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Couldn't the Scottish government have increased alcohol duty across the board rather than aimed this tax rise at the low paid ?DavidL said:
Yes it is which makes me uncomfortable. But having seen 2 daughters through their teens in recent years loading up with "pre's" (I am not sure how to spell it to be honest) at friend's houses before they went out there is no question that there remains an issue amongst the young, even if an increasing number of them don't drink at all reducing their average.Alanbrooke said:
Isnt this just more middle class overlording ?DavidL said:
There are significant differences in price on most vodkas, some blended whiskies, cheap wine (Tesco was previously selling bottles down to £4 or even less) and cheap ciders. Some of these have almost doubled in price, especially the vodkas. As I say I personally am persuaded that this is a good thing and that really cheap alcohol was a bad thing causing serious damage to those who take it as well as adverse social consequences. But then, like you, the minimum price has not really affected me.malcolmg said:
David, surprised you are taken in by the hype. There has been little to no change , cheap muck at bottom may have gone up but any premium / quality beer / wine / spirits have not changed one iota. Unionist right wing cretinous bollox.DavidL said:
This is certainly going to hurt the border towns, at least until England does something similar. You don't have to be a fan of Nicola to wonder if alcohol at less than 50p a unit is a good idea.Scott_P said:
The middle classes and professions are currently the nation's heaviest drinkers
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/uk-most-frequent-drinkers-lawyers-doctors-city-professionals-alcohol-consumption-statistics-a8330741.html
We see the social consequences on our streets and in Scotland at least it is an issue. We drink significantly more than the English on average and it is one of the factors that reduces our life expectancies (its also a lot easier to do something about than the depressing weather and lack of sunlight for months on end). There are arguments both ways but on balance I came down in support of minimum pricing.0 -
Celebrate?GIN1138 said:If The Three Brexiteers resign from the Cabinet today what does May do?
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On present polls it will be Vince Cable who decides whether May or another Tory leader or Corbyn becomes PM after the next general election and that also would make soft Brexit likely with only a tear or two of full Brexit post transition from 2020 to 2022not_on_fire said:
In this era of minority governments and small majorities, even 5-6 seats lost to the LDs could be very significant.Sandpit said:
But how marginal are most of them now? Richmond Park, Cheadle, Devon N, Cheltenham, maybe St Albans, but where else are the LDs within 10% of the Con incumbent?not_on_fire said:
Umm, LibDem/Con marginals?Sandpit said:
Yeahbut London was turned into an awesome sea of red so nothing else counts.CarlottaVance said:Another perspective on 'the best Labour performance since 1971':
ttps://twitter.com/colinrtalbot/status/992744992715223040
Meanwhile, in Nuneaton, Morley, Newcastle -U-L, Dudley etc the trend is all blue. Guess where a general election is won and lost?
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html
Also, St Ives should be on your list.0 -
Turn her attention to the vote of confidence? There can’t be many more letters ending to go to Graham Brady and a resignation or two over the customs whatever would surely trigger the vote.GIN1138 said:If The Three Brexiteers resign from the Cabinet today what does May do?
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The old ones are the best...SandyRentool said:
I believe there are problems with the electoral register in St Ives. Apparently one canvasser encountered a man who claimed to have 7 wives...HYUFD said:
St Ives?Sandpit said:
But how marginal are most of them now? Richmond Park, Cheadle, Devon N, Cheltenham, maybe St Albans, but where else are the LDs within 10% of the Con incumbent?not_on_fire said:
Umm, LibDem/Con marginals?Sandpit said:
Yeahbut London was turned into an awesome sea of red so nothing else counts.CarlottaVance said:Another perspective on 'the best Labour performance since 1971':
ttps://twitter.com/colinrtalbot/status/992744992715223040
Meanwhile, in Nuneaton, Morley, Newcastle -U-L, Dudley etc the trend is all blue. Guess where a general election is won and lost?
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html
(I've already got my coat)0 -
They are much older than the Single Market. As discussed on here many times in the past, the UK's managerial class is shockingly lightweight. This country's overriding business philosophy is all about cutting to the bone instead of investing, getting by instead of planning, competing on price instead of on quality. What does that leave us with? Products that people do not want to buy produced by demoralised workforces with no incentive to do more than the bare minimum.DavidL said:
What we really need is to improve our productivity markedly increasing competitiveness without depreciating the currency as the Germans have repeatedly done. But that is a much more complex, longer term solution.another_richard said:
The "ra-ra-ra the pound is going up" cheering during the winter really was idiotic.DavidL said:
I think it is absolutely clear that the UK economy has lost a considerable amount of momentum. The interest rate increase pencilled in for this month is surely off.AlastairMeeks said:
We are finally seeing the consequences of an extended period of falling real wages on demand. The M1 figures are a consequence of that. The important thing for the UK is get output back in line with supply. If we can increase exports to offset this fall in demand this will be good for UK plc in the medium term, even if it is unpleasant in the short term. Unfortunately, I do not think we will be the only country that suffers from this. Much of the EZ is showing less promise than it did in January.
There's only two ways in which the UK can get growth:
1) Export led requiring low sterling and growth in other countries
2) Borrow and spend ie stealing growth from the future
What I am finding mildly irritating at the moment is people "finding" these long term, chronic problems in our economy and trying to claim that they have something to do with Brexit. The detail of these problems evolving whilst we were in the SM seems to completely pass them by.
It's notable that in the service areas where we are top notch, people do tend to be paid well and businesses do invest and plan for the long term. There's a lesson there somewhere.
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That's similar to the first point.Alanbrooke said:
3) reshoring and making stuff we used to make so we don't import itanother_richard said:
The "ra-ra-ra the pound is going up" cheering during the winter really was idiotic.DavidL said:
I think it is absolutely clear that the UK economy has lost a considerable amount of momentum. The interest rate increase pencilled in for this month is surely off.AlastairMeeks said:
We are finally seeing the consequences of an extended period of falling real wages on demand. The M1 figures are a consequence of that. The important thing for the UK is get output back in line with supply. If we can increase exports to offset this fall in demand this will be good for UK plc in the medium term, even if it is unpleasant in the short term. Unfortunately, I do not think we will be the only country that suffers from this. Much of the EZ is showing less promise than it did in January.
There's only two ways in which the UK can get growth:
1) Export led requiring low sterling and growth in other countries
2) Borrow and spend ie stealing growth from the future
start with HP sauce
Though I'm sure company directors were able to give themselves a nice bonus when they offshored production.0 -
There's absolutely no reason we couldn't be part of Galileo other than an EU punishment mentality. They claim spurious security concerns in information sharing... while also wanting a separate agreement on sharing secret intelligence. This is a prize example of continuity Remainers backing Brussels over London regardless of the logic.Scott_P said:Ian Dunt - @IanDunt: You couldn't ask for a more perfect encapsulation of the pointlessness of Brexit than ham-faced cretin Gavin Williamson saying we should build our own Galileo system.
Ian Dunt - @IanDunt: He wants to spend countless millions replicating a project we are already invested in. He calls it... you guessed it... "rediscovering our bulldog spirit".0 -
Something pretty foul smelling about Tom Watson being behind this, who's office is funded by Mosely, seeking to force newspapers to sign up to the Mosely funded Impress. Impress cannot be sustainable without this move.not_on_fire said:
Free speech is good. Presenting lies as if they were news is not good.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. P, why would MPs, excepting the censorious and far left, be in favour of state regulation of the press? I hope the amendment fails utterly.
