Not sure. The south stayed pretty solid given almost the entire war was fought across their states and their economy was reduced to rubble (literally by Sherman and by the disappearance of vast numbers of their young men to the army and their labouring class upping sticks because they didnt much like staying around once they didnt have to).
A devils brew of threats to their way of life probably permeated pretty deep
"Our homes, our firesides, our land and negroes and even the virtue of our fair ones is at stake"
I think nationalism could be considered a factor. Bear in mind, most Southerners saw their state as their country (which is why I am ambivalent about calling Lee a traitor). They didn't like secession but they liked being invaded even less.
It is often said that the end of the civil war marks the point when Americans stopped saying "the United States are" and started saying "the United States is".
Were they wrong to go down this route, or should they have maintained the roughly 11% of seats they had in the decision making process of the UK at the time? I would suggest they had no real veto, they knew it, and decided going their own way was best for them. I imagine the vast majority of their great grand children agree with them.
Indeed. By a vast majority they agree that being a member of the EU and Eurozone is a superior way for a European nation to defend its interests in the modern world than being tied to the last vestige of the British Empire that is the United Kingdom. Let's hope we have the wisdom to learn from their example.
That's not my point as you well know.
Extending my own point slightly, it could turn out that Irish independence from the UK in the 20th century is the biggest single factor in scuppering UK independence from the EU in the 21st century.
If we didn't have the Irish border to worry about, the EU would have much less leverage in negotiations, and the idea of a political neo-Commonwealth 'Anglosphere' would be much more credible.
Kick-off time for Mayweather-McGregor is around 4am, depending on the undercard, which is itself quite tasty.
I have no idea if I can record the whole thing (I bought it via a Now TV box).
Do I: a) just stay up, watch it all and then be knacked for what is a bank holiday weekend; or b) go to bed, set the alarm for, say, 3am, and watch whatever is on the undercard and then the main fight; or c) try to record it all, wake up at the usual time and watch it then; or d) something else?
Were they wrong to go down this route, or should they have maintained the roughly 11% of seats they had in the decision making process of the UK at the time? I would suggest they had no real veto, they knew it, and decided going their own way was best for them. I imagine the vast majority of their great grand children agree with them.
Indeed. By a vast majority they agree that being a member of the EU and Eurozone is a superior way for a European nation to defend its interests in the modern world than being tied to the last vestige of the British Empire that is the United Kingdom. Let's hope we have the wisdom to learn from their example.
That's not my point as you well know.
Extending my own point slightly, it could turn out that Irish independence from the UK in the 20th century is the biggest single factor in scuppering UK independence from the EU in the 21st century.
If we didn't have the Irish border to worry about, the EU would have much less leverage in negotiations, and the idea of a political neo-Commonwealth 'Anglosphere' would be much more credible.
You think we should invade them?
If Putin were in charge of delivering Brexit the annexation of Ireland and the repression of Remoaners would certainly be on the cards.
Mr. Rawzer, true, but I do think that line can be overplayed. Polybius' history of the Second Punic War and Thucydides' of The Peloponnesian War spring to mind.
Not sure. The south stayed pretty solid given almost the entire war was fought across their states and their economy was reduced to rubble (literally by Sherman and by the disappearance of vast numbers of their young men to the army and their labouring class upping sticks because they didnt much like staying around once they didnt have to).
A devils brew of threats to their way of life probably permeated pretty deep
"Our homes, our firesides, our land and negroes and even the virtue of our fair ones is at stake"
I think nationalism could be considered a factor. Bear in mind, most Southerners saw their state as their country (which is why I am ambivalent about calling Lee a traitor). They didn't like secession but they liked being invaded even less.
Incidentally I was reading a comment that Lee is not comparable to Washington or Jefferson because Washington and Jefferson were not traitors. I was reminded of Harrington's comment:
Treason doth never prosper - why, what's the reason? If it doth prosper, none dare call it treason.
The matter seems very pertinent for Washington and Lee college. Are there any markets on whether it will change its name?
Lee is really interesting I think. He was offered command of the Union army and rejected it because he felt his loyalty, despite his opposition to secession, lay with his state first.
It seems strange when you visit Arlington national cemetery to think that was his family home before he hopped off south to join the Confederacy and it got confiscated
There are things to admire about him I think - not least a couple of examples of truly supreme generalship (as well as at least one almighty screw up)
But yes thats why I am torn on the statue thing. The case, if there is one, to remove it is not because its Lee, its because it has been forced into becoming a symbol of something repulsive that is in the now rather than just a historical artefact.
Lee was an honourable soldier who fought for a dishonourable cause. I am concerned that these statues are being used by those who favour the kind of thinking that ran behind that dishonourable cause and I can see why black citizens of the Southern States would find that insulting and insensitive. But I am generally against removing statues of people long dead. The Eastern European cases were somewhat different.
