politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The first poll of November finds a tad of comfort for Mrs. May
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The Bradby tweets are really interesting. Rafael Behr says EU leaders are actually hardening away from giving us a 2nd chance. Bradby thinks only Macron and Merkel matter. Brown is talking to both potentially (probably just because Blair is as well :-) )0
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"Give us your money or else!" - EU negotiating position.Tissue_Price said:
I think people will only change their minds if the EU change their position. Expecting the UK to go "Oh this is all too difficult" is utterly unrealistic (not least because the EU's approach to the negotiation is part of what is making it difficult).rkrkrk said:
I think it highly unlikely the EU would make such an offer.Tissue_Price said:
And that is exactly what @tombradby is currently speculating on.Tissue_Price said:
Though if the EU put genuine control of FoM on the table (not "emergency brakes" etc.) in a "stay" offer I wouldn't care to speculate as to how that would play out.
I think we are collectively too proud as a nation to change our minds. It would be quite ironic if the EU gave us an offer that would have won the original referendum but was insufficient to change our position given the result.
It's very hard for them to agree to anything - and that would be undermining one of the four freedoms.
I think it very likely that there will be a reconsider campaign.
But they will only be successful in getting a vote, if large numbers of people have changed their minds.0 -
Dear god man, get a grip.Big_G_NorthWales said:I am not surprised TM has seen a modest improvement and am also pleased that I am not the only one wanting her to get on with the job, an accusation I have been on the receiving end a few times.
TM has announced the leaving date at 11.00pm on the 29th March 2019 and the remain cause has gone into overdrive aided and abetted by a broadcast media that is wholly committed to the cause of stopping Brexit.
Adam Boulton this morning has, with his usual smirk, rolled out in grave tone Lord Kerr’s accusation that TM is ignoring the ability to renege on A50, they have a report by that other Sky doom and gloom merchant Ed Conway from Europe saying how bad things are going to be with business, and of course that arch Europhile, Mark Stone reporting from the European Parliament on the lack of progress in talks. And that is without involving the most biased of them all Faisal Islam. What has happened to Sky News that they never attack the EU over their handling of the negotiations and their inability to act even handed.
I watch Sky News most of the time but recently they have moved to the left and become the broadcast media for Juncker’s et al and it must be grating with a lot of voters who just want to get on with it. It would be ironic if Murdoch does close Sky News down though I would not want that to happen.
I do wonder what will happen if this broadside of pro EU, reverse the decision, group manage to derail Brexit. The likely outcome will not be pretty, especially for those elite who have colluded both here and with the EU to thwart the democratic vote.0 -
You're surely right that the public don't care about legal/negotiating difficulties.Tissue_Price said:
I think people will only change their minds if the EU change their position. Expecting the UK to go "Oh this is all too difficult" is utterly unrealistic (not least because the EU's approach to the negotiation is part of what is making it difficult).rkrkrk said:
I think it highly unlikely the EU would make such an offer.Tissue_Price said:
And that is exactly what @tombradby is currently speculating on.Tissue_Price said:
Though if the EU put genuine control of FoM on the table (not "emergency brakes" etc.) in a "stay" offer I wouldn't care to speculate as to how that would play out.
I think we are collectively too proud as a nation to change our minds. It would be quite ironic if the EU gave us an offer that would have won the original referendum but was insufficient to change our position given the result.
It's very hard for them to agree to anything - and that would be undermining one of the four freedoms.
I think it very likely that there will be a reconsider campaign.
But they will only be successful in getting a vote, if large numbers of people have changed their minds.
But I don't think the EU is either capable of or willing to change their position significantly.
If the economic pain that Remain warned about comes to pass - then I would expect people to change their minds. But if that happens, it's likely to be after Brexit.0 -
EU27 looking after their interests and not the UK's interests in Brexit talks?Tissue_Price said:
Colour me surprised. Who could possibly have anticipated that?
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People will only wake up to what we are losing once we have left the club.rkrkrk said:
You're surely right that the public don't care about legal/negotiating difficulties.Tissue_Price said:
I think people will only change their minds if the EU change their position. Expecting the UK to go "Oh this is all too difficult" is utterly unrealistic (not least because the EU's approach to the negotiation is part of what is making it difficult).rkrkrk said:
I think it highly unlikely the EU would make such an offer.Tissue_Price said:
And that is exactly what @tombradby is currently speculating on.Tissue_Price said:
Though if the EU put genuine control of FoM on the table (not "emergency brakes" etc.) in a "stay" offer I wouldn't care to speculate as to how that would play out.
I think we are collectively too proud as a nation to change our minds. It would be quite ironic if the EU gave us an offer that would have won the original referendum but was insufficient to change our position given the result.
It's very hard for them to agree to anything - and that would be undermining one of the four freedoms.
I think it very likely that there will be a reconsider campaign.
But they will only be successful in getting a vote, if large numbers of people have changed their minds.
But I don't think the EU is either capable of or willing to change their position significantly.
If the economic pain that Remain warned about comes to pass - then I would expect people to change their minds. But if that happens, it's likely to be after Brexit.
Then the campaign to rejoin can gather strength. It will take a decade or longer before we are back in.0 -
You may not like it but that is my viewTOPPING said:
Dear god man, get a grip.Big_G_NorthWales said:I am not surprised TM has seen a modest improvement and am also pleased that I am not the only one wanting her to get on with the job, an accusation I have been on the receiving end a few times.
TM has announced the leaving date at 11.00pm on the 29th March 2019 and the remain cause has gone into overdrive aided and abetted by a broadcast media that is wholly committed to the cause of stopping Brexit.
Adam Boulton this morning has, with his usual smirk, rolled out in grave tone Lord Kerr’s accusation that TM is ignoring the ability to renege on A50, they have a report by that other Sky doom and gloom merchant Ed Conway from Europe saying how bad things are going to be with business, and of course that arch Europhile, Mark Stone reporting from the European Parliament on the lack of progress in talks. And that is without involving the most biased of them all Faisal Islam. What has happened to Sky News that they never attack the EU over their handling of the negotiations and their inability to act even handed.
I watch Sky News most of the time but recently they have moved to the left and become the broadcast media for Juncker’s et al and it must be grating with a lot of voters who just want to get on with it. It would be ironic if Murdoch does close Sky News down though I would not want that to happen.
I do wonder what will happen if this broadside of pro EU, reverse the decision, group manage to derail Brexit. The likely outcome will not be pretty, especially for those elite who have colluded both here and with the EU to thwart the democratic vote.0 -
I, too, am appalled and disgusted that the news is not being reported in the way that you would like it to be reported. This clearly shows that the news is biased, not that you are.Big_G_NorthWales said:I am not surprised TM has seen a modest improvement and am also pleased that I am not the only one wanting her to get on with the job, an accusation I have been on the receiving end a few times.
TM has announced the leaving date at 11.00pm on the 29th March 2019 and the remain cause has gone into overdrive aided and abetted by a broadcast media that is wholly committed to the cause of stopping Brexit.
Adam Boulton this morning has, with his usual smirk, rolled out in grave tone Lord Kerr’s accusation that TM is ignoring the ability to renege on A50, they have a report by that other Sky doom and gloom merchant Ed Conway from Europe saying how bad things are going to be with business, and of course that arch Europhile, Mark Stone reporting from the European Parliament on the lack of progress in talks. And that is without involving the most biased of them all Faisal Islam. What has happened to Sky News that they never attack the EU over their handling of the negotiations and their inability to act even handed.
I watch Sky News most of the time but recently they have moved to the left and become the broadcast media for Juncker’s et al and it must be grating with a lot of voters who just want to get on with it. It would be ironic if Murdoch does close Sky News down though I would not want that to happen.
I do wonder what will happen if this broadside of pro EU, reverse the decision, group manage to derail Brexit. The likely outcome will not be pretty, especially for those elite who have colluded both here and with the EU to thwart the democratic vote.
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Interesting. Even Leavers recognise that the EU has the stronger hand. Cognitive dissonance may be encountering reality.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
I want news reported even handed and I cannot think of any of the above reporters who are not pro remain and they show itSouthamObserver said:
I, too, am appalled and disgusted that the news is not being reported in the way that you would like it to be reported. This clearly shows that the news is biased, not that you are.Big_G_NorthWales said:I am not surprised TM has seen a modest improvement and am also pleased that I am not the only one wanting her to get on with the job, an accusation I have been on the receiving end a few times.
TM has announced the leaving date at 11.00pm on the 29th March 2019 and the remain cause has gone into overdrive aided and abetted by a broadcast media that is wholly committed to the cause of stopping Brexit.
