politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A good test of how MPs view Brexit in this vote tomorrow
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A good test of how MPs view Brexit in this vote tomorrow
Do you enjoy big Commons votes? Then you’ll enjoy this tomorrow. Lose – and the government must reveal all its Brexit subcommittee papers! pic.twitter.com/CYIZFbpKWV
Comments
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God I love Parliamentary votes.
I guess this is what taking back control means right?0 -
This House is showing again.0
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I would have thought the hard Brexiteers will vote for this so they can expose the Robbins conspiracy.0
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If the government loses this vote then I anticipate a very awkward time for David Davis and the disgraced Liam Fox.0
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I’m sure the EU Commission would love to read them.0
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Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?0
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Just another Brexit day ....0
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Is it the papers for the bank, the papers for the shareholders, the papers for the employees, the papers for the directors, the papers for the auditors or heaven forbid the actual papers though
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I genuinely don't see the problem with showing them. Indeed 'losing' this vote might actually help May. She could do with some leverage over the hard-right Brexiteer nutters that act as if they run the bloody country.0
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The political Caparo v Dickman?Pulpstar said:Is it the papers for the bank, the papers for the shareholders, the papers for the employees, the papers for the directors, the papers for the auditors or heaven forbid the actual papers though
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What difference will showing these papers actually make other than potentially giving away a bit too much information to the EU0
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The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.rkrkrk said:Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?
And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.
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Theresa May = Charles I
John Bercow = Speak Lenthall
Discuss.0 -
Not sure I get the analogy. Who's she planning to arrest?TheScreamingEagles said:Theresa May = Charles I
John Bercow = Speak Lenthall
Discuss.0 -
Presumably this vote is one reason why the PM wheeled in Tory MPs to downing Street for a briefing yesterday.
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The Tory Rebels but I've had the quote 'May it please your majesty, i have neither eyes to see, nor tongue to speak, in this place, but as the house is pleased to direct me, whose servant I am here; and I humbly ask pardon that I cannot give any other answer to what your majesty is pleased to demand of me' in my head for days.Carolus_Rex said:
Not sure I get the analogy. Who's she planning to arrest?TheScreamingEagles said:Theresa May = Charles I
John Bercow = Speak Lenthall
Discuss.
Seemed apt for this vote.0 -
Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevantFF43 said:
The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.rkrkrk said:Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?
And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.0 -
This is wrong. There is a very strong sovereignty argument against Brexit because it will necessarily involve us having less influence over things that affect us.HYUFD said:
Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevantFF43 said:
The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.rkrkrk said:Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?
And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.0 -
This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.
Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.
The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.
Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.
“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/0 -
What’s the point of negotiation if you just do as the other side tells you?TheScreamingEagles said:This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.
Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.
The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.
Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.
“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/0 -
He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughtyTheScreamingEagles said:This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.
Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.
The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.
Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.
“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/0 -
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Not necessarily, especially if you argue Brexit enables us to gain greater control over our laws and borders and make our own trade dealswilliamglenn said:
This is wrong. There is a very strong sovereignty argument against Brexit because it will necessarily involve us having less influence over things that affect us.HYUFD said:
Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevantFF43 said:
The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.rkrkrk said:Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?
And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.0 -
A good question and one which Leavers should reflect on. When they tried to take back control, they lost Britain much of its power.RobD said:
What’s the point of negotiation if you just do as the other side tells you?TheScreamingEagles said:This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.
Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.
The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.
Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.
“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/0 -
There is a difficult balance here: the public airing of these documents might disadvantage the UK*, but by showing nothing to parliament, it is next to impossible for our representatives to question the executive.RobD said:I’m sure the EU Commission would love to read them.
My solution would be for closed sessions with cross party representatives and a vow of secrecy. (Such secrecy would not have to be permanent - nine to twelve months would probably be sufficient.)
* albeit the EU has been very open in publishing its documentation, which means that all journalists tend to see is the EU side of the story0 -
I suspect Italy will be the dog that didn't bark.HYUFD said:
He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughtyTheScreamingEagles said:This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.
Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.
The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.
Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.
