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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Vince Cable slams TMay over bogus student immigration figures

SystemSystem Posts: 12,598
edited August 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Vince Cable slams TMay over bogus student immigration figures which “came on her watch”

Bogus student visa figures "happened on May's watch" https://t.co/jOsaNoVzox

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  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,194
    edited August 2017
    First, like TransPennine Express.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    SandyRentool said:

    First, like TransPennine Express.

    They aren't First anymore.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    This was Dave's biggest error as PM.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    But why didn't Sir Vince deploy his nuclear weapon over this?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,194
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    SandyRentool said:

    First, like TransPennine Express.

    They aren't First anymore.
    "TransPennine Express is a FirstGroup plc company"

    https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/about-us/about-firstgroup

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    edited August 2017
    SandyRentool said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    SandyRentool said:

    First, like TransPennine Express.

    They aren't First anymore.
    "TransPennine Express is a FirstGroup plc company"

    https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/about-us/about-firstgroup

    But they dropped the First from their operating name they were First TransPennine Express.

    I should know, I use their services around 8-10 times a week.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Well done for finding the only known picture of students that doesn't involve blonde teenage girls cheering about their A Level results.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    From the previous thread Alistair Meeks suggested "I'm expecting CANVAS

    `Can't Agree Nothing, Vicissitude Arriving Shortly' "

    How about "Can't Add Numbers Vacuous And Silly" ?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,194
    But 26% of overseas students are given permission to stay, which still represents a fair chunk of additional bods in the UK. Additional bods with degrees, rather that cabbage-pickers, mind.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited August 2017
    Toms said:

    From the previous thread Alistair Meeks suggested "I'm expecting CANVAS

    `Can't Agree Nothing, Vicissitude Arriving Shortly' "

    How about "Can't Add Numbers Vacuous And Silly" ?

    It needs to use "Vapid", maybe, as in "Bilge".
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    "Bogus" always conjures up an image of William Hague circa 2000 to me.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    GeoffM said:

    Toms said:

    From the previous thread Alistair Meeks suggested "I'm expecting CANVAS

    `Can't Agree Nothing, Vicissitude Arriving Shortly' "

    How about "Can't Add Numbers Vacuous And Silly" ?

    It needs to use "Vapid", maybe, as in "Bilge".
    Brexit Impasse Leaves Geoff Enraged.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,754
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    This was Dave's biggest error as PM.

    NHS reorganization was his biggest policy error I reckon (and didn't Dave say he agreed?).
    Although the referendum was probably his biggest political error given he wanted us to stay...
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    But why didn't Sir Vince deploy his nuclear weapon over this?

    A government limousine is a government limousine.

    Sir Vince is very clever, though. Who else has realised that if you legalise "ordinary" cannabis, skunk will automatically disappear from our streets. There just won't be the demand for it; no, sirree.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    "Bogus" always conjures up an image of William Hague circa 2000 to me.

    OK, that's Bill. Who's Ted?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    rkrkrk said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    This was Dave's biggest error as PM.

    NHS reorganization was his biggest policy error I reckon (and didn't Dave say he agreed?).
    Although the referendum was probably his biggest political error given he wanted us to stay...
    Despite the hype, the NHS reorganisation didn't ultimately help to end Dave's Premiership.

    This was a narrative changer.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    GeoffM said:

    Well done for finding the only known picture of students that doesn't involve blonde teenage girls cheering about their A Level results.

    At one of the universities I used to work for a leaflet to encourage applicant to study engineering went out of its way to feature women in just about every pic which given they made up less than 5% of students in the department was distorting. The following year recruitment was down and in an effort to find out way several respondents said "I thought it was for women only"
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    rkrkrk said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    This was Dave's biggest error as PM.

    NHS reorganization was his biggest policy error I reckon (and didn't Dave say he agreed?).
    Although the referendum was probably his biggest political error given he wanted us to stay...
    That's a good thread idea. What was Dave's biggest error? I'd say holding the referendum.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    MikeSmithson said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    This was Dave's biggest error as PM.

    NHS reorganization was his biggest policy error I reckon (and didn't Dave say he agreed?).
    Although the referendum was probably his biggest political error given he wanted us to stay...
    That's a good thread idea. What was Dave's biggest error? I'd say holding the referendum.
    I did a thread on that last year.

    Wiping out the Lib Dems might have been Cameron’s greatest strategic mistake as Prime Minister.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/07/24/wiping-out-the-lib-dems-might-have-been-camerons-greatest-strategic-mistake-as-pm/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    edited August 2017
    Pong said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Jezza's mob of fake newers at it again...

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/media/2017/08/did-mainstream-media-smear-jeremy-corbyn-over-traingate

    Weren't you one of Paul Staines's £3 Corbynites?
    No. I would never join any political party for any reason.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    MikeSmithson said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    This was Dave's biggest error as PM.

