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Do you enjoy big Commons votes? Then you’ll enjoy this tomorrow. Lose – and the government must reveal all its Brexit subcommittee papers! pic.twitter.com/CYIZFbpKWV

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TheScreamingEagles

God I love Parliamentary votes.

I guess this is what taking back control means right?

TheScreamingEagles

This House is showing again.

williamglenn

I would have thought the hard Brexiteers will vote for this so they can expose the Robbins conspiracy.

TheScreamingEagles

If the government loses this vote then I anticipate a very awkward time for David Davis and the disgraced Liam Fox.

RobD

I’m sure the EU Commission would love to read them.

rkrkrk

Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?

Beverley_C

Just another Brexit day ....

Pulpstar

Is it the papers for the bank, the papers for the shareholders, the papers for the employees, the papers for the directors, the papers for the auditors or heaven forbid the actual papers though ?

Anazina

I genuinely don't see the problem with showing them. Indeed 'losing' this vote might actually help May. She could do with some leverage over the hard-right Brexiteer nutters that act as if they run the bloody country.

TheScreamingEagles

Pulpstar said:

Is it the papers for the bank, the papers for the shareholders, the papers for the employees, the papers for the directors, the papers for the auditors or heaven forbid the actual papers though ?

The political Caparo v Dickman?

HYUFD

What difference will showing these papers actually make other than potentially giving away a bit too much information to the EU

FF43

rkrkrk said:

Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?

The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.

And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.

TheScreamingEagles

Theresa May = Charles I

John Bercow = Speak Lenthall

Discuss.

Carolus_Rex

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May = Charles I

John Bercow = Speak Lenthall

Discuss.

Not sure I get the analogy. Who's she planning to arrest?

partypoliticalorphan

Presumably this vote is one reason why the PM wheeled in Tory MPs to downing Street for a briefing yesterday.

TheScreamingEagles

Carolus_Rex said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May = Charles I

John Bercow = Speak Lenthall

Discuss.

Not sure I get the analogy. Who's she planning to arrest?

The Tory Rebels but I've had the quote 'May it please your majesty, i have neither eyes to see, nor tongue to speak, in this place, but as the house is pleased to direct me, whose servant I am here; and I humbly ask pardon that I cannot give any other answer to what your majesty is pleased to demand of me' in my head for days.

Seemed apt for this vote.

HYUFD

FF43 said:

rkrkrk said:

Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?

The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.

And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.

Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevant

williamglenn

HYUFD said:

FF43 said:

rkrkrk said:

Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?

The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.

And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.

Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevant

This is wrong. There is a very strong sovereignty argument against Brexit because it will necessarily involve us having less influence over things that affect us.

TheScreamingEagles

This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.

Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.

Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.

“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/

RobD

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.

Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.

Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.

“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/

What’s the point of negotiation if you just do as the other side tells you?

HYUFD

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.

Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.

Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.

“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/

He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughty

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/996422179670683648

HYUFD

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

FF43 said:

rkrkrk said:

Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?

The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.

And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.

Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevant

This is wrong. There is a very strong sovereignty argument against Brexit because it will necessarily involve us having less influence over things that affect us.

Not necessarily, especially if you argue Brexit enables us to gain greater control over our laws and borders and make our own trade deals

AlastairMeeks

RobD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.

Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.

Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.

“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/

What’s the point of negotiation if you just do as the other side tells you?

A good question and one which Leavers should reflect on. When they tried to take back control, they lost Britain much of its power.

rcs1000

RobD said:

I’m sure the EU Commission would love to read them.

There is a difficult balance here: the public airing of these documents might disadvantage the UK*, but by showing nothing to parliament, it is next to impossible for our representatives to question the executive.

My solution would be for closed sessions with cross party representatives and a vow of secrecy. (Such secrecy would not have to be permanent - nine to twelve months would probably be sufficient.)

* albeit the EU has been very open in publishing its documentation, which means that all journalists tend to see is the EU side of the story

rcs1000

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.

Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.

Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.

“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/

He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughty

I suspect Italy will be the dog that didn't bark.

HYUFD

rcs1000 said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.

Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.

Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.

“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/

He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughty

I suspect Italy will be the dog that didn't bark.

Both Salvini and Di Maio will certainly demand an easing of Eurozone fiscal rules and tougher immigration policies and with Italy the EU's 4th largest economy and with the EU already coping with the departure of its second largest economy will have much more leeway than Tsipras and the Greeks had to get concessions

rcs1000

HYUFD said:

rcs1000 said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.

Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.

Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.

“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/

He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughty

I suspect Italy will be the dog that didn't bark.

Both Salvini and Di Maio will certainly demand an easing of Eurozone fiscal rules and tougher immigration policies and with Italy the EU's 4th largest economy and with the EU already coping with the departure of its second largest economy will have much more leeway than Tsipras and the Greeks had to get concessions

Good for them.

The issue Italy has is the same one Greece has. The country is deeply split on Euro membership, and it is the opposite split to the UK. Old people have massive Euro denominated savings. (Indeed, Italians' financial assets are the highest of any major Eurozone economy.)

Leaving the Euro means cutting the real value of old people's savings and pensions. And the EU knows this. So, Italy's leverage is limited.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Eagles, it's indicative of what a poor job May is doing. Procrastination may feel good, but in the end you're just screwing yourself.

TheScreamingEagles

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Eagles, it's indicative of what a poor job May is doing. Procrastination may feel good, but in the end you're just screwing yourself.

Perhaps she fell for the hype of the Leavers saying the UK held all the aces in negotiations, that it would be the easiest deal in history.

HYUFD

rcs1000 said:

HYUFD said:

rcs1000 said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.

Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.

Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.

“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/

He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughty

I suspect Italy will be the dog that didn't bark.

Both Salvini and Di Maio will certainly demand an easing of Eurozone fiscal rules and tougher immigration policies and with Italy the EU's 4th largest economy and with the EU already coping with the departure of its second largest economy will have much more leeway than Tsipras and the Greeks had to get concessions

Good for them.

The issue Italy has is the same one Greece has. The country is deeply split on Euro membership, and it is the opposite split to the UK. Old people have massive Euro denominated savings. (Indeed, Italians' financial assets are the highest of any major Eurozone economy.)

Leaving the Euro means cutting the real value of old people's savings and pensions. And the EU knows this. So, Italy's leverage is limited.

It was the young and middle aged who largely voted for Di Maio and Salvini, pensioners were more likely to vote for Berlusconi or Renzi and safety first so the incoming government in Italy will not be so beholden to pensioners

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Eagles, perhaps she's indecisive and lacks judgement.

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/996428465187454976

FF43

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.

Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.

Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.

“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/

The only rational explanation I can find for Theresa May devoting so much effort into debating options that don't exist is that she is deliberately running down the clock on displacement activity so the UK will be forced at the last minute to accept a Withdrawal Agreement, as is, and containing the NI backstop that she said no British PM could agree to.

rottenborough

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/996428465187454976

I assume it will just say 'Brexit means Brexit'.

MarqueeMark

rcs1000 said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.

Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.

Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.

“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/

He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughty

I suspect Italy will be the dog that didn't bark.

I suspect Italy will be the dog that didn't need to bark....

FF43

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.

Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.

Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.

“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/

He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughty

Barnier is tactless. Unlike most of the EU people, actually.

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/996429259488055296

kle4

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May = Charles I

John Bercow = Speak Lenthall

Discuss.

Parliament is more divided in what it wants than the long parliament at the time, and it was hardly totally united, so how does he represent it's will as well?

If parliament votes May's way, then it will have exercised authority nonetheless, and the analogy falls yet further.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. 43, that's a credible possibility. And wretched.

williamglenn

Will Theresa May be the one to do a Gorbachev on the UK? She's clearly someone the EU "can do business with".

