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SystemSystem Posts: 12,257
edited December 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Damian Green resigns

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Comments

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,287
    First!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,135
    Second, like police integrity.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    edited December 2017
    not second, but third.
    https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/943583664486649858
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/943583664486649858
  • Independent_ColinIndependent_Colin Posts: 54
    Damn! I so nearly placed a bet on next out from cabinet but I chickened out.

    Soooooo...... who's next out?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,820
    Will Davis follow through on his threat?

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,374
    Didn't DD deny that he would follow Green out the door???
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @bbclaurak: 1. Kate Maltby's family have released a statement - 'We are not surprised to find that the inquiry found Mr Green to have been untruthful as a minister, nor to that they found our daughter to be a plausible witness.' - they say she won't make further comment tonight
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    The sleazy old Oxonian lech wanted to hang on and was pushed out by Mrs May?

    Mrs May is creating needless enemies.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,746
    williamglenn said:

    Will Davis follow through on his threat?

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over

    He might be looking for an excuse. And who could blame him?
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    What the fuck for?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    Hopefully she'll appoint Jeremy Hunt as First Secretary of State.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    https://twitter.com/ashcowburn/status/943582229929881600

    Sacked see last paragraph text of letter or asked to resign.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/jgforsyth/status/943585121269100545
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,135
    williamglenn said:

    Will Davis follow through on his threat?

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over

    Didn’t Green resign?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    blueblue said:

    What the fuck for?

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/943582846949691397
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,072
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    The sleazy old Oxonian lech wanted to hang on and was pushed out by Mrs May?

    Mrs May is creating needless enemies.

    No - she is doing the right thing
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,317
    SandyRentool said:

    Didn't DD deny that he would follow Green out the door???

    Green resigned, so I guess he won't have to have a useless by-election.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,820
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Hopefully she'll appoint Jeremy Hunt as First Secretary of State.

    She'll probably appoint Gavin Williamson...
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,496
    So he has turned out to be a lying dratsab after all. Who'd have thunk it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    edited December 2017
    TwistedFireStopper said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/943581487252811779

    Message to all policeman - you should hold on to personal copies of police material to leak years later to the media to settle a grudge.

    I guess the outcome was that he misled people in his previous categorical denial, if this is the result though.
    Yeah, this stinks.
    I agree. Green should have been sacked 10 years ago, when it first came out that he looked at frankie on his work's computer, not now because an ex copper kept hold of evidence that he should have destroyed.
    Looking at porn on a work computer is not right (albeit MPs cannot be sacked, as they are accountable to their electorates), but that is the problem for me is the former policeman have acted worse than what Green presumably did (it says he made misleading statements, so presumably his categorical denials were false). Police now have every reason to gather all sorts of notes irrelevant to investigations, keep personal copies and then leak it. If there was nothing illegal in what he did but it was right for the police to report the breach of IT policy (if there was one at the time) to the parliamentary authorities to take some sort of action at the time, fine, but this tells police no need, just hold it back for the papers. It distracts from more serious allegations and concerns, unfortunately.

    Why he lied it about it I do not know, he had to know it would come out after the investigation started.
    williamglenn said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Hopefully she'll appoint Jeremy Hunt as First Secretary of State.

    She'll probably appoint Gavin Williamson...
    Why do we need one at all?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,374
    williamglenn said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Hopefully she'll appoint Jeremy Hunt as First Secretary of State.

    She'll probably appoint Gavin Williamson...
    You mean Gavin Williamson will appoint Gavin Williamson.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,603
    Looks to be two statements made by Green on 4th and 11th November which were misleading which was key and fact he made Ms Maltby feel uncomfortable. Anyway at least this resignation hopefully nips the issue in the bud.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited December 2017
    Hmph, seems rather excessive.

    That said, even aside from this whole episode, his job seemed to be a bit pointless. What actually IS a "First Secretary of State"?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    Polite, almost friendly, but quite damning letter. I wonder if he was given the option to "choose to resign".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,603
    edited December 2017
    williamglenn said:

    Will Davis follow through on his threat?

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over

    Has Davis ever said on record he would resign if Green was sacked? No. In any case this resignation only occurred after an inquiry not on a whim.
  • TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    Will Davis follow through on his threat?