Adam Boulton this morning has, with his usual smirk, rolled out in grave tone Lord Kerr’s accusation that TM is ignoring the ability to renege on A50, they have a report by that other Sky doom and gloom merchant Ed Conway from Europe saying how bad things are going to be with business, and of course that arch Europhile, Mark Stone reporting from the European Parliament on the lack of progress in talks. And that is without involving the most biased of them all Faisal Islam. What has happened to Sky News that they never attack the EU over their handling of the negotiations and their inability to act even handed.
I watch Sky News most of the time but recently they have moved to the left and become the broadcast media for Juncker’s et al and it must be grating with a lot of voters who just want to get on with it. It would be ironic if Murdoch does close Sky News down though I would not want that to happen.
I do wonder what will happen if this broadside of pro EU, reverse the decision, group manage to derail Brexit. The likely outcome will not be pretty, especially for those elite who have colluded both here and with the EU to thwart the democratic vote.0 -
Seriously? If Merkel - without a majority in her own country still, by the way - and Macron are taking advice from Gordon Brown, never mind Tony Blair, then they are more stupid than anyone thought.rottenborough said:The Bradby tweets are really interesting. Rafael Behr says EU leaders are actually hardening away from giving us a 2nd chance. Bradby thinks only Macron and Merkel matter. Brown is talking to both potentially (probably just because Blair is as well :-) )
Who does Brown influence? The Labour Party - no. Labour MPs - no. Tory Remainer MPs - a bit. The Government - Gordon Who?
The only person Brown has any influence over/connection with anymore is Paul Dacre, and Dacre is not fool enough to drive the Daily Mail down the road of opposing a vote that is supported by probably two thirds of its readers.0 -
I don't like or dislike it; I find it interesting that you should get so het up about the media.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You may not like it but that is my viewTOPPING said:
Dear god man, get a grip.Big_G_NorthWales said:I am not surprised TM has seen a modest improvement and am also pleased that I am not the only one wanting her to get on with the job, an accusation I have been on the receiving end a few times.
TM has announced the leaving date at 11.00pm on the 29th March 2019 and the remain cause has gone into overdrive aided and abetted by a broadcast media that is wholly committed to the cause of stopping Brexit.
Adam Boulton this morning has, with his usual smirk, rolled out in grave tone Lord Kerr’s accusation that TM is ignoring the ability to renege on A50, they have a report by that other Sky doom and gloom merchant Ed Conway from Europe saying how bad things are going to be with business, and of course that arch Europhile, Mark Stone reporting from the European Parliament on the lack of progress in talks. And that is without involving the most biased of them all Faisal Islam. What has happened to Sky News that they never attack the EU over their handling of the negotiations and their inability to act even handed.
I watch Sky News most of the time but recently they have moved to the left and become the broadcast media for Juncker’s et al and it must be grating with a lot of voters who just want to get on with it. It would be ironic if Murdoch does close Sky News down though I would not want that to happen.
I do wonder what will happen if this broadside of pro EU, reverse the decision, group manage to derail Brexit. The likely outcome will not be pretty, especially for those elite who have colluded both here and with the EU to thwart the democratic vote.0 -
I accept the EU have a stronger hand but if they overplay it everyone will losefoxinsoxuk said:
Interesting. Even Leavers recognise that the EU has the stronger hand. Cognitive dissonance may be encountering reality.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
Bradby's tweets sounds like lots of wishful thinking from another member of the Establishment to me.rottenborough said:The Bradby tweets are really interesting. Rafael Behr says EU leaders are actually hardening away from giving us a 2nd chance. Bradby thinks only Macron and Merkel matter. Brown is talking to both potentially (probably just because Blair is as well :-) )
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Who could have anticipated that the EU would be more concerned about the political project than the well-being of their own citizens? Quite.foxinsoxuk said:
EU27 looking after their interests and not the UK's interests in Brexit talks?Tissue_Price said:
Colour me surprised. Who could possibly have anticipated that?0 -
Sky are remain supporting and they should be balancedTOPPING said:
I don't like or dislike it; I find it interesting that you should get so het up about the media.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You may not like it but that is my viewTOPPING said:
Dear god man, get a grip.Big_G_NorthWales said:I am not surprised TM has seen a modest improvement and am also pleased that I am not the only one wanting her to get on with the job, an accusation I have been on the receiving end a few times.
TM has announced the leaving date at 11.00pm on the 29th March 2019 and the remain cause has gone into overdrive aided and abetted by a broadcast media that is wholly committed to the cause of stopping Brexit.
Adam Boulton this morning has, with his usual smirk, rolled out in grave tone Lord Kerr’s accusation that TM is ignoring the ability to renege on A50, they have a report by that other Sky doom and gloom merchant Ed Conway from Europe saying how bad things are going to be with business, and of course that arch Europhile, Mark Stone reporting from the European Parliament on the lack of progress in talks. And that is without involving the most biased of them all Faisal Islam. What has happened to Sky News that they never attack the EU over their handling of the negotiations and their inability to act even handed.
I watch Sky News most of the time but recently they have moved to the left and become the broadcast media for Juncker’s et al and it must be grating with a lot of voters who just want to get on with it. It would be ironic if Murdoch does close Sky News down though I would not want that to happen.
I do wonder what will happen if this broadside of pro EU, reverse the decision, group manage to derail Brexit. The likely outcome will not be pretty, especially for those elite who have colluded both here and with the EU to thwart the democratic vote.0 -
Yep, in the run-up to polling day Champagne Len McCluskey was stating that Corbyn would do well to get 200 seats.Winstanley said:
Which explains why Corbyn supporters were so depressed after the election...HYUFD said:
Corbyn still lost, most of his supporters expected him to win.Winstanley said:
This comment could just as easily have been made eight months ago, refererring to one of Hodges' boring rants then. And it was true - the twitter youths with pro wrestlers for profile pictures called it better than people paid handsomely to be experts on British politics. 'Eat the book' still makes me chuckle.rottenborough said:OllyT said:Mrs May must wake up every morning and thank the lord for Jeremy Corbyn.
How Labour aren't 15 points up right now is a mystery. Given the press she is getting the fact that voters still believe she would make a better PM than Corbyn tells you all you really need to know.
But the Corbynista wont hear of it. They've already started this morning on Hodges timeline, saying things like 'fake polls', when the campaign starts we'll put on 20 points etc etc
Barely anybody expected him to win. Very few of his supporters expected Labour to do as well as they did. The result was a massive surprise, and a welcome one.
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Both of you drawing conclusions about an opinion poll finding about what other people think is a little bit... sketchy.Tissue_Price said:
Who could have anticipated that the EU would be more concerned about the political project than the well-being of their own citizens? Quite.foxinsoxuk said:
EU27 looking after their interests and not the UK's interests in Brexit talks?Tissue_Price said:
Colour me surprised. Who could possibly have anticipated that?
Reality is not just what other people think.0 -
Risking no deal is not looking after their interests. If a deal can be done in any negotiation then there is a range in which terms can be agreed. The relative strength and skill of the sides will determine where on that range the deal ends up. In this case, the EU is pushing so hard that there may not be any range at all in which a deal can be done. Now, you might say that that must, by definition, also be because the UK has red lines preventing any overlap, and that's true. However, I don't think it an unreasonable red line that a foreign Court, enforcing foreign legislation passed by foreign politicians, should not have a general application in the UK (as it would with regard to EU nationals under their proposals).foxinsoxuk said:
EU27 looking after their interests and not the UK's interests in Brexit talks?Tissue_Price said:
Colour me surprised. Who could possibly have anticipated that?0 -
You can see where the other end of that wedge leads, can't you.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sky are remain supporting and they should be balancedTOPPING said:
I don't like or dislike it; I find it interesting that you should get so het up about the media.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You may not like it but that is my viewTOPPING said:
Dear god man, get a grip.Big_G_NorthWales said:I am not surprised TM has seen a modest improvement and am also pleased that I am not the only one wanting her to get on with the job, an accusation I have been on the receiving end a few times.
TM has announced the leaving date at 11.00pm on the 29th March 2019 and the remain cause has gone into overdrive aided and abetted by a broadcast media that is wholly committed to the cause of stopping Brexit.
Adam Boulton this morning has, with his usual smirk, rolled out in grave tone Lord Kerr’s accusation that TM is ignoring the ability to renege on A50, they have a report by that other Sky doom and gloom merchant Ed Conway from Europe saying how bad things are going to be with business, and of course that arch Europhile, Mark Stone reporting from the European Parliament on the lack of progress in talks. And that is without involving the most biased of them all Faisal Islam. What has happened to Sky News that they never attack the EU over their handling of the negotiations and their inability to act even handed.