    NHS reorganization was his biggest policy error I reckon (and didn't Dave say he agreed?).
    Although the referendum was probably his biggest political error given he wanted us to stay...
    That's a good thread idea. What was Dave's biggest error? I'd say holding the referendum.
    By a country mile.

    As it is the biggest policy error since at least the First World War, that wouldn't be a surprise.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    rottenborough said:

    MikeSmithson said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    This was Dave's biggest error as PM.

    NHS reorganization was his biggest policy error I reckon (and didn't Dave say he agreed?).
    Although the referendum was probably his biggest political error given he wanted us to stay...
    That's a good thread idea. What was Dave's biggest error? I'd say holding the referendum.
    By a country mile.

    As it is the biggest policy error since at least the First World War, that wouldn't be a surprise.
    Nah, appeasement wins that award.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Is Vince being deliberately dishonest, or does he really think that the ONS was run by Theresa May?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,228
    FPT
    FF43 said:

    I had a (20W?) lightbulb moment reading the piece in die Welt below. It's worth persevering with Google Translate.

    https://twitter.com/philipoltermann/status/900305130876268545

    -----------------

    @NickPalmer：Yes, that's an interesting article. They say essentially that British policy is oriented to leaving in name only, and that the tabloids and Leave voters haven't yet woken up to it. They conclude that either Britain will remain effectively members, or the government will need to be replaced by one that's serious about leaving. And that isn't really going to happen.

    -----------------

    @rottenborough: LINO - Leaving In Name Only

    Although I now realise that both Remainers and Leavers don't want change, and in the case of Leavers don't expect it, it doesn't mean there will be none. There will be change but we won't be in control of it. We will not do anything serious to enact it and it will be largely up to other parties, especially the EU, the degree to which it can be mitigated.

  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    MikeSmithson said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    This was Dave's biggest error as PM.

    NHS reorganization was his biggest policy error I reckon (and didn't Dave say he agreed?).
    Although the referendum was probably his biggest political error given he wanted us to stay...
    That's a good thread idea. What was Dave's biggest error? I'd say holding the referendum.
    Libya is not his greatest achievement .
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited August 2017
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Pong said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Jezza's mob of fake newers at it again...

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/media/2017/08/did-mainstream-media-smear-jeremy-corbyn-over-traingate

    Weren't you one of Paul Staines's £3 Corbynites?
    No. I would never join any political party for any reason.
    Ok fair enough.

    Out of interest, why not? Surely there's a theoretical political party that you could support?

    Do you not vote, either?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,776
    Mr. Smithson, that's an interesting anecdote. I was surprised that psychology was so massively slanted towards women (95% of my course were ladies).

    Apparently, women and girls find it much easier to put themselves into male protagonists' shoes than men/boys do for female protagonists, which is one reason male leads are still so common. There are exceptions (I think I read at university that Totally Spies was very popular with boys, and that Top Gear, surely the blokiest of blokey things, had a mostly female audience).
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    FF43 said:

    There will be change but we won't be in control of it.

    https://twitter.com/BrianSpanner1/status/746488316510482433
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    All this talk of gender imbalances in different subjects...careful you might get blackballed by Google.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Off topic, I can't imagine why the USA haa such a large prison population

    https://twitter.com/onekade/status/900707938032992257
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    Pong said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Pong said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Jezza's mob of fake newers at it again...

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/media/2017/08/did-mainstream-media-smear-jeremy-corbyn-over-traingate

    Weren't you one of Paul Staines's £3 Corbynites?
    No. I would never join any political party for any reason.
    Ok fair enough.

    Out of interest, why not? Surely there's a theoretical political party that you could support?

    Do you not vote, either?
    I have a healthy distrust of all politicians. I vote with the mindset of choosing the least worst option.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,135
    MikeSmithson said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    This was Dave's biggest error as PM.

    NHS reorganization was his biggest policy error I reckon (and didn't Dave say he agreed?).
    Although the referendum was probably his biggest political error given he wanted us to stay...
    That's a good thread idea. What was Dave's biggest error? I'd say holding the referendum.
    No. Giving the people a say in an issue where they otherwise had no voice was not an error.

    Assuming he would win at a canter was.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,097
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Smithson, that's an interesting anecdote. I was surprised that psychology was so massively slanted towards women (95% of my course were ladies).

    Apparently, women and girls find it much easier to put themselves into male protagonists' shoes than men/boys do for female protagonists, which is one reason male leads are still so common. There are exceptions (I think I read at university that Totally Spies was very popular with boys, and that Top Gear, surely the blokiest of blokey things, had a mostly female audience).

    The Top Gear audience was enforced by the producers. If you applied for tickets you had to have at least a 50/50 gender split in your group or they’d turn you down.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    Unlucky Spurs.

