politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ladbrokes now make it evens that TMay survive the year
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As might the Deliveroo person. You had best put the kettle on for him before ordering.SandyRentool said:If a Deliveroo person is prepared to cycle down from Teesside to bring me a Parmo, then I might be interested. However, it might need reheating by then.
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Mr Hancock also revealed the Government would repeal laws that could force newspapers to pay all costs for libel cases whether they won or lost.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5449399/Culture-Secretary-cancels-second-Leveson-Inquiry.html
Obviously when Jezza comes in and closes all the free press he doesn't like this will be immaterial, but this particular rule was bonkers. If the press prints lies they should pay, but if they don't, they shouldn't be liable for the other sides costs.0 -
I wouldn't be surprised that both parties are paying Deliveroo. Providing the delivery was their USP, but Just Eat and Uber so so as well now. Thinking about it, I haven't seen a Just Eat delivery rider recently.MarkHopkins said:FF43 said:
In principle you get a better meal from Deliveroo than Just Eat because they deal with fine dining (in relative terms) restaurants who see takeaway as another sales channel and don't want to do the delivery themselves. I believe Deliveroo charge those restaurants a 30% commission.FrancisUrquhart said:Deliveroo is one business I don't get. It seems a very expensive way to get a takeaway from a crap chain restaurant, but then I wasn't effected by the KFC closures nor care if Nando runs out of chicken / Jamie Italian chain goes bust (other than obviously people losing work).
Having looked at the price differences on Deliveroo compared to the actual restaurant menu, I think it is the customers who pay the 30%.0 -
Mrs May could still have held off triggering A50 and got the policy brief sorted out in a more realistic fashion. To start the process with a fantasy that David Davis would hop over to Berlin and it would be sorted out in a week or two was not exactly brilliant politics.MarkHopkins said:Cyclefree said:
A press on the PAUSE button would be ideal. Some very hard thinking to get a coherent plan is urgently needed.Beverley_C said:
Nil. They need to dump the swivel-eyed Brexit loons first. After that they can ask the EU to stop the process whilst they take a realistic look at things and come up with a coherent plan for either IN or OUT.Recidivist said:Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?
Of course they should have done this before pressing the Article 50 button. God only knows why they didn't. The timing of Article 50 was about the only leverage the UK had.
The EU conveniently took away the A50 leverage by refusing to have any talks until A50 was enacted.
Then the EU insisted on 3 issues first (including the Ireland one) before discussing trade.
So that's why we're here and there appears to not be a plan, because the EU response to any UK plan is simply "do what you're told". And that attitude is why we voted for Brexit in the first place.0 -
I think if he went this week, it would be seen as a resignation in disgrace after a problem filled week - the stuff about the Camden - Islington border, the letter to TMay speculating about a hard border, and criticism of the garden bridge fiasco.TheScreamingEagles said:I wonder if this is the week Boris finally flounces.
I suspect his message would be drowned out if he goes this week - he's smart enough to choose a better time surely?0 -
Just had a flutter on George Osborne to be next London Mayor at 40/1.
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Somewhat, and he isn’t the only one.tlg86 said:
I reckon Ron Dennis is chuckling at Mosely's demise.JosiasJessop said:
Sure. His reaction to the Imola tragedies in 1994 have undoubtedly save more lives in F1, as did he and Bernie getting Prof Watkins is as F1 medical officer. (Though I also slightly blame Moseley for the Imola deaths, given the sudden rule changes probably contributed to the crashes).MikeSmithson said:Is somebody going to speak up for Max Mosely?
But over the current story? Nah.
Murdoch is going to do everything in his considerable power to get Mosley in front of a judge on a perjury charge.0 -
"The more we realise how good the EU is at negotiations, the less we want the EU to negotiate on our behalf."MarkHopkins said:
The EU conveniently took away the A50 leverage by refusing to have any talks until A50 was enacted.Cyclefree said:
A press on the PAUSE button would be ideal. Some very hard thinking to get a coherent plan is urgently needed.Beverley_C said:
Nil. They need to dump the swivel-eyed Brexit loons first. After that they can ask the EU to stop the process whilst they take a realistic look at things and come up with a coherent plan for either IN or OUT.Recidivist said:Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?
Of course they should have done this before pressing the Article 50 button. God only knows why they didn't. The timing of Article 50 was about the only leverage the UK had.
Then the EU insisted on 3 issues first (including the Ireland one) before discussing trade.
So that's why we're here and there appears to not be a plan, because the EU response to any UK plan is simply "do what you're told". And that attitude is why we voted for Brexit in the first place.0 -
Well quite. I suppose since Belgium (and therefore Brussels) still legally sets it's time relative to GMT (rather than UTC), I suppose the government could keep adding leap seconds to GMT until a strategy develops. They said we leave the EU in 2019, but no one technically agreed when 2019 actually starts.Cyclefree said:
A press on the PAUSE button would be ideal. Some very hard thinking to get a coherent plan is urgently needed.Beverley_C said:
Nil. They need to dump the swivel-eyed Brexit loons first. After that they can ask the EU to stop the process whilst they take a realistic look at things and come up with a coherent plan for either IN or OUT.Recidivist said:Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?
Of course they should have done this before pressing the Article 50 button. God only knows why they didn't. The timing of Article 50 was about the only leverage the UK had.
This is clearly mad, but still an improvement on what the government is actually doing.
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Probably nil?Recidivist said:Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?
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What price, GO v Sadiq?TGOHF said:Just had a flutter on George Osborne to be next London Mayor at 40/1.
3/1?0 -
Re the first point, I can see your point. But regardless the government should have done all the detailed work on all the issues arising to come up with a plan of its own - for a transition, for all the different sectors, for an FTA, for or not EFTA/EEA, for Ireland, for the talks etc etc.MarkHopkins said:Cyclefree said:
A press on the PAUSE button would be ideal. Some very hard thinking to get a coherent plan is urgently needed.Beverley_C said:
Nil. They need to dump the swivel-eyed Brexit loons first. After that they can ask the EU to stop the process whilst they take a realistic look at things and come up with a coherent plan for either IN or OUT.Recidivist said:Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?
Of course they should have done this before pressing the Article 50 button. God only knows why they didn't. The timing of Article 50 was about the only leverage the UK had.
