The only 3 point lead isn't just driven by Corbyn. It's driven by Brexit loons - hence May's desire to hurl Britain over the cliff to retain their votes. Once we are hurled off and the economy tanks those voters will go back to UKIP - the failure to deliver the Promised Land obviously the Tories fault. So they'll go back to a UKIP party probably led on 2019 by Robert Kilroy-Silk
My dad is a Brexiteer, he’ll never admit he made a mistake by voting Leave. He wants the hardest Brexit possible, and sees Europe and Europeans as ‘bad’.
My dad is similar , but for him it is immigration and taking back control. I keep telling him reading the Daily Mail everyday and watching Sky news constantly is bad for his health.
My dad is also big on limiting immigration. It’s as if he thinks that if there were no immigrants from Europe, that everything would be fine and dandy in the country. Although my dad doesn’t read the DM and watch Sky News (that’s my grandad who, is also a Brexiteer). My grandad reads The Sun as well!
This seems a reasonable summary of quite a few people I spoke to whilst campaigning for Remain last year. Immigration is the country's No.1 problem, they say, and so get rid of that and we are well on our way again.
TBH I’m not sure what sort of immigration is the problem. Are the East Europeans the straw which broke the camel’s back? After all, immigration from the Commonwealth won’t be affected. Or is there something not being said.
I get the feeling that this country has a collective breakdown every generation over the latest set of immigrants which come to the country. It happened with my grandparents (from the Caribbean), it happened with Ugandan Asians, and now it’s happening with Eastern Europeans and other groups of immigrants.
Those from Australia and New Zealand don’t tend to be seen as ‘immigrants’ in the same way the above mentioned groups are.
Totally agree.My father lives in a wealthy area of York hardly any new immigration into the area.However he always comments about his concern when he goes to visit my daughter s in London and Leeds.
That’s another thing. A lot of those who complain about immigration always seem to live in areas where there are few immigrants.
The only 3 point lead isn't just driven by Corbyn. It's driven by Brexit loons - hence May's desire to hurl Britain over the cliff to retain their votes. Once we are hurled off and the economy tanks those voters will go back to UKIP - the failure to deliver the Promised Land obviously the Tories fault. So they'll go back to a UKIP party probably led on 2019 by Robert Kilroy-Silk
My dad is a Brexiteer, he’ll never admit he made a mistake by voting Leave. He wants the hardest Brexit possible, and sees Europe and Europeans as ‘bad’.
My dad is similar , but for him it is immigration and taking back control. I keep telling him reading the Daily Mail everyday and watching Sky news constantly is bad for his health.
My dad is also big on limiting immigration. It’s as if he thinks that if there were no immigrants from Europe, that everything would be fine and dandy in the country. Although my dad doesn’t read the DM and watch Sky News (that’s my grandad who, is also a Brexiteer). My grandad reads The Sun as well!
This seems a reasonable summary of quite a few people I spoke to whilst campaigning for Remain last year. Immigration is the country's No.1 problem, they say, and so get rid of that and we are well on our way again.
TBH I’m not sure what sort of immigration is the problem. Are the East Europeans the straw which broke the camel’s back? After all, immigration from the Commonwealth won’t be affected. Or is there something not being said.
I get the feeling that this country has a collective breakdown every generation over the latest set of immigrants which come to the country. It happened with my grandparents (from the Caribbean), it happened with Ugandan Asians, and now it’s happening with Eastern Europeans and other groups of immigrants.
Those from Australia and New Zealand don’t tend to be seen as ‘immigrants’ in the same way the above mentioned groups are.
Totally agree.My father lives in a wealthy area of York hardly any new immigration into the area.However he always comments about his concern when he goes to visit my daughter s in London and Leeds.
That’s another thing. A lot of those who complain about immigration always seem to live in areas where there are few immigrants.
The only 3 point lead isn't just driven by Corbyn. It's driven by Brexit loons - hence May's desire to hurl Britain over the cliff to retain their votes. Once we are hurled off and the economy tanks those voters will go back to UKIP - the failure to deliver the Promised Land obviously the Tories fault. So they'll go back to a UKIP party probably led on 2019 by Robert Kilroy-Silk
My dad is a Brexiteer, he’ll never admit he made a mistake by voting Leave. He wants the hardest Brexit possible, and sees Europe and Europeans as ‘bad’.
My dad is similar , but for him it is immigration and taking back control. I keep telling him reading the Daily Mail everyday and watching Sky news constantly is bad for his health.
My dad is also big on limiting immigration. It’s as if he thinks that if there were no immigrants from Europe, that everything would be fine and dandy in the country. Although my dad doesn’t read the DM and watch Sky News (that’s my grandad who, is also a Brexiteer). My grandad reads The Sun as well!
This seems a reasonable summary of quite a few people I spoke to whilst campaigning for Remain last year. Immigration is the country's No.1 problem, they say, and so get rid of that and we are well on our way again.
TBH I’m not sure what sort of immigration is the problem. Are the East Europeans the straw which broke the camel’s back? After all, immigration from the Commonwealth won’t be affected. Or is there something not being said.
I get the feeling that this country has a collective breakdown every generation over the latest set of immigrants which come to the country. It happened with my grandparents (from the Caribbean), it happened with Ugandan Asians, and now it’s happening with Eastern Europeans and other groups of immigrants.
Those from Australia and New Zealand don’t tend to be seen as ‘immigrants’ in the same way the above mentioned groups are.
Totally agree.My father lives in a wealthy area of York hardly any new immigration into the area.However he always comments about his concern when he goes to visit my daughter s in London and Leeds.
That’s another thing. A lot of those who praise the virtues of immigration always seem to live in areas where there are few immigrants.
Dr. Prasannan, I presume that indefatigable programme is ongoing?
Ms. Apocalypse, that's a bit obvious, though. Places with migrants will have migrants answering such surveys, those who don't want non-British culture (whether of the different but lovely or different and barbaric variety) will likely have left, and those who don't mind change will have remained.
Mrs May must wake up every morning and thank the lord for Jeremy Corbyn.
How Labour aren't 15 points up right now is a mystery. Given the press she is getting the fact that voters still believe she would make a better PM than Corbyn tells you all you really need to know.
But the Corbynista wont hear of it. They've already started this morning on Hodges timeline, saying things like 'fake polls', when the campaign starts we'll put on 20 points etc etc
This comment could just as easily have been made eight months ago, refererring to one of Hodges' boring rants then. And it was true - the twitter youths with pro wrestlers for profile pictures called it better than people paid handsomely to be experts on British politics. 'Eat the book' still makes me chuckle.
Those who have lived a little are fully aware that Corbyn will be a disaster compared to the bumbling May. Whilst things are relatively rosy with the economy Corbyn's attack lines seem rather toothless, he needs that Project Fear recession to hurry up.
May is wise to keep Boris on board for now despite the polling, until he does something truly bad he's better kept inside the cabinet than potentially unleashing hell on the backbenches.
Interesting reaction from the Zoomers, but nobody has pointed out the potential upside.
If he has his own shows on RT and LBC, is it just possible the BBC will find less airtime for him?
Some politicians get addicted to the exposure they have been given, and are unable to retire gracefully.
Indeed, though some get their addiction fed more easily than others.
Big Gord getting some top quality, self exculpatory gear from the state broadcaster at this very moment.
It really doesn’t look good for Alex to take a sackful of Roubles though, does it?
I’ve always disagreed with him but had a grudging respect for what he did for his party and the wider independence movement - but now he comes across as a traitor to his own cause, especially given the context of the wider issues about Russia and politics at the moment.
Anyone who thinks he's doing it for the cash hasn't much of a clue.
Given the number of pensions he has that's hardly surprising.....