“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/0 -
Both Salvini and Di Maio will certainly demand an easing of Eurozone fiscal rules and tougher immigration policies and with Italy the EU's 4th largest economy and with the EU already coping with the departure of its second largest economy will have much more leeway than Tsipras and the Greeks had to get concessionsrcs1000 said:
I suspect Italy will be the dog that didn't bark.HYUFD said:
He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughtyTheScreamingEagles said:This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.
Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.
The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.
Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.
“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/0 -
Good for them.HYUFD said:
Both Salvini and Di Maio will certainly demand an easing of Eurozone fiscal rules and tougher immigration policies and with Italy the EU's 4th largest economy and with the EU already coping with the departure of its second largest economy will have much more leeway than Tsipras and the Greeks had to get concessionsrcs1000 said:
I suspect Italy will be the dog that didn't bark.HYUFD said:
He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughtyTheScreamingEagles said:This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.
Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.
The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.
Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.
“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/
The issue Italy has is the same one Greece has. The country is deeply split on Euro membership, and it is the opposite split to the UK. Old people have massive Euro denominated savings. (Indeed, Italians' financial assets are the highest of any major Eurozone economy.)
Leaving the Euro means cutting the real value of old people's savings and pensions. And the EU knows this. So, Italy's leverage is limited.0 -
Mr. Eagles, it's indicative of what a poor job May is doing. Procrastination may feel good, but in the end you're just screwing yourself.0
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Perhaps she fell for the hype of the Leavers saying the UK held all the aces in negotiations, that it would be the easiest deal in history.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, it's indicative of what a poor job May is doing. Procrastination may feel good, but in the end you're just screwing yourself.
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It was the young and middle aged who largely voted for Di Maio and Salvini, pensioners were more likely to vote for Berlusconi or Renzi and safety first so the incoming government in Italy will not be so beholden to pensionersrcs1000 said:
Good for them.HYUFD said:
Both Salvini and Di Maio will certainly demand an easing of Eurozone fiscal rules and tougher immigration policies and with Italy the EU's 4th largest economy and with the EU already coping with the departure of its second largest economy will have much more leeway than Tsipras and the Greeks had to get concessionsrcs1000 said:
I suspect Italy will be the dog that didn't bark.HYUFD said:
He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughtyTheScreamingEagles said:This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.
Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.
The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.
Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.
“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/
The issue Italy has is the same one Greece has. The country is deeply split on Euro membership, and it is the opposite split to the UK. Old people have massive Euro denominated savings. (Indeed, Italians' financial assets are the highest of any major Eurozone economy.)
Leaving the Euro means cutting the real value of old people's savings and pensions. And the EU knows this. So, Italy's leverage is limited.0 -
Mr. Eagles, perhaps she's indecisive and lacks judgement.0
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The only rational explanation I can find for Theresa May devoting so much effort into debating options that don't exist is that she is deliberately running down the clock on displacement activity so the UK will be forced at the last minute to accept a Withdrawal Agreement, as is, and containing the NI backstop that she said no British PM could agree to.TheScreamingEagles said:This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.
Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.
The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.
Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.
“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/0 -
0
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I suspect Italy will be the dog that didn't need to bark....rcs1000 said:
I suspect Italy will be the dog that didn't bark.HYUFD said:
He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughtyTheScreamingEagles said:This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.
Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.
The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.
Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.
“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/0 -
Barnier is tactless. Unlike most of the EU people, actually.HYUFD said:
He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughtyTheScreamingEagles said:This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.
Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.
The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.
Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.
“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/0 -
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Parliament is more divided in what it wants than the long parliament at the time, and it was hardly totally united, so how does he represent it's will as well?TheScreamingEagles said:Theresa May = Charles I
John Bercow = Speak Lenthall
Discuss.
If parliament votes May's way, then it will have exercised authority nonetheless, and the analogy falls yet further.0 -
Mr. 43, that's a credible possibility. And wretched.0
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Will Theresa May be the one to do a Gorbachev on the UK? She's clearly someone the EU "can do business with".0
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That would be me then....HYUFD said:
Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevant0 -
Last year I'd have said she was our Konstantin Chernenko.williamglenn said:Will Theresa May be the one to do a Gorbachev on the UK? She's clearly someone the EU "can do business with".
