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it's 28 degrees here in the Tirol and not a single mention of Brexit

some of you need to get out more

Yorkcity said:

Ishmael_Z said:

Yorkcity said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Blue, I agree entirely on the matter of the referendum/preparation, although the Coalition period will be seen as a period of generally good governance compared with the previous and succeeding governments.

It's some time ago, but the comparison I drew (when Cameron was watering down his line to avoid saying we'd have a Third World War if we left) was of asking the public if they'd like cucumber or razorblade sandwiches. If you genuinely believe one option to be disastrous it's insane to offer it in a binary referendum. The lack of preparation was just weird and stupid in equal measure.

He was over confident in his own abilities to persuade the British public .I wonder why even with just getting over the winning line against Brown and a real scare from the Scottish.Hubris mixed with power and up bringing can be a fatal mixture.

I think possibly because of those narrow scrapes rather than in spite of them: they may have established a narrative in his head where it is always a damn close run thing, but Dave saves the day and HMQ purrs with pleasure again.

I think you make a good point .

The myth of the heroic amateur who does not need to expend any effort. A bane of the English psyche.

williamglenn said:

Alanbrooke said:

it's 28 degrees here in the Tirol and not a single mention of Brexit

some of you need to get out more

You don't hear the sound of dominoes falling in the distance? How strange...

I doubt youve ever been outside Scotland

Alanbrooke said:

williamglenn said:

Alanbrooke said:

it's 28 degrees here in the Tirol and not a single mention of Brexit

some of you need to get out more

You don't hear the sound of dominoes falling in the distance? How strange...

I doubt youve ever been outside Scotland

Thank god you've arrived. George was getting a bit of bad press so we were just waiting for you to ride in on your white charger to defend his honour.

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

williamglenn said:

Alanbrooke said:

it's 28 degrees here in the Tirol and not a single mention of Brexit

some of you need to get out more

You don't hear the sound of dominoes falling in the distance? How strange...

I doubt youve ever been outside Scotland

Thank god you've arrived. George was getting a bit of bad press so we were just waiting for you to ride in on your white charger to defend his honour.

too busy enjoying my hols though back to blighty tomorrow

Ive been enjoying reading the german papers, the best was die Welt saying German experts think the diesel scandal is being overdone and nobody should worry since you can trust them

nearly spilt my ice cream laughing

williamglenn said:

FF43 said:

Johnson’s is UK foreign policy, including its European dimension. So why, though so damagingly voluble on others’ business, is he so silent about his own?

Brexit is terminal for the UK's place in the world as it stood up until 2016 and Johnson has a front row seat.

Terminal, FFS? As in No place in the world, zilch, diddly squat, zero?

A little bit over blown?

williamglenn said:

FF43 said:

Johnson’s is UK foreign policy, including its European dimension. So why, though so damagingly voluble on others’ business, is he so silent about his own?

Brexit is terminal for the UK's place in the world as it stood up until 2016 and Johnson has a front row seat.

Given you essentially want to cement the UK in a Federal EU superstate under your vision the UK as an independent nation state would cease to exist anyway

DavidL said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/craigoliver100/status/901071860166688768

He must be seriously regretting standing down from the Commons. If he was still there this forthcoming Conference would be electric.

If Osborne spoke at conference this year there is a serious risk he would be booed, Cameron by contrast would be cheered if he appeared

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

williamglenn said:

Alanbrooke said:

it's 28 degrees here in the Tirol and not a single mention of Brexit

some of you need to get out more

You don't hear the sound of dominoes falling in the distance? How strange...

I doubt youve ever been outside Scotland

Thank god you've arrived. George was getting a bit of bad press so we were just waiting for you to ride in on your white charger to defend his honour.

too busy enjoying my hols though back to blighty tomorrow

Ive been enjoying reading the german papers, the best was die Welt saying German experts think the diesel scandal is being overdone and nobody should worry since you can trust them

nearly spilt my ice cream laughing

The US authorities and their forthcoming multi-billion dollar fine are going to beg to differ.

HYUFD said:

DavidL said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/craigoliver100/status/901071860166688768

He must be seriously regretting standing down from the Commons. If he was still there this forthcoming Conference would be electric.

If Osborne spoke at conference this year there is a serious risk he would be booed, Cameron by contrast would be cheered if he appeared

There wasn't a fag paper between them but some, perhaps many Cons members have a cognitive dissonance whereby they cannot allow themselves to acknowledge what a good team Osborne & Cam were and hence would welcome one, while condemning the other.

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Alanbrooke said:

Immigration is currently the lead issue in the German election

one noteworthy statistic is 42% of all german residents under 6 years old is from an immigrant background

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article167936280/So-rasant-wird-Deutschland-zur-Migrationsgesellschaft.html

The article eventually gets to what they mean by "migration background" which is that the person OR either of their parents were born without German nationality. It seems from that to include even people whose parents were granted German citizenship before they had kids, and possibly when they themselves were very young.

