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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,337

    Whiff whaff to decide whether to leave the customs union?
    Hardly seems fair as I am sure Boris is a master of the whaffing, although on reflection I don't even know which side he is on in that fight.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited February 2018
    kle4 said:

    Hardly seems fair as I am sure Boris is a master of the whaffing, although on reflection I don't even know which side he is on in that fight.
    :grin::lol:
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Foxy said:

    Should be a fun day out. What could possibly go wrong?
    Definitely when Theresa orders one of her Cabinet ministers to do something, the thing is as good as done. Definitely. So should be plain sailing.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Because completely different people, in completely different contexts, have said anti-Semitic things about him, is the argument, I think. There is a new flavour of smear here where if A says something, and B quite unconnectedly says something about the same thing, and you know very well there is no causal connection, you say A is *complicit* in what B says, and vv.

    What is really happening is that the left is smarting so badly from being correctly accused of anti-Semitism, it has leapt at the chance of making incorrect allegations against other people.

    But what a storm in a teacup. How many protocols do you get for £400,000 these days, after all? The story is "Foolish old man spends money foolishly," and anyone who thinks that "foolish old man" is a dog whistle allusion to a well-known 1930s nazi anti-Semitic trope, can keep it to themselves.
    Just because you don't "get it" doesn't mean it hasn't caused a great deal of offence.

    A lot of Trump supporters find nothing offensive in what he's said...
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Anorak said:

    Just because you don't "get it" doesn't mean it hasn't caused a great deal of offence.

    A lot of Trump supporters find nothing offensive in what he's said...
    I don't see what "get it" means (nor why you write it in quotes)? Perhaps you could explain how you think the Telegraph would have reported this story if the facts were all the same except that George Soros were the verifiably goy, John Smith? What, specifically, would be different?
  • Sandpit said:

    I read that, and all the comments under it, and all the comments here, and still don’t get it. The article made no mention of Jews or Jewishness, Rob Ford notes that other people who don’t like Soros don’t like him because he’s Jewish, but the Telegraph article doesn’t say any of that, only that a rich foreign man give a big cheque to a Remain campaign.

    Must be too late for my frazzled brain, beer o’clock I think.
    The style it is written in, talking about secret plots, etc, is like a paint-by-numbers version of writing about an international Jewish conspiracy, with the exception of not directly using the word Jewish.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124

    The style it is written in, talking about secret plots, etc, is like a paint-by-numbers version of writing about an international Jewish conspiracy, with the exception of not directly using the word Jewish.
    I actually don’t think Nick Timothy is anti-Semitic. I just think the writing here is incredibly careless, if not negligent.

    Timothy, and the Daily Telegraph, have a responsibility not to pander to this sort of meme. Timothy is a smart chap, it’s just amazing he didn’t realise the kind of narrative he is reinforcing. But I will give him the benefit of the doubt.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    It could of course be pointed out, I think(?), that significant roots of anti-Semitism lie not in actual dislike of Jews but dislike of ("rich") bankers. Whose profession historically tended to be dominated by Jews because their religion allowed it where others didn't. In other words many people didn't come to get a negative impression of bankers because they were Jews, but Jews because they were bankers.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,814
    Am I understanding this right? The UK wants third parties to PRETEND we have FTA and similar agreements with them, even though we haven't signed anything with those parties and the original agreements no longer apply to us?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,527

    I actually don’t think Nick Timothy is anti-Semitic. I just think the writing here is incredibly careless, if not negligent.

    Do you think he's really given it any deep thought? His rhetoric about 'citizens of nowhere' and denials of anti-Semitism on the basis of being 'pro-Israel' certainly don't show much nuance about the position of British Jews in his worldview.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,615
    FF43 said:

    Am I understanding this right? The UK wants third parties to PRETEND we have FTA and similar agreements with them, even though we haven't signed anything with those parties and the original agreements no longer apply to us?

    Yep. Imagine many countries will agree - in exchange for a few favours...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,527
    FF43 said:

    Am I understanding this right? The UK wants third parties to PRETEND we have FTA and similar agreements with them, even though we haven't signed anything with those parties and the original agreements no longer apply to us?

