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Tories, don't you just love em.TheScreamingEagles said:
They trialled it in a few places.another_richard said:
Thanks.TheScreamingEagles said:
It is still being rolled out.another_richard said:
When was it introduced ?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is failing to increase employment amongst the long term unemployed.Philip_Thompson said:
If it will fail to increase employment how come since it was launched we've seen employment skyrocket to record levels?TheScreamingEagles said:I’ve been banging on about this for years. IDS has left a nuclear booby trap for the Tories.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1007365722346016768?s=21
The new jobs are being taken by new entrants in the labour market.
They are doing it in several phases
Its still behind schedule then - not surprisingly.
As to its effect on the long term unemployed there's clearly a 'Giro Jim' component to them, how big that is I don't know.
Then rolled it out to other places where new claimants are automatically put on Universal Credit.
Then the plan is by 2020 move across all other existing benefit claimants.
The ticking timebomb is most of the tax credits recipients are yet to move over to UC.
My friend works in a UC JCP and she says it is a disaster. It is great in theory but the logistics of it are messed up.
Many moons ago I used to volunteer 3 hours a week helping the families of prisoners with problems, the chap that runs that clinic says UC is so pernicious, it is an Orwellian nightmare.
Says he's branched out to helping any families and he and his staff are having to give them money and food, that's how bad the situation is.0 -
Well, the Mirror was 'recently' (justin124 said:
Perhaps because the Mail has continued to plough a very rightwing furrow - every bit as extreme as The Morning Star or Socialist Worker on the left.ydoethur said:
It's always amused me somewhat that the Mail is never allowed to forget its brief flirtation with Fascism, while the Mirror, who were unabashed supporters of Mosley for far longer and whose readership was a great deal more - shall we say - niche is given a free pass on the issue.justin124 said:
Better known as the Daily Blackshirt!Jonathan said:
He toned that down.augustus_carp said:Dominic Grieve MP on Radio 4 just now has called the Daily Mail a "vile" newspaper, which seeks to stir up hatred.
) owned by Robert Maxwell and now supports Corbyn...
And with that, I bid one and all good night.0 -
That's pathetically slow! On another note, I wouldn't mind living again in Taplow, where I was for a short time, in order to Dominic Grieve a piece of my mind.TheScreamingEagles said:The result in Lewisham is expected around 3am.
I'm off to bed 'cause it is Eid tomorrow, one of the two days a year I have to pretend to be a good Muslim.0 -
Got any proof of this?SouthamObserver said:
In many instances, the UK market isn’t big enough to justify the investments needed to build production facilities from scratch.ralphmalph said:
Companies that want to fill the demand left the by the European companies whose products are now un-competitive in the UK will fill the hole.FF43 said:
Not all will move from the the UK to the EU and not all at once. But no-one will be investing in the UK because of Brexit while plenty of companies are making the marginal decisions to place their investments in the EU and out of the UK.steve_garner said:
So you think all the British companies that export to the EU will just move operations to Europe then? Do you think all the European companies that export to Britain will do the reverse?FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll over to non-European customers? I would like to see you sell Dutch books in China or German books in India!SeanT said:williamglenn said:
I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal. It will fuck everything up for a year or two, and London property owners (like me) will take a major hit, but we are the British, we have been through far, far worse.
And in the end, total freedom from the EU might well be a huge economic boost. Who knows?
Either way we shall be free. If it is No Deal. So be it.
I have never understood why Derivative trading in London for German, French or Italian customers will be magically changed to countries that might not have developed to the point where they need high ended Financial services for instance.
I just think Brexit is a process of self harm economically and downturns are NEVER easy for those who are afflicted by the fall out.
I doubt property will take. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.
The lesson of the 30's is that the countries that had a trade deficit did better than those that had a surplus.0 -
Disabled protesters have thrown red paint over Downing Street's gates during a protest against the Government's welfare reforms.Jonathan said:
Tories, don't you just love em.
The group chanted slogans against the Prime Minister, Tony Blair, outside his official residence, Number 10 Downing Street.
The paint was thrown at the gate blocking public access to the street from Whitehall.
"Blair's Blood" was daubed on the pavement nearby.
Four protesters got out of their wheelchairs to smear the red paint on the road.
Kevin Donnellon, 35, a thalidomide victim, said the Government's intention to reform the benefits system would lead him to lose his invalidity benefit and mobility allowance.
He said: "I will not be able to run my car without my benefit and allowance money.
"These benefits are worth around £150 a week to me and my whole lifestyle is based around getting this money.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/41746.stm0 -
I didn't say that either. I said no-one was investing in the UK because of Brexit but plenty of people were making marginal decisions to invest in the EU that would otherwise have gone to the UK, because of Brexit. That translates into less investment, business, jobs and wealth than we would otherwise have. It's reasonable and accurate to say that Brexit has a negative effect ON Britain.it doesn't mean I'm negative ABOUT Britain.RobD said:
He literally predicted zero investment in the UK after Brexit. There's being negative, but that's something else entirely!SouthamObserver said:
I do not believe that was FF43’s point. The point being made is that if your biggest market is the single market you are likely to be better off based inside it than outside it. I don’t see how that is being negative about Britain.0 -
Well in fairness the result was actually known about 5 minutes after the vacancy was announced so it is not as though a rush is needed, those with bets on turnout and second finishers can afford to sweat for a few hours.hunchman said:
That's pathetically slow!TheScreamingEagles said:The result in Lewisham is expected around 3am.
I'm off to bed 'cause it is Eid tomorrow, one of the two days a year I have to pretend to be a good Muslim.
Night all.