The only 3 point lead isn't just driven by Corbyn. It's driven by Brexit loons - hence May's desire to hurl Britain over the cliff to retain their votes. Once we are hurled off and the economy tanks those voters will go back to UKIP - the failure to deliver the Promised Land obviously the Tories fault. So they'll go back to a UKIP party probably led on 2019 by Robert Kilroy-Silk
My dad is a Brexiteer, he’ll never admit he made a mistake by voting Leave. He wants the hardest Brexit possible, and sees Europe and Europeans as ‘bad’.
My dad is similar , but for him it is immigration and taking back control. I keep telling him reading the Daily Mail everyday and watching Sky news constantly is bad for his health.
My dad is also big on limiting immigration. It’s as if he thinks that if there were no immigrants from Europe, that everything would be fine and dandy in the country. Although my dad doesn’t read the DM and watch Sky News (that’s my grandad who, is also a Brexiteer). My grandad reads The Sun as well!
This seems a reasonable summary of quite a few people I spoke to whilst campaigning for Remain last year. Immigration is the country's No.1 problem, they say, and so get rid of that and we are well on our way again.
TBH I’m not sure what sort of immigration is the problem. Are the East Europeans the straw which broke the camel’s back? After all, immigration from the Commonwealth won’t be affected. Or is there something not being said.
I get the feeling that this country has a collective breakdown every generation over the latest set of immigrants which come to the country. It happened with my grandparents (from the Caribbean), it happened with Ugandan Asians, and now it’s happening with Eastern Europeans and other groups of immigrants.
Those from Australia and New Zealand don’t tend to be seen as ‘immigrants’ in the same way the above mentioned groups are.
Totally agree.My father lives in a wealthy area of York hardly any new immigration into the area.However he always comments about his concern when he goes to visit my daughter s in London and Leeds.
snip
Corrected it for you
Not really. Those who are pro-immigration tend to live in cities such as London where there are loads of immigrants. I live just outside of London, am pro-immigration, and meet immigrants on a daily/weekly basis.
Hodges was a relatively interesting commentator when Ed M was leader. But since May 2015 he’s gone a bit haywire. I get the feeling that for him it’s full on Blairism or bust. He can’t make any compromises with those more to the left of him at all.
He is partly against Corbyn because he doesn't believe he can win, as far as I can see. But I'd say the main reason these days is the party attitude to anti-semitism.
His issue with Corbyn goes beyond electability and the issues with anti-semitism. Hodges has a hardline preference for Blairism and is only willingly to support centrist Labour candidates. Much of his commentary on Corbyn isn’t all that different from his commentary on Ed M, despite one having a director of strategy and communications who is allegedly a Stalin sympathiser and the other working for New Labour.
And John Rentoul’s recent tweet sums up exactly what I’m talking about re Blairites like Hodgeshttps://twitter.com/johnrentoul/status/928910117906669569 Yes, Jeremy Corbyn is all Gordon Brown’s and Ed Miliband’s fault. Give me a break. Say you what you like, but Gordon Brown and Ed M’s politics are perfectly legitimate and have a place in Labour. Blairites cannot complain about Corbynista intolerance and then express that same intolerance in relation to only being able to deal with pure Blairite centrism. Corbyn is a product of Blair, and of the inability of Labour centrists to not only compromise with the Soft Left but move on from New Labour and realise it is no longer represents a ‘modern’ vision of Britain.
The Labour Party is in any case incapable of being the vehicle for such reform, in any meaningful or successful way. They are centralisers to their core.
The only 3 point lead isn't just driven by Corbyn. It's driven by Brexit loons - hence May's desire to hurl Britain over the cliff to retain their votes. Once we are hurled off and the economy tanks those voters will go back to UKIP - the failure to deliver the Promised Land obviously the Tories fault. So they'll go back to a UKIP party probably led on 2019 by Robert Kilroy-Silk
My dad is a Brexiteer, he’ll never admit he made a mistake by voting Leave. He wants the hardest Brexit possible, and sees Europe and Europeans as ‘bad’.
My dad is similar , but for him it is immigration and taking back control. I keep telling him reading the Daily Mail everyday and watching Sky news constantly is bad for his health.
My dad is also big on limiting immigration. It’s as if he thinks that if there were no immigrants from Europe, that everything would be fine and dandy in the country. Although my dad doesn’t read the DM and watch Sky News (that’s my grandad who, is also a Brexiteer). My grandad reads The Sun as well!
This seems a reasonable summary of quite a few people I spoke to whilst campaigning for Remain last year. Immigration is the country's No.1 problem, they say, and so get rid of that and we are well on our way again.
TBH I’m not sure what sort of immigration is the problem. Are the East Europeans the straw which broke the camel’s back? After all, immigration from the Commonwealth won’t be affected. Or is there something not being said.
I get the feeling that this country has a collective breakdown every generation over the latest set of immigrants wmmigrants.
Those from Australia and New Zealand don’t tend to be seen as ‘immigrants’ in the same way the above mentioned groups are.
Totally agree.My father lives in a wealthy area of York hardly any new immigration into the area.However he always comments about his concern when he goes to visit my daughter s in London and Leeds.
snip
Corrected it for you
Not really. Those who are pro-immigration tend to live in cities such as London where there are loads of immigrants. I live just outside of London, am pro-immigration, and meet immigrants on a daily/weekly basis.
I was thinking in terms of people like Billy Bragg, who no longer lives anywhere near east London.
The first lesson that politicians need to learn is arithmetic.
The second is not sneering at people who fly flags....
I bet you do not live next to someone with their house covered with the flags of st George.If you did what would be your thoughts honestly.
I live in a two up two down terrace - come large football tournaments there are frequently flags flying nearby. No problems here.
No I meant outside national football tournaments.
If you have a English flag outside the house where I live,you probably have your Windows smashed in.
What do you make of that ?
Not good Tyke.As I keep saying it is easy to be Liberal about immigration in York as there hardly is any .However in many west Yorkshire areas there is in many cases self enforced apartheid .My wife comes from Keighley , where there is white schools and Asian schools ,both live in separate areas and never mix.Around Keighley where I know it is white flight if you can afford it to Skipton.
Mrs May must wake up every morning and thank the lord for Jeremy Corbyn.
How Labour aren't 15 points up right now is a mystery. Given the press she is getting the fact that voters still believe she would make a better PM than Corbyn tells you all you really need to know.
But the Corbynista wont hear of it. They've already started this morning on Hodges timeline, saying things like 'fake polls', when the campaign starts we'll put on 20 points etc etc
This comment could just as easily have been made eight months ago, refererring to one of Hodges' boring rants then. And it was true - the twitter youths with pro wrestlers for profile pictures called it better than people paid handsomely to be experts on British politics. 'Eat the book' still makes me chuckle.
Corbyn still lost, most of his supporters expected him to win.
Theresa May has an impregnable firewall while Corbyn is in charge. It's time Labour stopped patting itself on the back and addressed this. There's nothing they can do in policy terms because everyone knows what a Corbyn government will look like and it scares too many people.
That impregnable firewall was there in the spring. It didn't work and wasn't impregnable.
More Goldilocks Polling. Government kept on the tightest of leashes and certainly won't risk another early election stunt on those numbers. Labour not doing better because they've don't deserve to and with those numbers the government won't disintegrate. The electorate knows what it's doing and it's working.
I suspect we'll see no big polling shift till there is a deal/no deal for the public to make a judgement on and that will require Labour to get off the fence.
In short even thin ice can be remarkably stable until it breaks.
It does lead to the question: when Brexit happens in March 2019, what will be there to keep it pulling in the Remainers? "If you thought Brexit was the UK taking a monstrous risk, then you'll love our New Venezuela economic manifesto...."