    Hooray for Liverpool
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Alistair said:

    Off topic, I can't imagine why the USA haa such a large prison population

    https://twitter.com/onekade/status/900707938032992257

    I fail to see why the highlighted passage matters. Being present or not has never been relevant in conspiracy charges. Charles Manson wasn't present for the Tate murders so should he not have been convicted for those?
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Is Vince being deliberately dishonest, or does he really think that the ONS was run by Theresa May?

    Deliberatedly I would say, he is possibly the most dishonest politician out there.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,776
    Mr. Sandpit, audience as in viewing figures, although I suspect you're being silly :p

    Anyway, as I mentioned before but in case anyone interested missed it, just one early tip this time. Raikkonen to 'win' qualifying each way at 17. Should be more like 6.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,135
    Sandpit said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Smithson, that's an interesting anecdote. I was surprised that psychology was so massively slanted towards women (95% of my course were ladies).

    Apparently, women and girls find it much easier to put themselves into male protagonists' shoes than men/boys do for female protagonists, which is one reason male leads are still so common. There are exceptions (I think I read at university that Totally Spies was very popular with boys, and that Top Gear, surely the blokiest of blokey things, had a mostly female audience).

    The Top Gear audience was enforced by the producers. If you applied for tickets you had to have at least a 50/50 gender split in your group or they’d turn you down.
    There was certainly always a very easy on the eye not always fully covered woman standing directly behind the presenters. If that is the BBC's gender equality god help us.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Thought-experiment: Imagine a hypothetical speech by the Home Secretary in 2015, claiming that she had successfully solved the problem of bogus students overstaying their visas, and that the ONS figures showing otherwise were wrong.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    This does raise an important point that isn't considered often enough. We often see evidence-based policy-making praised, but what if the evidence is rubbish?

    As it happens, on this occasion the wrong inference was drawn from the rubbish evidence anyway (if there's one group of migrants that we should be happy to have staying, it's British degree-educated migrants), but the point still stands.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Just to make sure I understand:

    1. There was a problem (this was principally "fake colleges" rather than dodgy students at real universities

    2. The Home Office introduced new rules

    3. Now that the new rules are operational, very few students overstay their welcome

    That doesn't mean there was no problem in the past. It could mean that the rules changes have fixed the problem.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited August 2017
    Incidentally, if you want to see naked prejudice at its most shameless, this is a good place to start your research:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/24/is-it-ok-to-be-friends-with-a-tory

    Astonishingly (or perhaps not), Joseph Harker, who seems to think prejudice and stirring up hatred are virtues, is the Guardian’s deputy opinion editor.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Unlucky Spurs.

    Hooray for Liverpool

    Who the hell are Qarabag....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,097
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Sandpit, audience as in viewing figures, although I suspect you're being silly :p

    Anyway, as I mentioned before but in case anyone interested missed it, just one early tip this time. Raikkonen to 'win' qualifying each way at 17. Should be more like 6.

    Ah okay, maybe you were thinking of the TV audience and I was thinking of the studio audience for the programme.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Unlucky Spurs.

    Hooray for Liverpool

    Who the hell are Qarabag....
    Azerbaijan champions.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    Juve, Barca and Olympiakos in Group D. Here's Celtic....

    Celtic won't be going far then this year....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Incidentally, if you want to see naked prejudice at its most shameless, this is a good place to start your research:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/24/is-it-ok-to-be-friends-with-a-tory

    Astonishingly (or perhaps not), Joseph Harker, who seems to think prejudice and stirring up hatred are virtues, is the Guardian’s deputy opinion editor.

    Aren't they all too busy at Guardian towers getting worked up about statues to worry about this stuff?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Aren't they all too busy at Guardian towers getting worked up about statues to worry about this stuff?

    Their wells of indignation are bottomless.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,097
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Unlucky Spurs.

    Hooray for Liverpool

    Spurs not as unlucky as Celtic though.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    edited August 2017
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Unlucky Spurs.

    Hooray for Liverpool

    Who the hell are Qarabag....
    Azerbaijan champions.
    So Chelsea fans can mix their nice winter trips to the warmer climes of Madrid and Rome with a trek to freezing cold of Baku...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Juve, Barca and Olympiakos in Group D. Here's Celtic....

    Celtic won't be going far then this year....

    No Sporting Lisbon were the 4th Group D team, Celtic aren't Group D. Celtic are Group B with Bayern Munich, PSG and Anderlecht.

    Celtic won't be going far then this year....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,776
    Mr. Nabavi, the other day it seems there was a Guardian bout of verbal diarrhoea supporting the notion of censorship on the internet.

    Anyway, I must be off. F1 returns tomorrow. Huzzah!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    Sandpit said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Unlucky Spurs.