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A Canada style FTA destroys integrated manufacturing chains. It’s hard to see how the government can go ahead with one. The EU would do such a deal. The problems with it are all on our side.kle4 said:
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcomekle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
I may be naiive, but even among the murky depths of politics there must be times when you need to trust someone, on your side or another side, and while spin and obfuscation and other tactics are all part of the game, certain behaviours, direct deceipt for instance, will not be regarded as sensible tactics, and will lead to personal disagreements the likes of which will cause some people to behave irrationally out of anger down the line.felix said:
I always thought - as do most voters- that politics was just another word for deceit plus Gieve and Soubry are both lawyers and that is their stock in trade.kle4 said:
If May is prepared to deceive them (which they seem to think she did, even if she would say otherwise) then their previous reluctance to unintentionally engender such an outcome might alter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
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You should check Saliston Ltd and Pickering and Chatto International. I'm sure JRM would love to talk about where that all traces back to!The_Taxman said:
Like Jacob Rees Mogg and Somerset Capital Management then! They have next to No investment in the UK! JRM backing Britain- NOT!RobD said:
He literally predicted zero investment in the UK after Brexit. There's being negative, but that's something else entirely!SouthamObserver said:
I do not believe that was FF43’s point. The point being made is that if your biggest market is the single market you are likely to be better off based inside it than outside it. I don’t see how that is being negative about Britain.0 -
snip0
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Governments, don't you just love 'em - turns out whatever their branding they can really cock things upTheScreamingEagles said:
Disabled protesters have thrown red paint over Downing Street's gates during a protest against the Government's welfare reforms.Jonathan said:
Tories, don't you just love em.
The group chanted slogans against the Prime Minister, Tony Blair, outside his official residence, Number 10 Downing Street.
The paint was thrown at the gate blocking public access to the street from Whitehall.
"Blair's Blood" was daubed on the pavement nearby.
Four protesters got out of their wheelchairs to smear the red paint on the road.
Kevin Donnellon, 35, a thalidomide victim, said the Government's intention to reform the benefits system would lead him to lose his invalidity benefit and mobility allowance.
He said: "I will not be able to run my car without my benefit and allowance money.
"These benefits are worth around £150 a week to me and my whole lifestyle is based around getting this money.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/41746.stm
And appear unresolvable.SouthamObserver said:
A Canada style FTA destroys integrated manufacturing chains. It’s hard to see how the government can go ahead with one. The EU would do such a deal. The problems with it are all on our side.0 -
@FF43 - Delotte's in Germany did the work. Germany loses 800,000 auto exports to the UK. The UK looses 300K to EU. The UK market has a 500K gap to fill either by home grown production or from RoW suppliers. The EU has 500K surplus production looking for non existent customers.
It is that simple.0 -
Sean_F said:
Not necessarily. I cannot see BMW cars being banned or wine consumption going down because of Brexit. Changing peoples habits is a difficult ask. For instance if you have a favorite Wine or Beer that comes from Germany, France or Italy - will the consumer change? I have noticed that Brexit minded people like yourself do not seem to factor in that peoples habits die hard. The terms of trade are that poor with the EU that even if Imports fell at the same rate as exports we will still be a net importer.The_Taxman said:
The impact would be mitigated by a fall in imports from the EU.steve_garner said:SouthamObserver said:
The Single Market has a population of 400 million. The UK doesn’t.steve_garner said:FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll over to non-European customers? I would like to see you sell Dutch books in China or German books in India!SeanT said:
I just think Brexit is a process of self harm economically and downturns are NEVER easy for those who are afflicted by the fall out.
I doubt property will take much of a hit by the way. The Bank of England will just relax monetary policy to compensate, if Sterling falls more outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.
Preparing for Brexit is like preparing to fail. I can see this becoming very unpopular even with those duped into supporting it.
UK exporters on the other hand will be in the unique position of having effectively been sanctioned by their own Government! Unless we put Tariffs on the EU, which I do not see happening Brexit is a one sided move against its own country. It is mad! UK companies will be locked out of the EU market. It is as simple as that.0 -
Ah, thanks. My apologies FF43! I thought you meant because of Brexit no one was going to invest in the UK, which was ludicrous!SouthamObserver said:
No, he didn’t. He said Brexit would not lead to people investing in the UK.RobD said:
He literally predicted zero investment in the UK after Brexit. There's being negative, but that's something else entirely!SouthamObserver said:
I do not believe that was FF43’s point. The point being made is that if your biggest market is the single market you are likely to be better off based inside it than outside it. I don’t see how that is being negative about Britain.0 -
We could buy less new cars? A drop in consumption wouldn’t be the end of the world from a health and environment point of view?ralphmalph said:@FF43 - Delotte's in Germany did the work. Germany loses 800,000 auto exports to the UK. The UK looses 300K to EU. The UK market has a 500K gap to fill either by home grown production or from RoW suppliers. The EU has 500K surplus production looking for non existent customers.
It is that simple.0 -
I fully agree and Carney is trying to stop it, he is worried about PCP. Small terraced house, his and hers Porches on the drive, Greece all over again,Gallowgate said:
We could buy less new cars? A drop in consumption wouldn’t be the end of the world from a health and environment point of view?ralphmalph said:@FF43 - Delotte's in Germany did the work. Germany loses 800,000 auto exports to the UK. The UK looses 300K to EU. The UK market has a 500K gap to fill either by home grown production or from RoW suppliers. The EU has 500K surplus production looking for non existent customers.
It is that simple.0 -
Loads of Strawberries on sale in my local Tesco tonight - the weather over the past month seems to have led to a bumper crop. Even selling strawberries by the kilogram as well as 300 / 600g packs - good to see!ralphmalph said:
The Telegraph ad an article on this. What we had was a cold Feb and March, which meant the crop was delayed by 6 weeks, but the fruit was larger and juicier. As a result we have a bumper crop of extraordinary strawberries this year in size and juice. So tuck in, because the foreign imports are sub standard compared to home grown.another_richard said:Today's Tesco Strawberry score:
Aberdeenshire
Staffordshire
Herefordshire
Somerset
Surrey
Kent
A rather miserly six.0 -
No, they'll invest despite Brexit.SouthamObserver said:
No, he didn’t. He said Brexit would not lead to people investing in the UK.RobD said:
He literally predicted zero investment in the UK after Brexit. There's being negative, but that's something else entirely!SouthamObserver said:
I do not believe that was FF43’s point. The point being made is that if your biggest market is the single market you are likely to be better off based inside it than outside it. I don’t see how that is being negative about Britain.