The EU conveniently took away the A50 leverage by refusing to have any talks until A50 was enacted.
Then the EU insisted on 3 issues first (including the Ireland one) before discussing trade.
So that's why we're here and there appears to not be a plan, because the EU response to any UK plan is simply "do what you're told". And that attitude is why we voted for Brexit in the first place.
And then it should have taken the initiative by setting out what it wanted, what it would offer and how - in detail - it would get to wherever it wanted to be. Of course the EU might still have reacted in the way you describe but there might also have been a chance of them seeing that there was a serious grown up thoughtful interlocutor on the other side of the table. Not arrogant, incompetent amateurs like Johnson, Davis and Fox who, whatever your view on Brexit, shame this country.
And it could also have had the conversation with the country it needed to, to explain the destination, the trade offs, the complexities etc and it could have got some of those on the losing side on board or at least not so hostile. And it should have leveraged the skills and advice of people from across the political spectrum including those opposed to Brexit, because frankly it needed all the help it could got.
It did none of those things and now the government and the country are boxed into a corner.
Even if Brexit was not your choice there was a much more intelligent and thoughtful way of going about it than what we have seen.0 -
Much of it created or originally developed by the BBC. :-)Floater said:
Netflix and Amazon are providing some great content.FrancisUrquhart said:Sky brings Netflix on board
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43242057
This is the sort of thing why I argue the licence fee is totally broken. The BBC while wed to the telly tax can't compete with the shifts happening in the modern world of content creation.
Murdoch has seen the tectonic plates shifting, and the Sky under new ownership are in an even better position to adapt with the times.0 -
Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).
https://twitter.com/SirBasilBrush/status/9692274489016238080 -
Beverley_C said:
As I recall, the only justification for the A50 timing was the Euro elections in March 2019. When combined with the 2 year A50 deadline it meant that if triggered in March 2017 then we could avoid having MEPs who would only serve a part term.Cyclefree said:
A press on the PAUSE button would be ideal. Some very hard thinking to get a coherent plan is urgently needed.Beverley_C said:
Nil. They need to dump the swivel-eyed Brexit loons first. After that they can ask the EU to stop the process whilst they take a realistic look at things and come up with a coherent plan for either IN or OUT.Recidivist said:Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?
Of course they should have done this before pressing the Article 50 button. God only knows why they didn't. The timing of Article 50 was about the only leverage the UK had.
Not a brilliant justification, but ...
A bloody silly justification IMO. So what if there were some UK MEPs. It might have annoyed the EU but big deal. Far more important was working out what we wanted which, some 21 months after the referendum, we still have not done.......0 -
Isn't that HMGs position?Anorak said:Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).
https://twitter.com/SirBasilBrush/status/969227448901623808
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In any rational world, it's not the Government who should have done this before March 2017 - it was the Leave campaign who should have done it before June 2016. The Irish border was given no serious analysis during the referendum campaign (other than Remainer X: I think we have a problem here, Leaver Y: Nah, it'll be fine)Cyclefree said:
A press on the PAUSE button would be ideal. Some very hard thinking to get a coherent plan is urgently needed.Beverley_C said:
Nil. They need to dump the swivel-eyed Brexit loons first. After that they can ask the EU to stop the process whilst they take a realistic look at things and come up with a coherent plan for either IN or OUT.Recidivist said:Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?
Of course they should have done this before pressing the Article 50 button. God only knows why they didn't. The timing of Article 50 was about the only leverage the UK had.
But as I and many others are having to come to terms with, we lost because we played a rational game when the battleground was elsewhere.0 -
Desperate stuff.Anorak said:Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).
That report was publicised at the time, and does not describe a frictionless border so it is not a viable solution.0 -
You didn't play a rational game. You just lied about different things.tpfkar said:
In any rational world, it's not the Government who should have done this before March 2017 - it was the Leave campaign who should have done it before June 2016. The Irish border was given no serious analysis during the referendum campaign (other than Remainer X: I think we have a problem here, Leaver Y: Nah, it'll be fine)Cyclefree said:
A press on the PAUSE button would be ideal. Some very hard thinking to get a coherent plan is urgently needed.Beverley_C said:
Nil. They need to dump the swivel-eyed Brexit loons first. After that they can ask the EU to stop the process whilst they take a realistic look at things and come up with a coherent plan for either IN or OUT.Recidivist said:Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?
Of course they should have done this before pressing the Article 50 button. God only knows why they didn't. The timing of Article 50 was about the only leverage the UK had.
But as I and many others are having to come to terms with, we lost because we played a rational game when the battleground was elsewhere.0 -
They defenestrated IDS to keep the Tory brand going.Recidivist said:Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?
Not delivering Brexit would kill the Tory brand stone dead. So no chance.0 -
Do you remember "No Deal is better than a bad deal"? The idea was that we threaten to walk away and the Germans, Italians etc would run after us because they would be desperate to sell us their cars and prosecco. Brexiteers egged May on and organised drinks parties to celebrate the event.Cyclefree said:
A press on the PAUSE button would be ideal. Some very hard thinking to get a coherent plan is urgently needed.Beverley_C said:
Nil. They need to dump the swivel-eyed Brexit loons first. After that they can ask the EU to stop the process whilst they take a realistic look at things and come up with a coherent plan for either IN or OUT.Recidivist said:Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?
Of course they should have done this before pressing the Article 50 button. God only knows why they didn't. The timing of Article 50 was about the only leverage the UK had.
I pointed out on this forum that refusing to budge was a better BATNA (best alternative to negotiated agreement) but was told, just as well I wasn't doing the negotiations. (they may be right about that).0 -
I am not going to argue your point. I am, after all, an arch-RemoanerCyclefree said:Beverley_C said:
As I recall, the only justification for the A50 timing was the Euro elections in March 2019. When combined with the 2 year A50 deadline it meant that if triggered in March 2017 then we could avoid having MEPs who would only serve a part term.Cyclefree said:
A press on the PAUSE button would be ideal. Some very hard thinking to get a coherent plan is urgently needed.Beverley_C said:
Nil. They need to dump the swivel-eyed Brexit loons first. After that they can ask the EU to stop the process whilst they take a realistic look at things and come up with a coherent plan for either IN or OUT.Recidivist said:Remember that time when we woke up to find that the Conservatives had quietly dumped Ian Duncan Smith? What are the chances they will do the same with Brexit?
