politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Damian Green resigns
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Damian Green resigns
Follow @MSmithsonPB // < ![CDATA[ // < ![CDATA[ xfunction(d,s,id){var js,fjs=d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0];if(!d.getElementById(id)){js=d.createElement(s);js.id=id;js.src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js";fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js,fjs);}}(document,"script","twitter-wjs"); // ]]>
Comments
-
First!0
-
Second, like police integrity.0
-
not second, but third.
https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/9435836644866498580 -
-
Damn! I so nearly placed a bet on next out from cabinet but I chickened out.
Soooooo...... who's next out?0 -
Will Davis follow through on his threat?
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over0 -
Didn't DD deny that he would follow Green out the door???0
-
@bbclaurak: 1. Kate Maltby's family have released a statement - 'We are not surprised to find that the inquiry found Mr Green to have been untruthful as a minister, nor to that they found our daughter to be a plausible witness.' - they say she won't make further comment tonight0
-
The sleazy old Oxonian lech wanted to hang on and was pushed out by Mrs May?
Mrs May is creating needless enemies.0 -
He might be looking for an excuse. And who could blame him?williamglenn said:Will Davis follow through on his threat?
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over0 -
What the fuck for?0
-
Hopefully she'll appoint Jeremy Hunt as First Secretary of State.0
-
https://twitter.com/ashcowburn/status/943582229929881600
Sacked see last paragraph text of letter or asked to resign.0 -
-
Didn’t Green resign?williamglenn said:Will Davis follow through on his threat?
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over0 -
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/943582846949691397blueblue said:What the fuck for?
0 -
No - she is doing the right thingTheScreamingEagles said:The sleazy old Oxonian lech wanted to hang on and was pushed out by Mrs May?
Mrs May is creating needless enemies.0 -
Green resigned, so I guess he won't have to have a useless by-election.SandyRentool said:Didn't DD deny that he would follow Green out the door???
0 -
She'll probably appoint Gavin Williamson...TheScreamingEagles said:Hopefully she'll appoint Jeremy Hunt as First Secretary of State.
0 -
So he has turned out to be a lying dratsab after all. Who'd have thunk it.0
-
Looking at porn on a work computer is not right (albeit MPs cannot be sacked, as they are accountable to their electorates), but that is the problem for me is the former policeman have acted worse than what Green presumably did (it says he made misleading statements, so presumably his categorical denials were false). Police now have every reason to gather all sorts of notes irrelevant to investigations, keep personal copies and then leak it. If there was nothing illegal in what he did but it was right for the police to report the breach of IT policy (if there was one at the time) to the parliamentary authorities to take some sort of action at the time, fine, but this tells police no need, just hold it back for the papers. It distracts from more serious allegations and concerns, unfortunately.TwistedFireStopper said:
I agree. Green should have been sacked 10 years ago, when it first came out that he looked at frankie on his work's computer, not now because an ex copper kept hold of evidence that he should have destroyed.RobD said:
Why he lied it about it I do not know, he had to know it would come out after the investigation started.
Why do we need one at all?williamglenn said:
She'll probably appoint Gavin Williamson...TheScreamingEagles said:Hopefully she'll appoint Jeremy Hunt as First Secretary of State.
0 -
You mean Gavin Williamson will appoint Gavin Williamson.williamglenn said:
She'll probably appoint Gavin Williamson...TheScreamingEagles said:Hopefully she'll appoint Jeremy Hunt as First Secretary of State.
0 -
Looks to be two statements made by Green on 4th and 11th November which were misleading which was key and fact he made Ms Maltby feel uncomfortable. Anyway at least this resignation hopefully nips the issue in the bud.0
-
Hmph, seems rather excessive.
That said, even aside from this whole episode, his job seemed to be a bit pointless. What actually IS a "First Secretary of State"?0 -
Polite, almost friendly, but quite damning letter. I wonder if he was given the option to "choose to resign".0
-
Has Davis ever said on record he would resign if Green was sacked? No. In any case this resignation only occurred after an inquiry not on a whim.williamglenn said:Will Davis follow through on his threat?