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Is Boris our own Boris Yeltsin?TheScreamingEagles said:
Last year I'd have said she was our Konstantin Chernenko.williamglenn said:Will Theresa May be the one to do a Gorbachev on the UK? She's clearly someone the EU "can do business with".
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Well Yelstin liked a drink, perhaps that's what Amber Rudd meant about Boris not being a chap you can trust to take you home at the end of an evening.MarqueeMark said:
Is Boris our own Boris Yeltsin?TheScreamingEagles said:
Last year I'd have said she was our Konstantin Chernenko.williamglenn said:Will Theresa May be the one to do a Gorbachev on the UK? She's clearly someone the EU "can do business with".
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BBC leading with wedding shenanigans rather than the decent economic figures.0
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PM of an independent England, climbing on a tank to put down a coup from the Moggites?MarqueeMark said:
Is Boris our own Boris Yeltsin?TheScreamingEagles said:
Last year I'd have said she was our Konstantin Chernenko.williamglenn said:Will Theresa May be the one to do a Gorbachev on the UK? She's clearly someone the EU "can do business with".
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How many times can Liam Fox be disgraced?TheScreamingEagles said:If the government loses this vote then I anticipate a very awkward time for David Davis and the disgraced Liam Fox.
The man is a a sleazy (and ugly) motherf*cker!0 -
I'm quite willing and happy to take Meghan Markle up the aisle.tlg86 said:BBC leading with wedding shenanigans rather than the decent economic figures.
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Seriously I bought a new morning suit for my friend's wedding and they've cancelled their wedding so I want to put it to good use.0
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Their press are starting to wonder (again) whether the M5S/Lega deal will actually happen.rcs1000 said:
I suspect Italy will be the dog that didn't bark.HYUFD said:
He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughtyTheScreamingEagles said:This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.
Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.
The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.
Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.
“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/
I think it's still better than 50/50, but ask again in 24 hours.0 -
Charming.murali_s said:
How many times can Liam Fox be disgraced?TheScreamingEagles said:If the government loses this vote then I anticipate a very awkward time for David Davis and the disgraced Liam Fox.
The man is a a sleazy (and ugly) motherf*cker!0 -
@MaxPB ?TheScreamingEagles said:Seriously I bought a new morning suit for my friend's wedding and they've cancelled their wedding so I want to put it to good use.
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It will be a 100 page document. Perhaps it will just repeat "Brexit means Brexit" thousands of times like in Jack Nicholson's novel in "The Shining" before she finally flips and starts wielding her axe. "Here's Theresa!".rottenborough said:0 -
Running around like a headless chicken?TheScreamingEagles said:Theresa May = Charles I
John Bercow = Speak Lenthall
Discuss.0 -
Running around like a headless chicken?TheScreamingEagles said:Theresa May = Charles I
John Bercow = Speak Lenthall
Discuss.0 -
Email for yourcs1000 said:
There is a difficult balance here: the public airing of these documents might disadvantage the UK*, but by showing nothing to parliament, it is next to impossible for our representatives to question the executive.RobD said:I’m sure the EU Commission would love to read them.
My solution would be for closed sessions with cross party representatives and a vow of secrecy. (Such secrecy would not have to be permanent - nine to twelve months would probably be sufficient.)
* albeit the EU has been very open in publishing its documentation, which means that all journalists tend to see is the EU side of the story0 -
"Would you like something to suck on for landing, sir?"TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm quite willing and happy to take Meghan Markle up the aisle.tlg86 said:BBC leading with wedding shenanigans rather than the decent economic figures.
