politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Hung Parliaments are becoming the norm and we have to get used
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I've just provided photographic evidence where people can walk across the Canada-US border without a border guard in sight. So much for being "hard".williamglenn said:
Does Canada not have a comprehensive trade deal with the US of the kind you are suggesting the EU needs to give us? Yet they still have a hard border.Richard_Nabavi said:If the Irish PM doesn't want a hard border, then he needs to address himself to persuading his EU colleagues of the obvious truth: that they need to get on with agreeing a comprehensive trade deal with the UK that will make such a border unnecessary. This really isn't hard to understand, especially since it will be the EU which will be insisting on the border checks.
Clearly this is needs a political solution and it is unrelated to trade discussions. It really isn't hard to understand...0 -
I'm confused - is Mrs May now being criticised for being too pragmatic, or not pragmatic enough?0
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So out of the UK's approximately £550 billion of exports, roughly what 'huge proportion' is financed by the UK government?Charles said:
A huge proportion of international trade from all countries is financed like thiswilliamglenn said:
You don't think it's revealing that it's the finance deal from the government they're bigging up rather than the alleged contract?nigel4england said:
Sad to say that this really sums you upwilliamglenn said:It's time for anyone who mocked the promise of 'global Britain' to eat humble pie.
https://twitter.com/tkbeynon/status/900300471746912257
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-41011700
"Our ability to offer finance from UK Export Finance in Mexican pesos was a significant benefit to our buyer, helping us win this major contract."
Sounds like vendor financing underwritten by the UK government. Is the government going to get its money back?0 -
The idea of Remain as a force is to create a narrative which facilitates both, while neither is actually true.Richard_Nabavi said:I'm confused - is Mrs May now being criticised for being too pragmatic, or not pragmatic enough?
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She is apparently disowning her own Government paper on Brexit.Richard_Nabavi said:I'm confused - is Mrs May now being criticised for being too pragmatic, or not pragmatic enough?
How pragmatic is that on your scale?0 -
What the rest of the UK exits to is irrelevant. Northern Ireland must stay in the single market and customs union.Richard_Nabavi said:
Of course it need a political solution: the EU27 need to stop this absurd and irrational pretence that anything substantial can be agreed on exit arrangements and the border, without agreeing first on what we are exiting to.williamglenn said:
Does Canada not have a comprehensive trade deal with the US of the kind you are suggesting the EU needs to give us? Yet they still have a hard border.Richard_Nabavi said:If the Irish PM doesn't want a hard border, then he needs to address himself to persuading his EU colleagues of the obvious truth: that they need to get on with agreeing a comprehensive trade deal with the UK that will make such a border unnecessary. This really isn't hard to understand, especially since it will be the EU which will be insisting on the border checks.
Clearly this is needs a political solution and it is unrelated to trade discussions. It really isn't hard to understand...0 -
In 2014 for instance there were 100 000 applicants for nurses courses for just 20 000 places, the problem has not been lack of applicants but lack of training places which the government is now addressingfoxinsoxuk said:
Plenty of those unfilled in clearing too, as well as 30 000 nursing vacancies nationwide.HYUFD said:
In the case of nurses though more training places are being provided to address the historic oversupply of applicants to placesfoxinsoxuk said:
On that subject:FF43 said:
That too. The immigrants that are most put off are those that are most marketable and have choices about where they go.FeersumEnjineeya said:
We can also get immigration numbers down by trashing the pound, currently at an 8-year low against the euro aside from the flash crash last October. People aren't going to come if they can only earn peanuts.FF43 said:
You are deflecting. We are brexiting. We can choose to do that in an openminded, competent way ks.isam said:
What we need is a strong advocate of Britain remaining in the EU at the Home OfficeFF43 said:
In that case the UKBA is almost certainly acting unlawfully, even if t issues.geoffw said:re Holmberg deportation case:
https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/wednesdays_papers_turku_stabbing_investigation_brexit_problems_and_johaugs_tears/9792490
Btw if you try Google translate the Helsingin Sanomat article referred to earlier you'll be totally befuddled because Google translate cannot cope with the lack of a distinction between "he" and "she" in Finnish.
http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/your-practice/practice-topics/employment/600-overseas-gps-to-be-recruited-for-english-practices-by-april/20035133.article
And a campaign to recruit GPs from Australia? ROFL! there are 350 fewer GPs than 2015, despite Hunt's promised 5000 recruits.
Lots of undergraduate medical school places in clearing too. Nearly all medical schools unable to fill their courses.
Its almost as if our country is governed by incompetents...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2878312/80-000-UK-students-told-t-train-nurse-Thousands-t-courses-despite-four-five-new-NHS-workers-foreign.html0 -
Much more likely is the wrong computer generated letter was sentFF43 said:
I understand that she would be deported except for her absolute and now, thanks to Brexit, time limited right to stay in the UK under EU FoM rules.Charles said:
Isn't it simply she made a mistake and the Home Office responded with a "computer says no" mentality. Worthy of criticism, yes, but any connection to Brexit is merely circumstantialFF43 said:
You are deflecting. We are brexiting. We can choose to do that in an openminded, competent way or we can do it the way the government is doing it, urged on by certain Leavers. One thing I have learnt since the referendum is that you can get immigration numbers down by being unpleasant to would be immigrants. It isn't "control" in any meaningful sense but if you want to be closed rather than open, it works.isam said:
What we need is a strong advocate of Britain remaining in the EU at the Home OfficeFF43 said:
In that case the UKBA is almost certainly acting unlawfully, even if acting according to their procedures. Ms Sanomat has an absolute right to residence under EU FoM rules. After Brexit she would have no guarantees or recourse to the courts under UK proposals even if she nominally had the rights to be here under treaty. These are significant issues.geoffw said:re Holmberg deportation case:
https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/wednesdays_papers_turku_stabbing_investigation_brexit_problems_and_johaugs_tears/9792490
Btw if you try Google translate the Helsingin Sanomat article referred to earlier you'll be totally befuddled because Google translate cannot cope with the lack of a distinction between "he" and "she" in Finnish.0 -
Not a single Leaver on thread has yet come forward to say that they think that people like Dr Holmberg should be permitted (never mind encouraged) to stay in the UK. So in a couple of years time we can look forward to them all enthusiastically cheering the deportation of future Dr Holmbergs.FF43 said:
Actually it isn't. The Home Office screw up can be disregarded because she has rights accorded to her by EU treaty as well as recourse to the courts. After Brexit she won't under UK proposals. This one of the key Article 50 negotiating points.Richard_Nabavi said:
And, tucked in at the end of the article, is the revelation that it's a non-story:CarlottaVance said:I see George is onto the Finnish historian case:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/leading-finnish-historian-threatened-with-detention-and-deportation-in-absurd-brexit-ruling-by-home-a3618176.html
A Home Office spokesman said Dr Holmberg’s letter should not have been sent, adding hers was not the only case.
He said: “A limited number of letters were issued in error and we have been urgently looking into why this happened.