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The basis of the deal on citizens' rights, the exit bill and regulatory alignment was agreed between May and Barnier in December, everything else since has just been hot air.kle4 said:
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcomekle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
I may be naiive, but even among the murky depths of politics there must be times when you need to trust someone, on your side or another side, and while spin and obfuscation and other tactics are all part of the game, certain behaviours, direct deceipt for instance, will not be regarded as sensible tactics, and will lead to personal disagreements the likes of which will cause some people to behave irrationally out of anger down the line.felix said:
I always thought - as do most voters- that politics was just another word for deceit plus Gieve and Soubry are both lawyers and that is their stock in trade.kle4 said:
If May is prepared to deceive them (which they seem to think she did, even if she would say otherwise) then their previous reluctance to unintentionally engender such an outcome might alter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
A Canada style FTA also does not require FoM0 -
Enjoyed the chaos of PMQ's yesterday. Was good fun with Bercow made to look like the complete fool that he is!0
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The government has yet to agree with itself on regulatory alignment. But if it wants a job-destroying, City-harming, Canada-style FTA it can undoubtedly get one.HYUFD said:
The basis of the deal on citizens' rights, the exit bill and regulatory alignment was agreed between May and Barnier in December, everything else since has just been hot air.kle4 said:
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcomekle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
I may be naiive, but even among the murky depths of politics there must be times when you need to trust someone, on your side or another side, and while spin and obfuscation and other tactics are all part of the game, certain behaviours, direct deceipt for instance, will not be regarded as sensible tactics, and will lead to personal disagreements the likes of which will cause some people to behave irrationally out of anger down the line.felix said:
I always thought - as do most voters- that politics was just another word for deceit plus Gieve and Soubry are both lawyers and that is their stock in trade.kle4 said:
If May is prepared to deceive them (which they seem to think she did, even if she would say otherwise) then their previous reluctance to unintentionally engender such an outcome might alter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
A Canada style FTA also does not require FoM
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That’s how I read it too.RobD said:
Ah, thanks. My apologies FF43! I thought you meant because of Brexit no one was going to invest in the UK, which was ludicrous!SouthamObserver said:
No, he didn’t. He said Brexit would not lead to people investing in the UK.RobD said:
He literally predicted zero investment in the UK after Brexit. There's being negative, but that's something else entirely!SouthamObserver said:
I do not believe that was FF43’s point. The point being made is that if your biggest market is the single market you are likely to be better off based inside it than outside it. I don’t see how that is being negative about Britain.
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Critical moment short term on the financial markets:
http://www.pretzelcharts.com/
Somehow I think the market may duck the big decisions over the next fortnight or so with the world cup on, but should get some fireworks again soon in the sovereign debt markets ie watch Italian government paper. We need follow through at some point after the stupendous move on the 29th May. Nice USD strength today, the great dollar bull run over the next 2.5 years is in its infancy. Its going to be a great ride in USD denominated assets that are going to rise long term like the US stockmarket and gold. As for a lot of other things ..........0 -
It isn't that simple. Hard Brexit will lead to a number of automotive job losses in Germany and a much larger number in the UK. In fact those job losses have already started in component suppliers as OEMs repatriate their supply chains to the rEU.ralphmalph said:@FF43 - Delotte's in Germany did the work. Germany loses 800,000 auto exports to the UK. The UK looses 300K to EU. The UK market has a 500K gap to fill either by home grown production or from RoW suppliers. The EU has 500K surplus production looking for non existent customers.
It is that simple.
But don't you think we should worry more about our own job losses rather than German ones?0 -
I believe what the SNP MP's were saying, that the 'stunt' genuinely wasn't planned. Bercow and his entourage flustering around not knowing what to do was a delightkle4 said:
Not sure a silly stunt, whether there was genuine and justified aggrievement behind it, makes him look much of a fool.hunchman said:Enjoyed the chaos of PMQ's yesterday. Was good fun with Bercow made to look like the complete fool that he is!
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That’s pretty much it. Companies whose major market is the UK will continue to invest in the UK.RobD said:
No, they'll invest despite Brexit.SouthamObserver said:
No, he didn’t. He said Brexit would not lead to people investing in the UK.RobD said:
He literally predicted zero investment in the UK after Brexit. There's being negative, but that's something else entirely!SouthamObserver said:
I do not believe that was FF43’s point. The point being made is that if your biggest market is the single market you are likely to be better off based inside it than outside it. I don’t see how that is being negative about Britain.
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Perhaps we could opt for freedom of movement with Canada instead and just not bother with more going nowhere negotiations with Barnier and co - after all it would be nice to actually have FOM with a country most Brits would have some interest in moving to!SouthamObserver said:
The government has yet to agree with itself on regulatory alignment. But if it wants a job-destroying, City-harming, Canada-style FTA it can undoubtedly get one.HYUFD said:
The basis of the deal on citizens' rights, the exit bill and regulatory alignment was agreed between May and Barnier in December, everything else since has just been hot air.kle4 said:
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcomekle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
I may be naiive, but even among the murky depths of politics there must be times when you need to trust someone, on your side or another side, and while spin and obfuscation and other tactics are all part of the game, certain behaviours, direct deceipt for instance, will not be regarded as sensible tactics, and will lead to personal disagreements the likes of which will cause some people to behave irrationally out of anger down the line.felix said:
I always thought - as do most voters- that politics was just another word for deceit plus Gieve and Soubry are both lawyers and that is their stock in trade.kle4 said:
If May is prepared to deceive them (which they seem to think she did, even if she would say otherwise) then their previous reluctance to unintentionally engender such an outcome might alter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
A Canada style FTA also does not require FoM
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Absolutely. What the remoaners don't understand is the reality of business. You can't replicate the financial architecture that the City of London has overnight in another financial centre such as Frankfurt. According to some of them, Frankfurt was going to dwarf London by now as a financial centre given Brexit nearly 2 years ago. About as accurate as all the global warming rubbish put out from so many of the same crowd.SouthamObserver said:
That’s pretty much it. Companies whose major market is the UK will continue to invest in the UK.RobD said:
No, they'll invest despite Brexit.SouthamObserver said:
No, he didn’t. He said Brexit would not lead to people investing in the UK.RobD said:
He literally predicted zero investment in the UK after Brexit. There's being negative, but that's something else entirely!SouthamObserver said:
I do not believe that was FF43’s point. The point being made is that if your biggest market is the single market you are likely to be better off based inside it than outside it. I don’t see how that is being negative about Britain.0 -
Totally wrong. Suppliers are already moving to the UK. The FT has articles on it. JLR has convinced their French plastic bumper supplier to open a factory here. Liberty has moved production of door safety bars to the UK, new pressing plant in Coventy, Allow wheel production facility in Scotland, the list is endless.FF43 said:
It isn't that simple. Hard Brexit will lead to a number of automotive job losses in Germany and a much larger number in the UK. In fact those job losses have already started in component suppliers as OEMs repatriate their supply chains to the rEU.ralphmalph said:@FF43 - Delotte's in Germany did the work. Germany loses 800,000 auto exports to the UK. The UK looses 300K to EU. The UK market has a 500K gap to fill either by home grown production or from RoW suppliers. The EU has 500K surplus production looking for non existent customers.