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over0 -
"Asked to resign". It could get very messy now.RobD said:
Didn’t Green resign?williamglenn said:Will Davis follow through on his threat?
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over0 -
Three separate cabinet resignations in about seven weeks - is that a record?0
-
That is it apparently but the PM appears to be queasy about the police leaksHYUFD said:Looks to be two statements made by Green on 4th and 11th November which were misleading which was key and fact he made Ms Maltby feel uncomfortable. Anyway at least this resignation hopefully nips the issue in the bud.
0 -
Apparently May asked Simon Brodkin to hand Green his P45.MaxPB said:
Green resigned, so I guess he won't have to have a useless by-election.SandyRentool said:Didn't DD deny that he would follow Green out the door???
0 -
So much my plans for a quiet, PB free Christmas.0
-
WhyTwistedFireStopper said:
"Asked to resign". It could get very messy now.RobD said:
Didn’t Green resign?williamglenn said:Will Davis follow through on his threat?
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over0 -
Looking at his resignation letter, it seems that the issue is that he did not properly disclose that the pornography allegations were raised with him at the time of the initial police enquiry in 2008. So, he has misled people.
It all strikes me as very weak. This was never a crime, and the policeinvolved have basically ruined his career.
Are the government actually in control?0 -
-
No.houndtang said:Three separate cabinet resignations in about seven weeks - is that a record?
0 -
Handed the revolver and whisky.NickPalmer said:Polite, almost friendly, but quite damning letter. I wonder if he was given the option to "choose to resign".
I don't like to see people sacked.0 -
-
Green was a former Davis supporter and will now be in the Davis column for the next leadership election certainly but I expect him to lie low until the end of May's term as leader.TheScreamingEagles said:The sleazy old Oxonian lech wanted to hang on and was pushed out by Mrs May?
Mrs May is creating needless enemies.0 -
We had 3 within days around the time of one of the attempted coups against Brown (Jacqui Smith, Hazel Blears, James Purnell).TheScreamingEagles said:
No.houndtang said:Three separate cabinet resignations in about seven weeks - is that a record?
0 -
"Asked to resign" is a sacking by any other name. I guess it all depends on if Davis wants to jack it all in.Big_G_NorthWales said:
WhyTwistedFireStopper said:
"Asked to resign". It could get very messy now.RobD said:
Didn’t Green resign?williamglenn said:Will Davis follow through on his threat?
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over0 -
-
As has been long noted the distinction between sacking and resigning is very small in politics. This one seems particularly so, since he was asked to resign according to the letter, not that she had 'accepted his resignation'. What if he didn't agree to resign? Well presumably he'd have been sacked. So other than anyone betting on sacking, and those seeking to avoid following through on a threat around a sacking, there's no real difference.RobD said:
Didn’t Green resign?williamglenn said:Will Davis follow through on his threat?
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over
I assume such marginal distinctions is why markets talk about 'next to leave' rather than sacking or resigning?0 -
Davis will stay. Green got himself into the mess and left the PM with little choiceTwistedFireStopper said:
"Asked to resign" is a sacking by any other name. I guess it all depends on if Davis wants to jack it all in.Big_G_NorthWales said:
WhyTwistedFireStopper said:
"Asked to resign". It could get very messy now.RobD said:
Didn’t Green resign?williamglenn said:Will Davis follow through on his threat?
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over0 -
We used to call them accelerated departures.foxinsoxuk said:
Handed the revolver and whisky.NickPalmer said:Polite, almost friendly, but quite damning letter. I wonder if he was given the option to "choose to resign".
I don't like to see people sacked.0 -
Given how long this has been dragging on for there are 2 salient points:
1) The PM feels more secure in her position now she has completed Brexit Phase 1.