Remainers are going to vote Anything but Tory, and that means mostly Labour. The Tories have lostt that demographic for a generation.
+1.
The figures from that Fareham by-election last night suggest that former UKIP supporters switched straight to LibDem. Some will have done, having been anti-Tories from the start. But the greater switches were probably UKIP->Tory and Tory->LibDem.
The Tories are acquiring a new demographic, older, less educated and later in the census alphabet than their traditional core (edit/ OK, not so much older). But I don't see that the party is yet well equipped to represent these people, particularly on economic issues.
I used to live in Stubbington, Fareham. The story is a little complicated. The UKIP councillor was a previous Tory and switched to UKIP, he was even spoken of as a future leader of UKIP (although wren't they all?). He later switched back to Tory while still a councillor. He recently resigned causing the by-election. So although it's officially a LibDem gain from UKIP, it was really a LibDem gain from Tory.
This is from the victorious LibDem's website: "The UKIP councillor who replaced Jim switched parties to the Conservatives last year, then resigned suddenly from the Council halfway through his term of office as Deputy Mayor."
The ward reverted to its type, a Con v Lib Dem marginal.
YouGov comes as no surprise. Jeremy Corbyn is still a great asset to the Conservative party.Despite all the sneering on Sky News, BBC and Channel Four the electorate just want Mrs May to get on with it. They elected her only five months ago and though Brexit is a worry the far greater concern in the minds of the people is what would happen to the economy if an orthodox Marxist was Chancellor. The flight of capital and investment from the UK would be enormous.
Ooh, McDonnell's been upgraded to an 'orthodox' Marxist now. Return of the Kautskyites.
The only 3 point lead isn't just driven by Corbyn. It's driven by Brexit loons - hence May's desire to hurl Britain over the cliff to retain their votes. Once we are hurled off and the economy tanks those voters will go back to UKIP - the failure to deliver the Promised Land obviously the Tories fault. So they'll go back to a UKIP party probably led on 2019 by Robert Kilroy-Silk
My dad is a Brexiteer, he’ll never admit he made a mistake by voting Leave. He wants the hardest Brexit possible, and sees Europe and Europeans as ‘bad’.
My dad is similar , but for him it is immigration and taking back control. I keep telling him reading the Daily Mail everyday and watching Sky news constantly is bad for his health.
My dad is also big on limiting immigration. It’s as if he thinks that if there were no immigrants from Europe, that everything would be fine and dandy in the country. Although my dad doesn’t read the DM and watch Sky News (that’s my grandad who, is also a Brexiteer). My grandad reads The Sun as well!
This seems a reasonable summary of quite a few people I spoke to whilst campaigning for Remain last year. Immigration is the country's No.1 problem, they say, and so get rid of that and we are well on our way again.
TBH I’m not sure what sort of immigration is the problem. Are the East Europeans the straw which broke the camel’s back? After all, immigration from the Commonwealth won’t be affected. Or is there something not being said.
I get the feeling that this country has a collective breakdown every generation over the latest set of immigrants which come to the country. It happened with my grandparents (from the Caribbean), it happened with Ugandan Asians, and now it’s happening with Eastern Europeans and other groups of immigrants.
Those from Australia and New Zealand don’t tend to be seen as ‘immigrants’ in the same way the above mentioned groups are.
Totally agree.My father lives in a wealthy area of York hardly any new immigration into the area.However he always comments about his concern when he goes to visit my daughter s in London and Leeds.
That’s another thing. A lot of those who complain about immigration always seem to live in areas where there are few immigrants.
Turn it round,them who love poor mass immigration always seem to live in majority white middle class area's or on here living abroad.
YouGov comes as no surprise. Jeremy Corbyn is still a great asset to the Conservative party.Despite all the sneering on Sky News, BBC and Channel Four the electorate just want Mrs May to get on with it. They elected her only five months ago and though Brexit is a worry the far greater concern in the minds of the people is what would happen to the economy if an orthodox Marxist was Chancellor. The flight of capital and investment from the UK would be enormous.
Ooh, McDonnell's been upgraded to an 'orthodox' Marxist now. Return of the Kautskyites.
You've got to admit, if you could pick a Shadow Chancellor while your party is on the ropes it would be someone out of touch and grating like McDonnell. A safer option like Starmer would be a real warning shot.
Theresa May has an impregnable firewall while Corbyn is in charge. It's time Labour stopped patting itself on the back and addressed this. There's nothing they can do in policy terms because everyone knows what a Corbyn government will look like and it scares too many people.
That impregnable firewall was there in the spring.
More Goldilocks Polling. Government kept on the tightest of leashes and certainly won't risk another early election stunt on those numbers. Labour not doing better because they've don't deserve to and with those numbers the government won't disintegrate. The electorate knows what it's doing and it's working.
I suspect we'll see no big polling shift till there is a deal/no deal for the public to make a judgement on and that will require Labour to get off the fence.
In short even thin ice can be remarkably stable until it breaks.
It does lead to the question: when Brexit happens in March 2019, what will be there to keep it pulling in the Remainers? "If you thought Brexit was the UK taking a monstrous risk, then you'll love our New Venezuela economic manifesto...."
Remainers are going to vote Anything but Tory, and that means mostly Labour. The Tories have lostt that demographic for a generation.
+1.
The figures from that Fareham by-election last night suggest that former UKIP supporters switched straight to LibDem. Some will have done, having been anti-Tories from the start. But the greater switches were probably UKIP->Tory and Tory->LibDem.
The Tories are acquiring a new demographic, older, less educated and later in the census alphabet than their traditional core (edit/ OK, not so much older). But I don't see that the party is yet well equipped to represent these people, particularly on economic issues.
I used to live in Stubbington, Fareham. The story is a little complicated. The UKIP councillor was a previous Tory and switched to UKIP, he was even spoken of as a future leader of UKIP (although wren't they all?). He later switched back to Tory while still a councillor. He recently resigned causing the by-election. So although it's officially a LibDem gain from UKIP, it was really a LibDem gain from Tory.
This is from the victorious LibDem's website: "The UKIP councillor who replaced Jim switched parties to the Conservatives last year, then resigned suddenly from the Council halfway through his term of office as Deputy Mayor."
The ward reverted to its type, a Con v Lib Dem marginal.
55% to 35% doesn't look very marginal. Especially with the winning party at 6% nationally.
The only 3 point lead isn't just driven by Corbyn. It's driven by Brexit loons - hence May's desire to hurl Britain over the cliff to retain their votes. Once we are hurled off and the economy tanks those voters will go back to UKIP - the failure to deliver the Promised Land obviously the Tories fault. So they'll go back to a UKIP party probably led on 2019 by Robert Kilroy-Silk
My dad is a Brexiteer, he’ll never admit he made a mistake by voting Leave. He wants the hardest Brexit possible, and sees Europe and Europeans as ‘bad’.
My dad is similar , but for him it is immigration and taking back control. I keep telling him reading the Daily Mail everyday and watching Sky news constantly is bad for his health.
I get the feeling that this country has a collective breakdown every generation over the latest set of immigrants which come to the country. It happened with my grandparents (from the Caribbean), it happened with Ugandan Asians, and now it’s happening with Eastern Europeans and other groups of immigrants.
Those from Australia and New Zealand don’t tend to be seen as ‘immigrants’ in the same way the above mentioned groups are.
Totally agree.My father lives in a wealthy area of York hardly any new immigration into the area.However he always comments about his concern when he goes to visit my daughter s in London and Leeds.
That’s another thing. A lot of those who complain about immigration always seem to live in areas where there are few immigrants.
Turn it round,them who love poor mass immigration always seen to live in majority white middle class area's or on here living abroad.
Some of those who are most critical about immigration live in other countries.