It is that simple.
But don't you think we should worry more about our own job losses rather than German ones?0 -
A Canada style FTA would respect the Brexit vote to regain sovereignty and restore control over EU immigration while avoiding the job destruction of WTO terms BrexitSouthamObserver said:
The government has yet to agree with itself on regulatory alignment. But if it wants a job-destroying, City-harming, Canada-style FTA it can undoubtedly get one.HYUFD said:
The basis of the deal on citizens' rights, the exit bill and regulatory alignment was agreed between May and Barnier in December, everything else since has just been hot air.kle4 said:
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcomekle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
I may be naiive, but even among the murky depths of politics there must be times when you need to trust someone, on your side or another side, and while spin and obfuscation and other tactics are all part of the game, certain behaviours, direct deceipt for instance, will not be regarded as sensible tactics, and will lead to personal disagreements the likes of which will cause some people to behave irrationally out of anger down the line.felix said:
I always thought - as do most voters- that politics was just another word for deceit plus Gieve and Soubry are both lawyers and that is their stock in trade.kle4 said:
If May is prepared to deceive them (which they seem to think she did, even if she would say otherwise) then their previous reluctance to unintentionally engender such an outcome might alter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
A Canada style FTA also does not require FoM0 -
So Theresa May reached out with a compromise to Dominic Grieve and he has turned round and spat in her face. She should just withdraw the whip. He seems intent on destroying his party and letting in Corbyn after all.0
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Construction and agricultural wages are already surging in the UK for the working class. But you want to put the bankers first.SouthamObserver said:
The government has yet to agree with itself on regulatory alignment. But if it wants a job-destroying, City-harming, Canada-style FTA it can undoubtedly get one.HYUFD said:
The basis of the deal on citizens' rights, the exit bill and regulatory alignment was agreed between May and Barnier in December, everything else since has just been hot air.kle4 said:
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcomekle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
I may be naiive, but even among the murky depths of politics there must be times when you need to trust someone, on your side or another side, and while spin and obfuscation and other tactics are all part of the game, certain behaviours, direct deceipt for instance, will not be regarded as sensible tactics, and will lead to personal disagreements the likes of which will cause some people to behave irrationally out of anger down the line.felix said:
I always thought - as do most voters- that politics was just another word for deceit plus Gieve and Soubry are both lawyers and that is their stock in trade.kle4 said:
If May is prepared to deceive them (which they seem to think she did, even if she would say otherwise) then their previous reluctance to unintentionally engender such an outcome might alter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
A Canada style FTA also does not require FoM0 -
It would not avoid job destruction. The only issue is the scale.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA would respect the Brexit vote to regain sovereignty and restore control over EU immigration while avoiding the job destruction of WTO terms BrexitSouthamObserver said:
The government has yet to agree with itself on regulatory alignment. But if it wants a job-destroying, City-harming, Canada-style FTA it can undoubtedly get one.HYUFD said:
The basis of the deal on citizens' rights, the exit bill and regulatory alignment was agreed between May and Barnier in December, everything else since has just been hot air.kle4 said:
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcomekle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
I may be naiive, but even among the murky depths of politics there must be times when you need to trust someone, on your side or another side, and while spin and obfuscation and other tactics are all part of the game, certain behaviours, direct deceipt for instance, will not be regarded as sensible tactics, and will lead to personal disagreements the likes of which will cause some people to behave irrationally out of anger down the line.felix said:
I always thought - as do most voters- that politics was just another word for deceit plus Gieve and Soubry are both lawyers and that is their stock in trade.kle4 said:
If May is prepared to deceive them (which they seem to think she did, even if she would say otherwise) then their previous reluctance to unintentionally engender such an outcome might alter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
A Canada style FTA also does not require FoM
0 -
You'll be pleased to know that I'll be back in the UK working for a Japanese bank in a few months. They've assured me that the role won't be moving anywhere outside of the City and if it does I will get a pretty big payout.SouthamObserver said:
The government has yet to agree with itself on regulatory alignment. But if it wants a job-destroying, City-harming, Canada-style FTA it can undoubtedly get one.HYUFD said:
The basis of the deal on citizens' rights, the exit bill and regulatory alignment was agreed between May and Barnier in December, everything else since has just been hot air.kle4 said:
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcomekle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
I may be naiive, but even among the murky depths of politics there must be times when you need to trust someone, on your side or another side, and while spin and obfuscation and other tactics are all part of the game, certain behaviours, direct deceipt for instance, will not be regarded as sensible tactics, and will lead to personal disagreements the likes of which will cause some people to behave irrationally out of anger down the line.felix said:
I always thought - as do most voters- that politics was just another word for deceit plus Gieve and Soubry are both lawyers and that is their stock in trade.kle4 said:
If May is prepared to deceive them (which they seem to think she did, even if she would say otherwise) then their previous reluctance to unintentionally engender such an outcome might alter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
A Canada style FTA also does not require FoM
If Brexit is destroying the City, you should probably tell the banks. I don't think they know yet.0 -
Some jobs would be lost. Some would be gained. But working class wages will rise and housing unaffordability will slow.SouthamObserver said:
It would not avoid job destruction. The only issue is the scale.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA would respect the Brexit vote to regain sovereignty and restore control over EU immigration while avoiding the job destruction of WTO terms BrexitSouthamObserver said:
The government has yet to agree with itself on regulatory alignment. But if it wants a job-destroying, City-harming, Canada-style FTA it can undoubtedly get one.HYUFD said:
The basis of the deal on citizens' rights, the exit bill and regulatory alignment was agreed between May and Barnier in December, everything else since has just been hot air.kle4 said:
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcomekle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
