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SystemSystem Posts: 12,598
edited July 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Something to consider about how amenable the EU27 might be to the UK in the Brexit talks

Ipsos MORI have undertaken some research and they find

Read the full story here


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  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    R.I.P. the 600 dead of Mametz Wood, 101 years ago today
    R.I.P. the 8 British servicemen who died in Afghanistan, 10th July 2009
    DiqawtaH
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Second! Like Labour & SCon.....
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited July 2017
    Turd, like this thread header.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    Hmmmm this is strange. Maybe if we read the first letter of each line it spells 'May is crap"?... :D

    Just kidding, TSE. :p
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    We are also at least fairly realistic about our own impact – with British people pretty close to the global average on their view of Britain.

    That's strange, we're forever being told how deluded we are.......
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    CarlottaVance said:

    We are also at least fairly realistic about our own impact – with British people pretty close to the global average on their view of Britain.

    That's strange, we're forever being told how deluded we are.......

    Yeah, so much for british exceptionalism.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Brexit now resembles a mash-up of ‘Father Ted’
    via The Irish Times
    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/brexit-now-resembles-a-mash-up-of-father-ted-1.3146815

    So there has to be a period after 2019 which yields enough time to negotiate a final settlement. This is where it gets interesting.

    Headbanger Brexiteers will cry foul but so will the EU – unless the transition deal changes absolutely nothing. Freedom of movement, the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice and all the rest must be preserved or the EU will not agree to an open-ended transition.

    That’s a clearly established red line. In this scenario, the UK leaves the EU and then absolutely nothing happens. Nothing changes at all except for the absence of the UK during any EU decision making process. The scriptwriters of Father Ted, or any other comedy show, couldn’t make it up.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Wonder what's driving the very different reactions within the EU - from Italy 62% positive to Spain 29%? Its always tempting to read politics/Brexit into everything, but could it be something else like local coverage of drunk Brits on the Costas in Spain that's dragging us down?

    Its also interesting that while Canada/Australia clearly lead in global perceptions, (net +62, +58) there's a step change to Europe, with Germany leading (+34), then another step down to France (+18), UK (+14), EU (+14).

    I can understand UK 'US poodle' getting a bad rap, but France? Also in what way has Germany been (in recent history) materially different to Canada/Australia?

    Any road up....so much for 'global laughing stock'......
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    https://readyformogg.org/

    My fairly mainstream Conservative uncle on the Isle of Wight has posted this on FB.

    Signs of a real move to make JRM the PM?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    williamglenn said:

    Brexit now resembles a mash-up of ‘Father Ted’
    via The Irish Times
    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/brexit-now-resembles-a-mash-up-of-father-ted-1.3146815

    So there has to be a period after 2019 which yields enough time to negotiate a final settlement. This is where it gets interesting.

    Headbanger Brexiteers will cry foul but so will the EU – unless the transition deal changes absolutely nothing. Freedom of movement, the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice and all the rest must be preserved or the EU will not agree to an open-ended transition.

    That’s a clearly established red line. In this scenario, the UK leaves the EU and then absolutely nothing happens. Nothing changes at all except for the absence of the UK during any EU decision making process. The scriptwriters of Father Ted, or any other comedy show, couldn’t make it up.

    Take back Control?

    Feck! Drink!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    foxinsoxuk said:

    https://readyformogg.org/

    My fairly mainstream Conservative uncle on the Isle of Wight has posted this on FB.

    Signs of a real move to make JRM the PM?

    I think one Oxford Union Librarian as Prime Minister is enough to be going on with....let alone OEs......
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    CarlottaVance said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    https://readyformogg.org/

    My fairly mainstream Conservative uncle on the Isle of Wight has posted this on FB.

    Signs of a real move to make JRM the PM?

    I think one Oxford Union Librarian as Prime Minister is enough to be going on with....let alone OEs......
    I wasn't suggesting it was a good idea, just a betting prospect.

    Though it would add to the gaiety of the nation.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Shoppers would be forced to pay £3 more for a traditional British fry-up if the government fails to secure a trade deal with the EU, piling more pressure on already cash-strapped consumers.

    A typical basket of ingredients for a family breakfast could rise by almost 13% from £23.59 to £26.61 according to a report by KPMG.

