politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Theresa’s Tories still being hit by the GE2017 branding gamble
Comments
-
Oh yes, but before long an "event" will occur that is out of her hands, another Grenfell or Borough Market. Her reaction may make or break her.TOPPING said:
You've either got the want to go for a drink with factor or you haven't.freetochoose said:
Something will happen before long that will give her the opportunity to re-assert herself. Whether or not she's up to it remains to be seen.AlastairMeeks said:What is it that Theresa May is going to say or do that will change people's opinions of her again? It's hard to imagine in practice.
I doubt it personally.
She transparently doesn't have it, which was fine when the perception was we need a harsh taskmistress to get us through Brexit. But this no longer applies now either - you can't be a harsh taskmistress if no one needs to listen to you and your threats.
She now just has to soldier on.
Anyway I'm not bothered tbh, she is typical of a modern politician, she stands for nothing, she could go on holiday 40 weeks of the year nothing would change.0 -
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/638679/North-Korea-Kim-Jong-Un-Donald-Trump-war-UK-back-America-World-War-3-fearsSandyRentool said:
I'd be surprised if Argentina invades the Falklands this side of the next General Election.freetochoose said:
Something will happen before long that will give her the opportunity to re-assert herself. Whether or not she's up to it remains to be seen.AlastairMeeks said:What is it that Theresa May is going to say or do that will change people's opinions of her again? It's hard to imagine in practice.
I doubt it personally.
Where else might she start a war?0 -
Mr. 619, I do recall the ITV political jester-in-chief asking the terrible and hard-hitting question: "If you become PM would you give up your allotment?"
How Corbyn coped with that I really don't know.
On a more serious note, I forget the precise wording but Peston had a horrendous propaganda piece where he attacked May for trying to have it both ways on terrorism after the Manchester attack (something along the lines of trying to all be together, which was broadly in line, I think, with her speech, and an invented attack that she was having a go at Muslims).
The political media in this country is horrendous and is perhaps worse now than it's been before. Old hands here may remember, around 2009, I condemned them for blaming Brown for things that weren't his fault.0 -
If you'd had dealings with them you'd have little sympathy.TGOHF said:
You think those drunken pikeys should have been shot dead on Saturday night ?foxinsoxuk said:
The equivalent to Cambrils would perhaps be Cromer.TGOHF said:
Did you miss the Borough Market incident ?foxinsoxuk said:
Spanish police do seem very effective. Gunning down 5 terrorists in a resort like cambrils before they got anyone was particularly so, as not a high profile area.isam said:
Finnish plod not slouches either. About time our boys in blue got firearms as a routine.
Not sure I'd go that far..0 -
I have no qualms about using Pikeys as bait for potential terrorists/suicide bombers.TGOHF said:
You think those drunken pikeys should have been shot dead on Saturday night ?foxinsoxuk said:
The equivalent to Cambrils would perhaps be Cromer.TGOHF said:
Did you miss the Borough Market incident ?foxinsoxuk said:
Spanish police do seem very effective. Gunning down 5 terrorists in a resort like cambrils before they got anyone was particularly so, as not a high profile area.isam said:
Finnish plod not slouches either. About time our boys in blue got firearms as a routine.
Not sure I'd go that far..0 -
The cards are face up. Limited scope for bluffing.nigel4england said:Not sure this fits the Remain narrative, however some of us have been saying the same for a while now:
http://commentcentral.co.uk/brexit-negotiations-the-davis-poker-face/0 -
To be fair, she did unequivocally condemn the views he expressed - in no uncertain terms - without directly condemning the President of the United States - which is quite proper. Only the terminally dense could not spot what she was doing. It's one thing for Corbyn to condemn Trump - it's quite another for the PM.Richard_Nabavi said:
She did condemn him, in no uncertain terms.619 said:Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.
0 -
Manchester and London Bridge happened pre-election. Didn't help herCopperSulphate said:
It could be related to the rising threat of Islam to the UK and Europe.SandyRentool said:
I'd be surprised if Argentina invades the Falklands this side of the next General Election.freetochoose said:
Something will happen before long that will give her the opportunity to re-assert herself. Whether or not she's up to it remains to be seen.AlastairMeeks said:What is it that Theresa May is going to say or do that will change people's opinions of her again? It's hard to imagine in practice.
I doubt it personally.
Where else might she start a war?0 -
Venezuela. Now that would put Corbyn in a seriously awkward position and would cause a Syria-style split in the PLP (though most foreign interventions would do the latter anyway).SandyRentool said:
I'd be surprised if Argentina invades the Falklands this side of the next General Election.freetochoose said:
Something will happen before long that will give her the opportunity to re-assert herself. Whether or not she's up to it remains to be seen.AlastairMeeks said:What is it that Theresa May is going to say or do that will change people's opinions of her again? It's hard to imagine in practice.
I doubt it personally.
Where else might she start a war?0 -
Actually both BMG and Survation and ICM have given the Tories 42% in post election polls according to the chart above ie the same as the UK share they got at the general election and only 1% below their GB score. I am also not sure the local election results were as 'superb' as OGH suggests given the Tories got 37%, 6% below the 43% they actually got at the general election.
May's big mistake was the dementia tax, the Tories will go into the next general election in 2019/20 having dumped that and under a new leader, probably Davis, Boris or JRM.0 -
0
-
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.0 -
The terrorism could get a lot worse in the next few years though and require some sort of major policy response.619 said:
Manchester and London Bridge happened pre-election. Didn't help herCopperSulphate said:
It could be related to the rising threat of Islam to the UK and Europe.SandyRentool said:
I'd be surprised if Argentina invades the Falklands this side of the next General Election.freetochoose said:
Something will happen before long that will give her the opportunity to re-assert herself. Whether or not she's up to it remains to be seen.AlastairMeeks said:What is it that Theresa May is going to say or do that will change people's opinions of her again? It's hard to imagine in practice.
I doubt it personally.
Where else might she start a war?
Whether she will be up to the job is another matter though.0 -
If she is a loser what does that make Major 1997, Hague 2001, Howard 2005 and Cameron 2010 all of whom won fewer seats than she did? Only Cameron 2015 and Major 1992 have won more seats as Tory leader than May didTheScreamingEagles said:She's a loser, to quote a message aimed at another Tory PM..
You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go.0 -
Doesn't that line of thought require that she win such a conflict ?SandyRentool said:
I'd be surprised if Argentina invades the Falklands this side of the next General Election.freetochoose said:
Something will happen before long that will give her the opportunity to re-assert herself. Whether or not she's up to it remains to be seen.AlastairMeeks said:What is it that Theresa May is going to say or do that will change people's opinions of her again? It's hard to imagine in practice.
I doubt it personally.
Where else might she start a war?
On current form, that's something of an heroic assumption.0 -
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.0 -
There was virtually no detailed scrutiny of Labour's economic policies for instance. I think the point is that many people voted on the assumption that Corbyn and Labour had no chance of forming a government and that won't apply next time. What impact that will have is impossible to say as there is clearly both a lot of volatility (big changes during the campaign) and Brexit looming. It could be a case of "easy come easy" go for Corbyn's increase of the Labour vote. Labour will continue to have an energised membership but with what long term impact on voting and turn out? If you add in to the mix the potential for damaging splits in both Labour and Tory parties then things are even less easy to predict than ever!619 said:
The sun was basically calling him a terrorist in the lead up to the election and making him out to be a total idiot.CopperSulphate said:
Maybe Corbyn being actually scrutinised properly as now people expect him to win the next election. The last one was all about May and Tory cock-ups.AlastairMeeks said:What is it that Theresa May is going to say or do that will change people's opinions of her again? It's hard to imagine in practice.