"We are contacting everyone who received this letter to clarify that they can disregard it."
Sorry, Alastair - this is an old-fashioned Home Office screw-up, not an example of Brexit over-enthusiasm.0 -
Border police can and do operate up to 100 miles away from the US Canada Border, and can stop anyone in that zone under border control regulations and laws, require them to prove their immigration status etc.CornishJohn said:
I've just provided photographic evidence where people can walk across the Canada-US border without a border guard in sight. So much for being "hard".williamglenn said:
Does Canada not have a comprehensive trade deal with the US of the kind you are suggesting the EU needs to give us? Yet they still have a hard border.Richard_Nabavi said:If the Irish PM doesn't want a hard border, then he needs to address himself to persuading his EU colleagues of the obvious truth: that they need to get on with agreeing a comprehensive trade deal with the UK that will make such a border unnecessary. This really isn't hard to understand, especially since it will be the EU which will be insisting on the border checks.
Clearly this is needs a political solution and it is unrelated to trade discussions. It really isn't hard to understand...0 -
@mckinneytweets: A softening of the red line here: paper envisages "voluntary references" to the EU court to interpret rules that replicate EU laws.
@mckinneytweets: That looks like a concession. Let's see whether enough for the EU (or too much for Brexiter die-hards)0 -
And if they don't ?Richard_Nabavi said:
Of course it need a political solution: the EU27 need to stop this absurd and irrational pretence that anything substantial can be agreed on exit arrangements and the border, without agreeing first on what we are exiting to.williamglenn said:
Does Canada not have a comprehensive trade deal with the US of the kind you are suggesting the EU needs to give us? Yet they still have a hard border.Richard_Nabavi said:If the Irish PM doesn't want a hard border, then he needs to address himself to persuading his EU colleagues of the obvious truth: that they need to get on with agreeing a comprehensive trade deal with the UK that will make such a border unnecessary. This really isn't hard to understand, especially since it will be the EU which will be insisting on the border checks.
Clearly this is needs a political solution and it is unrelated to trade discussions. It really isn't hard to understand...
The possibility of a hard Brexit happening because the two sides can't agree on the negotiation process - despite there being common ground on the shape of a prospective deal - is quite significant.0 -
How would most folk on here know the true facts about Dr Holmberg? Jumping to conclusions is for the ill-informed.AlastairMeeks said:
Not a single Leaver on thread has yet come forward to say that they think that people like Dr Holmberg should be permitted (never mind encouraged) to stay in the UK. So in a couple of years time we can look forward to them all enthusiastically cheering the deportation of future Dr Holmbergs.FF43 said:
Actually it isn't. The Home Office screw up can be disregarded because she has rights accorded to her by EU treaty as well as recourse to the courts. After Brexit she won't under UK proposals. This one of the key Article 50 negotiating points.Richard_Nabavi said:
And, tucked in at the end of the article, is the revelation that it's a non-story:CarlottaVance said:I see George is onto the Finnish historian case:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/leading-finnish-historian-threatened-with-detention-and-deportation-in-absurd-brexit-ruling-by-home-a3618176.html
A Home Office spokesman said Dr Holmberg’s letter should not have been sent, adding hers was not the only case.
He said: “A limited number of letters were issued in error and we have been urgently looking into why this happened.
"We are contacting everyone who received this letter to clarify that they can disregard it."
Sorry, Alastair - this is an old-fashioned Home Office screw-up, not an example of Brexit over-enthusiasm.
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Well the DUP hold the balance of power and backed Brexit but want some arrangement on the single market for NI so something may well be worked outwilliamglenn said:
What the rest of the UK exits to is irrelevant. Northern Ireland must stay in the single market and customs union.Richard_Nabavi said:
Of course it need a political solution: the EU27 need to stop this absurd and irrational pretence that anything substantial can be agreed on exit arrangements and the border, without agreeing first on what we are exiting to.williamglenn said:
Does Canada not have a comprehensive trade deal with the US of the kind you are suggesting the EU needs to give us? Yet they still have a hard border.Richard_Nabavi said:If the Irish PM doesn't want a hard border, then he needs to address himself to persuading his EU colleagues of the obvious truth: that they need to get on with agreeing a comprehensive trade deal with the UK that will make such a border unnecessary. This really isn't hard to understand, especially since it will be the EU which will be insisting on the border checks.
Clearly this is needs a political solution and it is unrelated to trade discussions. It really isn't hard to understand...0 -
Pragmatic where she should be principled.Richard_Nabavi said:I'm confused - is Mrs May now being criticised for being too pragmatic, or not pragmatic enough?
Inflexible where she should be pragmatic.
Basically rubbish. But you know that.0 -
I thought I would be in your Leaver box? Although I think it would do you good to stop placing people in little categoriesAlastairMeeks said:
Not a single Leaver on thread has yet come forward to say that they think that people like Dr Holmberg should be permitted (never mind encouraged) to stay in the UK. So in a couple of years time we can look forward to them all enthusiastically cheering the deportation of future Dr Holmbergs.FF43 said:
Actually it isn't. The Home Office screw up can be disregarded because she has rights accorded to her by EU treaty as well as recourse to the courts. After Brexit she won't under UK proposals. This one of the key Article 50 negotiating points.Richard_Nabavi said:
And, tucked in at the end of the article, is the revelation that it's a non-story:CarlottaVance said:I see George is onto the Finnish historian case:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/leading-finnish-historian-threatened-with-detention-and-deportation-in-absurd-brexit-ruling-by-home-a3618176.html
A Home Office spokesman said Dr Holmberg’s letter should not have been sent, adding hers was not the only case.
He said: “A limited number of letters were issued in error and we have been urgently looking into why this happened.
"We are contacting everyone who received this letter to clarify that they can disregard it."
Sorry, Alastair - this is an old-fashioned Home Office screw-up, not an example of Brexit over-enthusiasm.0 -
US law / UK courts is quite commonCornishJohn said:
Yes, that's exactly what I said. Where an agreement has been made in EU law, obviously EU law and EU courts should govern it. Just as agreements and contracts made under American law or Japanese law would be ultimately arbitrated by American and Japanese courts.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/msmithsonpb/status/900317593600499713CornishJohn said:..."where the dispute concerns EU law", and it could be referred to UK courts where the dispute will concern UK law. Europhiles are deliberately obscuring the truth to play politics. They are pretending moving to the normal functioning of international law between sovereign countries is European courts have special power over the UK. It's not true.
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I don't see a problem here, John Donne would have understood.David_Evershed said:
Why would Finland have this special interest though?FF43 said:
Why not? Attitudes to travel in 17C England is valid historical research, and probably quite interesting.David_Evershed said:geoffw said:
She's a post-doc research fellow of the Academy of Finland.nigel4england said:
Genuine question, who funds her studies here? I presume she does so herself?
Surely the underlying issue is why Helsinki Uni would pay for this research?0 -
You need to understand arch-Europhiles can only comprehend two types of Leaver:Richard_Nabavi said:I'm confused - is Mrs May now being criticised for being too pragmatic, or not pragmatic enough?
