politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Now the US orders sanctions against Russia for interference WH

TheScreamingEagles said:

But the House Intelligence Committee said there was no interference

The majority on the committee said that.
And as we know, they had their heads up their own arses.

Nigelb said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

But the House Intelligence Committee said there was no interference

The majority on the committee said that.
And as we know, they had their heads up their own arses.

Did you see my Alzheimer’s post this am?

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Tyndall, aye, but that'd be circa 40%, I think the Germans figure was closer to 5%.

Edited extra bit: yet another telling age divide:
https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/974319328907681794

49% of 18 to 24s is a good rating for May considering over 70% voted Labour in 2017

AlastairMeeks said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Meeks, you're aware that people change their political opinions over time? Not only that, the political situation itself will change. The EU in 30 years will not be the EU of today.

A large divide now does not mean there will be a large divide forever. Perhaps most importantly, the poll has nothing to do with the EU.

I agree with your last sentence. Now, explain to me why a majority of 18-34 year olds would favour Jeremy Corbyn over Theresa May on this question.

The nature of hope over experience.

MikeSmithson said:

I think Chelsea should be nationalised

Chortle ....

JosiasJessop said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Now that was a surprise.

Just went to look at how many tanks Poland has (following in from a comment someone made on the previous page). Officially they have 1,065 MBTs (Leopard 2s PT-91s and T72Ms). The UK by comparison has 250.

I wonder what the serviceable numbers are for each country.

Oh and the European country with the most tanks - Greece. Although a lot of them are very old.

I read somewhere (it might have been on here years ago) that, like for fighter planes, raw tank numbers mean little for the initial months of a conflict. What matters more is the numbers of crew available and the hours of training they get per year, as tank crews and fighter pilots/navigators cannot be trained to be effective quickly.

I'll leave it to one of our military bods to either expand on this, or lambast me.

Very likely true - and Germany is failing on both counts at the moment.

If they were so minded, the Poles could possibly bring off a successful invasion if the Germans didn't get any outside help....

Richard_Tyndall said:

I have to say I am hearing lot more loud jet activity around Lincolnshire the last few days compared to normal. This afternoon it has been pretty much constant.

I've been walking the Great Ouse Way, and there was lots of activity on Friday and yesterday on the stretches around Ely, including two refuelling aircraft low over Tescos.

I can't imagine what it must have been like at the height of the Cold War.

Nigelb said:

JosiasJessop said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Now that was a surprise.

Just went to look at how many tanks Poland has (following in from a comment someone made on the previous page). Officially they have 1,065 MBTs (Leopard 2s PT-91s and T72Ms). The UK by comparison has 250.

I wonder what the serviceable numbers are for each country.

Oh and the European country with the most tanks - Greece. Although a lot of them are very old.

I read somewhere (it might have been on here years ago) that, like for fighter planes, raw tank numbers mean little for the initial months of a conflict. What matters more is the numbers of crew available and the hours of training they get per year, as tank crews and fighter pilots/navigators cannot be trained to be effective quickly.

I'll leave it to one of our military bods to either expand on this, or lambast me.

Very likely true - and Germany is failing on both counts at the moment.

If they were so minded, the Poles could possibly bring off a successful invasion if the Germans didn't get any outside help....

The German submarine fleet is in a dire state:;
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a14480191/germanys-entire-submarine-fleet-is-out-of-commission/

May looks very statesman-like in the photos from today’s visit to Salisbury...

Gallowgate said:

May looks very statesman-like in the photos from today’s visit to Salisbury...

https://twitter.com/odn/status/974297476722315265

Scrapheap_as_was said:

MikeSmithson said:

I think Chelsea should be nationalised

Relegated 3 divisions is my impartial suggestion.

Timid.

Move them to the worst football league in the country, the Scottish Premier League.

Gallowgate said:

May looks very statesman-like in the photos from today’s visit to Salisbury...

'Events, dear boy, events' can work two ways.

JosiasJessop said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

I have to say I am hearing lot more loud jet activity around Lincolnshire the last few days compared to normal. This afternoon it has been pretty much constant.

I've been walking the Great Ouse Way, and there was lots of activity on Friday and yesterday on the stretches around Ely, including two refuelling aircraft low over Tescos.

I can't imagine what it must have been like at the height of the Cold War.

I have lived around the Nottinghamshire/Lincolnshire border all my life and grew very used to all the aircraft activity. The Tornados used to use the chimneys of Staythorpe Power station at Newark as a waypoint and we also used to get a lot of A10 activity.