0 -
You jest but the ge2017 manifesto included 18 strong and stables, a handful of not-strong stables and half a dozen smooth and orderly Brexits.Barnesian said:
It will be a 100 page document. Perhaps it will just repeat "Brexit means Brexit" thousands of times like in Jack Nicholson's novel in "The Shining" before she finally flips and starts wielding her axe. "Here's Theresa!".rottenborough said:0 -
All Brexit and no play makes Theresa a dull girlBarnesian said:
It will be a 100 page document. Perhaps it will just repeat "Brexit means Brexit" thousands of times like in Jack Nicholson's novel in "The Shining" before she finally flips and starts wielding her axe. "Here's Theresa!".rottenborough said:
All Brexit and no play makes Theresa a dull girl
All Brexit and no play makes Theresa a dull girl
All Brexit and no play makes Theresa a dull girl
All Brexit and no play
makes Theresa a dull girl
All Brexit and no play
makes Theresa a dull girl
All Brexit and no play
makes Theresa a dull girl
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There are no morning suits. There are morning coats, and non-matching stripy trousers.TheScreamingEagles said:Seriously I bought a new morning suit for my friend's wedding and they've cancelled their wedding so I want to put it to good use.
"It is impossible for an Englishman to get dressed for a wedding without making some other Englishman hate or despise him," as George Bernard Shaw so memorably said.0 -
I've been buying morning suits for years, some of them had matching coats and trousers.Ishmael_Z said:
There are no morning suits. There are morning coats, and non-matching stripy trousers.TheScreamingEagles said:Seriously I bought a new morning suit for my friend's wedding and they've cancelled their wedding so I want to put it to good use.
"It is impossible for an Englishman to get dressed for a wedding without making some other Englishman hate or despise him," as George Bernard Shaw so memorably said.0 -
Mr. Eagles, I sympathise. Is it lime green with purple stripes?0
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Maybe the next shock Daily Mail front page will be attacking MPs for defying the will of Dacre.TheScreamingEagles said:This House is showing again.
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We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.HYUFD said:
Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevantFF43 said:
The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.rkrkrk said:Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?
And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.
That doesn’t make it a good idea.0 -
No, black jacket, grey waistcoat, white shirt, grey tie, and black/grey striped trousers.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, I sympathise. Is it lime green with purple stripes?
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Mr. Eagles, alarmingly sombre. Did the wedding have a black-and-white theme?
Alas, I must be off. Do play nicely, children.0 -
No, I was told not to overshadow the groom or the father of the bride.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, alarmingly sombre. Did the wedding have a black-and-white theme?
Alas, I must be off. Do play nicely, children.
I did that at a recent wedding, the groom isn't a suit wearing chap wore a normal lounge suit, and well me replete with morning suit and knob cane did stand out.0 -
That is the ultimate aim of the globalists though I guess?Casino_Royale said:
We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.HYUFD said:
Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevantFF43 said:
The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.rkrkrk said:Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?
And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.
That doesn’t make it a good idea.0 -
Is the world/aim of Star Trek.GIN1138 said:
That is the ultimate aim of the globalists though I guess?Casino_Royale said:
We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.HYUFD said:
Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevantFF43 said:
The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.rkrkrk said:Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?
And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.
That doesn’t make it a good idea.0 -
Wear it to the Champions’ League Final?TheScreamingEagles said:Seriously I bought a new morning suit for my friend's wedding and they've cancelled their wedding so I want to put it to good use.
0 -
In reality, I suspect the Heads of Terms of the A50 deal are 80%+ there already.FF43 said:
The only rational explanation I can find for Theresa May devoting so much effort into debating options that don't exist is that she is deliberately running down the clock on displacement activity so the UK will be forced at the last minute to accept a Withdrawal Agreement, as is, and containing the NI backstop that she said no British PM could agree to.TheScreamingEagles said:This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.
Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.
The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.
Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.
“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/
What we are seeing now is the political fights and bluster on both sides that are necessary to get it to pass, and stick. We had similar last year with EU citizens rights - where both Barnier and Verhofstadt said the UK had a long long way to go - and it turned out to be a debate between whether these should be 5 years (UK) or 10 years (EU), and was settled at 8 years.0 -
Really quite astonishing figures. Another 197k people in work over the last 3 months when, according to the ONS, there was no growth to talk of. I mean, huh? What on earth is going on? 0.1% growth in the quarter really should have been accompanied by falling employment and an increase in unemployment. We have a 0.6% increase in employment and the only way that can be reconciled with the growth figure is to assess productivity at -0.5%. Does anyone seriously believe this?tlg86 said:BBC leading with wedding shenanigans rather than the decent economic figures.