A. "Soft leavers", who accept being in the EU in everything but name, including having full jurisdiction of European courts
B. "Hard leavers", who can not tolerate any relationship with foreigners whatsoever, even the normal functioning of international relationships between sovereign states
When the government rejects A they are zealous, racist head bangers. When the government rejects B they are in danger of losing most of their base.
The reality that the government, most Conservative MPs and most Leave voters sit in the vast middle ground that combines national sovereignty with close and healthy co-operation is something their ideology can not comprehend.0 -
True and a very stupid move by the NHS in keeping the bursary system for so long whilst they were failing to train enough nurses. Of course it was built on the even stupider decision to force degree courses on nurses.HYUFD said:
In 2014 for instance there were 100 000 applicants for nurses courses for just 20 000 places, the problem has not been lack of applicants but lack of training places which the government is now addressingfoxinsoxuk said:
Plenty of those unfilled in clearing too, as well as 30 000 nursing vacancies nationwide.HYUFD said:
In the case of nurses though more training places are being provided to address the historic oversupply of applicants to placesfoxinsoxuk said:
On that subject:FF43 said:
That too. The immigrants that are most put off are those that are most marketable and have choices about where they go.FeersumEnjineeya said:
We can also get immigration numbers down by trashing the pound, currently at an 8-year low against the euro aside from the flash crash last October. People aren't going to come if they can only earn peanuts.FF43 said:
You are deflecting. We are brexiting. We can choose to do that in an openminded, competent way ks.isam said:
What we need is a strong advocate of Britain remaining in the EU at the Home OfficeFF43 said:
In that case the UKBA is almost certainly acting unlawfully, even if t issues.geoffw said:re Holmberg deportation case:
https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/wednesdays_papers_turku_stabbing_investigation_brexit_problems_and_johaugs_tears/9792490
Btw if you try Google translate the Helsingin Sanomat article referred to earlier you'll be totally befuddled because Google translate cannot cope with the lack of a distinction between "he" and "she" in Finnish.
http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/your-practice/practice-topics/employment/600-overseas-gps-to-be-recruited-for-english-practices-by-april/20035133.article
And a campaign to recruit GPs from Australia? ROFL! there are 350 fewer GPs than 2015, despite Hunt's promised 5000 recruits.
Lots of undergraduate medical school places in clearing too. Nearly all medical schools unable to fill their courses.
Its almost as if our country is governed by incompetents...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2878312/80-000-UK-students-told-t-train-nurse-Thousands-t-courses-despite-four-five-new-NHS-workers-foreign.html
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The vast middle ground that combines national sovereignty with close and healthy co-operation is being a member of the EU.CornishJohn said:The reality that the government, most Conservative MPs and most Leave voters sit in the vast middle ground that combines national sovereignty with close and healthy co-operation is something their ideology can not comprehend.
And the Brexiteers couldn't get their head round that0 -
Google is your friendwilliamglenn said:
So out of the UK's approximately £550 billion of exports, roughly what 'huge proportion' is financed by the UK government?Charles said:
A huge proportion of international trade from all countries is financed like thiswilliamglenn said:
You don't think it's revealing that it's the finance deal from the government they're bigging up rather than the alleged contract?nigel4england said:
Sad to say that this really sums you upwilliamglenn said:It's time for anyone who mocked the promise of 'global Britain' to eat humble pie.
https://twitter.com/tkbeynon/status/900300471746912257
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-41011700
"Our ability to offer finance from UK Export Finance in Mexican pesos was a significant benefit to our buyer, helping us win this major contract."
Sounds like vendor financing underwritten by the UK government. Is the government going to get its money back?0 -
She will cling to grim death to the word "indirect". To be fair this does need to be fudged. For practical reasons that we benefit from, it has to be EU law applied according to ECJ judgments. But extraterritorial jurisdictions are a big problem that you can't airily wave away.TheScreamingEagles said:
Don't worry, Mrs May will disown that soon too.Scott_P said:0 -
For being democratic.Richard_Nabavi said:I'm confused - is Mrs May now being criticised for being too pragmatic, or not pragmatic enough?
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Thank you for a clear demonstration of the arch-Europhile position. You start from the basis that May is always wrong, and then back out your logic from there. It's Chapman Syndrome all over.Jonathan said:
Pragmatic where she should be principled.Richard_Nabavi said:I'm confused - is Mrs May now being criticised for being too pragmatic, or not pragmatic enough?
Inflexible where she should be pragmatic.
Basically rubbish. But you know that.0 -
Possibly someone hopes that in issue number 987, they have finally found a fundamental issue that will stop Brexit happening. Or will it be 988 or 989 or 990..........Richard_Nabavi said:I'm confused - is Mrs May now being criticised for being too pragmatic, or not pragmatic enough?
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I agree, and I continue to invest my pension portfolio accordingly.Nigelb said:And if they don't ?
The possibility of a hard Brexit happening because the two sides can't agree on the negotiation process - despite there being common ground on the shape of a prospective deal - is quite significant.0 -
A national sovereignty where your law, your immigration system and your taxes are subject to foreign decision. Of course.Scott_P said:
The vast middle ground that combines national sovereignty with close and healthy co-operation is being a member of the EU.CornishJohn said:The reality that the government, most Conservative MPs and most Leave voters sit in the vast middle ground that combines national sovereignty with close and healthy co-operation is something their ideology can not comprehend.
And the Brexiteers couldn't get their head round that0 -
The home office could (and probably should) be mostly junked.rkrkrk said:
Yes - Home Office screw-up I think.Richard_Nabavi said:
And, tucked in at the end of the article, is the revelation that it's a non-story:CarlottaVance said:I see George is onto the Finnish historian case:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/leading-finnish-historian-threatened-with-detention-and-deportation-in-absurd-brexit-ruling-by-home-a3618176.html
A Home Office spokesman said Dr Holmberg’s letter should not have been sent, adding hers was not the only case.
He said: “A limited number of letters were issued in error and we have been urgently looking into why this happened.
"We are contacting everyone who received this letter to clarify that they can disregard it."
Sorry, Alastair - this is an old-fashioned Home Office screw-up, not an example of Brexit over-enthusiasm.
We've had a few of these screw-ups before though - surely it can't be that hard to alter the system so that they do more thorough checks before sending out deportation notices?
Apart from anything else - it generates terrible press. Amber Rudd needs to get a grip.
Doesn't fill me with confidence for the considerable additional workload the Home Office will receive post-Brexit.
Use Brexit as an excuse to recruit a thousand or so unsoiled graduates into a new "department for citizens" (or something) - then, once the brexit workload dies down, gradually fold in the most dysfunctional bits of the home office.0 -
"We were always Sovereign"CornishJohn said:A national sovereignty where your law, your immigration system and your taxes are subject to foreign decision. Of course.