Of course they should have done this before pressing the Article 50 button. God only knows why they didn't. The timing of Article 50 was about the only leverage the UK had.
Not a brilliant justification, but ...
A bloody silly justification IMO. So what if there were some UK MEPs. It might have annoyed the EU but big deal. Far more important was working out what we wanted which, some 21 months after the referendum, we still have not done.......
It would be nice to have a national rational policy instead of watching the loons rub themselves against the furniture as they get excited by the thought of post-Brexit aka 1957 mk2.
The only consolation left to me is watching JRM et al's increasing desperation as it all falls apart as reality refuses to negotiate with fantasy.0 -
I think mostly frictionless will be satisfactory.williamglenn said:
Desperate stuff.Anorak said:Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).
That report was publicised at the time, and does not describe a frictionless border so it is not a viable solution.0 -
You're not the one who needs to be satisfied by it.RobD said:
I think mostly frictionless will be satisfactory.williamglenn said:
Desperate stuff.Anorak said:Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).
That report was publicised at the time, and does not describe a frictionless border so it is not a viable solution.0 -
Cyclefree said:
... there might also have been a chance of them seeing that there was a serious grown up thoughtful interlocutor on the other side of the table. Not arrogant, incompetent amateurs like Johnson, Davis and Fox who, whatever your view on Brexit, shame this country.
Cyclefree said:Even if Brexit was not your choice there was a much more intelligent and thoughtful way of going about it than what we have seen.
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As a die-hard remainer I'm not desperate to show one-thing or another in this case. But it seemed a lot better than the apocalyptic situation some people would have one believe.williamglenn said:
Desperate stuff.Anorak said:Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).
That report was publicised at the time, and does not describe a frictionless border so it is not a viable solution.0 -
Deliveroo strikes me as emblematic of what is wrong with Britain. Youngsters on the gig economy riding in dark and snow to deliver junk food to couch potatoes who would be better off walking to the grocery store then to the kitchen.FF43 said:
I wouldn't be surprised that both parties are paying Deliveroo. Providing the delivery was their USP, but Just Eat and Uber so so as well now. Thinking about it, I haven't seen a Just Eat delivery rider recently.MarkHopkins said:FF43 said:
In principle you get a better meal from Deliveroo than Just Eat because they deal with fine dining (in relative terms) restaurants who see takeaway as another sales channel and don't want to do the delivery themselves. I believe Deliveroo charge those restaurants a 30% commission.FrancisUrquhart said:Deliveroo is one business I don't get. It seems a very expensive way to get a takeaway from a crap chain restaurant, but then I wasn't effected by the KFC closures nor care if Nando runs out of chicken / Jamie Italian chain goes bust (other than obviously people losing work).
Having looked at the price differences on Deliveroo compared to the actual restaurant menu, I think it is the customers who pay the 30%.
No wonder diabetes has doubled in 20 years. It is national suicide by junk food.0 -
Apologies if my first comment was misdirected. This document is suddenly being circulated by Leavers who think it offers an alternative solution to full alignment, but it doesn't.Anorak said:
As a die-hard remainer I'm not desperate to show one-thing or another in this case. But it seemed a lot better than the apocalyptic situation some people would have one believe.williamglenn said:
Desperate stuff.Anorak said:Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).
That report was publicised at the time, and does not describe a frictionless border so it is not a viable solution.0 -
Let me rephrase that then. I think the majority of people will be happy with mostly frictionless.williamglenn said:
You're not the one who needs to be satisfied by it.RobD said:
I think mostly frictionless will be satisfactory.williamglenn said:
Desperate stuff.Anorak said:Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).
That report was publicised at the time, and does not describe a frictionless border so it is not a viable solution. 0 -
Mhh - why do I never watch anything on the Beeb then?Jonathan said:
Much of it created or originally developed by the BBC. :-)Floater said:
Netflix and Amazon are providing some great content.FrancisUrquhart said:Sky brings Netflix on board
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43242057
This is the sort of thing why I argue the licence fee is totally broken. The BBC while wed to the telly tax can't compete with the shifts happening in the modern world of content creation.
Murdoch has seen the tectonic plates shifting, and the Sky under new ownership are in an even better position to adapt with the times.
Oh of course - they get paid no matter what shite appears on our screens
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No, it shows the EU and UK positions are quite similar. Looking for a FTA and technological solutions.williamglenn said:
Apologies if my first comment was misdirected. This document is suddenly being circulated by Leavers who think it offers an alternative solution to full alignment, but it doesn't.Anorak said:
As a die-hard remainer I'm not desperate to show one-thing or another in this case. But it seemed a lot better than the apocalyptic situation some people would have one believe.williamglenn said:
Desperate stuff.Anorak said:Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).
That report was publicised at the time, and does not describe a frictionless border so it is not a viable solution.0 -
Fair enough. I find the whole customs, tariff, rules of origin marlarky rather esoteric. Recondite, even.williamglenn said:
Apologies if my first comment was misdirected. This document is suddenly being circulated by Leavers who think it offers an alternative solution to full alignment, but it doesn't.Anorak said:
As a die-hard remainer I'm not desperate to show one-thing or another in this case. But it seemed a lot better than the apocalyptic situation some people would have one believe.williamglenn said:
Desperate stuff.Anorak said:Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).
That report was publicised at the time, and does not describe a frictionless border so it is not a viable solution.
It seems sadly inevitable that the Northern Irish will be worse off as a result of whatever's put in place, hi-tech or otherwise.0 -
The problem with the solution in the Good Friday Agreement context, I suspect, is the answer to the first question. You still need the physical border. The answer to the second question is that it is possible to design processes compliant with EU regulation that get you through the physical border faster.Anorak said:
Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).
https://twitter.com/SirBasilBrush/status/9692274489016238080 -
In 2024 maybe not 2020 on the basis Livingstone and Boris both only served two terms.TGOHF said:Just had a flutter on George Osborne to be next London Mayor at 40/1.
