 18.9m, a 35% jump - and the new record.
Portugal has gone from 4.8m to errr... 4.8m, which is flat employment.
The Netherlands data only starts in 2000, and has employment increasing from 6.9m to 8.8m, a 28% move.
So, in summary: Germany has clearly benefited - but so have Ireland, Spain, and the Netherlands, all of which have seen significantly stronger employment growth than (for example) the US.
Greece has clearly lost out badly, while Portugal hasn't done too well either.0 -
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I find it fascinating that everyone focuses on Germany, but the Netherlands, Ireland, Spain, and Belgium (of the countries I've checked on Trading Economics) have all done substantially better in terms of employment growth.Sean_F said:
I was reading that 500,000 Greeks had emigrated to other European countries, which is explained by that figure.rcs1000 said:
Greece employment data only starts in 2004, so the numbers are not comparable, nevertheless they show a shift from 4.3m to 3.8m, a 14% fall in employment.rcs1000 said:
Germany has gone from 39m to 45m, a 15% increase.rcs1000 said:
The UK has gone from 27m to 32m, an 18% jump.rcs1000 said:
Ireland started the Euro with 1.57m in employment, and is now at 2.2m. I doubt many other countries in the world have managed a 33% increase.rcs1000 said:
I think the easy was to solve that question would be to ask which countries in the Eurozone have seen an absolute increase in the number of people in employment* since its creation on 1/1/99.ralphmalph said:So the real question is which other countries have benefited?
I would suggest maybe Ireland and Czech as the only 2.
Care to make a guess?
* You could also use the proportion of people in employment.
The US has gone from 138m to 155m, a 12% increase.
Spain has gone from 14m to 18.9m, a 35% jump - and the new record.
Portugal has gone from 4.8m to errr... 4.8m, which is flat employment.0 -
You could also look at unemployed people.rcs1000 said:
The UK has gone from 27m to 32m, an 18% jump.rcs1000 said:
Ireland started the Euro with 1.57m in employment, and is now at 2.2m. I doubt many other countries in the world have managed a 33% increase.rcs1000 said:
I think the easy was to solve that question would be to ask which countries in the Eurozone have seen an absolute increase in the number of people in employment* since its creation on 1/1/99.ralphmalph said:So the real question is which other countries have benefited?
I would suggest maybe Ireland and Czech as the only 2.
Care to make a guess?
* You could also use the proportion of people in employment.
The US has gone from 138m to 155m, a 12% increase.
Spain 1.6m to 3.3m
France 3m to 3,5m
Portugal 300K to 380K0 -
Neymar Jnr = Overrated donkey.
A Fortnum& Mason Jason Lee.0 -
Lol...what does that make messi?TheScreamingEagles said:Neymar Jnr = Overrated donkey.
A Fortnum& Mason Jason Lee.0 -
I find employed people to be a generally more useful measure, personally. Why? Because if you're a construction worker with a stay at home wife and a kid in Malaga, then if you lose your job, then you both sign on. That's why unemployment rose quicker in Spain than employment fell.ralphmalph said:
You could also look at unemployed people.rcs1000 said:
The UK has gone from 27m to 32m, an 18% jump.rcs1000 said:
Ireland started the Euro with 1.57m in employment, and is now at 2.2m. I doubt many other countries in the world have managed a 33% increase.rcs1000 said:
I think the easy was to solve that question would be to ask which countries in the Eurozone have seen an absolute increase in the number of people in employment* since its creation on 1/1/99.ralphmalph said:So the real question is which other countries have benefited?
I would suggest maybe Ireland and Czech as the only 2.
Care to make a guess?
* You could also use the proportion of people in employment.
The US has gone from 138m to 155m, a 12% increase.
Spain 1.6m to 3.3m
France 3m to 3,5m
Portugal 300K to 380K
By comparison, in the US, the benefits system won't pay out to someone who didn't previously have a job, and - compared to Europe - payments are small. This means that the number of people on food stamps disconnected from the employment rate.0 -
Food stamp eligibility is also a state matter. In some of the Deep South, it's near impossible to get welfare.rcs1000 said:
I find employed people to be a generally more useful measure, personally. Why? Because if you're a construction worker with a stay at home wife and a kid in Malaga, then if you lose your job, then you both sign on. That's why unemployment rose quicker in Spain than employment fell.ralphmalph said:
You could also look at unemployed people.rcs1000 said:
The UK has gone from 27m to 32m, an 18% jump.rcs1000 said:
Ireland started the Euro with 1.57m in employment, and is now at 2.2m. I doubt many other countries in the world have managed a 33% increase.rcs1000 said:
I think the easy was to solve that question would be to ask which countries in the Eurozone have seen an absolute increase in the number of people in employment* since its creation on 1/1/99.ralphmalph said:So the real question is which other countries have benefited?
I would suggest maybe Ireland and Czech as the only 2.
Care to make a guess?
* You could also use the proportion of people in employment.
The US has gone from 138m to 155m, a 12% increase.
Spain 1.6m to 3.3m
France 3m to 3,5m
Portugal 300K to 380K
By comparison, in the US, the benefits system won't pay out to someone who didn't previously have a job, and - compared to Europe - payments are small. This means that the number of people on food stamps disconnected from the employment rate.0 -
Great reversal by the referee.
Neymar Jnr is still a donkey.0 -
What a dive....0
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VAR - greatest thing since sliced bread...0
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Also what is interesting about Germany is that they have done it with very little population growth. D pop 01/01/1999 82m - pop now 82.7m.rcs1000 said:
I find it fascinating that everyone focuses on Germany, but the Netherlands, Ireland, Spain, and Belgium (of the countries I've checked on Trading Economics) have all done substantially better in terms of employment growth.Sean_F said:
I was reading that 500,000 Greeks had emigrated to other European countries, which is explained by that figure.rcs1000 said:
Greece employment data only starts in 2004, so the numbers are not comparable, nevertheless they show a shift from 4.3m to 3.8m, a 14% fall in employment.rcs1000 said:
Germany has gone from 39m to 45m, a 15% increase.rcs1000 said:
The UK has gone from 27m to 32m, an 18% jump.rcs1000 said:
Ireland started the Euro with 1.57m in employment, and is now at 2.2m. I doubt many other countries in the world have managed a 33% increase.rcs1000 said:
I think the easy was to solve that question would be to ask which countries in the Eurozone have seen an absolute increase in the number of people in employment* since its creation on 1/1/99.ralphmalph said:So the real question is which other countries have benefited?
I would suggest maybe Ireland and Czech as the only 2.
Care to make a guess?
* You could also use the proportion of people in employment.
The US has gone from 138m to 155m, a 12% increase.
Spain has gone from 14m to 18.9m, a 35% jump - and the new record.
Portugal has gone from 4.8m to errr... 4.8m, which is flat employment.0 -
A major milestone for VAR I think that.0
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There's a fascinating disconnection in the US between the employment and the unemployment rate. The US's employment rate is down almost 4% since the beginning of 1999, even though "unemployment" is at an all time low. And the reason is discouraged workers: no point in registering as unemployed if there's no money in it.Elliot said:
Food stamp eligibility is also a state matter. In some of the Deep South, it's near impossible to get welfare.rcs1000 said:
I find employed people to be a generally more useful measure, personally. Why? Because if you're a construction worker with a stay at home wife and a kid in Malaga, then if you lose your job, then you both sign on. That's why unemployment rose quicker in Spain than employment fell.ralphmalph said:
You could also look at unemployed people.rcs1000 said:
The UK has gone from 27m to 32m, an 18% jump.rcs1000 said:
Ireland started the Euro with 1.57m in employment, and is now at 2.2m. I doubt many other countries in the world have managed a 33% increase.rcs1000 said:
I think the easy was to solve that question would be to ask which countries in the Eurozone have seen an absolute increase in the number of people in employment* since its creation on 1/1/99.ralphmalph said:So the real question is which other countries have benefited?