All in all, it was nothing to do with Brexit, and trying to score points over it is as futile as the Gina Miller blacking up lies
There actually I must disagree. If it hadn't been for Brexit, she wouldn't have applied unnecessarily for leave to remain, wouldn't have put in the wrong paperwork, wouldn't have been rejected and wouldn't have been sent the letter by mistake.
So although with hindsight it is a bit of a storm in a teacup, it clearly is linked to Brexit.
And if it had been some more elderly person worried about their status but without the intellectual capabilities that studying 17th century travel modes in England evidently requires, then they might have ended up being deported.
Don't you think the Home Office would have realised they sent the letter in error under those circumstances then? The other 100 people wouldn't have either?
If you get a Home Office letter telling you to leave the country, don't you think there's a chance that a law-abiding citizen who prefers to defer to authority might just comply?
Not sure. The south stayed pretty solid given almost the entire war was fought across their states and their economy was reduced to rubble (literally by Sherman and by the disappearance of vast numbers of their young men to the army and their labouring class upping sticks because they didnt much like staying around once they didnt have to).
A devils brew of threats to their way of life probably permeated pretty deep
"Our homes, our firesides, our land and negroes and even the virtue of our fair ones is at stake"
I think nationalism could be considered a factor. Bear in mind, most Southerners saw their state as their country (which is why I am ambivalent about calling Lee a traitor). They didn't like secession but they liked being invaded even less.
It is often said that the end of the civil war marks the point when Americans stopped saying "the United States are" and started saying "the United States is".
I wonder if Brexit will be the same for the EU? If so, I also hope it is less violent and destructive than the Civil War and Reconstruction.
(Obviously in terms of simple grammar it doesn't work, but in terms of one European country it just might.)
Kick-off time for Mayweather-McGregor is around 4am, depending on the undercard, which is itself quite tasty.
I have no idea if I can record the whole thing (I bought it via a Now TV box).
Do I: a) just stay up, watch it all and then be knacked for what is a bank holiday weekend; or b) go to bed, set the alarm for, say, 3am, and watch whatever is on the undercard and then the main fight; or c) try to record it all, wake up at the usual time and watch it then; or d) something else?
Watch England win the Test match on day 3 again? In fairness even against the Windies it should be closer than the fight.
Kick-off time for Mayweather-McGregor is around 4am, depending on the undercard, which is itself quite tasty.
I have no idea if I can record the whole thing (I bought it via a Now TV box).
Do I: a) just stay up, watch it all and then be knacked for what is a bank holiday weekend; or b) go to bed, set the alarm for, say, 3am, and watch whatever is on the undercard and then the main fight; or c) try to record it all, wake up at the usual time and watch it then; or d) something else?
Travel to a different time zone for the weekend?
It does seem that the UK (and Ireland) has about the worst possible time for the fight on the whole planet.
7am for me, an early alarm call for a Sunday but doable with a more relaxed Saturday night than usual...
Maybe the best way is to watch it recorded as soon as you get up, having switched off your phone before going to bed and making sure you don’t wake up to the radio.
Not sure. The south stayed pretty solid given almost the entire war was fought across their states and their economy was reduced to rubble (literally by Sherman and by the disappearance of vast numbers of their young men to the army and their labouring class upping sticks because they didnt much like staying around once they didnt have to).
A devils brew of threats to their way of life probably permeated pretty deep
"Our homes, our firesides, our land and negroes and even the virtue of our fair ones is at stake"
I think nationalism could be considered a factor. Bear in mind, most Southerners saw their state as their country (which is why I am ambivalent about calling Lee a traitor). They didn't like secession but they liked being invaded even less.
Incidentally I was reading a comment that Lee is not comparable to Washington or Jefferson because Washington and Jefferson were not traitors. I was reminded of Harrington's comment:
Treason doth never prosper - why, what's the reason? If it doth prosper, none dare call it treason.
The matter seems very pertinent for Washington and Lee college. Are there any markets on whether it will change its name?
Lee is really interesting I think. He was offered command of the Union army and rejected it because he felt his loyalty, despite his opposition to secession, lay with his state first.
It seems strange when you visit Arlington national cemetery to think that was his family home before he hopped off south to join the Confederacy and it got confiscated
There are things to admire about him I think - not least a couple of examples of truly supreme generalship (as well as at least one almighty screw up)
But yes thats why I am torn on the statue thing. The case, if there is one, to remove it is not because its Lee, its because it has been forced into becoming a symbol of something repulsive that is in the now rather than just a historical artefact.
Lee quite specifically didn't want any confederate war monuments - he thought they would prevent the nation healing.
Lee is really interesting I think. He was offered command of the Union army and rejected it because he felt his loyalty, despite his opposition to secession, lay with his state first.
It seems strange when you visit Arlington national cemetery to think that was his family home before he hopped off south to join the Confederacy and it got confiscated
There are things to admire about him I think - not least a couple of examples of truly supreme generalship (as well as at least one almighty screw up)
But yes thats why I am torn on the statue thing. The case, if there is one, to remove it is not because its Lee, its because it has been forced into becoming a symbol of something repulsive that is in the now rather than just a historical artefact.