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My daughter calls it Prinks. They get hammered at home and then hit the town. I am certain that younger folk drink a lot more of the hard stuff than my generation ever did. Shots did not exist when I was in my early 20s, I am sure. That said, there was a lot more drug taking back in the day.DavidL said:
Yes it is which makes me uncomfortable. But having seen 2 daughters through their teens in recent years loading up with "pre's" (I am not sure how to spell it to be honest) at friend's houses before they went out there is no question that there remains an issue amongst the young, even if an increasing number of them don't drink at all reducing their average.Alanbrooke said:
Isnt this just more middle class overlording ?DavidL said:
There are significant differences in price on most vodkas, some blended whiskies, cheap wine (Tesco was previously selling bottles down to £4 or even less) and cheap ciders. Some of these have almost doubled in price, especially the vodkas. As I say I personally am persuaded that this is a good thing and that really cheap alcohol was a bad thing causing serious damage to those who take it as well as adverse social consequences. But then, like you, the minimum price has not really affected me.malcolmg said:
David, surprised you are taken in by the hype. There has been little to no change , cheap muck at bottom may have gone up but any premium / quality beer / wine / spirits have not changed one iota. Unionist right wing cretinous bollox.DavidL said:
This is certainly going to hurt the border towns, at least until England does something similar. You don't have to be a fan of Nicola to wonder if alcohol at less than 50p a unit is a good idea.Scott_P said:
The middle classes and professions are currently the nation's heaviest drinkers
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/uk-most-frequent-drinkers-lawyers-doctors-city-professionals-alcohol-consumption-statistics-a8330741.html
We see the social consequences on our streets and in Scotland at least it is an issue. We drink significantly more than the English on average and it is one of the factors that reduces our life expectancies (its also a lot easier to do something about than the depressing weather and lack of sunlight for months on end). There are arguments both ways but on balance I came down in support of minimum pricing.
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UK top notch on services ?SouthamObserver said:
They are much older than the Single Market. As discussed on here many times in the past, the UK's managerial class is shockingly lightweight. This country's overriding business philosophy is all about cutting to the bone instead of investing, getting by instead of planning, competing on price instead of on quality. What does that leave us with? Products that people do not want to buy produced by demoralised workforces with no incentive to do more than the bare minimum.DavidL said:
What we really need is to improve our productivity markedly increasing competitiveness without depreciating the currency as the Germans have repeatedly done. But that is a much more complex, longer term solution.another_richard said:
The "ra-ra-ra the pound is going up" cheering during the winter really was idiotic.DavidL said:
I think it is absolutely clear that the UK economy has lost a considerable amount of momentum. The interest rate increase pencilled in for this month is surely off.AlastairMeeks said:
We are finally seeing the consequences of an extended period of falling real wages on demand. The M1 figures are a consequence of that. The important thing for the UK is get output back in line with supply. If we can increase exports to offset this fall in demand this will be good for UK plc in the medium term, even if it is unpleasant in the short term. Unfortunately, I do not think we will be the only country that suffers from this. Much of the EZ is showing less promise than it did in January.
There's only two ways in which the UK can get growth:
1) Export led requiring low sterling and growth in other countries
2) Borrow and spend ie stealing growth from the future
What I am finding mildly irritating at the moment is people "finding" these long term, chronic problems in our economy and trying to claim that they have something to do with Brexit. The detail of these problems evolving whilst we were in the SM seems to completely pass them by.
It's notable that in the service areas where we are top notch, people do tend to be paid well and businesses do invest and plan for the long term. There's a lesson there somewhere.
that's some claim.0 -
By and large, manufacturing is also top-notch in the UK. 8% of the workforce produce 40% of exports. We just need more of it.SouthamObserver said:
They are much older than the Single Market. As discussed on here many times in the past, the UK's managerial class is shockingly lightweight. This country's overriding business philosophy is all about cutting to the bone instead of investing, getting by instead of planning, competing on price instead of on quality. What does that leave us with? Products that people do not want to buy produced by demoralised workforces with no incentive to do more than the bare minimum.DavidL said:
What we really need is to improve our productivity markedly increasing competitiveness without depreciating the currency as the Germans have repeatedly done. But that is a much more complex, longer term solution.another_richard said:
The "ra-ra-ra the pound is going up" cheering during the winter really was idiotic.DavidL said:
I think it is absolutely clear that the UK economy has lost a considerable amount of momentum. The interest rate increase pencilled in for this month is surely off.AlastairMeeks said:
We are finally seeing the consequences of an extended period of falling real wages on demand. The M1 figures are a consequence of that. The important thing for the UK is get output back in line with supply. If we can increase exports to offset this fall in demand this will be good for UK plc in the medium term, even if it is unpleasant in the short term. Unfortunately, I do not think we will be the only country that suffers from this. Much of the EZ is showing less promise than it did in January.
There's only two ways in which the UK can get growth:
1) Export led requiring low sterling and growth in other countries
2) Borrow and spend ie stealing growth from the future
What I am finding mildly irritating at the moment is people "finding" these long term, chronic problems in our economy and trying to claim that they have something to do with Brexit. The detail of these problems evolving whilst we were in the SM seems to completely pass them by.
It's notable that in the service areas where we are top notch, people do tend to be paid well and businesses do invest and plan for the long term. There's a lesson there somewhere.0 -
The logic is, we chose to Leave, partly on the back of promises that the EU would grant us whatever we asked for as they would be desperate for a deal.Elliot said:
There's absolutely no reason we couldn't be part of Galileo other than an EU punishment mentality. They claim spurious security concerns in information sharing... while also wanting a separate agreement on sharing secret intelligence. This is a prize example of continuity Remainers backing Brussels over London regardless of the logic.Scott_P said:Ian Dunt - @IanDunt: You couldn't ask for a more perfect encapsulation of the pointlessness of Brexit than ham-faced cretin Gavin Williamson saying we should build our own Galileo system.
Ian Dunt - @IanDunt: He wants to spend countless millions replicating a project we are already invested in. He calls it... you guessed it... "rediscovering our bulldog spirit".
Don’t blame the EU or Remainers for the lies of the Leave campain unravelling.
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O/T are there any betting markets on the Irish Abortion referendum? It's turning into a much tighter contest than it first appeared.0
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Maybe also Lewes (11.3%), Hazel Grove (11.3%) and St Albans (12.5%)Sandpit said:
Yes, good spot.HYUFD said:
St Ives?Sandpit said:
But how marginal are most of them now? Richmond Park, Cheadle, Devon N, Cheltenham, maybe St Albans, but where else are the LDs within 10% of the Con incumbent?not_on_fire said:
Umm, LibDem/Con marginals?Sandpit said:
Yeahbut London was turned into an awesome sea of red so nothing else counts.CarlottaVance said:Another perspective on 'the best Labour performance since 1971':
ttps://twitter.com/colinrtalbot/status/992744992715223040
Meanwhile, in Nuneaton, Morley, Newcastle -U-L, Dudley etc the trend is all blue. Guess where a general election is won and lost?
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html
That's seven achievable on a 6% swing Con to LD.
In Richmond locals there was a 14% swing Con to LD.
There's also Sheffield Hallam, NE Fife and Ceredigion making ten achievable gains - nearly doubling the LD seats to 22 where it could make a difference.0 -
You didn't read what I wrote: "in the service areas where we are top notch"Alanbrooke said:
UK top notch on services ?SouthamObserver said:
They are much older than the Single Market. As discussed on here many times in the past, the UK's managerial class is shockingly lightweight. This country's overriding business philosophy is all about cutting to the bone instead of investing, getting by instead of planning, competing on price instead of on quality. What does that leave us with? Products that people do not want to buy produced by demoralised workforces with no incentive to do more than the bare minimum.DavidL said:
What we really need is to improve our productivity markedly increasing competitiveness without depreciating the currency as the Germans have repeatedly done. But that is a much more complex, longer term solution.another_richard said:
The "ra-ra-ra the pound is going up" cheering during the winter really was idiotic.DavidL said:
I think it is absolutely clear that the UK economy has lost a considerable amount of momentum. The interest rate increase pencilled in for this month is surely off.AlastairMeeks said:
We are finally seeing the consequences of an extended period of falling real wages on demand. The M1 figures are a consequence of that. The important thing for the UK is get output back in line with supply. If we can increase exports to offset this fall in demand this will be good for UK plc in the medium term, even if it is unpleasant in the short term. Unfortunately, I do not think we will be the only country that suffers from this. Much of the EZ is showing less promise than it did in January.