    Hooray for Liverpool

    Spurs not as unlucky as Celtic though.
    But Celtic weren't expected to go far. Spurs might well have if they had a decent draw.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Liverpool are lucky!

    Spartak Moscow, Sevilla and Maribor. No reason the Reds can't qualify from that group.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    edited August 2017
    Philip_Thompson said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Juve, Barca and Olympiakos in Group D. Here's Celtic....

    Celtic won't be going far then this year....

    No Sporting Lisbon were the 4th Group D team, Celtic aren't Group D. Celtic are Group B with Bayern Munich, PSG and Anderlecht.

    Celtic won't be going far then this year....
    Woophs my mistake I misread the BBC feed. As you say different teams, same result.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Incidentally, if you want to see naked prejudice at its most shameless, this is a good place to start your research:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/24/is-it-ok-to-be-friends-with-a-tory

    Astonishingly (or perhaps not), Joseph Harker, who seems to think prejudice and stirring up hatred are virtues, is the Guardian’s deputy opinion editor.

    Mr Harker has never topped this early effort:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/oct/04/osborne-child-benfit-war-families
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    http://voxeu.org/article/eurozone-economic-recovery-humming-along-just-fine

    The divergence between Spain and Italy is stunning and shows what you can achieve with the right policies.

    image
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sandpit said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Unlucky Spurs.

    Hooray for Liverpool

    Spurs not as unlucky as Celtic though.
    But Celtic weren't expected to go far. Spurs might well have if they had a decent draw.
    At least Spurs have a got a banker against the mighty Apoel Nicosia.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited August 2017
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Incidentally, if you want to see naked prejudice at its most shameless, this is a good place to start your research:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/24/is-it-ok-to-be-friends-with-a-tory

    Astonishingly (or perhaps not), Joseph Harker, who seems to think prejudice and stirring up hatred are virtues, is the Guardian’s deputy opinion editor.

    Mr Harker has never topped this early effort:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/oct/04/osborne-child-benfit-war-families
    Bravo! I'd forgotten that - I thought at the time it must be a spoof!

    "not since China's one-child rule has there been such a penalty for having kids."
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Alistair said:

    Off topic, I can't imagine why the USA haa such a large prison population

    https://twitter.com/onekade/status/900707938032992257

    I fail to see why the highlighted passage matters. Being present or not has never been relevant in conspiracy charges. Charles Manson wasn't present for the Tate murders so should he not have been convicted for those?
    Surely entrapment though?

    Quite similar to Sorrells vs United States and Sherman vs United States.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    edited August 2017
    My favourite Guardian rant....the Thomas the Tank Engine is responsible for all sorts of un-pc evils.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,097
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Juve, Barca and Olympiakos in Group D. Here's Celtic....

    Celtic won't be going far then this year....

    No Sporting Lisbon were the 4th Group D team, Celtic aren't Group D. Celtic are Group B with Bayern Munich, PSG and Anderlecht.

    Celtic won't be going far then this year....
    Woophs my mistake I misread the BBC feed. As you say different teams, same result.
    Full draw:
    Group A Benfica, Man Utd, Basel, CSKA Moscow
    Group B Bayern Munich, PSG, Anderlecht, Celtic
    Group C Chelsea, Atletico Madrid, Roma, Qarabag
    Group D Juventus, Barcelona, Olympiakos, Sporting
    Group E Spartak Moscow, Sevilla, Liverpool, Maribor
    Group F Shakhtar, Man City, Napoli, Feyenoord
    Group G Monaco, Porto, Besiktas, RB Leipzig
    Group H Real Madrid, Dortmund, Tottenham, APOEL
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Charles said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Alistair said:

    Off topic, I can't imagine why the USA haa such a large prison population

    https://twitter.com/onekade/status/900707938032992257

    I fail to see why the highlighted passage matters. Being present or not has never been relevant in conspiracy charges. Charles Manson wasn't present for the Tate murders so should he not have been convicted for those?
    Surely entrapment though?

    Quite similar to Sorrells vs United States and Sherman vs United States.
    Yes entrapment was the relevant part of the story. Not the highlighted passage of the fact she wasn't present.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    Sandpit said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Juve, Barca and Olympiakos in Group D. Here's Celtic....

    Celtic won't be going far then this year....

    No Sporting Lisbon were the 4th Group D team, Celtic aren't Group D. Celtic are Group B with Bayern Munich, PSG and Anderlecht.