That's very sweeping. I'm from a "migration background" if we apply that to the UK, because my mother moved here when she was four. Yet she grew up entirely British, speaking only English, as of course did I. Now I've no problem being given that label, but I very much doubt the picture people get from the term "migration background" looks anything like me. And there are many more like me.

It's even more true in Germany, of course, as it has land borders with nine countries. A person with a "migration background" presumably includes a fair number of people whose Dad moved a couple of miles down the road in the Alsace-Lorraine area or what have you back in 1973.

I'm not saying migration isn't an important issue, but that reeks of a dodgy stat to me.

if its a dodgy stat youd better take it up with the German Federal Govt since it's their stat

as for immigration

https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article167987546/Zuwanderung-verunsichert-die-Deutschen-wie-kein-anderes-Thema.html

Mortimer said:

Ishmael_Z said:

DavidL said:

He is, with Cameron, the outstanding politician of his generation. I don't agree with him on everything, the EU being an obvious example, and like everyone in public life he has made mistakes or misjudgements but for competence, vision and the ability to articulate a position there is no one in the current House of Commons who is even close. It is very unfortunate that he is not available to help in a difficult situation.

Really? The pasty tax budget wasn't a "we all make mistakes" mistake, it was wankerdom of the highest order. In retrospect it is the childishness of the Cameron government which is its most striking fixture; that budget was Osborne phoning in an Oxford essay because he had something more interesting to do. His current behaviour is purely undergraduate: he thinks he is the editor of Cherwell sniping at the president of the Union.

This, incidentally, is what is wrong with the lazy assertion that JRM is another Boris; JRM shows serious signs of being a grown-up, and I doubt whether even in his Oxford days he smashed up a restaurant or irrumated a pig's head.

Indeed. Osborne has been massively shown up by the actions of other Cameroons. Some have retired with dignity, others have taken up the mantle and worked with the new leadership.

And many have got on with their jobs of being constituency MPs and their other projects, despite having no small amount of antipathy towards the current leadership and direction (ie Mrs May coz that's who's driving this). This wasn't really an option for Cam or George. Their positions were untenable.

rcs1000 said:

nigel4england said:

MikeSmithson said:

williamglenn said:

CarlottaVance said:

the new Home Secretary, Amber Rudd — who is sensible and rational

Go on, tell us what you really think, George......

It's pretty clear what he really thinks:

...the then Home Secretary thought it was better to stick with false information than get the real facts, which might force her to change the policy.

In terms of political ability TMay is a dwarf alongside the Chancellor she ceremonially sacked in July last year.

So you keep telling us Mike.

However didn't you also tell us that Chris Huhne was the 'sharpest brain in politics'?

As it turned out he wasn't even the sharpest brain in his own family.

Oooh, I don't know. At least Chris Huhne realised that admitting taking speeding tickets for one's spouse would result in a jail sentence.

But not bright enough to realising that sleeping around might piss of your wife...

TOPPING said:

Mortimer said:

Ishmael_Z said:

DavidL said:

He is, with Cameron, the outstanding politician of his generation. I don't agree with him on everything, the EU being an obvious example, and like everyone in public life he has made mistakes or misjudgements but for competence, vision and the ability to articulate a position there is no one in the current House of Commons who is even close. It is very unfortunate that he is not available to help in a difficult situation.

Really? The pasty tax budget wasn't a "we all make mistakes" mistake, it was wankerdom of the highest order. In retrospect it is the childishness of the Cameron government which is its most striking fixture; that budget was Osborne phoning in an Oxford essay because he had something more interesting to do. His current behaviour is purely undergraduate: he thinks he is the editor of Cherwell sniping at the president of the Union.

This, incidentally, is what is wrong with the lazy assertion that JRM is another Boris; JRM shows serious signs of being a grown-up, and I doubt whether even in his Oxford days he smashed up a restaurant or irrumated a pig's head.

Indeed. Osborne has been massively shown up by the actions of other Cameroons. Some have retired with dignity, others have taken up the mantle and worked with the new leadership.

And many have got on with their jobs of being constituency MPs and their other projects, despite having no small amount of antipathy towards the current leadership and direction (ie Mrs May coz that's who's driving this). This wasn't really an option for Cam or George. Their positions were untenable.

Indeed. The only positive way out for George was retirement from front line politics. Editing a free sheet wasn't exactly the desired route, mind, for dignity. He just sounds petty, frankly.

TOPPING said:

Mortimer said:

Ishmael_Z said:

DavidL said:

He is, with Cameron, the outstanding politician of his generation. I don't agree with him on everything, the EU being an obvious example, and like everyone in public life he has made mistakes or misjudgements but for competence, vision and the ability to articulate a position there is no one in the current House of Commons who is even close. It is very unfortunate that he is not available to help in a difficult situation.