There's only two ways in which the UK can get growth:
1) Export led requiring low sterling and growth in other countries
2) Borrow and spend ie stealing growth from the future
What I am finding mildly irritating at the moment is people "finding" these long term, chronic problems in our economy and trying to claim that they have something to do with Brexit. The detail of these problems evolving whilst we were in the SM seems to completely pass them by.
It's notable that in the service areas where we are top notch, people do tend to be paid well and businesses do invest and plan for the long term. There's a lesson there somewhere.
that's some claim.
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Yep - our foreign-owned auto sector is certainly highly competitive.Sean_F said:
By and large, manufacturing is also top-notch in the UK. 8% of the workforce produce 40% of exports. We just need more of it.SouthamObserver said:
They are much older than the Single Market. As discussed on here many times in the past, the UK's managerial class is shockingly lightweight. This country's overriding business philosophy is all about cutting to the bone instead of investing, getting by instead of planning, competing on price instead of on quality. What does that leave us with? Products that people do not want to buy produced by demoralised workforces with no incentive to do more than the bare minimum.DavidL said:
What we really need is to improve our productivity markedly increasing competitiveness without depreciating the currency as the Germans have repeatedly done. But that is a much more complex, longer term solution.another_richard said:
The "ra-ra-ra the pound is going up" cheering during the winter really was idiotic.DavidL said:
I think it is absolutely clear that the UK economy has lost a considerable amount of momentum. The interest rate increase pencilled in for this month is surely off.AlastairMeeks said:
We are finally seeing the consequences of an extended period of falling real wages on demand. The M1 figures are a consequence of that. The important thing for the UK is get output back in line with supply. If we can increase exports to offset this fall in demand this will be good for UK plc in the medium term, even if it is unpleasant in the short term. Unfortunately, I do not think we will be the only country that suffers from this. Much of the EZ is showing less promise than it did in January.
There's only two ways in which the UK can get growth:
1) Export led requiring low sterling and growth in other countries
2) Borrow and spend ie stealing growth from the future
What I am finding mildly irritating at the moment is people "finding" these long term, chronic problems in our economy and trying to claim that they have something to do with Brexit. The detail of these problems evolving whilst we were in the SM seems to completely pass them by.
It's notable that in the service areas where we are top notch, people do tend to be paid well and businesses do invest and plan for the long term. There's a lesson there somewhere.
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Yet productivity rose steadily for decades until falling into stagnation at some point and for various reasons after 2000.SouthamObserver said:
They are much older than the Single Market. As discussed on here many times in the past, the UK's managerial class is shockingly lightweight. This country's overriding business philosophy is all about cutting to the bone instead of investing, getting by instead of planning, competing on price instead of on quality. What does that leave us with? Products that people do not want to buy produced by demoralised workforces with no incentive to do more than the bare minimum.DavidL said:
What we really need is to improve our productivity markedly increasing competitiveness without depreciating the currency as the Germans have repeatedly done. But that is a much more complex, longer term solution.another_richard said:
The "ra-ra-ra the pound is going up" cheering during the winter really was idiotic.DavidL said:
I think it is absolutely clear that the UK economy has lost a considerable amount of momentum. The interest rate increase pencilled in for this month is surely off.AlastairMeeks said:
We are finally seeing the consequences of an extended period of falling real wages on demand. The M1 figures are a consequence of that. The important thing for the UK is get output back in line with supply. If we can increase exports to offset this fall in demand this will be good for UK plc in the medium term, even if it is unpleasant in the short term. Unfortunately, I do not think we will be the only country that suffers from this. Much of the EZ is showing less promise than it did in January.
There's only two ways in which the UK can get growth:
1) Export led requiring low sterling and growth in other countries
2) Borrow and spend ie stealing growth from the future
What I am finding mildly irritating at the moment is people "finding" these long term, chronic problems in our economy and trying to claim that they have something to do with Brexit. The detail of these problems evolving whilst we were in the SM seems to completely pass them by.
It's notable that in the service areas where we are top notch, people do tend to be paid well and businesses do invest and plan for the long term. There's a lesson there somewhere.
I rather suspect that the rise in productivity was driven by only part of the economy and that has maxed out its productivity potential.
Whereas some other parts of the economy have lower productivity now than 15 years ago - agriculture and carwashing as examples.0 -
Publicity shy Paddy Power are offering marketsSean_F said:O/T are there any betting markets on the Irish Abortion referendum? It's turning into a much tighter contest than it first appeared.
https://www.paddypower.com/politics
As are Ladbrokes
https://m.ladbrokes.com/en-gb/#!event_details?id=2263697670 -
What bit of Leave do you not understand??Elliot said:
There's absolutely no reason we couldn't be part of Galileo other than an EU punishment mentality. They claim spurious security concerns in information sharing... while also wanting a separate agreement on sharing secret intelligence. This is a prize example of continuity Remainers backing Brussels over London regardless of the logic.Scott_P said:Ian Dunt - @IanDunt: You couldn't ask for a more perfect encapsulation of the pointlessness of Brexit than ham-faced cretin Gavin Williamson saying we should build our own Galileo system.
Ian Dunt - @IanDunt: He wants to spend countless millions replicating a project we are already invested in. He calls it... you guessed it... "rediscovering our bulldog spirit".
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Paddy Power has some markets:Sean_F said:O/T are there any betting markets on the Irish Abortion referendum? It's turning into a much tighter contest than it first appeared.
https://www.paddypower.com/politics0 -
I read it but interpreted it differently; but now that I see what you mean the same statement could be made of any sector.SouthamObserver said:
You didn't read what I wrote: "in the service areas where we are top notch"Alanbrooke said:
UK top notch on services ?SouthamObserver said:
They are much older than the Single Market. As discussed on here many times in the past, the UK's managerial class is shockingly lightweight. This country's overriding business philosophy is all about cutting to the bone instead of investing, getting by instead of planning, competing on price instead of on quality. What does that leave us with? Products that people do not want to buy produced by demoralised workforces with no incentive to do more than the bare minimum.DavidL said:
What we really need is to improve our productivity markedly increasing competitiveness without depreciating the currency as the Germans have repeatedly done. But that is a much more complex, longer term solution.another_richard said:
The "ra-ra-ra the pound is going up" cheering during the winter really was idiotic.DavidL said:
I think it is absolutely clear that the UK economy has lost a considerable amount of momentum. The interest rate increase pencilled in for this month is surely off.AlastairMeeks said:
We are finally seeing the consequences of an extended period of falling real wages on demand. The M1 figures are a consequence of that. The important thing for the UK is get output back in line with supply. If we can increase exports to offset this fall in demand this will be good for UK plc in the medium term, even if it is unpleasant in the short term. Unfortunately, I do not think we will be the only country that suffers from this. Much of the EZ is showing less promise than it did in January.
There's only two ways in which the UK can get growth:
1) Export led requiring low sterling and growth in other countries
2) Borrow and spend ie stealing growth from the future
What I am finding mildly irritating at the moment is people "finding" these long term, chronic problems in our economy and trying to claim that they have something to do with Brexit. The detail of these problems evolving whilst we were in the SM seems to completely pass them by.
It's notable that in the service areas where we are top notch, people do tend to be paid well and businesses do invest and plan for the long term. There's a lesson there somewhere.
that's some claim.
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And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:0 -
Party like it’s like 1999 then beg supporters of Dave and George to back her in the VONC.GIN1138 said:If The Three Brexiteers resign from the Cabinet today what does May do?