And even in Newark you could hear the afterburners of the jets taking off from the bases along the Lincolnshire edge.

Scott_P said:

Gallowgate said:

May looks very statesman-like in the photos from today’s visit to Salisbury...

https://twitter.com/odn/status/974297476722315265

How far we have come... not so long ago, it was a 'terrorist fist jab':
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/2115960/Barack-Obama-hand-gesture-sparks-row-over-terrorist-fist-jab.html

https://twitter.com/rossfootball/status/974303580365774849

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/rossfootball/status/974303580365774849

"We have always been at war with Eastasia"

Nigelb said:

Scott_P said:

Gallowgate said:

May looks very statesman-like in the photos from today’s visit to Salisbury...

https://twitter.com/odn/status/974297476722315265

How far we have come... not so long ago, it was a 'terrorist fist jab':
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/2115960/Barack-Obama-hand-gesture-sparks-row-over-terrorist-fist-jab.html

Terrorist fist jab? lol.

Charles said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Charles said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

MarqueeMark said:

Sandpit said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?

Me neither. TSE finally falling for her charms?

The poll I took part in I disapproved of Mrs May's handling of the event.

She hasn’t gone far enough in her actions.

She should be taking financial action against Putin’s cronies.

Why is it I can’t deposit 5k cash in the bank without being interrogated by the bank staff about where it came from but Ruskies can deposit billions in the UK no questions asked.

They can’t

See that story in yesterday’s Times about Roman Abramovich.

He managed it.

Due diligence by the bank would have asked the right questions.

You made your money by buying a state asset at well below market estimates in a process you admit was rigged.

I’ve turned down work from Roman before because I wasn’t comfortable with (a) the source of his wealth and (b) the identity of the unnamed minority shareholder in Millhouse Capital who our spies* informed us had the initials VP. UBS and Citi were happy to take the work and the fee. Shame on them.

* literally

You truly are the only Nun in the whorehouse.

Richard_Tyndall said:

Morris_Dancer said:

How long do things like tanks remain effective? I know guns can remain (both individually and the design) of use for a very long time.

Chainmail (or mail, to be historically accurate) was in use for thousands of years. Although I suspect spears and bows probably hold the record for military longevity.

Age is not necessarily a problem of course. Just look at the B52.

Not sure that applies to tanks. The battle of 73 Easting in the first Gulf war involved the British and American forces destroying 160 Iraqi tanks and 180 troop carriers for the loss of 1 damaged vehicle on the part of the Americans and 1 person killed. It was a turkey shoot and most of the Iraqis did the only sensible thing which was get out of their vehicles and skedaddle.

Older tanks with older armour are a slightly complicated way of committing suicide against more modern equipment.

NorthofStoke said:

That 31% polling figure is both reassuring and disturbing. Reassuring because there is a big majority against Corbyn and 31% is smaller than current Labour support. It is disturbing that so many don't see him for what he is or are prepared to live with it due to their hatred of the Tories, tribalism or niave idealism. I'm desperate for the more sensible elements in Labour to assertthemselves. I have actually considered rejoining to oppose Corbyn and McDonell but I can't campaign or vote for them whilst the current leadership is in place. I might have to actually vote Tory as things stand. The Labour leadership and shadow cabinet are beyond the democratic pale. Whay can't more see that?

Because many of the 31% regard the Conservative government's policies as evil, unhinged or both.

It is of course possible to regard both main parties as utterly unfit for government (I'm in that group) but in practice many will pick a side based on their view of the other side.

AlastairMeeks said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Meeks, you're aware that people change their political opinions over time? Not only that, the political situation itself will change. The EU in 30 years will not be the EU of today.

A large divide now does not mean there will be a large divide forever. Perhaps most importantly, the poll has nothing to do with the EU.

I agree with your last sentence. Now, explain to me why a majority of 18-34 year olds would favour Jeremy Corbyn over Theresa May on this question.

2% much like Brexit which you do not accept

Richard_Tyndall said:

I have to say I am hearing lot more loud jet activity around Lincolnshire the last few days compared to normal. This afternoon it has been pretty much constant.

Keeping the Ruskies at bay no doubt.

How we laughed...
https://twitter.com/Daily_Express/status/729589817173020672

TheScreamingEagles said:

Charles said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Charles said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

MarqueeMark said:

Sandpit said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Theresa getting flowers given her and applause from the crowds in Salisbury

Well I’m not there and you’re not there, so who are all these other people that support the PM?

Me neither. TSE finally falling for her charms?

The poll I took part in I disapproved of Mrs May's handling of the event.

She hasn’t gone far enough in her actions.