Really? The pasty tax budget wasn't a "we all make mistakes" mistake, it was wankerdom of the highest order. In retrospect it is the childishness of the Cameron government which is its most striking fixture; that budget was Osborne phoning in an Oxford essay because he had something more interesting to do. His current behaviour is purely undergraduate: he thinks he is the editor of Cherwell sniping at the president of the Union.

This, incidentally, is what is wrong with the lazy assertion that JRM is another Boris; JRM shows serious signs of being a grown-up, and I doubt whether even in his Oxford days he smashed up a restaurant or irrumated a pig's head.

Indeed. Osborne has been massively shown up by the actions of other Cameroons. Some have retired with dignity, others have taken up the mantle and worked with the new leadership.

And many have got on with their jobs of being constituency MPs and their other projects, despite having no small amount of antipathy towards the current leadership and direction (ie Mrs May coz that's who's driving this). This wasn't really an option for Cam or George. Their positions were untenable.

Brings to mind that movie the Lion in winter: 'When the fall is all that's left, it matters'.

HYUFD said:

TOPPING said:

HYUFD said:

DavidL said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/craigoliver100/status/901071860166688768

He must be seriously regretting standing down from the Commons. If he was still there this forthcoming Conference would be electric.

If Osborne spoke at conference this year there is a serious risk he would be booed, Cameron by contrast would be cheered if he appeared

There wasn't a fag paper between them but some, perhaps many Cons members have a cognitive dissonance whereby they cannot allow themselves to acknowledge what a good team Osborne & Cam were and hence would welcome one, while condemning the other.

Cameron has acted with dignity and loyalty since leaving office, Osborne has done nothing but snipe from the sidelines and party members I have spoken to have noted the difference

He has a view of the way the Conservative Party, and the country, should be run. Surely he is allowed to voice that opinion. Plus it's box office and the Standard is getting to must-read status which will please his advertisers.

George Osborne is getting an awful lot of airtime and publicity for someone who the more swivel-eyed Leavers insist is politically dead. As usual, they're telling themselves something and hoping it's true.

Alanbrooke said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Alanbrooke said:

Immigration is currently the lead issue in the German election

one noteworthy statistic is 42% of all german residents under 6 years old is from an immigrant background

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article167936280/So-rasant-wird-Deutschland-zur-Migrationsgesellschaft.html

The article eventually gets to what they mean by "migration background" which is that the person OR either of their parents were born without German nationality. It seems from that to include even people whose parents were granted German citizenship before they had kids, and possibly when they themselves were very young.

That's very sweeping. I'm from a "migration background" if we apply that to the UK, because my mother moved here when she was four. Yet she grew up entirely British, speaking only English, as of course did I. Now I've no problem being given that label, but I very much doubt the picture people get from the term "migration background" looks anything like me. And there are many more like me.

It's even more true in Germany, of course, as it has land borders with nine countries. A person with a "migration background" presumably includes a fair number of people whose Dad moved a couple of miles down the road in the Alsace-Lorraine area or what have you back in 1973.

I'm not saying migration isn't an important issue, but that reeks of a dodgy stat to me.

if its a dodgy stat youd better take it up with the German Federal Govt since it's their stat

as for immigration

https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article167987546/Zuwanderung-verunsichert-die-Deutschen-wie-kein-anderes-Thema.html

It's not a dodgy stat in the sense of being inaccurate in its own terms. No doubt it accurately records the number of people who were either born without German nationality, or at least one of whose parents lacked German nationality.

What's dodgy about it is that the newspaper and, with respect, people like you, parrot it in such a way that gives a misleading impression of what it in fact records. When you were writing your comment, and when others read it, they simply weren't thinking of people whose parents became naturalized German citizens many years before they were born, or whose Dad wooed a girl from just over the Rhine several decades ago.

Allan said:

williamglenn said:

FF43 said:

Johnson’s is UK foreign policy, including its European dimension. So why, though so damagingly voluble on others’ business, is he so silent about his own?

Brexit is terminal for the UK's place in the world as it stood up until 2016 and Johnson has a front row seat.

Terminal, FFS? As in No place in the world, zilch, diddly squat, zero?

A little bit over blown?

Perhaps. The USSR staggered on for a couple of years after the wall came down while power drained away.

Charles said:

rcs1000 said:

nigel4england said:

MikeSmithson said:

williamglenn said:

CarlottaVance said:

the new Home Secretary, Amber Rudd — who is sensible and rational

Go on, tell us what you really think, George......

It's pretty clear what he really thinks:

...the then Home Secretary thought it was better to stick with false information than get the real facts, which might force her to change the policy.

In terms of political ability TMay is a dwarf alongside the Chancellor she ceremonially sacked in July last year.

So you keep telling us Mike.

However didn't you also tell us that Chris Huhne was the 'sharpest brain in politics'?

As it turned out he wasn't even the sharpest brain in his own family.

Oooh, I don't know. At least Chris Huhne realised that admitting taking speeding tickets for one's spouse would result in a jail sentence.

But not bright enough to realising that sleeping around might piss of your wife...