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The Lib Dems had a huge lead in Twickenham, but only a 1% lead in Richmond Park, which suggests another tight contest.Barnesian said:
Maybe also Lewes (11.3%), Hazel Grove (11.3%) and St Albans (12.5%)Sandpit said:
Yes, good spot.HYUFD said:
St Ives?Sandpit said:
But how marginal are most of them now? Richmond Park, Cheadle, Devon N, Cheltenham, maybe St Albans, but where else are the LDs within 10% of the Con incumbent?not_on_fire said:
Umm, LibDem/Con marginals?Sandpit said:
Yeahbut London was turned into an awesome sea of red so nothing else counts.CarlottaVance said:Another perspective on 'the best Labour performance since 1971':
ttps://twitter.com/colinrtalbot/status/992744992715223040
Meanwhile, in Nuneaton, Morley, Newcastle -U-L, Dudley etc the trend is all blue. Guess where a general election is won and lost?
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html
That's seven achievable on a 6% swing Con to LD.
In Richmond locals there was a 14% swing Con to LD.
There's also Sheffield Hallam, NE Fife and Ceredigion making ten achievable gains - nearly doubling the LD seats to 22 where it could make a difference.0 -
Yet any suggestion that we should not provide the EU with security intelligence free of charge is met with outrage from Remainers.not_on_fire said:
The logic is, we chose to Leave, partly on the back of promises that the EU would grant us whatever we asked for as they would be desperate for a deal.Elliot said:
There's absolutely no reason we couldn't be part of Galileo other than an EU punishment mentality. They claim spurious security concerns in information sharing... while also wanting a separate agreement on sharing secret intelligence. This is a prize example of continuity Remainers backing Brussels over London regardless of the logic.Scott_P said:Ian Dunt - @IanDunt: You couldn't ask for a more perfect encapsulation of the pointlessness of Brexit than ham-faced cretin Gavin Williamson saying we should build our own Galileo system.
Ian Dunt - @IanDunt: He wants to spend countless millions replicating a project we are already invested in. He calls it... you guessed it... "rediscovering our bulldog spirit".
Don’t blame the EU or Remainers for the lies of the Leave campain unravelling.0 -
Are you new here? The larger moiety of the content here is MC overlording. Start a discussion on Business Class air travel if you really want to see some self-regarding preening.Alanbrooke said:
Isnt this just more middle class overlording ?0 -
If you can’t depose the incumbent in Sheffield Hallam I’d be very worried!Barnesian said:
Maybe also Lewes (11.3%), Hazel Grove (11.3%) and St Albans (12.5%)Sandpit said:
Yes, good spot.HYUFD said:
St Ives?Sandpit said:
But how marginal are most of them now? Richmond Park, Cheadle, Devon N, Cheltenham, maybe St Albans, but where else are the LDs within 10% of the Con incumbent?not_on_fire said:
Umm, LibDem/Con marginals?Sandpit said:
Yeahbut London was turned into an awesome sea of red so nothing else counts.CarlottaVance said:Another perspective on 'the best Labour performance since 1971':
ttps://twitter.com/colinrtalbot/status/992744992715223040
Meanwhile, in Nuneaton, Morley, Newcastle -U-L, Dudley etc the trend is all blue. Guess where a general election is won and lost?
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html
That's seven achievable on a 6% swing Con to LD.
In Richmond locals there was a 14% swing Con to LD.
There's also Sheffield Hallam, NE Fife and Ceredigion making ten achievable gains - nearly doubling the LD seats to 22 where it could make a difference.
There’s an awful lot to happen between now and the next election, I think the LDs will do better if Brexit is no longer a live issue and if Corbyn has retired - he is keeping the two-party split very high as we saw last time out.0 -
Boris seems to have a knack for failure. He needs to go back to journalismrottenborough said:0 -
Ive already seen enough from the pineapple on pizza discussionsDura_Ace said:
Are you new here? The larger moiety of the content here is MC overlording. Start a discussion on Business Class air travel if you really want to see some self-regarding preening.Alanbrooke said:
Isnt this just more middle class overlording ?0 -
It is very unlikely that anyone will resign today imho.TheScreamingEagles said:
Party like it’s like 1999 then beg supporters of Dave and George to back her in the VONC.GIN1138 said:If The Three Brexiteers resign from the Cabinet today what does May do?
0 -
lolTheScreamingEagles said:
Party like it’s like 1999 then beg supporters of Dave and George to back her in the VONC.GIN1138 said:If The Three Brexiteers resign from the Cabinet today what does May do?
nobody supports George any more, he's the day before yesterdays man0 -
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.0 -
Of course. The problem is far too many UK businesses do not invest and plan for the long term - and it has been that way for decades. Our R&D spend, for example, is below the OECD and European average. That has consequences.Alanbrooke said:
I read it but interpreted it differently; but now that I see what you mean the same statement could be made of any sector.SouthamObserver said:
You didn't read what I wrote: "in the service areas where we are top notch"Alanbrooke said:
UK top notch on services ?SouthamObserver said:
They are minimum.DavidL said:
What we really need is to improve our productivity markedly increasing competitiveness without depreciating the currency as the Germans have repeatedly done. But that is a much more complex, longer term solution.another_richard said:
The "ra-ra-ra the pound is going up" cheering during the winter really was idiotic.DavidL said:
I think it is absolutely clear that the UK economy has lost a considerable amount of momentum. The interest rate increase pencilled in for this month is surely off.AlastairMeeks said:
We are finally seeing the consequences of an extended period of falling real wages on demand. The M1 figures are a consequence of that. The important thing for the UK is get output back in line with supply. If we can increase exports to offset this fall in demand this will be good for UK plc in the medium term, even if it is unpleasant in the short term. Unfortunately, I do not think we will be the only country that suffers from this. Much of the EZ is showing less promise than it did in January.
There's only two ways in which the UK can get growth:
1) Export led requiring low sterling and growth in other countries
2) Borrow and spend ie stealing growth from the future
What I am finding mildly irritating at the moment is people "finding" these long term, chronic problems in our economy and trying to claim that they have something to do with Brexit. The detail of these problems evolving whilst we were in the SM seems to completely pass them by.
It's notable that in the service areas where we are top notch, people do tend to be paid well and businesses do invest and plan for the long term. There's a lesson there somewhere.
that's some claim.
0 -
If an unnecessary election is called the conservatives will lose.GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
In a democracy you have to have the votes and it is only about 60 conservative mps who are ideologues out of 650 mps0 -
But that’s not the way it will actually work in practice. The Executive will negotiate a deal with the EU and come to Parliament with the deal. Parliament then have to decide whether we leave the EU under the terms of the negotiated deal or leave the EU to WTO terms with no deal in place. Parliament cannot unilaterally insert themselves into the negotiation process with the EU, no matter how much they would like to be involved.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:0 -
Did you miss the 2017 general election ?GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
The one that was going to crush the saboteurs.0 -
Not fair on Boris to be honest. I doubt even the great Talleyrand could have persuaded Trump, when he's got Bolton beside him whispering in his ear.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris seems to have a knack for failure. He needs to go back to journalismrottenborough said:
I thought Boris was quite clever in using Fox as a way of communicating directly to Trump.
0 -
of course it has,SouthamObserver said:
Of course. The problem is far too many UK businesses do not invest and plan for the long term - and it has been that way for decades. Our R&D spend, for example, is below the OECD and European average. That has consequences.Alanbrooke said:
I read it but interpreted it differently; but now that I see what you mean the same statement could be made of any sector.SouthamObserver said:
You didn't read what I wrote: "in the service areas where we are top notch"Alanbrooke said:
UK top notch on services ?SouthamObserver said:
They are minimum.DavidL said:
What we really need is to improve our productivity markedly increasing competitiveness without depreciating the currency as the Germans have repeatedly done. But that is a much more complex, longer term solution.another_richard said:
The "ra-ra-ra the pound is going up" cheering during the winter really was idiotic.DavidL said:
I think it is absolutely clear that the UK economy has lost a considerable amount of momentum. The interest rate increase pencilled in for this month is surely off.AlastairMeeks said:
We are finally seeing the consequences of an extended period of falling real wages on demand. The M1 figures are a consequence of that. The important thing for the UK is get output back in line with supply. If we can increase exports to offset this fall in demand this will be good for UK plc in the medium term, even if it is unpleasant in the short term. Unfortunately, I do not think we will be the only country that suffers from this. Much of the EZ is showing less promise than it did in January.