I don't buy this 'Corbyn was given an easy time' argument I keep seeing0 -
The slight problem with that analysis is that Barnier isn't playing poker. Davis isn't a good player if he thinks Barnier is playing poor poker when he's actually playing a totally different game.nigel4england said:Not sure this fits the Remain narrative, however some of us have been saying the same for a while now:
http://commentcentral.co.uk/brexit-negotiations-the-davis-poker-face/
PS The game Barnier is playing is Monopoly. He owns three quarters of the properties on the board. All of them have hotels on them.0 -
And how many of those had the luxury of deciding the timing of the election, and choosing the battleground on which it was fought ?HYUFD said:
If she is a loser what does that make Major 1997, Hague 2001, Howard 2005 and Cameron 2010 all of whom won fewer seats than she did? Only Cameron 2015 and Major 1992 have won more seats as Tory leader than May didTheScreamingEagles said:She's a loser, to quote a message aimed at another Tory PM..
You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go.0 -
All of those made net seat gains at a general election bar Major.HYUFD said:
If she is a loser what does that make Major 1997, Hague 2001, Howard 2005 and Cameron 2010 all of whom won fewer seats than she did? Only Cameron 2015 and Major 1992 have won more seats as Tory leader than May didTheScreamingEagles said:She's a loser, to quote a message aimed at another Tory PM..
You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go.
But for Ruth Davidson Mrs May would have seen the loss of nearly 10% of the parliamentary party.
All about the direction of travel in terms of seats.
Bums on seats is what wins you elections.0 -
Indeed. Anyone who has had the misfortune to bump into them in a betting related capacity would be passing out the ammunition.freetochoose said:
If you'd had dealings with them you'd have little sympathy.TGOHF said:
You think those drunken pikeys should have been shot dead on Saturday night ?foxinsoxuk said:
The equivalent to Cambrils would perhaps be Cromer.TGOHF said:
Did you miss the Borough Market incident ?foxinsoxuk said:
Spanish police do seem very effective. Gunning down 5 terrorists in a resort like cambrils before they got anyone was particularly so, as not a high profile area.isam said:
Finnish plod not slouches either. About time our boys in blue got firearms as a routine.
Not sure I'd go that far..0 -
The new Argentine President is the most reluctant to push the Falklands since Galtieri invaded so that is unlikely and Spain is not going to invade Gibraltar.SandyRentool said:
I'd be surprised if Argentina invades the Falklands this side of the next General Election.freetochoose said:
Something will happen before long that will give her the opportunity to re-assert herself. Whether or not she's up to it remains to be seen.AlastairMeeks said:What is it that Theresa May is going to say or do that will change people's opinions of her again? It's hard to imagine in practice.
I doubt it personally.
Where else might she start a war?0 -
And May won more of them than Major 1997, Hague 2001, Howard 2005 and Cameron 2010...!TheScreamingEagles said:
All of those made net seat gains at a general election bar Major.HYUFD said:
If she is a loser what does that make Major 1997, Hague 2001, Howard 2005 and Cameron 2010 all of whom won fewer seats than she did? Only Cameron 2015 and Major 1992 have won more seats as Tory leader than May didTheScreamingEagles said:She's a loser, to quote a message aimed at another Tory PM..
You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go.
But for Ruth Davidson Mrs May would have seen the loss of nearly 10% of the parliamentary party.
All about the direction of travel in terms of seats.
Bums on seats is what wins you elections.0 -
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.0 -
The answer to that is that she'd have to exercise a piece of leadership so extraordinary that it made people realise they'd been wrong about her during the campaign.AlastairMeeks said:What is it that Theresa May is going to say or do that will change people's opinions of her again? It's hard to imagine in practice.
0 -
But for winning some of the seats she would have won less seats and lost. Surely this applies to any election winner in a close contest?TheScreamingEagles said:
All of those made net seat gains at a general election bar Major.HYUFD said:
If she is a loser what does that make Major 1997, Hague 2001, Howard 2005 and Cameron 2010 all of whom won fewer seats than she did? Only Cameron 2015 and Major 1992 have won more seats as Tory leader than May didTheScreamingEagles said:She's a loser, to quote a message aimed at another Tory PM..
You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go.
But for Ruth Davidson Mrs May would have seen the loss of nearly 10% of the parliamentary party.
All about the direction of travel in terms of seats.
Bums on seats is what wins you elections.
It's easier to win seats when you start off with fewer and when your party isn't starting to look tired after 7 years in government.0 -
What an excellent idea, if only there was a union of countries across Europe co-operating on product standards to smooth trade. It would solve the Irish border too...Scott_P said:0 -
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.0 -
0
-
It is, isn't it. If it's compliant today it'll still be compliant after we have Left.foxinsoxuk said:
What an excellent ideaScott_P said:
0 -
That is the paradox. The best Brexit is no Brexit.williamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.
Still, think of all that cheap Australian iron ore that we could import if we were free of EU shackles.0 -
Dave managed it but two years ago.CopperSulphate said:
But for winning some of the seats she would have won less seats and lost. Surely this applies to any election winner in a close contest?TheScreamingEagles said:
All of those made net seat gains at a general election bar Major.HYUFD said:
If she is a loser what does that make Major 1997, Hague 2001, Howard 2005 and Cameron 2010 all of whom won fewer seats than she did? Only Cameron 2015 and Major 1992 have won more seats as Tory leader than May didTheScreamingEagles said:She's a loser, to quote a message aimed at another Tory PM..
You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go.
But for Ruth Davidson Mrs May would have seen the loss of nearly 10% of the parliamentary party.
All about the direction of travel in terms of seats.
Bums on seats is what wins you elections.
It's easier to win seats when you start off with fewer and when your party isn't starting to look tired after 7 years in government.0 -
Too late...foxinsoxuk said:
That is the paradox. The best Brexit is no Brexit.williamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.0 -
Why on earth would you be betting with them?midwinter said:
Indeed. Anyone who has had the misfortune to bump into them in a betting related capacity would be passing out the ammunition.freetochoose said:
If you'd had dealings with them you'd have little sympathy.TGOHF said:
You think those drunken pikeys should have been shot dead on Saturday night ?foxinsoxuk said:
The equivalent to Cambrils would perhaps be Cromer.TGOHF said:
Did you miss the Borough Market incident ?foxinsoxuk said:
Spanish police do seem very effective. Gunning down 5 terrorists in a resort like cambrils before they got anyone was particularly so, as not a high profile area.isam said:
Finnish plod not slouches either. About time our boys in blue got firearms as a routine.
Not sure I'd go that far..0 -
Actually, you're nearly right. It is almost a paradox: our politicians have, over the last 25 years, and totally without our consent, worked us into a position that was in itself unsustainable but where any change would be damaging in the short term, the long term or both. Any chess player would recognise this as zugzwang.foxinsoxuk said:
That is the paradox. The best Brexit is no Brexit.williamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.