We now have the highest percentage of those between 16 and 64 in work ever recorded. And that is despite the fact that in the 1970's or 80's many of the 16 year old's would have been in work and they are now all presumably in compulsory education.
Oh and wages are now growing again in real terms.0 -
Any markets open on whether the father-of-the-bride will show up? 0
-
Sadly there can't be charm when sleazy gits like Liam Fox are involved.RobD said:
Charming.murali_s said:
How many times can Liam Fox be disgraced?TheScreamingEagles said:If the government loses this vote then I anticipate a very awkward time for David Davis and the disgraced Liam Fox.
The man is a a sleazy (and ugly) motherf*cker!
This man is our Trade Secretary FFS! Shocking I know!0 -
For the Borg, sure.TheScreamingEagles said:
Is the world/aim of Star Trek.GIN1138 said:
That is the ultimate aim of the globalists though I guess?Casino_Royale said:
We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.HYUFD said:
Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevantFF43 said:
The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.rkrkrk said:Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?
And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.
That doesn’t make it a good idea.0 -
If I were being ungenerous I’d say for a classless society the Americans display a frightful lack of class.GIN1138 said:
But, then again, we can’t choose our families. So far I think Meghan has behaved impeccably.0 -
I have not been following this and won't pretend to know what is going on. But a dad should be at the wedding unless the couple are really strongly opposed. And my vague understanding is that Meghan wants him there.Casino_Royale said:
If I were being ungenerous I’d say for a classless society the Americans display a frightful lack of class.GIN1138 said:
But, then again, we can’t choose our families. So far I think Meghan has behaved impeccably.0 -
Last American to be involved with the Royal's was Wallis... And we all know how that turned out.
0 -
It certainly is for some - many speak of the irrelevance of nations and religions, and believe them to be anachronistic. They instead talk of being citizens of the world, valuing technocracy by the enlightened over popular democracy, maximising economic growth, and worshipping nothing except the unity of humanity, and scientific reason. Star Trek and the Federation has cropped up in more than one conversation I’ve had too.GIN1138 said:
That is the ultimate aim of the globalists though I guess?Casino_Royale said:
We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.HYUFD said:
Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevantFF43 said:
The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.rkrkrk said:Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?
And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.
That doesn’t make it a good idea.
So, it does, taken to its logical conclusion.0 -
For the Federation and Earth too.MaxPB said:
For the Borg, sure.TheScreamingEagles said:
Is the world/aim of Star Trek.GIN1138 said:
That is the ultimate aim of the globalists though I guess?Casino_Royale said:
We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.HYUFD said:
Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevantFF43 said:
The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.rkrkrk said:Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?
And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.
That doesn’t make it a good idea.0 -
Wages growing in real terms is possibly the most significant political factor for the years to come.DavidL said:
Really quite astonishing figures. Another 197k people in work over the last 3 months when, according to the ONS, there was no growth to talk of. I mean, huh? What on earth is going on? 0.1% growth in the quarter really should have been accompanied by falling employment and an increase in unemployment. We have a 0.6% increase in employment and the only way that can be reconciled with the growth figure is to assess productivity at -0.5%. Does anyone seriously believe this?tlg86 said:BBC leading with wedding shenanigans rather than the decent economic figures.
We now have the highest percentage of those between 16 and 64 in work ever recorded. And that is despite the fact that in the 1970's or 80's many of the 16 year old's would have been in work and they are now all presumably in compulsory education.
Oh and wages are now growing again in real terms.
It depends how, where and who whoever, and whether people feel it in the pocket. But, if they do, many of those who voted for Brexit will feel vindicated.0 -
I agree. I think it’d be very sad if he wasn’t.DavidL said:
I have not been following this and won't pretend to know what is going on. But a dad should be at the wedding unless the couple are really strongly opposed. And my vague understanding is that Meghan wants him there.Casino_Royale said:
If I were being ungenerous I’d say for a classless society the Americans display a frightful lack of class.GIN1138 said:
But, then again, we can’t choose our families. So far I think Meghan has behaved impeccably.
