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Indeed. I was giving her the benefit of the doubt on that. My point is that even with the best interpretation of events, she's been utterly incompetent. There must be many people far more competent within the Labour movement who would be better fill her roles.Floater said:
Another interpretation is that she wasn't bothered by such claims so no point actually investigating.JosiasJessop said:Of course Christine Shawcroft should resign. What is more, Labour people should be encouraging her to go.
Why?
She's incompetent, and should be nowhere near any position of authority.
Let's take a look at her own words: "I sent this email before being aware of the full information about this case and I had not been shown the image of his abhorrent Facebook post. Had I seen this image, I would not have requested that the decision to suspend him be re-considered. I am deeply sorry for having done so."
So she was in a position to investigate an alleged offence, yet she sided strongly one way and tried to influence matters without even reading the evidence.
If you choose not to take the best interpretation of events, then there is even more reason for her to resign.0 -
Can't see what is wrong with what she said in her own words there.JosiasJessop said:Of course Christine Shawcroft should resign. What is more, Labour people should be encouraging her to go.
Why?
She's incompetent, and should be nowhere near any position of authority.
Let's take a look at her own words: "I sent this email before being aware of the full information about this case and I had not been shown the image of his abhorrent Facebook post. Had I seen this image, I would not have requested that the decision to suspend him be re-considered. I am deeply sorry for having done so."
So she was in a position to investigate an alleged offence, yet she sided strongly one way and tried to influence matters without even reading the evidence.
Not having the full case does not equal being incompetent. Now if she deliberately avoided having the full case because she is incompetent that might be a different matter....
Trial by media has already come to a decision though.0 -
Is Chief of Clan Kerr rhyming slang?JackW said:
What, all of them at once !!!Sean_F said:
Aristocrats should be proud to use their titles.Anazina said:
No need to call her by her husband's name – somewhat old fashioned and patronising and certainly not like you!TheScreamingEagles said:That Labour voter split though, no wonder Sir Keir made his intervention last night after Lady Nugee’s prediction.
Michael Ancram would have no time for anything else :
Marquess of Lothian is a title in the Peerage of Scotland. It was created in 1701 for Robert Kerr, 4th Earl of Lothian. The Marquess of Lothian holds the subsidiary titles of Earl of Lothian (created 1606), Earl of Lothian (created again 1631), Earl of Ancram (1633), Earl of Ancram (created again 1701), Viscount of Briene (1701), Lord Newbattle (1591), Lord Jedburgh (1622), Lord Kerr of Newbattle (1631), Lord Kerr of Nisbet, Langnewtoun, and Dolphinstoun (1633), Lord Kerr of Newbattle, Oxnam, Jedburgh, Dolphinstoun and Nisbet (1701), and Baron Ker, of Kersheugh in the County of Roxburgh (1821) and Baron Kerr of Monteviot (2010) all but the last two in the Peerage of Scotland. The holder of the title is also the Chief of Clan Kerr.
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@peston: So the way to combat anti-semitism is to smear British muslims in the most disgusting way, and accuse Labour of the most hideous calculating racism? This is appalling beyond words
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/979331640987176960?s=21
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Scottish peers do it so much better ..TheScreamingEagles said:We all know Scottish nobility are overcompensating
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I always like such titles as The Dunlop, or Moncrieff of that Ilk.JackW said:
Scottish peers do it so much better ..TheScreamingEagles said:We all know Scottish nobility are overcompensating
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Wasnt her excuse that the candidate had done a lot of work and might be successful? If the issue was something other than anti-semitism do you think the benefit of the doubt would be there?TheJezziah said:
Can't see what is wrong with what she said in her own words there.JosiasJessop said:Of course Christine Shawcroft should resign. What is more, Labour people should be encouraging her to go.
Why?
She's incompetent, and should be nowhere near any position of authority.
Let's take a look at her own words: "I sent this email before being aware of the full information about this case and I had not been shown the image of his abhorrent Facebook post. Had I seen this image, I would not have requested that the decision to suspend him be re-considered. I am deeply sorry for having done so."
So she was in a position to investigate an alleged offence, yet she sided strongly one way and tried to influence matters without even reading the evidence.
Not having the full case does not equal being incompetent. Now if she deliberately avoided having the full case because she is incompetent that might be a different matter....
Trial by media has already come to a decision though.
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Yes but some people seem to miss the idea that there is something between, doesn't exist at all in any form and endemic throughout the party because of the leadership. Not that it is impossible not to but usually propaganda takes the form of partial truths or based on truths. Take the article I was responding too, they'll mix in real incidents with a spun version of incidents to complete falsehoods they presumably haven't checked out.JosiasJessop said:
They might think Labour has a problem with antisemitism because a load of Labour people admit it has? Including - eventually - your leader:TheJezziah said:
Well this is a great start... only a few paragraphs in and....AndyJS said:
____________________________
This was barely a month after Corbyn issued a Facebook post for Holocaust Memorial Day that included no mention of Jews or anti-Semitism. Following an outcry, Corbyn made public another message, this one mentioning “our Jewish brothers and sisters.”
________________________
Except in the words of Stephen Pollard (who hates Jeremy Corbyn)
https://twitter.com/stephenpollard/status/956915608876175361?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/national/article/Apology-offered-to-Corbyn-amid-controversy-over-Holocaust-comments-06efdcf9-c71c-4e24-9b2d-8ecba01c5873-ds
I wonder why Jewish people think Labour are racist against them... I wonder if I added a couple of real incidents and made up a bunch of stuff or spun several things carefully and had the media repeat them endlessly if I could convince other groups that parties were racist against them?
But don't claim the issue has been weaponised because apparently, that is also anti-semitic....
“I recognise that antisemitism has surfaced within the Labour party, and has too often been dismissed as simply a matter of a few bad apples.”
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/978313237132468224
That is how you weaponise an issue, the fact it exists doesn't stop that process, just gives part of the story created a factual basis. It can often be how any decent propaganda works, the ones based on complete lies fall down straight away.