There's only two ways in which the UK can get growth:
1) Export led requiring low sterling and growth in other countries
2) Borrow and spend ie stealing growth from the future
What I am finding mildly irritating at the moment is people "finding" these long term, chronic problems in our economy and trying to claim that they have something to do with Brexit. The detail of these problems evolving whilst we were in the SM seems to completely pass them by.
It's notable that in the service areas where we are top notch, people do tend to be paid well and businesses do invest and plan for the long term. There's a lesson there somewhere.
that's some claim.
but since we sell off our businesses and then watch the research and tax bases go off shore, this is hardly a surprise.0 -
I'm sure there's a few doing their Hiroo Onoda impressions on the back benchesAlanbrooke said:
lolTheScreamingEagles said:
Party like it’s like 1999 then beg supporters of Dave and George to back her in the VONC.GIN1138 said:If The Three Brexiteers resign from the Cabinet today what does May do?
nobody supports George any more, he's the day before yesterdays man0 -
We haven’t gone away you know.Alanbrooke said:
lolTheScreamingEagles said:
Party like it’s like 1999 then beg supporters of Dave and George to back her in the VONC.GIN1138 said:If The Three Brexiteers resign from the Cabinet today what does May do?
nobody supports George any more, he's the day before yesterdays man
The Provisional Wing of the Continuity Cameron Army is still active.0 -
I humbly suggest that given we are pretty busy with Brexit, we sit out Trump's forthcoming war with Iran.0
-
TheScreamingEagles said:
Did you miss the 2017 general election ?GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
The one that was going to crush the saboteurs.
It's hard to believe Con could run another election as appalling as 2017...0 -
So the executive can impose their deal on the HOC. With respect I do not see that happening without majority supportSandpit said:
But that’s not the way it will actually work in practice. The Executive will negotiate a deal with the EU and come to Parliament with the deal. Parliament then have to decide whether we leave the EU under the terms of the negotiated deal or leave the EU to WTO terms with no deal in place. Parliament cannot unilaterally insert themselves into the negotiation process with the EU, no matter how much they would like to be involved.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:0 -
if only you had the common sense of Dave to say what has happened has happened and there's no point crying over spilt milk.TheScreamingEagles said:
Did you miss the 2017 general election ?GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
The one that was going to crush the saboteurs.
Get on with life as it is not how you thought it would be
0 -
It could just be worse as it would be a very divided partyGIN1138 said:TheScreamingEagles said:
Did you miss the 2017 general election ?GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
The one that was going to crush the saboteurs.
It's hard to believe Con could run another election as appalling as 2017...0 -
What are its aims ?TheScreamingEagles said:
We haven’t gone away you know.Alanbrooke said:
lolTheScreamingEagles said:
Party like it’s like 1999 then beg supporters of Dave and George to back her in the VONC.GIN1138 said:If The Three Brexiteers resign from the Cabinet today what does May do?
nobody supports George any more, he's the day before yesterdays man
The Provisional Wing of the Continuity Cameron Army is still active.
High housing prices, higher pensions and higher student debts ?0 -
In the local election, over 50% of voters gave their backing to parties that explicitly support a continued customs union with the EU.GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
It's hard to see who the Tories could choose to replace May who would break up the Labour voting coalition - which is what the Tories need in order to win a majority. Rees Mogg, Johnson, Gove and the like would cement it, as would Hunt - for different reasons. To go to the country early again and to fail to win outright again would kill off any serious Brexit for a very long time. You should be careful what you wish for.
0 -
Nail on head - totally agreeSouthamObserver said:
In the local election, over 50% of voters gave their backing to parties that explicitly support a continued customs union with the EU.GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
It's hard to see who the Tories could choose to replace May who would break up the Labour voting coalition - which is what the Tories need in order to win a majority. Rees Mogg, Johnson, Gove and the like would cement it, as would Hunt - for different reasons. To go to the country early again and to fail to win outright again would kill off any serious Brexit for a very long time. You should be careful what you wish for.0 -
any way 5 days of sunshine and no drought warning yet - what's up ? :-)SouthamObserver said:
In the local election, over 50% of voters gave their backing to parties that explicitly support a continued customs union with the EU.GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
It's hard to see who the Tories could choose to replace May who would break up the Labour voting coalition - which is what the Tories need in order to win a majority. Rees Mogg, Johnson, Gove and the like would cement it, as would Hunt - for different reasons. To go to the country early again and to fail to win outright again would kill off any serious Brexit for a very long time. You should be careful what you wish for.0 -
I’ve never really understood the point of Galileo, when we already have GPS. The US is fundamental to our security to a much greater extent than the EU, so why (contracts for Inmarsat aside) is public money being spent on a rival satellite system?0
-
I’ve moved on. My view has consistently the sooner we Leave the sooner we rejoin.Alanbrooke said:
if only you had the common sense of Dave to say what has happened has happened and there's no point crying over spilt milk.TheScreamingEagles said:
Did you miss the 2017 general election ?GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
The one that was going to crush the saboteurs.
Get on with life as it is not how you thought it would be
As my day job is 99% Brexit related I’m intrigued by it all.0 -
...which thanks to Brexit, we can no longer participate inGIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.0 -
Then close your eyes and lie back and think of a general election campaign fronted by Boris or JRM.GIN1138 said:TheScreamingEagles said:
Did you miss the 2017 general election ?GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
The one that was going to crush the saboteurs.
It's hard to believe Con could run another election as appalling as 2017...0 -
Brexit is ALREADY dead in the water (in any meaningful sense) Theresa May and Westminster have strangled it at birth.SouthamObserver said:. To go to the country early again and to fail to win outright again would kill off any serious Brexit for a very long time. You should be careful what you wish for.
A new leader and a final general election is the only thing that can save it now.0 -
Or kill it off for everGIN1138 said:
Brexit is ALREADY dead in the water (in any meaningful sense) Theresa May and Westminster have strangled it at birth.SouthamObserver said:. To go to the country early again and to fail to win outright again would kill off any serious Brexit for a very long time. You should be careful what you wish for.
A new leader and a final general election is the only thing that can save it now.0 -
Events since then have proven conclusively that Theresa May was not crying wolf.TheScreamingEagles said:
Did you miss the 2017 general election ?GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
The one that was going to crush the saboteurs.0 -
I cant see us rejoining in the short-medium term, and any terms offered would be on the same terms as new entrants.TheScreamingEagles said:
I’ve moved on. My view has consistently the sooner we Leave the sooner we rejoin.Alanbrooke said:
if only you had the common sense of Dave to say what has happened has happened and there's no point crying over spilt milk.TheScreamingEagles said:
Did you miss the 2017 general election ?GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
The one that was going to crush the saboteurs.
Get on with life as it is not how you thought it would be
As my day job is 99% Brexit related I’m intrigued by it all.
personally I think that will be hard to sell0 -
'Boris has failed' - but not Merkel or Macron, who also tried (and actually met Trump, unlike Boris...)rottenborough said:0 -
Boris won in London (twice) before contributing to LEAVE's victory (yes LEAVE did actually win the referendum... Not that you would believe it from Westminster's behaviour)TheScreamingEagles said:
Then close your eyes and lie back and think of a general election campaign fronted by Boris or JRM.GIN1138 said:TheScreamingEagles said:
Did you miss the 2017 general election ?GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
The one that was going to crush the saboteurs.
It's hard to believe Con could run another election as appalling as 2017...0 -
It’s about a dozen Conservative ideologues, led by Anna Soubry, Nicky Morgan and Dominic Grieve.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If an unnecessary election is called the conservatives will lose.GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
In a democracy you have to have the votes and it is only about 60 conservative mps who are ideologues out of 650 mps0 -
It is more accurate and it is not under the control of a foreign power - which, given Brexit may mean that the UK will need to replicate Galileo.RoyalBlue said:I’ve never really understood the point of Galileo, when we already have GPS. The US is fundamental to our security to a much greater extent than the EU, so why (contracts for Inmarsat aside) is public money being spent on a rival satellite system?