    The accountancy firm warned households would face above-inflation price rises for imported breakfast classics such as olive oil, bacon and orange juice if Britain left the EU without a deal and defaulted to the World Trade Organisation’s (WTO) customs rules.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/10/hard-brexit-english-breakfast-hard-luck-fry-up-fans?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Methinks the authors have a tenuous grasp on the cooking of most fry up breakfasts.....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Saintly Seamus seen sinning:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3982901/seamus-milne-mystery-blonde-east-london-hotel/
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    foxinsoxuk said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    https://readyformogg.org/

    My fairly mainstream Conservative uncle on the Isle of Wight has posted this on FB.

    Signs of a real move to make JRM the PM?

    I think one Oxford Union Librarian as Prime Minister is enough to be going on with....let alone OEs......
    Though it would add to the gaiety of the nation.
    I think having him chair the TSC will be quite enough gaiety to be going on with.....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,198
    I expect Gibraltar is part of the reason for the low rating for Spain. Perhaps not surprisingly the UK gets its highest ratings from the Anglosphrre, India, the US, Australia, New Zealand and Canada
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,998
    Do we have the table on how Britain views other countries?

    I have to say, I don't have a high opinion of Canada. They gave us Mark Carney.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    CarlottaVance said:

    Shoppers would be forced to pay £3 more for a traditional British fry-up if the government fails to secure a trade deal with the EU, piling more pressure on already cash-strapped consumers.

    A typical basket of ingredients for a family breakfast could rise by almost 13% from £23.59 to £26.61 according to a report by KPMG.

    The accountancy firm warned households would face above-inflation price rises for imported breakfast classics such as olive oil, bacon and orange juice if Britain left the EU without a deal and defaulted to the World Trade Organisation’s (WTO) customs rules.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/10/hard-brexit-english-breakfast-hard-luck-fry-up-fans?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Methinks the authors have a tenuous grasp on the cooking of most fry up breakfasts.....

    Olive oil smokes and goes acrid when shallow frying, better to use a lighter oil. As for Danish bacon...

    Though under PM JRM the choice would be porridge, kippers or grouse, served by nanny in the nursery.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,182
    foxinsoxuk said:



    Though under PM JRM the choice would be porridge, kippers or grouse, served by nanny in the nursery.

    Suits me. Better than KPMG's dog's Brexit.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    tlg86 said:

    Do we have the table on how Britain views other countries?

    I have to say, I don't have a high opinion of Canada. They gave us Mark Carney.

    Chart 12:

    https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/2017-06/global-advisor-global-influence-2017.pdf
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,082
    tlg86 said:

    Do we have the table on how Britain views other countries?

    I have to say, I don't have a high opinion of Canada. They gave us Mark Carney.

    Carney has done well under testing circumstances.
    Is it because he was a 'Remainer'?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,182
    "Shoppers would be forced to pay £3 more . . ."
    So the concept of freedom of choice is alien to KPMG wonks.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,998
    logical_song said:

    tlg86 said:

    Do we have the table on how Britain views other countries?

    I have to say, I don't have a high opinion of Canada. They gave us Mark Carney.

    Carney has done well under testing circumstances.
    Is it because he was a 'Remainer'?
    He's played his part in creating a housing bubble in this country.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,998
    CarlottaVance said:

    tlg86 said:

    Do we have the table on how Britain views other countries?

    I have to say, I don't have a high opinion of Canada. They gave us Mark Carney.

    Chart 12:

    https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/2017-06/global-advisor-global-influence-2017.pdf
    Thank you.
  • Fat_SteveFat_Steve Posts: 361
    59 % of the people asked think France is a positive influence ? Low information sample.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,182
    logical_song said:

    tlg86 said:

    Do we have the table on how Britain views other countries?

    I have to say, I don't have a high opinion of Canada. They gave us Mark Carney.

    Carney has done well under testing circumstances.
    Is it because he was a 'Remainer'?
    Looks like he may have the casting vote at the next MPC meeting as his chief economist is now a QE sceptic.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Fat_Steve said:

    59 % of the people asked think France is a positive influence ? Low information sample.

    53% score for France by Britain.

    Germany has certainly turned its scores around in the last 70 years.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,182
    Fat_Steve said:

    59 % of the people asked think France is a positive influence ? Low information sample.

    Shannon entropy?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    geoffw said:

    "Shoppers would be forced to pay £3 more . . ."
    So the concept of freedom of choice is alien to KPMG wonks.