She should be taking financial action against Putin’s cronies.

Why is it I can’t deposit 5k cash in the bank without being interrogated by the bank staff about where it came from but Ruskies can deposit billions in the UK no questions asked.

They can’t

See that story in yesterday’s Times about Roman Abramovich.

He managed it.

Due diligence by the bank would have asked the right questions.

You made your money by buying a state asset at well below market estimates in a process you admit was rigged.

I’ve turned down work from Roman before because I wasn’t comfortable with (a) the source of his wealth and (b) the identity of the unnamed minority shareholder in Millhouse Capital who our spies* informed us had the initials VP. UBS and Citi were happy to take the work and the fee. Shame on them.

* literally

You truly are the only Nun in the whorehouse.

Just worked at the time for a prudent and sensible firm. Stan O’Neal should rot in hell for what he did to Mother Merrill.

MaxPB said:

rottenborough said:

A round-up of the hard left's 'media' conspiracy theories re nerve agent:

https://www.theredroar.com/2018/03/spreading-conspiracy-theories-blaming-israel-for-the-salisbury-attack-the-alt-left-media-are-doing-vladimir-putins-work-for-him/

I don't understand where Israel even fits into this picture?!?

They're ever the bogeyman to a subset of society. A subset which overlaps significantly with neonazis and corbynites.

DavidL said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Morris_Dancer said:

How long do things like tanks remain effective? I know guns can remain (both individually and the design) of use for a very long time.

Chainmail (or mail, to be historically accurate) was in use for thousands of years. Although I suspect spears and bows probably hold the record for military longevity.

Age is not necessarily a problem of course. Just look at the B52.

Not sure that applies to tanks. The battle of 73 Easting in the first Gulf war involved the British and American forces destroying 160 Iraqi tanks and 180 troop carriers for the loss of 1 damaged vehicle on the part of the Americans and 1 person killed. It was a turkey shoot and most of the Iraqis did the only sensible thing which was get out of their vehicles and skedaddle.

Older tanks with older armour are a slightly complicated way of committing suicide against more modern equipment.

The advantages the Anglo-American tanks had then was

1) They had better armour

2) They had longer firing distances

3) They had GPS which is great for desert warfare

4) They had a lot of air support, from both planes and attack helicopters.

Looking at that list provided by @TheWhiteRabbit of American forces in Germany/Europe there's an awful lot of Combat Aviation Battalions.

williamglenn said:

How we laughed...

Nice find.

AlastairMeeks said:

NorthofStoke said:

That 31% polling figure is both reassuring and disturbing. Reassuring because there is a big majority against Corbyn and 31% is smaller than current Labour support. It is disturbing that so many don't see him for what he is or are prepared to live with it due to their hatred of the Tories, tribalism or niave idealism. I'm desperate for the more sensible elements in Labour to assertthemselves. I have actually considered rejoining to oppose Corbyn and McDonell but I can't campaign or vote for them whilst the current leadership is in place. I might have to actually vote Tory as things stand. The Labour leadership and shadow cabinet are beyond the democratic pale. Whay can't more see that?

Because many of the 31% regard the Conservative government's policies as evil, unhinged or both.

It is of course possible to regard both main parties as utterly unfit for government (I'm in that group) but in practice many will pick a side based on their view of the other side.

But alas we may have to choose between them again and they are not equally bad. As a currently disenfranchised centre-left person with a dash of classical liberalism and a bit of dryness in economics Corbyn is by far the worst.

Mr. Glenn, Litvinenko. The US election. The downing of a passenger plane over Ukraine. The common factor is Russia being a dick. Not leaving the EU.

Some hardcore Remainers sound like Elizabethan doctors, who know the cure is leeches before they even hear the first symptom.

If there was to be a war, expect many of our systems here in the UK to be hit hard at the commencement. We're very vulnerable.

It's cheap and effective at disrupting the war effort.

Anorak said:

MaxPB said:

rottenborough said:

A round-up of the hard left's 'media' conspiracy theories re nerve agent:

https://www.theredroar.com/2018/03/spreading-conspiracy-theories-blaming-israel-for-the-salisbury-attack-the-alt-left-media-are-doing-vladimir-putins-work-for-him/

I don't understand where Israel even fits into this picture?!?

They're ever the bogeyman to a subset of society. A subset which overlaps significantly with neonazis and corbynites.

My inner grammar Nazi is suddenly singing the Horst Wessel song.

If there's one thing I hate more than 'would of,' it's a tautology.

ydoethur said:

Anorak said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Anorak said:

I'm a bit suspicious about Trump imposing sanctions on the same day as a disastrous election result. Maybe I've just read too many corbynite tweets and the tinfoil is rubbing off...