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Eeesh that ComRes poll had 2016 vote recall with Leave 12% ahead.
https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/979273018013777927?s=210 -
Misses a trick, he should have held out for Lord Kerr of Kerr, so he could be Of That Ilk.JackW said:
What, all of them at once !!!Sean_F said:
Aristocrats should be proud to use their titles.Anazina said:
No need to call her by her husband's name – somewhat old fashioned and patronising and certainly not like you!TheScreamingEagles said:That Labour voter split though, no wonder Sir Keir made his intervention last night after Lady Nugee’s prediction.
Michael Ancram would have no time for anything else :
Marquess of Lothian is a title in the Peerage of Scotland. It was created in 1701 for Robert Kerr, 4th Earl of Lothian. The Marquess of Lothian holds the subsidiary titles of Earl of Lothian (created 1606), Earl of Lothian (created again 1631), Earl of Ancram (1633), Earl of Ancram (created again 1701), Viscount of Briene (1701), Lord Newbattle (1591), Lord Jedburgh (1622), Lord Kerr of Newbattle (1631), Lord Kerr of Nisbet, Langnewtoun, and Dolphinstoun (1633), Lord Kerr of Newbattle, Oxnam, Jedburgh, Dolphinstoun and Nisbet (1701), and Baron Ker, of Kersheugh in the County of Roxburgh (1821) and Baron Kerr of Monteviot (2010) all but the last two in the Peerage of Scotland. The holder of the title is also the Chief of Clan Kerr.0 -
I don't remember seeing you and 619 in the same room ever.TheJezziah said:
Yes but some people seem to miss the idea that there is something between, doesn't exist at all in any form and endemic throughout the party because of the leadership. Not that it is impossible not to but usually propaganda takes the form of partial truths or based on truths. Take the article I was responding too, they'll mix in real incidents with a spun version of incidents to complete falsehoods they presumably haven't checked out.JosiasJessop said:
They might think Labour has a problem with antisemitism because a load of Labour people admit it has? Including - eventually - your leader:TheJezziah said:
Well this is a great start... only a few paragraphs in and....AndyJS said:
____________________________
This was barely a month after Corbyn issued a Facebook post for Holocaust Memorial Day that included no mention of Jews or anti-Semitism. Following an outcry, Corbyn made public another message, this one mentioning “our Jewish brothers and sisters.”
________________________
Except in the words of Stephen Pollard (who hates Jeremy Corbyn)
https://twitter.com/stephenpollard/status/956915608876175361?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/national/article/Apology-offered-to-Corbyn-amid-controversy-over-Holocaust-comments-06efdcf9-c71c-4e24-9b2d-8ecba01c5873-ds
I wonder why Jewish people think Labour are racist against them... I wonder if I added a couple of real incidents and made up a bunch of stuff or spun several things carefully and had the media repeat them endlessly if I could convince other groups that parties were racist against them?
But don't claim the issue has been weaponised because apparently, that is also anti-semitic....
“I recognise that antisemitism has surfaced within the Labour party, and has too often been dismissed as simply a matter of a few bad apples.”
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/978313237132468224
That is how you weaponise an issue, the fact it exists doesn't stop that process, just gives part of the story created a factual basis. It can often be how any decent propaganda works, the ones based on complete lies fall down straight away.0 -
The image is hardly 'the full case': it was *central* to the case. There is no way she should have been sending such emails before even seeing the evidence.TheJezziah said:
Can't see what is wrong with what she said in her own words there.JosiasJessop said:Of course Christine Shawcroft should resign. What is more, Labour people should be encouraging her to go.
Why?
She's incompetent, and should be nowhere near any position of authority.
Let's take a look at her own words: "I sent this email before being aware of the full information about this case and I had not been shown the image of his abhorrent Facebook post. Had I seen this image, I would not have requested that the decision to suspend him be re-considered. I am deeply sorry for having done so."
So she was in a position to investigate an alleged offence, yet she sided strongly one way and tried to influence matters without even reading the evidence.
Not having the full case does not equal being incompetent. Now if she deliberately avoided having the full case because she is incompetent that might be a different matter....
Trial by media has already come to a decision though.
To compound matters, she intervened strongly on one side, and invented a conspiracy theory to absolve the person!
As I said, utter incompetence at best. There must be far more capable people who could be on the NEC.0 -
Sir Iain Moncrieff of that Ilk was quite a character ..Sean_F said:I always like such titles as The Dunlop, or Moncrieff of that Ilk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iain_Moncreiffe0 -
notme said:
Wasnt her excuse that the candidate had done a lot of work and might be successful? If the issue was something other than anti-semitism do you think the benefit of the doubt would be there?TheJezziah said:
Can't see what is wrong with what she said in her own words there.JosiasJessop said:Of course Christine Shawcroft should resign. What is more, Labour people should be encouraging her to go.
Why?
She's incompetent, and should be nowhere near any position of authority.
Let's take a look at her own words: "I sent this email before being aware of the full information about this case and I had not been shown the image of his abhorrent Facebook post. Had I seen this image, I would not have requested that the decision to suspend him be re-considered. I am deeply sorry for having done so."
So she was in a position to investigate an alleged offence, yet she sided strongly one way and tried to influence matters without even reading the evidence.
Not having the full case does not equal being incompetent. Now if she deliberately avoided having the full case because she is incompetent that might be a different matter....
Trial by media has already come to a decision though.
I think Shawcross is known to be very partisan towards far left/Momentum supporters and has some history of being forceful at getting her way - this time wrongly.0 -
You may want to read the following:TheJezziah said:Yes but some people seem to miss the idea that there is something between, doesn't exist at all in any form and endemic throughout the party because of the leadership. Not that it is impossible not to but usually propaganda takes the form of partial truths or based on truths. Take the article I was responding too, they'll mix in real incidents with a spun version of incidents to complete falsehoods they presumably haven't checked out.