If Corbyn wins in 2022 that would boost his chances as he could benefit from a mid term protest vote and he clearly has broader appeal in London at least than the average Tory0 -
Time to deploy the EU army !
Reality bites for Barmy Barnier
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-northern-ireland-border-brexit-eu-hard-no-deal-cabinet-irish-a8235096.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true
Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.
With the EU saying this week that a border is the only option if Britain refuses to stay aligned with European customs and regulation, the minister added: “If they want to put up a border, let them try.”
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He might even have the support of the local free rag.HYUFD said:
In 2024 maybe not 2020 on the basis Livingstone and Boris both only served two terms.TGOHF said:Just had a flutter on George Osborne to be next London Mayor at 40/1.
If Corbyn wins in 2022 that would boost his chances as he could benefit from a mid term protest vote and he clearly has broader appeal in London at least than the average Tory0 -
Again, there's nothing I could see in the GFA that precludes some customs checks.FF43 said:The problem with the solution in the Good Friday Agreement context, I suspect, is the answer to the first question. You still need the physical border. The answer to the second question is that it is possible to design processes compliant with EU regulation that get you through the physical border faster.
Anorak said:Some Brexit good news (I know, me neither).
twitter.com/SirBasilBrush/status/9692274489016238080 -
All part of his cunning plan no doubtSandyRentool said:
He might even have the support of the local free rag.HYUFD said:
In 2024 maybe not 2020 on the basis Livingstone and Boris both only served two terms.TGOHF said:Just had a flutter on George Osborne to be next London Mayor at 40/1.
If Corbyn wins in 2022 that would boost his chances as he could benefit from a mid term protest vote and he clearly has broader appeal in London at least than the average Tory0 -
I find that very difficult to believe. That a Cabinet Minister would speak to The Independent.TGOHF said:Time to deploy the EU army !
Reality bites for Barmy Barnier
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-northern-ireland-border-brexit-eu-hard-no-deal-cabinet-irish-a8235096.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true
Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.
With the EU saying this week that a border is the only option if Britain refuses to stay aligned with European customs and regulation, the minister added: “If they want to put up a border, let them try.”0 -
I see that satire truly is dead. @tyson claims he doesn't do personal attacks, and Jon Lansman says he is standing as General Sec of the Labour Party in order to help Jeremy Corbyn sweep away the old machine politics.0
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I don't think they are good odds at all.TGOHF said:Just had a flutter on George Osborne to be next London Mayor at 40/1.
Since Brexit London has become such a solid Labour city that I don't see anyone under an official Conservative label winning a mayoral election again for decades to come, even for "out of the box" Tory candidates like Boris or Osborne.
For the foreseeable future IMO, Labour would only be beatable from the right by an independent.
At the moment Khan's approval ratings are excellent and given the Labour dominance of London right now he's a total shoo-in for re-election in 2020.0 -
Given that Irish citizens had right of residency in the UK anyway, it doesn't need controlling.Scott_P said:
TAKE BACK CONTROL OF OUR BORDERS !!!TGOHF said:Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.
[sotto voce] except that one...0 -
If the border is unenforceable as the UK cabinet minister asserts, the EU will double down on technical solutions to manage it. Common regulation across Ireland would be the only workable solution.TGOHF said:Time to deploy the EU army !
Reality bites for Barmy Barnier
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-northern-ireland-border-brexit-eu-hard-no-deal-cabinet-irish-a8235096.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true
Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.
With the EU saying this week that a border is the only option if Britain refuses to stay aligned with European customs and regulation, the minister added: “If they want to put up a border, let them try.”0 -
And people are betting real money on George Osborne becoming London mayor. Clearly not as a Conservative these days.Richard_Nabavi said:I see that satire truly is dead. @tyson claims he doesn't do personal attacks, and Jon Lansman says he is standing as General Sec of the Labour Party in order to help Jeremy Corbyn sweep away the old machine politics.
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Oh, so technological solutions are possible? No need for plan C then.FF43 said:
If the border is unenforceable as the UK cabinet minister asserts, the EU will double down on technical solutions to manage it. Common regulation across Ireland would be the only workable solution.TGOHF said:Time to deploy the EU army !
Reality bites for Barmy Barnier
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-northern-ireland-border-brexit-eu-hard-no-deal-cabinet-irish-a8235096.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true
Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.
With the EU saying this week that a border is the only option if Britain refuses to stay aligned with European customs and regulation, the minister added: “If they want to put up a border, let them try.”
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Is it any worse than bacon ? Which according to some reports what you read is killing us. Anyways I have for a long time eaten less red meat and become more flexitarianism.Foxy said:
Deliveroo strikes me as emblematic of what is wrong with Britain. Youngsters on the gig economy riding in dark and snow to deliver junk food to couch potatoes who would be better off walking to the grocery store then to the kitchen.FF43 said:
I wouldn't be surprised that both parties are paying Deliveroo. Providing the delivery was their USP, but Just Eat and Uber so so as well now. Thinking about it, I haven't seen a Just Eat delivery rider recently.MarkHopkins said:FF43 said:
In principle you get a better meal from Deliveroo than Just Eat because they deal with fine dining (in relative terms) restaurants who see takeaway as another sales channel and don't want to do the delivery themselves. I believe Deliveroo charge those restaurants a 30% commission.FrancisUrquhart said:Deliveroo is one business I don't get. It seems a very expensive way to get a takeaway from a crap chain restaurant, but then I wasn't effected by the KFC closures nor care if Nando runs out of chicken / Jamie Italian chain goes bust (other than obviously people losing work).
Having looked at the price differences on Deliveroo compared to the actual restaurant menu, I think it is the customers who pay the 30%.
No wonder diabetes has doubled in 20 years. It is national suicide by junk food.0 -
Lansman wants to transform Labour into a member led organisation.Richard_Nabavi said:I see that satire truly is dead. @tyson claims he doesn't do personal attacks, and Jon Lansman says he is standing as General Sec of the Labour Party in order to help Jeremy Corbyn sweep away the old machine politics.
UNITE do not want this they want Unions to hold sway.
Whose side are PB Tories on given Jennie Formby or JL are the only 2 games in town.0 -
That made me laugh out loud, thanks!bigjohnowls said:Lansman wants to transform Labour into a member led organisation.