Still, think of all that cheap Australian iron ore that we could import if we were free of EU shackles.
The obvious thing to do, of course, is take the short term hit.0 -
In that situation a less than vain PM than May would not have called an election three years early. GE2017 was a TMay vanity project which went plop.CopperSulphate said:
But for winning some of the seats she would have won less seats and lost. Surely this applies to any election winner in a close contest?TheScreamingEagles said:
All of those made net seat gains at a general election bar Major.HYUFD said:
If she is a loser what does that make Major 1997, Hague 2001, Howard 2005 and Cameron 2010 all of whom won fewer seats than she did? Only Cameron 2015 and Major 1992 have won more seats as Tory leader than May didTheScreamingEagles said:She's a loser, to quote a message aimed at another Tory PM..
You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go.
But for Ruth Davidson Mrs May would have seen the loss of nearly 10% of the parliamentary party.
All about the direction of travel in terms of seats.
Bums on seats is what wins you elections.
It's easier to win seats when you start off with fewer and when your party isn't starting to look tired after 7 years in government.0 -
Choosing the election date makes virtually no difference and as Hague discovered in 2001 with his 'Save the Pound campaign no leader can pre determine the ground on which an election is foughtNigelb said:
And how many of those had the luxury of deciding the timing of the election, and choosing the battleground on which it was fought ?HYUFD said:
If she is a loser what does that make Major 1997, Hague 2001, Howard 2005 and Cameron 2010 all of whom won fewer seats than she did? Only Cameron 2015 and Major 1992 have won more seats as Tory leader than May didTheScreamingEagles said:She's a loser, to quote a message aimed at another Tory PM..
You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go.0 -
Set your time machine for 1975 - they had that back then - now its a one way ticket to a federal superstate with its own army.foxinsoxuk said:
What an excellent idea, if only there was a union of countries across Europe co-operating on product standards to smooth trade. It would solve the Irish border too...Scott_P said:
0 -
This is a woman who cannot interact with people.Casino_Royale said:
The answer to that is that she'd have to exercise a piece of leadership so extraordinary that it made people realise they'd been wrong about her during the campaign.AlastairMeeks said:What is it that Theresa May is going to say or do that will change people's opinions of her again? It's hard to imagine in practice.
0 -
I agree.ThreeQuidder said:
Too late...foxinsoxuk said:
That is the paradox. The best Brexit is no Brexit.williamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.
The car crash unprepared Brexit is on the cards for March 2019, but it looks increasingly certain that we will be looking to rejoin (with our tail between our legs) fairly shortly afterwards.
I expect we will be full members again before I retire in 15 years.0 -
No it is absolute seat numbers which matters otherwise you end up with the absurd argument that Hague and Howard did better in 2001 and 2005 when they lost the general election than Major did in 1992 when he won the general electionTheScreamingEagles said:
All of those made net seat gains at a general election bar Major.HYUFD said:
If she is a loser what does that make Major 1997, Hague 2001, Howard 2005 and Cameron 2010 all of whom won fewer seats than she did? Only Cameron 2015 and Major 1992 have won more seats as Tory leader than May didTheScreamingEagles said:She's a loser, to quote a message aimed at another Tory PM..
You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go.
But for Ruth Davidson Mrs May would have seen the loss of nearly 10% of the parliamentary party.
All about the direction of travel in terms of seats.
Bums on seats is what wins you elections.0 -
You still don't understand why she called the election, do you?MikeSmithson said:
In that situation a less than vain PM than May would not have called an election three years early. GE2017 was a TMay vanity project which went plop.CopperSulphate said:
But for winning some of the seats she would have won less seats and lost. Surely this applies to any election winner in a close contest?TheScreamingEagles said:
All of those made net seat gains at a general election bar Major.HYUFD said:
If she is a loser what does that make Major 1997, Hague 2001, Howard 2005 and Cameron 2010 all of whom won fewer seats than she did? Only Cameron 2015 and Major 1992 have won more seats as Tory leader than May didTheScreamingEagles said:She's a loser, to quote a message aimed at another Tory PM..
You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go.
But for Ruth Davidson Mrs May would have seen the loss of nearly 10% of the parliamentary party.
All about the direction of travel in terms of seats.
Bums on seats is what wins you elections.
It's easier to win seats when you start off with fewer and when your party isn't starting to look tired after 7 years in government.0 -
It baffles me.MikeSmithson said:
This is a woman who cannot interact with people.Casino_Royale said:
The answer to that is that she'd have to exercise a piece of leadership so extraordinary that it made people realise they'd been wrong about her during the campaign.AlastairMeeks said:What is it that Theresa May is going to say or do that will change people's opinions of her again? It's hard to imagine in practice.
I should have listened to my gut instinct following her total failure to answer my question in 2002.
I wanted to believe I was wrong, so I did.0 -
For most Leavers reducing immigration is what will make a success of Brexitwilliamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.0 -
The single market didn't come in until Mrs Thatcher pushed it through in the late Eighties.TGOHF said:
Set your time machine for 1975 - they had that back then - now its a one way ticket to a federal superstate with its own army.foxinsoxuk said:
What an excellent idea, if only there was a union of countries across Europe co-operating on product standards to smooth trade. It would solve the Irish border too...Scott_P said:0 -
We have these things called elections in this country. You may remember a particularly crushing verdict of the people in which the following matter was at stake. You are a democrat, aren't you?ThreeQuidder said:
Actually, you're nearly right. It is almost a paradox: our politicians have, over the last 25 years, and totally without our consent, worked us into a position that was in itself unsustainable but where any change would be damaging in the short term, the long term or both. Any chess player would recognise this as zugzwang.foxinsoxuk said:
That is the paradox. The best Brexit is no Brexit.williamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.
Still, think of all that cheap Australian iron ore that we could import if we were free of EU shackles.
The obvious thing to do, of course, is take the short term hit.
In six weeks time, the British Prime Minister, myself or Mr Blair, will go to Amsterdam to negotiate a treaty and what’s decided there will determine whether we go down the route to a federal Europe or whether we say, “No, I don’t believe a federal Europe is right for Britain.”
I shall say no. Mr Blair, Mr Blair will say yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLStTx7bIRk0 -
JRM, really? Wasn't that just silly season stuff.HYUFD said:Actually both BMG and Survation and ICM have given the Tories 42% in post election polls according to the chart above ie the same as the UK share they got at the general election and only 1% below their GB score. I am also not sure the local election results were as 'superb' as OGH suggests given the Tories got 37%, 6% below the 43% they actually got at the general election.
May's big mistake was the dementia tax, the Tories will go into the next general election in 2019/20 having dumped that and under a new leader, probably Davis, Boris or JRM.0 -
You should place some money on that series of events down at Ladbrokes - you could probably retire much much earlier if it comes in...foxinsoxuk said:
I agree.ThreeQuidder said:
Too late...foxinsoxuk said:
That is the paradox. The best Brexit is no Brexit.williamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.
The car crash unprepared Brexit is on the cards for March 2019, but it looks increasingly certain that we will be looking to rejoin (with our tail between our legs) fairly shortly afterwards.