I would suggest maybe Ireland and Czech as the only 2.
Care to make a guess?
* You could also use the proportion of people in employment.
The US has gone from 138m to 155m, a 12% increase.
Spain 1.6m to 3.3m
France 3m to 3,5m
Portugal 300K to 380K
By comparison, in the US, the benefits system won't pay out to someone who didn't previously have a job, and - compared to Europe - payments are small. This means that the number of people on food stamps disconnected from the employment rate.0 -
Brazil still second-favourites for the World Cup on the Betfair exchange, at 5/1. I don't really see it myself. Value elsewhere, surely? Belgium, at 9/1, perhaps?
The current market looks to have a few prices based more on history than current form (all prices based on back rather than lay):
5.6 Spain
6.0 Brazil
9.2 France
9.4 Germany
10.0 belgium
12.5 England
17.0 Croatia
20.0 Portugal
32.0 uruguay0 -
If a Leave Brexit is implemented (exit from SM, CU and ECJ, in name and in practice) then Leavers rightfully own it. If a Remain Brexit (vassal statehood, open immigration) is implemented, Remainers own it.Scott_P said:0 -
How about we all disown it together?Elliot said:If a Leave Brexit is implemented (exit from SM, CU and ECJ, in name and in practice) then Leavers rightfully own it. If a Remain Brexit (vassal statehood, open immigration) is implemented, Remainers own it.
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You have to adjust these statistics for population surely. Although interesting the UK has outperformed Germany.rcs1000 said:
Italy data only starts in 2004 as well, and has seen employment rise from 22.0m to 23.2m, a 5% increase.rcs1000 said:
Greece employment data only starts in 2004, so the numbers are not comparable, nevertheless they show a shift from 4.3m to 3.8m, a 14% fall in employment.rcs1000 said:
Germany has gone from 39m to 45m, a 15% increase.rcs1000 said:
The UK has gone from 27m to 32m, an 18% jump.rcs1000 said:
Ireland started the Euro with 1.57m in employment, and is now at 2.2m. I doubt many other countries in the world have managed a 33% increase.rcs1000 said:
I think the easy was to solve that question would be to ask which countries in the Eurozone have seen an absolute increase in the number of people in employment* since its creation on 1/1/99.ralphmalph said:So the real question is which other countries have benefited?
I would suggest maybe Ireland and Czech as the only 2.
Care to make a guess?
* You could also use the proportion of people in employment.
The US has gone from 138m to 155m, a 12% increase.
Spain has gone from 14m to 18.9m, a 35% jump - and the new record.
Portugal has gone from 4.8m to errr... 4.8m, which is flat employment.
The Netherlands data only starts in 2000, and has employment increasing from 6.9m to 8.8m, a 28% move.
So, in summary: Germany has clearly benefited - but so have Ireland, Spain, and the Netherlands, all of which have seen significantly stronger employment growth than (for example) the US.
Greece has clearly lost out badly, while Portugal hasn't done too well either.0 -
Ha. And as soon as I post that, they move out to 6.8 (though the revoked penalty might have had something to do with that).david_herdson said:Brazil still second-favourites for the World Cup on the Betfair exchange, at 5/1. I don't really see it myself. Value elsewhere, surely? Belgium, at 9/1, perhaps?
The current market looks to have a few prices based more on history than current form (all prices based on back rather than lay):
5.6 Spain
6.0 Brazil
9.2 France
9.4 Germany
10.0 belgium
12.5 England
17.0 Croatia
20.0 Portugal
32.0 uruguay0 -
Free trade and free markets have been more liberal/neoliberal things throughout history than conservative ones.Sean_F said:
I'd see it as an important part of it, but not the only part.TheScreamingEagles said:
Which Tory PM nationalised the railways? Name names.HYUFD said:
The airlines, aerospace, the railways, the electricity and gas and water industries, the post office and telecommunications were all nationalised under Tory PMs from Churchill to Heath. I may have supported Thatcher's privatisations but you can be a Tory and oppose free trade, it is much more difficult to be a Tory and a republican you may take note. Support for free trade is one of the defining features of a liberal not a conservativeTheScreamingEagles said:Arguing for nationalisation of companies really ought to get you kicked out of the Tory party.
Honestly if I wanted to be a member of a party advocating nationalisation I’d have joined the Labour Party.
Free markets or death.
As being for pro free trade and support therein, it is what being a Tory is all about.
However, many Conservatives have been hostile to free trade.
Though laissez faire zealotry is why I could never be at home in the Tory party. I would rather judge the evidence on a case by case basis.0 -
Given England recently beat Costa Rica with ease, surely this must mean we are now favourites....0
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Fortunately, the World Bank has done that for us: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.EMP.TOTL.SP.ZS?view=chartElliot said:
You have to adjust these statistics for population surely. Although interesting the UK has outperformed Germany.rcs1000 said:
Italy data only starts in 2004 as well, and has seen employment rise from 22.0m to 23.2m, a 5% increase.rcs1000 said:
Greece employment data only starts in 2004, so the numbers are not comparable, nevertheless they show a shift from 4.3m to 3.8m, a 14% fall in employment.rcs1000 said:
Germany has gone from 39m to 45m, a 15% increase.rcs1000 said:
The UK has gone from 27m to 32m, an 18% jump.rcs1000 said:
Ireland started the Euro with 1.57m in employment, and is now at 2.2m. I doubt many other countries in the world have managed a 33% increase.rcs1000 said:
I think the easy was to solve that question would be to ask which countries in the Eurozone have seen an absolute increase in the number of people in employment* since its creation on 1/1/99.ralphmalph said:So the real question is which other countries have benefited?
I would suggest maybe Ireland and Czech as the only 2.
Care to make a guess?
* You could also use the proportion of people in employment.
The US has gone from 138m to 155m, a 12% increase.
Spain has gone from 14m to 18.9m, a 35% jump - and the new record.
Portugal has gone from 4.8m to errr... 4.8m, which is flat employment.
The Netherlands data only starts in 2000, and has employment increasing from 6.9m to 8.8m, a 28% move.
So, in summary: Germany has clearly benefited - but so have Ireland, Spain, and the Netherlands, all of which have seen significantly stronger employment growth than (for example) the US.
Greece has clearly lost out badly, while Portugal hasn't done too well either.
This is the proportion of people aged 15+ in employment. Now, it's important to remember that the percentage of retired people (i.e. 65+) is in increasing almost everywhere, so that the employment proportion should be in decline in most countries.
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The notion that England are a more likely winner than Croatia or Portugal is laughable. English odds reflecting the heart over head betting market here.david_herdson said:Brazil still second-favourites for the World Cup on the Betfair exchange, at 5/1. I don't really see it myself. Value elsewhere, surely? Belgium, at 9/1, perhaps?