2) The PM waits until almost Christmas to bury this story so by the New Year most people will have forgotten all about this.0 -
"Fruit of the poisoned tree" is an American doctrine, not an English one.Scott_P said:0 -
He won't unless this resignation created momentum for a no confidence vote in May which is unlikely.TwistedFireStopper said:
"Asked to resign" is a sacking by any other name. I guess it all depends on if Davis wants to jack it all in.Big_G_NorthWales said:
WhyTwistedFireStopper said:
"Asked to resign". It could get very messy now.RobD said:
Didn’t Green resign?williamglenn said:Will Davis follow through on his threat?
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over0 -
What has he resigned for ?0
-
It is perfectly possible for the former coppers to be investigated. It is very likely both were in the wrong.kle4 said:
Looking at porn on a work computer is not right (albeit MPs cannot be sacked, as they are accountable to their electorates), but that is the problem for me is the former policeman have acted worse than what Green presumably did (it says he made misleading statements, so presumably his categorical denials were false). Police now have every reason to gather all sorts of notes irrelevant to investigations, keep personal copies and then leak it. If there was nothing illegal in what he did but it was right for the police to report the breach of IT policy (if there was one at the time) to the parliamentary authorities to take some sort of action at the time, fine, but this tells police no need, just hold it back for the papers. It distracts from more serious allegations and concerns, unfortunately.TwistedFireStopper said:
I agree. Green should have been sacked 10 years ago, when it first came out that he looked at frankie on his work's computer, not now because an ex copper kept hold of evidence that he should have destroyed.RobD said:
Why he lied it about it I do not know, he had to know it would come out after the investigation started.
Why do we need one at all?williamglenn said:
She'll probably appoint Gavin Williamson...TheScreamingEagles said:Hopefully she'll appoint Jeremy Hunt as First Secretary of State.
0 -
TwistedFireStopper said:
"Asked to resign" is a sacking by any other name. I guess it all depends on if Davis wants to jack it all in.Big_G_NorthWales said:
WhyTwistedFireStopper said:
"Asked to resign". It could get very messy now.RobD said:
Didn’t Green resign?williamglenn said:Will Davis follow through on his threat?
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over
While I personally could have been persuaded his original offence was not sack worthy given the means of it being brought to light, that he lied about it it seems would make it doubly hard for May, painfully hard, to make that case given the conflation with other allegations.Scott_P said:0 -
Yes, I think she still has reservations about thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
That is it apparently but the PM appears to be queasy about the police leaksHYUFD said:Looks to be two statements made by Green on 4th and 11th November which were misleading which was key and fact he made Ms Maltby feel uncomfortable. Anyway at least this resignation hopefully nips the issue in the bud.
0 -
Well with Jacqui Smith it was more that she was going to stand down but that's the one I was thinking about.Danny565 said:
We had 3 within days around the time of one of the attempted coups against Brown (Jacqui Smith, Hazel Blears, James Purnell).TheScreamingEagles said:
No.houndtang said:Three separate cabinet resignations in about seven weeks - is that a record?
Those three were a mixture of expenses (Smith and Blears) and a coup (Purnell)0 -
For making Kate Maltby uncomfortable and lying about it by the looks of it.TGOHF said:What has he resigned for ?
0 -
I see Green has resigned to spend more time on porn sites........
Now then what about Davis! He should surely resign as well as he has a record of resigning on points of principle. Indeed he triggered a by election some years ago on a point of principle. For all we know given how poorly he is negotiating he may want to quit anyway?0 -
So Robert Peston was full of shite and The Sunday Times & Nick Robinson were spot on.0
-
And I hope damn well that they are.foxinsoxuk said:
It is perfectly possible for the former coppers to be investigated. It is very likely both were in the wrong.kle4 said:
Looking at porn on a work computer is not right (albeit MPs cannot be sacked, as they are accountable to their electorates), but that is the problem for me is the former policeman have acted worse than what Green presumably did (it says he made misleading statements, so presumably his categorical denials were false). Police now have every reason to gather all sorts of notes irrelevant to investigations, keep personal copies and then leak it. If there was nothing illegal in what he did but it was right for the police to report the breach of IT policy (if there was one at the time) to the parliamentary authorities to take some sort of action at the time, fine, but this tells police no need, just hold it back for the papers. It distracts from more serious allegations and concerns, unfortunately.TwistedFireStopper said:
I agree. Green should have been sacked 10 years ago, when it first came out that he looked at frankie on his work's computer, not now because an ex copper kept hold of evidence that he should have destroyed.RobD said:
Why he lied it about it I do not know, he had to know it would come out after the investigation started.