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over

    Didn’t Green resign?
    "Asked to resign". It could get very messy now.
  • houndtanghoundtang Posts: 450
    Three separate cabinet resignations in about seven weeks - is that a record?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,072
    HYUFD said:

    Looks to be two statements made by Green on 4th and 11th November which were misleading which was key and fact he made Ms Maltby feel uncomfortable. Anyway at least this resignation hopefully nips the issue in the bud.

    That is it apparently but the PM appears to be queasy about the police leaks
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,374
    MaxPB said:

    SandyRentool said:

    Didn't DD deny that he would follow Green out the door???

    Green resigned, so I guess he won't have to have a useless by-election.
    Apparently May asked Simon Brodkin to hand Green his P45.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    So much my plans for a quiet, PB free Christmas.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,072
    TwistedFireStopper said:

    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    Will Davis follow through on his threat?

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over

    Didn’t Green resign?
    "Asked to resign". It could get very messy now.
    Why
  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    Looking at his resignation letter, it seems that the issue is that he did not properly disclose that the pornography allegations were raised with him at the time of the initial police enquiry in 2008. So, he has misled people.

    It all strikes me as very weak. This was never a crime, and the policeinvolved have basically ruined his career.

    Are the government actually in control?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    https://twitter.com/donaeldunready/status/943584718460805120
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    houndtang said:

    Three separate cabinet resignations in about seven weeks - is that a record?

    No.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    NickPalmer said:

    Polite, almost friendly, but quite damning letter. I wonder if he was given the option to "choose to resign".

    Handed the revolver and whisky.

    I don't like to see people sacked.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/943586327127261184
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,603
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    The sleazy old Oxonian lech wanted to hang on and was pushed out by Mrs May?

    Mrs May is creating needless enemies.

    Green was a former Davis supporter and will now be in the Davis column for the next leadership election certainly but I expect him to lie low until the end of May's term as leader.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    houndtang said:

    Three separate cabinet resignations in about seven weeks - is that a record?

    No.
    We had 3 within days around the time of one of the attempted coups against Brown (Jacqui Smith, Hazel Blears, James Purnell).
  • TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TwistedFireStopper said:

    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    Will Davis follow through on his threat?

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over

    Didn’t Green resign?
    "Asked to resign". It could get very messy now.
    Why
    "Asked to resign" is a sacking by any other name. I guess it all depends on if Davis wants to jack it all in.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/davidmapstone/status/943586744171225089
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    Will Davis follow through on his threat?

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over

    Didn’t Green resign?
    As has been long noted the distinction between sacking and resigning is very small in politics. This one seems particularly so, since he was asked to resign according to the letter, not that she had 'accepted his resignation'. What if he didn't agree to resign? Well presumably he'd have been sacked. So other than anyone betting on sacking, and those seeking to avoid following through on a threat around a sacking, there's no real difference.

    I assume such marginal distinctions is why markets talk about 'next to leave' rather than sacking or resigning?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,072
    TwistedFireStopper said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TwistedFireStopper said:

    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    Will Davis follow through on his threat?

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over

    Didn’t Green resign?
    "Asked to resign". It could get very messy now.
    Why
    "Asked to resign" is a sacking by any other name. I guess it all depends on if Davis wants to jack it all in.
    Davis will stay. Green got himself into the mess and left the PM with little choice
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    foxinsoxuk said:

    NickPalmer said:

    Polite, almost friendly, but quite damning letter. I wonder if he was given the option to "choose to resign".

    Handed the revolver and whisky.

    I don't like to see people sacked.
    We used to call them accelerated departures.
  • Independent_ColinIndependent_Colin Posts: 54
    Given how long this has been dragging on for there are 2 salient points:

    1) The PM feels more secure in her position now she has completed Brexit Phase 1.

    2) The PM waits until almost Christmas to bury this story so by the New Year most people will have forgotten all about this.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/davidmapstone/status/943586744171225089

    "Fruit of the poisoned tree" is an American doctrine, not an English one.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,603
    TwistedFireStopper said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TwistedFireStopper said:

    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    Will Davis follow through on his threat?