That is how you weaponise an issue, the fact it exists doesn't stop that process, just gives part of the story created a factual basis. It can often be how any decent propaganda works, the ones based on complete lies fall down straight away.
https://www.ehow.com/how_2049858_make-tinfoil-hat.html0 -
In the absence of any proof stating so should we just assume so because she is left wing?notme said:
Wasnt her excuse that the candidate had done a lot of work and might be successful? If the issue was something other than anti-semitism do you think the benefit of the doubt would be there?TheJezziah said:
Can't see what is wrong with what she said in her own words there.JosiasJessop said:Of course Christine Shawcroft should resign. What is more, Labour people should be encouraging her to go.
Why?
She's incompetent, and should be nowhere near any position of authority.
Let's take a look at her own words: "I sent this email before being aware of the full information about this case and I had not been shown the image of his abhorrent Facebook post. Had I seen this image, I would not have requested that the decision to suspend him be re-considered. I am deeply sorry for having done so."
So she was in a position to investigate an alleged offence, yet she sided strongly one way and tried to influence matters without even reading the evidence.
Not having the full case does not equal being incompetent. Now if she deliberately avoided having the full case because she is incompetent that might be a different matter....
Trial by media has already come to a decision though.0 -
Wish people would not conflate religion with race... (for those wondering, Judaism, orthodox anyway, is via the female line, you cannot convert, hence Judaism (also Sikhism) being both a religion and an ethnic group). Islam is not a race. Muslims are not a race. They're a religion and believers, respectively.
https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/979338949935104000
Mr. T's tweet does remind me a little of Trevor Philips' programme some time ago, polling a large number of British Muslims anonymously and finding concerning levels of support for homophobia etc.
However, whilst these are genuine concerns, and we shouldn't hide them or pretend they don't exist (to be culturally sensitive), it's important to assess them in an objective, austere manner. Otherwise it easily descends into a slanging match (and it's a lot easier to point and shout 'racist!' [wrongly] than it is to refute statistical evidence).0 -
Ha!JosiasJessop said:You may want to read the following:
https://www.ehow.com/how_2049858_make-tinfoil-hat.html
The Interweb can track anyone that clicks on that link...
I am not falling for it0 -
Are you accusing the pollster of funny business?TheScreamingEagles said:Eeesh that ComRes poll had 2016 vote recall with Leave 12% ahead.
https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/979273018013777927?s=21
I thought as time went by, fewer people would admit to voting leave. Just saying...0 -
It isn't a smear to say that someone votes Labour, is it? And, yes, if the debate is about Labour being antisemitic, the fact of their being guilty of the most hideous calculating racism is surely germane? Peston was useless as an economic commentator, but he plumbs new depths when he tries to do politics.TheScreamingEagles said:@peston: So the way to combat anti-semitism is to smear British muslims in the most disgusting way, and accuse Labour of the most hideous calculating racism? This is appalling beyond words
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/979331640987176960?s=210 -
Mr. Eagles, could be false retention rate, though. With so many people believing we should respect the vote, false recall is possible (or it could be a wonky sample but, as you suggest, if it is then that could skew the other findings).0
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Sorry, are you claiming propaganda doesn't exist?JosiasJessop said:
You may want to read the following:TheJezziah said:Yes but some people seem to miss the idea that there is something between, doesn't exist at all in any form and endemic throughout the party because of the leadership. Not that it is impossible not to but usually propaganda takes the form of partial truths or based on truths. Take the article I was responding too, they'll mix in real incidents with a spun version of incidents to complete falsehoods they presumably haven't checked out.
That is how you weaponise an issue, the fact it exists doesn't stop that process, just gives part of the story created a factual basis. It can often be how any decent propaganda works, the ones based on complete lies fall down straight away.
https://www.ehow.com/how_2049858_make-tinfoil-hat.html
Whilst I make my tinfoil hat can I show you this excellent bridge I have for sale?0 -
If you prefer we can give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that she didn't bother to look at the evidence because she's a halfwit, not because she's a nasty piece of work who is so partisan that she didn't want to act against a fellow hard-left extremist.TheJezziah said:
In the absence of any proof stating so should we just assume so because she is left wing?notme said:
Wasnt her excuse that the candidate had done a lot of work and might be successful? If the issue was something other than anti-semitism do you think the benefit of the doubt would be there?TheJezziah said:
Can't see what is wrong with what she said in her own words there.JosiasJessop said:Of course Christine Shawcroft should resign. What is more, Labour people should be encouraging her to go.
Why?
She's incompetent, and should be nowhere near any position of authority.
Let's take a look at her own words: "I sent this email before being aware of the full information about this case and I had not been shown the image of his abhorrent Facebook post. Had I seen this image, I would not have requested that the decision to suspend him be re-considered. I am deeply sorry for having done so."
So she was in a position to investigate an alleged offence, yet she sided strongly one way and tried to influence matters without even reading the evidence.
Not having the full case does not equal being incompetent. Now if she deliberately avoided having the full case because she is incompetent that might be a different matter....
Trial by media has already come to a decision though.
Is that better?0 -
. https://www.thecanary.co/uk/analysis/2018/03/28/reminder-israel-put-up-a-1000000-bounty-for-labour-insiders-to-undermine-corbyn/ Maybe they were reading this.Floater said:
What group could they possibly mean?AndyJS said:"Thousands of Jeremy Corbyn supporters endorse letter saying Jewish-organised antisemitism protest was the work of 'very powerful special interest group'"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-antisemitism-protest-powerful-special-interest-group-jewish-a8278761.html0 -
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That omits the best bit about him, which was his habit of attacking other peoples' Porsches with a lump hammer because they had no right to put that coat of arms on the bonnet.JackW said:
Sir Iain Moncrieff of that Ilk was quite a character ..Sean_F said:I always like such titles as The Dunlop, or Moncrieff of that Ilk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iain_Moncreiffe0 -
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Who’s in charge of Leave.EU these days? Someone needs to tell them that this sort of intervention isn’t helpful. Let Labour dig their own hole.TheScreamingEagles said:@peston: So the way to combat anti-semitism is to smear British muslims in the most disgusting way, and accuse Labour of the most hideous calculating racism? This is appalling beyond words
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/979331640987176960?s=210 -
I don't think suggesting somebody in Labour might have 'political enemies' is really a conspiracy theory...JosiasJessop said:
The image is hardly 'the full case': it was *central* to the case. There is no way she should have been sending such emails before even seeing the evidence.TheJezziah said:
Can't see what is wrong with what she said in her own words there.JosiasJessop said:Of course Christine Shawcroft should resign. What is more, Labour people should be encouraging her to go.