0 -
Ensuring a global free trade UK. That underpins our philosophy.another_richard said:
What are its aims ?TheScreamingEagles said:
We haven’t gone away you know.Alanbrooke said:
lolTheScreamingEagles said:
Party like it’s like 1999 then beg supporters of Dave and George to back her in the VONC.GIN1138 said:If The Three Brexiteers resign from the Cabinet today what does May do?
nobody supports George any more, he's the day before yesterdays man
The Provisional Wing of the Continuity Cameron Army is still active.
High housing prices, higher pensions and higher student debts ?
More trade equals more tax revenues, lower deficits and taxes.
Will help underpin a massive house building process.
Death to NIMBYism too.0 -
It will probably depend on how much older ordinance we have in the armouries. A good old war is a safe means of disposal.......rottenborough said:I humbly suggest that given we are pretty busy with Brexit, we sit out Trump's forthcoming war with Iran.
Besides, none of the current crop of politicians seems to show much sense and, no doubt, the "Someone must do something" crowd will egg the govt on with the usual outrage about how these dreadful, despicable, lying regimes must be stood up to for the good of democracy, humanity and civilisations yet to evolve.
Sorry - my cynicism glands seem to be in overload.0 -
Yes, but she got the saboteurs wrong. The idioiy of Fox, Davis and Boris has caused far more damage to the Brexit cause than any Remainer.RoyalBlue said:
Events since then have proven conclusively that Theresa May was not crying wolf.TheScreamingEagles said:
Did you miss the 2017 general election ?GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
The one that was going to crush the saboteurs.0 -
Severn Trent reservoirs are at over 97% capacity currently (I check every week).Alanbrooke said:
any way 5 days of sunshine and no drought warning yet - what's up ? :-)SouthamObserver said:
In the local election, over 50% of voters gave their backing to parties that explicitly support a continued customs union with the EU.GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
It's hard to see who the Tories could choose to replace May who would break up the Labour voting coalition - which is what the Tories need in order to win a majority. Rees Mogg, Johnson, Gove and the like would cement it, as would Hunt - for different reasons. To go to the country early again and to fail to win outright again would kill off any serious Brexit for a very long time. You should be careful what you wish for.
https://www.stwater.co.uk/about-us/reservoir-levels/
Even I am struggling to foresee a drought happening this summer. Next summer, though ...
0 -
I think you haven't quite understood the direction of trade.TheScreamingEagles said:
Ensuring a global free trade UK. That underpins our philosophy.another_richard said:
What are its aims ?TheScreamingEagles said:
We haven’t gone away you know.Alanbrooke said:
lolTheScreamingEagles said:
Party like it’s like 1999 then beg supporters of Dave and George to back her in the VONC.GIN1138 said:If The Three Brexiteers resign from the Cabinet today what does May do?
nobody supports George any more, he's the day before yesterdays man
The Provisional Wing of the Continuity Cameron Army is still active.
High housing prices, higher pensions and higher student debts ?
More trade equals more tax revenues, lower deficits and taxes.
Will help underpin a massive house building process.
Death to NIMBYism too.0 -
Certainly based on the picture it is ludicrous. The guy is holding a 12 pack of corona extra. This would be equivalent to around 19 units of alcohol which under the new Scottish law would have a minimum pricing of around £9.50. The cheapest I have seen it is at least £10 a pack so there is no saving there at all. Same goes for the Stella the other bloke is holding. Indeed I wonder how much it has cost them in petrol.malcolmg said:
What absolute garbage. I have seen no increase whatsoever in the price of beer. I don't drink any of the mental stuff so perhaps that is why , but premium beers have not changed one bit.Scott_P said:
0 -
Very naughty, Mr Sandpit. You are not supposed to be emphasising the deep divisions in the Conservative Party.Sandpit said:
It’s about a dozen Conservative ideologues, led by Anna Soubry, Nicky Morgan and Dominic Grieve.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If an unnecessary election is called the conservatives will lose.GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
In a democracy you have to have the votes and it is only about 60 conservative mps who are ideologues out of 650 mps0 -
An optimist writes:
With less than a year to go until the UK leaves the EU, the real divide is no longer between former Leavers and Remainers. Rather it is between those who, whichever way they voted, now take an optimistic view of Britain’s future and those who are entrenched in a negative outlook. While the pessimists are entitled to their view, the danger is that their continued disparagement of Britain’s prospects is itself a source of damage — reducing economic confidence and raising doubts for foreign investors. It is time we all embraced a realistic but positive stance on long-term opportunities.
https://www.ft.com/content/d55387d8-4d58-11e8-97e4-13afc22d86d4
0 -
Depends on how we Leave.Alanbrooke said:
I cant see us rejoining in the short-medium term, and any terms offered would be on the same terms as new entrants.TheScreamingEagles said:
I’ve moved on. My view has consistently the sooner we Leave the sooner we rejoin.Alanbrooke said:
if only you had the common sense of Dave to say what has happened has happened and there's no point crying over spilt milk.TheScreamingEagles said:
Did you miss the 2017 general election ?GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
The one that was going to crush the saboteurs.
Get on with life as it is not how you thought it would be
As my day job is 99% Brexit related I’m intrigued by it all.
personally I think that will be hard to sell
If it is viagra hard Brexit with supermarkets running out of food, planes grounded et al then it’ll happen.
If it is the long goodbye with a decade long transition then rejoining it won’t happen in the medium term.0 -
Boris's failure is not being able to see Trump for what he is: an American nativist whose agenda is almost entirely opposed to British interests. It's amazing what a bust of Winston Churchill and dazzling white skin can obscure.rottenborough said:
0 -
Who do you think will get the blame for that?TheScreamingEagles said:
If it is viagra hard Brexit with supermarkets running out of food, planes grounded et al then it’ll happen.Alanbrooke said:
I cant see us rejoining in the short-medium term, and any terms offered would be on the same terms as new entrants.TheScreamingEagles said:
I’ve moved on. My view has consistently the sooner we Leave the sooner we rejoin.Alanbrooke said:
if only you had the common sense of Dave to say what has happened has happened and there's no point crying over spilt milk.TheScreamingEagles said:
Did you miss the 2017 general election ?GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
The one that was going to crush the saboteurs.
Get on with life as it is not how you thought it would be
As my day job is 99% Brexit related I’m intrigued by it all.
personally I think that will be hard to sell0 -
That was then this is now.GIN1138 said:
Boris won in London (twice) before contributing to LEAVE's victory (yes LEAVE did actually win the referendum... Not that you would believe it from Westminster's behaviour)TheScreamingEagles said:
Then close your eyes and lie back and think of a general election campaign fronted by Boris or JRM.GIN1138 said:TheScreamingEagles said:
Did you miss the 2017 general election ?GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
The one that was going to crush the saboteurs.
It's hard to believe Con could run another election as appalling as 2017...
Boris is damaged goods. Thanks to Gove.0 -
Hammond would do well to take this advice.CarlottaVance said:An optimist writes:
With less than a year to go until the UK leaves the EU, the real divide is no longer between former Leavers and Remainers. Rather it is between those who, whichever way they voted, now take an optimistic view of Britain’s future and those who are entrenched in a negative outlook. While the pessimists are entitled to their view, the danger is that their continued disparagement of Britain’s prospects is itself a source of damage — reducing economic confidence and raising doubts for foreign investors. It is time we all embraced a realistic but positive stance on long-term opportunities.
https://www.ft.com/content/d55387d8-4d58-11e8-97e4-13afc22d86d40 -
Remind us what the cumulative current account balance was for 2011 to 2016:TheScreamingEagles said:
Ensuring a global free trade UK. That underpins our philosophy.another_richard said:
What are its aims ?TheScreamingEagles said:
We haven’t gone away you know.Alanbrooke said:
lolTheScreamingEagles said:
Party like it’s like 1999 then beg supporters of Dave and George to back her in the VONC.GIN1138 said:If The Three Brexiteers resign from the Cabinet today what does May do?
nobody supports George any more, he's the day before yesterdays man
The Provisional Wing of the Continuity Cameron Army is still active.