    Celtic won't be going far then this year....
    Woophs my mistake I misread the BBC feed. As you say different teams, same result.
    Full draw:
    Group A Benfica, Man Utd, Basel, CSKA Moscow
    Group B Bayern Munich, PSG, Anderlecht, Celtic
    Group C Chelsea, Atletico Madrid, Roma, Qarabag
    Group D Juventus, Barcelona, Olympiakos, Sporting
    Group E Spartak Moscow, Sevilla, Liverpool, Maribor
    Group F Shakhtar, Man City, Napoli, Feyenoord
    Group G Monaco, Porto, Besiktas, RB Leipzig
    Group H Real Madrid, Dortmund, Tottenham, APOEL
    I feel we are going to see a load of dead rubbers in the last couple of match weeks.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    FF43 said:

    FPT

    FF43 said:

    I had a (20W?) lightbulb moment reading the piece in die Welt below. It's worth persevering with Google Translate.

    https://twitter.com/philipoltermann/status/900305130876268545

    -----------------

    @NickPalmer：Yes, that's an interesting article. They say essentially that British policy is oriented to leaving in name only, and that the tabloids and Leave voters haven't yet woken up to it. They conclude that either Britain will remain effectively members, or the government will need to be replaced by one that's serious about leaving. And that isn't really going to happen.

    -----------------

    @rottenborough: LINO - Leaving In Name Only

    Although I now realise that both Remainers and Leavers don't want change, and in the case of Leavers don't expect it, it doesn't mean there will be none. There will be change but we won't be in control of it. We will not do anything serious to enact it and it will be largely up to other parties, especially the EU, the degree to which it can be mitigated.

    Interesting thoughts, but I don't think that the Leavers anticipate no change, but that they expect to keep the benefits of EU membership without costs. The leading Leaver politicians don't want much change, but the man in the Hartlepool Wetherspoons does. I can see problems ahead due to that.

    Will Leaverstan be a better place in 10 years time? I think that very unlikely.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    edited August 2017
    From the Guardian

    The fruits of my mathematical labour – all Champions League groups ranked by the combined Uefa coefficient of the teams involved to produce your handy cut-out-and-keep groupofdeathometer:

    Group H: Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Tottenham, Apoel Nicosia 405.3

    Group D : Juventus, Barcelona, Olympiakos, Sporting Clube de Portugal 394.111

    Group B: Bayern Munich, Paris St-Germain, Anderlecht, Celtic 382.857

    Group A: Benfica, Manchester United, Basel, CSKA Moscow 321.069

    Group C: Chelsea, Atlético Madrid, Roma, Qarabag 320.907

    Group F: Shakhtar Donetsk, Manchester City, Napoli, Feyenoord 299.596

    Group G: Monaco, Porto, Besiktas, Leipzig 222.938

    Group E: Spartak Moscow, Sevilla, Liverpool, Maribor 208.922
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    Look on the bright side Spurs fans, you've got further in this season's champions league than Arsenal.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Look on the bright side Spurs fans, you've got further in this season's champions league than Arsenal.

    And as a bonus they stand a decent chance of meeting in the Europa League.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,000
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    From the Guardian

    The fruits of my mathematical labour – all Champions League groups ranked by the combined Uefa coefficient of the teams involved to produce your handy cut-out-and-keep groupofdeathometer:

    Group H: Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Tottenham, Apoel Nicosia 405.3

    Group D : Juventus, Barcelona, Olympiakos, Sporting Clube de Portugal 394.111

    Group B: Bayern Munich, Paris St-Germain, Anderlecht, Celtic 382.857

    Group A: Benfica, Manchester United, Basel, CSKA Moscow 321.069

    Group C: Chelsea, Atlético Madrid, Roma, Qarabag 320.907

    Group F: Shakhtar Donetsk, Manchester City, Napoli, Feyenoord 299.596

    Group G: Monaco, Porto, Besiktas, Leipzig 222.938

    Group E: Spartak Moscow, Sevilla, Liverpool, Maribor 208.922

    Poor Spurs. With the Wembley factor very hard to see them making it into the knockout.

    For United it's just that trip to Moscow. May cost PL points.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,862
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Incidentally, if you want to see naked prejudice at its most shameless, this is a good place to start your research:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/24/is-it-ok-to-be-friends-with-a-tory

    Astonishingly (or perhaps not), Joseph Harker, who seems to think prejudice and stirring up hatred are virtues, is the Guardian’s deputy opinion editor.

    Think what it'll be like when the Corbynites actually take power..
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Casino_Royale said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Incidentally, if you want to see naked prejudice at its most shameless, this is a good place to start your research:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/24/is-it-ok-to-be-friends-with-a-tory

    Astonishingly (or perhaps not), Joseph Harker, who seems to think prejudice and stirring up hatred are virtues, is the Guardian’s deputy opinion editor.

    Think what it'll be like when the Corbynites actually take power..
    We already have crazed zealots in charge who are constantly accusing anyone that they see as ideologically suspect of being saboteurs, quislings or enemies of the people.