Mrs May must wake up every morning and thank the lord for Jeremy Corbyn.
How Labour aren't 15 points up right now is a mystery. Given the press she is getting the fact that voters still believe she would make a better PM than Corbyn tells you all you really need to know.
But the Corbynista wont hear of it. They've already started this morning on Hodges timeline, saying things like 'fake polls', when the campaign starts we'll put on 20 points etc etc
This comment could just as easily have been made eight months ago, refererring to one of Hodges' boring rants then. And it was true - the twitter youths with pro wrestlers for profile pictures called it better than people paid handsomely to be experts on British politics. 'Eat the book' still makes me chuckle.
Corbyn still lost, most of his supporters expected him to win.
Which explains why Corbyn supporters were so depressed after the election...
Barely anybody expected him to win. Very few of his supporters expected Labour to do as well as they did. The result was a massive surprise, and a welcome one.
The only 3 point lead isn't just driven by Corbyn. It's driven by Brexit loons - hence May's desire to hurl Britain over the cliff to retain their votes. Once we are hurled off and the economy tanks those voters will go back to UKIP - the failure to deliver the Promised Land obviously the Tories fault. So they'll go back to a UKIP party probably led on 2019 by Robert Kilroy-Silk
e. bad’.
My dad is similar , but for him it is immigration and taking back control. I keep telling him reading the Daily Mail everyday and watching Sky news constantly is bad for his health.
My dad is also big on limiting immigration. It’s as if he thinks that if there were no immigrants from Europe, that everything would be fine and dandy in the country. Although my dad doesn’t read the DM and watch Sky News (that’s my grandad who, is also a Brexiteer). My grandad reads The Sun as well!
This seems a reasonable summary of quite a few people I spoke to whilst campaigning for Remain last year. Immigration is the country's No.1 problem, they say, and so get rid of that and we are well on our way again.
TBH I’m not sure what sort of immigration is the problem. Are the East Europeans the straw which broke the camel’s back? After all, immigration from the Commonwealth won’t be affected. Or is there something not being said.
I get the feeling that this country has a collective breakdown every generation over the latest set of immigrants which come to the country. It happened with my grandparents (from the Caribbean), it happened with Ugandan Asians, and now it’s happening with Eastern Europeans and other groups of immigrants.
Those from Australia and New Zealand don’t tend to be seen as ‘immigrants’ in the same way the above mentioned groups are.
Totally agree.My father lives in a wealthy area of York hardly any new immigration into the area.However he always comments about his concern when he goes to visit my daughter s in London and Leeds.
That’s another thing. A lot of those who complain about immigration always seem to live in areas where there are few immigrants.
Turn it round,them who love poor mass immigration always seem to live in majority white middle class area's or on here living abroad.
But that's not really true, is it? People are most relaxed about it in London, and there is almost nowhere in London that fits your description.
What remains a mystery is the truly appalling polling of the Lib Dems. We are constantly told that both the main parties are lurching towards the extremes in an incompetent way and that more than 40% of the population still oppose Brexit, something supported by both the main parties, with different degrees of enthusiasm.
So where the hell are they? And where's Cable? I can't recall the last time I saw him pontificating on anything. 6%? They could lose a few of their remaining seats at that level.
Wait for the 2018 Maidenhead by-eletion
Did anyone ever get to the bottom of why only 68% of Lib Dem voters went for Remain, compared to 65% of Labour voters? Did the Lib Dems just neglect their voters thinking they must be on board anyway?
Only 30% of LD voters voted Leave compared to 37% of Labour voters
I was surprised the Labour vote for Leave was so low. Many went for UKIP in the last Euro elections while counting as Labour for the purposes of this poll having voted for Ed in 2015. But for a party so wedded to the EU as the Lib Dems 30% or 32% Leave seems relatively high. Any ideas why?
More than six in ten, including half of Remainers and three quarters of Leavers, said they thought the EU was not really trying to get a good deal – “they want to punish the UK and stop other countries wanting to leave”.
The awfulness of each of the two main parties is shoring up the support of the other. Those desperate to see the back of the Conservatives have only one practical option; likewise those desperate to keep Jeremy Corbyn out.
Yep, that’s about the sum of it. First past the post is all about who you dislike less. When it ceases to produce strong, stable governments, it becomes increasingly damaging to national interests - but, crucially, not to party ones.
Right now I find it very hard to imagine voting at the next election.
The fact you cannot even be bothered to vote for Vince Cable's LDs confirms diehard Remainers are defeated and all mouth and no trousers
"Brexit is bad" is not a policy.
Even before the referendum result I said that if Leave won, Remain supporters should leave the field for Leavers to take the helm. Leavers have made the complete balls-up of it that I expected, but that period has not yet come to an end.
What remains a mystery is the truly appalling polling of the Lib Dems. We are constantly told that both the main parties are lurching towards the extremes in an incompetent way and that more than 40% of the population still oppose Brexit, something supported by both the main parties, with different degrees of enthusiasm.
So where the hell are they? And where's Cable? I can't recall the last time I saw him pontificating on anything. 6%? They could lose a few of their remaining seats at that level.
Wait for the 2018 Maidenhead by-eletion
Did anyone ever get to the bottom of why only 68% of Lib Dem voters went for Remain, compared to 65% of Labour voters? Did the Lib Dems just neglect their voters thinking they must be on board anyway?
Only 30% of LD voters voted Leave compared to 37% of Labour voters
I was surprised the Labour vote for Leave was so low. Many went for UKIP in the last Euro elections while counting as Labour for the purposes of this poll having voted for Ed in 2015. But for a party so wedded to the EU as the Lib Dems 30% or 32% Leave seems relatively high. Any ideas why?
Whichever, the question is still the same- 30% or 32% seem high for a party that has so dissolved its identity in the EU. If 30% of UKIP voters went for Remain that would be odd, but the Ashcroft poll has 19/20 going for Leave.
Isn't something happening in poor white areas of london called white flight ?
There is certainly ex-migration from London. But my anecdotal experience is that this is driven by the housing market - people with young families selling up because they need more space than they can ever afford in London, and older people cashing in their property equity as they move toward retirement. That these tend to be mostly white simply reflects the distribution of home ownership, rather than a comment on immigration.
The awfulness of each of the two main parties is shoring up the support of the other. Those desperate to see the back of the Conservatives have only one practical option; likewise those desperate to keep Jeremy Corbyn out.
Yep, that’s about the sum of it. First past the post is all about who you dislike less. When it ceases to produce strong, stable governments, it becomes increasingly damaging to national interests - but, crucially, not to party ones.
Right now I find it very hard to imagine voting at the next election.
The fact you cannot even be bothered to vote for Vince Cable's LDs confirms diehard Remainers are defeated and all mouth and no trousers
I was certainly defeated by Brexit and I prefer skirts so I guess you have me bang to rights!
Mrs May must wake up every morning and thank the lord for Jeremy Corbyn.
How Labour aren't 15 points up right now is a mystery. Given the press she is getting the fact that voters still believe she would make a better PM than Corbyn tells you all you really need to know.
But the Corbynista wont hear of it. They've already started this morning on Hodges timeline, saying things like 'fake polls', when the campaign starts we'll put on 20 points etc etc
This comment could just as easily have been made eight months ago, refererring to one of Hodges' boring rants then. And it was true - the twitter youths with pro wrestlers for profile pictures called it better than people paid handsomely to be experts on British politics. 'Eat the book' still makes me chuckle.
Corbyn still lost, most of his supporters expected him to win.
Theresa May has an impregnable firewall while Corbyn is in charge. It's time Labour stopped patting itself on the back and addressed this. There's nothing they can do in policy terms because everyone knows what a Corbyn government will look like and it scares too many people.