The current market looks to have a few prices based more on history than current form (all prices based on back rather than lay):
5.6 Spain
6.0 Brazil
9.2 France
9.4 Germany
10.0 belgium
12.5 England
17.0 Croatia
20.0 Portugal
32.0 uruguay0 -
Wait for the over reaction if England beat Panama and manage a draw against Belgium.SandyRentool said:
The notion that England are a more likely winner than Croatia or Portugal is laughable. English odds reflecting the heart over head betting market here.david_herdson said:Brazil still second-favourites for the World Cup on the Betfair exchange, at 5/1. I don't really see it myself. Value elsewhere, surely? Belgium, at 9/1, perhaps?
The current market looks to have a few prices based more on history than current form (all prices based on back rather than lay):
5.6 Spain
6.0 Brazil
9.2 France
9.4 Germany
10.0 belgium
12.5 England
17.0 Croatia
20.0 Portugal
32.0 uruguay0 -
Remainers have lobbied and lobbied for a BINO ever since the result. You do it on a daily basis. You whinge and cry to be listened to, and for Leavers to be ignored. If you now get your way, you will have won the battle and you will need to suck it up.Scott_P said:
QEDElliot said:If a Remain Brexit is implemented, Remainers own it.
There is no such thing as a "Remain Brexit"
You won. Suck it up.0 -
So, change since the beginning of the Euro (31/12/98):rcs1000 said:
Fortunately, the World Bank has done that for us: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.EMP.TOTL.SP.ZS?view=chartElliot said:
You have to adjust these statistics for population surely. Although interesting the UK has outperformed Germany.rcs1000 said:
Italy data only starts in 2004 as well, and has seen employment rise from 22.0m to 23.2m, a 5% increase.rcs1000 said:
Greece employment data only starts in 2004, so the numbers are not comparable, nevertheless they show a shift from 4.3m to 3.8m, a 14% fall in employment.rcs1000 said:
Germany has gone from 39m to 45m, a 15% increase.rcs1000 said:
The UK has gone from 27m to 32m, an 18% jump.rcs1000 said:
Ireland started the Euro with 1.57m in employment, and is now at 2.2m. I doubt many other countries in the world have managed a 33% increase.rcs1000 said:
I think the easy was to solve that question would be to ask which countries in the Eurozone have seen an absolute increase in the number of people in employment* since its creation on 1/1/99.ralphmalph said:So the real question is which other countries have benefited?
I would suggest maybe Ireland and Czech as the only 2.
Care to make a guess?
* You could also use the proportion of people in employment.
The US has gone from 138m to 155m, a 12% increase.
Spain has gone from 14m to 18.9m, a 35% jump - and the new record.
Portugal has gone from 4.8m to errr... 4.8m, which is flat employment.
The Netherlands data only starts in 2000, and has employment increasing from 6.9m to 8.8m, a 28% move.
So, in summary: Germany has clearly benefited - but so have Ireland, Spain, and the Netherlands, all of which have seen significantly stronger employment growth than (for example) the US.
Greece has clearly lost out badly, while Portugal hasn't done too well either.
This is the proportion of people aged 15+ in employment. Now, it's important to remember that the percentage of retired people (i.e. 65+) is in increasing almost everywhere, so that the employment proportion should be in decline in most countries.
Belgium +3
Denmark -3
Estonia +4
Finland +1
France +1
Germany +6 (!)
Greece -5 (!)
Ireland +3
Italy +1
Latvia +5
Luxembourg +5
Netherlands +2
Norway -2
Portugal -5
Spain +6 (!)
Sweden +3
UK +3
USA -4 (!)
Not, I admit, what I would have expected.0 -
Brazil get there in the end.0
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Leave Neymar out the team next match......FrancisUrquhart said:Brazil get there in the end.
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Very interesting. Thank you.rcs1000 said:
So, change since the beginning of the Euro (1/1/98):rcs1000 said:
Fortunately, the World Bank has done that for us: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.EMP.TOTL.SP.ZS?view=chartElliot said:
You have to adjust these statistics for population surely. Although interesting the UK has outperformed Germany.rcs1000 said:
Italy data only starts in 2004 as well, and has seen employment rise from 22.0m to 23.2m, a 5% increase.rcs1000 said:
Greece employment data only starts in 2004, so the numbers are not comparable, nevertheless they show a shift from 4.3m to 3.8m, a 14% fall in employment.rcs1000 said:
Germany has gone from 39m to 45m, a 15% increase.rcs1000 said:
The UK has gone from 27m to 32m, an 18% jump.rcs1000 said:
Ireland started the Euro with 1.57m in employment, and is now at 2.2m. I doubt many other countries in the world have managed a 33% increase.rcs1000 said:
I think the easy was to solve that question would be to ask which countries in the Eurozone have seen an absolute increase in the number of people in employment* since its creation on 1/1/99.ralphmalph said:So the real question is which other countries have benefited?
I would suggest maybe Ireland and Czech as the only 2.
Care to make a guess?
* You could also use the proportion of people in employment.
The US has gone from 138m to 155m, a 12% increase.
Spain has gone from 14m to 18.9m, a 35% jump - and the new record.
Portugal has gone from 4.8m to errr... 4.8m, which is flat employment.
The Netherlands data only starts in 2000, and has employment increasing from 6.9m to 8.8m, a 28% move.
So, in summary: Germany has clearly benefited - but so have Ireland, Spain, and the Netherlands, all of which have seen significantly stronger employment growth than (for example) the US.
Greece has clearly lost out badly, while Portugal hasn't done too well either.
This is the proportion of people aged 15+ in employment. Now, it's important to remember that the percentage of retired people (i.e. 65+) is in increasing almost everywhere, so that the employment proportion should be in decline in most countries.
Belgium +3
Denmark -3
Estonia +4
Finland +1
France +1
Germany +6 (!)
Greece -5 (!)
Ireland +3
Italy +1
Latvia +5
Luxembourg +5
Netherlands +2
Norway -2
Portugal -5
Spain +6 (!)
Sweden +3
UK +3
USA -4 (!)
Not, I admit, what I would have expected.0 -
ROFLMAOElliot said:Remainers have lobbied and lobbied for a BINO ever since the result. You do it on a daily basis. You whinge and cry to be listened to, and for Leavers to be ignored. If you now get your way, you will have won the battle and you will need to suck it up.
Never knew I had such power...0 -
But it's running at half the level it was in 2014 and 2018 will surely see a further drop given Brexit uncertainty.Sean_F said:
2016 is the obvious outlier, due as you say, to takeovers.anothernick said:
FDI in the UK was $45bn in 2014, $33bn in 2015, $250bn in 2016 .....and $20bn in 2017. 2016 was distorted by some very large takeovers but even so there has been a big drop in foreign investment in the UK since the referendum. And it's not hard to see why.ralphmalph said:
What about economic activity moving to the UK?anothernick said:
Quite. Airbus has said publicly what just about every corporate boss aside from James Dyson is saying privately. It's probably too late already to stop a significant movement of economic activity out of the UK over the next couple of years.Recidivist said:
Sort of, but I am seeing smaller scale Airbus type decisions. If you get headlines reinforcing what you are experiencing the impact is much greater.Dura_Ace said:
The Airbus thing is containable while it's one company, albeit an important. If one or more of the car manufacturers weighs in with similar sentiments then it will be leaky anus time in Gammonstan.Scott_P said:
Overall, investment was up 4% in 2017, which is quite reasonable.0 -
I wonder if there should be an emigration adjustment. The Baltics are presumably flattered by population declining not for fertility reasons but because people had to go abroad to work.Elliot said:
Very interesting. Thank you.rcs1000 said:
So, change since the beginning of the Euro (1/1/98):rcs1000 said:
Fortunately, the World Bank has done that for us: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.EMP.TOTL.SP.ZS?view=chartElliot said:
You have to adjust these statistics for population surely. Although interesting the UK has outperformed Germany.rcs1000 said:
.rcs1000 said:
flat employment.rcs1000 said:
Germany has gone from 39m to 45m, a 15% increase.rcs1000 said:
The UK has gone from 27m to 32m, an 18% jump.rcs1000 said:
Ireland started the Euro with 1.57m in employment, and is now at 2.2m. I doubt many other countries in the world have managed a 33% increase.rcs1000 said:
I think the easy was to solve that question would be to ask which countries in the Eurozone have seen an absolute increase in the number of people in employment* since its creation on 1/1/99.ralphmalph said:So the real question is which other countries have benefited?
