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So mealy mouthed equivocation then.ydoethur said:
https://www.facebook.com/GuyVerhofstadt/posts/10156139319250016:0Theuniondivvie said:Can you link to that 'clear and forceful' condemnation please?
A quick google produces mealy mouthed equivocation and assertions that Catalan politicians deceived & manipulated voters with their 'fixed' referendum while failing to try and find genuine dialogue and compromise with those lovely PP fellows.
There were also a number of tweets at the time.
How's Guy's bleat for de-escalation and a negotiated solution going?0 -
Remain could easily have been hammered.Tony said:
Having two campaigns was actually positive, it allowed farage to dog whistle while giving liberal leavers cover that he wasn't the official campaign. For me Jo Cox was a big turning point, without that 57/43 nailed on. The polls were all moving to leave until that event.Casino_Royale said:
Gove was the decisive figure. He brought Cummings, and brought out Johnson, and, together, allowed a liberal case to be made for Leave.Richard_Tyndall said:
No one would deny that Farage was instrumental in getting a Referendum. But long before we actually got to campaign or vote he had become a complete irrelevance and was far more likely to turn people against Brexit than draw them in. Everyone who was serious about Leave winning knew he was a liability and did everything they could to make sure he was marginalised.Sean_F said:
Farage was not peripheral. 20-25% of the voters agreed with him. If we had PR, he'd be a major player.
But, he could not have won the EU Referendum unless people who disagree with him on many things, agreed with him about the EU.
The most important decision in the whole campaign was the one that awarded official Status to Vote Leave rather than Leave.eu. If that decision had gone the other way Remain would have won. I am not sure how easily, but they would have won.
Of course the Remoaners want Farage to have been important, just like the TV stations did because he is such a divisive figure. It just shows how desperate they have become.
Without him the middle-class Leavers and moderates centrists who plumped for Leave wouldn't have been won over, and Leave would have been left with the usual suspects.
On the other hand, I still think Leave would have won by a bigger margin (perhaps 56/57% to 43/44%) had the two campaigns not been fighting each other until almost the final week, and if Vote Leave itself had been better organised.0 -
NEW THREAD
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Yes, and most Vote Leave campaigners were apoplectic about that. Including me.Scott_P said:
Indeed.Tony said:Having two campaigns was actually positive, it allowed farage to dog whistle while giving liberal leavers cover that he wasn't the official campaign.
He appeared in a live TV debate with the PM, yet some here still claim he was "only peripheral"
Downing Street loved it, of course.0 -
I'll ignore your first few words, but the bulk of your post is worth comment IMO.TOPPING said:Tyndall and Casino’s delusion aside what extraordinary news about the Manchester Fire Service failings during the Arena bombing.
This is a classic case where 'lessons should be learnt' needs to be true. Thank goodness the paramedics were not restricted to 500 metres.
Then again, I'm glad I'm not the one on the ground having to manage the response to such an event ...0 -
Yes and that model should be adopted here toorpjs said:
I believe GSTQ is the Royal Anthem in at least some of the Commonwealth realms, and is played at the arrival of the local Governor-General.HYUFD said:
Well if it is the UK anthem it certainly should not be the English anthem, though given Australia and New Zealand have the Queen as their monarch too it should not really be the UK anthem either.OldKingCole said:
GSTQ is the UK Anthem. It isn’t the Welsh, nor the Scots, and Australia and New Zealand have their own now too. Advance Australia Fair is pretty good, as is God defend New Zealand, although there’s too much about God.HYUFD said:
GSTQ should not be the English anthem, as you say it is absurd that the English anthem is GSTQ when England plays Australia, New Zealand, Scotland, Wales or NI at rugby, cricket or football as it is also their opponents anthem too.TheScreamingEagles said:
GSTQ should only be played in the presence of the Queen or a member of the royal family and the more stirring Jerusalem should be the England anthem as it is at the Commonwealth Games. We should also get someone to compose a UK anthem too for Team GB and NI at the Olympics.
Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau makes the hair on my neck rise!
As you say every country where the Queen is monarch has its own anthem and so should England. GSTQ should revert to being a royal anthem played in the presence of the monarch, rsther like 'Heil to the Chief' in the US when the President is present0
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