The only way I can see the aspirations of the new Labour voters and the 'anything but Corbyn's' can put an end to this government is for him to resign and throw his weight behing Emily Thornberry.
Prime Minister Emily Thornberry.
Put yourself on tape saying that. Then watch it back 100 times - and digest how much of a mess Labour is in, when Emily Thornberry is thought to be the answer to its woes.
PS Was at the Murder on the Orient Express premiere last week. A monumental waste of effort. Did nobody ask "er...why do we need this?" ?? Well, after her efforts this spring, maybe Theresa May might have.
MM. I asked myself the same question. All I could come up with was that Kenneth Branah's history in theatre tells him there is nothing wrong with a reinterpretation or several. Not that there was much reinterpreting here. He has history of course. Remember Frankenstein Sleuth Cinderella and several Shakespeare plays? A pity really because apart from the story there was a lot to like!
There is nothing wrong with interpretation or even merely making a new version when the old one is still fine. A lot of people simply won't bother going out of their way to watch a really old version of something. Some new versions will be good, some bad, some fresh takes, some repetitive or even shot for shot.
The trouble with a reinterpretation of a whodunnit as well known as this one is that you already know who did it!
Isn't something happening in poor white areas of london called white flight ?
There is certainly ex-migration from London. But my anecdotal experience is that this is driven by the housing market - people with young families selling up because they need more space than they can ever afford in London, and older people cashing in their property equity as they move toward retirement. That these tend to be mostly white simply reflects the distribution of home ownership, rather than a comment on immigration.
I think people aged 35+, starting families, find that the quality of life is simply a lot better outside London, unless they are very well off.
What remains a mystery is the truly appalling polling of the Lib Dems. We are constantly told that both the main parties are lurching towards the extremes in an incompetent way and that more than 40% of the population still oppose Brexit, something supported by both the main parties, with different degrees of enthusiasm.
So where the hell are they? And where's Cable? I can't recall the last time I saw him pontificating on anything. 6%? They could lose a few of their remaining seats at that level.
Wait for the 2018 Maidenhead by-eletion
Did anyone ever get to the bottom of why only 68% of Lib Dem voters went for Remain, compared to 65% of Labour voters? Did the Lib Dems just neglect their voters thinking they must be on board anyway?
Only 30% of LD voters voted Leave compared to 37% of Labour voters
I was surprised the Labour vote for Leave was so low. Many went for UKIP in the last Euro elections while counting as Labour for the purposes of this poll having voted for Ed in 2015. But for a party so wedded to the EU as the Lib Dems 30% or 32% Leave seems relatively high. Any ideas why?
Whichever, the question is still the same- 30% or 32% seem high for a party that has so dissolved its identity in the EU. If 30% of UKIP voters went for Remain that would be odd, but the Ashcroft poll has 19/20 going for Leave.
Suspect they always had a protest vote element. Leave did well to present themselves as anti establishment.
I’d suggest it also somewhat undermines the idea that Corbyn reduced Labour Remainers. If Clegg couldn’t get his own party past 70%...
Isn't something happening in poor white areas of london called white flight ?
There is certainly ex-migration from London. But my anecdotal experience is that this is driven by the housing market - people with young families selling up because they need more space than they can ever afford in London, and older people cashing in their property equity as they move toward retirement. That these tend to be mostly white simply reflects the distribution of home ownership, rather than a comment on immigration.
YouGov comes as no surprise. Jeremy Corbyn is still a great asset to the Conservative party.Despite all the sneering on Sky News, BBC and Channel Four the electorate just want Mrs May to get on with it. They elected her only five months ago and though Brexit is a worry the far greater concern in the minds of the people is what would happen to the economy if an orthodox Marxist was Chancellor. The flight of capital and investment from the UK would be enormous.
Ooh, McDonnell's been upgraded to an 'orthodox' Marxist now. Return of the Kautskyites.
You've got to admit, if you could pick a Shadow Chancellor while your party is on the ropes it would be someone out of touch and grating like McDonnell. A safer option like Starmer would be a real warning shot.
Eh, Starmer might appeal to the 'centrists of a certain age' who this website imagines decides elections. McDonnell's got other qualities, nerve and passion, and a willingness to talk about larger issues than minor technocratic tweaks within very narrow bounds.
But he's not an 'orthodox Marxist' by any means. I was making the point that these terms are flung about by people who have absolutely no idea what they mean. It tickled me that it was so specific - not only a Marxist (whatever that is) but an orthodox Marxist (so not an Austro-Marxist then? Or a Legal Marxist? Or a Bolshevik?)
Isn't something happening in poor white areas of london called white flight ?
There is certainly ex-migration from London. But my anecdotal experience is that this is driven by the housing market - people with young families selling up because they need more space than they can ever afford in London, and older people cashing in their property equity as they move toward retirement. That these tend to be mostly white simply reflects the distribution of home ownership, rather than a comment on immigration.
I think people aged 35+, starting families, find that the quality of life is simply a lot better outside London, unless they are very well off.
Certainly it is with a six figure sum in the bank from having traded a London flat for something bigger and cheaper surrounded by countryside.
What remains a mystery is the truly appalling polling of the Lib Dems. We are constantly told that both the main parties are lurching towards the extremes in an incompetent way and that more than 40% of the population still oppose Brexit, something supported by both the main parties, with different degrees of enthusiasm.
So where the hell are they? And where's Cable? I can't recall the last time I saw him pontificating on anything. 6%? They could lose a few of their remaining seats at that level.
Wait for the 2018 Maidenhead by-eletion
Did anyone ever get to the bottom of why only 68% of Lib Dem voters went for Remain, compared to 65% of Labour voters? Did the Lib Dems just neglect their voters thinking they must be on board anyway?
Only 30% of LD voters voted Leave compared to 37% of Labour voters
I was surprised the Labour vote for Leave was so low. Many went for UKIP in the last Euro elections while counting as Labour for the purposes of this poll having voted for Ed in 2015. But for a party so wedded to the EU as the Lib Dems 30% or 32% Leave seems relatively high. Any ideas why?
Because a lot of voters are not as obsessed with Europe as the Tories think they are. Their vote is driven by other considerations.
What remains a mystery is the truly appalling polling of the Lib Dems. We are constantly told that both the main parties are lurching towards the extremes in an incompetent way and that more than 40% of the population still oppose Brexit, something supported by both the main parties, with different degrees of enthusiasm.
So where the hell are they? And where's Cable? I can't recall the last time I saw him pontificating on anything. 6%? They could lose a few of their remaining seats at that level.
Wait for the 2018 Maidenhead by-eletion
Did anyone ever get to the bottom of why only 68% of Lib Dem voters went for Remain, compared to 65% of Labour voters? Did the Lib Dems just neglect their voters thinking they must be on board anyway?
Only 30% of LD voters voted Leave compared to 37% of Labour voters
I was surprised the Labour vote for Leave was so low. Many went for UKIP in the last Euro elections while counting as Labour for the purposes of this poll having voted for Ed in 2015. But for a party so wedded to the EU as the Lib Dems 30% or 32% Leave seems relatively high. Any ideas why?
Whichever, the question is still the same- 30% or 32% seem high for a party that has so dissolved its identity in the EU. If 30% of UKIP voters went for Remain that would be odd, but the Ashcroft poll has 19/20 going for Leave.
Suspect they always had a protest vote element. Leave did well to present themselves as anti establishment.
I’d suggest it also somewhat undermines the idea that Corbyn reduced Labour Remainers. If Clegg couldn’t get his own party past 70%...
Many ‘Liberals’ regard the idea of a somewhat protectionist EYU as anethema.
Isn't something happening in poor white areas of london called white flight ?