I expect we will be full members again before I retire in 15 years.
0 -
Being "full members" would not be "again" as we never have been. This is why the status quo ante 2016 was unsustainable.foxinsoxuk said:
I agree.ThreeQuidder said:
Too late...foxinsoxuk said:
That is the paradox. The best Brexit is no Brexit.williamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.
The car crash unprepared Brexit is on the cards for March 2019, but it looks increasingly certain that we will be looking to rejoin (with our tail between our legs) fairly shortly afterwards.
I expect we will be full members again before I retire in 15 years.0 -
Yet you want another referendum to reverse Brexit ? Lol.williamglenn said:
We have these things called elections in this country. You may remember a particularly crushing verdict of the people in which the following matter was at stake. You are a democrat, aren't you?ThreeQuidder said:
Actually, you're nearly right. It is almost a paradox: our politicians have, over the last 25 years, and totally without our consent, worked us into a position that was in itself unsustainable but where any change would be damaging in the short term, the long term or both. Any chess player would recognise this as zugzwang.foxinsoxuk said:
That is the paradox. The best Brexit is no Brexit.williamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.
Still, think of all that cheap Australian iron ore that we could import if we were free of EU shackles.
The obvious thing to do, of course, is take the short term hit.0 -
I suspect that much of the immigration Leavers find so offensive comes from outside the EU.HYUFD said:
For most Leavers reducing immigration is what will make a success of Brexitwilliamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.0 -
In what sense were we not "full members" before the Euro?ThreeQuidder said:
Being "full members" would not be "again" as we never have been. This is why the status quo ante 2016 was unsustainable.foxinsoxuk said:
I agree.ThreeQuidder said:
Too late...foxinsoxuk said:
That is the paradox. The best Brexit is no Brexit.williamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.
The car crash unprepared Brexit is on the cards for March 2019, but it looks increasingly certain that we will be looking to rejoin (with our tail between our legs) fairly shortly afterwards.
I expect we will be full members again before I retire in 15 years.0 -
Equivalent isn't the same as compliant. It's compliant with EU regulations if the EU says so and they keep that discretion to themselves, as will Britain post-Brexit. That's why there's a £500 000 certification cost per product for motor vehicles, according to the article.ThreeQuidder said:
It is, isn't it. If it's compliant today it'll still be compliant after we have Left.foxinsoxuk said:
What an excellent ideaScott_P said:0 -
No, Brexit will be crushed by its own weight whether we have a second referendum to rubber-stamp the fact or not.TGOHF said:
Yet you want another referendum to reverse Brexit ? Lol.williamglenn said:
We have these things called elections in this country. You may remember a particularly crushing verdict of the people in which the following matter was at stake. You are a democrat, aren't you?ThreeQuidder said:
Actually, you're nearly right. It is almost a paradox: our politicians have, over the last 25 years, and totally without our consent, worked us into a position that was in itself unsustainable but where any change would be damaging in the short term, the long term or both. Any chess player would recognise this as zugzwang.foxinsoxuk said:
That is the paradox. The best Brexit is no Brexit.williamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.
Still, think of all that cheap Australian iron ore that we could import if we were free of EU shackles.
The obvious thing to do, of course, is take the short term hit.0 -
It really wont.williamglenn said:
No, Brexit will be crushed by its own weight whether we have a second referendum to rubber-stamp the fact or not.TGOHF said:
Yet you want another referendum to reverse Brexit ? Lol.williamglenn said:
We have these things called elections in this country. You may remember a particularly crushing verdict of the people in which the following matter was at stake. You are a democrat, aren't you?ThreeQuidder said:
Actually, you're nearly right. It is almost a paradox: our politicians have, over the last 25 years, and totally without our consent, worked us into a position that was in itself unsustainable but where any change would be damaging in the short term, the long term or both. Any chess player would recognise this as zugzwang.foxinsoxuk said:
That is the paradox. The best Brexit is no Brexit.williamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.
Still, think of all that cheap Australian iron ore that we could import if we were free of EU shackles.
The obvious thing to do, of course, is take the short term hit.
0 -
Very true, and we hold 10 billion of them.AlastairMeeks said:
The cards are face up. Limited scope for bluffing.nigel4england said:Not sure this fits the Remain narrative, however some of us have been saying the same for a while now:
http://commentcentral.co.uk/brexit-negotiations-the-davis-poker-face/0 -
I don't understand what he's talking about, anyway. There was no consent for Maastricht and no consent for Lisbon.TGOHF said:
Yet you want another referendum to reverse Brexit ? Lol.williamglenn said:
We have these things called elections in this country. You may remember a particularly crushing verdict of the people in which the following matter was at stake. You are a democrat, aren't you?ThreeQuidder said:
Actually, you're nearly right. It is almost a paradox: our politicians have, over the last 25 years, and totally without our consent, worked us into a position that was in itself unsustainable but where any change would be damaging in the short term, the long term or both. Any chess player would recognise this as zugzwang.foxinsoxuk said:
That is the paradox. The best Brexit is no Brexit.williamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.
Still, think of all that cheap Australian iron ore that we could import if we were free of EU shackles.
The obvious thing to do, of course, is take the short term hit.0 -
The reason it really will is that it's been brought about by people who, like you, have made the mistake of believing their own propaganda. Reality doesn't care what lies you've told yourself about the way the world works and our place in it.TGOHF said:
It really wont.williamglenn said:No, Brexit will be crushed by its own weight whether we have a second referendum to rubber-stamp the fact or not.
0 -
This gets funnier all the timewilliamglenn said:
No, Brexit will be crushed by its own weight whether we have a second referendum to rubber-stamp the fact or not.TGOHF said:
Yet you want another referendum to reverse Brexit ? Lol.williamglenn said:
We have these things called elections in this country. You may remember a particularly crushing verdict of the people in which the following matter was at stake. You are a democrat, aren't you?ThreeQuidder said:
Actually, you're nearly right. It is almost a paradox: our politicians have, over the last 25 years, and totally without our consent, worked us into a position that was in itself unsustainable but where any change would be damaging in the short term, the long term or both. Any chess player would recognise this as zugzwang.foxinsoxuk said:
That is the paradox. The best Brexit is no Brexit.williamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.
Still, think of all that cheap Australian iron ore that we could import if we were free of EU shackles.
The obvious thing to do, of course, is take the short term hit.0 -
Meanwhile, the eclipse is underway here. The partial eclipse has begun over Oregon.
We should have totality here in just over 2 hours. Highways north were gridlocked from dawn today with folks trying to get into the North georgia mountains, going to places with wonderful names like Hiawassee and Toccoa. If you saw Band of Brothers, Toccoa is where they did their basic training.0 -
Yet VW managed to fool them all?FF43 said:
Equivalent isn't the same as compliant. It's compliant with EU regulations if the EU says so and they keep that discretion to themselves, as will Britain post-Brexit. That's why there's a £500 000 certification cost per product for motor vehicles, according to the article.ThreeQuidder said:
It is, isn't it. If it's compliant today it'll still be compliant after we have Left.foxinsoxuk said:
What an excellent ideaScott_P said:0 -
You can at least control that anyway, EU immigration you had no control over in the EU including those from outside the EU using the EU as a pathway to the UKmidwinter said:
I suspect that much of the immigration Leavers find so offensive comes from outside the EU.HYUFD said:
For most Leavers reducing immigration is what will make a success of Brexitwilliamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.0 -
So Amserdam and Nice were above board in your book? That covers QMV, a common foreign and security policy, criminal and police cooperation, among other things.ThreeQuidder said:
I don't understand what he's talking about, anyway. There was no consent for Maastricht and no consent for Lisbon.TGOHF said:
Yet you want another referendum to reverse Brexit ? Lol.