Lee was an honourable soldier who fought for a dishonourable cause. I am concerned that these statues are being used by those who favour the kind of thinking that ran behind that dishonourable cause and I can see why black citizens of the Southern States would find that insulting and insensitive. But I am generally against removing statues of people long dead. The Eastern European cases were somewhat different.
Instinctively so am I, but the day I see them surrounded by guys with guns draped in swastikas and being turned into a beacon issue for the hard right I start to question those instincts. Its a trap now -- if they take them down the hard right have a cause they can use to engage with the more normal right, if they get left up they have a victory. euggh
Were they wrong to go down this route, or should they have maintained the roughly 11% of seats they had in the decision making process of the UK at the time? I would suggest they had no real veto, they knew it, and decided going their own way was best for them. I imagine the vast majority of their great grand children agree with them.
Indeed. By a vast majority they agree that being a member of the EU and Eurozone is a superior way for a European nation to defend its interests in the modern world than being tied to the last vestige of the British Empire that is the United Kingdom. Let's hope we have the wisdom to learn from their example.
That's not my point as you well know.
Extending my own point slightly, it could turn out that Irish independence from the UK in the 20th century is the biggest single factor in scuppering UK independence from the EU in the 21st century.
If we didn't have the Irish border to worry about, the EU would have much less leverage in negotiations, and the idea of a political neo-Commonwealth 'Anglosphere' would be much more credible.
Are you Irish by the way?
The Irish are of course pretty keen to say the least on the UK staying in the customs union. It makes most of Varadakar's issues go away. Hence the more robust noises emerging from Dublin since Kenny's departure. However, it's a tricky game for him as the absence of an agreement will probably hit them with an almighty bang.
Not sure. The south stayed pretty solid given almost the entire war was fought across their states and their economy was reduced to rubble (literally by Sherman and by the disappearance of vast numbers of their young men to the army and their labouring class upping sticks because they didnt much like staying around once they didnt have to).
A devils brew of threats to their way of life probably permeated pretty deep
"Our homes, our firesides, our land and negroes and even the virtue of our fair ones is at stake"
I think nationalism could be considered a factor. Bear in mind, most Southerners saw their state as their country (which is why I am ambivalent about calling Lee a traitor). They didn't like secession but they liked being invaded even less.
Incidentally I was reading a comment that Lee is not comparable to Washington or Jefferson because Washington and Jefferson were not traitors. I was reminded of Harrington's comment:
Treason doth never prosper - why, what's the reason? If it doth prosper, none dare call it treason.
The matter seems very pertinent for Washington and Lee college. Are there any markets on whether it will change its name?
Lee is really interesting I think. He was offered command of the Union army and rejected it because he felt his loyalty, despite his opposition to secession, lay with his state first.
It seems strange when you visit Arlington national cemetery to think that was his family home before he hopped off south to join the Confederacy and it got confiscated
There are things to admire about him I think - not least a couple of examples of truly supreme generalship (as well as at least one almighty screw up)
But yes thats why I am torn on the statue thing. The case, if there is one, to remove it is not because its Lee, its because it has been forced into becoming a symbol of something repulsive that is in the now rather than just a historical artefact.
Lee quite specifically didn't want any confederate war monuments - he thought they would prevent the nation healing.
Were they wrong to go down this route, or should they have maintained the roughly 11% of seats they had in the decision making process of the UK at the time? I would suggest they had no real veto, they knew it, and decided going their own way was best for them. I imagine the vast majority of their great grand children agree with them.
Indeed. By a vast majority they agree that being a member of the EU and Eurozone is a superior way for a European nation to defend its interests in the modern world than being tied to the last vestige of the British Empire that is the United Kingdom. Let's hope we have the wisdom to learn from their example.
That's not my point as you well know.
Extending my own point slightly, it could turn out that Irish independence from the UK in the 20th century is the biggest single factor in scuppering UK independence from the EU in the 21st century.
If we didn't have the Irish border to worry about, the EU would have much less leverage in negotiations, and the idea of a political neo-Commonwealth 'Anglosphere' would be much more credible.
Lee was an honourable soldier who fought for a dishonourable cause. I am concerned that these statues are being used by those who favour the kind of thinking that ran behind that dishonourable cause and I can see why black citizens of the Southern States would find that insulting and insensitive. But I am generally against removing statues of people long dead. The Eastern European cases were somewhat different.
@rawzer said: Instinctively so am I, but the day I see them surrounded by guys with guns draped in swastikas and being turned into a beacon issue for the hard right I start to question those instincts. Its a trap now -- if they take them down the hard right have a cause they can use to engage with the more normal right, if they get left up they have a victory. euggh
Kick-off time for Mayweather-McGregor is around 4am, depending on the undercard, which is itself quite tasty.