There is certainly ex-migration from London. But my anecdotal experience is that this is driven by the housing market - people with young families selling up because they need more space than they can ever afford in London, and older people cashing in their property equity as they move toward retirement. That these tend to be mostly white simply reflects the distribution of home ownership, rather than a comment on immigration.
My anecdotal experience suggests the opposite. Many of the WWC customers I meet on a daily basis have moved away from London areas like Croydon and Streatham because they dislike the demographic changes intensely.
Isn't something happening in poor white areas of london called white flight ?
There is certainly ex-migration from London. But my anecdotal experience is that this is driven by the housing market - people with young families selling up because they need more space than they can ever afford in London, and older people cashing in their property equity as they move toward retirement. That these tend to be mostly white simply reflects the distribution of home ownership, rather than a comment on immigration.
My anecdotal experience suggests the opposite. Many of the WWC customers I meet on a daily basis have moved away from London areas like Croydon and Streatham because they dislike the demographic changes intensely.
Nevertheless polls of existing Londoners don't show huge concern about immigration, London voted remain, UKIP always polled very poorly here except in Havering.
The awfulness of each of the two main parties is shoring up the support of the other. Those desperate to see the back of the Conservatives have only one practical option; likewise those desperate to keep Jeremy Corbyn out.
Yep, that’s about the sum of it. First past the post is all about who you dislike less. When it ceases to produce strong, stable governments, it becomes increasingly damaging to national interests - but, crucially, not to party ones.
Right now I find it very hard to imagine voting at the next election.
The fact you cannot even be bothered to vote for Vince Cable's LDs confirms diehard Remainers are defeated and all mouth and no trousers
"Brexit is bad" is not a policy.
Even before the referendum result I said that if Leave won, Remain supporters should leave the field for Leavers to take the helm. Leavers have made the complete balls-up of it that I expected, but that period has not yet come to an end.
Isn't something happening in poor white areas of london called white flight ?
There is certainly ex-migration from London. But my anecdotal experience is that this is driven by the housing market - people with young families selling up because they need more space than they can ever afford in London, and older people cashing in their property equity as they move toward retirement. That these tend to be mostly white simply reflects the distribution of home ownership, rather than a comment on immigration.
My anecdotal experience suggests the opposite. Many of the WWC customers I meet on a daily basis have moved away from London areas like Croydon and Streatham because they dislike the demographic changes intensely.
Nevertheless polls of existing Londoners don't show huge concern about immigration, London voted remain, UKIP always polled very poorly here except in Havering.
Yes. I'm sure that's so. But then London has a lot more migrants than other areas.
What remains a mystery is the truly appalling polling of the Lib Dems. We are constantly told that both the main parties are lurching towards the extremes in an incompetent way and that more than 40% of the population still oppose Brexit, something supported by both the main parties, with different degrees of enthusiasm.
So where the hell are they? And where's Cable? I can't recall the last time I saw him pontificating on anything. 6%? They could lose a few of their remaining seats at that level.
Wait for the 2018 Maidenhead by-eletion
Did anyone ever get to the bottom of why only 68% of Lib Dem voters went for Remain, compared to 65% of Labour voters? Did the Lib Dems just neglect their voters thinking they must be on board anyway?
Only 30% of LD voters voted Leave compared to 37% of Labour voters
I was surprised the Labour vote for Leave was so low. Many went for UKIP in the last Euro elections while counting as Labour for the purposes of this poll having voted for Ed in 2015. But for a party so wedded to the EU as the Lib Dems 30% or 32% Leave seems relatively high. Any ideas why?
Because a lot of voters are not as obsessed with Europe as the Tories think they are. Their vote is driven by other considerations.
Definitely. But the issue of the referendum campaign was to convince people their main considerations would best be served by either Remaining or Leaving. I would have expected LD's to reach their supporters better on this.
"This research claims that ethnic change stimulates higher UKIP support while higher levels of established minorities predict lower UKIP support. A similar pattern characterises immigration attitudes in Britain.... white UKIP voters in minority-dense wards are no more likely to leave them, or to move to whiter wards, than their white liberal neighbours....
This research also breaks new ground by suggesting that the threat effects of demographic change fade over time, possibly because local white residents become accustomed to immigrant minorities, are more likely to have positive contact with them, or come to perceive immigrant groups as having a legitimate place in society... These results suggest that if the rate of ethnic change declines in the West in the future, opposition to immigration and support for the populist right could similarly abate."
Dr. Prasannan, I presume that indefatigable programme is ongoing?
Ms. Apocalypse, that's a bit obvious, though. Places with migrants will have migrants answering such surveys, those who don't want non-British culture (whether of the different but lovely or different and barbaric variety) will likely have left, and those who don't mind change will have remained.
Morning, Mr.D. Did you notice Hamilton's interview - which suggests he isn't minded to help Bottas too much "Valtteri would want to achieve on his own merits..." ?
The awfulness of each of the two main parties is shoring up the support of the other. Those desperate to see the back of the Conservatives have only one practical option; likewise those desperate to keep Jeremy Corbyn out.
Yep, that’s about the sum of it. First past the post is all about who you dislike less. When it ceases to produce strong, stable governments, it becomes increasingly damaging to national interests - but, crucially, not to party ones.
Right now I find it very hard to imagine voting at the next election.
The fact you cannot even be bothered to vote for Vince Cable's LDs confirms diehard Remainers are defeated and all mouth and no trousers
I was certainly defeated by Brexit and I prefer skirts so I guess you have me bang to rights!
In any case, I believe the saying is actually "all mouth and trousers"... but there again, it is HYUFD...
The first lesson that politicians need to learn is arithmetic.
The second is not sneering at people who fly flags....
I bet you do not live next to someone with their house covered with the flags of st George.If you did what would be your thoughts honestly.
I live in a two up two down terrace - come large football tournaments there are frequently flags flying nearby. No problems here.
No I meant outside national football tournaments.
If you have a English flag outside the house where I live,you probably have your Windows smashed in.
What do you make of that ?
You should move to Leicester. Flying English flags during football tournaments is common across the city here, including in predominantly Asian and Somali areas.
The first lesson that politicians need to learn is arithmetic.
The second is not sneering at people who fly flags....
I bet you do not live next to someone with their house covered with the flags of st George.If you did what would be your thoughts honestly.
I live in a two up two down terrace - come large football tournaments there are frequently flags flying nearby. No problems here.
No I meant outside national football tournaments.
If you have a English flag outside the house where I live,you probably have your Windows smashed in.
What do you make of that ?
You should move to Leicester. Flying English flags during football tournaments is common across the city here, including in predominantly Asian and Somali areas.
Yes. Sport (and especially football -- sorry, MD) has done more to unite communities than politicians.
Isn't something happening in poor white areas of london called white flight ?
'White flight' is a horrible expression. I picture hordes of pot bellied shirtless football fans waddling their flabby bodies past lines of slim well dressed Mediterranians on the New kings road.
The first lesson that politicians need to learn is arithmetic.
The second is not sneering at people who fly flags....
I bet you do not live next to someone with their house covered with the flags of st George.If you did what would be your thoughts honestly.
I live in a two up two down terrace - come large football tournaments there are frequently flags flying nearby. No problems here.
No I meant outside national football tournaments.
If you have a English flag outside the house where I live,you probably have your Windows smashed in.
What do you make of that ?
You should move to Leicester. Flying English flags during football tournaments is common across the city here, including in predominantly Asian and Somali areas.
Including in predominantly Asian and Somalia areas.
Isn't something happening in poor white areas of london called white flight ?
'White flight' is a horrible expression. I picture hordes of pot bellied shirtless football fans waddling their flabby bodies past lines of slim well dressed Mediterranians on the New kings road.