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over

    Didn’t Green resign?
    "Asked to resign". It could get very messy now.
    Why
    "Asked to resign" is a sacking by any other name. I guess it all depends on if Davis wants to jack it all in.
    He won't unless this resignation created momentum for a no confidence vote in May which is unlikely.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    What has he resigned for ?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    kle4 said:

    TwistedFireStopper said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/943581487252811779

    Message to all policeman - you should hold on to personal copies of police material to leak years later to the media to settle a grudge.

    I guess the outcome was that he misled people in his previous categorical denial, if this is the result though.
    Yeah, this stinks.
    I agree. Green should have been sacked 10 years ago, when it first came out that he looked at frankie on his work's computer, not now because an ex copper kept hold of evidence that he should have destroyed.
    Looking at porn on a work computer is not right (albeit MPs cannot be sacked, as they are accountable to their electorates), but that is the problem for me is the former policeman have acted worse than what Green presumably did (it says he made misleading statements, so presumably his categorical denials were false). Police now have every reason to gather all sorts of notes irrelevant to investigations, keep personal copies and then leak it. If there was nothing illegal in what he did but it was right for the police to report the breach of IT policy (if there was one at the time) to the parliamentary authorities to take some sort of action at the time, fine, but this tells police no need, just hold it back for the papers. It distracts from more serious allegations and concerns, unfortunately.

    Why he lied it about it I do not know, he had to know it would come out after the investigation started.
    williamglenn said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Hopefully she'll appoint Jeremy Hunt as First Secretary of State.

    She'll probably appoint Gavin Williamson...
    Why do we need one at all?
    It is perfectly possible for the former coppers to be investigated. It is very likely both were in the wrong.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    TwistedFireStopper said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TwistedFireStopper said:

    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    Will Davis follow through on his threat?

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/91119/david-davis-threatens-resign-if-damian-green-sacked-over

    Didn’t Green resign?
    "Asked to resign". It could get very messy now.
    Why
    "Asked to resign" is a sacking by any other name. I guess it all depends on if Davis wants to jack it all in.
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/davidmapstone/status/943586744171225089

    While I personally could have been persuaded his original offence was not sack worthy given the means of it being brought to light, that he lied about it it seems would make it doubly hard for May, painfully hard, to make that case given the conflation with other allegations.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,603
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    HYUFD said:

    Looks to be two statements made by Green on 4th and 11th November which were misleading which was key and fact he made Ms Maltby feel uncomfortable. Anyway at least this resignation hopefully nips the issue in the bud.

    That is it apparently but the PM appears to be queasy about the police leaks
    Yes, I think she still has reservations about that
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,287
    HYUFD said:

    Looks to be two statements made by Green on 4th and 11th November which were misleading which was key and fact he made Ms Maltby feel uncomfortable. Anyway at least this resignation hopefully nips the issue in the bud.

    Lol @ "bud"
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    Danny565 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    houndtang said:

    Three separate cabinet resignations in about seven weeks - is that a record?

    No.
    We had 3 within days around the time of one of the attempted coups against Brown (Jacqui Smith, Hazel Blears, James Purnell).
    Well with Jacqui Smith it was more that she was going to stand down but that's the one I was thinking about.

    Those three were a mixture of expenses (Smith and Blears) and a coup (Purnell)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    TGOHF said:

    What has he resigned for ?

    For making Kate Maltby uncomfortable and lying about it by the looks of it.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    I see Green has resigned to spend more time on porn sites........

    Now then what about Davis! He should surely resign as well as he has a record of resigning on points of principle. Indeed he triggered a by election some years ago on a point of principle. For all we know given how poorly he is negotiating he may want to quit anyway?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    edited December 2017
    So Robert Peston was full of shite and The Sunday Times & Nick Robinson were spot on.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    foxinsoxuk said:

    kle4 said:

    TwistedFireStopper said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/943581487252811779

    Message to all policeman - you should hold on to personal copies of police material to leak years later to the media to settle a grudge.