I would suggest maybe Ireland and Czech as the only 2.
Care to make a guess?
* You could also use the proportion of people in employment.
The US has gone from 138m to 155m, a 12% increase.
Spain has gone from 14m to 18.9m, a 35% jump - and the new record.
The Netherlands data only starts in 2000, and has employment increasing from 6.9m to 8.8m, a 28% move.
So, in summary: Germany has clearly benefited - but so have Ireland, Spain, and the Netherlands, all of which have seen significantly stronger employment growth than (for example) the US.
Greece has clearly lost out badly, while Portugal hasn't done too well either.
This is the proportion of people aged 15+ in employment. Now, it's important to remember that the percentage of retired people (i.e. 65+) is in increasing almost everywhere, so that the employment proportion should be in decline in most countries.
Belgium +3
Denmark -3
Estonia +4
Finland +1
France +1
Germany +6 (!)
Greece -5 (!)
Ireland +3
Italy +1
Latvia +5
Luxembourg +5
Netherlands +2
Norway -2
Portugal -5
Spain +6 (!)
Sweden +3
UK +3
USA -4 (!)
Not, I admit, what I would have expected.0 -
Brexit is like communism - attractive in theory but impossible to implement in the way its adherents promised.Scott_P said:0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
Shame Brazil scored late on.
F1: apparently, Leclerc is likely to go to Ferrari.0 -
According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Estonia), Estonia's population has risen between 2011 (1.294m) and 2018 (1.319m), although I would expect that Latvia and Lithuania are still seeing declines.Elliot said:I wonder if there should be an emigration adjustment. The Baltics are presumably flattered by population declining not for fertility reasons but because people had to go abroad to work.
0 -
I don’t know how much itv is paying Patrice evra, but it is way too much.0
-
Drunken Finns who've come over on the ferry and are found lying in a gutter must get counted in the census figures.rcs1000 said:
According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Estonia), Estonia's population has risen between 2011 (1.294m) and 2018 (1.319m), although I would expect that Latvia and Lithuania are still seeing declines.Elliot said:I wonder if there should be an emigration adjustment. The Baltics are presumably flattered by population declining not for fertility reasons but because people had to go abroad to work.
0 -
You think Brexit is attractive? Could have fooled me!anothernick said:
Brexit is like communism - attractive in theory but impossible to implement in the way its adherents promised.Scott_P said:0 -
Interestingly, the really big declines in Estonia's population took place before they joined the EU. Their population went from 1.566m in 1989 to 1.37m in 2000.rcs1000 said:
According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Estonia), Estonia's population has risen between 2011 (1.294m) and 2018 (1.319m), although I would expect that Latvia and Lithuania are still seeing declines.Elliot said:I wonder if there should be an emigration adjustment. The Baltics are presumably flattered by population declining not for fertility reasons but because people had to go abroad to work.
0 -
Latvia's population has declined by about 7-8,000 people a year in every year since 2008, although that's still an improvement on 10-20,000/year numbers recorded in the 1990s.rcs1000 said:
Interestingly, the really big declines in Estonia's population took place before they joined the EU. Their population went from 1.566m in 1989 to 1.37m in 2000.rcs1000 said:
According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Estonia), Estonia's population has risen between 2011 (1.294m) and 2018 (1.319m), although I would expect that Latvia and Lithuania are still seeing declines.Elliot said:I wonder if there should be an emigration adjustment. The Baltics are presumably flattered by population declining not for fertility reasons but because people had to go abroad to work.
0 -
Since it joined the EU Latvia's population has dropped by 20%. I suspect that accounts for the rise in the percentage of Latvians in employment.rcs1000 said:
So, change since the beginning of the Euro (31/12/98):rcs1000 said:
Fortunately, the World Bank has done that for us: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.EMP.TOTL.SP.ZS?view=chartElliot said:
You have to adjust these statistics for population surely. Although interesting the UK has outperformed Germany.rcs1000 said:
Italy data only starts in 2004 as well, and has seen employment rise from 22.0m to 23.2m, a 5% increase.rcs1000 said:
Greece employment data only starts in 2004, so the numbers are not comparable, nevertheless they show a shift from 4.3m to 3.8m, a 14% fall in employment.rcs1000 said:
Germany has gone from 39m to 45m, a 15% increase.rcs1000 said:
The UK has gone from 27m to 32m, an 18% jump.rcs1000 said:
Ireland started the Euro with 1.57m in employment, and is now at 2.2m. I doubt many other countries in the world have managed a 33% increase.rcs1000 said:
I think the easy was to solve that question would be to ask which countries in the Eurozone have seen an absolute increase in the number of people in employment* since its creation on 1/1/99.ralphmalph said:So the real question is which other countries have benefited?
I would suggest maybe Ireland and Czech as the only 2.
Care to make a guess?
* You could also use the proportion of people in employment.
The US has gone from 138m to 155m, a 12% increase.
Spain has gone from 14m to 18.9m, a 35% jump - and the new record.
Portugal has gone from 4.8m to errr... 4.8m, which is flat employment.
The Netherlands data only starts in 2000, and has employment increasing from 6.9m to 8.8m, a 28% move.
So, in summary: Germany has clearly benefited - but so have Ireland, Spain, and the Netherlands, all of which have seen significantly stronger employment growth than (for example) the US.
Greece has clearly lost out badly, while Portugal hasn't done too well either.
This is the proportion of people aged 15+ in employment. Now, it's important to remember that the percentage of retired people (i.e. 65+) is in increasing almost everywhere, so that the employment proportion should be in decline in most countries.
Belgium +3
Denmark -3
Estonia +4
Finland +1
France +1
Germany +6 (!)
Greece -5 (!)
Ireland +3
Italy +1
Latvia +5
Luxembourg +5
Netherlands +2
Norway -2
Portugal -5
Spain +6 (!)
Sweden +3
UK +3
USA -4 (!)
Not, I admit, what I would have expected.0 -
SPD now preparing for new elections in 2018
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article178024250/Asylstreit-der-Union-Die-SPD-bereitet-sich-auf-Neuwahlen-vor.html
May safer than Merkel ?0 -
Spot the inflection point.Richard_Tyndall said:Since it joined the EU Latvia's population has dropped by 20%. I suspect that accounts for the rise in the percentage of Latvians in employment.
0 -
I wonder what odds you would have got a year ago, for May outlasting Mugabe and Merkel?Alanbrooke said:SPD now preparing for new elections in 2018
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article178024250/Asylstreit-der-Union-Die-SPD-bereitet-sich-auf-Neuwahlen-vor.html
May safer than Merkel ?