High housing prices, higher pensions and higher student debts ?
More trade equals more tax revenues, lower deficits and taxes.
Will help underpin a massive house building process.
Death to NIMBYism too.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/timeseries/hbop/pnbp
Your boys had six years in charge and the reality never matched the rhetoric in economics any more than it did for immigration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJRtDPOjQ7g0 -
If they don’t have a majority to agree the negotiated deal, then we leave without one. It’s that simple.Big_G_NorthWales said:
So the executive can impose their deal on the HOC. With respect I do not see that happening without majority supportSandpit said:
But that’s not the way it will actually work in practice. The Executive will negotiate a deal with the EU and come to Parliament with the deal. Parliament then have to decide whether we leave the EU under the terms of the negotiated deal or leave the EU to WTO terms with no deal in place. Parliament cannot unilaterally insert themselves into the negotiation process with the EU, no matter how much they would like to be involved.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
The important Brexit legislation was the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act 2017, which empowered the Executive to trigger the A50 process. It passed unamended and with a vote 494-122 at third reading in the Commons.
The Commons will have a lot of other things that need to be passed in the future, such as legislation that deals with the powers we will repatriate from the EU, but the negotiation of the actual withdrawal treaty is for the Crown-in-Parliament rather than for Parliament itself.0 -
The Mirror is not keen on the nonce-finder-general's plan:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/mps-prepare-vote-new-draconian-124979920 -
oh dear, youre just so addicted to Project FearTheScreamingEagles said:
Depends on how we Leave.Alanbrooke said:
I cant see us rejoining in the short-medium term, and any terms offered would be on the same terms as new entrants.TheScreamingEagles said:
I’ve moved on. My view has consistently the sooner we Leave the sooner we rejoin.Alanbrooke said:
if only you had the common sense of Dave to say what has happened has happened and there's no point crying over spilt milk.TheScreamingEagles said:
Did you miss the 2017 general election ?GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
The one that was going to crush the saboteurs.
Get on with life as it is not how you thought it would be
As my day job is 99% Brexit related I’m intrigued by it all.
personally I think that will be hard to sell
If it is viagra hard Brexit with supermarkets running out of food, planes grounded et al then it’ll happen.
If it is the long goodbye with a decade long transition then rejoining it won’t happen in the medium term.
which do you think will cost more jobs ?
Greg Clarks scaremongering about Brexit or Greg Clark refusing to stop Melrose asset stripping GKN and allowing an oligopoly in the supermarket sector ?0 -
It's almost as if Boris Johnson is a completely unprincipled opportunist guided solely by self-interest ...
https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/9937521841467555840 -
It started in Bruxelles will be as effective as the great financial crisis started in America meme by Gordon Brown.CarlottaVance said:
Who do you think will get the blame for that?TheScreamingEagles said:
If it is viagra hard Brexit with supermarkets running out of food, planes grounded et al then it’ll happen.Alanbrooke said:
I cant see us rejoining in the short-medium term, and any terms offered would be on the same terms as new entrants.TheScreamingEagles said:
I’ve moved on. My view has consistently the sooner we Leave the sooner we rejoin.Alanbrooke said:
if only you had the common sense of Dave to say what has happened has happened and there's no point crying over spilt milk.TheScreamingEagles said:
Did you miss the 2017 general election ?GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
The one that was going to crush the saboteurs.
Get on with life as it is not how you thought it would be
As my day job is 99% Brexit related I’m intrigued by it all.
personally I think that will be hard to sell
People like David Davis who thought Brexit would be as easy as the Anglo-Zanzibar War will get the blame.0 -
Or is it that RTE and indeed Boris do not understand collective responsibility?SouthamObserver said:It's almost as if Boris Johnson is a completely unprincipled opportunist guided solely by self-interest ...
https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/9937521841467555840 -
They haven't increased the duty. They have simply said that alcohol cannot be sold at less than 50p per unit. The extra money goes to the retailer.another_richard said:
Couldn't the Scottish government have increased alcohol duty across the board rather than aimed this tax rise at the low paid ?DavidL said:
Yes it is which makes me uncomfortable. But having seen 2 daughters through their teens in recent years loading up with "pre's" (I am not sure how to spell it to be honest) at friend's houses before they went out there is no question that there remains an issue amongst the young, even if an increasing number of them don't drink at all reducing their average.Alanbrooke said:
Isnt this just more middle class overlording ?DavidL said:
There are significant differences in price on most vodkas, some blended whiskies, cheap wine (Tesco was previously selling bottles down to £4 or even less) and cheap ciders. Some of these have almost doubled in price, especially the vodkas. As I say I personally am persuaded that this is a good thing and that really cheap alcohol was a bad thing causing serious damage to those who take it as well as adverse social consequences. But then, like you, the minimum price has not really affected me.malcolmg said:
David, surprised you are taken in by the hype. There has been little to no change , cheap muck at bottom may have gone up but any premium / quality beer / wine / spirits have not changed one iota. Unionist right wing cretinous bollox.DavidL said:
This is certainly going to hurt the border towns, at least until England does something similar. You don't have to be a fan of Nicola to wonder if alcohol at less than 50p a unit is a good idea.Scott_P said:
The middle classes and professions are currently the nation's heaviest drinkers
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/uk-most-frequent-drinkers-lawyers-doctors-city-professionals-alcohol-consumption-statistics-a8330741.html
We see the social consequences on our streets and in Scotland at least it is an issue. We drink significantly more than the English on average and it is one of the factors that reduces our life expectancies (its also a lot easier to do something about than the depressing weather and lack of sunlight for months on end). There are arguments both ways but on balance I came down in support of minimum pricing.0 -
Within a few months Project Fear could be Project Reality.Alanbrooke said:
oh dear, youre just so addicted to Project FearTheScreamingEagles said:
Depends on how we Leave.Alanbrooke said:
I cant see us rejoining in the short-medium term, and any terms offered would be on the same terms as new entrants.TheScreamingEagles said:
I’ve moved on. My view has consistently the sooner we Leave the sooner we rejoin.Alanbrooke said:
if only you had the common sense of Dave to say what has happened has happened and there's no point crying over spilt milk.TheScreamingEagles said:
Did you miss the 2017 general election ?GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
The one that was going to crush the saboteurs.
Get on with life as it is not how you thought it would be
As my day job is 99% Brexit related I’m intrigued by it all.
personally I think that will be hard to sell
If it is viagra hard Brexit with supermarkets running out of food, planes grounded et al then it’ll happen.
If it is the long goodbye with a decade long transition then rejoining it won’t happen in the medium term.
which do you think will cost more jobs ?
Greg Clarks scaremongering about Brexit or Greg Clark refusing to stop Melrose asset stripping GKN and allowing an oligopoly in the supermarket sector ?
I did warn you at the time.0 -
But the polls already show voters thinking the EU are not playing fair.....there'll be plenty of blame to go round - and the EU will get its share of it....fair or otherwise......'Lets re-join the club that grounded our planes' will be a tough sell.....TheScreamingEagles said:
It started in Bruxelles will be as effective as the great financial crisis started in America.CarlottaVance said:
Who do you think will get the blame for that?TheScreamingEagles said:
If it is viagra hard Brexit with supermarkets running out of food, planes grounded et al then it’ll happen.Alanbrooke said:
I cant see us rejoining in the short-medium term, and any terms offered would be on the same terms as new entrants.TheScreamingEagles said:
I’ve moved on. My view has consistently the sooner we Leave the sooner we rejoin.Alanbrooke said:
if only you had the common sense of Dave to say what has happened has happened and there's no point crying over spilt milk.TheScreamingEagles said:
Did you miss the 2017 general election ?GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
The one that was going to crush the saboteurs.