.felix said:
I always thought - as do most voters- that politics was just another word for deceit plus Gieve and Soubry are both lawyers and that is their stock in trade.kle4 said:
If May is prepared to deceive them (which they seem to think she did, even if she would say otherwise) then their previous reluctance to unintentionally engender such an outcome might alter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
A Canada style FTA also does not require FoM0 -
Construction workers already earn more than the traditional lower/middle class.Elliot said:
Construction and agricultural wages are already surging in the UK for the working class. But you want to put the bankers first.SouthamObserver said:
The government has yet to agree with itself on regulatory alignment. But if it wants a job-destroying, City-harming, Canada-style FTA it can undoubtedly get one.HYUFD said:
The basis of the deal on citizens' rights, the exit bill and regulatory alignment was agreed between May and Barnier in December, everything else since has just been hot air.kle4 said:
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcomekle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
I may be naiive, but even among the murky depths of politics there must be times when you need to trust someone, on your side or another side, and while spin and obfuscation and other tactics are all part of the game, certain behaviours, direct deceipt for instance, will not be regarded as sensible tactics, and will lead to personal disagreements the likes of which will cause some people to behave irrationally out of anger down the line.felix said:
I always thought - as do most voters- that politics was just another word for deceit plus Gieve and Soubry are both lawyers and that is their stock in trade.kle4 said:
If May is prepared to deceive them (which they seem to think she did, even if she would say otherwise) then their previous reluctance to unintentionally engender such an outcome might alter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
A Canada style FTA also does not require FoM0 -
Surging :-DElliot said:
Construction and agricultural wages are already surging in the UK for the working class. But you want to put the bankers first.SouthamObserver said:
The government has yet to agree with itself on regulatory alignment. But if it wants a job-destroying, City-harming, Canada-style FTA it can undoubtedly get one.HYUFD said:
The basis of the deal on citizens' rights, the exit bill and regulatory alignment was agreed between May and Barnier in December, everything else since has just been hot air.kle4 said:
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcomekle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
I may be naiiveance, will not be regarded as sensible tactics, and will lead to personal disagreements the likes of which will cause some people to behave irrationally out of anger down the line.felix said:
I always thought - as do most voters- that politics was just another word for deceit plus Gieve and Soubry are both lawyers and that is their stock in trade.kle4 said:
If May is prepared to deceive them (which they seem to think she did, even if she would say otherwise) then their previous reluctance to unintentionally engender such an outcome might alter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
A Canada style FTA also does not require FoM
I want wealth to be created sustainably because I believe its redistribution is the best way to create equality of opportunity and to make society fairer. I don’t think you do that by reducing tax take, increasing borrowing costs and lowering investments in public services. Sorry.
0 -
The 52% of Leave voters put regaining sovereignty and reducing immigration first above the economy so that has be respected given they won but the 48% of Remain voters who put the economy first also need to be considered in trying to get some sort of free trade deal even if we leave the single market and customs union as the Commons has now confirmedSouthamObserver said:
It would not avoid job destruction. The only issue is the scale.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA would respect the Brexit vote to regain sovereignty and restore control over EU immigration while avoiding the job destruction of WTO terms BrexitSouthamObserver said:
The government has yet to agree with itself on regulatory alignment. But if it wants a job-destroying, City-harming, Canada-style FTA it can undoubtedly get one.HYUFD said:
The basis of the deal on citizens' rights, the exit bill and regulatory alignment was agreed between May and Barnier in December, everything else since has just been hot air.kle4 said:
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcomekle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
I may be naiive, but even among the murky depths of politics there must wn the line.felix said:
I always thought - as do most voters- that politics was just another word for deceit plus Gieve and Soubry are both lawyers and that is their stock in trade.kle4 said:
If May is prepared to deceive them (which they seem to think she did, even if she would say otherwise) then their previous reluctance to unintentionally engender such an outcome might alter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
A Canada style FTA also does not require FoM0 -
Brexit has yet to happen. A Canada-style FTA will undoubtedly damage the City.MaxPB said:
You'll be pleased to know that I'll be back in the UK working for a Japanese bank in a few months. They've assured me that the role won't be moving anywhere outside of the City and if it does I will get a pretty big payout.SouthamObserver said:
The government has yet to agree with itself on regulatory alignment. But if it wants a job-destroying, City-harming, Canada-style FTA it can undoubtedly get one.HYUFD said:
The basis of the deal on citizens' rights, the exit bill and regulatory alignment was agreed between May and Barnier in December, everything else since has just been hot air.kle4 said:
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcomekle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
I may be naiive, but even among the will not be regarded as sensible tactics, and will lead to personal disagreements the likes of which will cause some people to behave irrationally out of anger down the line.felix said:
I always thought - as do most voters- that politics was just another word for deceit plus Gieve and Soubry are both lawyers and that is their stock in trade.kle4 said:
If May is prepared to deceive them (which they seem to think she did, even if she would say otherwise) then their previous reluctance to unintentionally engender such an outcome might alter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
A Canada style FTA also does not require FoM
If Brexit is destroying the City, you should probably tell the banks. I don't think they know yet.
0 -
I just found out that Dominic Grieve was educated during his formative years in a French school owned by the French government. That explains a few things!0
-
Yep, he’s very smart.Elliot said:I just found out that Dominic Grieve was educated during his formative years in a French school owned by the French government. That explains a few things!
0 -
He's also President of the Franco-British society and is paid by French state TV!0
-
Years of private education and had to get his law degree from a polytechnic?SouthamObserver said:
Yep, he’s very smart.Elliot said:I just found out that Dominic Grieve was educated during his formative years in a French school owned by the French government. That explains a few things!