That said, new elections in German would probably make it even harder to form a stable government.0 -
was that ethnic Russians going back to Russia ?rcs1000 said:
Interestingly, the really big declines in Estonia's population took place before they joined the EU. Their population went from 1.566m in 1989 to 1.37m in 2000.rcs1000 said:
According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Estonia), Estonia's population has risen between 2011 (1.294m) and 2018 (1.319m), although I would expect that Latvia and Lithuania are still seeing declines.Elliot said:I wonder if there should be an emigration adjustment. The Baltics are presumably flattered by population declining not for fertility reasons but because people had to go abroad to work.
0 -
It looks like it. The ethnic Russian population has fallen substantially since 1991. The ethnic Latvian population has only fallen slightly.Alanbrooke said:
was that ethnic Russians going back to Russia ?rcs1000 said:
Interestingly, the really big declines in Estonia's population took place before they joined the EU. Their population went from 1.566m in 1989 to 1.37m in 2000.rcs1000 said:
According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Estonia), Estonia's population has risen between 2011 (1.294m) and 2018 (1.319m), although I would expect that Latvia and Lithuania are still seeing declines.Elliot said:I wonder if there should be an emigration adjustment. The Baltics are presumably flattered by population declining not for fertility reasons but because people had to go abroad to work.
The ethnic Latvian population is still well below its 1939 peak. Stalin massacred and deported loads of them in 1940 -41, and more of them fled his vengeance in 1944-45.0 -
I wasn't making any comment on why it had dropped. Just pointing out it had dropped 20% since joining the EU which accounts for why there has been a 5% increase in employment rates.williamglenn said:
Spot the inflection point.Richard_Tyndall said:Since it joined the EU Latvia's population has dropped by 20%. I suspect that accounts for the rise in the percentage of Latvians in employment.
0 -
I'm sure that's a major role. The big issue that Latvia (and a lot of other Eastern European countries) have is that the last time their birth rate was above their death rate was back in 1990.Richard_Tyndall said:Since it joined the EU Latvia's population has dropped by 20%. I suspect that accounts for the rise in the percentage of Latvians in employment.
0 -
The Tories are safer in government than the CDU; I'm not sure that May is safer than Merkel as PM/Chancellor.Alanbrooke said:SPD now preparing for new elections in 2018
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article178024250/Asylstreit-der-Union-Die-SPD-bereitet-sich-auf-Neuwahlen-vor.html
May safer than Merkel ?0 -
The idea that being an independent country in a similar manner to Australia amd Canada is as unobtainable as communist utopia is plainly nonsense. This is why Remainers must concentrate on attacking the process rather than the end state. As soon as the process is over and the debate is fully independent UK vs semi-autonomous EU member, they will be on the wrong side of all the arguments again. It also explains why they are trying to set up a vassal state status rather than full auonomy.anothernick said:
Brexit is like communism - attractive in theory but impossible to implement in the way its adherents promised.Scott_P said:0 -
The cakeism peddled by the Brexiteers was very attractive - all the benefits of the EU but none of the costs.RobD said:
You think Brexit is attractive? Could have fooled me!anothernick said:
Brexit is like communism - attractive in theory but impossible to implement in the way its adherents promised.Scott_P said:
But it was all a fantasy, and many of them knew it was a fantasy when they peddled it.0 -
Although there is also a smaller, but real, decline in ethnic Latvians starting in 2004, which is almost certainly an EU effect.Alanbrooke said:
was that ethnic Russians going back to Russia ?rcs1000 said:
Interestingly, the really big declines in Estonia's population took place before they joined the EU. Their population went from 1.566m in 1989 to 1.37m in 2000.rcs1000 said:
According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Estonia), Estonia's population has risen between 2011 (1.294m) and 2018 (1.319m), although I would expect that Latvia and Lithuania are still seeing declines.Elliot said:I wonder if there should be an emigration adjustment. The Baltics are presumably flattered by population declining not for fertility reasons but because people had to go abroad to work.
0 -
Same could be said for the Remain side. The EU has made it clear that Brexit means Brexit, and that we can’t cherry pick membership of the CU/SM.anothernick said:
The cakeism peddled by the Brexiteers was very attractive - all the benefits of the EU but none of the costs.RobD said:
You think Brexit is attractive? Could have fooled me!anothernick said:
Brexit is like communism - attractive in theory but impossible to implement in the way its adherents promised.Scott_P said:
But it was all a fantasy, and many of them knew it was a fantasy when they peddled it.0 -
Don't forget the impact of a higher death than birth rate: this means that even with flat migration (which they don't have), then their population would be declining.david_herdson said:
Although there is also a smaller, but real, decline in ethnic Latvians starting in 2004, which is almost certainly an EU effect.Alanbrooke said:
was that ethnic Russians going back to Russia ?rcs1000 said:
Interestingly, the really big declines in Estonia's population took place before they joined the EU. Their population went from 1.566m in 1989 to 1.37m in 2000.rcs1000 said:
According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Estonia), Estonia's population has risen between 2011 (1.294m) and 2018 (1.319m), although I would expect that Latvia and Lithuania are still seeing declines.Elliot said:I wonder if there should be an emigration adjustment. The Baltics are presumably flattered by population declining not for fertility reasons but because people had to go abroad to work.
0 -
Yep. Having lost the major battles they are now fighting a rearguard and sabotage action. Once we have actually left it will be decades (if ever) before the question will be asked again.Elliot said:
The idea that being an independent country in a similar manner to Australia amd Canada is as unobtainable as communist utopia is plainly nonsense. This is why Remainers must concentrate on attacking the process rather than the end state. As soon as the process is over and the debate is fully independent UK vs semi-autonomous EU member, they will be on the wrong side of all the arguments again. It also explains why they are trying to set up a vassal state status rather than full auonomy.anothernick said:
Brexit is like communism - attractive in theory but impossible to implement in the way its adherents promised.Scott_P said:0 -
The idea that *the UK* can be such a country is indeed unobtainable. If you want to redraw the boundaries then be honest about it.Elliot said:
The idea that being an independent country in a similar manner to Australia amd Canada is as unobtainable as communist utopia is plainly nonsense. This is why Remainers must concentrate on attacking the process rather than the end state. As soon as the process is over and the debate is fully independent UK vs semi-autonomous EU member, they will be on the wrong side of all the arguments again. It also explains why they are trying to set up a vassal state status rather than full auonomy.anothernick said:
Brexit is like communism - attractive in theory but impossible to implement in the way its adherents promised.Scott_P said:
Even then, the geopolitical and historical position of Britain is quite different, and were we to try to go it alone there is no good reason to think it would have a positive outcome. At the end of the day we are Europeans and we have never been able to stand aloof from European politics, however much we might have wanted to. Leaving the main political framework of Europe, that has proven its resiliency and is here to stay, so that we can sit in splendid isolation is simply a bad idea.0 -
-
Funny old World Cup when you can look forward to Iceland v Nigeria.....0
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Nothing lasts forever. Not the EU, UK, or anything. And it’s definitely not here to stay in it’s present form. It’s morphing into a more integrated body, which is why we left.williamglenn said:
The idea that *the UK* can be such a country is indeed unobtainable. If you want to redraw the boundaries then be honest about it.Elliot said:
The idea that being an independent country in a similar manner to Australia amd Canada is as unobtainable as communist utopia is plainly nonsense. This is why Remainers must concentrate on attacking the process rather than the end state. As soon as the process is over and the debate is fully independent UK vs semi-autonomous EU member, they will be on the wrong side of all the arguments again. It also explains why they are trying to set up a vassal state status rather than full auonomy.anothernick said:
Brexit is like communism - attractive in theory but impossible to implement in the way its adherents promised.Scott_P said:
Even then, the geopolitical and historical position of Britain is quite different, and were we to try to go it alone there is no good reason to think it would have a positive outcome. At the end of the day we are Europeans and we have never been able to stand aloof from European politics, however much we might have wanted to. Leaving the main political framework of Europe, that has proven its resiliency and is here to stay, so that we can sit in splendid isolation is simply a bad idea.0 -
Nigel Fucking Farage has been all over the airwaves this morning claiming that Brexit does not in fact mean BrexitRobD said:Same could be said for the Remain side. The EU has made it clear that Brexit means Brexit, and that we can’t cherry pick membership of the CU/SM.