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Who are these nobodies you keep pasting Scott - like a yellow pages of self important metropolitan misanthropes who are legends in their own Latte breaks.Scott_P said:0 -
Not on any side. The Labour Party's affairs are its problem, although it must be deeply distressing for traditional Labour figures to see the parasite continuing to eat away at the party from the inside.bigjohnowls said:Whose side are PB Tories on given Jennie Formby or JL are the only 2 games in town.
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Not sure the Pulitzer committee will spend much time considering that tweet.RobD said:
No wonder the Indy is down he tubes if their journos spend more time tweeting their virtue than reporting the news.
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Only Livingstone actually stood and lost a 3rd (and 4th) time. Boris stood down. I wonder if he might have won re-election in 2016 had he stood. My gut says probably not, especially as Boris had come out for Leave by that point, but it would have been far closer than Khan vs Goldsmith.HYUFD said:
In 2024 maybe not 2020 on the basis Livingstone and Boris both only served two terms.TGOHF said:Just had a flutter on George Osborne to be next London Mayor at 40/1.
If Corbyn wins in 2022 that would boost his chances as he could benefit from a mid term protest vote and he clearly has broader appeal in London at least than the average Tory
I wonder if Labour might want to stand a new candidate in 2024 to prevent Khan falling into the Livingstone trap of turning stale and losing.0 -
Nobody and no-one feature quite heavily in the rhetoric of Daniel Hannan.TGOHF said:
Who are these nobodies you keep pasting ScottScott_P said:
https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/969229640400326656
https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/9692482918829260800 -
I've no idea what Jon Stone is trying to say there, but the Cabinet Minister quoted is just stating the obvious truth, that the UK has no interest in putting up any physical controls at the Irish border. Why on earth would we want to? What would we be trying to prevent?Scott_P said:0 -
That's a bit harsh, calling Remainers nobodies and no ones.williamglenn said: 0 -
Leonard's biggest challenge is keeping on-side the circa 30% of SLAB's support base which favours independence - he's still relatively unknown outside political circles:
https://inews.co.uk/news/scotland/richard-leonard-scots-wont-vote-im-english/0 -
Sorry, but who cares?
No Al-Beeb "even-handedness"; no Lib-Dhimmy 'bar-chart'? Events occur and grown-ups handle them.
So what do you do? Markets are fun for short-term gains: Invest long.0 -
Ask a Brexiteer...Richard_Nabavi said:Why on earth would we want to?
Tezza at PMQs yesterday was insistent on controlling our borders.*
*terms and exclusions apply, apparently...0 -
That was quite a tangent to zing off on william.williamglenn said:
Nobody and no-one feature quite heavily in the rhetoric of Daniel Hannan.TGOHF said:
Who are these nobodies you keep pasting ScottScott_P said:
https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/969229640400326656
https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/969248291882926080
Question - who will be manning this hard border ? The Gardai or crack EU troops from the 1690th Molenbeek fusiliers ??0 -
Clearly 'our borders' isn't meant to include all parts of the precious union.Scott_P said:
Ask a Brexiteer...Richard_Nabavi said:Why on earth would we want to?
Tezza at PMQs yesterday was insistent on controlling our borders.*
*terms and exclusions apply, apparently...0 -
Livingstone the Labour candidate lost after two terms as Mayor, Goldsmith the Tory candidate lost after two terms of a Tory Mayor. In 2024 therefore Osborne would likely have a good chance whoever Labour put up and especially if Corbyn is PM in midterm and West London and suburban Tories are motivated to come out and give Labour a kickingHHemmelig said:
Only Livingstone actually stood and lost a 3rd (and 4th) time. Boris stood down. I wonder if he might have won re-election in 2016 had he stood. My gut says probably not, especially as Boris had come out for Leave by that point, but it would have been far closer than Khan vs Goldsmith.HYUFD said:
In 2024 maybe not 2020 on the basis Livingstone and Boris both only served two terms.TGOHF said:Just had a flutter on George Osborne to be next London Mayor at 40/1.
If Corbyn wins in 2022 that would boost his chances as he could benefit from a mid term protest vote and he clearly has broader appeal in London at least than the average Tory
I wonder if Labour might want to stand a new candidate in 2024 to prevent Khan falling into the Livingstone trap of turning stale and losing.0 -
Imagine a Remainer designed remote controlled lift door.
It would always be shut because control means closed.
Like the EU - it would be useless.0 -
For immigration, yes. But since we have the Common Travel Area, and have done for many decades. that is completely irrelevant to Ireland. I can't think of a single person who has suggested that we shouldn't recognise EU standards on goods, so there's nothing to check (except whether people are smuggling guns'n'booze'n'fags of course, but that's no different to now).Scott_P said:
Ask a Brexiteer...Richard_Nabavi said:Why on earth would we want to?
Tezza at PMQs yesterday was insistent on controlling our borders.*
*terms and exclusions apply, apparently...0 -
If the UK says the Irish border is unenforceable, as this cabinet minister foolishly asserts*, the EU will prioritise Ireland over all other considerations of trade with the UK. Just because the UK government is grossly irresponsible doesn't mean the other party will be.RobD said:
Oh, so technological solutions are possible? No need for plan C then.FF43 said:
If the border is unenforceable as the UK cabinet minister asserts, the EU will double down on technical solutions to manage it. Common regulation across Ireland would be the only workable solution.TGOHF said:Time to deploy the EU army !
Reality bites for Barmy Barnier
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-northern-ireland-border-brexit-eu-hard-no-deal-cabinet-irish-a8235096.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true
Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.
With the EU saying this week that a border is the only option if Britain refuses to stay aligned with European customs and regulation, the minister added: “If they want to put up a border, let them try.”
* Because presumably he thinks that an argument for option B - technical solutions. It is possible that the Irish/EU have already come to the same conclusion about the impossibility of a managed border.0 -
Sad to hear the Bolsheviks and Trotskyites are at war. Worthy reminder that the Conservatives do not have a monopoly on disunity.0
-
What people don't get about plan C is that it is the minimalist option, not the maximalist one. Any plan A or B must be *better* in terms of the NI/Ireland situation, not merely adequate.RobD said:
Oh, so technological solutions are possible? No need for plan C then.FF43 said:
If the border is unenforceable as the UK cabinet minister asserts, the EU will double down on technical solutions to manage it. Common regulation across Ireland would be the only workable solution.TGOHF said:Time to deploy the EU army !