His wife did not think through her actions talking to Isabel Oakeshott.Both been imprisoned was hardly a successful outcome for them .

MikeSmithson said:

AlastairMeeks said:

George Osborne is getting an awful lot of airtime and publicity for someone who the more swivel-eyed Leavers insist is politically dead. As usual, they're telling themselves something and hoping it's true.

And of course - TMay - election loser immigration over-stater

And Prime Minister........

Yorkcity said:

Charles said:

rcs1000 said:

nigel4england said:

MikeSmithson said:

williamglenn said:

CarlottaVance said:

the new Home Secretary, Amber Rudd — who is sensible and rational

Go on, tell us what you really think, George......

It's pretty clear what he really thinks:

...the then Home Secretary thought it was better to stick with false information than get the real facts, which might force her to change the policy.

In terms of political ability TMay is a dwarf alongside the Chancellor she ceremonially sacked in July last year.

So you keep telling us Mike.

However didn't you also tell us that Chris Huhne was the 'sharpest brain in politics'?

As it turned out he wasn't even the sharpest brain in his own family.

Oooh, I don't know. At least Chris Huhne realised that admitting taking speeding tickets for one's spouse would result in a jail sentence.

But not bright enough to realising that sleeping around might piss of your wife...

His wife did not think through her actions talking to Isabel Oakeshott.Both been imprisoned was hardly a successful outcome for them .

Vicky Price has done ok from the publicity

HYUFD said:

TOPPING said:

HYUFD said:

TOPPING said:

HYUFD said:

DavidL said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/craigoliver100/status/901071860166688768

He must be seriously regretting standing down from the Commons. If he was still there this forthcoming Conference would be electric.

If Osborne spoke at conference this year there is a serious risk he would be booed, Cameron by contrast would be cheered if he appeared

There wasn't a fag paper between them but some, perhaps many Cons members have a cognitive dissonance whereby they cannot allow themselves to acknowledge what a good team Osborne & Cam were and hence would welcome one, while condemning the other.

Cameron has acted with dignity and loyalty since leaving office, Osborne has done nothing but snipe from the sidelines and party members I have spoken to have noted the difference

He has a view of the way the Conservative Party, and the country, should be run. Surely he is allowed to voice that opinion. Plus it's box office and the Standard is getting to must-read status which will please his advertisers.

Within reason and constructively not constantly attacking his former party and its leader, many Cabinet Ministers have been sacked but few have acted as petulantly after

He's no longer an MP he has no obligation other than to his conscience and his advertisers.

May was quite clear about his value to the party, the party has moved in a direction he fundamentally disagrees with, and he's supposed to have some great loyalty to it?

Bizarre.

Owen Jones has lost a fan:

https://thegerasites.wordpress.com/2017/08/25/open-letter-to-owen-jones/

HYUFD said:

TOPPING said:

HYUFD said:

DavidL said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/craigoliver100/status/901071860166688768

He must be seriously regretting standing down from the Commons. If he was still there this forthcoming Conference would be electric.

If Osborne spoke at conference this year there is a serious risk he would be booed, Cameron by contrast would be cheered if he appeared

There wasn't a fag paper between them but some, perhaps many Cons members have a cognitive dissonance whereby they cannot allow themselves to acknowledge what a good team Osborne & Cam were and hence would welcome one, while condemning the other.

Cameron has acted with dignity and loyalty since leaving office, Osborne has done nothing but snipe from the sidelines and party members I have spoken to have noted the difference

Quite.

Charles said:

rcs1000 said:

nigel4england said:

MikeSmithson said:

williamglenn said:

CarlottaVance said:

the new Home Secretary, Amber Rudd — who is sensible and rational

Go on, tell us what you really think, George......

It's pretty clear what he really thinks:

...the then Home Secretary thought it was better to stick with false information than get the real facts, which might force her to change the policy.

In terms of political ability TMay is a dwarf alongside the Chancellor she ceremonially sacked in July last year.

So you keep telling us Mike.

However didn't you also tell us that Chris Huhne was the 'sharpest brain in politics'?

As it turned out he wasn't even the sharpest brain in his own family.

Oooh, I don't know. At least Chris Huhne realised that admitting taking speeding tickets for one's spouse would result in a jail sentence.

But not bright enough to realising that sleeping around might piss of your wife...

Useful tip. Thanks Charles.

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

MikeSmithson said:

AlastairMeeks said:

George Osborne is getting an awful lot of airtime and publicity for someone who the more swivel-eyed Leavers insist is politically dead. As usual, they're telling themselves something and hoping it's true.

And of course - TMay - election loser immigration over-stater

And Prime Minister........

The conceit of her campaign focusing entirely on herself was appalling.

Wasn't it based on polling evidence rather than conceit?

As an aside, the Border Adjustment Tax is officially dead as of today.

TOPPING said:

Ishmael_Z said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

TOPPING said:

HYUFD said:

DavidL said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/craigoliver100/status/901071860166688768

He must be seriously regretting standing down from the Commons. If he was still there this forthcoming Conference would be electric.