I have no idea if I can record the whole thing (I bought it via a Now TV box).
Do I: a) just stay up, watch it all and then be knacked for what is a bank holiday weekend; or b) go to bed, set the alarm for, say, 3am, and watch whatever is on the undercard and then the main fight; or c) try to record it all, wake up at the usual time and watch it then; or d) something else?
Watch England win the Test match on day 3 again? In fairness even against the Windies it should be closer than the fight.
ha fair enough and yes but it (the fight) is also unmissable!!
Kick-off time for Mayweather-McGregor is around 4am, depending on the undercard, which is itself quite tasty.
I have no idea if I can record the whole thing (I bought it via a Now TV box).
Do I: a) just stay up, watch it all and then be knacked for what is a bank holiday weekend; or b) go to bed, set the alarm for, say, 3am, and watch whatever is on the undercard and then the main fight; or c) try to record it all, wake up at the usual time and watch it then; or d) something else?
Travel to a different time zone for the weekend?
It does seem that the UK (and Ireland) has about the worst possible time for the fight on the whole planet.
7am for me, an early alarm call for a Sunday but doable with a more relaxed Saturday night than usual...
Maybe the best way is to watch it recorded as soon as you get up, having switched off your phone before going to bed and making sure you don’t wake up to the radio.
yes a good plan - but thing is, I would have to be drinking whisky while I watch it and that doesn't quite work or doesn't work as well at 9am on a Sunday...but yes thanks good suggestion.
Charlie Alliston, 20, found guilty of causing bodily harm over collision with Kim Briggs, who sustained ‘catastrophic’ head injuries and died
Speaking as a cyclist if the facts are as reported, he can consider himself pretty fortunate with that verdict.
Cyclists are more often the victims than causes of accidents round Old Street. Anyone cycling at high speed round there needs their heads examined, never mind on a bike with no brakes.
Charlie Alliston, 20, found guilty of causing bodily harm over collision with Kim Briggs, who sustained ‘catastrophic’ head injuries and died
I suspect a lot of this goes unpunished because the cyclist can just ride off, being unregistered and thus untraceable. Being unlicensed, untrained and uninsured can't help.
Charlie Alliston, 20, found guilty of causing bodily harm over collision with Kim Briggs, who sustained ‘catastrophic’ head injuries and died
Speaking as a cyclist if the facts are as reported, he can consider himself pretty fortunate with that verdict.
It seems he entered unilaterally into a mutual pact where both sides are required to pay attention to their surroundings, but hadn't checked that that was what the other party agreed to.
Lee was an honourable soldier who fought for a dishonourable cause.
How would we feel if a German town put up a statue of Rommel, I wonder?
Well, my grandfather was in the Eighth Army. He wasn't so far as I know big on statues but given a choice there is no doubt he would have preferred one of Rommel to one of Montgomery.
Edit - there is of course a statue erected where von Stauffenberg was shot. But I don't think it's of him personally. Or at least, if it is they maybe went a bit far in the removing of the Wehrmacht symbols that might cause embarrassment.
Charlie Alliston, 20, found guilty of causing bodily harm over collision with Kim Briggs, who sustained ‘catastrophic’ head injuries and died
Speaking as a cyclist if the facts are as reported, he can consider himself pretty fortunate with that verdict.
It seems he entered unilaterally into a mutual pact where both sides are required to pay attention to their surroundings, but hadn't checked that that was what the other party agreed to.
I was thinking more that if he was riding a bike with no front brake at 18mph he was behaving to put it mildly with criminal recklessness.
Charlie Alliston, 20, found guilty of causing bodily harm over collision with Kim Briggs, who sustained ‘catastrophic’ head injuries and died
Speaking as a cyclist if the facts are as reported, he can consider himself pretty fortunate with that verdict.
Yes, I think so.
There are unfortunately rather too many irresponsible cyclists in London. It's quite often I see them jumping red lights and even ploughing through pedestrian crossings at high speed when the lights are against them. Of course, Alastair is also right that cyclists are often the victims rather than the causes of accidents as well.
Charlie Alliston, 20, found guilty of causing bodily harm over collision with Kim Briggs, who sustained ‘catastrophic’ head injuries and died
Speaking as a cyclist if the facts are as reported, he can consider himself pretty fortunate with that verdict.
It seems he entered unilaterally into a mutual pact where both sides are required to pay attention to their surroundings, but hadn't checked that that was what the other party agreed to.
I was thinking more that if he was riding a bike with no front brake at 18mph he was behaving to put it mildly with criminal recklessness.
Yes, a track bike isn’t a road bike. Lucky it wasn’t manslaughter.
Lee was an honourable soldier who fought for a dishonourable cause.
How would we feel if a German town put up a statue of Rommel, I wonder?
My grandfather was killed at Alamein but would I be that bothered? Not sure. He was a complex man whose support for the Nazis is often understated but a brilliant tactician.