HMG statement on Brexit0 -
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Because it is self-evidently an error, no one has an issue with her staying and we all have better things to do than revalidate our humanity in your eyes?AlastairMeeks said:
Not a single Leaver on thread has yet come forward to say that they think that people like Dr Holmberg should be permitted (never mind encouraged) to stay in the UK. So in a couple of years time we can look forward to them all enthusiastically cheering the deportation of future Dr Holmbergs.FF43 said:
Actually it isn't. The Home Office screw up can be disregarded because she has rights accorded to her by EU treaty as well as recourse to the courts. After Brexit she won't under UK proposals. This one of the key Article 50 negotiating points.Richard_Nabavi said:
And, tucked in at the end of the article, is the revelation that it's a non-story:CarlottaVance said:I see George is onto the Finnish historian case:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/leading-finnish-historian-threatened-with-detention-and-deportation-in-absurd-brexit-ruling-by-home-a3618176.html
A Home Office spokesman said Dr Holmberg’s letter should not have been sent, adding hers was not the only case.
He said: “A limited number of letters were issued in error and we have been urgently looking into why this happened.
"We are contacting everyone who received this letter to clarify that they can disregard it."
Sorry, Alastair - this is an old-fashioned Home Office screw-up, not an example of Brexit over-enthusiasm.0 -
"In the last 5 years UK Export Finance has provided £14bn in support of UK exports". Not a 'huge proportion' in anyone's book, except perhaps yours.Charles said:
Google is your friendwilliamglenn said:
So out of the UK's approximately £550 billion of exports, roughly what 'huge proportion' is financed by the UK government?Charles said:
A huge proportion of international trade from all countries is financed like thiswilliamglenn said:
You don't think it's revealing that it's the finance deal from the government they're bigging up rather than the alleged contract?nigel4england said:
Sad to say that this really sums you upwilliamglenn said:It's time for anyone who mocked the promise of 'global Britain' to eat humble pie.
https://twitter.com/tkbeynon/status/900300471746912257
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-41011700
"Our ability to offer finance from UK Export Finance in Mexican pesos was a significant benefit to our buyer, helping us win this major contract."
Sounds like vendor financing underwritten by the UK government. Is the government going to get its money back?0 -
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Please explain how block voting by Eurozone countries plus no UK veto is in our interest?Scott_P said:
The vast middle ground that combines national sovereignty with close and healthy co-operation is being a member of the EU.CornishJohn said:The reality that the government, most Conservative MPs and most Leave voters sit in the vast middle ground that combines national sovereignty with close and healthy co-operation is something their ideology can not comprehend.
And the Brexiteers couldn't get their head round that0 -
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/627794/UK_Export_Finance_Business_Plan_2017-2020.PDFCharles said:
Google is your friendwilliamglenn said:
So out of the UK's approximately £550 billion of exports, roughly what 'huge proportion' is financed by the UK government?Charles said:
A huge proportion of international trade from all countries is financed like thiswilliamglenn said:
You don't think it's revealing that it's the finance deal from the government they're bigging up rather than the alleged contract?nigel4england said:
Sad to say that this really sums you upwilliamglenn said:It's time for anyone who mocked the promise of 'global Britain' to eat humble pie.
https://twitter.com/tkbeynon/status/900300471746912257
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-41011700
"Our ability to offer finance from UK Export Finance in Mexican pesos was a significant benefit to our buyer, helping us win this major contract."
Sounds like vendor financing underwritten by the UK government. Is the government going to get its money back?
Says that in the last 5 years, UK Export Finance has provided 14 billion in support for UK exports. It also says that they seek to compliment not compete with the private sector and only work when without them exports wouldn't happen.
Sounds to me like they are a tiny minority of international trade?0 -
In fact, Jonathan is quite right, Mrs May is completely out of her depth, so usually gets things wrong. It is a good working hypothesis to start from.CornishJohn said:
Thank you for a clear demonstration of the arch-Europhile position. You start from the basis that May is always wrong, and then back out your logic from there. It's Chapman Syndrome all over.Jonathan said:
Pragmatic where she should be principled.Richard_Nabavi said:I'm confused - is Mrs May now being criticised for being too pragmatic, or not pragmatic enough?
Inflexible where she should be pragmatic.
Basically rubbish. But you know that.
If only she had somebody sensible to give her good advice.0 -
Typing on an iPhone so tedious to amend. But "a huge amount" or "a significant proportion of exports to countries with volatile currencies" would have been more accuratewilliamglenn said:
"In the last 5 years UK Export Finance has provided £14bn in support of UK exports". Not a 'huge proportion' in anyone's book, except perhaps yours.Charles said:
Google is your friendwilliamglenn said:
So out of the UK's approximately £550 billion of exports, roughly what 'huge proportion' is financed by the UK government?Charles said:
A huge proportion of international trade from all countries is financed like thiswilliamglenn said:
You don't think it's revealing that it's the finance deal from the government they're bigging up rather than the alleged contract?nigel4england said:
Sad to say that this really sums you upwilliamglenn said:It's time for anyone who mocked the promise of 'global Britain' to eat humble pie.
https://twitter.com/tkbeynon/status/900300471746912257
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-41011700
"Our ability to offer finance from UK Export Finance in Mexican pesos was a significant benefit to our buyer, helping us win this major contract."
Sounds like vendor financing underwritten by the UK government. Is the government going to get its money back?0 -
And leaving the EU would somehow give us a veto over this bloc?Charles said:
Please explain how block voting by Eurozone countries plus no UK veto is in our interest?Scott_P said:
The vast middle ground that combines national sovereignty with close and healthy co-operation is being a member of the EU.CornishJohn said:The reality that the government, most Conservative MPs and most Leave voters sit in the vast middle ground that combines national sovereignty with close and healthy co-operation is something their ideology can not comprehend.
And the Brexiteers couldn't get their head round that0 -
Is there a way to block certain board members on here?0
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Only if you interpret 'sovereignty' to be a purely theoretical thing, and blind to practical powers.Scott_P said:
"We were always Sovereign"CornishJohn said:A national sovereignty where your law, your immigration system and your taxes are subject to foreign decision. Of course.
HMG statement on Brexit0 -
If there are comments you don't want to see, you can use this;CornishJohn said:Is there a way to block certain board members on here?
http://www.viking-direct.co.uk/a/pb/Office-Depot-Midway-Correction-Roller-42mm-x-85m/id=6093090&pr=Q28/0 -
It wouldn't give us a veto. It would just mean we escape their jurisdiction and control.williamglenn said:
And leaving the EU would somehow give us a veto over this bloc?Charles said:
Please explain how block voting by Eurozone countries plus no UK veto is in our interest?Scott_P said:
The vast middle ground that combines national sovereignty with close and healthy co-operation is being a member of the EU.CornishJohn said:The reality that the government, most Conservative MPs and most Leave voters sit in the vast middle ground that combines national sovereignty with close and healthy co-operation is something their ideology can not comprehend.