Beverley_C

HYUFD said:

Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevant

That would be me then....

TheScreamingEagles

williamglenn said:

Will Theresa May be the one to do a Gorbachev on the UK? She's clearly someone the EU "can do business with".

Last year I'd have said she was our Konstantin Chernenko.

MarqueeMark

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

Will Theresa May be the one to do a Gorbachev on the UK? She's clearly someone the EU "can do business with".

Last year I'd have said she was our Konstantin Chernenko.

Is Boris our own Boris Yeltsin?

TheScreamingEagles

MarqueeMark said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

Will Theresa May be the one to do a Gorbachev on the UK? She's clearly someone the EU "can do business with".

Last year I'd have said she was our Konstantin Chernenko.

Is Boris our own Boris Yeltsin?

Well Yelstin liked a drink, perhaps that's what Amber Rudd meant about Boris not being a chap you can trust to take you home at the end of an evening.

tlg86

BBC leading with wedding shenanigans rather than the decent economic figures.

williamglenn

MarqueeMark said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

Will Theresa May be the one to do a Gorbachev on the UK? She's clearly someone the EU "can do business with".

Last year I'd have said she was our Konstantin Chernenko.

Is Boris our own Boris Yeltsin?

PM of an independent England, climbing on a tank to put down a coup from the Moggites?

murali_s

TheScreamingEagles said:

If the government loses this vote then I anticipate a very awkward time for David Davis and the disgraced Liam Fox.

How many times can Liam Fox be disgraced?

The man is a a sleazy (and ugly) motherf*cker!

TheScreamingEagles

tlg86 said:

BBC leading with wedding shenanigans rather than the decent economic figures.

I'm quite willing and happy to take Meghan Markle up the aisle.

TheScreamingEagles

Seriously I bought a new morning suit for my friend's wedding and they've cancelled their wedding so I want to put it to good use.

Pro_Rata

rcs1000 said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.

Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.

Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.

“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/

He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughty

I suspect Italy will be the dog that didn't bark.

Their press are starting to wonder (again) whether the M5S/Lega deal will actually happen.

I think it's still better than 50/50, but ask again in 24 hours.

RobD

murali_s said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

If the government loses this vote then I anticipate a very awkward time for David Davis and the disgraced Liam Fox.

How many times can Liam Fox be disgraced?

The man is a a sleazy (and ugly) motherf*cker!

Charming.

Rexel56

TheScreamingEagles said:

Seriously I bought a new morning suit for my friend's wedding and they've cancelled their wedding so I want to put it to good use.

@MaxPB ?

Barnesian

rottenborough said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/996428465187454976

I assume it will just say 'Brexit means Brexit'.

It will be a 100 page document. Perhaps it will just repeat "Brexit means Brexit" thousands of times like in Jack Nicholson's novel in "The Shining" before she finally flips and starts wielding her axe. "Here's Theresa!".

Charles

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May = Charles I

John Bercow = Speak Lenthall

Discuss.

Running around like a headless chicken?

Charles

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May = Charles I

John Bercow = Speak Lenthall

Discuss.

Running around like a headless chicken?

Charles

rcs1000 said:

RobD said:

I’m sure the EU Commission would love to read them.

There is a difficult balance here: the public airing of these documents might disadvantage the UK*, but by showing nothing to parliament, it is next to impossible for our representatives to question the executive.

My solution would be for closed sessions with cross party representatives and a vow of secrecy. (Such secrecy would not have to be permanent - nine to twelve months would probably be sufficient.)

* albeit the EU has been very open in publishing its documentation, which means that all journalists tend to see is the EU side of the story

Email for you

Sunil_Prasannan

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

BBC leading with wedding shenanigans rather than the decent economic figures.

I'm quite willing and happy to take Meghan Markle up the aisle.

"Would you like something to suck on for landing, sir?"

DecrepitJohnL

Barnesian said:

rottenborough said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/996428465187454976

I assume it will just say 'Brexit means Brexit'.