    This is the technical note. It uses the Vienna Convention as a justification for why the third-parties should take the context of the transition period into account and act as if nothing has yet changed.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/680366/Technical_Note_-_International_Agreements_in_the_Implementation_Period_-_CLEAN.pdf
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    The style it is written in, talking about secret plots, etc, is like a paint-by-numbers version of writing about an international Jewish conspiracy, with the exception of not directly using the word Jewish.
    Well, yes, and calling anyone a twat is definitely anti semitic, because "twat" is obviously "Jewish twat" with the word "Jewish" left out.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,337
    Scott_P said:
    Labour MPs leaking about having the spine to stand up to Oh Jeremy? Have we returned to pre June 2017?
  • This is the technical note. It uses the Vienna Convention as a justification for why the third-parties should take the context of the transition period into account and act as if nothing has yet changed.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/680366/Technical_Note_-_International_Agreements_in_the_Implementation_Period_-_CLEAN.pdf
    The Vienna Convention?

    This means nothing to me.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,814
    edited February 2018
    rkrkrk said:

    Yep. Imagine many countries will agree - in exchange for a few favours...
    To be clear about this, the third parties literally won't agree, because of lack of time or it's too complicated? The UK wants them to pretend they have agreed, as I understand, but none of this has legal status. As these will cover sensitive topics like nuclear fuel, personal data I can see problems. It makes planning a nightmare I would have thought. Say you are an airline plying the highly competitive trans Atlantic airline. Your competitors can go to a US court and get you shut down because your flights are illegal. Or you are a British company trying to get a remedy in a foreign territory under a treaty that doesn't exist.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Dow and S&P 500 both about to close over 3% down. End times ahoy.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    George Soros has probably been the subject of more anti-Semitic abuse than any other single living person. Of course it has to be mentioned in the context of allegations of "secret plots" about him.
    Even using "probably" you can come nowhere near being able to justify the first sentence. Think you might benefit from thinking.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,938
    edited February 2018
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Dow and S&P 500 both about to close over 3% down. End times ahoy.

    Dow closed down 4.16%
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Dow closed down 4.16%
    Bugger me, so it did.

    Those pesky international conspirators.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,615
    FF43 said:

    To be clear about this, the third parties literally won't agree, because of lack of time or it's too complicated? The UK wants them to pretend they have agreed, as I understand, but none of this has legal status. As these will cover sensitive topics like nuclear fuel, personal data I can see problems. It makes planning a nightmare I would have thought. Say you are an airline plying the highly competitive trans Atlantic airline. Your competitors can go to a US court and get you shut down because your flights are illegal. Or you are a British company trying to get a remedy in a foreign territory under a treaty that doesn't exist.
    I remember a discussion with mr Meeks on this issue.
    I wondered whether we really would see flights grounded/similar or whether we would just all agree to quietly ignore the law.
  • Scott_P said:
    Remainers talking to remainers - will not change our exit
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Not really because oaks and beeches are mutually exclusive categories, whereas Brexitry and anti-semitism —- not so much.
    You can't really believe this. If so then you'll have to re-christen yourself "Sleep Walker".
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,814
    FF43 said:

    To be clear about this, the third parties literally won't agree, because of lack of time or it's too complicated? The UK wants them to pretend they have agreed, as I understand, but none of this has legal status. As these will cover sensitive topics like nuclear fuel, personal data I can see problems. It makes planning a nightmare I would have thought. Say you are an airline plying the highly competitive trans Atlantic airline. Your competitors can go to a US court and get you shut down because your flights are illegal. Or you are a British company trying to get a remedy in a foreign territory under a treaty that doesn't exist.
    Delving deeper, it seems the third parties still need to agree. In that sense nothing has changed. Instead of agreeing a new text, they agree to adopt the existing text with substitutions like "for 'EU member state' read 'UK as a vassal state of the EU' "
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Charles said:

    Plenty of them - one was so duddish that we shipped him to New Zealand where he went bankrupt running a sheep farm...
    Presumably chose his occupation so that he wouldn't miss the girls he left behind
  • Remainers talking to remainers - will not change our exit
    Also not mentioning that this cuts both ways - they don't recognise our licences, we don't recognise theirs......
  • The style it is written in, talking about secret plots, etc, is like a paint-by-numbers version of writing about an international Jewish conspiracy, with the exception of not directly using the word Jewish.
    The great thing about dog whistles is that usually only dogs can hear them, and unless you're actually caught puffing strenuously with whistle in gob, you can deny getting the pooches worked up.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,527

    A nation divided......