If Osborne spoke at conference this year there is a serious risk he would be booed, Cameron by contrast would be cheered if he appeared

There wasn't a fag paper between them but some, perhaps many Cons members have a cognitive dissonance whereby they cannot allow themselves to acknowledge what a good team Osborne & Cam were and hence would welcome one, while condemning the other.

Cameron has acted with dignity and loyalty since leaving office, Osborne has done nothing but snipe from the sidelines and party members I have spoken to have noted the difference

Remember how election loser TMay fired Osborne in the most public and humiliating. She herself is to blame.

Well of course she did, but tit-for-tatting is rather descending to her level, no? What he has done isn't terrible, and the damage is principally to himself. He has ruled himself out of what could have been a return to power, and the premiership, for the sake of a bit (admittedly clever and entertaining) trolling. Not a great bargain, I would have thought.

Plenty of Cons rail against the "UKIPisation" of the Tory Party. He hasn't ruled himself out of anything.

He has, the Tory Party can forgive ideological differences but not serial disloyalty

isam said:

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

MikeSmithson said:

AlastairMeeks said:

George Osborne is getting an awful lot of airtime and publicity for someone who the more swivel-eyed Leavers insist is politically dead. As usual, they're telling themselves something and hoping it's true.

And of course - TMay - election loser immigration over-stater

And Prime Minister........

Until she's won an election - like Osborne/Cameron - she's nothing politically. The conceit of her campaign focusing entirely on herself was appalling.

What does losing a referendum they didn't have to call and were 1.06 to win make Cameron and Osborne? Apparently the loss has cast the country into oblivion, so it is much more damaging than a party losing a GE

Osbo opposed the referendum.

HYUFD said:

TOPPING said:

Ishmael_Z said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

TOPPING said:

HYUFD said:

DavidL said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/craigoliver100/status/901071860166688768

He must be seriously regretting standing down from the Commons. If he was still there this forthcoming Conference would be electric.

If Osborne spoke at conference this year there is a serious risk he would be booed, Cameron by contrast would be cheered if he appeared

There wasn't a fag paper between them but some, perhaps many Cons members have a cognitive dissonance whereby they cannot allow themselves to acknowledge what a good team Osborne & Cam were and hence would welcome one, while condemning the other.

Cameron has acted with dignity and loyalty since leaving office, Osborne has done nothing but snipe from the sidelines and party members I have spoken to have noted the difference

Remember how election loser TMay fired Osborne in the most public and humiliating. She herself is to blame.

Well of course she did, but tit-for-tatting is rather descending to her level, no? What he has done isn't terrible, and the damage is principally to himself. He has ruled himself out of what could have been a return to power, and the premiership, for the sake of a bit (admittedly clever and entertaining) trolling. Not a great bargain, I would have thought.

Plenty of Cons rail against the "UKIPisation" of the Tory Party. He hasn't ruled himself out of anything.

He has, the Tory Party can forgive ideological differences but not serial disloyalty

Wouldn't be too sure. As I said the party has changed not everyone has come with it.

CarlottaVance said:

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

MikeSmithson said:

AlastairMeeks said:

George Osborne is getting an awful lot of airtime and publicity for someone who the more swivel-eyed Leavers insist is politically dead. As usual, they're telling themselves something and hoping it's true.

And of course - TMay - election loser immigration over-stater

And Prime Minister........

The conceit of her campaign focusing entirely on herself was appalling.

Wasn't it based on polling evidence rather than conceit?

You've become our regular TMay apologist - but I suppose someone has to. Agreeing to a campaign which was all about her without reference to her party was conceit and high risk.

TOPPING said:

HYUFD said:

TOPPING said:

Ishmael_Z said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

TOPPING said:

HYUFD said:

DavidL said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/craigoliver100/status/901071860166688768

He must be seriously regretting standing down from the Commons. If he was still there this forthcoming Conference would be electric.

If Osborne spoke at conference this year there is a serious risk he would be booed, Cameron by contrast would be cheered if he appeared

There wasn't a fag paper between them but some, perhaps many Cons members have a cognitive dissonance whereby they cannot allow themselves to acknowledge what a good team Osborne & Cam were and hence would welcome one, while condemning the other.

Cameron has acted with dignity and loyalty since leaving office, Osborne has done nothing but snipe from the sidelines and party members I have spoken to have noted the difference

Remember how election loser TMay fired Osborne in the most public and humiliating. She herself is to blame.

Well of course she did, but tit-for-tatting is rather descending to her level, no? What he has done isn't terrible, and the damage is principally to himself. He has ruled himself out of what could have been a return to power, and the premiership, for the sake of a bit (admittedly clever and entertaining) trolling. Not a great bargain, I would have thought.

Plenty of Cons rail against the "UKIPisation" of the Tory Party. He hasn't ruled himself out of anything.

He has, the Tory Party can forgive ideological differences but not serial disloyalty

Wouldn't be too sure.