I watch Sky News most of the time but recently they have moved to the left and become the broadcast media for Juncker’s et al and it must be grating with a lot of voters who just want to get on with it. It would be ironic if Murdoch does close Sky News down though I would not want that to happen.
I do wonder what will happen if this broadside of pro EU, reverse the decision, group manage to derail Brexit. The likely outcome will not be pretty, especially for those elite who have colluded both here and with the EU to thwart the democratic vote.0 -
Of course. They are biased. You are not.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I want news reported even handed and I cannot think of any of the above reporters who are not pro remain and they show itSouthamObserver said:
I, too, am appalled and disgusted that the news is not being reported in the way that you would like it to be reported. This clearly shows that the news is biased, not that you are.Big_G_NorthWales said:I am not surprised TM has seen a modest improvement and am also pleased that I am not the only one wanting her to get on with the job, an accusation I have been on the receiving end a few times.
TM has announced the leaving date at 11.00pm on the 29th March 2019 and the remain cause has gone into overdrive aided and abetted by a broadcast media that is wholly committed to the cause of stopping Brexit.
Adam Boulton this morning has, with his usual smirk, rolled out in grave tone Lord Kerr’s accusation that TM is ignoring the ability to renege on A50, they have a report by that other Sky doom and gloom merchant Ed Conway from Europe saying how bad things are going to be with business, and of course that arch Europhile, Mark Stone reporting from the European Parliament on the lack of progress in talks. And that is without involving the most biased of them all Faisal Islam. What has happened to Sky News that they never attack the EU over their handling of the negotiations and their inability to act even handed.
I watch Sky News most of the time but recently they have moved to the left and become the broadcast media for Juncker’s et al and it must be grating with a lot of voters who just want to get on with it. It would be ironic if Murdoch does close Sky News down though I would not want that to happen.
I do wonder what will happen if this broadside of pro EU, reverse the decision, group manage to derail Brexit. The likely outcome will not be pretty, especially for those elite who have colluded both here and with the EU to thwart the democratic vote.
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True enough. I was just cheekily paraphrasing the good doctor.AlastairMeeks said:
Both of you drawing conclusions about an opinion poll finding about what other people think is a little bit... sketchy.Tissue_Price said:
Who could have anticipated that the EU would be more concerned about the political project than the well-being of their own citizens? Quite.foxinsoxuk said:
EU27 looking after their interests and not the UK's interests in Brexit talks?Tissue_Price said:
Colour me surprised. Who could possibly have anticipated that?
Reality is not just what other people think.
In any case, my point during this thread has been that I fear those who wish us to remain (on both sides) are ignoring political reality. I know you (and @foxinsoxuk) agree about that.0 -
The Crown Prosecution Service is facing embarrassment after admitting it destroyed key emails relating to the WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, who is holed up in Ecuador’s London embassy fighting extradition.
Email exchanges between the CPS and its Swedish counterparts over the high-profile case were deleted after the lawyer at the UK end retired in 2014.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/nov/10/uk-prosecutors-admit-destroying-key-emails-from-julian-assange-case?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other0 -
Remember the EU is club for clapped out, discredited and failed politicians.Baskerville said:
Seriously? If Merkel - without a majority in her own country still, by the way - and Macron are taking advice from Gordon Brown, never mind Tony Blair, then they are more stupid than anyone thought.rottenborough said:The Bradby tweets are really interesting. Rafael Behr says EU leaders are actually hardening away from giving us a 2nd chance. Bradby thinks only Macron and Merkel matter. Brown is talking to both potentially (probably just because Blair is as well :-) )
Who does Brown influence? The Labour Party - no. Labour MPs - no. Tory Remainer MPs - a bit. The Government - Gordon Who?
The only person Brown has any influence over/connection with anymore is Paul Dacre, and Dacre is not fool enough to drive the Daily Mail down the road of opposing a vote that is supported by probably two thirds of its readers.
Our discredited and failed former leaders are determined to keep the show on the road by hook or by crook.0 -
Just made my first foray into the next PM market.
Jacob Rees Mogg at sub 8-1 ?
Really ?!0 -
I've said previously - I think it would be wise for the UK (and for the EU) to try to agree a fast re-entry route of some kind if the UK public changes its mind.foxinsoxuk said:
People will only wake up to what we are losing once we have left the club.rkrkrk said:
You're surely right that the public don't care about legal/negotiating difficulties.Tissue_Price said:
I think people will only change their minds if the EU change their position. Expecting the UK to go "Oh this is all too difficult" is utterly unrealistic (not least because the EU's approach to the negotiation is part of what is making it difficult).rkrkrk said:
I think it highly unlikely the EU would make such an offer.Tissue_Price said:
And that is exactly what @tombradby is currently speculating on.Tissue_Price said:
Though if the EU put genuine control of FoM on the table (not "emergency brakes" etc.) in a "stay" offer I wouldn't care to speculate as to how that would play out.
I think we are collectively too proud as a nation to change our minds. It would be quite ironic if the EU gave us an offer that would have won the original referendum but was insufficient to change our position given the result.
It's very hard for them to agree to anything - and that would be undermining one of the four freedoms.
I think it very likely that there will be a reconsider campaign.
But they will only be successful in getting a vote, if large numbers of people have changed their minds.
But I don't think the EU is either capable of or willing to change their position significantly.
If the economic pain that Remain warned about comes to pass - then I would expect people to change their minds. But if that happens, it's likely to be after Brexit.
Then the campaign to rejoin can gather strength. It will take a decade or longer before we are back in.
This could be part of a transition deal perhaps.
Ideally it would preserve our current terms and conditions.
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Unfair to say it's fake news: Nielson *has* died. Pong didn't say he'd died recently.TheScreamingEagles said:
Has? Fake News.Pong said:Leslie Nielsen has died.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41927557
RIP
He died seven years ago.0 -
The UK's industrial output grew at its fastest pace so far this year in September, according to official figures.
Production rose by 0.7% compared with the month before, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said, boosted by machinery and equipment output.0 -
Despite Brexit?FrancisUrquhart said:The UK's industrial output grew at its fastest pace so far this year in September, according to official figures.
Production rose by 0.7% compared with the month before, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said, boosted by machinery and equipment output.0 -
Because of brexit..:.But we haven't left yet...Rinse and repeat...GIN1138 said:
Despite Brexit?FrancisUrquhart said:The UK's industrial output grew at its fastest pace so far this year in September, according to official figures.
Production rose by 0.7% compared with the month before, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said, boosted by machinery and equipment output.
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To be fair BigG you voted remain , supported Cameron .Then after the vote which you accepted you gave your full support to May.In reality if the conservative leadership changes position so do you, which is fine for a tribal party loyalist.However there are some conservatives on here who do not always follow the current party line.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I want news reported even handed and I cannot think of any of the above reporters who are not pro remain and they show itSouthamObserver said:
I, too, am appalled and disgusted that the news is not being reported in the way that you would like it to be reported. This clearly shows that the news is biased, not that you are.Big_G_NorthWales said:I am not surprised TM has seen a modest improvement and am also pleased that I am not the only one wanting her to get on with the job, an accusation I have been on the receiving end a few times.
TM has announced the leaving date at 11.00pm on the 29th March 2019 and the remain cause has gone into overdrive aided and abetted by a broadcast media that is wholly committed to the cause of stopping Brexit.
Adam Boulton this morning has, with his usual smirk, rolled out in grave tone Lord Kerr’s accusation that TM is ignoring the ability to renege on A50, they have a report by that other Sky doom and gloom merchant Ed Conway from Europe saying how bad things are going to be with business, and of course that arch Europhile, Mark Stone reporting from the European Parliament on the lack of progress in talks. And that is without involving the most biased of them all Faisal Islam. What has happened to Sky News that they never attack the EU over their handling of the negotiations and their inability to act even handed.
I watch Sky News most of the time but recently they have moved to the left and become the broadcast media for Juncker’s et al and it must be grating with a lot of voters who just want to get on with it. It would be ironic if Murdoch does close Sky News down though I would not want that to happen.
I do wonder what will happen if this broadside of pro EU, reverse the decision, group manage to derail Brexit. The likely outcome will not be pretty, especially for those elite who have colluded both here and with the EU to thwart the democratic vote.0 -
Have they thought of asking the Swedes for copies? Very weird story.FrancisUrquhart said:The Crown Prosecution Service is facing embarrassment after admitting it destroyed key emails relating to the WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, who is holed up in Ecuador’s London embassy fighting extradition.