But, if one is not used to the limelight, it must also be terrifying. I’d be very nervous if I had 600 million eyes on me.
It’s nerve-racking enough getting married in front of all your friends and family as it is.0 -
You can see the effect of a later start to working in that male employment percentage in the 16-64 age group is still lower than it was for every month of the 1970s and much of the 1980s:DavidL said:
Really quite astonishing figures. Another 197k people in work over the last 3 months when, according to the ONS, there was no growth to talk of. I mean, huh? What on earth is going on? 0.1% growth in the quarter really should have been accompanied by falling employment and an increase in unemployment. We have a 0.6% increase in employment and the only way that can be reconciled with the growth figure is to assess productivity at -0.5%. Does anyone seriously believe this?tlg86 said:BBC leading with wedding shenanigans rather than the decent economic figures.
We now have the highest percentage of those between 16 and 64 in work ever recorded. And that is despite the fact that in the 1970's or 80's many of the 16 year old's would have been in work and they are now all presumably in compulsory education.
Oh and wages are now growing again in real terms.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/timeseries/mgsv/lms
The thing I found most interesting was that there were only 96,000 redundancies in 2018q1:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/redundancies/timeseries/beao/lms
I would have expected there to be some feed through by now of redundancies in the retail and restaurant sectors.0 -
Especially as most of Africa, South Asia, Eastern Europe and Latin America would try and cram into North America, Western Europe, the Far East and Oceania putting huge strain on resources and housing and services. While trying to set interest rates and fiscal management for a global economy covering Somalia and Switzerland would be a nightmareCasino_Royale said:
We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.HYUFD said:
Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevantFF43 said:
The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.rkrkrk said:Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?
And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.
That doesn’t make it a good idea.0 -
-
The FT reports the decline in productivity, if that's what you had in mind, and that Sajid Javid has turned up 63 wrongly-deported Windrush migrants.tlg86 said:BBC leading with wedding shenanigans rather than the decent economic figures.
0 -
I think it’s as naive an idea as global socialism, and ignores fundamentals of human nature.HYUFD said:
Especially as most of Africa, South Asia, Eastern Europe and Latin America would try and cram into North America, Western Europe, the Far East and Oceania putting huge strain on resources and housing and services. While trying to set interest rates and fiscal management for a global economy covering Somalia and Switzerland would be a nightmareCasino_Royale said:
We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.HYUFD said:
Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevantFF43 said:
The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.rkrkrk said:Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?
And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.
That doesn’t make it a good idea.
I also think a monopoly of governance and regulation is as bad an idea in the public sphere as it is in the private.
Competition between nations and governments can be very beneficial.0 -
There is a replacement for Meghan's dad:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/im-your-father-now-trump-tells-meghan-201805151648680 -
We'll see: concentrated losses and distributed gains does not a confident government make.HYUFD said:
It was the young and middle aged who largely voted for Di Maio and Salvini, pensioners were more likely to vote for Berlusconi or Renzi and safety first so the incoming government in Italy will not be so beholden to pensionersrcs1000 said:
Good for them.HYUFD said:
Both Salvini and Di Maio will certainly demand an easing of Eurozone fiscal rules and tougher immigration policies and with Italy the EU's 4th largest economy and with the EU already coping with the departure of its second largest economy will have much more leeway than Tsipras and the Greeks had to get concessionsrcs1000 said:
I suspect Italy will be the dog that didn't bark.HYUFD said:
He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughtyTheScreamingEagles said:This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.
Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.
The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.
Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.
“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/
The issue Italy has is the same one Greece has. The country is deeply split on Euro membership, and it is the opposite split to the UK. Old people have massive Euro denominated savings. (Indeed, Italians' financial assets are the highest of any major Eurozone economy.)
Leaving the Euro means cutting the real value of old people's savings and pensions. And the EU knows this. So, Italy's leverage is limited.0 -
The latest Italian poll has M5S unchanged from the general election on 32% but Lega Nord up 8% from 17% to 25% so it does look like a M5S and Lega Nord deal is the only show in townPro_Rata said:
Their press are starting to wonder (again) whether the M5S/Lega deal will actually happen.rcs1000 said:
I suspect Italy will be the dog that didn't bark.HYUFD said:
He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughtyTheScreamingEagles said:This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.
Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.
The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.
Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.
“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/
I think it's still better than 50/50, but ask again in 24 hours.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Italian_general_election0 -
Who's your daddy?Verulamius said:There is a replacement for Meghan's dad:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/im-your-father-now-trump-tells-meghan-201805151648680 -
Though this new populist government would have a big mandate for change and its voters will expect to see it deliveredrcs1000 said:
We'll see: concentrated losses and distributed gains does not a confident government make.HYUFD said:
It was the young and middle aged who largely voted for Di Maio and Salvini, pensioners were more likely to vote for Berlusconi or Renzi and safety first so the incoming government in Italy will not be so beholden to pensionersrcs1000 said:
Good for them.HYUFD said:
Both Salvini and Di Maio will certainly demand an easing of Eurozone fiscal rules and tougher immigration policies and with Italy the EU's 4th largest economy and with the EU already coping with the departure of its second largest economy will have much more leeway than Tsipras and the Greeks had to get concessionsrcs1000 said:
I suspect Italy will be the dog that didn't bark.HYUFD said:
He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughtyTheScreamingEagles said:This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.
Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.
The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.
Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.
“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/
The issue Italy has is the same one Greece has. The country is deeply split on Euro membership, and it is the opposite split to the UK. Old people have massive Euro denominated savings. (Indeed, Italians' financial assets are the highest of any major Eurozone economy.)
Leaving the Euro means cutting the real value of old people's savings and pensions. And the EU knows this. So, Italy's leverage is limited.0 -
Which is why it will always be there.Casino_Royale said:
I think it’s as naive an idea as global socialism, and ignores fundamentals of human nature.HYUFD said:
Especially as most of Africa, South Asia, Eastern Europe and Latin America would try and cram into North America, Western Europe, the Far East and Oceania putting huge strain on resources and housing and services. While trying to set interest rates and fiscal management for a global economy covering Somalia and Switzerland would be a nightmareCasino_Royale said:
We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.HYUFD said:
Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevantFF43 said:
The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.rkrkrk said:Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?
And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.
That doesn’t make it a good idea.
I also think a monopoly of governance and regulation is as bad an idea in the public sphere as it is in the private.
Competition between nations and governments can be very beneficial.
The UN is the closest we have to a global government and it is fair to say it is not exactly a dynamic organisation0 -
As Garak observed, the Federation is insidious. The difference between the two isn't as much as people like to make out.TheScreamingEagles said:
For the Federation and Earth too.MaxPB said:
For the Borg, sure.TheScreamingEagles said:
Is the world/aim of Star Trek.GIN1138 said:
That is the ultimate aim of the globalists though I guess?Casino_Royale said:
We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.HYUFD said:
Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevantFF43 said:
The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.rkrkrk said:Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?
And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.
That doesn’t make it a good idea.
I definitely prefer the Klingons and Cardassians to the Federation. Though DS9 Federation is much more interesting than TNG or VOY.0 -
If we ever advanced that far, and needed interplanetary relations, then something like an Earth federation would be perfectly feasible, even likely.MaxPB said:
As Garak observed, the Federation is insidious. The difference between the two isn't as much as people like to make out.TheScreamingEagles said:
For the Federation and Earth too.MaxPB said:
For the Borg, sure.TheScreamingEagles said:
Is the world/aim of Star Trek.GIN1138 said:
That is the ultimate aim of the globalists though I guess?Casino_Royale said:
We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.HYUFD said:
Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevantFF43 said:
The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.rkrkrk said:Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?
And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.
That doesn’t make it a good idea.
I definitely prefer the Klingons and Cardassians to the Federation. Though DS9 Federation is much more interesting than TNG or VOY.
However, I’d expect it to deal with things like agreeing rules for interplanetary trade with other planets, global space defence, and interspecies relations and I’d expect it to do it though nation states on earth.
I wouldn’t expect it to fully replace domestic governments, or normal foreign policy relations between nation states on earth, still less globalise tax, health, education and social policy as Star Trek implies.0