0 -
Some of the 52% put regaining sovereignty and reducing immigration above the economy. Others voted on the basis that there would be no downside to voting Leave.HYUFD said:
The 52% of Leave voters put regaining sovereignty and reducing immigration first above the economy so that has be respected given they won but the 48% of Remain voters who put the economy first also need to be considered in trying to get some sort of free trade deal even if we leave the single market and customs union as the Commons has now confirmedSouthamObserver said:
It would not avoid job destruction. The only issue is the scale.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA would respect the Brexit vote to regain sovereignty and restore control over EU immigration while avoiding the job destruction of WTO terms BrexitSouthamObserver said:
The government has yet get one.HYUFD said:
The basis of everything else since has just been hot air.kle4 said:
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcomekle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
I may be naiive, but even among the murky depths of politics there must wn the line.felix said:
I always thought - as do most voters- that politics was just another word for deceit plus Gieve and Soubry are both lawyers and that is their stock in trade.kle4 said:
If May is prepared to deceive them (whichengender such an outcome might alter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
A Canada style FTA also does not require FoM
0 -
No gossip from Lewisham yet?0
-
What makes you think working class people with jobs in the car, aerospace and similar high-grade manufacturing sectors will see their wages rise?Elliot said:
Some jobs would be lost. Some would be gained. But working class wages will rise and housing unaffordability will slow.SouthamObserver said:
It would not avoid job destruction. The only issue is the scale.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA would respect the Brexit vote to regain sovereignty and restore control over EU immigration while avoiding the job destruction of WTO terms BrexitSouthamObserver said:
The government has yet to agree with itself on regulatory alignment. But if it wants a job-destroying, City-harming, Canada-style FTA it can undoubtedly get one.HYUFD said:
The basis of the deal on citizens' rights, the exit bill and regulatory alignment was agreed between May and Barnier in December, everything else since has just been hot air.kle4 said:
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcomekle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
.felix said:
I always thought - as do most voters- that politics was just another word for deceit plus Gieve and Soubry are both lawyers and that is their stock in trade.kle4 said:
If May is prepared to deceive them (which they seem to think she did, even if she would say otherwise) then their previous reluctance to unintentionally engender such an outcome might alter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
A Canada style FTA also does not require FoM
0 -
Whats this power grab Leanne is wittering on about ?
Also seems Mann trusts May more than Grieve does !0 -
Lot of ad hom on Dominic Grieve. Sad.0
-
What’s in it for Canada?brendan16 said:
Perhaps we could opt for freedom of movement with Canada instead and just not bother with more going nowhere negotiations with Barnier and co - after all it would be nice to actually have FOM with a country most Brits would have some interest in moving to!SouthamObserver said:
The government has yet to agree with itself on regulatory alignment. But if it wants a job-destroying, City-harming, Canada-style FTA it can undoubtedly get one.HYUFD said:
The basis of the deal on citizens' rights, the exit bill and regulatory alignment was agreed between May and Barnier in December, everything else since has just been hot air.kle4 said:
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcomekle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
I may be naiive, but even among the murky depths of politics there must be times when you need to trust someone, on your side or another side, and while spin and obfuscation and other tactics are all part of the game, certain behaviours, direct deceipt for instance, will not be regarded as sensible tactics, and will lead to personal disagreements the likes of which will cause some people to behave irrationally out of anger down the line.felix said:
I always thought - as do most voters- that politics was just another word for deceit plus Gieve and Soubry are both lawyers and that is their stock in trade.kle4 said:
If May is prepared to deceive them (which they seem to think she did, even if she would say otherwise) then their previous reluctance to unintentionally engender such an outcome might alter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
A Canada style FTA also does not require FoM
0 -
Blind faith.SouthamObserver said:
What makes you think working class people with jobs in the car, aerospace and similar high-grade manufacturing sectors will see their wages rise?Elliot said:
Some jobs would be lost. Some would be gained. But working class wages will rise and housing unaffordability will slow.SouthamObserver said:
It would not avoid job destruction. The only issue is the scale.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA would respect the Brexit vote to regain sovereignty and restore control over EU immigration while avoiding the job destruction of WTO terms BrexitSouthamObserver said:
The government has yet to agree with itself on regulatory alignment. But if it wants a job-destroying, City-harming, Canada-style FTA it can undoubtedly get one.HYUFD said:
The basis of the deal on citizens' rights, the exit bill and regulatory alignment was agreed between May and Barnier in December, everything else since has just been hot air.kle4 said:
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcomekle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
.felix said:
I always thought - as do most voters- that politics was just another word for deceit plus Gieve and Soubry are both lawyers and that is their stock in trade.kle4 said:
If May is prepared to deceive them (which they seem to think she did, even if she would say otherwise) then their previous reluctance to unintentionally engender such an outcome might alter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
A Canada style FTA also does not require FoM
It’s the bedrock on which Brexit is built.
0 -
It's happening and the Bank is already preparing to lose the Passport. Yet all the banks are hiring at what seems to be record levels. The City isn't the Passport, no matter how much the Commission would have everyone believe.SouthamObserver said:Brexit has yet to happen. A Canada-style FTA will undoubtedly damage the City.
0 -
It looks like Theresa will outlast Leanne.Pulpstar said:Whats this power grab Leanne is wittering on about ?
There has been no advance amongst one of the most useless Governments in Europe for a decade. Eventually, even Plaid Cymru AMs noticed.