Why?
She's incompetent, and should be nowhere near any position of authority.
Let's take a look at her own words: "I sent this email before being aware of the full information about this case and I had not been shown the image of his abhorrent Facebook post. Had I seen this image, I would not have requested that the decision to suspend him be re-considered. I am deeply sorry for having done so."
So she was in a position to investigate an alleged offence, yet she sided strongly one way and tried to influence matters without even reading the evidence.
Not having the full case does not equal being incompetent. Now if she deliberately avoided having the full case because she is incompetent that might be a different matter....
Trial by media has already come to a decision though.
To compound matters, she intervened strongly on one side, and invented a conspiracy theory to absolve the person!
As I said, utter incompetence at best. There must be far more capable people who could be on the NEC.
Quite frankly I imagine a fair few of them have political enemies!
Considering Eddie Izzard was next in line then no there certainly isn't. Although the media would certainly prefer him on there.0 -
Oooh, I like bridges! (Except for the Garden Bridge, of course). Is it a nice one - is it arched? Suspension? Cable-stayed? Truss?TheJezziah said:
Sorry, are you claiming propaganda doesn't exist?JosiasJessop said:
You may want to read the following:TheJezziah said:Yes but some people seem to miss the idea that there is something between, doesn't exist at all in any form and endemic throughout the party because of the leadership. Not that it is impossible not to but usually propaganda takes the form of partial truths or based on truths. Take the article I was responding too, they'll mix in real incidents with a spun version of incidents to complete falsehoods they presumably haven't checked out.
That is how you weaponise an issue, the fact it exists doesn't stop that process, just gives part of the story created a factual basis. It can often be how any decent propaganda works, the ones based on complete lies fall down straight away.
https://www.ehow.com/how_2049858_make-tinfoil-hat.html
Whilst I make my tinfoil hat can I show you this excellent bridge I have for sale?
No, I am not claiming propaganda does not exist. Just that you might be using it is an excuse to hide facts you find uncomfortable.0 -
I am astounded that people should conflate turkeys doing whatever at Christmas with Jewish and Muslim voters.TheScreamingEagles said:@peston: So the way to combat anti-semitism is to smear British muslims in the most disgusting way, and accuse Labour of the most hideous calculating racism? This is appalling beyond words
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/979331640987176960?s=210 -
(in)Breeding will out.Ishmael_Z said:
That omits the best bit about him, which was his habit of attacking other peoples' Porsches with a lump hammer because they had no right to put that coat of arms on the bonnet.JackW said:
Sir Iain Moncrieff of that Ilk was quite a character ..Sean_F said:I always like such titles as The Dunlop, or Moncrieff of that Ilk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iain_Moncreiffe0 -
King Cole, still not as good as the 'good Jewish boy' on The Apprentice being assigned to buy a kosher chicken and getting a halal one.0
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41241353
_________________________________________
The study also revealed that anti-Semitic attitudes were higher than normal among people who classified their politics as "very right-wing".
Among this group they were two to four times higher than among the general population.
The researchers said the prevalence was considerably higher among right-wingers than on the left.
____________________________________________
No real surprise there to anyone who pays attention. Now please tell me again how it is all the Labour party and any suggestion the media have made an effort to paint Labour that way is a conspiracy theory...
Which also agrees with the other survey I've linked to a few times on here which showed more anti-semitic attitudes on the right than the left.
One thing you will get more with the left though is criticism of Israel.
I'll let you make your own conclusion there before I get accused of 'anti-semitic conspiracy theories'...
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Nope. Keiran’s a respected pollster as is Pat Sturgis.tlg86 said:
Are you accusing the pollster of funny business?TheScreamingEagles said:Eeesh that ComRes poll had 2016 vote recall with Leave 12% ahead.
https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/979273018013777927?s=21
I thought as time went by, fewer people would admit to voting leave. Just saying...
To jump from a 4% Leave lead to a 12% Leave lead in recall should have led to additional weighting adjustments.
False recall is usually a few points, which the pollsters normally adjust for.
For example YouGov used to have the occasional panel that elected a Tory govt in 2005 and a Labour govt in 2010.
They adjusted for it.0 -
Philip_Thompson said:
The domestic market.williamglenn said:
Quite right.
Businesses in the Uk who have no export business to other EU countries still have to follow the EU regulations for products sold in the UK.
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This is the kind of thing they’ve been doing from the beginning.Sandpit said:
Who’s in charge of Leave.EU these days? Someone needs to tell them that this sort of intervention isn’t helpful. Let Labour dig their own hole.TheScreamingEagles said:@peston: So the way to combat anti-semitism is to smear British muslims in the most disgusting way, and accuse Labour of the most hideous calculating racism? This is appalling beyond words
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/979331640987176960?s=210 -
Yes of course - Labour hold!TheScreamingEagles said:
There’s one in Huyton.slade said:It appears there are no principal local authority by-elections today. The only contests I can see are for two seats on Conway community council.
https://www.knowsley.gov.uk/knowsleycouncil/media/Documents/notice-of-election-page-moss-mar-2018.pdf0 -
Do you think UK consumers object to this?David_Evershed said:Philip_Thompson said:
The domestic market.williamglenn said:
Quite right.
Businesses in the Uk who have no export business to other EU countries still have to follow the EU regulations for products sold in the UK.0 -
Its a couple of planks over a river bank... budgets are a bit tighter in the valleys, still rustic value an all......JosiasJessop said:
Oooh, I like bridges! (Except for the Garden Bridge, of course). Is it a nice one - is it arched? Suspension? Cable-stayed? Truss?TheJezziah said:
Sorry, are you claiming propaganda doesn't exist?JosiasJessop said:
You may want to read the following:TheJezziah said:Yes but some people seem to miss the idea that there is something between, doesn't exist at all in any form and endemic throughout the party because of the leadership. Not that it is impossible not to but usually propaganda takes the form of partial truths or based on truths. Take the article I was responding too, they'll mix in real incidents with a spun version of incidents to complete falsehoods they presumably haven't checked out.