The real danger of the #stopbrexit campaign is that the EU will concentrate on trying to persuade us not to leave rather than focusing on the leaving deal - resulting in a worse deal all round.
Though if the EU put genuine control of FoM on the table (not "emergency brakes" etc.) in a "stay" offer I wouldn't care to speculate as to how that would play out.
The real danger of the #stopbrexit campaign is that the EU will concentrate on trying to persuade us not to leave rather than focusing on the leaving deal - resulting in a worse deal all round.
Though if the EU put genuine control of FoM on the table (not "emergency brakes" etc.) in a "stay" offer I wouldn't care to speculate as to how that would play out.
The real danger of the #stopbrexit campaign is that the EU will concentrate on trying to persuade us not to leave rather than focusing on the leaving deal - resulting in a worse deal all round.
Though if the EU put genuine control of FoM on the table (not "emergency brakes" etc.) in a "stay" offer I wouldn't care to speculate as to how that would play out.
Perhaps if Leavers might have made the slightest effort to reach out to former Remain supporters, there wouldn't be such strong continuing hostility towards Brexit among those who voted Remain. This continuing attempt by many Leavers to portray those who are hostile to Brexit as the enemy within is unedifying and counterproductive.
Though if the EU put genuine control of FoM on the table (not "emergency brakes" etc.) in a "stay" offer I wouldn't care to speculate as to how that would play out.
And that is exactly what @tombradby is currently speculating on.
I think we are collectively too proud as a nation to change our minds. It would be quite ironic if the EU gave us an offer that would have won the original referendum but was insufficient to change our position given the result.
Mr. Price, I agree (Bradby's speculation is somewhat similar to my own the other day when contemplating a potential remain result). However, would we have a second referendum?
That's currently 6 on Ladbrokes. To be a full member at the start of 2020 is 4.5.
Though if the EU put genuine control of FoM on the table (not "emergency brakes" etc.) in a "stay" offer I wouldn't care to speculate as to how that would play out.
And that is exactly what @tombradby is currently speculating on.
I think we are collectively too proud as a nation to change our minds. It would be quite ironic if the EU gave us an offer that would have won the original referendum but was insufficient to change our position given the result.
I think it highly unlikely the EU would make such an offer. It's very hard for them to agree to anything - and that would be undermining one of the four freedoms.
I think it very likely that there will be a reconsider campaign. But they will only be successful in getting a vote, if large numbers of people have changed their minds.
The awfulness of each of the two main parties is shoring up the support of the other. Those desperate to see the back of the Conservatives have only one practical option; likewise those desperate to keep Jeremy Corbyn out.
Yep, that’s about the sum of it. First past the post is all about who you dislike less. When it ceases to produce strong, stable governments, it becomes increasingly damaging to national interests - but, crucially, not to party ones.
Right now I find it very hard to imagine voting at the next election.
The fact you cannot even be bothered to vote for Vince Cable's LDs confirms diehard Remainers are defeated and all mouth and no trousers
I was certainly defeated by Brexit and I prefer skirts so I guess you have me bang to rights!
In any case, I believe the saying is actually "all mouth and trousers"... but there again, it is HYUFD...
Maybe the Tory version derives from Public Schoolboy punishments where Sprockton-Minor has to sit in class in his underpants for not getting the School Bully's homework done in time. Ripping Yarns sort of stuff....
The first lesson that politicians need to learn is arithmetic.
The second is not sneering at people who fly flags....
I bet you do not live next to someone with their house covered with the flags of st George.If you did what would be your thoughts honestly.
I live in a two up two down terrace - come large football tournaments there are frequently flags flying nearby. No problems here.
No I meant outside national football tournaments.
If you have a English flag outside the house where I live,you probably have your Windows smashed in.
What do you make of that ?
You should move to Leicester. Flying English flags during football tournaments is common across the city here, including in predominantly Asian and Somali areas.
Including in predominantly Asian and Somalia areas.
Leicester,more flight then ?
There are definite areas where particular ethnic groups live, the Belgrave road is very Hindu, the Evington rd quite Muslim, St Margaret's s rather Somali, but all areas are mixed. I buy my veg curry from a Hindu takeaway near the Evington mosque, and often stop by the wine shop next door. Leicester is pretty relaxed about these things. Next to my seats at the Football is an Asian family of 4, of whom the fifty year old mum is the most fanatical fan.
I am genuinely sorry that things are not so congenial in Bradford. Getting to know the neighbours is the best way of breaking predjudices.
“Take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus. There’s just nothing immoral or illegal here. Maybe just a little bit unusual.”
— Alabama state auditor Jim Zeigler (R), quoted by the Washington Examiner, defending Alabama U.S. Senate candidate Roy Moore (R), who is accused of initiating sexual relations with teenage girls.
The real danger of the #stopbrexit campaign is that the EU will concentrate on trying to persuade us not to leave rather than focusing on the leaving deal - resulting in a worse deal all round.
Though if the EU put genuine control of FoM on the table (not "emergency brakes" etc.) in a "stay" offer I wouldn't care to speculate as to how that would play out.
Perhaps if Leavers might have made the slightest effort to reach out to former Remain supporters, there wouldn't be such strong continuing hostility towards Brexit among those who voted Remain. This continuing attempt by many Leavers to portray those who are hostile to Brexit as the enemy within is unedifying and counterproductive.
I don't see those seeking to stop Brexit as the enemy within: they of course have every right. I think that - assuming it fails - it isn't helpful to our overall negotiating position.
Given the nature of the campaign and the practicalities of negotiation I think growing hostility from some Remainers is totally inevitable. The analogy is surely Leavers growing more and more hostile to the establishment whilst we stayed in the EU.
The binary nature of the referendum makes things worse: it remains my hope that we can have a negotiated deal that isn't binary i.e. we retain a lot of what some people like about our membership.
I am not surprised TM has seen a modest improvement and am also pleased that I am not the only one wanting her to get on with the job, an accusation I have been on the receiving end a few times.
TM has announced the leaving date at 11.00pm on the 29th March 2019 and the remain cause has gone into overdrive aided and abetted by a broadcast media that is wholly committed to the cause of stopping Brexit.
Adam Boulton this morning has, with his usual smirk, rolled out in grave tone Lord Kerr’s accusation that TM is ignoring the ability to renege on A50, they have a report by that other Sky doom and gloom merchant Ed Conway from Europe saying how bad things are going to be with business, and of course that arch Europhile, Mark Stone reporting from the European Parliament on the lack of progress in talks. And that is without involving the most biased of them all Faisal Islam. What has happened to Sky News that they never attack the EU over their handling of the negotiations and their inability to act even handed.
I watch Sky News most of the time but recently they have moved to the left and become the broadcast media for Juncker’s et al and it must be grating with a lot of voters who just want to get on with it. It would be ironic if Murdoch does close Sky News down though I would not want that to happen.
I do wonder what will happen if this broadside of pro EU, reverse the decision, group manage to derail Brexit. The likely outcome will not be pretty, especially for those elite who have colluded both here and with the EU to thwart the democratic vote.
The real danger of the #stopbrexit campaign is that the EU will concentrate on trying to persuade us not to leave rather than focusing on the leaving deal - resulting in a worse deal all round.
Though if the EU put genuine control of FoM on the table (not "emergency brakes" etc.) in a "stay" offer I wouldn't care to speculate as to how that would play out.
Perhaps if Leavers might have made the slightest effort to reach out to former Remain supporters, there wouldn't be such strong continuing hostility towards Brexit among those who voted Remain. This continuing attempt by many Leavers to portray those who are hostile to Brexit as the enemy within is unedifying and counterproductive.
I don't see those seeking to stop Brexit as the enemy within: they of course have every right. I think that - assuming it fails - it isn't helpful to our overall negotiating position.