Is if only when a European treaty coincides with a fag-end government that you cry foul?0 -
If we'd believed the Remainers propaganda we'd have 5 million unemployed and in the middle of a massive recession.williamglenn said:
The reason it really will is that it's been brought about by people who, like you, have made the mistake of believing their own propaganda. Reality doesn't care what lies you've told yourself about the way the world works and our place in it.TGOHF said:
It really wont.williamglenn said:No, Brexit will be crushed by its own weight whether we have a second referendum to rubber-stamp the fact or not.
You make the mistake of underestimating the British people and their drive for innovation and ingenuity. They don't rely on the government to make things a success - they do it themselves.
Whatever happens Britain will thrive and yes maybe there might be the odd blip like a Labour government but you seem to be stuck in a big government, SNP downer on the Uk pit of intransigence from which I doubt you can recover.0 -
Yet you want another referendum to reverse Brexit ? Lol.
No, Brexit will be crushed by its own weight whether we have a second referendum to rubber-stamp the fact or not.
William, do you have a job are you paid by some Remain group to spout your rubbish constantly?0 -
I can promise you virtually nobody voted for Blair in 1997 because they wanted a Federal Europe. Indeed the Referendum Party picked up a few million votes on an anti EU pro referendum ticketwilliamglenn said:
We have these things called elections in this country. You may remember a particularly crushing verdict of the people in which the following matter was at stake. You are a democrat, aren't you?ThreeQuidder said:
Actually, you're nearly right. It is almost a paradox: our politicians have, over the last 25 years, and totally without our consent, worked us into a position that was is as zugzwang.foxinsoxuk said:
That is the paradox. The best Brexit is no Brexit.williamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.
Still, think of all that cheap Australian iron ore that we could import if we were free of EU shackles.
The obvious thing to do, of course, is take the short term hit.
In six weeks time, the British Prime Minister, myself or Mr Blair, ritain.”
I shall say no. Mr Blair, Mr Blair will say yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLStTx7bIRk0 -
Big government? Brexit is the biggest instance of state intervention in the economy and growth in the tentacles of government that we've seen for decades. As Adam Posen said, "Don't kid yourself that this will make Britain like Hong Kong was in the 70s. This will make Britain like Britain was in the 70s."TGOHF said:Whatever happens Britain will thrive and yes maybe there might be the odd blip like a Labour government but you seem to be stuck in a big government, SNP downer on the Uk cycle of intransigence from which I doubt you can recover.
0 -
We were already on the slippery slope to a federal Europe after Maastricht, of course.HYUFD said:
I can promise you virtually nobody voted for Blair in 1997 because they wanted a Federal Europe. Indeed the Referendum Party picked up a few million votes on an anti EU pro referendum ticketwilliamglenn said:
We have these things called elections in this country. You may remember a particularly crushing verdict of the people in which the following matter was at stake. You are a democrat, aren't you?ThreeQuidder said:
Actually, you're nearly right. It is almost a paradox: our politicians have, over the last 25 years, and totally without our consent, worked us into a position that was is as zugzwang.foxinsoxuk said:
That is the paradox. The best Brexit is no Brexit.williamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.
Still, think of all that cheap Australian iron ore that we could import if we were free of EU shackles.
The obvious thing to do, of course, is take the short term hit.
In six weeks time, the British Prime Minister, myself or Mr Blair, ritain.”
I shall say no. Mr Blair, Mr Blair will say yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLStTx7bIRk0 -
Yet many Remainers were complaining May had 'no mandate for hard Brexit' from the referendum and demanding a general election to clarify. You cannot have it both waysMikeSmithson said:
In that situation a less than vain PM than May would not have called an election three years early. GE2017 was a TMay vanity project which went plop.CopperSulphate said:
But for winning some of the seats she would have won less seats and lost. Surely this applies to any election winner in a close contest?TheScreamingEagles said:
All of those made net seat gains at a general election bar Major.HYUFD said:
If she is a loser what does that make Major 1997, Hague 2001, Howard 2005 and Cameron 2010 all of whom won fewer seats than she did? Only Cameron 2015 and Major 1992 have won more seats as Tory leader than May didTheScreamingEagles said:She's a loser, to quote a message aimed at another Tory PM..
You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go.
But for Ruth Davidson Mrs May would have seen the loss of nearly 10% of the parliamentary party.
All about the direction of travel in terms of seats.
Bums on seats is what wins you elections.
It's easier to win seats when you start off with fewer and when your party isn't starting to look tired after 7 years in government.0 -
811,849 to be precise.HYUFD said:Indeed the Referendum Party picked up a few million votes on an anti EU pro referendum ticket
0 -
He has an outside chance stilllogical_song said:
JRM, really? Wasn't that just silly season stuff.HYUFD said:Actually both BMG and Survation and ICM have given the Tories 42% in post election polls according to the chart above ie the same as the UK share they got at the general election and only 1% below their GB score. I am also not sure the local election results were as 'superb' as OGH suggests given the Tories got 37%, 6% below the 43% they actually got at the general election.
May's big mistake was the dementia tax, the Tories will go into the next general election in 2019/20 having dumped that and under a new leader, probably Davis, Boris or JRM.0 -
One of which was mine.williamglenn said:
811,849 to be precise.HYUFD said:Indeed the Referendum Party picked up a few million votes on an anti EU pro referendum ticket
0 -
You've jumped the shark now ... perhaps a cup of (European) tea and a lie down may help.williamglenn said:
Big government? Brexit is the biggest instance of state intervention in the economy and growth in the tentacles of government that we've seen for decades.TGOHF said:Whatever happens Britain will thrive and yes maybe there might be the odd blip like a Labour government but you seem to be stuck in a big government, SNP downer on the Uk cycle of intransigence from which I doubt you can recover.
0 -
Yet thanks to Major' s opt outs and the fact we, Sweden and Denmark were outside the Euro we were not likely to be a part of itThreeQuidder said:
We were already on the slippery slope to a federal Europe after Maastricht, of course.HYUFD said:
I can promise you virtually nobody voted for Blair in 1997 because they wanted a Federal Europe. Indeed the Referendum Party picked up a few million votes on an anti EU pro referendum ticketwilliamglenn said:
We have these things called elections in this country. You may remember a particularly crushing verdict of the people in which the following matter was at stake. You are a democrat, aren't you?ThreeQuidder said:
Actually, you're nearly right. It is almost a paradox: our politicians have, over the last 25 years, and totally without our consent, worked us into a position that was is as zugzwang.foxinsoxuk said:
That is the paradox. The best Brexit is no Brexit.williamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.
Still, think of all that cheap Australian iron ore that we could import if we were free of EU shackles.