Email exchanges between the CPS and its Swedish counterparts over the high-profile case were deleted after the lawyer at the UK end retired in 2014.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/nov/10/uk-prosecutors-admit-destroying-key-emails-from-julian-assange-case?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other0 -
The options in the questionnaire aren't alternatives. The EU is trying to get the best deal from its point of view. That best deal is necessarily worse than what we already have, otherwise it wouldn't be the best deal from the EU's point of view.AlastairMeeks said:
Both of you drawing conclusions about an opinion poll finding about what other people think is a little bit... sketchy.Tissue_Price said:
Who could have anticipated that the EU would be more concerned about the political project than the well-being of their own citizens? Quite.foxinsoxuk said:
EU27 looking after their interests and not the UK's interests in Brexit talks?Tissue_Price said:
Colour me surprised. Who could possibly have anticipated that?
Reality is not just what other people think.
Given that context should we aim for no deal at all, which is categorically worse than anything else, a deal that's worse than what we have or stick with what we have? It's a genuine question. Going for no deal is stupid to my mind and a worse deal than what we have doesn't make a lot of sense either. But I'm in a minority.0 -
Mr. NorthWales, I agree on Sky News. Generally, it's gone very pro-EU since the referendum.0
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Those of you looking forward to the government getting the blame may be in for a disappointment - heck - over half of Lib Dem voters think the EU is not trying to get a good deal and barely one in five of them do......the most for any party....foxinsoxuk said:
EU27 looking after their interests and not the UK's interests in Brexit talks?Tissue_Price said:
Colour me surprised. Who could possibly have anticipated that?0 -
It is possible yet that Britain will remain in the EU (though I think it unlikely). The main route as envisaged by the most ardent Remain supporters is, however, fanciful.Tissue_Price said:
True enough. I was just cheekily paraphrasing the good doctor.AlastairMeeks said:
Both of you drawing conclusions about an opinion poll finding about what other people think is a little bit... sketchy.Tissue_Price said:
Who could have anticipated that the EU would be more concerned about the political project than the well-being of their own citizens? Quite.foxinsoxuk said:
EU27 looking after their interests and not the UK's interests in Brexit talks?Tissue_Price said:
Colour me surprised. Who could possibly have anticipated that?
Reality is not just what other people think.
In any case, my point during this thread has been that I fear those who wish us to remain (on both sides) are ignoring political reality. I know you (and @foxinsoxuk) agree about that.
Brexit will need to be seen to be failing on its own terms before Remain becomes an option. For that reason, Leavers should be rooting for the government to reach even a bad preliminary deal for December. The alternative could well result in a serious shock, as businesses activate their contingency plans for No Deal Brexit.0 -
Off topic, a week after he was suspended, I note Charlie Elphicke is still yet to be told why he was suspended.
Mrs May is acting a bit like Carwyn Jones.0 -
Why should they be 'balanced'. You don't have to watch it if you don't like it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sky are remain supporting and they should be balanced0 -
Yeah but blame doesn't get you a successful Brexit. The outfit you now espouse promised sunlit uplands. They need to deliver. Even slight;y overcast uplands would be something.CarlottaVance said:
Those of you looking forward to the government getting the blame may be in for a disappointment - heck - over half of Lib Dem voters think the EU is not trying to get a good deal and barely one in five of them do......the most for any party....foxinsoxuk said:
EU27 looking after their interests and not the UK's interests in Brexit talks?Tissue_Price said:
Colour me surprised. Who could possibly have anticipated that?0 -
Elphicke should resign and stand as an independent in a by election.TheScreamingEagles said:Off topic, a week after he was suspended, I note Charlie Elphicke is still yet to be told why he was suspended.
Mrs May is acting a bit like Carwyn Jones.0 -
Indeed - and if the EU think (courtesy of Clarke, Adonis, Clegg, Brown, Blair et al.) they are instead playing for a re-vote next summer then that's not going to happen.AlastairMeeks said:
It is possible yet that Britain will remain in the EU (though I think it unlikely). The main route as envisaged by the most ardent Remain supporters is, however, fanciful.Tissue_Price said:
True enough. I was just cheekily paraphrasing the good doctor.AlastairMeeks said:
Both of you drawing conclusions about an opinion poll finding about what other people think is a little bit... sketchy.Tissue_Price said:
Who could have anticipated that the EU would be more concerned about the political project than the well-being of their own citizens? Quite.foxinsoxuk said:
EU27 looking after their interests and not the UK's interests in Brexit talks?Tissue_Price said:
Colour me surprised. Who could possibly have anticipated that?
Reality is not just what other people think.
In any case, my point during this thread has been that I fear those who wish us to remain (on both sides) are ignoring political reality. I know you (and @foxinsoxuk) agree about that.
Brexit will need to be seen to be failing on its own terms before Remain becomes an option. For that reason, Leavers should be rooting for the government to reach even a bad preliminary deal for December. The alternative could well result in a serious shock, as businesses activate their contingency plans for No Deal Brexit.0 -
It is an OFCOM requirement that they be balanced.Dura_Ace said:
Why should they be 'balanced'. You don't have to watch it if you don't like it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sky are remain supporting and they should be balanced
FWIW I think they are0 -
PM writes in today’s Telegraph: sounds like Corbyn’s in agreement for the exit date to be confirmed in the Bill.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/09/determined-give-country-best-possible-brexit/
So it is right that as we seek to bring our country together, Members on all sides should come together in scrutinising this Bill.
That Parliamentary process is important and I am clear that where Members of Parliament think they can improve the Bill, this government will listen to them. Indeed, this amendment to put the date of our departure on the face of the Bill is itself a great example of that – coming as it did with cross-party backing.
But I am just as clear of this: we will not tolerate attempts from any quarter to use the process of amendments to this Bill as a mechanism to try to block the democratic wishes of the British people by attempting to slow down or stop our departure from the European Union.
The British people have been clear. Parliament itself voted for Article 50 – and for this Bill at its Second Reading. We are leaving the European Union on March 29, 2019.0 -
Seems to be down to Sky's political reporter Faisal Islam.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I agree on Sky News. Generally, it's gone very pro-EU since the referendum.
0 -
Surely an organisation like the CPS should have a very clear email retention policy -FrancisUrquhart said:The Crown Prosecution Service is facing embarrassment after admitting it destroyed key emails relating to the WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, who is holed up in Ecuador’s London embassy fighting extradition.
Email exchanges between the CPS and its Swedish counterparts over the high-profile case were deleted after the lawyer at the UK end retired in 2014.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/nov/10/uk-prosecutors-admit-destroying-key-emails-from-julian-assange-case?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
“Retain all emails. For ever. In duplicate. And printed copies if it’s really important”.
Storage is cheap and getting cheaper, who are the idiots running computers for the government?0 -
It could just be that the news since the referendum has been rather bad for the Brexiteers...Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I agree on Sky News. Generally, it's gone very pro-EU since the referendum.
0 -
New blogs from Matt Singh are always welcome:
https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2017/11/arent-polls-moving-despite-chaos.html/0 -
In this slow motion car crash, the car has now made contact with the wall, the bumper is slowly crumpling, but the passengers are not screaming yet as they have not yet felt the impact.0
-
Dr Fox,
Of course the EU is looking after number one (or rather number 27) in these "negotiations".
The irritation is that some Remainers are also doing the same. They actually want a bad deal for the UK. One reason is to feel justified, another reason is sheer anger at the result and wanting to teach the Brexit thickos a lesson.
There's hope for you, though. Your Dad seems to have his head screwed on, and hopefully the older generation can teach the "kids" how to suck eggs.
By appointing Barnier and Juncker, the EU showed it wasn't interested in real talks. It is fighting for its life, and like a cornered rat, it could turn vicious before realpolitik takes over.
But cheer up, we're leaving and a bright future lies ahead.0 -
I have grave doubts about specifying in law the exit date. It means Britain can't ask for an extension, even for a couple of weeks to allow for ratification of a last-minute deal. The possibility of a crash Brexit (including a short, temporary one), increase markedly with this clause.Sandpit said:PM writes in today’s Telegraph: sounds like Corbyn’s in agreement for the exit date to be confirmed in the Bill.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/09/determined-give-country-best-possible-brexit/
So it is right that as we seek to bring our country together, Members on all sides should come together in scrutinising this Bill.
That Parliamentary process is important and I am clear that where Members of Parliament think they can improve the Bill, this government will listen to them. Indeed, this amendment to put the date of our departure on the face of the Bill is itself a great example of that – coming as it did with cross-party backing.