    As alien as a fry-up breakfast it would appear....

    "Samantha, what do you think the oiks use for their fry up breakfast?"
    "EVO obs...."
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    foxinsoxuk said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Shoppers would be forced to pay £3 more for a traditional British fry-up if the government fails to secure a trade deal with the EU, piling more pressure on already cash-strapped consumers.

    A typical basket of ingredients for a family breakfast could rise by almost 13% from £23.59 to £26.61 according to a report by KPMG.

    The accountancy firm warned households would face above-inflation price rises for imported breakfast classics such as olive oil, bacon and orange juice if Britain left the EU without a deal and defaulted to the World Trade Organisation’s (WTO) customs rules.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/10/hard-brexit-english-breakfast-hard-luck-fry-up-fans?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Methinks the authors have a tenuous grasp on the cooking of most fry up breakfasts.....

    Olive oil smokes and goes acrid when shallow frying, better to use a lighter oil. As for Danish bacon...

    Though under PM JRM the choice would be porridge, kippers or grouse, served by nanny in the nursery.
    You are too posh. Extra virgin olive oil has a notoriously low smoke point (as low as 160 degrees C, according to wikipedia). Plebs' olive oil is better in this regard.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    You are too posh. Extra virgin olive oil has a notoriously low smoke point (as low as 160 degrees C, according to wikipedia). Plebs' olive oil is better in this regard.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point

    None of this EU olive oil muck .... stand up for British dripping !! .... :smiley:
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    WHat is this shite ?

    I'll be glad if Danish (And Dutch) bacon heads north in price, and virgin olive oil on a fry up ???
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Shoppers would be forced to pay £3 more for a traditional British fry-up if the government fails to secure a trade deal with the EU, piling more pressure on already cash-strapped consumers.

    A typical basket of ingredients for a family breakfast could rise by almost 13% from £23.59 to £26.61 according to a report by KPMG.

    The accountancy firm warned households would face above-inflation price rises for imported breakfast classics such as olive oil, bacon and orange juice if Britain left the EU without a deal and defaulted to the World Trade Organisation’s (WTO) customs rules.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/10/hard-brexit-english-breakfast-hard-luck-fry-up-fans?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Methinks the authors have a tenuous grasp on the cooking of most fry up breakfasts.....

    Olive oil smokes and goes acrid when shallow frying, better to use a lighter oil. As for Danish bacon...

    Though under PM JRM the choice would be porridge, kippers or grouse, served by nanny in the nursery.
    Plebs' olive oil is better in this regard.
    AKA 'Sunflower' or 'Vegetable'.......

    It really is hilarious that KPMG in seeking to condescend to the 'average voter' thinks they use olive oil in their fry-ups.....

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,182
    CarlottaVance said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Shoppers would be forced to pay £3 more for a traditional British fry-up if the government fails to secure a trade deal with the EU, piling more pressure on already cash-strapped consumers.

    A typical basket of ingredients for a family breakfast could rise by almost 13% from £23.59 to £26.61 according to a report by KPMG.

    The accountancy firm warned households would face above-inflation price rises for imported breakfast classics such as olive oil, bacon and orange juice if Britain left the EU without a deal and defaulted to the World Trade Organisation’s (WTO) customs rules.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/10/hard-brexit-english-breakfast-hard-luck-fry-up-fans?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Methinks the authors have a tenuous grasp on the cooking of most fry up breakfasts.....

    Olive oil smokes and goes acrid when shallow frying, better to use a lighter oil. As for Danish bacon...

    Though under PM JRM the choice would be porridge, kippers or grouse, served by nanny in the nursery.
    Plebs' olive oil is better in this regard.
    AKA 'Sunflower' or 'Vegetable'.......

    It really is hilarious that KPMG in seeking to condescend to the 'average voter' thinks they use olive oil in their fry-ups.....

    Could be a Greek intern. A crust of bread dipped in a pool of olive oil does the job for Greek shepherds so I am told.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,194
    British oil for British fry-ups!

    Rape seed oil is used in the Rentool kitchen. Or butter.

    Oh, and what does Father Jack think of Brexit? That would be an Ecumenical Matter.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    https://groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/product/Morrisons-British-Salted-Butter/294804011?dnr=y

    British butter £1.18 for 250 g vs KPMG's 500g for £4.36....