And the Brexiteers couldn't get their head round that0 -
That was the Government interpretation. Are you really claiming the Government has no practical powers?CornishJohn said:Only if you interpret 'sovereignty' to be a purely theoretical thing, and blind to practical powers.
0 -
Jurisdiction is a lot like pregnancy, it's a binary state, the court has it or it doesn't have it.FF43 said:
She will cling to grim death to the word "indirect". To be fair this does need to be fudged. For practical reasons that we benefit from, it has to be EU law applied according to ECJ judgments. But extraterritorial jurisdictions are a big problem that you can't airily wave away.TheScreamingEagles said:
Don't worry, Mrs May will disown that soon too.Scott_P said:
(In)direct jurisdiction is like being a little bit pregnant.0 -
Almost this entire thread has been about how we will still be under EU court jurisdiction.CornishJohn said:It wouldn't give us a veto. It would just mean we escape their jurisdiction and control.
You seem to have solved your blocking problem. Just don't read any posts.0 -
Another Leaver snowflake.CornishJohn said:Is there a way to block certain board members on here?
Sack up.0 -
If you need the obvious stating then I think Dr Holmberg should be permitted to stay.AlastairMeeks said:
Not a single Leaver on thread has yet come forward to say that they think that people like Dr Holmberg should be permitted (never mind encouraged) to stay in the UK. So in a couple of years time we can look forward to them all enthusiastically cheering the deportation of future Dr Holmbergs.FF43 said:
Actually it isn't. The Home Office screw up can be disregarded because she has rights accorded to her by EU treaty as well as recourse to the courts. After Brexit she won't under UK proposals. This one of the key Article 50 negotiating points.Richard_Nabavi said:
And, tucked in at the end of the article, is the revelation that it's a non-story:CarlottaVance said:I see George is onto the Finnish historian case:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/leading-finnish-historian-threatened-with-detention-and-deportation-in-absurd-brexit-ruling-by-home-a3618176.html
A Home Office spokesman said Dr Holmberg’s letter should not have been sent, adding hers was not the only case.
He said: “A limited number of letters were issued in error and we have been urgently looking into why this happened.
"We are contacting everyone who received this letter to clarify that they can disregard it."
Sorry, Alastair - this is an old-fashioned Home Office screw-up, not an example of Brexit over-enthusiasm.
I also think water should be permitted to be wet. I also think cancer is bad, the sun rises in the East and night will follow day. Anything else you feel an urgent need to have affirmed?0 -
apparently......have you, you know, read it?Scott_P said:
She is apparently disowning her own Government paper on Brexit.?Richard_Nabavi said:I'm confused - is Mrs May now being criticised for being too pragmatic, or not pragmatic enough?
0 -
No. I claimed that the government had loss a great many practical elements of sovereignty.Scott_P said:
That was the Government interpretation. Are you really claiming the Government has no practical powers?CornishJohn said:Only if you interpret 'sovereignty' to be a purely theoretical thing, and blind to practical powers.
Anyway, I'm breaking my own rule about debating with Europhile zealots, so let's move on.0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
Another Leaver snowflake.CornishJohn said:Is there a way to block certain board members on here?
Sack up.
0 -
That post says a lot about you.TheScreamingEagles said:
Another Leaver snowflake.CornishJohn said:Is there a way to block certain board members on here?
Sack up.0 -
Well, having actually read the government's paper, it seems to be very sensible.0
-
The Home Office employs something like 30,000 people.Pong said:
The home office could (and probably should) be mostly junked.
Use Brexit as an excuse to recruit a thousand or so unsoiled graduates into a new "department for citizens" (or something) - then, once the brexit workload dies down, gradually fold in the most dysfunctional bits of the home office.
Hiring a thousand new graduates with no experience to replace them would be a total calamity.
In the short term - Brexit is going to mean we need a lot more civil servants.0 -
Indeed, using the savings from the bursary system to fund extra training places should prove beneficial in the long runAllan said:
True and a very stupid move by the NHS in keeping the bursary system for so long whilst they were failing to train enough nurses. Of course it was built on the even stupider decision to force degree courses on nurses.HYUFD said:
In 2014 for instance there were 100 000 applicants for nurses courses for just 20 000 places, the problem has not been lack of applicants but lack of training places which the government is now addressingfoxinsoxuk said:
Plenty of those unfilled in clearing too, as well as 30 000 nursing vacancies nationwide.HYUFD said:
In the case of nurses though more training places are being provided to address the historic oversupply of applicants to placesfoxinsoxuk said:
On that subject:FF43 said:
That too. The immigrants that are most put off are those that are most marketable and have choices about where they go.FeersumEnjineeya said:
We can also get immigration numbers down by trashing the pound, currently at an 8-year low against the euro aside from the flash crash last October. People aren't going to come if they can only earn peanuts.FF43 said:
You are deflecting. We are brexiting. We can choose to do that in an openminded, competent way ks.isam said:
What we need is a strong advocate of Britain remaining in the EU at the Home OfficeFF43 said:
In that case the UKBA is almost certainly acting unlawfully, even if t issues.geoffw said:re Holmberg deportation case:
https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/wednesdays_papers_turku_stabbing_investigation_brexit_problems_and_johaugs_tears/9792490
Btw if you try Google translate the Helsingin Sanomat article referred to earlier you'll be totally befuddled because Google translate cannot cope with the lack of a distinction between "he" and "she" in Finnish.
http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/your-practice/practice-topics/employment/600-overseas-gps-to-be-recruited-for-english-practices-by-april/20035133.article
And a campaign to recruit GPs from Australia? ROFL! there are 350 fewer GPs than 2015, despite Hunt's promised 5000 recruits.
Lots of undergraduate medical school places in clearing too. Nearly all medical schools unable to fill their courses.
Its almost as if our country is governed by incompetents...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2878312/80-000-UK-students-told-t-train-nurse-Thousands-t-courses-despite-four-five-new-NHS-workers-foreign.html0 -
Indeed. She is continuing her pre-, mid-, and post-election policy of spouting meaningless slogans to gain tabloid headlines. "No jurisdiction of the ECJ!" is yet another.PClipp said:
In fact, Jonathan is quite right, Mrs May is completely out of her depth, so usually gets things wrong. It is a good working hypothesis to start from.CornishJohn said:
Thank you for a clear demonstration of the arch-Europhile position. You start from the basis that May is always wrong, and then back out your logic from there. It's Chapman Syndrome all over.Jonathan said:
Pragmatic where she should be principled.Richard_Nabavi said:I'm confused - is Mrs May now being criticised for being too pragmatic, or not pragmatic enough?
Inflexible where she should be pragmatic.
Basically rubbish. But you know that.
If only she had somebody sensible to give her good advice.0 -
Shhh, don't ruin their day.Richard_Nabavi said:Well, having actually read the government's paper, it seems to be very sensible.