As Heseltine and Portillo discovered backstabbing and sniping does not go down well with the party and was fatal to their leadership chances

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

TOPPING said:

HYUFD said:

DavidL said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/craigoliver100/status/901071860166688768

He must be seriously regretting standing down from the Commons. If he was still there this forthcoming Conference would be electric.

If Osborne spoke at conference this year there is a serious risk he would be booed, Cameron by contrast would be cheered if he appeared

There wasn't a fag paper between them but some, perhaps many Cons members have a cognitive dissonance whereby they cannot allow themselves to acknowledge what a good team Osborne & Cam were and hence would welcome one, while condemning the other.

Cameron has acted with dignity and loyalty since leaving office, Osborne has done nothing but snipe from the sidelines and party members I have spoken to have noted the difference

Remember how election loser TMay fired Osborne in the most public and humiliating. She herself is to blame.

In part because Osborne was so belittling and arrogant towards her and other colleagues as Chancellor

So? If you're going to punish people in politics, it has to be to incentivise future good behaviour. If you're doing it purely to satisfy a lust for revenge, it has an awful tendency to backfire, and reflects appallingly on your judgement.

In other words, GO may well be an annoying little pr1ck. But he's an annoying little pr1ck who edits a pretty big newspaper and is very well connected. And May needlessly humiliated him out of spite and because she thought she could. Doesn't matter whether you can understand why she dislikes the bloke - she's been foolish.

One of May's fatal flaws is that she believes she can easily deal with issues with a single cunning move. So she thinks she's killed the Cameroons with a brutal reshuffle, but they are still there and angry. She thinks she can get her mandate by calling an election, but forgets to run a vigorous, disciplined campaign. She believes she can dictate terms to Europe, and seems surprised that it's a long process and that our neighbours have been doing a bit of work on their strategy while she was d1cking about not running an election campaign to speak of.

MikeSmithson said:

isam said:

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

MikeSmithson said:

AlastairMeeks said:

George Osborne is getting an awful lot of airtime and publicity for someone who the more swivel-eyed Leavers insist is politically dead. As usual, they're telling themselves something and hoping it's true.

And of course - TMay - election loser immigration over-stater

And Prime Minister........

Until she's won an election - like Osborne/Cameron - she's nothing politically. The conceit of her campaign focusing entirely on herself was appalling.

What does losing a referendum they didn't have to call and were 1.06 to win make Cameron and Osborne? Apparently the loss has cast the country into oblivion, so it is much more damaging than a party losing a GE

Osbo opposed the referendum.

He was still one of the main men of Remain, who were heavy odds on favourites throughout, had all the levers of power at their disposal... and lost

surbiton said:

SouthamObserver said:

Ishmael_Z said:

Mortimer said:

TOPPING said:

Mortimer said:

Ishmael_Z said:

DavidL said:

He is, with Cameron, the outstanding politician of his generation. I don't agree with him on everything, the EU being an obvious example, and like everyone in public life he has made mistakes or misjudgements but for competence, vision and the ability to articulate a position there is no one in the current House of Commons who is even close. It is very unfortunate that he is not available to help in a difficult situation.

Really? The pasty tax budget wasn't a "we all make mistakes" mistake, it was wankerdom of the highest order. In retrospect it is the childishness of the Cameron government which is its most striking fixture; that budget was Osborne phoning in an Oxford essay because he had something more interesting to do. His current behaviour is purely undergraduate: he thinks he is the editor of Cherwell sniping at the president of the Union.

This, incidentally, is what is wrong with the lazy assertion that JRM is another Boris; JRM shows serious signs of being a grown-up, and I doubt whether even in his Oxford days he smashed up a restaurant or irrumated a pig's head.

Indeed. Osborne has been massively shown up by the actions of other Cameroons. Some have retired with dignity, others have taken up the mantle and worked with the new leadership.

And many have got on with their jobs of being constituency MPs and their other projects, despite having no small amount of antipathy towards the current leadership and direction (ie Mrs May coz that's who's driving this). This wasn't really an option for Cam or George. Their positions were untenable.

Indeed. The only positive way out for George was retirement from front line politics. Editing a free sheet wasn't exactly the desired route, mind, for dignity. He just sounds petty, frankly.

It is certainly a classic case of putting self before party. Presumably he thinks it better for the country to have a conservative government under Mrs May than a Labour one under JC.

What was May doing when she continued to peddle the 100,000 students overstaying their visas when she knew it wasn't true?

Basically, she is a liar !

She put her own ambitions before what was best for her party and her country. It's a bad look.

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

HYUFD said:

MikeSmithson said:

HYUFD said:

TOPPING said:

HYUFD said:

DavidL said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/craigoliver100/status/901071860166688768

He must be seriously regretting standing down from the Commons. If he was still there this forthcoming Conference would be electric.