Why do we need one at all?williamglenn said:
She'll probably appoint Gavin Williamson...TheScreamingEagles said:Hopefully she'll appoint Jeremy Hunt as First Secretary of State.
Misleading statements.TGOHF said:What has he resigned for ?
0 -
Principles are for those not in government!The_Taxman said:I see Green has resigned to spend more time on porn sites........
Now then what about Davis! He should surely resign as well as he has a record of resigning on points of principle. Indeed he triggered a by election some years ago on a point of principle. For all we know given how poorly he is negotiating he may want to quit anyway?0 -
@bbcnickrobinson: Theresa May is clearly feeling strong enough to sack* her deputy. Damian Green didn’t want to go, he didn’t plan to go & many at top of govt thought he was safe. (*Officially he was “asked to resign” for issuing misleading statements)0
-
@michaelsavage: Sorry to bring it up, but are there Brexit implications after Green’s departure? Leaver told me last week they were keen for him to stay to bind him in to government position.0
-
He didn't lie (or it's unproven) - he maintains his denial. What he omitted was that police lawyers contacted his lawyers about it in 2008 - not full disclosure and therefore misleadingPeter_the_Punter said:So he has turned out to be a lying dratsab after all. Who'd have thunk it.
-1 -
As Nixon found lying to cover something up is far worse than the original alleged offence.TheScreamingEagles said:
For making Kate Maltby uncomfortable and lying about it by the looks of it.TGOHF said:What has he resigned for ?
0 -
-
What kind of "strength" is involved in sacking your own close ally? Couldn't she have just endorsed him now and waited for everyone to forget about it in the New Year?Scott_P said:@bbcnickrobinson: Theresa May is clearly feeling strong enough to sack* her deputy. Damian Green didn’t want to go, he didn’t plan to go & many at top of govt thought he was safe. (*Officially he was “asked to resign” for issuing misleading statements)
0 -
File it under usual DD bullshit.Scott_P said:0 -
Off Topic:
Watching the Trump tax cut pass the House of Representatives, I noticed the Roman fasces carved in the wall behind the speaker. I hadn't noticed it before.0 -
At least someone in the Government is not a lunatic.Scott_P said:0 -
You can do both at the same time.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No - she is doing the right thingTheScreamingEagles said:The sleazy old Oxonian lech wanted to hang on and was pushed out by Mrs May?
Mrs May is creating needless enemies.0 -
Did you mean 'faces' or 'faeces'?foxinsoxuk said:Off Topic:
Watching the Trump tax cut pass the House of Representatives, I noticed the Roman fasces carved in the wall behind the speaker. I hadn't noticed it before.0 -
As an emblem of republicanism. You can find them all over the place here if you look carefully: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces#Examples_of_US_fasces_iconographyfoxinsoxuk said:Off Topic:
Watching the Trump tax cut pass the House of Representatives, I noticed the Roman fasces carved in the wall behind the speaker. I hadn't noticed it before.0 -
Of course not, he remains May's likeliest successor and still has phase 2 of the Brexit talks to do.Scott_P said:0 -
@BethRigby: May has lost three cabinet ministers - Green, Fallon, Patel - in seven weeks. Just few weeks back, consensus was she’d be loathed to let Green go, but #Brexit breakthrough has made her stronger than she’s been since election0
-
Watching the Trump tax cuts pass, I wondered why the hell our supposed "nasty" Conservative Government isn't offering us the same, ramming it down Labour's throats and daring them to oppose it. Do they have no vision, no ability to plan, to position themselves politically, to undermine their opponents? Are we in Government purely for the masochistic joy of daily humiliation and daily impotence?foxinsoxuk said:Off Topic:
Watching the Trump tax cut pass the House of Representatives, I noticed the Roman fasces carved in the wall behind the speaker. I hadn't noticed it before.