It will be a 100 page document. Perhaps it will just repeat "Brexit means Brexit" thousands of times like in Jack Nicholson's novel in "The Shining" before she finally flips and starts wielding her axe. "Here's Theresa!".

You jest but the ge2017 manifesto included 18 strong and stables, a handful of not-strong stables and half a dozen smooth and orderly Brexits.

Sunil_Prasannan

Barnesian said:

rottenborough said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/996428465187454976

I assume it will just say 'Brexit means Brexit'.

It will be a 100 page document. Perhaps it will just repeat "Brexit means Brexit" thousands of times like in Jack Nicholson's novel in "The Shining" before she finally flips and starts wielding her axe. "Here's Theresa!".

All Brexit and no play makes Theresa a dull girl
All Brexit and no play makes Theresa a dull girl
All Brexit and no play makes Theresa a dull girl
All Brexit and no play makes Theresa a dull girl

All Brexit and no play
makes Theresa a dull girl
All Brexit and no play
makes Theresa a dull girl
All Brexit and no play
makes Theresa a dull girl

Ishmael_Z

TheScreamingEagles said:

Seriously I bought a new morning suit for my friend's wedding and they've cancelled their wedding so I want to put it to good use.

There are no morning suits. There are morning coats, and non-matching stripy trousers.

"It is impossible for an Englishman to get dressed for a wedding without making some other Englishman hate or despise him," as George Bernard Shaw so memorably said.

TheScreamingEagles

Ishmael_Z said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Seriously I bought a new morning suit for my friend's wedding and they've cancelled their wedding so I want to put it to good use.

There are no morning suits. There are morning coats, and non-matching stripy trousers.

"It is impossible for an Englishman to get dressed for a wedding without making some other Englishman hate or despise him," as George Bernard Shaw so memorably said.

I've been buying morning suits for years, some of them had matching coats and trousers.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Eagles, I sympathise. Is it lime green with purple stripes?

GIN1138

tlg86 said:

BBC leading with wedding shenanigans rather than the decent economic figures.

Despite Brexit?

MikeSmithson

TheScreamingEagles said:

This House is showing again.

Maybe the next shock Daily Mail front page will be attacking MPs for defying the will of Dacre.

Casino_Royale

HYUFD said:

FF43 said:

rkrkrk said:

Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?

The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.

And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.

Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevant

We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.

That doesn’t make it a good idea.

TheScreamingEagles

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Eagles, I sympathise. Is it lime green with purple stripes?

No, black jacket, grey waistcoat, white shirt, grey tie, and black/grey striped trousers.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Eagles, alarmingly sombre. Did the wedding have a black-and-white theme?

Alas, I must be off. Do play nicely, children.

TheScreamingEagles

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Eagles, alarmingly sombre. Did the wedding have a black-and-white theme?

Alas, I must be off. Do play nicely, children.

No, I was told not to overshadow the groom or the father of the bride.

I did that at a recent wedding, the groom isn't a suit wearing chap wore a normal lounge suit, and well me replete with morning suit and knob cane did stand out.

GIN1138

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

FF43 said:

rkrkrk said:

Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?

The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.

And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.

Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevant

We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.

That doesn’t make it a good idea.

That is the ultimate aim of the globalists though I guess?

TheScreamingEagles

GIN1138 said:

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

FF43 said:

rkrkrk said:

Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?

The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.

And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.

Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevant

We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.

That doesn’t make it a good idea.

That is the ultimate aim of the globalists though I guess?

Is the world/aim of Star Trek.

Sandpit

TheScreamingEagles said:

Seriously I bought a new morning suit for my friend's wedding and they've cancelled their wedding so I want to put it to good use.

Wear it to the Champions’ League Final?

Casino_Royale

FF43 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.

Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.

Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.

“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/

The only rational explanation I can find for Theresa May devoting so much effort into debating options that don't exist is that she is deliberately running down the clock on displacement activity so the UK will be forced at the last minute to accept a Withdrawal Agreement, as is, and containing the NI backstop that she said no British PM could agree to.