This is much worse. This is a statue of Rommel in my home town, perhaps right next to the Black Watch Memorial. I would indeed be insulted by that and there is a painful lack of consideration about how the relatives of the slaves feel about this.
Charlie Alliston, 20, found guilty of causing bodily harm over collision with Kim Briggs, who sustained ‘catastrophic’ head injuries and died
Speaking as a cyclist if the facts are as reported, he can consider himself pretty fortunate with that verdict.
It seems he entered unilaterally into a mutual pact where both sides are required to pay attention to their surroundings, but hadn't checked that that was what the other party agreed to.
I was thinking more that if he was riding a bike with no front brake at 18mph he was behaving to put it mildly with criminal recklessness.
Yes, a track bike isn’t a road bike. Lucky it wasn’t manslaughter.
Presumably at some point it was deemed that whatever the bike, if someone behaves unpredictably (the pedestrian), then the chances of a collision increases dramatically.
'Any increase in low-cost food imports into the UK that would undermine the value of the UK market would have a devastating effect on the Irish agri-food sector. The potential displacement of Irish food exports from the UK market will in turn destabilise the EU market balance.'
'In order to safeguard the future value of the Irish and EU farming and food sector, the EU must negotiate a balanced Free Trade Agreement with the UK, which would include the following specific conditions for agriculture and food:
• Tariff - free trade for agricultural products and food; • Maintenance of equivalent standards on food safety, animal health, welfare and the environment; and • Application of the Common External Tariff for agricultural and food imports to both the EU and UK. '
These conditions are unacceptable to the UK. Food safety standards in the EU mean we import EU pork with HEV, eggs with salmonella, chicken with dangerous levels of pesticide, horse meat - and 20% water in our meat. Treating food safety standards as equivalent has been killing people in this country. And the Common External Tariff would prevent us from signing free trade deals with Australia and New Zealand.
I begin to believe Varadkar is right in wanting to break the links between the UK and the Irish Republic, and in his wish to bring the CTA to an end. I can support him in that.
Just a note to say how much I appreciated the causes of the American Civil War discussion. My formal study of American history stopped with the Pilgrim Fathers, and has been continued only informally through popular fiction so such an informed discussion was fascinating. Thanks all.
Not sure. The south stayed pretty solid given almost the entire war was fought across their states and their economy was reduced to rubble (literally by Sherman and by the disappearance of vast numbers of their young men to the army and their labouring class upping sticks because they didnt much like staying around once they didnt have to).
A devils brew of threats to their way of life probably permeated pretty deep
"Our homes, our firesides, our land and negroes and even the virtue of our fair ones is at stake"
I think nationalism could be considered a factor. Bear in mind, most Southerners saw their state as their country (which is why I am ambivalent about calling Lee a traitor). They didn't like secession but they liked being invaded even less.
Incidentally I was reading a comment that Lee is not comparable to Washington or Jefferson because Washington and Jefferson were not traitors. I was reminded of Harrington's comment:
Treason doth never prosper - why, what's the reason? If it doth prosper, none dare call it treason.
The matter seems very pertinent for Washington and Lee college. Are there any markets on whether it will change its name?
Lee is really interesting I think. He was offered command of the Union army and rejected it because he felt his loyalty, despite his opposition to secession, lay with his state first.
It seems strange when you visit Arlington national cemetery to think that was his family home before he hopped off south to join the Confederacy and it got confiscated
There are things to admire about him I think - not least a couple of examples of truly supreme generalship (as well as at least one almighty screw up)
But yes thats why I am torn on the statue thing. The case, if there is one, to remove it is not because its Lee, its because it has been forced into becoming a symbol of something repulsive that is in the now rather than just a historical artefact.
Lee quite specifically didn't want any confederate war monuments - he thought they would prevent the nation healing.
Mr. Doethur, not up on war stuff. Why did he prefer Rommel?
Edited extra bit: modern/World War Two stuff, obviously.
He didn't go into details, but he gave a few pointers. First of all, he admired Rommel as a general - bearing in mind until he turned up the Italians were on the point of being cleared from Africa entirely, then suddenly the Commonwealth armies were pushed right back to the Qatarra Depression practically without a pause for breath. Secondly, he thought Montgomery was an arrogant fool, which of course was correct (anyone who doubts that should study Market Garden). But I think the most important factor was personal - Montgomery ordered 9th Amroured Brigade forward without discernible reason and without sending any support to exploit an opening if they made one. And my grandfather was in 9th Armoured.
I don't necessarily buy in fully to the idea of Rommel's brilliance or his gallantry - the circumstantial evidence of war crimes in France is too strong to be overlooked entirely - but he was certainly a remarkable man.
Charlie Alliston, 20, found guilty of causing bodily harm over collision with Kim Briggs, who sustained ‘catastrophic’ head injuries and died
Speaking as a cyclist if the facts are as reported, he can consider himself pretty fortunate with that verdict.