Yeah, I didn't choose the name "blueblue" for nothing!0 -
Well we are now successfully through phase 1The_Taxman said:I see Green has resigned to spend more time on porn sites........
Now then what about Davis! He should surely resign as well as he has a record of resigning on points of principle. Indeed he triggered a by election some years ago on a point of principle. For all we know given how poorly he is negotiating he may want to quit anyway?0 -
He’s all fart and no follow through.Scott_P said:0 -
Loving how some on here want the brexit secretary to resign - lol
Remain David.0 -
You can't endorse a minister found to have broken the ministerial code. Had he been more careful in his statements he probably would have hung on given the considerable sympathy for him on the backbenches regarding the behaviour of the police.blueblue said:
What kind of "strength" is involved in sacking your own close ally? Couldn't she have just endorsed him now and waited for everyone to forget about it in the New Year?Scott_P said:@bbcnickrobinson: Theresa May is clearly feeling strong enough to sack* her deputy. Damian Green didn’t want to go, he didn’t plan to go & many at top of govt thought he was safe. (*Officially he was “asked to resign” for issuing misleading statements)
0 -
In answer, No and No. They are too weak in number and divided to have vision or a plan.blueblue said:
Watching the Trump tax cuts pass, I wondered why the hell our supposed "nasty" Conservative Government isn't offering us the same, ramming it down Labour's throats and daring them to oppose it. Do they have no vision, no ability to plan, to position themselves politically, to undermine their opponents? Are we in Government purely for the masochistic joy of daily humiliation and daily impotence?foxinsoxuk said:Off Topic:
Watching the Trump tax cut pass the House of Representatives, I noticed the Roman fasces carved in the wall behind the speaker. I hadn't noticed it before.
0 -
I am more than a little concerned that we have fallen into a trap of allowing civil servants to adjudicate on the behaviour of elected politicians. We have a code of conduct drafted by the civil service being enforced by the civil service. Surely the behaviour of Ministers should only be a matter for the Cabinet and Parliament?
I am no fan of Green at all, but resigning for trivial ‘misleading statements’ whilst subject to Police misconduct because an unelected civil servant acts as judge and jury does not seem a good precedent.0 -
Possibly. It makes his statements more baffling in that regard.dodrade said:
You can't endorse a minister found to have broken the ministerial code. Had he been more careful in his statements he probably would have hung on given the considerable sympathy for him on the backbenches regarding the behaviour of the police.blueblue said:
What kind of "strength" is involved in sacking your own close ally? Couldn't she have just endorsed him now and waited for everyone to forget about it in the New Year?Scott_P said:@bbcnickrobinson: Theresa May is clearly feeling strong enough to sack* her deputy. Damian Green didn’t want to go, he didn’t plan to go & many at top of govt thought he was safe. (*Officially he was “asked to resign” for issuing misleading statements)
0 -
He did under Dave,so your wrong.TheScreamingEagles said:
He’s all fart and no follow through.Scott_P said:0 -
He was not on record anywhere as having said he would resign if Green went, that was just Osborne's Evening Standard stirring. Even what he was reported to have said is about concerns over Green having to resign over events 10 years ago when it seems to be more about misleading statements made by Green.TheScreamingEagles said:
He’s all fart and no follow through.Scott_P said:0 -
Which achieved bugger all.Tykejohnno said:
He did under Dave,so your wrong.TheScreamingEagles said:
He’s all fart and no follow through.Scott_P said:0 -
In NOT resigning on a point of principle this undermined Davis in the Brexit negotiations. It makes Davis seem nefarious, a quality I believe prevented Boris Johnson from being the Sec. of State for Brexit and instead he was installed as FS.0
-
But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?TheScreamingEagles said:
He’s all fart and no follow through.Scott_P said:0 -
Well of course for local politicians that was to essentially be removed with the Localism Act, but IIRC the Lords inserted some form of standards regime back in at the last minute, so we have ended up with a totally ineffective regime, which is still hated by those subject to it for the reason you give even though the level of sanction is laughable.archer101au said:I am more than a little concerned that we have fallen into a trap of allowing civil servants to adjudicate on the behaviour of elected politicians.