You pervert.

You don’t use tinfoil to rub yourself off, you use PVC, much easier to clean.

So I am told.

It's gone silver.

Come again?

Jeez, give me a minute. Not 18 any more.

I wonder if someone like Yvette Cooper has considered a Labour leadership challenge to Corbyn - to be made right now.

It would obviously be very unlikely to succeed - but who knows - it's worth remembering Corbyn only beat Owen Smith by 62:38 - and Smith was a very poor candidate compared to someone like Cooper.

OK, that contest was before Corbyn's "success" in the 2017 GE - but still Smith getting 38% isn't a bad base - and now would surely be the best possible time to strike with this incident giving the maximum opportunity to undermine Corbyn.

Of course she would start behind but she could challenge him to TV debates etc - and we've seen many electoral upsets in recent years - if she could build some momentum then you never know what might happen.

Stark_Dawning said:

williamglenn said:

How we laughed...
https://twitter.com/Daily_Express/status/729589817173020672

Although he never actually said it, Dave would today have been utterly vindicated if he'd warned that Brexit might start World War III. Looking back Dave was too sanguine about the security threat.

Er.... When Russia killed Litvinenko the response from the rest of the world and particularly from the EU was terribly weak and divided. And we were happily paid up members of the EU.

Actually this time the EU and World response seems much tougher and far more credible. As we're leaving the EU?

NorthofStoke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

NorthofStoke said:

That 31% polling figure is both reassuring and disturbing. Reassuring because there is a big majority against Corbyn and 31% is smaller than current Labour support. It is disturbing that so many don't see him for what he is or are prepared to live with it due to their hatred of the Tories, tribalism or niave idealism. I'm desperate for the more sensible elements in Labour to assertthemselves. I have actually considered rejoining to oppose Corbyn and McDonell but I can't campaign or vote for them whilst the current leadership is in place. I might have to actually vote Tory as things stand. The Labour leadership and shadow cabinet are beyond the democratic pale. Whay can't more see that?

Because many of the 31% regard the Conservative government's policies as evil, unhinged or both.

It is of course possible to regard both main parties as utterly unfit for government (I'm in that group) but in practice many will pick a side based on their view of the other side.

But alas we may have to choose between them again and they are not equally bad. As a currently disenfranchised centre-left person with a dash of classical liberalism and a bit of dryness in economics Corbyn is by far the worst.

I'd say they're equally bad at present. If Labour replace Jeremy Corbyn with someone who can be trusted on national security they'll get my vote. I cannot envisage voting Conservative at any point in the foreseeable future no matter how they evolve from here.

It's Corbyn's approach to foreign policy over a period of 40 years that make him entirely unsuitable to be Prime Minister. Nothing he and Seamas Milne have said and done since the Salisbury attack should surprise anyone. Both have been speaking from the heart.

Most voters get this, which is why Corbyn will never lead Labour to victory in a general election. That is good news; but also utterly depressing, because it leaves this miserable, incompetent government in power for the foreseeable future.

Scott_P said:

Gallowgate said:

May looks very statesman-like in the photos from today’s visit to Salisbury...

https://twitter.com/odn/status/974297476722315265

Or as the Mirror will run "May punches member of the public".......

volcanopete said:

Gavin Williamson has made a right prat of himself today.Instead of acting like some pubescent Private Pike,if he really want to look hard and scary to these pesky Russians ,he should have said shut the f.ck up,in the manner of Tony Soprano.That would have Putin quacking/quakeing in his boots.

Williamson, Johnson, Grayling, Fox, Davis, Leadsom, McVey ... the quotient of utter mediocrities and worse in the current Cabinet is unprecedented.

Phew, we're much much much better than HSBC

https://twitter.com/guardian/status/974338502660886533

AlastairMeeks said:

NorthofStoke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

NorthofStoke said:

That 31% polling figure is both reassuring and disturbing. Reassuring because there is a big majority against Corbyn and 31% is smaller than current Labour support. It is disturbing that so many don't see him for what he is or are prepared to live with it due to their hatred of the Tories, tribalism or niave idealism. I'm desperate for the more sensible elements in Labour to assertthemselves. I have actually considered rejoining to oppose Corbyn and McDonell but I can't campaign or vote for them whilst the current leadership is in place. I might have to actually vote Tory as things stand. The Labour leadership and shadow cabinet are beyond the democratic pale. Whay can't more see that?