But I am just as clear of this: we will not tolerate attempts from any quarter to use the process of amendments to this Bill as a mechanism to try to block the democratic wishes of the British people by attempting to slow down or stop our departure from the European Union.
The British people have been clear. Parliament itself voted for Article 50 – and for this Bill at its Second Reading. We are leaving the European Union on March 29, 2019.0 -
You're very good at attributing motives to others.CD13 said:Dr Fox,
Of course the EU is looking after number one (or rather number 27) in these "negotiations".
The irritation is that some Remainers are also doing the same. They actually want a bad deal for the UK. One reason is to feel justified, another reason is sheer anger at the result and wanting to teach the Brexit thickos a lesson.
There's hope for you, though. Your Dad seems to have his head screwed on, and hopefully the older generation can teach the "kids" how to suck eggs.
By appointing Barnier and Juncker, the EU showed it wasn't interested in real talks. It is fighting for its life, and like a cornered rat, it could turn vicious before realpolitik takes over.
But cheer up, we're leaving and a bright future lies ahead.0 -
A few years ago one CPS office was sending Word files replete with track changes to the other side.Sandpit said:
Surely an organisation like the CPS should have a very clear email retention policy -FrancisUrquhart said:The Crown Prosecution Service is facing embarrassment after admitting it destroyed key emails relating to the WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, who is holed up in Ecuador’s London embassy fighting extradition.
Email exchanges between the CPS and its Swedish counterparts over the high-profile case were deleted after the lawyer at the UK end retired in 2014.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/nov/10/uk-prosecutors-admit-destroying-key-emails-from-julian-assange-case?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
“Retain all emails. For ever. In duplicate. And printed copies if it’s really important”.
Storage is cheap and getting cheaper, who are the idiots running computers for the government?
I've never had confidence in the I.T. abilities of the CPS since then.0 -
And one from Anthony Wells. Paging @SouthamObserver on this bit:Tissue_Price said:New blogs from Matt Singh are always welcome:
https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2017/11/arent-polls-moving-despite-chaos.html/
An alternative possibility is that Tory voters are sticking with the Conservatives, however poor they are, because the alternative is Jeremy Corbyn. To test this YouGov asked people who said they’d vote Tory tomorrow why they were supporting them. Only 7% of Tory voters said it was because they both agreed with the government’s aims and thought they were delivering them, 48% said they agreed with the government’s aims even if they were struggling to deliver them, 22% said they thought the government were competent, even if they didn’t agree with all their aims. 19% of Tory voters, however, said they didn’t think the government were governing well and didn’t agree with their aims… but they still preferred them to Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/99540 -
I agree but I am not without criticism of TM but I do not see an alternative at present.Yorkcity said:
To be fair BigG you voted remain , supported Cameron .Then after the vote which you accepted you gave your full support to May.In reality if the conservative leadership changes position so do you, which is fine for a tribal party loyalist.However there are some conservatives on here who do not always follow the current party line.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I want news reported even handed and I cannot think of any of the above reporters who are not pro remain and they show itSouthamObserver said:
I, too, am appalled and disgusted that the news is not being reported in the way that you would like it to be reported. This clearly shows that the news is biased, not that you are.Big_G_NorthWales said:I am not surprised TM has seen a modest improvement and am also pleased that I am not the only one wanting her to get on with the job, an accusation I have been on the receiving end a few times.
TM has announced the leaving date at 11.00pm on the 29th March 2019 and the remain cause has gone into overdrive aided and abetted by a broadcast media that is wholly committed to the cause of stopping Brexit.
Adam Boulton this morning has, with his usual smirk, rolled out in grave tone Lord Kerr’s accusation that TM is ignoring the ability to renege on A50, they have a report by that other Sky doom and gloom merchant Ed Conway from Europe saying how bad things are going to be with business, and of course that arch Europhile, Mark Stone reporting from the European Parliament on the lack of progress in talks. And that is without involving the most biased of them all Faisal Islam. What has happened to Sky News that they never attack the EU over their handling of the negotiations and their inability to act even handed.
I watch Sky News most of the time but recently they have moved to the left and become the broadcast media for Juncker’s et al and it must be grating with a lot of voters who just want to get on with it. It would be ironic if Murdoch does close Sky News down though I would not want that to happen.
I do wonder what will happen if this broadside of pro EU, reverse the decision, group manage to derail Brexit. The likely outcome will not be pretty, especially for those elite who have colluded both here and with the EU to thwart the democratic vote.
0 -
Mr Song,
"You're very good at attributing motives to others."
Thank you, compliments are always welcome.0 -
Miss Vance, whether a referendum or Commons revocation is sought, the key is whether MPs are persuaded on a change. Obviously, if the former the electorate must be persuaded subsequently as well.0
-
You do know they have a duty of impartiality as does the BBC under OfcomDura_Ace said:
Why should they be 'balanced'. You don't have to watch it if you don't like it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sky are remain supporting and they should be balanced0 -
I wonder if the tax office is still sticking millions of people details on a DVD and popping it in the mail?0
-
It is part of the reason fox news in the uk was shuttered. They got fined for this as they were just rebroadcasting us shows, where there is no legal duty to be impartial.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You do know they have a duty of impartiality as does the BBC under OfcomDura_Ace said:
Why should they be 'balanced'. You don't have to watch it if you don't like it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sky are remain supporting and they should be balanced0 -
But it will concentrate minds and may well be popular despite the consequencesdavid_herdson said:
I have grave doubts about specifying in law the exit date. It means Britain can't ask for an extension, even for a couple of weeks to allow for ratification of a last-minute deal. The possibility of a crash Brexit (including a short, temporary one), increase markedly with this clause.Sandpit said:PM writes in today’s Telegraph: sounds like Corbyn’s in agreement for the exit date to be confirmed in the Bill.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/09/determined-give-country-best-possible-brexit/
So it is right that as we seek to bring our country together, Members on all sides should come together in scrutinising this Bill.
That Parliamentary process is important and I am clear that where Members of Parliament think they can improve the Bill, this government will listen to them. Indeed, this amendment to put the date of our departure on the face of the Bill is itself a great example of that – coming as it did with cross-party backing.
But I am just as clear of this: we will not tolerate attempts from any quarter to use the process of amendments to this Bill as a mechanism to try to block the democratic wishes of the British people by attempting to slow down or stop our departure from the European Union.
The British people have been clear. Parliament itself voted for Article 50 – and for this Bill at its Second Reading. We are leaving the European Union on March 29, 2019.0 -
Out of curiosity, if say we get the worst case scenario of economic ruin because of (a no deal/WTO) Brexit, would you switch to Remain, or would you still want Brexit?Morris_Dancer said:Miss Vance, whether a referendum or Commons revocation is sought, the key is whether MPs are persuaded on a change. Obviously, if the former the electorate must be persuaded subsequently as well.
0 -
Agreed, people will feel that there is something solid at last.Big_G_NorthWales said:
But it will concentrate minds and may well be popular despite the consequencesdavid_herdson said:
I have grave doubts about specifying in law the exit date. It means Britain can't ask for an extension, even for a couple of weeks to allow for ratification of a last-minute deal. The possibility of a crash Brexit (including a short, temporary one), increase markedly with this clause.Sandpit said:PM writes in today’s Telegraph: sounds like Corbyn’s in agreement for the exit date to be confirmed in the Bill.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/09/determined-give-country-best-possible-brexit/
So it is right that as we seek to bring our country together, Members on all sides should come together in scrutinising this Bill.
That Parliamentary process is important and I am clear that where Members of Parliament think they can improve the Bill, this government will listen to them. Indeed, this amendment to put the date of our departure on the face of the Bill is itself a great example of that – coming as it did with cross-party backing.
But I am just as clear of this: we will not tolerate attempts from any quarter to use the process of amendments to this Bill as a mechanism to try to block the democratic wishes of the British people by attempting to slow down or stop our departure from the European Union.
The British people have been clear. Parliament itself voted for Article 50 – and for this Bill at its Second Reading. We are leaving the European Union on March 29, 2019.0 -
Short term gain for long term pain?Big_G_NorthWales said:
But it will concentrate minds and may well be popular despite the consequencesdavid_herdson said:
I have grave doubts about specifying in law the exit date. It means Britain can't ask for an extension, even for a couple of weeks to allow for ratification of a last-minute deal. The possibility of a crash Brexit (including a short, temporary one), increase markedly with this clause.Sandpit said:PM writes in today’s Telegraph: sounds like Corbyn’s in agreement for the exit date to be confirmed in the Bill.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/09/determined-give-country-best-possible-brexit/
So it is right that as we seek to bring our country together, Members on all sides should come together in scrutinising this Bill.