That is how you weaponise an issue, the fact it exists doesn't stop that process, just gives part of the story created a factual basis. It can often be how any decent propaganda works, the ones based on complete lies fall down straight away.
https://www.ehow.com/how_2049858_make-tinfoil-hat.html
Whilst I make my tinfoil hat can I show you this excellent bridge I have for sale?
No, I am not claiming propaganda does not exist. Just that you might be using it is an excuse to hide facts you find uncomfortable.
Almost every other issue has been pressed by the media regarding Corbyn, I'm sure most people would agree beyond reasonable levels. I am not sure exactly why the media would very much use propaganda against Corbyn in almost every other issue but only report this one issue straight down the line with absolutely no spin just facts.
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Yes an amusing scene - Lord Sugar did suggest the poor bloke take his trousers down so they could confirm if he was actually Jewish.Morris_Dancer said:King Cole, still not as good as the 'good Jewish boy' on The Apprentice being assigned to buy a kosher chicken and getting a halal one.
https://youtu.be/1G256H_Q0bI0 -
Yulia Skripal is “improving rapidly and is no longer in a critical condition.
Her condition is now stable”, Salisbury NHS Trust has said.
However, her father, the former double agent Sergei Skripal, remains in a critical but stable condition.
Dr Christine Blanshard, medical director for Salisbury district hospital, said: “I’m pleased to be able to report an improvement in the condition of Yulia Skripal.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/29/yulia-skripal-no-longer-in-critical-condition-says-salisbury-nhs?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other0 -
It would be interesting to see a time series for the recall data. Does seem a bit of a surprise to see more people remembering voting leave - especially when you consider the age profile of leave voters.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope. Keiran’s a respected pollster as is Pat Sturgis.tlg86 said:
Are you accusing the pollster of funny business?TheScreamingEagles said:Eeesh that ComRes poll had 2016 vote recall with Leave 12% ahead.
https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/979273018013777927?s=21
I thought as time went by, fewer people would admit to voting leave. Just saying...
To jump from a 4% Leave lead to a 12% Leave lead in recall should have led to additional weighting adjustments.
False recall is usually a few points, which the pollsters normally adjust for.
For example YouGov used to have the occasional panel that elected a Tory govt in 2005 and a Labour govt in 2010.
They adjusted for it.0 -
Indeed; there are some silly people about!Morris_Dancer said:King Cole, still not as good as the 'good Jewish boy' on The Apprentice being assigned to buy a kosher chicken and getting a halal one.
0 -
Unhelpful - but Perhaps too close to the truth.Sandpit said:
Who’s in charge of Leave.EU these days? Someone needs to tell them that this sort of intervention isn’t helpful. Let Labour dig their own hole.TheScreamingEagles said:@peston: So the way to combat anti-semitism is to smear British muslims in the most disgusting way, and accuse Labour of the most hideous calculating racism? This is appalling beyond words
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/979331640987176960?s=210 -
Yes, but they used to be Farage’s mob and he’d be around to defend their just-about-not-racist tweets. All they’ve done with that comment is drawn attention away from Labour’s myriad just-about-not-antisemitic posts.williamglenn said:
This is the kind of thing they’ve been doing from the beginning.Sandpit said:
Who’s in charge of Leave.EU these days? Someone needs to tell them that this sort of intervention isn’t helpful. Let Labour dig their own hole.TheScreamingEagles said:@peston: So the way to combat anti-semitism is to smear British muslims in the most disgusting way, and accuse Labour of the most hideous calculating racism? This is appalling beyond words
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/979331640987176960?s=210 -
Mr. 16, but if he were Muslim he'd look just the same!
Mr. Eagles, don't forget that sometimes you just end up with a wonky sample. Even proper psych surveys/questionnaires aim for a p value of 0.95 plus (meaning that up to 1:20 of the results will just be wrong due to statistical variance or getting an odd case).0 -
Liverpool FC have a 78% pay gap.
Which is only 35% when you exclude the first team squad.
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/liverpool-news-transfers-live-roma-144680710 -
Perhaps explaining why Britain wants to be more like Canada 2018 rather than Canada from 1868 onwards until the mid 20th century. A truly independent nation setting its own laws, immigration and trade policies rather than a dominion perhaps?CarlottaVance said:Long read - Matthew Goodwin explains the state of play on Brexit for our Canadian friends:
https://www.opencanada.org/features/one-year-go-britain-changing-its-mind/0 -
Whataboutery in its purest form. Yes, racism and antisemitism exist on the political right and yes it is disgusting that they do. Google "Aidan Burley" to confirm this; in doing so, you will note that Mr Burley used to be a Tory MP. He is no longer a Tory MP. If he were Labour he'd be on the shadow front bench.TheJezziah said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41241353
_________________________________________
The study also revealed that anti-Semitic attitudes were higher than normal among people who classified their politics as "very right-wing".
Among this group they were two to four times higher than among the general population.
The researchers said the prevalence was considerably higher among right-wingers than on the left.
____________________________________________
No real surprise there to anyone who pays attention. Now please tell me again how it is all the Labour party and any suggestion the media have made an effort to paint Labour that way is a conspiracy theory...
Which also agrees with the other survey I've linked to a few times on here which showed more anti-semitic attitudes on the right than the left.
One thing you will get more with the left though is criticism of Israel.
I'll let you make your own conclusion there before I get accused of 'anti-semitic conspiracy theories'...0 -
Surprising but very welcome:
https://twitter.com/aljwhite/status/9793652856092098570 -
Two standard deviations eh.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 16, but if he were Muslim he'd look just the same!
Mr. Eagles, don't forget that sometimes you just end up with a wonky sample. Even proper psych surveys/questionnaires aim for a p value of 0.95 plus (meaning that up to 1:20 of the results will just be wrong due to statistical variance or getting an odd case).