If Osborne spoke at conference this year there is a serious risk he would be booed, Cameron by contrast would be cheered if he appeared

There wasn't a fag paper between them but some, perhaps many Cons members have a cognitive dissonance whereby they cannot allow themselves to acknowledge what a good team Osborne & Cam were and hence would welcome one, while condemning the other.

Cameron has acted with dignity and loyalty since leaving office, Osborne has done nothing but snipe from the sidelines and party members I have spoken to have noted the difference

Remember how election loser TMay fired Osborne in the most public and humiliating. She herself is to blame.

In part because Osborne was so belittling and arrogant towards her and other colleagues as Chancellor

So? If you're going to punish people in politics, it has to be to incentivise future good behaviour. If you're doing it purely to satisfy a lust for revenge, it has an awful tendency to backfire, and reflects appallingly on your judgement.

In other words, GO may well be an annoying little pr1ck. But he's an annoying little pr1ck who edits a pretty big newspaper and is very well connected. And May needlessly humiliated him out of spite and because she thought she could. Doesn't matter whether you can understand why she dislikes the bloke - she's been foolish.

One of May's fatal flaws is that she believes she can easily deal with issues with a single cunning move. So she thinks she's killed the Cameroons with a brutal reshuffle, but they are still there and angry. She thinks she can get her mandate by calling an election, but forgets to run a vigorous, disciplined campaign. She believes she can dictate terms to Europe, and seems surprised that it's a long process and that our neighbours have been doing a bit of work on their strategy while she was d1cking about not running an election campaign to speak of.

Regardless of mistskes May has or has not made and let us not forget ultimately she is still PM elected by 14 million British voters, Osborne should have accepted his removal in a more dignified fashion and shown more loyalty to the party which made him

rcs1000 said:

As an aside, the Border Adjustment Tax is officially dead as of today.

Like every other Trump policy or idea.

Kasich in indie run for 2020?

https://www.axios.com/2020-rumblings-gop-dem-combo-potential-emerges-2476905475.html

SouthamObserver said:

surbiton said:

SouthamObserver said:

Ishmael_Z said:

Mortimer said:

TOPPING said:

Mortimer said:

Ishmael_Z said:

DavidL said:

He is, with Cameron, the outstanding politician of his generation. I don't agree with him on everything, the EU being an obvious example, and like everyone in public life he has made mistakes or misjudgements but for competence, vision and the ability to articulate a position there is no one in the current House of Commons who is even close. It is very unfortunate that he is not available to help in a difficult situation.

This, incidentally, is what is wrong with the lazy assertion that JRM is another Boris; JRM shows serious signs of being a grown-up, and I doubt whether even in his Oxford days he smashed up a restaurant or irrumated a pig's head.

Indeed. Osborne has been massively shown up by the actions of other Cameroons. Some have retired with dignity, others have taken up the mantle and worked with the new leadership.

And many have got on with their jobs of being constituency MPs and their other projects, despite having no small amount of antipathy towards the current leadership and direction (ie Mrs May coz that's who's driving this). This wasn't really an option for Cam or George. Their positions were untenable.

Indeed. The only positive way out for George was retirement from front line politics. Editing a free sheet wasn't exactly the desired route, mind, for dignity. He just sounds petty, frankly.

It is certainly a classic case of putting self before party. Presumably he thinks it better for the country to have a conservative government under Mrs May than a Labour one under JC.

What was May doing when she continued to peddle the 100,000 students overstaying their visas when she knew it wasn't true?

Basically, she is a liar !

She put her own ambitions before what was best for her party and her country. It's a bad look.

You think her plan was to overstate immigration at a time when her party was under attack on immigration, and she was in charge of it, so that when she became leader, which looked unlikely to ever happen at the time, she could then massage the figures downwards?

That is cunning, I thought she was meant to be shit!

Sandpit said:

rottenborough said:

On Topic: Why on earth is Portillo on BF as next leader at only 46?

Am I missing something?

Nope. Ruth Davidson was about 10 at one point, as were a whole bunch of other non-MPs. Lay anyone on the list who isn't in Parliament!

But at least Ruthie is in the Game. And clearly ambitious etc etc.

Portillo packing in trains and returning isn't impossible, but it is highly improbable.

SouthamObserver said:

surbiton said:

SouthamObserver said:

Ishmael_Z said:

Mortimer said:

TOPPING said:

Mortimer said:

Ishmael_Z said:

DavidL said:

He is, with Cameron, the outstanding politician of his generation. I don't agree with him on everything, the EU being an obvious example, and like everyone in public life he has made mistakes or misjudgements but for competence, vision and the ability to articulate a position there is no one in the current House of Commons who is even close. It is very unfortunate that he is not available to help in a difficult situation.

Really? The pasty tax budget wasn't a "we all make mistakes" mistake, it was wankerdom of the highest order. In retrospect it is the childishness of the Cameron government which is its most striking fixture; that budget was Osborne phoning in an Oxford essay because he had something more interesting to do. His current behaviour is purely undergraduate: he thinks he is the editor of Cherwell sniping at the president of the Union.