Reality bites for Barmy Barnier
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-northern-ireland-border-brexit-eu-hard-no-deal-cabinet-irish-a8235096.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true
Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.
With the EU saying this week that a border is the only option if Britain refuses to stay aligned with European customs and regulation, the minister added: “If they want to put up a border, let them try.”0 -
Yes indeed, and it seems that Corbyn is on the side of the Unions rather than the members. No doubt this is what he meant by the new politics. Goodness only knows what Labour moderates think of the choice before them?Morris_Dancer said:Sad to hear the Bolsheviks and Trotskyites are at war. Worthy reminder that the Conservatives do not have a monopoly on disunity.
0 -
Ho ho hobigjohnowls said:
Lansman wants to transform Labour into a member led organisation.Richard_Nabavi said:I see that satire truly is dead. @tyson claims he doesn't do personal attacks, and Jon Lansman says he is standing as General Sec of the Labour Party in order to help Jeremy Corbyn sweep away the old machine politics.
UNITE do not want this they want Unions to hold sway.
Whose side are PB Tories on given Jennie Formby or JL are the only 2 games in town.
Lansman wants to transform labour alright0 -
Murdoch is losing the race for Sky, Comcast and Disney have both put more bucks on the table. .FrancisUrquhart said:Sky brings Netflix on board
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43242057
This is the sort of thing why I argue the licence fee is totally broken. The BBC while wed to the telly tax can't compete with the shifts happening in the modern world of content creation.
Murdoch has seen the tectonic plates shifting, and the Sky under new ownership are in an even better position to adapt with the times.0 -
Tyson gives a wonderful timely example of hypocrisy of the left.Richard_Nabavi said:I see that satire truly is dead. @tyson claims he doesn't do personal attacks, and Jon Lansman says he is standing as General Sec of the Labour Party in order to help Jeremy Corbyn sweep away the old machine politics.
0 -
Who cares. We're too busy enjoying the sight of the Deputy Leader explaining why he should keep the £1/2 million quid he's trousered from a man whose parents had Hitler at their wedding.bigjohnowls said:
Lansman wants to transform Labour into a member led organisation.Richard_Nabavi said:I see that satire truly is dead. @tyson claims he doesn't do personal attacks, and Jon Lansman says he is standing as General Sec of the Labour Party in order to help Jeremy Corbyn sweep away the old machine politics.
UNITE do not want this they want Unions to hold sway.
Whose side are PB Tories on given Jennie Formby or JL are the only 2 games in town.
0 -
Cured meats such as ham and bacon are more linked to bowel cancer than directly to obesity. Obesity also contributes, but the nitrites in bacon seem to have a specific effect.Yorkcity said:
Is it any worse than bacon ? Which according to some reports what you read is killing us. Anyways I have for a long time eaten less red meat and become more flexitarianism.Foxy said:
Deliveroo strikes me as emblematic of what is wrong with Britain. Youngsters on the gig economy riding in dark and snow to deliver junk food to couch potatoes who would be better off walking to the grocery store then to the kitchen.FF43 said:
I wouldn't be surprised that both parties are paying Deliveroo. Providing the delivery was their USP, but Just Eat and Uber so so as well now. Thinking about it, I haven't seen a Just Eat delivery rider recently.MarkHopkins said:FF43 said:
In principle you get a better meal from Deliveroo than Just Eat because they deal with fine dining (in relative terms) restaurants who see takeaway as another sales channel and don't want to do the delivery themselves. I believe Deliveroo charge those restaurants a 30% commission.FrancisUrquhart said:Deliveroo is one business I don't get. It seems a very expensive way to get a takeaway from a crap chain restaurant, but then I wasn't effected by the KFC closures nor care if Nando runs out of chicken / Jamie Italian chain goes bust (other than obviously people losing work).
Having looked at the price differences on Deliveroo compared to the actual restaurant menu, I think it is the customers who pay the 30%.
No wonder diabetes has doubled in 20 years. It is national suicide by junk food.
0 -
You’re sounding positively HYUFD-ish.Richard_Nabavi said:
For immigration, yes. But since we have the Common Travel Area, and have done for many decades. that is completely irrelevant to Ireland. I can't think of a single person who has suggested that we shouldn't recognise EU standards on goods, so there's nothing to check (except whether people are smuggling guns'n'booze'n'fags of course, but that's no different to now).Scott_P said:
Ask a Brexiteer...Richard_Nabavi said:Why on earth would we want to?
Tezza at PMQs yesterday was insistent on controlling our borders.*
*terms and exclusions apply, apparently...0 -
That is what I said....Disney is in the prime position to leverage their existing position to move to the future, hence why he has already sold off $66bn of assets to them.OchEye said:
Murdoch is losing the race for Sky, Comcast and Disney have both put more bucks on the table. .FrancisUrquhart said:Sky brings Netflix on board
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43242057
This is the sort of thing why I argue the licence fee is totally broken. The BBC while wed to the telly tax can't compete with the shifts happening in the modern world of content creation.
Murdoch has seen the tectonic plates shifting, and the Sky under new ownership are in an even better position to adapt with the times.0 -
Personally, I have always found the machine politicians and fixers on the so-called 'moderate'/trade union wing of the Labour Party its least appealingRichard_Nabavi said:I see that satire truly is dead. @tyson claims he doesn't do personal attacks, and Jon Lansman says he is standing as General Sec of the Labour Party in order to help Jeremy Corbyn sweep away the old machine politics.
0 -
Plan C involves the economic annexation of part of the country.williamglenn said:
What people don't get about plan C is that it is the minimalist option, not the maximalist one. Any plan A or B must be *better* in terms of the NI/Ireland situation, not merely adequate.RobD said:
Oh, so technological solutions are possible? No need for plan C then.FF43 said:
If the border is unenforceable as the UK cabinet minister asserts, the EU will double down on technical solutions to manage it. Common regulation across Ireland would be the only workable solution.TGOHF said:Time to deploy the EU army !