As for higher up, I don't think it entirely unreasonable to promise to uphold basic standards of conduct in public life. It's not as though Green is obliged to resign or May obliged to sack him for any such misbehaviour, and if either wanted to state that despite it he could do his job, they could attempt it. Sure, political opponents would make hay with it, but others would judge things on their merits if remaining were reasonable despite some level of misbehaviour, particularly if eclipsed by the misbehaviour of others.
0 -
And the plan they promised was to help the struggling, not the already well off.kle4 said:
In answer, No and No. They are too weak in number and divided to have vision or a plan.blueblue said:
Watching the Trump tax cuts pass, I wondered why the hell our supposed "nasty" Conservative Government isn't offering us the same, ramming it down Labour's throats and daring them to oppose it. Do they have no vision, no ability to plan, to position themselves politically, to undermine their opponents? Are we in Government purely for the masochistic joy of daily humiliation and daily impotence?foxinsoxuk said:Off Topic:
Watching the Trump tax cut pass the House of Representatives, I noticed the Roman fasces carved in the wall behind the speaker. I hadn't noticed it before.
0 -
Slightly surprised that incomplete statements lead to a sacking, but there we are.
What this shows is that
i) May now feels in a stronger position and
ii) that she's prepared to sack her oldest friend - so no one is safe.
Pour encourager les autres......0 -
3 nil to the EU in the first half.HYUFD said:
Well we are now successfully through phase 1The_Taxman said:I see Green has resigned to spend more time on porn sites........
Now then what about Davis! He should surely resign as well as he has a record of resigning on points of principle. Indeed he triggered a by election some years ago on a point of principle. For all we know given how poorly he is negotiating he may want to quit anyway?
The good thing about DD doing the negotiating is that the Brexiteers will have to own the deal.0 -
Is the PM doing a proper reshuffle?
Would make sense to do it now.0 -
Hmmmmmm.
0 -
Oh please, that is a stretch. Leaving aside the argument we sometimes see that nothing we do is really effecting the negotiations and it will be as the EU wills is regardless, whatever some of them might say in public or suggest in leaks to journalists, I find it hard to believe professional politicians and negotiators will find something meaningful to hang over an opponent because they have taken a limp wristed stance on something entirely unrelated. As an example every time there's an election campaign in Europe there will be grandiose promises which will not always be followed through, some will not even occur at all, and that doesn't mean said PM would find themselves undermined when meeting with fellow EU leaders for being nefarious. That's just politics, as is being a bit of a bullshitter.The_Taxman said:In NOT resigning on a point of principle this undermined Davis in the Brexit negotiations. It makes Davis seem nefarious, a quality I believe prevented Boris Johnson from being the Sec. of State for Brexit and instead he was installed as FS.
0 -
The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.rkrkrk said:
But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?TheScreamingEagles said:
He’s all fart and no follow through.Scott_P said:0 -
LOL!TheScreamingEagles said:
This might touch he nerve of some of the right-wing fruitcakes on here but our genial host is so right! DD is the very definition of a tool!0 -
To spend more time with his porn sites?TGOHF said:What has he resigned for ?
0 -
Not so - tools are occasionally useful.murali_s said:
LOL!TheScreamingEagles said:
This might touch he nerve of some of the right-wing fruitcakes on here but our genial host is so right! DD is the very definition of a tool!0