Brexit means a completely different Brexit that he never told anyone about...0 -
Contrary to all the media reports and the full on remainers delight, Airbus’s statement is a warning not just to the UK but the EU 27 as well.
Speaking to Sky News the company’s senior vice president Katherine Bennett said
‘In the event of a no deal we would see chaos at the borders
Our parts move across the borders sometimes up to two or three times perhaps going into a satellite that we build here in the UK or the wings we make here in the UK
We don’t want them to be affected by friction at the borders’
She said
‘Airbus was running out of patience and went on to say the EU member states as well as the UK, need to understand the importance of the Airbus works
It is putting pressure on all sides, it is not just the UK she said
We are an international business and the EU27 need to understand the importance of integration and the way we work’
So the report is a warning to both sides to get their act together, pity the emphasis today is all ante the UK from large and influential groups who want Brexit stopped rather than a fair comment piece by Airbus
0 -
InevitableScott_P said:0 -
No doubt he has strong views about what form it should take. Doesn't mean he is right, of course.Scott_P said:
Nigel Fucking Farage has been all over the airwaves this morning claiming that Brexit does not in fact mean BrexitRobD said:Same could be said for the Remain side. The EU has made it clear that Brexit means Brexit, and that we can’t cherry pick membership of the CU/SM.
Brexit means a completely different Brexit that he never told anyone about...0 -
We haven't left yet, and the EU has been on that journey all the while we've been a member.RobD said:
Nothing lasts forever. Not the EU, UK, or anything. And it’s definitely not here to stay in it’s present form. It’s morphing into a more integrated body, which is why we left.williamglenn said:
The idea that *the UK* can be such a country is indeed unobtainable. If you want to redraw the boundaries then be honest about it.Elliot said:
The idea that being an independent country in a similar manner to Australia amd Canada is as unobtainable as communist utopia is plainly nonsense. This is why Remainers must concentrate on attacking the process rather than the end state. As soon as the process is over and the debate is fully independent UK vs semi-autonomous EU member, they will be on the wrong side of all the arguments again. It also explains why they are trying to set up a vassal state status rather than full auonomy.anothernick said:
Brexit is like communism - attractive in theory but impossible to implement in the way its adherents promised.Scott_P said:
Even then, the geopolitical and historical position of Britain is quite different, and were we to try to go it alone there is no good reason to think it would have a positive outcome. At the end of the day we are Europeans and we have never been able to stand aloof from European politics, however much we might have wanted to. Leaving the main political framework of Europe, that has proven its resiliency and is here to stay, so that we can sit in splendid isolation is simply a bad idea.
It's true that nothing lasts forever, but I'd give the EU at least another century.0 -
Farage turns me off every time he comes on TVScott_P said:
Nigel Fucking Farage has been all over the airwaves this morning claiming that Brexit does not in fact mean BrexitRobD said:Same could be said for the Remain side. The EU has made it clear that Brexit means Brexit, and that we can’t cherry pick membership of the CU/SM.
Brexit means a completely different Brexit that he never told anyone about...0 -
I would expect nothing less from your good self but it is not possible to know if the EU will last the next few years let alone 100williamglenn said:
We haven't left yet, and the EU has been on that journey all the while we've been a member.RobD said:
Nothing lasts forever. Not the EU, UK, or anything. And it’s definitely not here to stay in it’s present form. It’s morphing into a more integrated body, which is why we left.williamglenn said:
The idea that *the UK* can be such a country is indeed unobtainable. If you want to redraw the boundaries then be honest about it.Elliot said:
The idea that being an independent country in a similar manner to Australia amd Canada is as unobtainable as communist utopia is plainly nonsense. This is why Remainers must concentrate on attacking the process rather than the end state. As soon as the process is over and the debate is fully independent UK vs semi-autonomous EU member, they will be on the wrong side of all the arguments again. It also explains why they are trying to set up a vassal state status rather than full auonomy.anothernick said:
Brexit is like communism - attractive in theory but impossible to implement in the way its adherents promised.Scott_P said:
Even then, the geopolitical and historical position of Britain is quite different, and were we to try to go it alone there is no good reason to think it would have a positive outcome. At the end of the day we are Europeans and we have never been able to stand aloof from European politics, however much we might have wanted to. Leaving the main political framework of Europe, that has proven its resiliency and is here to stay, so that we can sit in splendid isolation is simply a bad idea.
It's true that nothing lasts forever, but I'd give the EU at least another century.0 -
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Pardon me, voted to leave. Yeah, the people would probably have been more invested in the project had they been given the opportunity to vote on it like other countries do.williamglenn said:
We haven't left yet, and the EU has been on that journey all the while we've been a member.RobD said:
Nothing lasts forever. Not the EU, UK, or anything. And it’s definitely not here to stay in it’s present form. It’s morphing into a more integrated body, which is why we left.williamglenn said:
The idea that *the UK* can be such a country is indeed unobtainable. If you want to redraw the boundaries then be honest about it.Elliot said:
The idea that being an independent country in a similar manner to Australia amd Canada is as unobtainable as communist utopia is plainly nonsense. This is why Remainers must concentrate on attacking the process rather than the end state. As soon as the process is over and the debate is fully independent UK vs semi-autonomous EU member, they will be on the wrong side of all the arguments again. It also explains why they are trying to set up a vassal state status rather than full auonomy.anothernick said:
Brexit is like communism - attractive in theory but impossible to implement in the way its adherents promised.Scott_P said:
Even then, the geopolitical and historical position of Britain is quite different, and were we to try to go it alone there is no good reason to think it would have a positive outcome. At the end of the day we are Europeans and we have never been able to stand aloof from European politics, however much we might have wanted to. Leaving the main political framework of Europe, that has proven its resiliency and is here to stay, so that we can sit in splendid isolation is simply a bad idea.
It's true that nothing lasts forever, but I'd give the EU at least another century.0 -
Correct - but Brexit won because the best most people say about the EU seems to be meh!anothernick said:
Brexit is like communism - attractive in theory but impossible to implement in the way its adherents promised.Scott_P said:0 -
Mr. Eagles, aye, the blue stripes give me nightmarish visions of the Indian circuit.0
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Belgium, Croatia, and Portugal look better than their odds would suggest.david_herdson said:Brazil still second-favourites for the World Cup on the Betfair exchange, at 5/1. I don't really see it myself. Value elsewhere, surely? Belgium, at 9/1, perhaps?