Reality bites for Barmy Barnier
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-northern-ireland-border-brexit-eu-hard-no-deal-cabinet-irish-a8235096.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true
Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.
With the EU saying this week that a border is the only option if Britain refuses to stay aligned with European customs and regulation, the minister added: “If they want to put up a border, let them try.”
I suppose we could dispense with tiresome things like Westminster and just have the Commission run the country. Much more “minimalist” than present arrangements with layers of elections and MPs and wotnot.
0 -
0
-
Oh come on. The poor man. He was complaining earlier that he was trapped in Florence. Because of Brexit, apparently.Floater said:
Tyson gives a wonderful timely example of hypocrisy of the left.Richard_Nabavi said:I see that satire truly is dead. @tyson claims he doesn't do personal attacks, and Jon Lansman says he is standing as General Sec of the Labour Party in order to help Jeremy Corbyn sweep away the old machine politics.
I mean: being trapped in Florence. Have some pity.0 -
Is this an admission that Jeremy Corbyn's election was a cock-up?bigjohnowls said:Lansman wants to transform Labour into a member led organisation.
And I am not going to get my coat, it's too fecking cold and snowy out there. Even the inside of my woodstore has got snow all over it, it's blowing about harder than a whore Clinton is paying by the orgasm.0 -
I'm just baffled by the extraordinary contortions which people are adopting to make the Irish border an issue, when it clearly isn't. To repeat my question, why on earth would the UK want to put up border checks? There will literally be nothing to check if we have a trade agreement, and even in a no-deal WTO scenario, it wouldn't be worth doing physical checks since tariffs could be collected by a self-declaratory system and we're not going to exclude EU-compliant goods in any conceivable scenario.TOPPING said:
You’re sounding positively HYUFD-ish.Richard_Nabavi said:
For immigration, yes. But since we have the Common Travel Area, and have done for many decades. that is completely irrelevant to Ireland. I can't think of a single person who has suggested that we shouldn't recognise EU standards on goods, so there's nothing to check (except whether people are smuggling guns'n'booze'n'fags of course, but that's no different to now).Scott_P said:
Ask a Brexiteer...Richard_Nabavi said:Why on earth would we want to?
Tezza at PMQs yesterday was insistent on controlling our borders.*
*terms and exclusions apply, apparently...
I appreciate that most people going on about the border are purely using it as a crude attempt to undermine Brexit or attack Theresa May, but even allowing for that, it's such a completely feeble argument that I'm astonished anyone can keep a straight face when deploying it. There are plenty of other, much more difficult issues to worry about.0 -
That's based on 600 seats.bigjohnowls said:53 short i reckon but OGH says 3
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/969249928051642370
What's the latest on the boundary review?
Edit - no, my apologies, it can't be the SNP figure is too high if it's 600. That said it's 26 short not 53.0 -
Plan C involves a continuation of the status quo inasmuch as it affects Northern Ireland to the extent necessary to maintain the Good Friday Agreement and the all-island economy. It's the minimum necessary.welshowl said:
Plan C involves the economic annexation of part of the country.williamglenn said:
What people don't get about plan C is that it is the minimalist option, not the maximalist one. Any plan A or B must be *better* in terms of the NI/Ireland situation, not merely adequate.RobD said:
Oh, so technological solutions are possible? No need for plan C then.FF43 said:
If the border is unenforceable as the UK cabinet minister asserts, the EU will double down on technical solutions to manage it. Common regulation across Ireland would be the only workable solution.TGOHF said:Time to deploy the EU army !
Reality bites for Barmy Barnier
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-northern-ireland-border-brexit-eu-hard-no-deal-cabinet-irish-a8235096.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true
Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.
With the EU saying this week that a border is the only option if Britain refuses to stay aligned with European customs and regulation, the minister added: “If they want to put up a border, let them try.”
I suppose we could dispense with tiresome things like Westminster and just have the Commission run the country. Much more “minimalist” than present arrangements with layers of elections and MPs and wotnot.
Alternatively there could be Plan A - an agreement that the UK as a whole maintain at least as close a relationship with the EU as covered by Plan C. Or Plan B - a specific solution for Northern Ireland, in other words the population of Northern Ireland could vote for unification.0 -
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tonyblairs-speech-fullas-urges-eu-12109511
Blair’s speech is fascinating. It’s a clear, logical argument for why Europe makes sense for Britain in the world today and the world to come.
Who knows what would have happened if Cameron had actually made a positive case for Europe? He certainly couldn’t have done it in the 4 months he gave himself.0 -
Has BJO got any young grand kids? Cos if he does, I have a good idea what they are all getting for their Birthdays.
https://order-order.com/2018/03/01/karl-marx-clothing-range-launched-corbynista-kids/0 -
It's a national security issue for Ireland and they have every right to negotiate in the way that they are, especially when people on the UK side openly push for Irexit or treating Northern Ireland as an ungoverned space.Richard_Nabavi said:
I'm just baffled by the extraordinary contortions which people are adopting to make the Irish border an issue, when it clearly isn't. To repeat my question, why on earth would the UK want to put up border checks? There will literally be nothing to check if we have a trade agreement, and even in a no-deal WTO scenario, it wouldn't be worth doing physical checks since tariffs could be collected by a self-declaratory system and we're not going to exclude EU-compliant goods in any conceivable scenario.TOPPING said:
You’re sounding positively HYUFD-ish.Richard_Nabavi said:
For immigration, yes. But since we have the Common Travel Area, and have done for many decades. that is completely irrelevant to Ireland. I can't think of a single person who has suggested that we shouldn't recognise EU standards on goods, so there's nothing to check (except whether people are smuggling guns'n'booze'n'fags of course, but that's no different to now).Scott_P said:
Ask a Brexiteer...Richard_Nabavi said:Why on earth would we want to?
Tezza at PMQs yesterday was insistent on controlling our borders.*
*terms and exclusions apply, apparently...