The obvious thing to do, of course, is take the short term hit.
In six weeks time, the British Prime Minister, myself or Mr Blair, ritain.”
I shall say no. Mr Blair, Mr Blair will say yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLStTx7bIRk0 -
The superiority of view that you constantly profess is very sad - I voted remain but accept we have to leave otherwise the democratic process is totally compromised.williamglenn said:
The reason it really will is that it's been brought about by people who, like you, have made the mistake of believing their own propaganda. Reality doesn't care what lies you've told yourself about the way the world works and our place in it.TGOHF said:
It really wont.williamglenn said:No, Brexit will be crushed by its own weight whether we have a second referendum to rubber-stamp the fact or not.
Indeed, it is more than likely the majority will want out as this process comes towards it end in March 2019 unless the EU accept the position and act reasonably
0 -
James Goldsmith would have been appalled by what Euroscepticism has become. He was primarily against globalisation and saw the EU as a dangerous advocate of global free trade.nigel4england said:
One of which was mine.williamglenn said:
811,849 to be precise.HYUFD said:Indeed the Referendum Party picked up a few million votes on an anti EU pro referendum ticket
This heady mix of ethno-nationalism and delusions about a global Britain were not at all what he stood for.0 -
Now you can read the minds of the deceased - amazing. Not something us thick, peasant leavers could ever aspire to.williamglenn said:
James Goldsmith would have been appallednigel4england said:
One of which was mine.williamglenn said:
811,849 to be precise.HYUFD said:Indeed the Referendum Party picked up a few million votes on an anti EU pro referendum ticket
0 -
It's all been bought by the Chinese... All we would get would be the rust....foxinsoxuk said:
That is the paradox. The best Brexit is no Brexit.williamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.
Still, think of all that cheap Australian iron ore that we could import if we were free of EU shackles.0 -
Well they haven't banned me from opening an account with his family bookmakers!williamglenn said:
James Goldsmith would have been appalled by what Euroscepticism has become. He was primarily against globalisation and saw the EU as a dangerous advocate of global free trade.nigel4england said:
One of which was mine.williamglenn said:
811,849 to be precise.HYUFD said:Indeed the Referendum Party picked up a few million votes on an anti EU pro referendum ticket
This heady mix of ethno-nationalism and delusions about a global Britain were not at all what he stood for.0 -
I don't need to read his mind. He set out his views very clearly in books and debates, including sparring with Patrick Minford on this very topic.TGOHF said:
Now you can read the minds of the deceased - amazing. Not something us thick, peasant leavers could ever aspire to.williamglenn said:
James Goldsmith would have been appallednigel4england said:
One of which was mine.williamglenn said:
811,849 to be precise.HYUFD said:Indeed the Referendum Party picked up a few million votes on an anti EU pro referendum ticket
0 -
You are ignoring the immigration issue, the referendum was immigration control and sovereignty v the economy and immigration control narrowly wonfoxinsoxuk said:
That is the paradox. The best Brexit is no Brexit.williamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.
Still, think of all that cheap Australian iron ore that we could import if we were free of EU shackles.0 -
Awesome pictures coming through, how close are you to the line of totality?Tim_B said:Meanwhile, the eclipse is underway here. The partial eclipse has begun over Oregon.
We should have totality here in just over 2 hours. Highways north were gridlocked from dawn today with folks trying to get into the North georgia mountains, going to places with wonderful names like Hiawassee and Toccoa. If you saw Band of Brothers, Toccoa is where they did their basic training.0 -
My daughter is in Blue Ridge - 100%. According to NASA I apparently will have a 98.67% eclipse. 10-15 miles north will get totality. How will I tell a 1.33% difference between me and totality?Sandpit said:
Awesome pictures coming through, how close are you to the line of totality?Tim_B said:Meanwhile, the eclipse is underway here. The partial eclipse has begun over Oregon.
We should have totality here in just over 2 hours. Highways north were gridlocked from dawn today with folks trying to get into the North georgia mountains, going to places with wonderful names like Hiawassee and Toccoa. If you saw Band of Brothers, Toccoa is where they did their basic training.0 -
Very lucky, you’re right in the path of it. 98.67% you’ll see a slit of light to one side of the moon as it is nearly but not quite covered by the moon. Something like this:Tim_B said:
My daughter is in Blue Ridge - 100%. According to NASA I apparently will have a 98.67% eclipse. 10-15 miles north will get totality. How will I tell a 1.33% difference between me and totality?Sandpit said:
Awesome pictures coming through, how close are you to the line of totality?Tim_B said:Meanwhile, the eclipse is underway here. The partial eclipse has begun over Oregon.
We should have totality here in just over 2 hours. Highways north were gridlocked from dawn today with folks trying to get into the North georgia mountains, going to places with wonderful names like Hiawassee and Toccoa. If you saw Band of Brothers, Toccoa is where they did their basic training.
Edit: NASA live stream now up and running:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=9eLja589E7I0 -
Fun fact - the moon's shadow is moving across the US at an average speed of 1850 mph.Sandpit said:
Awesome pictures coming through, how close are you to the line of totality?Tim_B said:Meanwhile, the eclipse is underway here. The partial eclipse has begun over Oregon.
We should have totality here in just over 2 hours. Highways north were gridlocked from dawn today with folks trying to get into the North georgia mountains, going to places with wonderful names like Hiawassee and Toccoa. If you saw Band of Brothers, Toccoa is where they did their basic training.0 -
The sky is completely clear - not a cloud in the sky. Hotter than hell, but a beautiful day.Sandpit said:
Very lucky, you’re right in the path of it. 98.67% you’ll see a slit of light to one side of the moon as it is nearly but not quite covered by the moon. Something like this:Tim_B said:
My daughter is in Blue Ridge - 100%. According to NASA I apparently will have a 98.67% eclipse. 10-15 miles north will get totality. How will I tell a 1.33% difference between me and totality?Sandpit said:
Awesome pictures coming through, how close are you to the line of totality?Tim_B said:Meanwhile, the eclipse is underway here. The partial eclipse has begun over Oregon.
We should have totality here in just over 2 hours. Highways north were gridlocked from dawn today with folks trying to get into the North georgia mountains, going to places with wonderful names like Hiawassee and Toccoa. If you saw Band of Brothers, Toccoa is where they did their basic training.0 -
Awesome! Take lots of photosTim_B said:
The sky is completely clear - not a cloud in the sky. Hotter than hell, but a beautiful day.Sandpit said:
Very lucky, you’re right in the path of it. 98.67% you’ll see a slit of light to one side of the moon as it is nearly but not quite covered by the moon. Something like this:Tim_B said:
My daughter is in Blue Ridge - 100%. According to NASA I apparently will have a 98.67% eclipse. 10-15 miles north will get totality. How will I tell a 1.33% difference between me and totality?Sandpit said:
Awesome pictures coming through, how close are you to the line of totality?Tim_B said:Meanwhile, the eclipse is underway here. The partial eclipse has begun over Oregon.
We should have totality here in just over 2 hours. Highways north were gridlocked from dawn today with folks trying to get into the North georgia mountains, going to places with wonderful names like Hiawassee and Toccoa. If you saw Band of Brothers, Toccoa is where they did their basic training.