    Where on earth is KPMG buying this crap from ?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,182
    Save the full English brexit breakfast!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,782
    CarlottaVance said:

    We are also at least fairly realistic about our own impact – with British people pretty close to the global average on their view of Britain.

    That's strange, we're forever being told how deluded we are.......

    Swap the positions of Russia and the US and Iran and Israel and it sounds pretty reasonable
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    JackW said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    You are too posh. Extra virgin olive oil has a notoriously low smoke point (as low as 160 degrees C, according to wikipedia). Plebs' olive oil is better in this regard.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point

    None of this EU olive oil muck .... stand up for British dripping !! .... :smiley:
    Beef Dripping is best for roast potatoes, but no longer for me.

    Neither feature in my rabbit food diet. I have lost 10 kilos in 2 months though. BMI now down to 25. Another 10 to go...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,194
    foxinsoxuk said:

    JackW said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    You are too posh. Extra virgin olive oil has a notoriously low smoke point (as low as 160 degrees C, according to wikipedia). Plebs' olive oil is better in this regard.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point

    None of this EU olive oil muck .... stand up for British dripping !! .... :smiley:
    Beef Dripping is best for roast potatoes, but no longer for me.

    Neither feature in my rabbit food diet. I have lost 10 kilos in 2 months though. BMI now down to 25. Another 10 to go...
    10 kg or 10 BMI points???
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    SandyRentool said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    JackW said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    You are too posh. Extra virgin olive oil has a notoriously low smoke point (as low as 160 degrees C, according to wikipedia). Plebs' olive oil is better in this regard.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point

    None of this EU olive oil muck .... stand up for British dripping !! .... :smiley:
    Beef Dripping is best for roast potatoes, but no longer for me.

    Neither feature in my rabbit food diet. I have lost 10 kilos in 2 months though. BMI now down to 25. Another 10 to go...
    10 kg or 10 BMI points???
    Kilo's. I am not planning anorexia!

    I was inspired by my blood pressure getting a bit borderline, wanted to try lifestyle before pills.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,194
    So have I got this right - May's relaunch involves asking all of the other parties to tell her what the government ought to be doing?

    Can I refer her to the Labour manifesto, and suggest she gets on with it.

    Or better still, asks us to get on with it.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Pulpstar said:

    https://groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/product/Morrisons-British-Salted-Butter/294804011?dnr=y

    British butter £1.18 for 250 g vs KPMG's 500g for £4.36....

    Where on earth is KPMG buying this crap from ?

    I suspect Morrisons will survive a 'Hard Brexit' - of the 16 butters they sell, 10 are UK sourced and two are from New Zealand......
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,198
    While Canada is the world's favourite country, New York is the world's favourite city, London is 3rd.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/IpsosMORI/status/884291094845861888
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,966
    CarlottaVance said:

    Shoppers would be forced to pay £3 more for a traditional British fry-up if the government fails to secure a trade deal with the EU, piling more pressure on already cash-strapped consumers.

    A typical basket of ingredients for a family breakfast could rise by almost 13% from £23.59 to £26.61 according to a report by KPMG.

    The accountancy firm warned households would face above-inflation price rises for imported breakfast classics such as olive oil, bacon and orange juice if Britain left the EU without a deal and defaulted to the World Trade Organisation’s (WTO) customs rules.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/10/hard-brexit-english-breakfast-hard-luck-fry-up-fans?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Methinks the authors have a tenuous grasp on the cooking of most fry up breakfasts.....

    Olive oil made me snort with laughter and spray milk over my phone. Thought you'd all like to know.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,194
    HYUFD said:

    While Canada is the world's favourite country, New York is the world's favourite city, London is 3rd.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/IpsosMORI/status/884291094845861888

    Abu Dhabi second? Who is voting? Go there in July or August and stepping outside is torture.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,194
    Essexit said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Shoppers would be forced to pay £3 more for a traditional British fry-up if the government fails to secure a trade deal with the EU, piling more pressure on already cash-strapped consumers.

    A typical basket of ingredients for a family breakfast could rise by almost 13% from £23.59 to £26.61 according to a report by KPMG.