I wonder what a non standard deviation looks like.0 -
They are still Farage’s people.Sandpit said:
Yes, but they used to be Farage’s mob and he’d be around to defend their just-about-not-racist tweets. All they’ve done with that comment is drawn attention away from Labour’s myriad just-about-not-antisemitic posts.williamglenn said:
This is the kind of thing they’ve been doing from the beginning.Sandpit said:
Who’s in charge of Leave.EU these days? Someone needs to tell them that this sort of intervention isn’t helpful. Let Labour dig their own hole.TheScreamingEagles said:@peston: So the way to combat anti-semitism is to smear British muslims in the most disgusting way, and accuse Labour of the most hideous calculating racism? This is appalling beyond words
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/979331640987176960?s=21
Probably taking their cue Farage.
Nigel Farage: 'Jewish lobby' has disproportionate power in the US
'Farage’s clumsy use of the terms Israel and Jewish lobby interchangeably and his reference to their ‘power’ has crossed the line into well-known antisemitic tropes,' says Board of Deputies
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/us-jewish-lobby-nigel-farage-power-anti-semitism-ukip-leader-a8031191.html?amp0 -
Wonderful news.TheScreamingEagles said:Yulia Skripal is “improving rapidly and is no longer in a critical condition.
Her condition is now stable”, Salisbury NHS Trust has said.
However, her father, the former double agent Sergei Skripal, remains in a critical but stable condition.
Dr Christine Blanshard, medical director for Salisbury district hospital, said: “I’m pleased to be able to report an improvement in the condition of Yulia Skripal.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/29/yulia-skripal-no-longer-in-critical-condition-says-salisbury-nhs?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I wonder what that "expert" a few weeks ago, saying a recovery from Novichok poisoning was impossible, was all about?0 -
Mr. Evershed, like Corbyn getting elected. Or Verstappen winning the 2016 Spanish Grand Prix.0
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If it means they are unable to buy crooked bananas or a pint of milk.williamglenn said:
Do you think UK consumers object to this?David_Evershed said:Philip_Thompson said:
The domestic market.williamglenn said:
Quite right.
Businesses in the Uk who have no export business to other EU countries still have to follow the EU regulations for products sold in the UK.
0 -
How about the fact that the Conservatives ran an official campaign which was expliclitly Islamophobic just two years ago? One for which there's not, to date, even been a mealy-mouthed Corbyn-style apology, let alone any sackings.Ishmael_Z said:
Whataboutery in its purest form. Yes, racism and antisemitism exist on the political right and yes it is disgusting that they do. Google "Aidan Burley" to confirm this; in doing so, you will note that Mr Burley used to be a Tory MP. He is no longer a Tory MP. If he were Labour he'd be on the shadow front bench.TheJezziah said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41241353
_________________________________________
The study also revealed that anti-Semitic attitudes were higher than normal among people who classified their politics as "very right-wing".
Among this group they were two to four times higher than among the general population.
The researchers said the prevalence was considerably higher among right-wingers than on the left.
____________________________________________
No real surprise there to anyone who pays attention. Now please tell me again how it is all the Labour party and any suggestion the media have made an effort to paint Labour that way is a conspiracy theory...
Which also agrees with the other survey I've linked to a few times on here which showed more anti-semitic attitudes on the right than the left.
One thing you will get more with the left though is criticism of Israel.
I'll let you make your own conclusion there before I get accused of 'anti-semitic conspiracy theories'...0 -
As someone alluded to earlier today, the far left and the far right end up with opinions much closer to each other than might be assumed. The horse shoe is a good analogy.TheScreamingEagles said:
They are still Farage’s people.Sandpit said:
Yes, but they used to be Farage’s mob and he’d be around to defend their just-about-not-racist tweets. All they’ve done with that comment is drawn attention away from Labour’s myriad just-about-not-antisemitic posts.williamglenn said:
This is the kind of thing they’ve been doing from the beginning.Sandpit said:
Who’s in charge of Leave.EU these days? Someone needs to tell them that this sort of intervention isn’t helpful. Let Labour dig their own hole.TheScreamingEagles said:@peston: So the way to combat anti-semitism is to smear British muslims in the most disgusting way, and accuse Labour of the most hideous calculating racism? This is appalling beyond words
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/979331640987176960?s=21
Probably taking their cue Farage.
Nigel Farage: 'Jewish lobby' has disproportionate power in the US
'Farage’s clumsy use of the terms Israel and Jewish lobby interchangeably and his reference to their ‘power’ has crossed the line into well-known antisemitic tropes,' says Board of Deputies
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/us-jewish-lobby-nigel-farage-power-anti-semitism-ukip-leader-a8031191.html?amp0 -
Proves it wasn't Novichok - and so not Russia. Quad erat demonstrandum.Danny565 said:
Wonderful news.TheScreamingEagles said:Yulia Skripal is “improving rapidly and is no longer in a critical condition.
Her condition is now stable”, Salisbury NHS Trust has said.
However, her father, the former double agent Sergei Skripal, remains in a critical but stable condition.
Dr Christine Blanshard, medical director for Salisbury district hospital, said: “I’m pleased to be able to report an improvement in the condition of Yulia Skripal.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/29/yulia-skripal-no-longer-in-critical-condition-says-salisbury-nhs?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I wonder what that "expert" a few weeks ago, saying a recovery from Novichok poisoning was impossible, was all about?0 -
That’s great news, hopefully she’ll be able to give the investigators a better understanding of what happened.TheScreamingEagles said:Yulia Skripal is “improving rapidly and is no longer in a critical condition.
Her condition is now stable”, Salisbury NHS Trust has said.
However, her father, the former double agent Sergei Skripal, remains in a critical but stable condition.
Dr Christine Blanshard, medical director for Salisbury district hospital, said: “I’m pleased to be able to report an improvement in the condition of Yulia Skripal.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/29/yulia-skripal-no-longer-in-critical-condition-says-salisbury-nhs?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I don’t understand the ‘front door’ explaination given yesterday, that’s not how a sophisticated assassin would poison someone.0 -
I think the difference was between a full recovery where there was no loss of function and a recovery that left nerve damage and other associated ill health.Danny565 said:
Wonderful news.TheScreamingEagles said:Yulia Skripal is “improving rapidly and is no longer in a critical condition.