Get on with life as it is not how you thought it would be
As my day job is 99% Brexit related I’m intrigued by it all.
personally I think that will be hard to sell0 -
Which is completely right. Those who see Brexit as an excercise in damage mitigation are likely to see that result. Those who see it as a global opportunity for growth are more likely to see that result. Which do we want?CarlottaVance said:An optimist writes:
With less than a year to go until the UK leaves the EU, the real divide is no longer between former Leavers and Remainers. Rather it is between those who, whichever way they voted, now take an optimistic view of Britain’s future and those who are entrenched in a negative outlook. While the pessimists are entitled to their view, the danger is that their continued disparagement of Britain’s prospects is itself a source of damage — reducing economic confidence and raising doubts for foreign investors. It is time we all embraced a realistic but positive stance on long-term opportunities.
https://www.ft.com/content/d55387d8-4d58-11e8-97e4-13afc22d86d40 -
Completely agree. I was not intending to suggest that the SM was the cause of our woes. It has simply done nothing to address them. As usual Brexit is not really the issue.SouthamObserver said:
They are much older than the Single Market. As discussed on here many times in the past, the UK's managerial class is shockingly lightweight. This country's overriding business philosophy is all about cutting to the bone instead of investing, getting by instead of planning, competing on price instead of on quality. What does that leave us with? Products that people do not want to buy produced by demoralised workforces with no incentive to do more than the bare minimum.DavidL said:
What we really need is to improve our productivity markedly increasing competitiveness without depreciating the currency as the Germans have repeatedly done. But that is a much more complex, longer term solution.another_richard said:
The "ra-ra-ra the pound is going up" cheering during the winter really was idiotic.DavidL said:
I think it is absolutely clear that the UK economy has lost a considerable amount of momentum. The interest rate increase pencilled in for this month is surely off.AlastairMeeks said:
We are finally seeing the consequences of an extended period of falling real wages on demand. The M1 figures are a consequence of that. The important thing for the UK is get output back in line with supply. If we can increase exports to offset this fall in demand this will be good for UK plc in the medium term, even if it is unpleasant in the short term. Unfortunately, I do not think we will be the only country that suffers from this. Much of the EZ is showing less promise than it did in January.
There's only two ways in which the UK can get growth:
1) Export led requiring low sterling and growth in other countries
2) Borrow and spend ie stealing growth from the future
What I am finding mildly irritating at the moment is people "finding" these long term, chronic problems in our economy and trying to claim that they have something to do with Brexit. The detail of these problems evolving whilst we were in the SM seems to completely pass them by.
It's notable that in the service areas where we are top notch, people do tend to be paid well and businesses do invest and plan for the long term. There's a lesson there somewhere.0 -
Yes that's true. But there was a 14% swing CON to LD in both the Twickenham and Richmond Park parts of the borough. Kingston was similar.Sean_F said:
The Lib Dems had a huge lead in Twickenham, but only a 1% lead in Richmond Park, which suggests another tight contest.Barnesian said:
Maybe also Lewes (11.3%), Hazel Grove (11.3%) and St Albans (12.5%)Sandpit said:
Yes, good spot.HYUFD said:
St Ives?Sandpit said:
But how marginal are most of them now? Richmond Park, Cheadle, Devon N, Cheltenham, maybe St Albans, but where else are the LDs within 10% of the Con incumbent?not_on_fire said:
Umm, LibDem/Con marginals?Sandpit said:
Yeahbut London was turned into an awesome sea of red so nothing else counts.CarlottaVance said:Another perspective on 'the best Labour performance since 1971':
ttps://twitter.com/colinrtalbot/status/992744992715223040
Meanwhile, in Nuneaton, Morley, Newcastle -U-L, Dudley etc the trend is all blue. Guess where a general election is won and lost?
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html
That's seven achievable on a 6% swing Con to LD.
In Richmond locals there was a 14% swing Con to LD.
There's also Sheffield Hallam, NE Fife and Ceredigion making ten achievable gains - nearly doubling the LD seats to 22 where it could make a difference.
There are nineteen Con/LD marginals that would fall to the LDs on a 14% swing. That's probably the upper limit!0 -
When the UK finds itself in a pickle we’re prepared to do bold things. Heck in the past we came close to merging the UK with France.CarlottaVance said:But the polls already show voters thinking the EU are not playing fair.....there'll be plenty of blame to go round - and the EU will get its share of it....fair or otherwise......'Lets re-join the club that grounded our planes' will be a tough sell.....
0 -
Yep. You were wrong then and you are wrong now.TheScreamingEagles said:
Within a few months Project Fear could be Project Reality.Alanbrooke said:
oh dear, youre just so addicted to Project FearTheScreamingEagles said:
Depends on how we Leave.Alanbrooke said:
I cant see us rejoining in the short-medium term, and any terms offered would be on the same terms as new entrants.TheScreamingEagles said:
I’ve moved on. My view has consistently the sooner we Leave the sooner we rejoin.Alanbrooke said:
if only you had the common sense of Dave to say what has happened has happened and there's no point crying over spilt milk.TheScreamingEagles said:
Did you miss the 2017 general election ?GIN1138 said:
So you get rid of Theresa May and then change the numbers by having another general election under a new Con leader.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it would not make a jot of difference. You cannot alter the basic law of mathematics. There are not the votes in the HOC or HOL to approve a hard BrexitGIN1138 said:
It's not rocket science.
There's an assumption that whatever is thrown at Brexiteers and Brexit voters they just have suck it up. That assumption is false.
The local elections looked like the start of Brexit voters beginning to reassert their authority - Time for Brexiteers at Westminster to do the same.
The one that was going to crush the saboteurs.
Get on with life as it is not how you thought it would be
As my day job is 99% Brexit related I’m intrigued by it all.
personally I think that will be hard to sell
If it is viagra hard Brexit with supermarkets running out of food, planes grounded et al then it’ll happen.
If it is the long goodbye with a decade long transition then rejoining it won’t happen in the medium term.
which do you think will cost more jobs ?
Greg Clarks scaremongering about Brexit or Greg Clark refusing to stop Melrose asset stripping GKN and allowing an oligopoly in the supermarket sector ?
I did warn you at the time.0 -
Plus some seats the LDs lost to Labour in 2015 if Corbyn's Brexit position refuses to budgeBarnesian said:
Yes that's true. But there was a 14% swing CON to LD in both the Twickenham and Richmond Park parts of the borough. Kingston was similar.Sean_F said:
The Lib Dems had a huge lead in Twickenham, but only a 1% lead in Richmond Park, which suggests another tight contest.Barnesian said:
Maybe also Lewes (11.3%), Hazel Grove (11.3%) and St Albans (12.5%)Sandpit said:
Yes, good spot.HYUFD said:
St Ives?Sandpit said:
But how marginal are most of them now? Richmond Park, Cheadle, Devon N, Cheltenham, maybe St Albans, but where else are the LDs within 10% of the Con incumbent?not_on_fire said:
Umm, LibDem/Con marginals?Sandpit said:
Yeahbut London was turned into an awesome sea of red so nothing else counts.CarlottaVance said:Another perspective on 'the best Labour performance since 1971':
ttps://twitter.com/colinrtalbot/status/992744992715223040
Meanwhile, in Nuneaton, Morley, Newcastle -U-L, Dudley etc the trend is all blue. Guess where a general election is won and lost?
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html
That's seven achievable on a 6% swing Con to LD.
In Richmond locals there was a 14% swing Con to LD.
There's also Sheffield Hallam, NE Fife and Ceredigion making ten achievable gains - nearly doubling the LD seats to 22 where it could make a difference.
There are nineteen Con/LD marginals that would fall to the LDs on a 14% swing. That's probably the upper limit!0 -
This discussion has been closed.