The current market looks to have a few prices based more on history than current form (all prices based on back rather than lay):
5.6 Spain
6.0 Brazil
9.2 France
9.4 Germany
10.0 belgium
12.5 England
17.0 Croatia
20.0 Portugal
32.0 uruguay0 -
True but people in the UK have been confidently predicting the EU's demise since 1957 and they have been consistently wrong.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect nothing less from your good self but it is not possible to know if the EU will last the next few years let alone 100williamglenn said:
We haven't left yet, and the EU has been on that journey all the while we've been a member.RobD said:
Nothing lasts forever. Not the EU, UK, or anything. And it’s definitely not here to stay in it’s present form. It’s morphing into a more integrated body, which is why we left.williamglenn said:
The idea that *the UK* can be such a country is indeed unobtainable. If you want to redraw the boundaries then be honest about it.Elliot said:
The idea that being an independent country in a similar manner to Australia amd Canada is as unobtainable as communist utopia is plainly nonsense. This is why Remainers must concentrate on attacking the process rather than the end state. As soon as the process is over and the debate is fully independent UK vs semi-autonomous EU member, they will be on the wrong side of all the arguments again. It also explains why they are trying to set up a vassal state status rather than full auonomy.anothernick said:
Brexit is like communism - attractive in theory but impossible to implement in the way its adherents promised.Scott_P said:
Even then, the geopolitical and historical position of Britain is quite different, and were we to try to go it alone there is no good reason to think it would have a positive outcome. At the end of the day we are Europeans and we have never been able to stand aloof from European politics, however much we might have wanted to. Leaving the main political framework of Europe, that has proven its resiliency and is here to stay, so that we can sit in splendid isolation is simply a bad idea.
It's true that nothing lasts forever, but I'd give the EU at least another century.0 -
It would be great if one of them won. Basically anyone but the big favourites.Andy_Cooke said:
Belgium, Croatia, and Portugal look better than their odds would suggest.david_herdson said:Brazil still second-favourites for the World Cup on the Betfair exchange, at 5/1. I don't really see it myself. Value elsewhere, surely? Belgium, at 9/1, perhaps?
The current market looks to have a few prices based more on history than current form (all prices based on back rather than lay):
5.6 Spain
6.0 Brazil
9.2 France
9.4 Germany
10.0 belgium
12.5 England
17.0 Croatia
20.0 Portugal
32.0 uruguay0 -
It's OK. The German car industry can be certain of tariff-free access to the UK market, thanks to the friendly Brexit negotiating approach from those in Brussels.Scott_P said:0 -
Mr. Tyndall, I agree on Belgium and Croatia. Don't want Ronaldo to win the World Cup.0
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Have they? I thought that was a recent thing.anothernick said:
True but people in the UK have been confidently predicting the EU's demise since 1957 and they have been consistently wrong.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect nothing less from your good self but it is not possible to know if the EU will last the next few years let alone 100williamglenn said:
We haven't left yet, and the EU has been on that journey all the while we've been a member.RobD said:
Nothing lasts forever. Not the EU, UK, or anything. And it’s definitely not here to stay in it’s present form. It’s morphing into a more integrated body, which is why we left.williamglenn said:
The idea that *the UK* can be such a country is indeed unobtainable. If you want to redraw the boundaries then be honest about it.Elliot said:
The idea that being an independent country in a similar manner to Australia amd Canada is as unobtainable as communist utopia is plainly nonsense. This is why Remainers must concentrate on attacking the process rather than the end state. As soon as the process is over and the debate is fully independent UK vs semi-autonomous EU member, they will be on the wrong side of all the arguments again. It also explains why they are trying to set up a vassal state status rather than full auonomy.anothernick said:
Brexit is like communism - attractive in theory but impossible to implement in the way its adherents promised.Scott_P said:
Even then, the geopolitical and historical position of Britain is quite different, and were we to try to go it alone there is no good reason to think it would have a positive outcome. At the end of the day we are Europeans and we have never been able to stand aloof from European politics, however much we might have wanted to. Leaving the main political framework of Europe, that has proven its resiliency and is here to stay, so that we can sit in splendid isolation is simply a bad idea.
It's true that nothing lasts forever, but I'd give the EU at least another century.0 -
It has long since died from its original form. No doubt it will change much in the future. I'm not convinced that more unity is possible without federalisation.anothernick said:
True but people in the UK have been confidently predicting the EU's demise since 1957 and they have been consistently wrong.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect nothing less from your good self but it is not possible to know if the EU will last the next few years let alone 100williamglenn said:
We haven't left yet, and the EU has been on that journey all the while we've been a member.RobD said:
Nothing lasts forever. Not the EU, UK, or anything. And it’s definitely not here to stay in it’s present form. It’s morphing into a more integrated body, which is why we left.williamglenn said:
The idea that *the UK* can be such a country is indeed unobtainable. If you want to redraw the boundaries then be honest about it.Elliot said:
The idea that being an independent country in a similar manner to Australia amd Canada is as unobtainable as communist utopia is plainly nonsense. This is why Remainers must concentrate on attacking the process rather than the end state. As soon as the process is over and the debate is fully independent UK vs semi-autonomous EU member, they will be on the wrong side of all the arguments again. It also explains why they are trying to set up a vassal state status rather than full auonomy.anothernick said:
Brexit is like communism - attractive in theory but impossible to implement in the way its adherents promised.Scott_P said:
Even then, the geopolitical and historical position of Britain is quite different, and were we to try to go it alone there is no good reason to think it would have a positive outcome. At the end of the day we are Europeans and we have never been able to stand aloof from European politics, however much we might have wanted to. Leaving the main political framework of Europe, that has proven its resiliency and is here to stay, so that we can sit in splendid isolation is simply a bad idea.
It's true that nothing lasts forever, but I'd give the EU at least another century.0 -
Why not ? He's the best player of his generation I think.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Tyndall, I agree on Belgium and Croatia. Don't want Ronaldo to win the World Cup.
0 -
A Remain campaign that wasn't full of fuckwits would have ripped him apart.Scott_P said:
Nigel Fucking Farage has been all over the airwaves this morning claiming that Brexit does not in fact mean BrexitRobD said:Same could be said for the Remain side. The EU has made it clear that Brexit means Brexit, and that we can’t cherry pick membership of the CU/SM.
Brexit means a completely different Brexit that he never told anyone about...