Her condition is now stable”, Salisbury NHS Trust has said.
However, her father, the former double agent Sergei Skripal, remains in a critical but stable condition.
Dr Christine Blanshard, medical director for Salisbury district hospital, said: “I’m pleased to be able to report an improvement in the condition of Yulia Skripal.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/29/yulia-skripal-no-longer-in-critical-condition-says-salisbury-nhs?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I wonder what that "expert" a few weeks ago, saying a recovery from Novichok poisoning was impossible, was all about?0 -
I see in my absence Leave.EU have been making my point for me.0
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0
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Corbyn more a black swan event.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Evershed, like Corbyn getting elected. Or Verstappen winning the 2016 Spanish Grand Prix.
0 -
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Did you know that Vote Leave were campaigning on the issue of whale meat using dubious claims? This is an example of an ad that was hidden from their main Facebook feed but sent to a targeted audience using Aggregate IQ. Very pernicious and as we now know, facilitated by overspending.
https://www.facebook.com/voteleave/posts/5908190677616880 -
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And some of us Leave supporters have been making the point that we don’t wish to be associated with such comments.AlastairMeeks said:I see in my absence Leave.EU have been making my point for me.
0 -
Yet you were willing to swim in the same waters as them at the time it actually mattered.Sandpit said:
And some of us Leave supporters have been making the point that we don’t wish to be associated with such comments.AlastairMeeks said:I see in my absence Leave.EU have been making my point for me.
0 -
2014 local elections:
"The BBC's projected national vote share (PNV) put Labour on 31%, the Conservatives on 29%, UKIP on 17%, and the Liberal Democrats on 12%. Rallings and Thrasher of Plymouth University's national equivalent vote share (NEV) estimated 31% for Labour, 30% for the Conservatives, 18% for UKIP, and 11% for the Liberal Democrats."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_20140 -
That’s fantastic news.Tissue_Price said:Surprising but very welcome:
https://twitter.com/aljwhite/status/9793652856092098570 -
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Abbott throws some extra petrol on the fire, just in case some of the flames were dying down thanks to Jezza's letter:
https://twitter.com/JewishChron/status/9793696409578086460 -
-
I condemned Farage’s poster here on the day it was released.AlastairMeeks said:
Yet you were willing to swim in the same waters as them at the time it actually mattered.Sandpit said:
And some of us Leave supporters have been making the point that we don’t wish to be associated with such comments.AlastairMeeks said:I see in my absence Leave.EU have been making my point for me.
0 -
Leave.EU are an absolute embarrassment. That poster is disgusting.
The organisation should have been wound up after the referendum but, due to the colossal size of Aaron Banks and Farage’s ego, they decided they’d far rather stick around to shit the bed.0 -
What about back door assassination such as that of Edward II ?Sandpit said:
That’s great news, hopefully she’ll be able to give the investigators a better understanding of what happened.TheScreamingEagles said:Yulia Skripal is “improving rapidly and is no longer in a critical condition.
Her condition is now stable”, Salisbury NHS Trust has said.
However, her father, the former double agent Sergei Skripal, remains in a critical but stable condition.
Dr Christine Blanshard, medical director for Salisbury district hospital, said: “I’m pleased to be able to report an improvement in the condition of Yulia Skripal.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/29/yulia-skripal-no-longer-in-critical-condition-says-salisbury-nhs?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I don’t understand the ‘front door’ explaination given yesterday, that’s not how a sophisticated assassin would poison someone.0 -
What a surprise.Scott_P said:0 -
Mr Evershed,
"Proves it wasn't Novichok - and so not Russia."
I know you're joking, but recovery is possible unless there's been associated lack of oxygen to vital organs. There are antidotes to the enzyme blockade if given quickly.
Like a stroke, a full recovery is always possible, but sometimes it's only partial.0 -
Err, can Carole Cadwalladr not read?Scott_P said:0 -
Every single one of the Brexit good for/bad for questions has moved in the wrong direction since February, except the NHS which hasn't changed. Even the number of people thinking Brexit will mean less immigration has fallen to 50%.
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/onal3cjvfu/InternalResults_180327_BrexitQuestions_for_website.pdf0 -
But is it actually untrue?Casino_Royale said:Leave.EU are an absolute embarrassment. That poster is disgusting.
the transit of whale meat through EU ports is perfectly legal as long as the relevant paperwork is in order and the meat at no point actually enters the EU.
http://uk.whales.org/blog/2017/07/eu-must-shut-its-ports-to-whale-meat-00 -
https://evolvepolitics.com/ministerial-aide-gavin-williamson-russian-oligarch/ I guess there will be more light on Russian money and elections now.0
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0
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I think Casino was referring to the Muslims/Jews/turkeys poster.CarlottaVance said:
But is it actually untrue?Casino_Royale said:Leave.EU are an absolute embarrassment. That poster is disgusting.
the transit of whale meat through EU ports is perfectly legal as long as the relevant paperwork is in order and the meat at no point actually enters the EU.
http://uk.whales.org/blog/2017/07/eu-must-shut-its-ports-to-whale-meat-00 -
That URL is misleading.Yorkcity said:https://evolvepolitics.com/ministerial-aide-gavin-williamson-russian-oligarch/ I guess there will be more light on Russian money and elections now.
0 -
The Vote Leave claim is specifically that the EU prevents us from banning such shipments through our ports. It is wrong, as Rotterdam has just such a ban. Whale meat imports to the EU are illegal in any case.CarlottaVance said:
But is it actually untrue?Casino_Royale said:Leave.EU are an absolute embarrassment. That poster is disgusting.
the transit of whale meat through EU ports is perfectly legal as long as the relevant paperwork is in order and the meat at no point actually enters the EU.
http://uk.whales.org/blog/2017/07/eu-must-shut-its-ports-to-whale-meat-0
http://www.greenport.com/news101/europe/rotterdam-bans-shipping-of-whale-meat0 -
Nerve gas on the back door of Berkeley Castle ?!?David_Evershed said:
What about back door assassination such as that of Edward II ?Sandpit said:
That’s great news, hopefully she’ll be able to give the investigators a better understanding of what happened.TheScreamingEagles said:Yulia Skripal is “improving rapidly and is no longer in a critical condition.