    The accountancy firm warned households would face above-inflation price rises for imported breakfast classics such as olive oil, bacon and orange juice if Britain left the EU without a deal and defaulted to the World Trade Organisation’s (WTO) customs rules.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/10/hard-brexit-english-breakfast-hard-luck-fry-up-fans?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Methinks the authors have a tenuous grasp on the cooking of most fry up breakfasts.....

    Olive oil made me snort with laughter and spray milk over my phone. Thought you'd all like to know.
    I didn't know you were lactating.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,940
    So despite spending a huge wodge on Foreign aid were seen as no better than anyone else

    spot the budget saving

  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    HYUFD said:

    While Canada is the world's favourite country, New York is the world's favourite city, London is 3rd.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/IpsosMORI/status/884291094845861888

    Abu Dhabi is the world's second favourite city?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Alanbrooke said:

    So despite spending a huge wodge on Foreign aid were seen as no better than anyone else

    spot the budget saving

    Without it we might have the popularity of Iran...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,940
    edited July 2017
    foxinsoxuk said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    So despite spending a huge wodge on Foreign aid were seen as no better than anyone else

    spot the budget saving

    Without it we might have the popularity of Iran...
    without it we could pay for free higher education

    we might even try training some doctors for a change

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    edited July 2017
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    HYUFD said:

    While Canada is the world's favourite country, New York is the world's favourite city, London is 3rd.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/IpsosMORI/status/884291094845861888

    Abu Dhabi is the world's second favourite city?
    Seen as good for business.....

    EU ranking of European cities:

    London: 49
    Zurich: 43
    Paris: 40
    Rome: 37
    Berin: 31
    Madrid: 23
    Brussels: 14

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/ipsos-top-cities-2017
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,782
    Angela Raynor thinks she's thought 'thick' because of her northern accent. I wonder whether it's the accent that's the problem?

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/corbyn-ally-angela-rayner-passionately-10763442



  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,194
    CarlottaVance said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    HYUFD said:

    While Canada is the world's favourite country, New York is the world's favourite city, London is 3rd.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/IpsosMORI/status/884291094845861888

    Abu Dhabi is the world's second favourite city?
    Seen as good for business.....

    EU ranking of European cities:

    London: 49
    Zurich: 43
    Paris: 40
    Rome: 37
    Berin: 31
    Madrid: 23
    Brussels: 14

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/ipsos-top-cities-2017
    "New York and Abu Dhabi are unparalleled as centres for business but they score less strongly as a place to live or visit"

    So New York and Abu Dhabi are the top two, except nobody would want to live there or visit there. Great survey!
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,228
    foxinsoxuk said:

    https://readyformogg.org/

    My fairly mainstream Conservative uncle on the Isle of Wight has posted this on FB.

    Signs of a real move to make JRM the PM?

    Rees-Mogg versus Corbyn? I would have laughed at both a year ago. Actually they are quite similar - personable, issues driven, no policy, unsuitable to be leaders.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,531
    FF43 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    https://readyformogg.org/

    My fairly mainstream Conservative uncle on the Isle of Wight has posted this on FB.

    Signs of a real move to make JRM the PM?

    Rees-Mogg versus Corbyn? I would have laughed at both a year ago. Actually they are quite similar - personable, issues driven, no policy, unsuitable to be leaders.
    RM is for light entertainment only; a fairground amusement who would grate with repeated exposure. How can anyone take him seriously as a potential leader?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,864
    IanB2 said:

    FF43 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    https://readyformogg.org/

    My fairly mainstream Conservative uncle on the Isle of Wight has posted this on FB.

    Signs of a real move to make JRM the PM?

    Rees-Mogg versus Corbyn? I would have laughed at both a year ago. Actually they are quite similar - personable, issues driven, no policy, unsuitable to be leaders.
    RM is for light entertainment only; a fairground amusement who would grate with repeated exposure. How can anyone take him seriously as a potential leader?
    He might win and do well for precisely the same reasons Corbyn did.

    Those are the times we live in.

    Also, to be fair, he's one of the few Tory MPs who give an intellectually confident defence of Conservativism.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,776
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: post-race analysis is up here:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/austria-post-race-analysis-2017.html

    To expand on the Bottas thinking, I do believe the 17 on him for the title is simply too long. It's a three horse race, and, whilst he's third, he's in the running.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,668
    JackW said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    You are too posh. Extra virgin olive oil has a notoriously low smoke point (as low as 160 degrees C, according to wikipedia). Plebs' olive oil is better in this regard.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point

    None of this EU olive oil muck .... stand up for British dripping !! .... :smiley:
    Surely you drizzle it on your wholemeal toast before slicing the avocado on it, Jack ?
    :smile:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,668
    FF43 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    https://readyformogg.org/

    My fairly mainstream Conservative uncle on the Isle of Wight has posted this on FB.