    Do explain the difference.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Casino_Royale said:

    Think what it'll be like when the Corbynites actually take power..

    https://twitter.com/LeaveHQ/status/900700786723827712
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    From the Guardian

    The fruits of my mathematical labour – all Champions League groups ranked by the combined Uefa coefficient of the teams involved to produce your handy cut-out-and-keep groupofdeathometer:

    Group H: Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Tottenham, Apoel Nicosia 405.3

    Group D : Juventus, Barcelona, Olympiakos, Sporting Clube de Portugal 394.111

    Group B: Bayern Munich, Paris St-Germain, Anderlecht, Celtic 382.857

    Group A: Benfica, Manchester United, Basel, CSKA Moscow 321.069

    Group C: Chelsea, Atlético Madrid, Roma, Qarabag 320.907

    Group F: Shakhtar Donetsk, Manchester City, Napoli, Feyenoord 299.596

    Group G: Monaco, Porto, Besiktas, Leipzig 222.938

    Group E: Spartak Moscow, Sevilla, Liverpool, Maribor 208.922

    Poor Spurs. With the Wembley factor very hard to see them making it into the knockout.

    For United it's just that trip to Moscow. May cost PL points.
    This was most Liverpool fans during the draw, but I was keen on facing Real Madrid and Dortmund, (I really wanted Barca)

    https://twitter.com/LFCFansCorner/status/900760275544141824
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited August 2017
    So why did Cable say nothing about it both before and after the Eection 2015 and wait until now.... and get all huffy puffy about it ? I think we know the answer......


    Silly season story to give Vince some prominence.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,250
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Incidentally, if you want to see naked prejudice at its most shameless, this is a good place to start your research:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/24/is-it-ok-to-be-friends-with-a-tory

    Astonishingly (or perhaps not), Joseph Harker, who seems to think prejudice and stirring up hatred are virtues, is the Guardian’s deputy opinion editor.

    Think what it'll be like when the Corbynites actually take power..
    We already have crazed zealots in charge who are constantly accusing anyone that they see as ideologically suspect of being saboteurs, quislings or enemies of the people.

    Do explain the difference.
    We're the right sort of zealots.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    SquareRoot said:

    So why did Cable say nothing out it both before and after the election , and why is he suddenly getting all huffy puffy about it now. I think we know the answer......

    One of the most useless ministers in the Coalition.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    AlastairMeeks said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Look on the bright side Spurs fans, you've got further in this season's champions league than Arsenal.

    And as a bonus they stand a decent chance of meeting in the Europa League.
    I really enjoyed the Liverpool v Manchester United Europa League tie last year, when Philippe Coutinho wasn't breaking my heart.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Sean_F said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Incidentally, if you want to see naked prejudice at its most shameless, this is a good place to start your research:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/24/is-it-ok-to-be-friends-with-a-tory

    Astonishingly (or perhaps not), Joseph Harker, who seems to think prejudice and stirring up hatred are virtues, is the Guardian’s deputy opinion editor.

    Think what it'll be like when the Corbynites actually take power..
    We already have crazed zealots in charge who are constantly accusing anyone that they see as ideologically suspect of being saboteurs, quislings or enemies of the people.

    Do explain the difference.
    We're the right sort of zealots.
    In my bleak moments I imagine taking all the Brexit loonies and the Corbynites, and sticking them all on an island, letting them rot together in mutual loathing.

    And then in my bleakest moments I realise that I'm already on it.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    SquareRoot said:

    So why did Cable say nothing out it both before and after the election , and why is he suddenly getting all huffy puffy about it now. I think we know the answer......

    One of the most useless ministers in the Coalition.
    That's unfair. He had some notable successes, such as introducing increased tuition fees and privatising Royal Mail.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,250
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Incidentally, if you want to see naked prejudice at its most shameless, this is a good place to start your research:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/24/is-it-ok-to-be-friends-with-a-tory

    Astonishingly (or perhaps not), Joseph Harker, who seems to think prejudice and stirring up hatred are virtues, is the Guardian’s deputy opinion editor.

    He also includes Blairites as Tories. I'm guessing that his circle of friends is limited.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,862
    Presumably, then, those now attacking Theresa May for insisting on keeping student numbers in the net migration target all along, and arguing for them to be taken out, will now be happy for them to stay in for good given that officially it makes very little difference either way?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    These poor kids or is this really poor grammar and punctuation from The Telegraph?

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/900609872147881984
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    These poor kids or is this really poor grammar and punctuation from The Telegraph?

    It would certainly be a novel way of dealing with the problem of educational inequality.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,097
    edited August 2017
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    These poor kids or is this really poor grammar and punctuation from The Telegraph?