That Parliamentary process is important and I am clear that where Members of Parliament think they can improve the Bill, this government will listen to them. Indeed, this amendment to put the date of our departure on the face of the Bill is itself a great example of that – coming as it did with cross-party backing.
But I am just as clear of this: we will not tolerate attempts from any quarter to use the process of amendments to this Bill as a mechanism to try to block the democratic wishes of the British people by attempting to slow down or stop our departure from the European Union.
The British people have been clear. Parliament itself voted for Article 50 – and for this Bill at its Second Reading. We are leaving the European Union on March 29, 2019.
I'd expect nothing less from Mrs May.0 -
Yes, it's clear that Conservative support is being buttressed by fear of the road to Venezuela, even if the road to Brexit is doing a passable imitation of it.Tissue_Price said:
And one from Anthony Wells. Paging @SouthamObserver on this bit:Tissue_Price said:New blogs from Matt Singh are always welcome:
https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2017/11/arent-polls-moving-despite-chaos.html/
An alternative possibility is that Tory voters are sticking with the Conservatives, however poor they are, because the alternative is Jeremy Corbyn. To test this YouGov asked people who said they’d vote Tory tomorrow why they were supporting them. Only 7% of Tory voters said it was because they both agreed with the government’s aims and thought they were delivering them, 48% said they agreed with the government’s aims even if they were struggling to deliver them, 22% said they thought the government were competent, even if they didn’t agree with all their aims. 19% of Tory voters, however, said they didn’t think the government were governing well and didn’t agree with their aims… but they still preferred them to Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/99540 -
A very apt way of putting it.Barnesian said:In this slow motion car crash, the car has now made contact with the wall, the bumper is slowly crumpling, but the passengers are not screaming yet as they have not yet felt the impact.
There's no point anyone talking about a second referendum until serious injuries have been inflicted and that will not be for some time yet. It may happen before we have left but that is not certain.0 -
News can be both selective and preseneted in a certain way to support either or any side.rkrkrk said:
It could just be that the news since the referendum has been rather bad for the Brexiteers...Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I agree on Sky News. Generally, it's gone very pro-EU since the referendum.
0 -
I think that can only happen after Brexit and some years down the road.TheScreamingEagles said:
Out of curiosity, if say we get the worst case scenario of economic ruin because of (a no deal/WTO) Brexit, would you switch to Remain, or would you still want Brexit?Morris_Dancer said:Miss Vance, whether a referendum or Commons revocation is sought, the key is whether MPs are persuaded on a change. Obviously, if the former the electorate must be persuaded subsequently as well.
It will be interesting to see if labour put rejoining in their 2022 manifesto (if there is not an earlier GE)0 -
But they are not alternatives, they are cumulative.Peter_the_Punter said:
Yes, it's clear that Conservative support is being buttressed by fear of the road to Venezuela, even if the road to Brexit is doing a passable imitation of it.Tissue_Price said:
And one from Anthony Wells. Paging @SouthamObserver on this bit:Tissue_Price said:New blogs from Matt Singh are always welcome:
https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2017/11/arent-polls-moving-despite-chaos.html/
An alternative possibility is that Tory voters are sticking with the Conservatives, however poor they are, because the alternative is Jeremy Corbyn. To test this YouGov asked people who said they’d vote Tory tomorrow why they were supporting them. Only 7% of Tory voters said it was because they both agreed with the government’s aims and thought they were delivering them, 48% said they agreed with the government’s aims even if they were struggling to deliver them, 22% said they thought the government were competent, even if they didn’t agree with all their aims. 19% of Tory voters, however, said they didn’t think the government were governing well and didn’t agree with their aims… but they still preferred them to Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/99540 -
Mr. Eagles, that's an Honorius/Arcadius choice, unfortunately.
I'd be extremely displeased regardless of what happened. If there were a vote (NB and it was economic ruin rather than just turbulence) I don't know if I'd cast a ballot.
Clegg, Adonis and, er, the other one skipping to Brussels to try and undermine a vote, with Starmer batting for the other side in Parliament, does not make me likelier to be reconciled to remaining.
Back on the day itself, I hesitated a lot more than expected, and in the days running up to it, because although I've long been convinced the EU will collapse and is an unsound institution, the economic question mark is not a small one. But disregarding democracy and working actively against the wishes of the electorate and the interest of the nation to get the worst possible deal to try and force (blackmail, dare I say?) the electorate to change their mind is repulsive behaviour.0 -
You mean we can have Brexit AND Venezuela? Wow! Just imagine how much we will be able to give to the NHS then.Richard_Nabavi said:
But they are not alternatives, they are cumulative.Peter_the_Punter said:
Yes, it's clear that Conservative support is being buttressed by fear of the road to Venezuela, even if the road to Brexit is doing a passable imitation of it.Tissue_Price said:
And one from Anthony Wells. Paging @SouthamObserver on this bit:Tissue_Price said:New blogs from Matt Singh are always welcome:
https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2017/11/arent-polls-moving-despite-chaos.html/
An alternative possibility is that Tory voters are sticking with the Conservatives, however poor they are, because the alternative is Jeremy Corbyn. To test this YouGov asked people who said they’d vote Tory tomorrow why they were supporting them. Only 7% of Tory voters said it was because they both agreed with the government’s aims and thought they were delivering them, 48% said they agreed with the government’s aims even if they were struggling to deliver them, 22% said they thought the government were competent, even if they didn’t agree with all their aims. 19% of Tory voters, however, said they didn’t think the government were governing well and didn’t agree with their aims… but they still preferred them to Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9954
0 -
I wonder how many Sky Sports subscribers voted Leave.....?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I agree on Sky News. Generally, it's gone very pro-EU since the referendum.
0 -
Interesting. but even if you take off the 19%, that'd still leave the Tories in the low 30s overall, which is better than they polled through much of 2013-4. A fair chunk of that UKIP transfer looks pretty solid.Tissue_Price said:
And one from Anthony Wells. Paging @SouthamObserver on this bit:Tissue_Price said:New blogs from Matt Singh are always welcome:
https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2017/11/arent-polls-moving-despite-chaos.html/
An alternative possibility is that Tory voters are sticking with the Conservatives, however poor they are, because the alternative is Jeremy Corbyn. To test this YouGov asked people who said they’d vote Tory tomorrow why they were supporting them. Only 7% of Tory voters said it was because they both agreed with the government’s aims and thought they were delivering them, 48% said they agreed with the government’s aims even if they were struggling to deliver them, 22% said they thought the government were competent, even if they didn’t agree with all their aims. 19% of Tory voters, however, said they didn’t think the government were governing well and didn’t agree with their aims… but they still preferred them to Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/99540 -
It would also help us all on both sides to understand the people of this country better, if we had a media that more accurately reflected different views. In vote after vote we've been misled by the media and polling narrative. The healthiest response from Remainers after the referendum was that flash of clarity: 'I don't understand my country', which was sadly swallowed by 'the other side won because they were nasty and we were just too nice'. An impartial media is surely vital if we want to start understanding our country.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You do know they have a duty of impartiality as does the BBC under OfcomDura_Ace said:
Why should they be 'balanced'. You don't have to watch it if you don't like it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sky are remain supporting and they should be balanced0 -
I voted remain by the wayMarqueeMark said:
I wonder how many Sky Sports subscribers voted Leave.....?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I agree on Sky News. Generally, it's gone very pro-EU since the referendum.
0 -
-
It can and will happen before March 2019.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think that can only happen after Brexit and some years down the road.TheScreamingEagles said:
Out of curiosity, if say we get the worst case scenario of economic ruin because of (a no deal/WTO) Brexit, would you switch to Remain, or would you still want Brexit?Morris_Dancer said:Miss Vance, whether a referendum or Commons revocation is sought, the key is whether MPs are persuaded on a change. Obviously, if the former the electorate must be persuaded subsequently as well.
It will be interesting to see if labour put rejoining in their 2022 manifesto (if there is not an earlier GE)
CF Ford Finance.0 -
They can change the law back again. They will probably do just that.david_herdson said:
I have grave doubts about specifying in law the exit date. It means Britain can't ask for an extension, even for a couple of weeks to allow for ratification of a last-minute deal. The possibility of a crash Brexit (including a short, temporary one), increase markedly with this clause.Sandpit said:PM writes in today’s Telegraph: sounds like Corbyn’s in agreement for the exit date to be confirmed in the Bill.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/09/determined-give-country-best-possible-brexit/
So it is right that as we seek to bring our country together, Members on all sides should come together in scrutinising this Bill.