0 -
Must have picked up since January.MaxPB said:
It's happening and the Bank is already preparing to lose the Passport. Yet all the banks are hiring at what seems to be record levels. The City isn't the Passport, no matter how much the Commission would have everyone believe.SouthamObserver said:Brexit has yet to happen. A Canada-style FTA will undoubtedly damage the City.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-city-of-london-jobs-market-freefall-number-of-vacancies-hits-sevenyear-low-a8201401.html
0 -
SouthamObserver said:HYUFD said:SouthamObserver said:
I put the economy first staying out of the wretched mess that is the Euro and its inevitable demise over the next 2-3 years. As I've said before, Asia is the future, not Europe. Lets be free to have free trade agreements with everyone to the benefit of the UK, and not hide behind the common external tariff. Polling after the referendum said that 3pc of us voted leave on economic grounds, ie just over 1.5% of the population. I'd like to think that we were the most enlightened section of the electorate if split 6 ways across leave / remain and immigration / sovereignty / economics!HYUFD said:
Some of the 52% put regaining sovereignty and reducing immigration above the economy. Others voted on the basis that there would be no downside to voting Leave.SouthamObserver said:
The 52%HYUFD said:
It would not avoid job destruction. The only issue is the scale.kle4 said:
A Canada style FTA would respect the Brexit vote to regain sovereignty and restore control over EU immigration while avoiding the job destruction of WTO terms BrexitHYUFD said:
The government has yet get one.kle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
The basis of everything else since has just been hot air.felix said:
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.kle4 said:
If May outcomeBig_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
A Canada style FTA also does not require FoM0 -
The top 2 reasons for voting Leave were:SouthamObserver said:
Some of the 52% put regaining sovereignty and reducing immigration above the economy. Others voted on the basis that there would be no downside to voting Leave.HYUFD said:
The 52% of Leave voters put regaining sovereig the Commons has now confirmedSouthamObserver said:
It would not avoid job destruction. The only issue is the scale.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA would respect the Brexit vote to regain sovereignty and restore control over EU immigration while avoiding the job destruction of WTO terms BrexitSouthamObserver said:
The government has yet get one.HYUFD said:
The basis of everything else since has just been hot air.kle4 said:
I think you're optto me.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcomekle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
I mane.felix said:
I always thought - as do h lawyers and that is their stock in trade.kle4 said:
If May is prepared to deceive them (whichengender such an outcome might alter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
A Canada style FTA also does not require FoM
1. 'The principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK'
2. 'Voting to leave offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.'
The top 2 reasons given for voting Remain were:
1. 'The risks of voting to leave the EU looked too great when it came to things like the economy, jobs and prices.'
2. 'Access to the EU single market, while out of the Euro and no borders area, giving best of both worlds.'
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/0 -
hunchman said:SouthamObserver said:HYUFD said:
Though the UK's largest market remains the EU and the second largest market the USA, we have a long way to go before Asia is the number two let alone number 1 destination for UK exportsSouthamObserver said:
I put the economy first staying out of the wretched mess that is the Euro and its inevitable demise over the next 2-3 years. As I've said before, Asia is the future, not Europe. Lets be free to have free trade agreements with everyone to the benefit of the UK, and not hide behind the common external tariff. Polling after the referendum said that 3pc of us voted leave on economic grounds, ie just over 1.5% of the population. I'd like to think that we were the most enlightened section of the electorate if split 6 ways across leave / remain and immigration / sovereignty / economics!HYUFD said:
Some of the 52% put regaining sovereignty and reducing immigration above the economy. Others voted on the basis that there would be no downside to voting Leave.SouthamObserver said:
The 52%HYUFD said:
It would not avoid job destruction. The only issue is the scale.kle4 said:
A Canada style FTA would respect the Brexit vote to regain sovereignty and restore control over EU immigration while avoiding the job destruction of WTO terms BrexitHYUFD said:
The government has yet get one.kle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
The basis of everything else since has just been hot air.felix said:
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.kle4 said:
If May outcomeBig_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
A Canada style FTA also does not require FoM-1 -
And the rebels want Boris do they
If May is prepared to deceive them (which they seem to think she did, even if she would say otherwise) then their previous reluctance to unintentionally engender such an outcome might alter.
I always thought - as do most voters- that politics was just another word for deceit plus Gieve and Soubry are both lawyers and that is their stock in trade.
I may be naiive, but even among the murky depths of politics there must be times when you need to trust someone, on your side or another side, and while spin and obfuscation and other tactics are all part of the game, certain behaviours, direct deceipt for instance, will not be regarded as sensible tactics, and will lead to personal disagreements the likes of which will cause some people to behave irrationally out of anger down the line.
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcome
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.
The basis of the deal on citizens' rights, the exit bill and regulatory alignment was agreed between May and Barnier in December, everything else since has just been hot air.
A Canada style FTA also does not require FoM
The government has yet to agree with itself on regulatory alignment. But if it wants a job-destroying, City-harming, Canada-style FTA it can undoubtedly get one.
Perhaps we could opt for freedom of movement with Canada instead and just not bother with more going nowhere negotiations with Barnier and co - after all it would be nice to actually have FOM with a country most Brits would have some interest in moving to!
What’s in it for Canada?
</blockquote
@dixiedean:
They'd get me back in an instant...so yeah, what IS in it for them?0 -
They underestimated the increased usage of the health service now people no longer had to pay at the point of use.another_richard said:
' When the NHS was launched in 1948, it had a budget of £437 million (roughly £15 billion at today’s value). 'kle4 said:
I'm going to predict some reactions right now - it will be said not to be enough, and we'll have another winter crisis on our hands.Scott_P said:@alexmassie: ‘Borrowing’ and ‘tax’ are doing the heavy lifting here. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1007360201383645184
https://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/thenhs/about/Pages/overview.aspx
I believe that when the NHS was launched its advocates suggested that it would be so successful at improving the nation's health that funding would fall in future years.0 -
Lewisham have always been slow at counting votes. In 1983 they were pretty much the last London seats to declare at about 5am, (IIRC from watching the replay on BBC Parliament).0
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Professor AC Grayling having his usual Brexit whinge on This Week and blaming it on the Russians0
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William Glenn on the TV0
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Grayling (Thymallus thymallus) skewered by Miguel then grilled by Andrew.
Quite delicious.0 -
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Okay, I'll watch it.Sunil_Prasannan said:0 -
That's an odd interpretation. She seems to have vacillated to the last and finally come down on the hard Brexiteer side. You should be pleased, surely? But it would have been more elegant to tell him than to say one thing and do something else.Elliot said:So Theresa May reached out with a compromise to Dominic Grieve and he has turned round and spat in her face. She should just withdraw the whip. He seems intent on destroying his party and letting in Corbyn after all.