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/900609872147881984

    That’s what happens when all the sub-editors get fired!*

    *lose their jobs, rather than shot from a cannon or put in a clay oven.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    What a shit show the Telegraph is these days.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,000
    edited August 2017
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    From the Guardian

    The fruits of my mathematical labour – all Champions League groups ranked by the combined Uefa coefficient of the teams involved to produce your handy cut-out-and-keep groupofdeathometer:

    Group H: Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Tottenham, Apoel Nicosia 405.3

    Group D : Juventus, Barcelona, Olympiakos, Sporting Clube de Portugal 394.111

    Group B: Bayern Munich, Paris St-Germain, Anderlecht, Celtic 382.857

    Group A: Benfica, Manchester United, Basel, CSKA Moscow 321.069

    Group C: Chelsea, Atlético Madrid, Roma, Qarabag 320.907

    Group F: Shakhtar Donetsk, Manchester City, Napoli, Feyenoord 299.596

    Group G: Monaco, Porto, Besiktas, Leipzig 222.938

    Group E: Spartak Moscow, Sevilla, Liverpool, Maribor 208.922

    Poor Spurs. With the Wembley factor very hard to see them making it into the knockout.

    For United it's just that trip to Moscow. May cost PL points.
    This was most Liverpool fans during the draw, but I was keen on facing Real Madrid and Dortmund, (I really wanted Barca)

    https://twitter.com/LFCFansCorner/status/900760275544141824
    Easy easy for Liverpool. But not a lot of glamour.

    I think Barca will be well short of the mark this year. They need a couple of decent buys and I don't mean Coutinho.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,000
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Sean_F said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Incidentally, if you want to see naked prejudice at its most shameless, this is a good place to start your research:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/24/is-it-ok-to-be-friends-with-a-tory

    Astonishingly (or perhaps not), Joseph Harker, who seems to think prejudice and stirring up hatred are virtues, is the Guardian’s deputy opinion editor.

    Think what it'll be like when the Corbynites actually take power..
    We already have crazed zealots in charge who are constantly accusing anyone that they see as ideologically suspect of being saboteurs, quislings or enemies of the people.

    Do explain the difference.
    We're the right sort of zealots.
    In my bleak moments I imagine taking all the Brexit loonies and the Corbynites, and sticking them all on an island, letting them rot together in mutual loathing.

    And then in my bleakest moments I realise that I'm already on it.
    Always look on the bright side of life Alastair.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    BREAKING: #Charleston police confirm ‘active shooter’ situation
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    edited August 2017
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    BREAKING: #Charleston police confirm ‘active shooter’ situation

    FFS...if that was the Telegraph reporting this it could easily be a "active hooters" situation.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,862
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Incidentally, if you want to see naked prejudice at its most shameless, this is a good place to start your research:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/24/is-it-ok-to-be-friends-with-a-tory

    Astonishingly (or perhaps not), Joseph Harker, who seems to think prejudice and stirring up hatred are virtues, is the Guardian’s deputy opinion editor.

    Think what it'll be like when the Corbynites actually take power..
    We already have crazed zealots in charge who are constantly accusing anyone that they see as ideologically suspect of being saboteurs, quislings or enemies of the people.

    Do explain the difference.
    We're very far from the equivalence you think there is.

    But I'm happy to talk to you and have a drink with you for a start.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Alistair said:

    Off topic, I can't imagine why the USA haa such a large prison population

    https://twitter.com/onekade/status/900707938032992257

    I fail to see why the highlighted passage matters. Being present or not has never been relevant in conspiracy charges. Charles Manson wasn't present for the Tate murders so should he not have been convicted for those?
    Ignoring the highlighted bit the story is jaw dropping. The government paid a man to become her boyfriend and then encourage her to break the law.

    Less than unacceptable.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Sean_F said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Incidentally, if you want to see naked prejudice at its most shameless, this is a good place to start your research:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/24/is-it-ok-to-be-friends-with-a-tory

    Astonishingly (or perhaps not), Joseph Harker, who seems to think prejudice and stirring up hatred are virtues, is the Guardian’s deputy opinion editor.

    Think what it'll be like when the Corbynites actually take power..
    We already have crazed zealots in charge who are constantly accusing anyone that they see as ideologically suspect of being saboteurs, quislings or enemies of the people.

    Do explain the difference.
    We're the right sort of zealots.
    In my bleak moments I imagine taking all the Brexit loonies and the Corbynites, and sticking them all on an island, letting them rot together in mutual loathing.