That Parliamentary process is important and I am clear that where Members of Parliament think they can improve the Bill, this government will listen to them. Indeed, this amendment to put the date of our departure on the face of the Bill is itself a great example of that – coming as it did with cross-party backing.
But I am just as clear of this: we will not tolerate attempts from any quarter to use the process of amendments to this Bill as a mechanism to try to block the democratic wishes of the British people by attempting to slow down or stop our departure from the European Union.
The British people have been clear. Parliament itself voted for Article 50 – and for this Bill at its Second Reading. We are leaving the European Union on March 29, 2019.0 -
+1Winstanley said:
It would also help us all on both sides to understand the people of this country better, if we had a media that more accurately reflected different views. In vote after vote we've been misled by the media and polling narrative. The healthiest response from Remainers after the referendum was that flash of clarity: 'I don't understand my country', which was sadly swallowed by 'the other side won because they were nasty and we were just too nice'. An impartial media is surely vital if we want to start understanding our country.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You do know they have a duty of impartiality as does the BBC under OfcomDura_Ace said:
Why should they be 'balanced'. You don't have to watch it if you don't like it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sky are remain supporting and they should be balanced0 -
It will be popular among the tiny number of people who care about that level of detail, most of whom are already in the Tory tent and who wouldn't leave for the sake of a minor delay.Big_G_NorthWales said:
But it will concentrate minds and may well be popular despite the consequencesdavid_herdson said:
I have grave doubts about specifying in law the exit date. It means Britain can't ask for an extension, even for a couple of weeks to allow for ratification of a last-minute deal. The possibility of a crash Brexit (including a short, temporary one), increase markedly with this clause.Sandpit said:PM writes in today’s Telegraph: sounds like Corbyn’s in agreement for the exit date to be confirmed in the Bill.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/09/determined-give-country-best-possible-brexit/
So it is right that as we seek to bring our country together, Members on all sides should come together in scrutinising this Bill.
That Parliamentary process is important and I am clear that where Members of Parliament think they can improve the Bill, this government will listen to them. Indeed, this amendment to put the date of our departure on the face of the Bill is itself a great example of that – coming as it did with cross-party backing.
But I am just as clear of this: we will not tolerate attempts from any quarter to use the process of amendments to this Bill as a mechanism to try to block the democratic wishes of the British people by attempting to slow down or stop our departure from the European Union.
The British people have been clear. Parliament itself voted for Article 50 – and for this Bill at its Second Reading. We are leaving the European Union on March 29, 2019.0 -
Indeed. And Labour's support could probably be broken down in a similar sort of way, with plenty supporting them because "they're not the Tories".david_herdson said:
Interesting. but even if you take off the 19%, that'd still leave the Tories in the low 30s overall, which is better than they polled through much of 2013-4. A fair chunk of that UKIP transfer looks pretty solid.Tissue_Price said:
And one from Anthony Wells. Paging @SouthamObserver on this bit:Tissue_Price said:New blogs from Matt Singh are always welcome:
https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2017/11/arent-polls-moving-despite-chaos.html/
An alternative possibility is that Tory voters are sticking with the Conservatives, however poor they are, because the alternative is Jeremy Corbyn. To test this YouGov asked people who said they’d vote Tory tomorrow why they were supporting them. Only 7% of Tory voters said it was because they both agreed with the government’s aims and thought they were delivering them, 48% said they agreed with the government’s aims even if they were struggling to deliver them, 22% said they thought the government were competent, even if they didn’t agree with all their aims. 19% of Tory voters, however, said they didn’t think the government were governing well and didn’t agree with their aims… but they still preferred them to Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/99540 -
Mr. Winstanley, indeed.0
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Those former kippers in the CDE bracket may be much flakier at turning out post Brexit.david_herdson said:
Interesting. but even if you take off the 19%, that'd still leave the Tories in the low 30s overall, which is better than they polled through much of 2013-4. A fair chunk of that UKIP transfer looks pretty solid.Tissue_Price said:
And one from Anthony Wells. Paging @SouthamObserver on this bit:Tissue_Price said:New blogs from Matt Singh are always welcome:
https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2017/11/arent-polls-moving-despite-chaos.html/
An alternative possibility is that Tory voters are sticking with the Conservatives, however poor they are, because the alternative is Jeremy Corbyn. To test this YouGov asked people who said they’d vote Tory tomorrow why they were supporting them. Only 7% of Tory voters said it was because they both agreed with the government’s aims and thought they were delivering them, 48% said they agreed with the government’s aims even if they were struggling to deliver them, 22% said they thought the government were competent, even if they didn’t agree with all their aims. 19% of Tory voters, however, said they didn’t think the government were governing well and didn’t agree with their aims… but they still preferred them to Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/99540 -
David Davis looks like a man overwhelmed by the magnitude of what he's taken on.0
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Although I believe you, like many solid Tory supporters, would at least like to be presented with some alternatives. Preferably from the newer intake, who a) haven't a track record of being fuckwits in office and b) are less likely to destabilise the PM in the coming months whilst Brexit gets to its denouement.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree but I am not without criticism of TM but I do not see an alternative at present.
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'I don't believe in the government but they're better than the opposition' is a decent chunk of any government's coalition, you could have gotten the same numbers or more under Brown or Miliband - especially with the SNP scaremongering thrown in.david_herdson said:
Interesting. but even if you take off the 19%, that'd still leave the Tories in the low 30s overall, which is better than they polled through much of 2013-4. A fair chunk of that UKIP transfer looks pretty solid.Tissue_Price said:
And one from Anthony Wells. Paging @SouthamObserver on this bit:Tissue_Price said:New blogs from Matt Singh are always welcome:
https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2017/11/arent-polls-moving-despite-chaos.html/
An alternative possibility is that Tory voters are sticking with the Conservatives, however poor they are, because the alternative is Jeremy Corbyn. To test this YouGov asked people who said they’d vote Tory tomorrow why they were supporting them. Only 7% of Tory voters said it was because they both agreed with the government’s aims and thought they were delivering them, 48% said they agreed with the government’s aims even if they were struggling to deliver them, 22% said they thought the government were competent, even if they didn’t agree with all their aims. 19% of Tory voters, however, said they didn’t think the government were governing well and didn’t agree with their aims… but they still preferred them to Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/99540 -
Very true .At the moment it seems there is no third way.Just binary choices or abstaining.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree but I am not without criticism of TM but I do not see an alternative at present.Yorkcity said:
To be fair BigG you voted remain , supported Cameron .Then after the vote which you accepted you gave your full support to May.In reality if the conservative leadership changes position so do you, which is fine for a tribal party loyalist.However there are some conservatives on here who do not always follow the current party line.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I want news reported even handed and I cannot think of any of the above reporters who are not pro remain and they show itSouthamObserver said:
I, too, am appalled and disgusted that the news is not being reported in the way that you would like it to be reported. This clearly shows that the news is biased, not that you are.Big_G_NorthWales said:I am not surprised TM has seen a modest improvement and am also pleased that I am not the only one wanting her to get on with the job, an accusation I have been on the receiving end a few times.
TM has announced the leaving date at 11.00pm on the 29th March 2019 and the remain cause has gone into overdrive aided and abetted by a broadcast media that is wholly committed to the cause of stopping Brexit.
Adam Boulton this morning has, with his usual smirk, rolled out in grave tone Lord Kerr’s accusation that TM is ignoring the ability to renege on A50, they have a report by that other Sky doom and gloom merchant Ed Conway from Europe saying how bad things are going to be with business, and of course that arch Europhile, Mark Stone reporting from the European Parliament on the lack of progress in talks. And that is without involving the most biased of them all Faisal Islam. What has happened to Sky News that they never attack the EU over their handling of the negotiations and their inability to act even handed.
I watch Sky News most of the time but recently they have moved to the left and become the broadcast media for Juncker’s et al and it must be grating with a lot of voters who just want to get on with it. It would be ironic if Murdoch does close Sky News down though I would not want that to happen.