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FT chief political correspondent:
"Jim Pickard
@PickardJE
well-placed rumour is that Labour majority in Lewisham East has been slashed thanks to strong surge by the Liberal Democrats"
twitter.com/PickardJE/status/10074010589629440000 -
Instead of threatening pensioners why didn't Theresa May put this in the Con manifesto last year?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/14/theresa-may-poised-give-nhs-4bn-a-year-boost-funded-brexit-dividend/0 -
Given the turnout is only 33 per cent compared to nearly 70 per cent in the 2017 GE isn't it inevitable that the current 21,000 majority will be 'slashed'.AndyJS said:FT chief political correspondent:
"Jim Pickard
@PickardJE
well-placed rumour is that Labour majority in Lewisham East has been slashed thanks to strong surge by the Liberal Democrats"
twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1007401058962944000
In the end Lewisham east will have elected another Labour MP - and a few remainers in Blackheath can feel satisfied they made their safe protest and backed the LDs. And it will change precisely nothing.0 -
Former FBI Director James Comey, who led the investigation into Hillary Clinton's use of personal email while secretary of state, also used his personal email to conduct official business, according to a report from the Justice Department on Thursday.
The Russians and Chinese must piss themselves at this kind of behaviour.0 -
Maybe it's me but has anyone noticed Jeremy Corbyn - or his doppelgänger - appears mid way through the BBCs World Cup opening credits. He appears to be arranging some Russian dolls on the Moscow metro?!0
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They get that through NATO no matter what the UK's status within or without the EU.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Defence0 -
Well until twitter notices...brendan16 said:Maybe it's me but has anyone noticed Jeremy Corbyn - or his doppelgänger - appears mid way through the BBCs World Cup opening credits. He appears to be arranging some Russian dolls on the Moscow metro?!
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Yes, I think we all pretty much assume that outcome. But one never knows.brendan16 said:
Given the turnout is only 33 per cent compared to nearly 70 per cent in the 2017 GE isn't it inevitable that the current 21,000 majority will be 'slashed'.AndyJS said:FT chief political correspondent:
"Jim Pickard
@PickardJE
well-placed rumour is that Labour majority in Lewisham East has been slashed thanks to strong surge by the Liberal Democrats"
twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1007401058962944000
In the end Lewisham east will have elected another Labour MP - and a few remainers in Blackheath can feel satisfied they made their safe protest and backed the LDs. And it will change precisely nothing.0 -
The 33% turnout in the Lewisham East by election is the lowest for a parliamentary by election contested by all the main parties (which was not the case in Batley and Spen) since Sheffield Brightside and Hillsborough in February 2016.brendan16 said:
Given the turnout is only 33 per cent compared to nearly 70 per cent in the 2017 GE isn't it inevitable that the current 21,000 majority will be 'slashed'.AndyJS said:FT chief political correspondent:
"Jim Pickard
@PickardJE
well-placed rumour is that Labour majority in Lewisham East has been slashed thanks to strong surge by the Liberal Democrats"
twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1007401058962944000
In the end Lewisham east will have elected another Labour MP - and a few remainers in Blackheath can feel satisfied they made their safe protest and backed the LDs. And it will change precisely nothing.
Indeed it is lower than the 38% in Stoke South in 2017.
http://www.ukpolitical.info/by-election-turnout.htm0 -
IIRC the Dunfermline by-election caught everyone out, with Labour still expected to hold the seat a few seconds before the declaration was made.0
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By election declaration imminent on Sky now, Labour has won it seems0
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Lewisham East Result
Aboo Green 788
Archer Cons 3161
Daly Labour 11033
Edward Libertarian 38
Hope Looney 93
Kirten UKIP 380
Martin CPA
Reid WEP 506
Salek 5404
Waters For Britain 287
So Labour hold, majority 5000 odd, down but still a clear win and the LDs do take second but not much too dramatic
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Labour majority of 5,629 over the LDs.
The real winner though seems to have been voter apathy.0 -
Yes, that'll do - very comfortable given the low turnout.0
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The LD canvassing prediction was almost spot on once again. It was forecasting Lab 49%, LD 25%, Con 16%, and the result was Lab 50%, LD 25%, Con 14%.0
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To paraphrase Peter Snow, if every seat behaved like this at the next general election the result would be:
Con 327
Lab 208
LD 44
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=34.9&LAB=23.3&LIB=27.8&UKIP=1.9&Green=3.6&NewLAB=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVUKIP=&TVGreen=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=20170 -
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Tory overall majority and that's before boundary changes while the Tories are unpopular in midterms.AndyJS said:To paraphrase Peter Snow, if every seat behaved like this at the next general election the result would be:
Con 327
Lab 208
LD 44
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=34.9&LAB=23.3&LIB=27.8&UKIP=1.9&Green=3.6&NewLAB=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVUKIP=&TVGreen=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=20170 -
Since the huge amount of ramping (not by your good self) about Corbyn needing to resign, etc, etc by the usual suspects.HYUFD said:
Ho-hum, but the LD's can be rightly chuffed. They have done well, but this was a result never in doubt, despite the ejaculate flying earlier,0 -
In terms of vote share, both Labour and Conservatives lost vote share significantly. The Conservatives also lost their previous second place. This suggests to me that the base-line of the last general election, where both Labour and Conservatives benefited from a polarisation of the vote, can now be consigned to the dustbin of history.Sunil_Prasannan said:
It also seems to be the end of the mythical "progressive alliance".0 -
That, or it was a by-election.PClipp said:
In terms of vote share, both Labour and Conservatives lost vote share significantly. The Conservatives also lost their previous second place. This suggests to me that the base-line of the last general election, where both Labour and Conservatives benefited from a polarisation of the vote, can now be consigned to the dustbin of history.Sunil_Prasannan said:
It also seems to be the end of the mythical "progressive alliance".0 -
Don`t be a wet blanket,Mr D !RobD said:
That, or it was a by-election.PClipp said:
In terms of vote share, both Labour and Conservatives lost vote share significantly. The Conservatives also lost their previous second place. This suggests to me that the base-line of the last general election, where both Labour and Conservatives benefited from a polarisation of the vote, can now be consigned to the dustbin of history.Sunil_Prasannan said:
It also seems to be the end of the mythical "progressive alliance".0 -
LibDems - Canvassing Here!AndyJS said:The LD canvassing prediction was almost spot on once again. It was forecasting Lab 49%, LD 25%, Con 16%, and the result was Lab 50%, LD 25%, Con 14%.
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I sense the Great Yellow Beast is stirring from its slumbers and will crush the eurosceptics to dust between the columns of its ravening bar charts.0
This discussion has been closed.