In reality, I suspect the Heads of Terms of the A50 deal are 80%+ there already.

What we are seeing now is the political fights and bluster on both sides that are necessary to get it to pass, and stick. We had similar last year with EU citizens rights - where both Barnier and Verhofstadt said the UK had a long long way to go - and it turned out to be a debate between whether these should be 5 years (UK) or 10 years (EU), and was settled at 8 years.

DavidL

tlg86 said:

BBC leading with wedding shenanigans rather than the decent economic figures.

Really quite astonishing figures. Another 197k people in work over the last 3 months when, according to the ONS, there was no growth to talk of. I mean, huh? What on earth is going on? 0.1% growth in the quarter really should have been accompanied by falling employment and an increase in unemployment. We have a 0.6% increase in employment and the only way that can be reconciled with the growth figure is to assess productivity at -0.5%. Does anyone seriously believe this?

We now have the highest percentage of those between 16 and 64 in work ever recorded. And that is despite the fact that in the 1970's or 80's many of the 16 year old's would have been in work and they are now all presumably in compulsory education.

Oh and wages are now growing again in real terms.

GIN1138

Any markets open on whether the father-of-the-bride will show up?

DavidL

GIN1138 said:

Any markets open on whether the father-of-the-bride will show up?

I hope he does. Its not a day that any father should miss.

murali_s

RobD said:

murali_s said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

If the government loses this vote then I anticipate a very awkward time for David Davis and the disgraced Liam Fox.

How many times can Liam Fox be disgraced?

The man is a a sleazy (and ugly) motherf*cker!

Charming.

Sadly there can't be charm when sleazy gits like Liam Fox are involved.

This man is our Trade Secretary FFS! Shocking I know!

GIN1138

DavidL said:

GIN1138 said:

Any markets open on whether the father-of-the-bride will show up?

I hope he does. Its not a day that any father should miss.

Course he'll show up.

He's just a typical self-absorbed American... Making it all about him.

MaxPB

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

FF43 said:

rkrkrk said:

Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?

The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.

And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.

Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevant

We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.

That doesn’t make it a good idea.

That is the ultimate aim of the globalists though I guess?

Is the world/aim of Star Trek.

For the Borg, sure.

Casino_Royale

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

GIN1138 said:

Any markets open on whether the father-of-the-bride will show up?

I hope he does. Its not a day that any father should miss.

Course he'll show up.

He's just a typical self-absorbed American... Making it all about him.

If I were being ungenerous I’d say for a classless society the Americans display a frightful lack of class.

But, then again, we can’t choose our families. So far I think Meghan has behaved impeccably.

DavidL

Casino_Royale said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

GIN1138 said:

Any markets open on whether the father-of-the-bride will show up?

I hope he does. Its not a day that any father should miss.

Course he'll show up.

He's just a typical self-absorbed American... Making it all about him.

If I were being ungenerous I’d say for a classless society the Americans display a frightful lack of class.

But, then again, we can’t choose our families. So far I think Meghan has behaved impeccably.

I have not been following this and won't pretend to know what is going on. But a dad should be at the wedding unless the couple are really strongly opposed. And my vague understanding is that Meghan wants him there.

GIN1138

Last American to be involved with the Royal's was Wallis... And we all know how that turned out.

Casino_Royale

GIN1138 said:

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

FF43 said:

rkrkrk said:

Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?

The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.

And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.

Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevant

We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.

That doesn’t make it a good idea.

That is the ultimate aim of the globalists though I guess?

It certainly is for some - many speak of the irrelevance of nations and religions, and believe them to be anachronistic. They instead talk of being citizens of the world, valuing technocracy by the enlightened over popular democracy, maximising economic growth, and worshipping nothing except the unity of humanity, and scientific reason. Star Trek and the Federation has cropped up in more than one conversation I’ve had too.

So, it does, taken to its logical conclusion.