Yes, I think so.
There are unfortunately rather too many irresponsible cyclists in London. It's quite often I see them jumping red lights and even ploughing through pedestrian crossings at high speed when the lights are against them. Of course, Alastair is also right that cyclists are often the victims rather than the causes of accidents as well.
Its the "get out of the way" mind set I find a little disturbing. A bit like that jogger who pushed the woman in front of a bus recently. There are an alarming number of people for whom it is all about them.
Just a note to say how much I appreciated the causes of the American Civil War discussion. My formal study of American history stopped with the Pilgrim Fathers, and has been continued only informally through popular fiction so such an informed discussion was fascinating. Thanks all.
Go crazy - the entire Yale Undergraduate course for nowt
Incidentally, Rommel got a quick mention in the recent Lindybeige video about Dunkirk and the Battle of Arras[sp]. British Matila I and II tanks were flattening the Germans (in small numbers), whose anti-tank guns weren't any use. Rommel was the chap on the ground who repurposed flak cannons, which could pierce the tank armour, but it was still a useful attack for buying time for the evacuation.
Were they wrong to go down this route, or should they have maintained the roughly 11% of seats they had in the decision making process of the UK at the time? I would suggest they had no real veto, they knew it, and decided going their own way was best for them. I imagine the vast majority of their great grand children agree with them.
Indeed. By a vast majority they agree that being a member of the EU and Eurozone is a superior way for a European nation to defend its interests in the modern world than being tied to the last vestige of the British Empire that is the United Kingdom. Let's hope we have the wisdom to learn from their example.
That's not my point as you well know.
Extending my own point slightly, it could turn out that Irish independence from the UK in the 20th century is the biggest single factor in scuppering UK independence from the EU in the 21st century.
If we didn't have the Irish border to worry about, the EU would have much less leverage in negotiations, and the idea of a political neo-Commonwealth 'Anglosphere' would be much more credible.
Are you Irish by the way?
The Irish are of course pretty keen to say the least on the UK staying in the customs union. It makes most of Varadakar's issues go away. Hence the more robust noises emerging from Dublin since Kenny's departure. However, it's a tricky game for him as the absence of an agreement will probably hit them with an almighty bang.
Ireland may end up doing well out of Brexit if they get hold of a chunk of the finance business that was previously in London and if the UK stays in the EU "customs union". The latter has a good chance of happening despite UK government denials IMO. A customs union is the logical conclusion of their position papers that make no sense without it.
Charlie Alliston, 20, found guilty of causing bodily harm over collision with Kim Briggs, who sustained ‘catastrophic’ head injuries and died
Speaking as a cyclist if the facts are as reported, he can consider himself pretty fortunate with that verdict.
Yes, I think so.
There are unfortunately rather too many irresponsible cyclists in London. It's quite often I see them jumping red lights and even ploughing through pedestrian crossings at high speed when the lights are against them. Of course, Alastair is also right that cyclists are often the victims rather than the causes of accidents as well.
Its the "get out of the way" mind set I find a little disturbing. A bit like that jogger who pushed the woman in front of a bus recently. There are an alarming number of people for whom it is all about them.
I haven't read the details so can't comment from any position of knowledge (I know...nothing new there) but it seems that if he was riding in the road, and a woman stepped out in front of him while texting, that it is by no means as clear cut as indeed the jury noted.
Is that good news for exporters, or good news that the pound is worth more than any of the other currencies?
Good news for exporters right now, despite brexit.
I won't be able to stick parity into the 2H forecast though, much as I'd like to. Our customers/banks won't pay travel agency markups on their contracts.
Charlie Alliston, 20, found guilty of causing bodily harm over collision with Kim Briggs, who sustained ‘catastrophic’ head injuries and died
Speaking as a cyclist if the facts are as reported, he can consider himself pretty fortunate with that verdict.
Yes, I think so.
There are unfortunately rather too many irresponsible cyclists in London. It's quite often I see them jumping red lights and even ploughing through pedestrian crossings at high speed when the lights are against them. Of course, Alastair is also right that cyclists are often the victims rather than the causes of accidents as well.
Its the "get out of the way" mind set I find a little disturbing. A bit like that jogger who pushed the woman in front of a bus recently. There are an alarming number of people for whom it is all about them.
I haven't read the details so can't comment from any position of knowledge (I know...nothing new there) but it seems that if he was riding in the road, and a woman stepped out in front of him while texting, that it is by no means as clear cut as indeed the jury noted.
That's probably what saved him. But to ride a bike at that speed without adequate brakes...very stupid.
I cycle along shared spaces here in Cannock - not an arrangement I like, but we are where we are. The first rule is, only ride as fast as you can safely stop if somebody blithely ignores you.
Is that good news for exporters, or good news that the pound is worth more than any of the other currencies?
Good news for exporters right now, despite brexit.
I won't be able to stick parity into the 2H forecast though, much as I'd like to. Our customers/banks won't pay travel agency markups on their contracts.