0 -
Interesting - I don't personally think that's the case, more likely to be genuine incompetence, but it's actually an opinion I've heard from a lot of people in France. Definitely seems to be the prevailing view, that the UK is basically doing all it can to delay negotiations, backtrack on everything, and has no desire to actually brexit.williamglenn said:0 -
https://twitter.com/joewatts_/status/900327276729991168Richard_Nabavi said:Well, having actually read the government's paper, it seems to be very sensible.
The only thing more sensible would be if could actually shape those decisions.
Oh...0 -
It won't, but instead of being outvoted and required to comply with their decisions we can choose if, when and how to engage with themwilliamglenn said:
And leaving the EU would somehow give us a veto over this bloc?Charles said:
Please explain how block voting by Eurozone countries plus no UK veto is in our interest?Scott_P said:
The vast middle ground that combines national sovereignty with close and healthy co-operation is being a member of the EU.CornishJohn said:The reality that the government, most Conservative MPs and most Leave voters sit in the vast middle ground that combines national sovereignty with close and healthy co-operation is something their ideology can not comprehend.
And the Brexiteers couldn't get their head round that0 -
I'm reading it with a member of a magic circle firm.Richard_Nabavi said:Well, having actually read the government's paper, it seems to be very sensible.
There's a lot of guffawing coming from him.
Someone who only did A Level law was his view of the author.0 -
Which only applies to those issues which we agreed it should apply to, and which we did in our own interests to facilitate the operation of a larger EU which we pushed for.Charles said:
Losing sleep over being outvoted is usually an accusation levelled at those of us on the Remain side.0 -
I agree. Figleaves are binary too. You either have them or you don't. As a Remainer who basically thinks this is nonsense I am saying there are some naughty bits that need covering up because we do want to keep the bodies.TheScreamingEagles said:
Jurisdiction is a lot like pregnancy, it's a binary state, the court has it or it doesn't have it.FF43 said:
She will cling to grim death to the word "indirect". To be fair this does need to be fudged. For practical reasons that we benefit from, it has to be EU law applied according to ECJ judgments. But extraterritorial jurisdictions are a big problem that you can't airily wave away.TheScreamingEagles said:
Don't worry, Mrs May will disown that soon too.Scott_P said:
(In)direct jurisdiction is like being a little bit pregnant.0 -
The way the last line shapes is beautifully ironic. Has the left wing press converted to Leave?Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/joewatts_/status/900327276729991168...Richard_Nabavi said:Well, having actually read the government's paper, it seems to be very sensible.
0 -
I have never known a lawyer who didn't say things like that about other lawyers.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm reading it with a member of a magic circle firm.Richard_Nabavi said:Well, having actually read the government's paper, it seems to be very sensible.
There's a lot of guffawing coming from him.
Someone who only did A Level law was his view of the author.0 -
Shhh! The only reliable source for information on it is Twitter - reading it?!?Richard_Nabavi said:Well, having actually read the government's paper, it seems to be very sensible.
You'll be thinking for yourself next!0 -
But the paper is clear that on cases relating to the rights of EU citizens in Britain after Brexit, the UK courts should be the final arbiter, contradicting Brussels’ current position.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/joewatts_/status/900327276729991168Richard_Nabavi said:Well, having actually read the government's paper, it seems to be very sensible.
The only thing more sensible would be if could actually shape those decisions.
Oh...
You still haven't read it then?0 -
Wasn't the Confederacy more to do with taxes?Cyclefree said:
But his life is seen as one to emulate. If it's wrong to revere General Lee because of his role in the Confederacy whose reason for existing was slavery, why shouldn't the same be said of Mohammed who also had an equally repellent approach to slavery?Theuniondivvie said:
Though not an awful lot of statues of Mohammed to pull down.Cyclefree said:
Indeed. If supporting and practising slavery is to put historical figures beyond the pale, then what about this Mohammed fellow, eh? How appalling for people to look to him as some sort of exemplar. And what about Napoleon? He reintroduced slavery after the French revolution abolished it. And those ancient Greeks: very naughty indeed.Sandpit said:Good tongue-in-cheek from Iain Martin: If we’re going to start tearing down statues, then start with Karl Marx.
https://reaction.life/karl-marx-must-fall-ahead-admiral-nelson-surely/0 -
26 counties of Ireland left the UK in the early 1920's. At the time they had full voting rights and participation in UK decisions on the same basis as Wales or Scotland or Sussex. However, they felt they were getting a rough deal, and preferred, for all the doubts there must have been (like leaving a big customs union), to plough their own furrow.williamglenn said:
And leaving the EU would somehow give us a veto over this bloc?Charles said:
Please explain how block voting by Eurozone countries plus no UK veto is in our interest?Scott_P said:
The vast middle ground that combines national sovereignty with close and healthy co-operation is being a member of the EU.CornishJohn said:The reality that the government, most Conservative MPs and most Leave voters sit in the vast middle ground that combines national sovereignty with close and healthy co-operation is something their ideology can not comprehend.
And the Brexiteers couldn't get their head round that
There was a vote in 1918 (the election) and a majority in the 26 counties (46.9% in Ireland as a whole out of interest, the remaining votes being 25% unionist and 22% Irish Parliamentary Party) voted to exit the UK. In due course, and sadly following much violence in this case, they signed a compromise treaty that gave them effective Dominion Status, and with it defacto, if not 100% de jure, independence. Less than thirty years later they declared a Republic.
Were they wrong to go down this route, or should they have maintained the roughly 11% of seats they had in the decision making process of the UK at the time? I would suggest they had no real veto, they knew it, and decided going their own way was best for them. I imagine the vast majority of their great grand children agree with them.0 -
Yes everything is fine and dandy in the world of student finance and NHS recruitment and retention.HYUFD said:
In 2014 for instance there were 100 000 applicants for nurses courses for just 20 000 places, the problem has not been lack of applicants but lack of training places which the government is now addressingfoxinsoxuk said:
Plenty of those unfilled in clearing too, as well as 30 000 nursing vacancies nationwide.HYUFD said:
In the case of nurses though more training places are being provided to address the historic oversupply of applicants to placesfoxinsoxuk said:
On that subject:FF43 said:
That too. The immigrants that are most put off are those that are most marketable and have choices about where they go.FeersumEnjineeya said:
We can also get immigration numbers down by trashing the pound, currently at an 8-year low against the euro aside from the flash crash last October. People aren't going to come if they can only earn peanuts.FF43 said:
You are deflecting. We are brexiting. We can choose to do that in an openminded, competent way ks.isam said:
What we need is a strong advocate of Britain remaining in the EU at the Home OfficeFF43 said:
In that case the UKBA is almost certainly acting unlawfully, even if t issues.geoffw said:re Holmberg deportation case:
https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/wednesdays_papers_turku_stabbing_investigation_brexit_problems_and_johaugs_tears/9792490
Btw if you try Google translate the Helsingin Sanomat article referred to earlier you'll be totally befuddled because Google translate cannot cope with the lack of a distinction between "he" and "she" in Finnish.
http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/your-practice/practice-topics/employment/600-overseas-gps-to-be-recruited-for-english-practices-by-april/20035133.article
And a campaign to recruit GPs from Australia? ROFL!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2878312/80-000-UK-students-told-t-train-nurse-Thousands-t-courses-despite-four-five-new-NHS-workers-foreign.html
According to UCAS figures there were 33810 English applicants for Nursing places in England in 2017, down 23% from last year. Only about 16 000 were applicants post A Level.
https://www.ucas.com/corporate/data-and-analysis/ucas-undergraduate-releases/2017-cycle-applicant-figures-–-january-deadline
Figures for other professions allied to medicine are similarly down (physios etc).0 -
Yes, politicians gave those powers away without consulting their masters.williamglenn said:
Which only applies to those issues which we agreed it should apply to, and which we did in our own interests to facilitate the operation of a larger EU which we pushed for.Charles said:
Losing sleep over being outvoted is usually an accusation levelled at those of us on the Remain side.