Because many of the 31% regard the Conservative government's policies as evil, unhinged or both.

It is of course possible to regard both main parties as utterly unfit for government (I'm in that group) but in practice many will pick a side based on their view of the other side.

But alas we may have to choose between them again and they are not equally bad. As a currently disenfranchised centre-left person with a dash of classical liberalism and a bit of dryness in economics Corbyn is by far the worst.

I'd say they're equally bad at present. If Labour replace Jeremy Corbyn with someone who can be trusted on national security they'll get my vote. I cannot envisage voting Conservative at any point in the foreseeable future no matter how they evolve from here.

Would any Labour figure who can be trusted on national security be able to win the leadership as matters stand? I think the answer is 'no.' Clive Lewis may be able to rehabilitate himself given time but I have always got the feeling that he was a touch lightweight for the top post, Labour's slightly saner answer to Boris.

The truth is we have a bad government, but they are considerably less bad than the Opposition. Rees-Mogg and Gove are hard right neocons whom I dislike and distrust. Some of Corbyn's supporters are genuine 'cheered Indiana Jones' foes' Nazis, while others consider Brezhnev was dangerously wet.

And there as Joff so rightly pointed out, lies the problem.

SouthamObserver said:

volcanopete said:

Gavin Williamson has made a right prat of himself today.Instead of acting like some pubescent Private Pike,if he really want to look hard and scary to these pesky Russians ,he should have said shut the f.ck up,in the manner of Tony Soprano.That would have Putin quacking/quakeing in his boots.

Williamson, Johnson, Grayling, Fox, Davis, Leadsom, McVey ... the quotient of utter mediocrities and worse in the current Cabinet is unprecedented.

On seeing the list of Addington's cabinet in 1801, a peer is said to have remarked, 'Well, thank God we have at last got a ministry without one of those men of genius in it.'

(And if you want a bunch of mediocrities, try the 1904-5 Balfour cabinet.)

SouthamObserver said:

volcanopete said:

Gavin Williamson has made a right prat of himself today.Instead of acting like some pubescent Private Pike,if he really want to look hard and scary to these pesky Russians ,he should have said shut the f.ck up,in the manner of Tony Soprano.That would have Putin quacking/quakeing in his boots.

Williamson, Johnson, Grayling, Fox, Davis, Leadsom, McVey ... the quotient of utter mediocrities and worse in the current Cabinet is unprecedented.

Veritable titans compared to most of the opposition cabinet.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Phew, we're much much much better than HSBC

https://twitter.com/guardian/status/974338502660886533

They’re not comparing like with like though, or they’re surprised that cashiers working 9-3 in a branch are mostly women whereas the 18-hour-a-day City boys are mostly, well, boys.

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Phew, we're much much much better than HSBC

https://twitter.com/guardian/status/974338502660886533

They’re not comparing like with like though, or they’re surprised that cashiers working 9-3 in a branch are mostly women whereas the 18-hour-a-day City boys are mostly, well, boys.

I'm looking forward to see the pay gap at Premier League clubs. Fun fact, Arsenal employ over 700 people.

tlg86 said:

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Phew, we're much much much better than HSBC

https://twitter.com/guardian/status/974338502660886533

They’re not comparing like with like though, or they’re surprised that cashiers working 9-3 in a branch are mostly women whereas the 18-hour-a-day City boys are mostly, well, boys.

I'm looking forward to see the pay gap at Premier League clubs. Fun fact, Arsenal employ over 700 people.

From personal experience if I were advising Arsenal I'd tell them to use the modal average.

Re that Sky poll, I think both Alastair and the Tories on here are overreading it. What matters is whether any of those respondents - young and old - are actually going to take the Russia issue into consideration when they vote. Lots of voters have opinions on matters, where those matters rank in terms who deciding who to vote for GE is a different matter.

I think 51% 18-34 year olds picked Corbyn in part because of the aftermath of Iraq tbh, rather than ‘hope over experience.’ I would agree with the 49% who picked May, however I’d never describe myself as right wing, so I don’t see felix’s point that the poll shows a ‘shift to the right.’

Pulpstar said:

tlg86 said:

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Phew, we're much much much better than HSBC

https://twitter.com/guardian/status/974338502660886533

They’re not comparing like with like though, or they’re surprised that cashiers working 9-3 in a branch are mostly women whereas the 18-hour-a-day City boys are mostly, well, boys.

I'm looking forward to see the pay gap at Premier League clubs. Fun fact, Arsenal employ over 700 people.

Will Arsenal have to publish given they're privately owned ?

Applies to all firms/organisations with 250 plus employees.