I appreciate that most people going on about the border are purely using it as a crude attempt to undermine Brexit or attack Theresa May, but even allowing for that, it's such a completely feeble argument that I'm astonished anyone can keep a straight face when deploying it. There are plenty of other, much more difficult issues to worry about.0 -
Only got 9 and they will have to make do with SWFC wearFrancisUrquhart said:Has BJO got any young grand kids? Cos if he does, I have a good idea what they are all getting for their Birthdays.
https://order-order.com/2018/03/01/karl-marx-clothing-range-launched-corbynista-kids/0 -
Is Karl Marx wear too expensive?bigjohnowls said:
Only got 9 and they will have to make do with SWFC wearFrancisUrquhart said:Has BJO got any young grand kids? Cos if he does, I have a good idea what they are all getting for their Birthdays.
https://order-order.com/2018/03/01/karl-marx-clothing-range-launched-corbynista-kids/0 -
Surely he can not be blamed for who his parents invited to their wedding ?Cyclefree said:
Who cares. We're too busy enjoying the sight of the Deputy Leader explaining why he should keep the £1/2 million quid he's trousered from a man whose parents had Hitler at their wedding.bigjohnowls said:
Lansman wants to transform Labour into a member led organisation.Richard_Nabavi said:I see that satire truly is dead. @tyson claims he doesn't do personal attacks, and Jon Lansman says he is standing as General Sec of the Labour Party in order to help Jeremy Corbyn sweep away the old machine politics.
UNITE do not want this they want Unions to hold sway.
Whose side are PB Tories on given Jennie Formby or JL are the only 2 games in town.0 -
They can do what they like, of course, but that doesn't alter the fact the UK has no interest in putting up border controls. If the EU and Ireland want to, well, that would be a great pity, but they have no need to in any scenario. (Cue the usual nonsense about EU regulations requiring inspections. Who sets EU regulations?)williamglenn said:It's a national security issue for Ireland and they have every right to negotiate in the way that they are, especially when people on the UK side openly push for Irexit or treating Northern Ireland as an ungoverned space.
0 -
FU more obsessed with Corbyn than SteveF!!FrancisUrquhart said:Has BJO got any young grand kids? Cos if he does, I have a good idea what they are all getting for their Birthdays.
https://order-order.com/2018/03/01/karl-marx-clothing-range-launched-corbynista-kids/0 -
Ah, so free Owls will be given out by Labour in accordance with the famous Twitter pledge?bigjohnowls said:
Only got 9 and they will have to make do with SWFC wearFrancisUrquhart said:Has BJO got any young grand kids? Cos if he does, I have a good idea what they are all getting for their Birthdays.
https://order-order.com/2018/03/01/karl-marx-clothing-range-launched-corbynista-kids/0 -
Does not the GFA say NI will not transfer its sovereignty without NI saying so? If so the Commission’s crackpot, malign, and aggressive stance ( even if it’s an opening gambit for negotiations) has all the aerodynamics of half a house brick without that consent, as Ms Foster will doubtless tell them at full volume. I don’t blame her.williamglenn said:
Plan C involves a continuation of the status quo inasmuch as it affects Northern Ireland to the extent necessary to maintain the Good Friday Agreement and the all-island economy. It's the minimum necessary.welshowl said:
Plan C involves the economic annexation of part of the country.williamglenn said:
What people don't get about plan C is that it is the minimalist option, not the maximalist one. Any plan A or B must be *better* in terms of the NI/Ireland situation, not merely adequate.RobD said:
Oh, so technological solutions are possible? No need for plan C then.FF43 said:
If the border is unenforceable as the UK cabinet minister asserts, the EU will double down on technical solutions to manage it. Common regulation across Ireland would be the only workable solution.TGOHF said:Time to deploy the EU army !
Reality bites for Barmy Barnier
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-northern-ireland-border-brexit-eu-hard-no-deal-cabinet-irish-a8235096.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true
Britain would refuse to enforce any new border in Ireland even if there is a ‘no deal’ Brexit, a Cabinet minister has told The Independent.
With the EU saying this week that a border is the only option if Britain refuses to stay aligned with European customs and regulation, the minister added: “If they want to put up a border, let them try.”
I suppose we could dispense with tiresome things like Westminster and just have the Commission run the country. Much more “minimalist” than present arrangements with layers of elections and MPs and wotnot.
Alternatively there could be Plan A - an agreement that the UK as a whole maintain at least as close a relationship with the EU as covered by Plan C. Or Plan B - a specific solution for Northern Ireland, in other words the population of Northern Ireland could vote for unification.
There again the EU isn’t big on consent of the governed is it?0 -
First, you are ignoring the history of the island of Ireland. Secondly, there is an inherent contradiction which makes people throw up their hands in frustration: we Brexited to take back control. But for the Irish border, we don't want to take back control so won't take back control even though in theory we could take back control.Richard_Nabavi said:
I'm just baffled by the extraordinary contortions which people are adopting to make the Irish border an issue, when it clearly isn't. To repeat my question, why on earth would the UK want to put up border checks? There will literally be nothing to check if we have a trade agreement, and even in a no-deal WTO scenario, it wouldn't be worth doing physical checks since tariffs could be collected by a self-declaratory system and we're not going to exclude EU-compliant goods in any conceivable scenario.TOPPING said:
You’re sounding positively HYUFD-ish.Richard_Nabavi said:
For immigration, yes. But since we have the Common Travel Area, and have done for many decades. that is completely irrelevant to Ireland. I can't think of a single person who has suggested that we shouldn't recognise EU standards on goods, so there's nothing to check (except whether people are smuggling guns'n'booze'n'fags of course, but that's no different to now).Scott_P said:
Ask a Brexiteer...Richard_Nabavi said:Why on earth would we want to?
Tezza at PMQs yesterday was insistent on controlling our borders.*
*terms and exclusions apply, apparently...
I appreciate that most people going on about the border are purely using it as a crude attempt to undermine Brexit or attack Theresa May, but even allowing for that, it's such a completely feeble argument that I'm astonished anyone can keep a straight face when deploying it. There are plenty of other, much more difficult issues to worry about.
There is your metaphor for the whole of Brexit.
We theoretically might or might not be able to do something, but the practicality and illogicality of doing it means that we won't do it. So we are in the status quo ante. And all for what? For absolutely nothing, because all the things we have grown to value, live with and accept, we are nominally throwing away only to try to recreate it exactly as it was before we started.
It is the very definition of bonkers.0