TheScreamingEagles

MaxPB said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

FF43 said:

rkrkrk said:

Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?

The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.

And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.

Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevant

We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.

That doesn’t make it a good idea.

That is the ultimate aim of the globalists though I guess?

Is the world/aim of Star Trek.

For the Borg, sure.

For the Federation and Earth too.

Casino_Royale

DavidL said:

tlg86 said:

BBC leading with wedding shenanigans rather than the decent economic figures.

Really quite astonishing figures. Another 197k people in work over the last 3 months when, according to the ONS, there was no growth to talk of. I mean, huh? What on earth is going on? 0.1% growth in the quarter really should have been accompanied by falling employment and an increase in unemployment. We have a 0.6% increase in employment and the only way that can be reconciled with the growth figure is to assess productivity at -0.5%. Does anyone seriously believe this?

We now have the highest percentage of those between 16 and 64 in work ever recorded. And that is despite the fact that in the 1970's or 80's many of the 16 year old's would have been in work and they are now all presumably in compulsory education.

Oh and wages are now growing again in real terms.

Wages growing in real terms is possibly the most significant political factor for the years to come.

It depends how, where and who whoever, and whether people feel it in the pocket. But, if they do, many of those who voted for Brexit will feel vindicated.

Foxy

GIN1138 said:

Last American to be involved with the Royal's was Wallis... And we all know how that turned out.

There was Koo Stark too. Still on good terms with Andrew, I believe.

Casino_Royale

DavidL said:

Casino_Royale said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

GIN1138 said:

Any markets open on whether the father-of-the-bride will show up?

I hope he does. Its not a day that any father should miss.

Course he'll show up.

He's just a typical self-absorbed American... Making it all about him.

If I were being ungenerous I’d say for a classless society the Americans display a frightful lack of class.

But, then again, we can’t choose our families. So far I think Meghan has behaved impeccably.

I have not been following this and won't pretend to know what is going on. But a dad should be at the wedding unless the couple are really strongly opposed. And my vague understanding is that Meghan wants him there.

I agree. I think it’d be very sad if he wasn’t.

But, if one is not used to the limelight, it must also be terrifying. I’d be very nervous if I had 600 million eyes on me.

It’s nerve-racking enough getting married in front of all your friends and family as it is.

another_richard

DavidL said:

tlg86 said:

BBC leading with wedding shenanigans rather than the decent economic figures.

Really quite astonishing figures. Another 197k people in work over the last 3 months when, according to the ONS, there was no growth to talk of. I mean, huh? What on earth is going on? 0.1% growth in the quarter really should have been accompanied by falling employment and an increase in unemployment. We have a 0.6% increase in employment and the only way that can be reconciled with the growth figure is to assess productivity at -0.5%. Does anyone seriously believe this?

We now have the highest percentage of those between 16 and 64 in work ever recorded. And that is despite the fact that in the 1970's or 80's many of the 16 year old's would have been in work and they are now all presumably in compulsory education.

Oh and wages are now growing again in real terms.

You can see the effect of a later start to working in that male employment percentage in the 16-64 age group is still lower than it was for every month of the 1970s and much of the 1980s:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/timeseries/mgsv/lms

The thing I found most interesting was that there were only 96,000 redundancies in 2018q1:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/redundancies/timeseries/beao/lms

I would have expected there to be some feed through by now of redundancies in the retail and restaurant sectors.

HYUFD

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

FF43 said:

rkrkrk said:

Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?

The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.

And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.

Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevant

We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.

That doesn’t make it a good idea.

Especially as most of Africa, South Asia, Eastern Europe and Latin America would try and cram into North America, Western Europe, the Far East and Oceania putting huge strain on resources and housing and services. While trying to set interest rates and fiscal management for a global economy covering Somalia and Switzerland would be a nightmare

williamglenn

Foxy said:

GIN1138 said:

Last American to be involved with the Royal's was Wallis... And we all know how that turned out.