0 -
There is a cruise ship offshore of Charleston SC full of eclipse watchers. The added attraction -honest - is that Bonnie Tyler is on board and will sing "Total eclipse of the heart" during totality.Sandpit said:
Awesome! Take lots of photosTim_B said:
The sky is completely clear - not a cloud in the sky. Hotter than hell, but a beautiful day.Sandpit said:
Very lucky, you’re right in the path of it. 98.67% you’ll see a slit of light to one side of the moon as it is nearly but not quite covered by the moon. Something like this:Tim_B said:
My daughter is in Blue Ridge - 100%. According to NASA I apparently will have a 98.67% eclipse. 10-15 miles north will get totality. How will I tell a 1.33% difference between me and totality?Sandpit said:
Awesome pictures coming through, how close are you to the line of totality?Tim_B said:Meanwhile, the eclipse is underway here. The partial eclipse has begun over Oregon.
We should have totality here in just over 2 hours. Highways north were gridlocked from dawn today with folks trying to get into the North georgia mountains, going to places with wonderful names like Hiawassee and Toccoa. If you saw Band of Brothers, Toccoa is where they did their basic training.0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXKIECZpvqgTim_B said:
There is a cruise ship offshore of Charleston SC full of eclipse watchers. The added attraction -honest - is that Bonnie Tyler is on board and will sing "Total eclipse of the heart" during totality.Sandpit said:
Awesome! Take lots of photosTim_B said:
The sky is completely clear - not a cloud in the sky. Hotter than hell, but a beautiful day.Sandpit said:
Very lucky, you’re right in the path of it. 98.67% you’ll see a slit of light to one side of the moon as it is nearly but not quite covered by the moon. Something like this:Tim_B said:
My daughter is in Blue Ridge - 100%. According to NASA I apparently will have a 98.67% eclipse. 10-15 miles north will get totality. How will I tell a 1.33% difference between me and totality?Sandpit said:
Awesome pictures coming through, how close are you to the line of totality?Tim_B said:Meanwhile, the eclipse is underway here. The partial eclipse has begun over Oregon.
We should have totality here in just over 2 hours. Highways north were gridlocked from dawn today with folks trying to get into the North georgia mountains, going to places with wonderful names like Hiawassee and Toccoa. If you saw Band of Brothers, Toccoa is where they did their basic training.0 -
I heard about that one, well done to the entertainment booker!Tim_B said:
There is a cruise ship offshore of Charleston SC full of eclipse watchers. The added attraction -honest - is that Bonnie Tyler is on board and will sing "Total eclipse of the heart" during totality.Sandpit said:
Awesome! Take lots of photosTim_B said:
The sky is completely clear - not a cloud in the sky. Hotter than hell, but a beautiful day.Sandpit said:
Very lucky, you’re right in the path of it. 98.67% you’ll see a slit of light to one side of the moon as it is nearly but not quite covered by the moon. Something like this:Tim_B said:
My daughter is in Blue Ridge - 100%. According to NASA I apparently will have a 98.67% eclipse. 10-15 miles north will get totality. How will I tell a 1.33% difference between me and totality?Sandpit said:
Awesome pictures coming through, how close are you to the line of totality?Tim_B said:Meanwhile, the eclipse is underway here. The partial eclipse has begun over Oregon.
We should have totality here in just over 2 hours. Highways north were gridlocked from dawn today with folks trying to get into the North georgia mountains, going to places with wonderful names like Hiawassee and Toccoa. If you saw Band of Brothers, Toccoa is where they did their basic training.
Obviously I’m on the other side of the world for this one (it’s dark already), but I remember vividly the total eclipse in the UK in August 1999. Unlikely we’ll ever see one again.0 -
I was on the beach at Portreath in Cornwall for that, something I will never forget.Sandpit said:
I heard about that one, well done to the entertainment booker!Tim_B said:
There is a cruise ship offshore of Charleston SC full of eclipse watchers. The added attraction -honest - is that Bonnie Tyler is on board and will sing "Total eclipse of the heart" during totality.Sandpit said:
Awesome! Take lots of photosTim_B said:
The sky is completely clear - not a cloud in the sky. Hotter than hell, but a beautiful day.Sandpit said:
Very lucky, you’re right in the path of it. 98.67% you’ll see a slit of light to one side of the moon as it is nearly but not quite covered by the moon. Something like this:Tim_B said:
My daughter is in Blue Ridge - 100%. According to NASA I apparently will have a 98.67% eclipse. 10-15 miles north will get totality. How will I tell a 1.33% difference between me and totality?Sandpit said:
Awesome pictures coming through, how close are you to the line of totality?Tim_B said:Meanwhile, the eclipse is underway here. The partial eclipse has begun over Oregon.
We should have totality here in just over 2 hours. Highways north were gridlocked from dawn today with folks trying to get into the North georgia mountains, going to places with wonderful names like Hiawassee and Toccoa. If you saw Band of Brothers, Toccoa is where they did their basic training.
Obviously I’m on the other side of the world for this one (it’s dark already), but I remember vividly the total eclipse the in the UK in August 1999. Unlikely we’ll ever see one again.0 -
The referendum was about the NHS based on the big lie. The official campaign barely mentioned immigration which, of course, is central to a healthy economy.HYUFD said:
You are ignoring the immigration issue, the referendum was immigration control and sovereignty v the economy and immigration control narrowly wonfoxinsoxuk said:
That is the paradox. The best Brexit is no Brexit.williamglenn said:
It's ironic that most of the things we need for Brexit to be a success can be best delivered by remaining in the EU.HYUFD said:
Exactly, we need favourable trafing terms with the US (even under Trump) more than the US needs favourable trading terms with usCopperSulphate said:
Exactly. Why the flip is virtue signaling to achieve nothing in particular more important than getting possibly the most important trade deal in our history?HYUFD said:
The President of our largest destination for exports who we need a trade deal or at least favourable trading terms with as soon as Brexit is completed, not a good idea to attack him619 said:
Maybe, but she needs to crack on really. Her not condemning Trump was a mis-step: that's a free hit on an unpopular president saying stupid things.Richard_Nabavi said:No, she can't turn it round, but she can salvage her reputation and depart with grace, if Brexit can be negotiated without total chaos. How big an 'if' that is remains to be seen.
Although many of her woes are self-inflicted, it's also the case that the media like to knock down those that they have built up. Before the election, she was getting an over-favourable press, and a correction was inevitable. What was surprising was the speed and ferocity of that correction.
Jeremy Corbyn has arguably followed the reverse trajectory, but Labour shouldn't kid themselves that the fundamentals have changed.
Still, think of all that cheap Australian iron ore that we could import if we were free of EU shackles.
.
0 -
It's started here - the moon is starting to block the sun. Everyone has cameras in Clemson SC just up the road so we can see it on TV.
Even The Weather Channel has got tongue in cheek - "local on the 8s" has background music such as "Here comes the sun" by the Beatles or the Walker brothers "Sun aint gonna shine any more" instead of the usual muzak.