    The DUP's Brexiteer brethren don't seem too bothered about Northern Ireland.
  • The DUP's Brexiteer brethren don't seem too bothered about Northern Ireland.
    Neither do Remainers much.....#5 on their list of priorities, barely a quarter of them....and fewer than want to be able to do trade deals.....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,959
    Great graphic. Feeling sorry for Mrs May doesn’t come easily to me but....
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Oh dear. Let the healing begin ;).
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    The great thing about dog whistles is that usually only dogs can hear them, and unless you're actually caught puffing strenuously with whistle in gob, you can deny getting the pooches worked up.
    Yes, hence the metaphor. But tell us: if you say "international Jewish conspiracy" that's anti-semitic, and if you say "international conspiracy" that's just a way of saying "international Jewish conspiracy" in a dog whistleish way, duh, OBVIOUSLY; so what is the correct way of referring to a conspiracy whose only relevant quality is that it is international?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,959

    The Vienna Convention?

    This means nothing to me.
    LOL. Very good.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    DavidL said:

    LOL. Very good.
    Don't encourage him
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    To explore the outer purlieus of relevance I suggest that "the Donald" might want to consider consulting Elton John.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCmyZcBnC2M

    http://www.aihr.com.au/blog/celebrity-hair-transplant-elton-johns-hair-restoration-success
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    Yes, hence the metaphor. But tell us: if you say "international Jewish conspiracy" that's anti-semitic, and if you say "international conspiracy" that's just a way of saying "international Jewish conspiracy" in a dog whistleish way, duh, OBVIOUSLY; so what is the correct way of referring to a conspiracy whose only relevant quality is that it is international?
    Can you give an example of this nothing but international conspiracy of which you speak?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Can you give an example of this nothing but international conspiracy of which you speak?
    The alleged interference by Russia in UK and us elections and referendums.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,959
    Scott_P said:

    Don't encourage him
    Loved the Private Eye cartoon.
  • Oooh


    Jeremy Corbyn told Michel Barnier that he was open to keeping Britain in the customs union after Brexit, a memo circulated to European nations suggests.

    The Labour leader met Mr Barnier, the European Union's chief Brexit negotiator, in London on Monday, where Mr Corbyn promised to run the Brexit negotiations “very differently” if he came to power - and dangled a raft of possible concessions to the EU.

    According to a memo of the meeting, drawn up after a debrief between Mr Barnier and ambassadors from the other 27 EU nations, Mr Corbyn said that he was willing to allow the UK to submit to the rulings of the European Court of Justice should he become prime minister.

    The document, seen by The Daily Telegraph, also states that Mr Corbyn said he could offer a “unilateral guarantee” on the rights of EU citizens during transition.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/02/08/eu-memo-barnier-meeting-raises-questions-jeremy-corbyns-brexit/
  • Elegantly and eloquently argued - but I’m not sure it’s the Leavers raging against the dieing of the light....
  • Toms said:

    To explore the outer purlieus of relevance I suggest that "the Donald" might want to consider consulting Elton John.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCmyZcBnC2M

    http://www.aihr.com.au/blog/celebrity-hair-transplant-elton-johns-hair-restoration-success

    Like a hair weave in the wind.

    It's funny that everyone assume Don's bawheidedness was at the front when in fact it was all going on at the back.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,959
    TGOHF said:
    Maybe but will anything save the SPD from the consequences of being the junior partner in yet another Grand Coalition?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,647
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Yes, hence the metaphor. But tell us: if you say "international Jewish conspiracy" that's anti-semitic, and if you say "international conspiracy" that's just a way of saying "international Jewish conspiracy" in a dog whistleish way, duh, OBVIOUSLY; so what is the correct way of referring to a conspiracy whose only relevant quality is that it is international?
    Yes you are right.

    If you are a seven year old.

    If you are a grown up with a lifetime of being able to contextualise things you read and hear, then not so much.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,959

    Oooh


    Jeremy Corbyn told Michel Barnier that he was open to keeping Britain in the customs union after Brexit, a memo circulated to European nations suggests.

    The Labour leader met Mr Barnier, the European Union's chief Brexit negotiator, in London on Monday, where Mr Corbyn promised to run the Brexit negotiations “very differently” if he came to power - and dangled a raft of possible concessions to the EU.

    According to a memo of the meeting, drawn up after a debrief between Mr Barnier and ambassadors from the other 27 EU nations, Mr Corbyn said that he was willing to allow the UK to submit to the rulings of the European Court of Justice should he become prime minister.

    The document, seen by The Daily Telegraph, also states that Mr Corbyn said he could offer a “unilateral guarantee” on the rights of EU citizens during transition.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/02/08/eu-memo-barnier-meeting-raises-questions-jeremy-corbyns-brexit/

    Maybe he should some time considering the graphic downthread.
  • New thread
  • NEW THREAD

  • “There is nothing more elite than going to Eton”

    Except possibly working for the BBC.... as Mike Smithson did....
This discussion has been closed.