There was Koo Stark too. Still on good terms with Andrew, I believe.

There was Fergie's toe-sucker as well.

DecrepitJohnL

tlg86 said:

BBC leading with wedding shenanigans rather than the decent economic figures.

The FT reports the decline in productivity, if that's what you had in mind, and that Sajid Javid has turned up 63 wrongly-deported Windrush migrants.

Casino_Royale

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

FF43 said:

rkrkrk said:

Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?

The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.

And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.

Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevant

We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.

That doesn’t make it a good idea.

Especially as most of Africa, South Asia, Eastern Europe and Latin America would try and cram into North America, Western Europe, the Far East and Oceania putting huge strain on resources and housing and services. While trying to set interest rates and fiscal management for a global economy covering Somalia and Switzerland would be a nightmare

I think it’s as naive an idea as global socialism, and ignores fundamentals of human nature.

I also think a monopoly of governance and regulation is as bad an idea in the public sphere as it is in the private.

Competition between nations and governments can be very beneficial.

Verulamius

There is a replacement for Meghan's dad:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/im-your-father-now-trump-tells-meghan-20180515164868

rcs1000

HYUFD said:

rcs1000 said:

HYUFD said:

rcs1000 said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.

Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.

Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.

“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/

He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughty

I suspect Italy will be the dog that didn't bark.

Both Salvini and Di Maio will certainly demand an easing of Eurozone fiscal rules and tougher immigration policies and with Italy the EU's 4th largest economy and with the EU already coping with the departure of its second largest economy will have much more leeway than Tsipras and the Greeks had to get concessions

Good for them.

The issue Italy has is the same one Greece has. The country is deeply split on Euro membership, and it is the opposite split to the UK. Old people have massive Euro denominated savings. (Indeed, Italians' financial assets are the highest of any major Eurozone economy.)

Leaving the Euro means cutting the real value of old people's savings and pensions. And the EU knows this. So, Italy's leverage is limited.

It was the young and middle aged who largely voted for Di Maio and Salvini, pensioners were more likely to vote for Berlusconi or Renzi and safety first so the incoming government in Italy will not be so beholden to pensioners

We'll see: concentrated losses and distributed gains does not a confident government make.

HYUFD

Pro_Rata said:

rcs1000 said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.

Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.

Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.

“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/

He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughty

I suspect Italy will be the dog that didn't bark.

Their press are starting to wonder (again) whether the M5S/Lega deal will actually happen.

I think it's still better than 50/50, but ask again in 24 hours.

The latest Italian poll has M5S unchanged from the general election on 32% but Lega Nord up 8% from 17% to 25% so it does look like a M5S and Lega Nord deal is the only show in town

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Italian_general_election

David_Evershed

Verulamius said:

There is a replacement for Meghan's dad:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/im-your-father-now-trump-tells-meghan-20180515164868

Who's your daddy?

HYUFD

rcs1000 said:

HYUFD said:

rcs1000 said:

HYUFD said:

rcs1000 said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is is how bad an idea Brexit is, a Frenchman is taking piss out of us.

Michel Barnier has mocked Theresa May over her failure to agree a post-Brexit customs model with her ministers as he said it was “unnecessary to fight” over two options which Brussels will reject anyway.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator reportedly told European ministers attending the General Affairs Council in Brussels that neither the Prime Minister’s preferred option of a customs partnership or the alternative "maximum facilitation" model were “realistic”.

Ann Linde, the Swedish Europe Minister, reportedly said: “Michel Barnier said [to the GAC] the two British proposals the Cabinet is disagreeing about – none of them are realistic.

“So he thinks it’s unnecessary to fight about it, as none of them are realistic no matter which one they choose.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/15/theresa-mays-hopes-breaking-brexit-deadlock-stall-warring-ministers/

He will soon find he has some Italian problems on his hands too once Di Maio and Salvini take over, then he may not be quite as haughty

I suspect Italy will be the dog that didn't bark.