    I guess the outcome was that he misled people in his previous categorical denial, if this is the result though.
    Yeah, this stinks.
    I agree. Green should have been sacked 10 years ago, when it first came out that he looked at frankie on his work's computer, not now because an ex copper kept hold of evidence that he should have destroyed.
    Looking at porn on a work computer is not right (albeit MPs cannot be sacked, as they are accountable to their electorates), but that is the problem for me is the former policeman have acted worse than what Green presumably did (it says he made misleading statements, so presumably his categorical denials were false). Police now have every reason to gather all sorts of notes irrelevant to investigations, keep personal copies and then leak it. If there was nothing illegal in what he did but it was right for the police to report the breach of IT policy (if there was one at the time) to the parliamentary authorities to take some sort of action at the time, fine, but this tells police no need, just hold it back for the papers. It distracts from more serious allegations and concerns, unfortunately.

    Why he lied it about it I do not know, he had to know it would come out after the investigation started.
    williamglenn said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Hopefully she'll appoint Jeremy Hunt as First Secretary of State.

    She'll probably appoint Gavin Williamson...
    Why do we need one at all?
    It is perfectly possible for the former coppers to be investigated. It is very likely both were in the wrong.
    And I hope damn well that they are.
    TGOHF said:

    What has he resigned for ?

    Misleading statements.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @bbcnickrobinson: Theresa May is clearly feeling strong enough to sack* her deputy. Damian Green didn’t want to go, he didn’t plan to go & many at top of govt thought he was safe. (*Officially he was “asked to resign” for issuing misleading statements)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    The_Taxman said:

    I see Green has resigned to spend more time on porn sites........

    Now then what about Davis! He should surely resign as well as he has a record of resigning on points of principle. Indeed he triggered a by election some years ago on a point of principle. For all we know given how poorly he is negotiating he may want to quit anyway?

    Principles are for those not in government!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @michaelsavage: Sorry to bring it up, but are there Brexit implications after Green’s departure? Leaver told me last week they were keen for him to stay to bind him in to government position.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Peter_the_Punter said:

    So he has turned out to be a lying dratsab after all. Who'd have thunk it.

    He didn't lie (or it's unproven) - he maintains his denial. What he omitted was that police lawyers contacted his lawyers about it in 2008 - not full disclosure and therefore misleading
  • Independent_ColinIndependent_Colin Posts: 54
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TGOHF said:

    What has he resigned for ?

    For making Kate Maltby uncomfortable and lying about it by the looks of it.
    As Nixon found lying to cover something up is far worse than the original alleged offence.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/943588741368745984
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    Scott_P said:

    @bbcnickrobinson: Theresa May is clearly feeling strong enough to sack* her deputy. Damian Green didn’t want to go, he didn’t plan to go & many at top of govt thought he was safe. (*Officially he was “asked to resign” for issuing misleading statements)

    What kind of "strength" is involved in sacking your own close ally? Couldn't she have just endorsed him now and waited for everyone to forget about it in the New Year?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,759
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/943588741368745984

    File it under usual DD bullshit.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Off Topic:

    Watching the Trump tax cut pass the House of Representatives, I noticed the Roman fasces carved in the wall behind the speaker. I hadn't noticed it before.
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/943588741368745984

    At least someone in the Government is not a lunatic.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/943588741368745984

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/943588741368745984

    How does one 'not resign' in protest? An odd form of protest. 'In protest at this disgraceful action, I am going to...do nothing'.

    (Yes, I know what it means)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    blueblue said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/943588741368745984

    At least someone in the Government is not a lunatic.
    Too lazy to resign :)
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    The sleazy old Oxonian lech wanted to hang on and was pushed out by Mrs May?

    Mrs May is creating needless enemies.

    No - she is doing the right thing
    You can do both at the same time.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited December 2017
    foxinsoxuk said:

    Off Topic:

    Watching the Trump tax cut pass the House of Representatives, I noticed the Roman fasces carved in the wall behind the speaker. I hadn't noticed it before.

    Did you mean 'faces' or 'faeces'?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    foxinsoxuk said:

    Off Topic:

    Watching the Trump tax cut pass the House of Representatives, I noticed the Roman fasces carved in the wall behind the speaker. I hadn't noticed it before.