But, to be fair, bloc voting with an inbuilt majority is a relatively new development0 -
I feel sorry for the person who wrote it if they had such a miserable adolescence they could only do one a-level, and that the second most pointless and boring one behind General Studies.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm reading it with a member of a magic circle firm.Richard_Nabavi said:Well, having actually read the government's paper, it seems to be very sensible.
There's a lot of guffawing coming from him.
Someone who only did A Level law was his view of the author.
Why couldn't they do sensible and interesting subjects like history, philosophy, politics, English and watching paint dry?0 -
My favourite experience with top lawyers: I was involved in a transaction where the other side were represented by one of the magic circle firms. After a long and painful negotiation and legal argy-bargy, we finally closed the deal in the standard manner at about two in the morning, having quibbled over every sentence of the agreement.
As we were walking out to get a taxi, my lawyer said to me: "Well that's good. They didn't notice that you have a subsidiary company. Every single clause they forced you to accept can be side-stepped by doing it through the subsidiary".0 -
Indeed. By a vast majority they agree that being a member of the EU and Eurozone is a superior way for a European nation to defend its interests in the modern world than being tied to the last vestige of the British Empire that is the United Kingdom. Let's hope we have the wisdom to learn from their example.welshowl said:Were they wrong to go down this route, or should they have maintained the roughly 11% of seats they had in the decision making process of the UK at the time? I would suggest they had no real veto, they knew it, and decided going their own way was best for them. I imagine the vast majority of their great grand children agree with them.
0 -
-
During the Troubles you could walk over almost the entirety of the Irish border. Open border, however, it was not.TonyE said:
Border police can and do operate up to 100 miles away from the US Canada Border, and can stop anyone in that zone under border control regulations and laws, require them to prove their immigration status etc.CornishJohn said:
I've just provided photographic evidence where people can walk across the Canada-US border without a border guard in sight. So much for being "hard".williamglenn said:
Does Canada not have a comprehensive trade deal with the US of the kind you are suggesting the EU needs to give us? Yet they still have a hard border.Richard_Nabavi said:If the Irish PM doesn't want a hard border, then he needs to address himself to persuading his EU colleagues of the obvious truth: that they need to get on with agreeing a comprehensive trade deal with the UK that will make such a border unnecessary. This really isn't hard to understand, especially since it will be the EU which will be insisting on the border checks.
Clearly this is needs a political solution and it is unrelated to trade discussions. It really isn't hard to understand...0 -
That is really quite spectacularly incompetent. Are they now working for the government on UKBA decisions?Richard_Nabavi said:My favourite experience with top lawyers: I was involved in a transaction where the other side were represented by one of the magic circle firms. After a long and painful negotiation and legal argy-bargy, we finally closed the deal in the standard manner at about two in the morning, having quibbled over every sentence of the agreement.
As we were walking out to get a taxi, my lawyer said to me: "Well that's good. They didn't notice that you have a subsidiary company. Every single clause they forced you to accept can be side-stepped by doing it through the subsidiary".0 -
That's not my point as you well know.williamglenn said:
Indeed. By a vast majority they agree that being a member of the EU and Eurozone is a superior way for a European nation to defend its interests in the modern world than being tied to the last vestige of the British Empire that is the United Kingdom. Let's hope we have the wisdom to learn from their example.welshowl said:Were they wrong to go down this route, or should they have maintained the roughly 11% of seats they had in the decision making process of the UK at the time? I would suggest they had no real veto, they knew it, and decided going their own way was best for them. I imagine the vast majority of their great grand children agree with them.
0 -
No.Luckyguy1983 said:
Wasn't the Confederacy more to do with taxes?Cyclefree said:
But his life is seen as one to emulate. If it's wrong to revere General Lee because of his role in the Confederacy whose reason for existing was slavery, why shouldn't the same be said of Mohammed who also had an equally repellent approach to slavery?Theuniondivvie said:
Though not an awful lot of statues of Mohammed to pull down.Cyclefree said:
Indeed. If supporting and practising slavery is to put historical figures beyond the pale, then what about this Mohammed fellow, eh? How appalling for people to look to him as some sort of exemplar. And what about Napoleon? He reintroduced slavery after the French revolution abolished it. And those ancient Greeks: very naughty indeed.Sandpit said:Good tongue-in-cheek from Iain Martin: If we’re going to start tearing down statues, then start with Karl Marx.
https://reaction.life/karl-marx-must-fall-ahead-admiral-nelson-surely/0 -
Probably!ydoethur said:
That is really quite spectacularly incompetent. Are they now working for the government on UKBA decisions?Richard_Nabavi said:My favourite experience with top lawyers: I was involved in a transaction where the other side were represented by one of the magic circle firms. After a long and painful negotiation and legal argy-bargy, we finally closed the deal in the standard manner at about two in the morning, having quibbled over every sentence of the agreement.
As we were walking out to get a taxi, my lawyer said to me: "Well that's good. They didn't notice that you have a subsidiary company. Every single clause they forced you to accept can be side-stepped by doing it through the subsidiary".0 -
The American Civil War was to do with the free movement of people.ydoethur said:
No.Luckyguy1983 said:
Wasn't the Confederacy more to do with taxes?Cyclefree said:
But his life is seen as one to emulate. If it's wrong to revere General Lee because of his role in the Confederacy whose reason for existing was slavery, why shouldn't the same be said of Mohammed who also had an equally repellent approach to slavery?Theuniondivvie said:
Though not an awful lot of statues of Mohammed to pull down.Cyclefree said:
Indeed. If supporting and practising slavery is to put historical figures beyond the pale, then what about this Mohammed fellow, eh? How appalling for people to look to him as some sort of exemplar. And what about Napoleon? He reintroduced slavery after the French revolution abolished it. And those ancient Greeks: very naughty indeed.Sandpit said:Good tongue-in-cheek from Iain Martin: If we’re going to start tearing down statues, then start with Karl Marx.
https://reaction.life/karl-marx-must-fall-ahead-admiral-nelson-surely/0 -
Yes. Buy these.CornishJohn said:Is there a way to block certain board members on here?
http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Joo_Janta_200_Super-Chromatic_Peril_Sensitive_Sunglasses0 -
Why has Macron become so unpopular so quickly in France ?Paristonda said:
Interesting - I don't personally think that's the case, more likely to be genuine incompetence, but it's actually an opinion I've heard from a lot of people in France. Definitely seems to be the prevailing view, that the UK is basically doing all it can to delay negotiations, backtrack on everything, and has no desire to actually brexit.williamglenn said:0 -
Indeed: Seems to be half the point of becoming a lawyer, as far as I can tell.Richard_Nabavi said:
I have never known a lawyer who didn't say things like that about other lawyers.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm reading it with a member of a magic circle firm.Richard_Nabavi said:Well, having actually read the government's paper, it seems to be very sensible.