The actual mid price is around 1.0840, so that travel agent pictured has a somewhat usurious 16.8% spread.
Its the "get out of the way" mind set I find a little disturbing. A bit like that jogger who pushed the woman in front of a bus recently. There are an alarming number of people for whom it is all about them.
I haven't read the details so can't comment from any position of knowledge (I know...nothing new there) but it seems that if he was riding in the road, and a woman stepped out in front of him while texting, that it is by no means as clear cut as indeed the jury noted.
It was the comments referred to in the article on the BBC. him shouting to her twice "get out of the way". It is possible that she wasn't paying attention and focusing on her phone but it does sound like he had some time to respond.
As someone who has to put up with tourists to the Festival in Edinburgh I do have some sympathy. There are slime moulds on the forest floor that move with more purpose, clarity and consideration than the average tourist in Edinburgh at this time of year. But you have to adjust your behaviour accordingly, no matter how satisfying it would be to run them down.
Charlie Alliston, 20, found guilty of causing bodily harm over collision with Kim Briggs, who sustained ‘catastrophic’ head injuries and died
Speaking as a cyclist if the facts are as reported, he can consider himself pretty fortunate with that verdict.
Yes, I think so.
There are unfortunately rather too many irresponsible cyclists in London. It's quite often I see them jumping red lights and even ploughing through pedestrian crossings at high speed when the lights are against them. Of course, Alastair is also right that cyclists are often the victims rather than the causes of accidents as well.
Its the "get out of the way" mind set I find a little disturbing. A bit like that jogger who pushed the woman in front of a bus recently. There are an alarming number of people for whom it is all about them.
I haven't read the details so can't comment from any position of knowledge (I know...nothing new there) but it seems that if he was riding in the road, and a woman stepped out in front of him while texting, that it is by no means as clear cut as indeed the jury noted.
That's probably what saved him. But to ride a bike at that speed without adequate brakes...very stupid.
I cycle along shared spaces here in Cannock - not an arrangement I like, but we are where we are. The first rule is, only ride as fast as you can safely stop if somebody blithely ignores you.
Charlie Alliston, 20, found guilty of causing bodily harm over collision with Kim Briggs, who sustained ‘catastrophic’ head injuries and died
Speaking as a cyclist if the facts are as reported, he can consider himself pretty fortunate with that verdict.
Yes, I think so.
There are unfortunately rather too many irresponsible cyclists in London. It's quite often I see them jumping red lights and even ploughing through pedestrian crossings at high speed when the lights are against them. Of course, Alastair is also right that cyclists are often the victims rather than the causes of accidents as well.
Its the "get out of the way" mind set I find a little disturbing. A bit like that jogger who pushed the woman in front of a bus recently. There are an alarming number of people for whom it is all about them.
I haven't read the details so can't comment from any position of knowledge (I know...nothing new there) but it seems that if he was riding in the road, and a woman stepped out in front of him while texting, that it is by no means as clear cut as indeed the jury noted.
That's probably what saved him. But to ride a bike at that speed without adequate brakes...very stupid.
I cycle along shared spaces here in Cannock - not an arrangement I like, but we are where we are. The first rule is, only ride as fast as you can safely stop if somebody blithely ignores you.
Yes I think that is also fair.
Another quote from my grandfather - 'there's no merit in charging on, be part of an accident and die shouting 'it was my right of way!'
With that I have to go. Have a good afternoon everybody. I shall probably be away for a few days but will hope to be back early next week.
Its the "get out of the way" mind set I find a little disturbing. A bit like that jogger who pushed the woman in front of a bus recently. There are an alarming number of people for whom it is all about them.
I haven't read the details so can't comment from any position of knowledge (I know...nothing new there) but it seems that if he was riding in the road, and a woman stepped out in front of him while texting, that it is by no means as clear cut as indeed the jury noted.
It was the comments referred to in the article on the BBC. him shouting to her twice "get out of the way". It is possible that she wasn't paying attention and focusing on her phone but it does sound like he had some time to respond.
As someone who has to put up with tourists to the Festival in Edinburgh I do have some sympathy. There are slime moulds on the forest floor that move with more purpose, clarity and consideration than the average tourist in Edinburgh at this time of year. But you have to adjust your behaviour accordingly, no matter how satisfying it would be to run them down.
Indeed if he had the time to twice shout at her to get out of the way, why did he not have the time to use his brakes that he is legally required to have on his bike?
Comments
Kick-off time for Mayweather-McGregor is around 4am, depending on the undercard, which is itself quite tasty.
I have no idea if I can record the whole thing (I bought it via a Now TV box).
Do I:
a) just stay up, watch it all and then be knacked for what is a bank holiday weekend; or
b) go to bed, set the alarm for, say, 3am, and watch whatever is on the undercard and then the main fight; or
c) try to record it all, wake up at the usual time and watch it then; or
d) something else?