What did you do in the great Brexit War?0 -
Mr. Pulpstar, being talented and being likeable are not the same thing.0
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We have managed to stand alone in terms of political independence for the overwhelming majority of our history. Your belief that we need to be part of the EU political project to survive is simply laughable.williamglenn said:
The idea that *the UK* can be such a country is indeed unobtainable. If you want to redraw the boundaries then be honest about it.Elliot said:
The idea that being an independent country in a similar manner to Australia amd Canada is as unobtainable as communist utopia is plainly nonsense. This is why Remainers must concentrate on attacking the process rather than the end state. As soon as the process is over and the debate is fully independent UK vs semi-autonomous EU member, they will be on the wrong side of all the arguments again. It also explains why they are trying to set up a vassal state status rather than full auonomy.anothernick said:
Brexit is like communism - attractive in theory but impossible to implement in the way its adherents promised.Scott_P said:
Even then, the geopolitical and historical position of Britain is quite different, and were we to try to go it alone there is no good reason to think it would have a positive outcome. At the end of the day we are Europeans and we have never been able to stand aloof from European politics, however much we might have wanted to. Leaving the main political framework of Europe, that has proven its resiliency and is here to stay, so that we can sit in splendid isolation is simply a bad idea.0 -
currently the german car industry is crapping itselfSandyRentool said:
It's OK. The German car industry can be certain of tariff-free access to the UK market, thanks to the friendly Brexit negotiating approach from those in Brussels.Scott_P said:
- diesel gate and its dependency on diesel
- senior executives arrests
- Trump
- UK market
- uncertainty at home
0 -
Survation missed the obvious supplementary question to those who believe there will be a Brexit dividend: do you believe in Santa Claus ?0
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People have been predicting the imminent demise of the EU since 2008 and it's not come close. Support across most of the continent is strong, and particularly within the political class. Even if one or two countries cause real difficulties by electing populist, nationalist governments, it wouldn't be the sort of thing that the EU hasn't faced in the past and whether by exclusion or endurance, would likely overcome them. It'd be a blow to the EU's pride and momentum but that might be no bad thing anyway,Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect nothing less from your good self but it is not possible to know if the EU will last the next few years let alone 100williamglenn said:
We haven't left yet, and the EU has been on that journey all the while we've been a member.RobD said:
Nothing lasts forever. Not the EU, UK, or anything. And it’s definitely not here to stay in it’s present form. It’s morphing into a more integrated body, which is why we left.williamglenn said:
The idea that *the UK* can be such a country is indeed unobtainable. If you want to redraw the boundaries then be honest about it.Elliot said:
The idea that being an independent country in a similar manner to Australia amd Canada is as unobtainable as communist utopia is plainly nonsense. This is why Remainers must concentrate on attacking the process rather than the end state. As soon as the process is over and the debate is fully independent UK vs semi-autonomous EU member, they will be on the wrong side of all the arguments again. It also explains why they are trying to set up a vassal state status rather than full auonomy.anothernick said:
Brexit is like communism - attractive in theory but impossible to implement in the way its adherents promised.Scott_P said:
Even then, the geopolitical and historical position of Britain is quite different, and were we to try to go it alone there is no good reason to think it would have a positive outcome. At the end of the day we are Europeans and we have never been able to stand aloof from European politics, however much we might have wanted to. Leaving the main political framework of Europe, that has proven its resiliency and is here to stay, so that we can sit in splendid isolation is simply a bad idea.
It's true that nothing lasts forever, but I'd give the EU at least another century.0 -
Iceland are slight favourites with Betfair.MarqueeMark said:Funny old World Cup when you can look forward to Iceland v Nigeria.....
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/football/market/1.137597547
https://www.betfair.com/sport/football/event?eventId=285006240 -
'Survival' is a remarkably low bar in all but the most extreme of circumstances, which these are not.Richard_Tyndall said:
We have managed to stand alone in terms of political independence for the overwhelming majority of our history. Your belief that we need to be part of the EU political project to survive is simply laughable.williamglenn said:
The idea that *the UK* can be such a country is indeed unobtainable. If you want to redraw the boundaries then be honest about it.Elliot said:
The idea that being an independent country in a similar manner to Australia amd Canada is as unobtainable as communist utopia is plainly nonsense. This is why Remainers must concentrate on attacking the process rather than the end state. As soon as the process is over and the debate is fully independent UK vs semi-autonomous EU member, they will be on the wrong side of all the arguments again. It also explains why they are trying to set up a vassal state status rather than full auonomy.anothernick said:
Brexit is like communism - attractive in theory but impossible to implement in the way its adherents promised.Scott_P said:
Even then, the geopolitical and historical position of Britain is quite different, and were we to try to go it alone there is no good reason to think it would have a positive outcome. At the end of the day we are Europeans and we have never been able to stand aloof from European politics, however much we might have wanted to. Leaving the main political framework of Europe, that has proven its resiliency and is here to stay, so that we can sit in splendid isolation is simply a bad idea.0 -
Don't you like the public response thensurby said:Survation missed the obvious supplementary question to those who believe there will be a Brexit dividend: do you believe in Santa Claus ?
0 -
Only one country is leaving the EU. If the wings were made in France there would be no need of a frictionless border as there would not be one.Big_G_NorthWales said:Contrary to all the media reports and the full on remainers delight, Airbus’s statement is a warning not just to the UK but the EU 27 as well.
Speaking to Sky News the company’s senior vice president Katherine Bennett said
‘In the event of a no deal we would see chaos at the borders
Our parts move across the borders sometimes up to two or three times perhaps going into a satellite that we build here in the UK or the wings we make here in the UK
We don’t want them to be affected by friction at the borders’
She said
‘Airbus was running out of patience and went on to say the EU member states as well as the UK, need to understand the importance of the Airbus works
It is putting pressure on all sides, it is not just the UK she said
We are an international business and the EU27 need to understand the importance of integration and the way we work’
So the report is a warning to both sides to get their act together, pity the emphasis today is all ante the UK from large and influential groups who want Brexit stopped rather than a fair comment piece by Airbus0 -
I don't believe the EU will collapse but it may well shed a few more members if it continues on its current path.david_herdson said:
People have been predicting the imminent demise of the EU since 2008 and it's not come close. Support across most of the continent is strong, and particularly within the political class. Even if one or two countries cause real difficulties by electing populist, nationalist governments, it wouldn't be the sort of thing that the EU hasn't faced in the past and whether by exclusion or endurance, would likely overcome them. It'd be a blow to the EU's pride and momentum but that might be no bad thing anyway,Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect nothing less from your good self but it is not possible to know if the EU will last the next few years let alone 100williamglenn said:
We haven't left yet, and the EU has been on that journey all the while we've been a member.RobD said:
Nothing lasts forever. Not the EU, UK, or anything. And it’s definitely not here to stay in it’s present form. It’s morphing into a more integrated body, which is why we left.williamglenn said:
The idea that *the UK* can be such a country is indeed unobtainable. If you want to redraw the boundaries then be honest about it.Elliot said:
The idea that being an independent country in a similar manner to Australia amd Canada is as unobtainable as communist utopia is plainly nonsense. This is why Remainers must concentrate on attacking the process rather than the end state. As soon as the process is over and the debate is fully independent UK vs semi-autonomous EU member, they will be on the wrong side of all the arguments again. It also explains why they are trying to set up a vassal state status rather than full auonomy.anothernick said:
Brexit is like communism - attractive in theory but impossible to implement in the way its adherents promised.Scott_P said:
Even then, the geopolitical and historical position of Britain is quite different, and were we to try to go it alone there is no good reason to think it would have a positive outcome. At the end of the day we are Europeans and we have never been able to stand aloof from European politics, however much we might have wanted to. Leaving the main political framework of Europe, that has proven its resiliency and is here to stay, so that we can sit in splendid isolation is simply a bad idea.
It's true that nothing lasts forever, but I'd give the EU at least another century.0 -
I thought they were talking about moving it to China/US?surby said:
Only one country is leaving the EU. If the wings were made in France there would be no need of a frictionless border as there would not be one.Big_G_NorthWales said:Contrary to all the media reports and the full on remainers delight, Airbus’s statement is a warning not just to the UK but the EU 27 as well.
Speaking to Sky News the company’s senior vice president Katherine Bennett said
‘In the event of a no deal we would see chaos at the borders
Our parts move across the borders sometimes up to two or three times perhaps going into a satellite that we build here in the UK or the wings we make here in the UK
We don’t want them to be affected by friction at the borders’
She said
‘Airbus was running out of patience and went on to say the EU member states as well as the UK, need to understand the importance of the Airbus works
It is putting pressure on all sides, it is not just the UK she said
We are an international business and the EU27 need to understand the importance of integration and the way we work’
So the report is a warning to both sides to get their act together, pity the emphasis today is all ante the UK from large and influential groups who want Brexit stopped rather than a fair comment piece by Airbus0 -
People believing what they want to believe at the drop of a hat before the evidence is in. Both sides are increasingly guilty of it.Pulpstar said:0
This discussion has been closed.