Her condition is now stable”, Salisbury NHS Trust has said.
However, her father, the former double agent Sergei Skripal, remains in a critical but stable condition.
Dr Christine Blanshard, medical director for Salisbury district hospital, said: “I’m pleased to be able to report an improvement in the condition of Yulia Skripal.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/29/yulia-skripal-no-longer-in-critical-condition-says-salisbury-nhs?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I don’t understand the ‘front door’ explaination given yesterday, that’s not how a sophisticated assassin would poison someone.
.................................
It would appear the medical condition of three Salisbury victims is related to their respective use of the front door of the Skripal family home.
0 -
Mr Sandpit,
"we don’t wish to be associated with such comments."
I wouldn't worry about that. Mr Meeks won't believe you anyway, so why not take the chance to stir him up a bit more?0 -
I like Berwick on Tweed.Was it a Lib dem seat a long time before 2015 ?TheScreamingEagles said:
That URL is misleading.Yorkcity said:https://evolvepolitics.com/ministerial-aide-gavin-williamson-russian-oligarch/ I guess there will be more light on Russian money and elections now.
0 -
Your own link actually says the opposite, rather supporting Vote Leave's claim!williamglenn said:
The Vote Leave claim is specifically that the EU prevents us from banning such shipments through our ports. It is wrong, as Rotterdam has just such a ban. Whale meat imports to the EU are illegal in any case.CarlottaVance said:
But is it actually untrue?Casino_Royale said:Leave.EU are an absolute embarrassment. That poster is disgusting.
the transit of whale meat through EU ports is perfectly legal as long as the relevant paperwork is in order and the meat at no point actually enters the EU.
http://uk.whales.org/blog/2017/07/eu-must-shut-its-ports-to-whale-meat-0
http://www.greenport.com/news101/europe/rotterdam-bans-shipping-of-whale-meat
Legally speaking, there is no way of prohibiting the transit of whale meat.
0 -
I heard him and he referred to long-term recovery being very unlikely.Danny565 said:
Wonderful news.TheScreamingEagles said:Yulia Skripal is “improving rapidly and is no longer in a critical condition.
Her condition is now stable”, Salisbury NHS Trust has said.
However, her father, the former double agent Sergei Skripal, remains in a critical but stable condition.
Dr Christine Blanshard, medical director for Salisbury district hospital, said: “I’m pleased to be able to report an improvement in the condition of Yulia Skripal.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/29/yulia-skripal-no-longer-in-critical-condition-says-salisbury-nhs?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I wonder what that "expert" a few weeks ago, saying a recovery from Novichok poisoning was impossible, was all about?0 -
Yes!Richard_Nabavi said:
I think Casino was referring to the Muslims/Jews/turkeys poster.CarlottaVance said:
But is it actually untrue?Casino_Royale said:Leave.EU are an absolute embarrassment. That poster is disgusting.
the transit of whale meat through EU ports is perfectly legal as long as the relevant paperwork is in order and the meat at no point actually enters the EU.
http://uk.whales.org/blog/2017/07/eu-must-shut-its-ports-to-whale-meat-00 -
I don't think those laws are European though, but just the way international shipping works.Richard_Nabavi said:
Your own link actually says the opposite, rather supporting Vote Leave's claim!williamglenn said:
The Vote Leave claim is specifically that the EU prevents us from banning such shipments through our ports. It is wrong, as Rotterdam has just such a ban. Whale meat imports to the EU are illegal in any case.CarlottaVance said:
But is it actually untrue?Casino_Royale said:Leave.EU are an absolute embarrassment. That poster is disgusting.
the transit of whale meat through EU ports is perfectly legal as long as the relevant paperwork is in order and the meat at no point actually enters the EU.
http://uk.whales.org/blog/2017/07/eu-must-shut-its-ports-to-whale-meat-0
http://www.greenport.com/news101/europe/rotterdam-bans-shipping-of-whale-meat
Legally speaking, there is no way of prohibiting the transit of whale meat.0 -
Almost certainly, the manner of Edward II's demise was much less lurid (fortunately).David_Evershed said:
What about back door assassination such as that of Edward II ?Sandpit said:
That’s great news, hopefully she’ll be able to give the investigators a better understanding of what happened.TheScreamingEagles said:Yulia Skripal is “improving rapidly and is no longer in a critical condition.
Her condition is now stable”, Salisbury NHS Trust has said.
However, her father, the former double agent Sergei Skripal, remains in a critical but stable condition.
Dr Christine Blanshard, medical director for Salisbury district hospital, said: “I’m pleased to be able to report an improvement in the condition of Yulia Skripal.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/29/yulia-skripal-no-longer-in-critical-condition-says-salisbury-nhs?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I don’t understand the ‘front door’ explaination given yesterday, that’s not how a sophisticated assassin would poison someone.0 -
Agree with you Alastair. - just unacceptableAlastairMeeks said:I see in my absence Leave.EU have been making my point for me.
0 -
It must be terribly exhausting, and not terribly effective, to be you, Alastair, never taking a position that someone you dislike also takes.AlastairMeeks said:
Yet you were willing to swim in the same waters as them at the time it actually mattered.Sandpit said:
And some of us Leave supporters have been making the point that we don’t wish to be associated with such comments.AlastairMeeks said:I see in my absence Leave.EU have been making my point for me.
0 -
1970’s.It was Beveridges seat for about 18 months in the 40’s.Yorkcity said:
I like Berwick on Tweed.Was it a Lib dem seat a long time before 2015 ?TheScreamingEagles said:
That URL is misleading.Yorkcity said:https://evolvepolitics.com/ministerial-aide-gavin-williamson-russian-oligarch/ I guess there will be more light on Russian money and elections now.
0