    As an emblem of republicanism. You can find them all over the place here if you look carefully: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces#Examples_of_US_fasces_iconography
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,603
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/943588741368745984

    Of course not, he remains May's likeliest successor and still has phase 2 of the Brexit talks to do.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BethRigby: May has lost three cabinet ministers - Green, Fallon, Patel - in seven weeks. Just few weeks back, consensus was she’d be loathed to let Green go, but #Brexit breakthrough has made her stronger than she’s been since election
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    foxinsoxuk said:

    Off Topic:

    Watching the Trump tax cut pass the House of Representatives, I noticed the Roman fasces carved in the wall behind the speaker. I hadn't noticed it before.

    Watching the Trump tax cuts pass, I wondered why the hell our supposed "nasty" Conservative Government isn't offering us the same, ramming it down Labour's throats and daring them to oppose it. Do they have no vision, no ability to plan, to position themselves politically, to undermine their opponents? Are we in Government purely for the masochistic joy of daily humiliation and daily impotence?

    Yeah, I didn't choose the name "blueblue" for nothing!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,603
    The_Taxman said:

    I see Green has resigned to spend more time on porn sites........

    Now then what about Davis! He should surely resign as well as he has a record of resigning on points of principle. Indeed he triggered a by election some years ago on a point of principle. For all we know given how poorly he is negotiating he may want to quit anyway?

    Well we are now successfully through phase 1
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/943588741368745984

    He’s all fart and no follow through.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Loving how some on here want the brexit secretary to resign - lol

    Remain David.
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597
    blueblue said:

    Scott_P said:

    @bbcnickrobinson: Theresa May is clearly feeling strong enough to sack* her deputy. Damian Green didn’t want to go, he didn’t plan to go & many at top of govt thought he was safe. (*Officially he was “asked to resign” for issuing misleading statements)

    What kind of "strength" is involved in sacking your own close ally? Couldn't she have just endorsed him now and waited for everyone to forget about it in the New Year?
    You can't endorse a minister found to have broken the ministerial code. Had he been more careful in his statements he probably would have hung on given the considerable sympathy for him on the backbenches regarding the behaviour of the police.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    blueblue said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Off Topic:

    Watching the Trump tax cut pass the House of Representatives, I noticed the Roman fasces carved in the wall behind the speaker. I hadn't noticed it before.

    Watching the Trump tax cuts pass, I wondered why the hell our supposed "nasty" Conservative Government isn't offering us the same, ramming it down Labour's throats and daring them to oppose it. Do they have no vision, no ability to plan, to position themselves politically, to undermine their opponents? Are we in Government purely for the masochistic joy of daily humiliation and daily impotence?

    In answer, No and No. They are too weak in number and divided to have vision or a plan.
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612
    I am more than a little concerned that we have fallen into a trap of allowing civil servants to adjudicate on the behaviour of elected politicians. We have a code of conduct drafted by the civil service being enforced by the civil service. Surely the behaviour of Ministers should only be a matter for the Cabinet and Parliament?

    I am no fan of Green at all, but resigning for trivial ‘misleading statements’ whilst subject to Police misconduct because an unelected civil servant acts as judge and jury does not seem a good precedent.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    dodrade said:

    blueblue said:

    Scott_P said:

    @bbcnickrobinson: Theresa May is clearly feeling strong enough to sack* her deputy. Damian Green didn’t want to go, he didn’t plan to go & many at top of govt thought he was safe. (*Officially he was “asked to resign” for issuing misleading statements)

    What kind of "strength" is involved in sacking your own close ally? Couldn't she have just endorsed him now and waited for everyone to forget about it in the New Year?
    You can't endorse a minister found to have broken the ministerial code. Had he been more careful in his statements he probably would have hung on given the considerable sympathy for him on the backbenches regarding the behaviour of the police.

    Possibly. It makes his statements more baffling in that regard.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/943588741368745984

    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    He did under Dave,so your wrong.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,603
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/943588741368745984

    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    He was not on record anywhere as having said he would resign if Green went, that was just Osborne's Evening Standard stirring. Even what he was reported to have said is about concerns over Green having to resign over events 10 years ago when it seems to be more about misleading statements made by Green.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    Tykejohnno said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/943588741368745984

    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    He did under Dave,so your wrong.
    Which achieved bugger all.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    In NOT resigning on a point of principle this undermined Davis in the Brexit negotiations. It makes Davis seem nefarious, a quality I believe prevented Boris Johnson from being the Sec. of State for Brexit and instead he was installed as FS.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,406
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/943588741368745984

    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    archer101au said:

    I am more than a little concerned that we have fallen into a trap of allowing civil servants to adjudicate on the behaviour of elected politicians.