    And then in my bleakest moments I realise that I'm already on it.
    FWIW, I had a very pleasant dinner with a Hungarian friend of mine last night. He's moving to London to get away from the racists, loonies and fruitcakes back in Budapest.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    edited August 2017
    BBC reporting fake news about traingate...which even the New Statesman says is horseshit.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41036937

    Can I report the BBC to facebook or something for spreading Fake News?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,198
    I don't think the average Leave voter was bothered by foreign students (unless they turned to Islamic extremism) it was low skilled immigration, especially from Eastern Europe they wanted reduced
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    From the Guardian

    The fruits of my mathematical labour – all Champions League groups ranked by the combined Uefa coefficient of the teams involved to produce your handy cut-out-and-keep groupofdeathometer:

    Group H: Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Tottenham, Apoel Nicosia 405.3

    Group D : Juventus, Barcelona, Olympiakos, Sporting Clube de Portugal 394.111

    Group B: Bayern Munich, Paris St-Germain, Anderlecht, Celtic 382.857

    Group A: Benfica, Manchester United, Basel, CSKA Moscow 321.069

    Group C: Chelsea, Atlético Madrid, Roma, Qarabag 320.907

    Group F: Shakhtar Donetsk, Manchester City, Napoli, Feyenoord 299.596

    Group G: Monaco, Porto, Besiktas, Leipzig 222.938

    Group E: Spartak Moscow, Sevilla, Liverpool, Maribor 208.922

    Poor Spurs. With the Wembley factor very hard to see them making it into the knockout.

    For United it's just that trip to Moscow. May cost PL points.
    This was most Liverpool fans during the draw, but I was keen on facing Real Madrid and Dortmund, (I really wanted Barca)

    https://twitter.com/LFCFansCorner/status/900760275544141824
    Easy easy for Liverpool. But not a lot of glamour.

    I think Barca will be well short of the mark this year. They need a couple of decent buys and I don't mean Coutinho.
    They've done a deal with Dortmund for Dembele for £154 million.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,862
    Sean_F said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Incidentally, if you want to see naked prejudice at its most shameless, this is a good place to start your research:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/24/is-it-ok-to-be-friends-with-a-tory

    Astonishingly (or perhaps not), Joseph Harker, who seems to think prejudice and stirring up hatred are virtues, is the Guardian’s deputy opinion editor.

    He also includes Blairites as Tories. I'm guessing that his circle of friends is limited.
    I suspect he's all fart and follow through.

    In person he wouldn't have the bollocks to be that rude, and would be as friendly to you as to anyone else, possibly muttering something about you being 'a reasonable sensible Tory', and just continue his prejudices unchallenged to those he thinks have sympathetic ears once you're out of earshot.

    Meanwhile you might say to that same person later, with them nodding along, that he was a bit of a pompous wanker.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    Charles said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Sean_F said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Incidentally, if you want to see naked prejudice at its most shameless, this is a good place to start your research:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/24/is-it-ok-to-be-friends-with-a-tory

    Astonishingly (or perhaps not), Joseph Harker, who seems to think prejudice and stirring up hatred are virtues, is the Guardian’s deputy opinion editor.

    Think what it'll be like when the Corbynites actually take power..
    We already have crazed zealots in charge who are constantly accusing anyone that they see as ideologically suspect of being saboteurs, quislings or enemies of the people.

    Do explain the difference.
    We're the right sort of zealots.
    In my bleak moments I imagine taking all the Brexit loonies and the Corbynites, and sticking them all on an island, letting them rot together in mutual loathing.

    And then in my bleakest moments I realise that I'm already on it.
    FWIW, I had a very pleasant dinner with a Hungarian friend of mine last night. He's moving to London to get away from the racists, loonies and fruitcakes back in Budapest.
    I presume he means the local Hungarian's, rather than rich English lawyer types who have second home there.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,198
    williamglenn said:

    http://voxeu.org/article/eurozone-economic-recovery-humming-along-just-fine

    The divergence between Spain and Italy is stunning and shows what you can achieve with the right policies.

    image

    Of course Germany does well out of the Eurozone because it is set up to benefit the German economy above all, hence Berlusconi's coalition leads polls for the Italian general election next year on a platform of a dual currency
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,862
    williamglenn said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Think what it'll be like when the Corbynites actually take power..

    https://twitter.com/LeaveHQ/status/900700786723827712
    Tell me, how does your mind work?

    I find the psychology fascinating.

    Your answer to an argument with my wife, my car breaking down or a bad day at work would be "more Europe".

    Are you actually that fanatical, or do you think that if you simply repeat "more Europe" often enough to me that it'll somehow seep into my subconscious and I'll somehow subliminally become a europhile before I even realise it's happened?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,198
    Casino_Royale said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Incidentally, if you want to see naked prejudice at its most shameless, this is a good place to start your research:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/24/is-it-ok-to-be-friends-with-a-tory

    Astonishingly (or perhaps not), Joseph Harker, who seems to think prejudice and stirring up hatred are virtues, is the Guardian’s deputy opinion editor.

    Think what it'll be like when the Corbynites actually take power..
    They have to get a few more Tories to vote for them before they can do that
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