There's a lot of guffawing coming from him.
Someone who only did A Level law was his view of the author.0 -
Pre bloc voting. I won't criticise people for not anticipating how that has developed. But when the situation changes you need to assess whether the current arrangements still work.foxinsoxuk said:
In this case they didn't - if there had been a reform to introduce double majorities (Eurozone and non-Eurozone) it could have been solved. In fact most of the issues with the EU could have been relatively easily fixed but because of Cameron's incompetence and the EU's inflexibility we have ended up leaving.
0 -
Why is it everytime the government releases a paper on our exit from the EU Remainers pretend that there's some major climbdown or disaster going on?0
-
That's not true at all. Indirect will have relevance in a tiny fraction of cases that direct does. Right now the ECJ is the ultimate arbiter on the vast bulk of UK law. An indirect influence situation after Brexit will be the tiny minority of cases where the contract/agreement was written under EU law. Indirect is far closer to no jurisdiction than it is to direct jurisdiction.TheScreamingEagles said:
Jurisdiction is a lot like pregnancy, it's a binary state, the court has it or it doesn't have it.FF43 said:
She will cling to grim death to the word "indirect". To be fair this does need to be fudged. For practical reasons that we benefit from, it has to be EU law applied according to ECJ judgments. But extraterritorial jurisdictions are a big problem that you can't airily wave away.TheScreamingEagles said:
Don't worry, Mrs May will disown that soon too.Scott_P said:
(In)direct jurisdiction is like being a little bit pregnant.0 -
@CornishJohn - You may be interested in a group affiliated to the Gates Foundation's comments on African tariffs here. They were indeed concerned about tariff barriers - those placed on imports of anti-malarial drugs which they were pressuring African governments to remove.
http://alma2030.org/sites/default/files/head_of_state_meeting/mtap_-_tariff_and_ntb_fact_sheet.pdf0 -
You'll have to ask Dominic Raab, he started it.GIN1138 said:Why is it everytime the government releases a paper on our exit from the EU Remainers pretend that there's some major climbdown or disaster going on?
0 -
But the term used by government spinners this morning was direct jurisdiction.CornishJohn said:
That's not true at all. Indirect will have relevance in a tiny fraction of cases that direct does. Right now the ECJ is the ultimate arbiter on the vast bulk of UK law. An indirect influence situation after Brexit will be the tiny minority of cases where the contract/agreement was written under EU law. Indirect is far closer to no jurisdiction than it is to direct jurisdiction.TheScreamingEagles said:
Jurisdiction is a lot like pregnancy, it's a binary state, the court has it or it doesn't have it.FF43 said:
She will cling to grim death to the word "indirect". To be fair this does need to be fudged. For practical reasons that we benefit from, it has to be EU law applied according to ECJ judgments. But extraterritorial jurisdictions are a big problem that you can't airily wave away.TheScreamingEagles said:
Don't worry, Mrs May will disown that soon too.Scott_P said:
(In)direct jurisdiction is like being a little bit pregnant.0 -
Actually I would have said it was to ensure the non-movement of non-free people.TheScreamingEagles said:
The American Civil War was to do with the free movement of people.ydoethur said:
No.Luckyguy1983 said:
Wasn't the Confederacy more to do with taxes?Cyclefree said:
But his life is seen as one to emulate. If it's wrong to revere General Lee because of his role in the Confederacy whose reason for existing was slavery, why shouldn't the same be said of Mohammed who also had an equally repellent approach to slavery?Theuniondivvie said:
Though not an awful lot of statues of Mohammed to pull down.Cyclefree said:
Indeed. If supporting and practising slavery is to put historical figures beyond the pale, then what about this Mohammed fellow, eh? How appalling for people to look to him as some sort of exemplar. And what about Napoleon? He reintroduced slavery after the French revolution abolished it. And those ancient Greeks: very naughty indeed.Sandpit said:Good tongue-in-cheek from Iain Martin: If we’re going to start tearing down statues, then start with Karl Marx.
https://reaction.life/karl-marx-must-fall-ahead-admiral-nelson-surely/
Interestingly however their constitution did ban African immigration!0 -
Because they start from the position that the government is wrong on everything. It was said by one further down. Where the government is classed as 'pragmatic' in their dichotomy, it's a climbdown that is no different to the current situation. Where the government is classed as 'purist' in the dichotomy, it's headbangers drawing up the drawbridge.GIN1138 said:Why is it everytime the government releases a paper on our exit from the EU Remainers pretend that there's some major climbdown or disaster going on?
It's important to note that not all Remainers are like this. I often disagree with Richard Nabavi for example, but he is not a zealot on the matter, he is thoughtful and forms an independent view.0 -
-
How old are you? Five?TheScreamingEagles said:
You'll have to ask Dominic Raab, he started it.GIN1138 said:Why is it everytime the government releases a paper on our exit from the EU Remainers pretend that there's some major climbdown or disaster going on?
0 -
This Dominic Raab?TheScreamingEagles said:
You'll have to ask Dominic Raab, he started it.GIN1138 said:Why is it everytime the government releases a paper on our exit from the EU Remainers pretend that there's some major climbdown or disaster going on?
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/house/75976/dominic-raab-remain-are-getting-jittery-–-were-winning-debate
“I think the sensible thing, if it’s very close – within a couple of points – would be to take pause, respect the verdict of the British people and effectively shelve this debate until that point, which I hope is going to be as close to the 2020 election as possible.
“I think that’s the pragmatic, sensible approach. Then we can all get on with delivering the business of government.”
"[...] I think those that do want to revisit it should just pause for a few years and shelve it.”0 -
Thank you. I will have a read.williamglenn said:@CornishJohn - You may be interested in a group affiliated to the Gates Foundation's comments on African tariffs here. They were indeed concerned about tariff barriers - those placed on imports of anti-malarial drugs which they were pressuring African governments to remove.
http://alma2030.org/sites/default/files/head_of_state_meeting/mtap_-_tariff_and_ntb_fact_sheet.pdf0 -
Because there usually is - summer of rage, no following EU schedules, no EU jurisdiction, etc.GIN1138 said:Why is it everytime the government releases a paper on our exit from the EU Remainers pretend that there's some major climbdown or disaster going on?
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