    Well of course for local politicians that was to essentially be removed with the Localism Act, but IIRC the Lords inserted some form of standards regime back in at the last minute, so we have ended up with a totally ineffective regime, which is still hated by those subject to it for the reason you give even though the level of sanction is laughable.

    As for higher up, I don't think it entirely unreasonable to promise to uphold basic standards of conduct in public life. It's not as though Green is obliged to resign or May obliged to sack him for any such misbehaviour, and if either wanted to state that despite it he could do his job, they could attempt it. Sure, political opponents would make hay with it, but others would judge things on their merits if remaining were reasonable despite some level of misbehaviour, particularly if eclipsed by the misbehaviour of others.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,287
    kle4 said:

    blueblue said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Off Topic:

    Watching the Trump tax cut pass the House of Representatives, I noticed the Roman fasces carved in the wall behind the speaker. I hadn't noticed it before.

    Watching the Trump tax cuts pass, I wondered why the hell our supposed "nasty" Conservative Government isn't offering us the same, ramming it down Labour's throats and daring them to oppose it. Do they have no vision, no ability to plan, to position themselves politically, to undermine their opponents? Are we in Government purely for the masochistic joy of daily humiliation and daily impotence?

    In answer, No and No. They are too weak in number and divided to have vision or a plan.
    And the plan they promised was to help the struggling, not the already well off.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Slightly surprised that incomplete statements lead to a sacking, but there we are.

    What this shows is that
    i) May now feels in a stronger position and
    ii) that she's prepared to sack her oldest friend - so no one is safe.

    Pour encourager les autres......
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    HYUFD said:

    The_Taxman said:

    I see Green has resigned to spend more time on porn sites........

    Now then what about Davis! He should surely resign as well as he has a record of resigning on points of principle. Indeed he triggered a by election some years ago on a point of principle. For all we know given how poorly he is negotiating he may want to quit anyway?

    Well we are now successfully through phase 1
    3 nil to the EU in the first half.

    The good thing about DD doing the negotiating is that the Brexiteers will have to own the deal.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Is the PM doing a proper reshuffle?

    Would make sense to do it now.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Hmmmmmm.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/943592002779787264
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    edited December 2017
    The_Taxman said:

    In NOT resigning on a point of principle this undermined Davis in the Brexit negotiations. It makes Davis seem nefarious, a quality I believe prevented Boris Johnson from being the Sec. of State for Brexit and instead he was installed as FS.

    Oh please, that is a stretch. Leaving aside the argument we sometimes see that nothing we do is really effecting the negotiations and it will be as the EU wills is regardless, whatever some of them might say in public or suggest in leaks to journalists, I find it hard to believe professional politicians and negotiators will find something meaningful to hang over an opponent because they have taken a limp wristed stance on something entirely unrelated. As an example every time there's an election campaign in Europe there will be grandiose promises which will not always be followed through, some will not even occur at all, and that doesn't mean said PM would find themselves undermined when meeting with fellow EU leaders for being nefarious. That's just politics, as is being a bit of a bullshitter.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    rkrkrk said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/943588741368745984

    He’s all fart and no follow through.
    But how would the country manage without it’s part-time Brexit secretary?
    The country may well manage a lot better in negotiations as we are currently being buggered over a beer barrel in the current context. It really shows how ridiculous things have become that the PM is judged by some to be in a strengthened position when she and her team have capitulated to the EU and got NOTHING in return.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/943592002779787264

    LOL!

    This might touch he nerve of some of the right-wing fruitcakes on here but our genial host is so right! DD is the very definition of a tool!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761
    TGOHF said:

    What has he resigned for ?

    To spend more time with his porn sites?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,820
    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/943594301120040960
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    murali_s said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/943592002779787264

    LOL!

    This might touch he nerve of some of the right-wing fruitcakes on here but our genial host is so right! DD is the very definition of a tool!
    Not so - tools are occasionally useful.
This discussion has been closed.