I do wonder what will happen if this broadside of pro EU, reverse the decision, group manage to derail Brexit. The likely outcome will not be pretty, especially for those elite who have colluded both here and with the EU to thwart the democratic vote.0 -
We wont care, we'll be too busy fighting with dogs on the street for a scrap of pigeon.Peter_the_Punter said:
You mean we can have Brexit AND Venezuela? Wow! Just imagine how much we will be able to give to the NHS then.Richard_Nabavi said:
But they are not alternatives, they are cumulative.Peter_the_Punter said:
Yes, it's clear that Conservative support is being buttressed by fear of the road to Venezuela, even if the road to Brexit is doing a passable imitation of it.Tissue_Price said:
And one from Anthony Wells. Paging @SouthamObserver on this bit:Tissue_Price said:New blogs from Matt Singh are always welcome:
https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2017/11/arent-polls-moving-despite-chaos.html/
An alternative possibility is that Tory voters are sticking with the Conservatives, however poor they are, because the alternative is Jeremy Corbyn. To test this YouGov asked people who said they’d vote Tory tomorrow why they were supporting them. Only 7% of Tory voters said it was because they both agreed with the government’s aims and thought they were delivering them, 48% said they agreed with the government’s aims even if they were struggling to deliver them, 22% said they thought the government were competent, even if they didn’t agree with all their aims. 19% of Tory voters, however, said they didn’t think the government were governing well and didn’t agree with their aims… but they still preferred them to Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/99540 -
I think the direct confirmation by TM today that we will be out at 11.00am on the 29th March 2019 will resonate with a large part of the population. Polls have tended to show about 68% want to leave so it is not just conservatives in the tentdavid_herdson said:
It will be popular among the tiny number of people who care about that level of detail, most of whom are already in the Tory tent and who wouldn't leave for the sake of a minor delay.Big_G_NorthWales said:
But it will concentrate minds and may well be popular despite the consequencesdavid_herdson said:
I have grave doubts about specifying in law the exit date. It means Britain can't ask for an extension, even for a couple of weeks to allow for ratification of a last-minute deal. The possibility of a crash Brexit (including a short, temporary one), increase markedly with this clause.Sandpit said:PM writes in today’s Telegraph: sounds like Corbyn’s in agreement for the exit date to be confirmed in the Bill.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/09/determined-give-country-best-possible-brexit/
So it is right that as we seek to bring our country together, Members on all sides should come together in scrutinising this Bill.
That Parliamentary process is important and I am clear that where Members of Parliament think they can improve the Bill, this government will listen to them. Indeed, this amendment to put the date of our departure on the face of the Bill is itself a great example of that – coming as it did with cross-party backing.
But I am just as clear of this: we will not tolerate attempts from any quarter to use the process of amendments to this Bill as a mechanism to try to block the democratic wishes of the British people by attempting to slow down or stop our departure from the European Union.
The British people have been clear. Parliament itself voted for Article 50 – and for this Bill at its Second Reading. We are leaving the European Union on March 29, 2019.0 -
They'd have to do so extremely quickly if negotiations go down to the wire - which would need the support of all parties. And if it was repealed at the last minute, it would look far worse than having not done anything in the first place. True Grand Old Duke of York stuff.FF43 said:
They can change the law back again. They will probably do just that.david_herdson said:
I have grave doubts about specifying in law the exit date. It means Britain can't ask for an extension, even for a couple of weeks to allow for ratification of a last-minute deal. The possibility of a crash Brexit (including a short, temporary one), increase markedly with this clause.Sandpit said:PM writes in today’s Telegraph: sounds like Corbyn’s in agreement for the exit date to be confirmed in the Bill.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/09/determined-give-country-best-possible-brexit/
So it is right that as we seek to bring our country together, Members on all sides should come together in scrutinising this Bill.
That Parliamentary process is important and I am clear that where Members of Parliament think they can improve the Bill, this government will listen to them. Indeed, this amendment to put the date of our departure on the face of the Bill is itself a great example of that – coming as it did with cross-party backing.
But I am just as clear of this: we will not tolerate attempts from any quarter to use the process of amendments to this Bill as a mechanism to try to block the democratic wishes of the British people by attempting to slow down or stop our departure from the European Union.
The British people have been clear. Parliament itself voted for Article 50 – and for this Bill at its Second Reading. We are leaving the European Union on March 29, 2019.0 -
He is the only Leaver trying to make Brexit work, to give Davis credit where it is due.TheScreamingEagles said:David Davis looks like a man overwhelmed by the magnitude of what he's taken on.
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I absolutely agree with that and hope TM does bring in new blood after the budgetMarqueeMark said:
Although I believe you, like many solid Tory supporters, would at least like to be presented with some alternatives. Preferably from the newer intake, who a) haven't a track record of being fuckwits in office and b) are less likely to destabilise the PM in the coming months whilst Brexit gets to its denouement.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree but I am not without criticism of TM but I do not see an alternative at present.0 -
Some of us did warn him it wasn't as easy as he thought it would be.FF43 said:
He is the only Leaver trying to make Brexit work, to give Davis credit where it is due.TheScreamingEagles said:David Davis looks like a man overwhelmed by the magnitude of what he's taken on.
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But to do so, they will have to win the argument, rather than just drag their feet and obfuscate and winge and thwceam and thwceam and thwceam until they're thick.... some more.FF43 said:
They can change the law back again. They will probably do just that.david_herdson said:
I have grave doubts about specifying in law the exit date. It means Britain can't ask for an extension, even for a couple of weeks to allow for ratification of a last-minute deal. The possibility of a crash Brexit (including a short, temporary one), increase markedly with this clause.Sandpit said:PM writes in today’s Telegraph: sounds like Corbyn’s in agreement for the exit date to be confirmed in the Bill.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/09/determined-give-country-best-possible-brexit/
So it is right that as we seek to bring our country together, Members on all sides should come together in scrutinising this Bill.
That Parliamentary process is important and I am clear that where Members of Parliament think they can improve the Bill, this government will listen to them. Indeed, this amendment to put the date of our departure on the face of the Bill is itself a great example of that – coming as it did with cross-party backing.
But I am just as clear of this: we will not tolerate attempts from any quarter to use the process of amendments to this Bill as a mechanism to try to block the democratic wishes of the British people by attempting to slow down or stop our departure from the European Union.
The British people have been clear. Parliament itself voted for Article 50 – and for this Bill at its Second Reading. We are leaving the European Union on March 29, 2019.0 -
Polls don't show about 68% want to leave. That is a serious misreading.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think the direct confirmation by TM today that we will be out at 11.00am on the 29th March 2019 will resonate with a large part of the population. Polls have tended to show about 68% want to leave so it is not just conservatives in the tentdavid_herdson said:
It will be popular among the tiny number of people who care about that level of detail, most of whom are already in the Tory tent and who wouldn't leave for the sake of a minor delay.Big_G_NorthWales said:
But it will concentrate minds and may well be popular despite the consequencesdavid_herdson said:
I have grave doubts about specifying in law the exit date. It means Britain can't ask for an extension, even for a couple of weeks to allow for ratification of a last-minute deal. The possibility of a crash Brexit (including a short, temporary one), increase markedly with this clause.Sandpit said:PM writes in today’s Telegraph: sounds like Corbyn’s in agreement for the exit date to be confirmed in the Bill.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/09/determined-give-country-best-possible-brexit/
So it is right that as we seek to bring our country together, Members on all sides should come together in scrutinising this Bill.
That Parliamentary process is important and I am clear that where Members of Parliament think they can improve the Bill, this government will listen to them. Indeed, this amendment to put the date of our departure on the face of the Bill is itself a great example of that – coming as it did with cross-party backing.
But I am just as clear of this: we will not tolerate attempts from any quarter to use the process of amendments to this Bill as a mechanism to try to block the democratic wishes of the British people by attempting to slow down or stop our departure from the European Union.
The British people have been clear. Parliament itself voted for Article 50 – and for this Bill at its Second Reading. We are leaving the European Union on March 29, 2019.
Polls show that a substantial number of people think that leaving was and is a mistake but now sadly necessary. There is no evidence that they are excited or enthused by the prospect. Their mood is more one of a funeral - the deceased is sorely missed but not burying the cadaver is not an option. They don't expect bunting and balloons.0 -
Subtly done by Sam:
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/9289582041969377290 -
You don't seriously think Brexit is going to happen do you? It's just a parlour game to give the Tories something to do to kill time. The idea of it going through when parliament has the chance it stop it must be close to nil. Don't confuse keeping their powder dry by the overwhelming parliamentary Remainers with acquiescence.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think that can only happen after Brexit and some years down the road.TheScreamingEagles said:
Out of curiosity, if say we get the worst case scenario of economic ruin because of (a no deal/WTO) Brexit, would you switch to Remain, or would you still want Brexit?Morris_Dancer said:Miss Vance, whether a referendum or Commons revocation is sought, the key is whether MPs are persuaded on a change. Obviously, if the former the electorate must be persuaded subsequently as well.
It will be interesting to see if labour put rejoining in their 2022 manifesto (if there is not an earlier GE)0 -
RT gold for serving Tory & Labour MPsScott_P said:
https://politicalscrapbook.net/2017/10/tory-mps-have-taken-much-money-from-russia-today-than-labour-mps/0