Totality in 2 minutes in Madras OR0 -
12 Aug 2026 - total in Spain, 96% in Cornwall.Sandpit said:
I heard about that one, well done to the entertainment booker!Tim_B said:
There is a cruise ship offshore of Charleston SC full of eclipse watchers. The added attraction -honest - is that Bonnie Tyler is on board and will sing "Total eclipse of the heart" during totality.Sandpit said:
Awesome! Take lots of photosTim_B said:
The sky is completely clear - not a cloud in the sky. Hotter than hell, but a beautiful day.Sandpit said:
Very lucky, you’re right in the path of it. 98.67% you’ll see a slit of light to one side of the moon as it is nearly but not quite covered by the moon. Something like this:Tim_B said:
My daughter is in Blue Ridge - 100%. According to NASA I apparently will have a 98.67% eclipse. 10-15 miles north will get totality. How will I tell a 1.33% difference between me and totality?Sandpit said:
Awesome pictures coming through, how close are you to the line of totality?Tim_B said:Meanwhile, the eclipse is underway here. The partial eclipse has begun over Oregon.
We should have totality here in just over 2 hours. Highways north were gridlocked from dawn today with folks trying to get into the North georgia mountains, going to places with wonderful names like Hiawassee and Toccoa. If you saw Band of Brothers, Toccoa is where they did their basic training.
Obviously I’m on the other side of the world for this one (it’s dark already), but I remember vividly the total eclipse the in the UK in August 1999. Unlikely we’ll ever see one again.0 -
The referendum was about the NHS based on the big lie. The official campaign barely mentioned immigration which, of course, is central to a healthy economy.
.
If you really believe that then there is no wonder you lost.0 -
Totality finished in Madras OR. We're about an hour and 10 minutes away from it.0
-
I was listening to a space podcast a while back that gave a story: a man chases eclipses was late getting to a remote area. Knowing he would not get onto the ground in time, he had a word with the airline on his last flight, who delayed the flight by half-an-hour which meant they flew through the eclipse.Ishmael_Z said:
12 Aug 2026 - total in Spain, 96% in Cornwall.Sandpit said:
I heard about that one, well done to the entertainment booker!Tim_B said:
There is a cruise ship offshore of Charleston SC full of eclipse watchers. The added attraction -honest - is that Bonnie Tyler is on board and will sing "Total eclipse of the heart" during totality.Sandpit said:
Awesome! Take lots of photosTim_B said:
The sky is completely clear - not a cloud in the sky. Hotter than hell, but a beautiful day.Sandpit said:
Very lucky, you’re right in the path of it. 98.67% you’ll see a slit of light to one side of the moon as it is nearly but not quite covered by the moon. Something like this:Tim_B said:
My daughter is in Blue Ridge - 100%. According to NASA I apparently will have a 98.67% eclipse. 10-15 miles north will get totality. How will I tell a 1.33% difference between me and totality?Sandpit said:
Awesome pictures coming through, how close are you to the line of totality?Tim_B said:Meanwhile, the eclipse is underway here. The partial eclipse has begun over Oregon.
We should have totality here in just over 2 hours. Highways north were gridlocked from dawn today with folks trying to get into the North georgia mountains, going to places with wonderful names like Hiawassee and Toccoa. If you saw Band of Brothers, Toccoa is where they did their basic training.
Obviously I’m on the other side of the world for this one (it’s dark already), but I remember vividly the total eclipse the in the UK in August 1999. Unlikely we’ll ever see one again.
It's one way of guaranteeing there's no cloud cover!0 -
I'm reminded of an Irish joke from my UK schooldays in the 1960s. The Irish were planning a manned landing on the sun, but because of concerns about the heat on the sun's surface they decided to land at night.JosiasJessop said:
I was listening to a space podcast a while back that gave a story: a man chases eclipses was late getting to a remote area. Knowing he would not get onto the ground in time, he had a word with the airline on his last flight, who delayed the flight by half-an-hour which meant they flew through the eclipse.Ishmael_Z said:
12 Aug 2026 - total in Spain, 96% in Cornwall.Sandpit said:
I heard about that one, well done to the entertainment booker!Tim_B said:
There is a cruise ship offshore of Charleston SC full of eclipse watchers. The added attraction -honest - is that Bonnie Tyler is on board and will sing "Total eclipse of the heart" during totality.Sandpit said:
Awesome! Take lots of photosTim_B said:
The sky is completely clear - not a cloud in the sky. Hotter than hell, but a beautiful day.Sandpit said:
Very lucky, you’re right in the path of it. 98.67% you’ll see a slit of light to one side of the moon as it is nearly but not quite covered by the moon. Something like this:Tim_B said:
My daughter is in Blue Ridge - 100%. According to NASA I apparently will have a 98.67% eclipse. 10-15 miles north will get totality. How will I tell a 1.33% difference between me and totality?Sandpit said:
Awesome pictures coming through, how close are you to the line of totality?Tim_B said:Meanwhile, the eclipse is underway here. The partial eclipse has begun over Oregon.
We should have totality here in just over 2 hours. Highways north were gridlocked from dawn today with folks trying to get into the North georgia mountains, going to places with wonderful names like Hiawassee and Toccoa. If you saw Band of Brothers, Toccoa is where they did their basic training.
Obviously I’m on the other side of the world for this one (it’s dark already), but I remember vividly the total eclipse the in the UK in August 1999. Unlikely we’ll ever see one again.
It's one way of guaranteeing there's no cloud cover!0 -
I was really disappointed about the weather in 1999. As someone said at the time, you could predict the eclipse with absolute accuracy 200 years out, but the weather not 24 hours out.JosiasJessop said:
I was listening to a space podcast a while back that gave a story: a man chases eclipses was late getting to a remote area. Knowing he would not get onto the ground in time, he had a word with the airline on his last flight, who delayed the flight by half-an-hour which meant they flew through the eclipse.Ishmael_Z said:
12 Aug 2026 - total in Spain, 96% in Cornwall.Sandpit said:
I heard about that one, well done to the entertainment booker!Tim_B said:
There is a cruise ship offshore of Charleston SC full of eclipse watchers. The added attraction -honest - is that Bonnie Tyler is on board and will sing "Total eclipse of the heart" during totality.Sandpit said:
Awesome! Take lots of photosTim_B said:
The sky is completely clear - not a cloud in the sky. Hotter than hell, but a beautiful day.Sandpit said:
Very lucky, you’re right in the path of it. 98.67% you’ll see a slit of light to one side of the moon as it is nearly but not quite covered by the moon. Something like this:Tim_B said:
My daughter is in Blue Ridge - 100%. According to NASA I apparently will have a 98.67% eclipse. 10-15 miles north will get totality. How will I tell a 1.33% difference between me and totality?Sandpit said:
Awesome pictures coming through, how close are you to the line of totality?Tim_B said:Meanwhile, the eclipse is underway here. The partial eclipse has begun over Oregon.
We should have totality here in just over 2 hours. Highways north were gridlocked from dawn today with folks trying to get into the North georgia mountains, going to places with wonderful names like Hiawassee and Toccoa. If you saw Band of Brothers, Toccoa is where they did their basic training.
Obviously I’m on the other side of the world for this one (it’s dark already), but I remember vividly the total eclipse the in the UK in August 1999. Unlikely we’ll ever see one again.
It's one way of guaranteeing there's no cloud cover!0 -
And Spain gets another one on 2 Aug 2027!!0