Both Salvini and Di Maio will certainly demand an easing of Eurozone fiscal rules and tougher immigration policies and with Italy the EU's 4th largest economy and with the EU already coping with the departure of its second largest economy will have much more leeway than Tsipras and the Greeks had to get concessions

Good for them.

The issue Italy has is the same one Greece has. The country is deeply split on Euro membership, and it is the opposite split to the UK. Old people have massive Euro denominated savings. (Indeed, Italians' financial assets are the highest of any major Eurozone economy.)

Leaving the Euro means cutting the real value of old people's savings and pensions. And the EU knows this. So, Italy's leverage is limited.

It was the young and middle aged who largely voted for Di Maio and Salvini, pensioners were more likely to vote for Berlusconi or Renzi and safety first so the incoming government in Italy will not be so beholden to pensioners

We'll see: concentrated losses and distributed gains does not a confident government make.

Though this new populist government would have a big mandate for change and its voters will expect to see it delivered

HYUFD

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

FF43 said:

rkrkrk said:

Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?

The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.

And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.

Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevant

We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.

That doesn’t make it a good idea.

Especially as most of Africa, South Asia, Eastern Europe and Latin America would try and cram into North America, Western Europe, the Far East and Oceania putting huge strain on resources and housing and services. While trying to set interest rates and fiscal management for a global economy covering Somalia and Switzerland would be a nightmare

I think it’s as naive an idea as global socialism, and ignores fundamentals of human nature.

I also think a monopoly of governance and regulation is as bad an idea in the public sphere as it is in the private.

Competition between nations and governments can be very beneficial.

Which is why it will always be there.

The UN is the closest we have to a global government and it is fair to say it is not exactly a dynamic organisation

MaxPB

TheScreamingEagles said:

MaxPB said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

FF43 said:

rkrkrk said:

Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?

The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.

And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.

Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevant

We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.

That doesn’t make it a good idea.

That is the ultimate aim of the globalists though I guess?

Is the world/aim of Star Trek.

For the Borg, sure.

For the Federation and Earth too.

As Garak observed, the Federation is insidious. The difference between the two isn't as much as people like to make out.

I definitely prefer the Klingons and Cardassians to the Federation. Though DS9 Federation is much more interesting than TNG or VOY.

Casino_Royale

MaxPB said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

MaxPB said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

FF43 said:

rkrkrk said:

Surely if the government lose it will turn out that there never were any Brexit Subcommittee papers, indeed perhaps there never was a Brexit subcommittee?

The government played an (almost) blinder on the Brexit analysis papers. First by vaguely referring to thorough analysis and then trying to prevent publication, encouraging cynical people - my.raised hand - to believe they didn't have any analysis and so they cobbled together some stuff using Wikipedia.

And then it turned out they secretly DID HAVE ANALYSIS, which explained Brexit was all a big mistake, which anyone sensible knows already. But they put numbers on it. I admit I was fooled. I really thought they were pretending to have analysis but didn't really.

Brexit is only a 'mistake' to those for whom economics is all and sovereignty and insufficient immigration control is irrelevant

We could very probably achieve greater economic growth by having a single global government, single global currency and global free movement.

That doesn’t make it a good idea.

That is the ultimate aim of the globalists though I guess?

Is the world/aim of Star Trek.

For the Borg, sure.

For the Federation and Earth too.

As Garak observed, the Federation is insidious. The difference between the two isn't as much as people like to make out.

I definitely prefer the Klingons and Cardassians to the Federation. Though DS9 Federation is much more interesting than TNG or VOY.

If we ever advanced that far, and needed interplanetary relations, then something like an Earth federation would be perfectly feasible, even likely.

However, I’d expect it to deal with things like agreeing rules for interplanetary trade with other planets, global space defence, and interspecies relations and I’d expect it to do it though nation states on earth.

I wouldn’t expect it to fully replace domestic governments, or normal foreign policy relations between nation states on earth, still less globalise tax, health, education and social policy as Star Trek implies.