Given the nature of the campaign and the practicalities of negotiation I think growing hostility from some Remainers is totally inevitable. The analogy is surely Leavers growing more and more hostile to the establishment whilst we stayed in the EU.
The binary nature of the referendum makes things worse: it remains my hope that we can have a negotiated deal that isn't binary i.e. we retain a lot of what some people like about our membership.
It's more likely that Britain will get the worst of all worlds: leaving the EU while retaining all the things that people dislike about membership.
Though if the EU put genuine control of FoM on the table (not "emergency brakes" etc.) in a "stay" offer I wouldn't care to speculate as to how that would play out.
And that is exactly what @tombradby is currently speculating on.
I think we are collectively too proud as a nation to change our minds. It would be quite ironic if the EU gave us an offer that would have won the original referendum but was insufficient to change our position given the result.
I think it highly unlikely the EU would make such an offer. It's very hard for them to agree to anything - and that would be undermining one of the four freedoms.
I think it very likely that there will be a reconsider campaign. But they will only be successful in getting a vote, if large numbers of people have changed their minds.
I think people will only change their minds if the EU change their position. Expecting the UK to go "Oh this is all too difficult" is utterly unrealistic (not least because the EU's approach to the negotiation is part of what is making it difficult).
Not doing it myself, partly because of lack of Betfair funds but mostly because I think the odds will shift beneficially, but there's 6.5 (with boost) on Ladbrokes for another vote before the end of 2019, and the opposite is available for 1.25 or thereabouts on Betfair Exchange, so you could have, essentially, a free bet for a small return.
Mr. Borough, some months ago I thought the EU would offer what they thought enough to cover/provoke a second referendum (increased rebate by a billion or somesuch). This would tally with that sort of thing.
Comments
George Galloway led the way with his "Sputnik" show
Ms. Apocalypse, that's a bit obvious, though. Places with migrants will have migrants answering such surveys, those who don't want non-British culture (whether of the different but lovely or different and barbaric variety) will likely have left, and those who don't mind change will have remained.
May is wise to keep Boris on board for now despite the polling, until he does something truly bad he's better kept inside the cabinet than potentially unleashing hell on the backbenches.
Barely anybody expected him to win. Very few of his supporters expected Labour to do as well as they did. The result was a massive surprise, and a welcome one.
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/
Isn't something happening in poor white areas of london called white flight ?
More than six in ten, including half of Remainers and three quarters of Leavers, said they thought the EU was not really trying to get a good deal – “they want to punish the UK and stop other countries wanting to leave”.
https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/11/lord-ashcroft-voters-are-losing-confidence-that-a-good-brexit-deal-will-be-secured-for-britain.html
Even before the referendum result I said that if Leave won, Remain supporters should leave the field for Leavers to take the helm. Leavers have made the complete balls-up of it that I expected, but that period has not yet come to an end.
Leave did well to present themselves as anti establishment.
I’d suggest it also somewhat undermines the idea that Corbyn reduced Labour Remainers.
If Clegg couldn’t get his own party past 70%...
But he's not an 'orthodox Marxist' by any means. I was making the point that these terms are flung about by people who have absolutely no idea what they mean. It tickled me that it was so specific - not only a Marxist (whatever that is) but an orthodox Marxist (so not an Austro-Marxist then? Or a Legal Marxist? Or a Bolshevik?)
Haw Haw.
And he’s not Spanish (Catalan).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41927557
RIP
Unsurprisingly it's the Tories that have declared the largest remuneration from RT. Perhaps it all went to charidee.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0261379416300932
"This research claims that ethnic change stimulates higher UKIP support while higher levels of established minorities predict lower UKIP support. A similar pattern characterises immigration attitudes in Britain.... white UKIP voters in minority-dense wards are no more likely to leave them, or to move to whiter wards, than their white liberal neighbours....
This research also breaks new ground by suggesting that the threat effects of demographic change fade over time, possibly because local white residents become accustomed to immigrant minorities, are more likely to have positive contact with them, or come to perceive immigrant groups as having a legitimate place in society... These results suggest that if the rate of ethnic change declines in the West in the future, opposition to immigration and support for the populist right could similarly abate."
Did you notice Hamilton's interview - which suggests he isn't minded to help Bottas too much "Valtteri would want to achieve on his own merits..." ?
I've fully hedged my Bottas position...
He died seven years ago.
A worthy successor to chat-show Charlie (Kennedy).
Is he just doing it to annoy Tony?
Either way - the Labour party has clearly changed.
Monsters! Monsters from the id!
Meanwhile, a couple of interesting tweets from Tom Bradby just now.
https://twitter.com/tombradby/status/928928620286042112
'He had “articulated a view of a fairer society” by pinching the “for the money not the few” slogan first used by the Blair government, he noted.'
Including in predominantly Asian and Somalia areas.
Leicester,more flight then ?
And brilliantly ignored my various other pre-season tips, ahem.
Though if the EU put genuine control of FoM on the table (not "emergency brakes" etc.) in a "stay" offer I wouldn't care to speculate as to how that would play out.
https://twitter.com/tombradby/status/928928030931734528
I think we are collectively too proud as a nation to change our minds. It would be quite ironic if the EU gave us an offer that would have won the original referendum but was insufficient to change our position given the result.
That's currently 6 on Ladbrokes. To be a full member at the start of 2020 is 4.5.
It's very hard for them to agree to anything - and that would be undermining one of the four freedoms.
I think it very likely that there will be a reconsider campaign.
But they will only be successful in getting a vote, if large numbers of people have changed their minds.
Maybe the Tory version derives from Public Schoolboy punishments where Sprockton-Minor has to sit in class in his underpants for not getting the School Bully's homework done in time. Ripping Yarns sort of stuff....
I am genuinely sorry that things are not so congenial in Bradford. Getting to know the neighbours is the best way of breaking predjudices.
“Take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus. There’s just nothing immoral or illegal here. Maybe just a little bit unusual.”
— Alabama state auditor Jim Zeigler (R), quoted by the Washington Examiner, defending Alabama U.S. Senate candidate Roy Moore (R), who is accused of initiating sexual relations with teenage girls.
https://politicalwire.com/2017/11/09/extra-bonus-quote-day-100/
Given the nature of the campaign and the practicalities of negotiation I think growing hostility from some Remainers is totally inevitable. The analogy is surely Leavers growing more and more hostile to the establishment whilst we stayed in the EU.
The binary nature of the referendum makes things worse: it remains my hope that we can have a negotiated deal that isn't binary i.e. we retain a lot of what some people like about our membership.
TM has announced the leaving date at 11.00pm on the 29th March 2019 and the remain cause has gone into overdrive aided and abetted by a broadcast media that is wholly committed to the cause of stopping Brexit.
Adam Boulton this morning has, with his usual smirk, rolled out in grave tone Lord Kerr’s accusation that TM is ignoring the ability to renege on A50, they have a report by that other Sky doom and gloom merchant Ed Conway from Europe saying how bad things are going to be with business, and of course that arch Europhile, Mark Stone reporting from the European Parliament on the lack of progress in talks. And that is without involving the most biased of them all Faisal Islam. What has happened to Sky News that they never attack the EU over their handling of the negotiations and their inability to act even handed.
I watch Sky News most of the time but recently they have moved to the left and become the broadcast media for Juncker’s et al and it must be grating with a lot of voters who just want to get on with it. It would be ironic if Murdoch does close Sky News down though I would not want that to happen.
I do wonder what will happen if this broadside of pro EU, reverse the decision, group manage to derail Brexit. The likely outcome will not be pretty, especially for those elite who have colluded both here and with the EU to thwart the democratic vote.
EU make an offer? Maybe the infamous brake on migration?