(Obviously in terms of simple grammar it doesn't work, but in terms of one European country it just might.)
It does seem that the UK (and Ireland) has about the worst possible time for the fight on the whole planet.
7am for me, an early alarm call for a Sunday but doable with a more relaxed Saturday night than usual...
Maybe the best way is to watch it recorded as soon as you get up, having switched off your phone before going to bed and making sure you don’t wake up to the radio.
Charlie Alliston, 20, found guilty of causing bodily harm over collision with Kim Briggs, who sustained ‘catastrophic’ head injuries and died
"Apple even looked into reinventing the wheel."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/22/technology/apple-self-driving-car.html
The Irish are of course pretty keen to say the least on the UK staying in the customs union. It makes most of Varadakar's issues go away. Hence the more robust noises emerging from Dublin since Kenny's departure. However, it's a tricky game for him as the absence of an agreement will probably hit them with an almighty bang.
https://www.axios.com/trump-omits-both-sides-while-blaming-reporters-for-racial-tension-2476102349.html
He is utterly deluded, he really is.
@rawzer said:
Instinctively so am I, but the day I see them surrounded by guys with guns draped in swastikas and being turned into a beacon issue for the hard right I start to question those instincts. Its a trap now -- if they take them down the hard right have a cause they can use to engage with the more normal right, if they get left up they have a victory. euggh
Its an ugly sight, there is no denying that.
Edit - there is of course a statue erected where von Stauffenberg was shot. But I don't think it's of him personally. Or at least, if it is they maybe went a bit far in the removing of the Wehrmacht symbols that might cause embarrassment.
Edited extra bit: modern/World War Two stuff, obviously.
There are unfortunately rather too many irresponsible cyclists in London. It's quite often I see them jumping red lights and even ploughing through pedestrian crossings at high speed when the lights are against them. Of course, Alastair is also right that cyclists are often the victims rather than the causes of accidents as well.
This is much worse. This is a statue of Rommel in my home town, perhaps right next to the Black Watch Memorial. I would indeed be insulted by that and there is a painful lack of consideration about how the relatives of the slaves feel about this.
'Any increase in low-cost food imports into the UK that would undermine the value of the UK market would have a devastating effect on the Irish agri-food sector. The potential displacement of Irish food exports from the UK market will in turn destabilise the EU market balance.'
'In order to safeguard the future value of the Irish and EU farming and food sector, the EU must negotiate a balanced Free Trade Agreement with the UK, which would include the following specific conditions for agriculture and food:
• Tariff - free trade for agricultural products and food;
• Maintenance of equivalent standards on food safety, animal health, welfare and the environment; and
• Application of the Common External Tariff for agricultural and food imports to both the EU and UK. '
These conditions are unacceptable to the UK. Food safety standards in the EU mean we import EU pork with HEV, eggs with salmonella, chicken with dangerous levels of pesticide, horse meat - and 20% water in our meat. Treating food safety standards as equivalent has been killing people in this country. And the Common External Tariff would prevent us from signing free trade deals with Australia and New Zealand.
I begin to believe Varadkar is right in wanting to break the links between the UK and the Irish Republic, and in his wish to bring the CTA to an end. I can support him in that.
Thanks all.
http://leefamilyarchive.org/9-family-papers/861-robert-e-lee-to-david-mcconaughy-1869-august-5
I don't necessarily buy in fully to the idea of Rommel's brilliance or his gallantry - the circumstantial evidence of war crimes in France is too strong to be overlooked entirely - but he was certainly a remarkable man.
Is that good news for exporters, or good news that the pound is worth more than any of the other currencies?
https://itunes.apple.com/gb/itunes-u/the-civil-war-and-reconstruction-era-1845-1877-audio/id341650730?mt=10
Incidentally, Rommel got a quick mention in the recent Lindybeige video about Dunkirk and the Battle of Arras[sp]. British Matila I and II tanks were flattening the Germans (in small numbers), whose anti-tank guns weren't any use. Rommel was the chap on the ground who repurposed flak cannons, which could pierce the tank armour, but it was still a useful attack for buying time for the evacuation.
I won't be able to stick parity into the 2H forecast though, much as I'd like to. Our customers/banks won't pay travel agency markups on their contracts.
I cycle along shared spaces here in Cannock - not an arrangement I like, but we are where we are. The first rule is, only ride as fast as you can safely stop if somebody blithely ignores you.
It remains to be seen whether the approach taken would be viewed by the electorate as sailing between Scylla and Charybdis, or visiting both.
As someone who has to put up with tourists to the Festival in Edinburgh I do have some sympathy. There are slime moulds on the forest floor that move with more purpose, clarity and consideration than the average tourist in Edinburgh at this time of year. But you have to adjust your behaviour accordingly, no matter how satisfying it would be to run them down.
With that I have to go. Have a good afternoon everybody. I shall probably be away for a few days but will hope to be back early next week.
NEW THREAD
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