This, incidentally, is what is wrong with the lazy assertion that JRM is another Boris; JRM shows serious signs of being a grown-up, and I doubt whether even in his Oxford days he smashed up a restaurant or irrumated a pig's head.

Indeed. Osborne has been massively shown up by the actions of other Cameroons. Some have retired with dignity, others have taken up the mantle and worked with the new leadership.

And many have got on with their jobs of being constituency MPs and their other projects, despite having no small amount of antipathy towards the current leadership and direction (ie Mrs May coz that's who's driving this). This wasn't really an option for Cam or George. Their positions were untenable.

Indeed. The only positive way out for George was retirement from front line politics. Editing a free sheet wasn't exactly the desired route, mind, for dignity. He just sounds petty, frankly.

It is certainly a classic case of putting self before party. Presumably he thinks it better for the country to have a conservative government under Mrs May than a Labour one under JC.

What was May doing when she continued to peddle the 100,000 students overstaying their visas when she knew it wasn't true?

Basically, she is a liar !

She put her own ambitions before what was best for her party and her country. It's a bad look.

The idea that the Leave victory meant free movement could continue uncontrolled is absurd, at least in the short term there have to be new immigration restrictions

I'm confused with the immigration numbers.

Heard reports that the student numbers were over-inflated by 100k.

However also heard reports that net migration is down by nearly 100k "due to Brexit".

If the student numbers were now reported as 100k less then net migration is essentially unchanged on last year so no has there been no Brexit change afterall? Or are the student numbers still recorded as 100k in which case do we need to change the net migration figure?

isam said:

foxinsoxuk said:

isam said:

Mortimer said:

Amazed how much bile Mrs May attracts.

Yesterday a poster called her malevolent. Today she is being compared negatively with someone who managed to get booed at the Olympics.

Baffles me. Is it because she got 14m votes against the best Labour campaigner since Blair, sidelined the lib Dems or actually listened to the referendum of last year?

The poor losers cant stand not having one of their own running tings. Spoilt rotten

She was a Remainer, albeit a fairly pathetic effort made.

She was, but she has accepted the result and tried to get on with it, so not "one of their own" in this context

If she had promised the extra £350m a week to the NHS that would be accepting the result. As it is she has ruled out the key promise.

MikeSmithson said:

isam said:

foxinsoxuk said:

isam said:

Mortimer said:

Amazed how much bile Mrs May attracts.

Yesterday a poster called her malevolent. Today she is being compared negatively with someone who managed to get booed at the Olympics.

Baffles me. Is it because she got 14m votes against the best Labour campaigner since Blair, sidelined the lib Dems or actually listened to the referendum of last year?

The poor losers cant stand not having one of their own running tings. Spoilt rotten

She was a Remainer, albeit a fairly pathetic effort made.

She was, but she has accepted the result and tried to get on with it, so not "one of their own" in this context

If she had promised the extra £350m a week to the NHS that would be accepting the result. As it is she has ruled out the key promise.

No that's not true. You need to get over it and move on rather than make cheap, unhelpful, jibes. It's in the past, let it go. Even James "Mark" Chapman aint gonna help you now

isam said:

MikeSmithson said:

isam said:

foxinsoxuk said:

isam said:

Mortimer said:

Amazed how much bile Mrs May attracts.

Yesterday a poster called her malevolent. Today she is being compared negatively with someone who managed to get booed at the Olympics.

Baffles me. Is it because she got 14m votes against the best Labour campaigner since Blair, sidelined the lib Dems or actually listened to the referendum of last year?

The poor losers cant stand not having one of their own running tings. Spoilt rotten

She was a Remainer, albeit a fairly pathetic effort made.

She was, but she has accepted the result and tried to get on with it, so not "one of their own" in this context

If she had promised the extra £350m a week to the NHS that would be accepting the result. As it is she has ruled out the key promise.

No that's not true. You need to get over it and move on rather than make cheap, unhelpful, jibes. It's in the past, let it go. Even James "Mark" Chapman aint gonna help you now

isam said:

MikeSmithson said:

isam said:

foxinsoxuk said:

isam said:

Mortimer said:

Amazed how much bile Mrs May attracts.

Yesterday a poster called her malevolent. Today she is being compared negatively with someone who managed to get booed at the Olympics.

Baffles me. Is it because she got 14m votes against the best Labour campaigner since Blair, sidelined the lib Dems or actually listened to the referendum of last year?

The poor losers cant stand not having one of their own running tings. Spoilt rotten

She was a Remainer, albeit a fairly pathetic effort made.

She was, but she has accepted the result and tried to get on with it, so not "one of their own" in this context

If she had promised the extra £350m a week to the NHS that would be accepting the result. As it is she has ruled out the key promise.

No that's not true. You need to get over it and move on rather than make cheap, unhelpful, jibes. It's in the past, let it go. Even James "Mark" Chapman aint gonna help you now

Bollocks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_MzHFiu-6Y

I can hear those tears falling !