    Signs of a real move to make JRM the PM?

    Rees-Mogg versus Corbyn? I would have laughed at both a year ago. Actually they are quite similar - personable, issues driven, no policy, unsuitable to be leaders.
    And the gap in the centre of British politics yawns wider...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,864
    Pulpstar said:

    WHat is this shite ?

    I'll be glad if Danish (And Dutch) bacon heads north in price, and virgin olive oil on a fry up ???

    They probably buy their breakfasts from a hipster cafe in Shoreditch.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,194
    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    FF43 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    https://readyformogg.org/

    My fairly mainstream Conservative uncle on the Isle of Wight has posted this on FB.

    Signs of a real move to make JRM the PM?

    Rees-Mogg versus Corbyn? I would have laughed at both a year ago. Actually they are quite similar - personable, issues driven, no policy, unsuitable to be leaders.
    RM is for light entertainment only; a fairground amusement who would grate with repeated exposure. How can anyone take him seriously as a potential leader?
    He might win and do well for precisely the same reasons Corbyn did.

    Those are the times we live in.

    Also, to be fair, he's one of the few Tory MPs who give an intellectually confident defence of Conservativism.
    He's playing a longer game - in 40 years' time half the cabinet will be mini-Moggsters.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,135
    Alanbrooke said:

    So despite spending a huge wodge on Foreign aid were seen as no better than anyone else

    spot the budget saving

    Alan you didn't strike me as the sort of person who gives money to charity and then wants to be thanked for it.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,864
    SandyRentool said:

    So have I got this right - May's relaunch involves asking all of the other parties to tell her what the government ought to be doing?

    Can I refer her to the Labour manifesto, and suggest she gets on with it.

    Or better still, asks us to get on with it.

    The trouble is she can do very little with her current parliamentary position other than simply occupy office. It's a disaster.

    Corbyn as PM would be an even bigger disaster.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Stench of decay around May this morning.

    Still can't fathom why the Tories are going for this drawn out, painful leadership contest.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,135
    FF43 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    https://readyformogg.org/

    My fairly mainstream Conservative uncle on the Isle of Wight has posted this on FB.

    Signs of a real move to make JRM the PM?

    Rees-Mogg versus Corbyn? I would have laughed at both a year ago. Actually they are quite similar - personable, issues driven, no policy, unsuitable to be leaders.
    We are in those days.

    Like everyone in the UK I haven't spent much time considering JRM for PM, or anything else for that matter. But he is a very bright guy, a constitutionalist, unencumbered by a need for self-enrichment, is probably more "down with the kids" (I know, I know, nanny canvassing) than many Cons MPs, and who knows.

    Negatives? Obduracy (can be good/bad we're seeing how it can backfire with Tezza, obvs). One particular faith-driven might cause problems.

    I mean that we're having this discussion in itself is the most telling element.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,135
    Casino_Royale said:

    SandyRentool said:

    So have I got this right - May's relaunch involves asking all of the other parties to tell her what the government ought to be doing?

    Can I refer her to the Labour manifesto, and suggest she gets on with it.

    Or better still, asks us to get on with it.

    The trouble is she can do very little with her current parliamentary position other than simply occupy office. It's a disaster.

    Corbyn as PM would be an even bigger disaster.
    Never mind the Labour Party, she should (have) ask(ed) the rest of her own party what they want.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,864
    Jonathan said:

    Stench of decay around May this morning.

    Still can't fathom why the Tories are going for this drawn out, painful leadership contest.

    Well, we're supposed to be asking you now..

    What do you suggest?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    JRM is an intriguing choice. Bright lad.

    Final nail in the coffin of BAU centrist politics.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,182
    Could be a worthy successor to Andrew Tyrie on the TSC.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,668
    Casino_Royale said:

    SandyRentool said:

    So have I got this right - May's relaunch involves asking all of the other parties to tell her what the government ought to be doing?

    Can I refer her to the Labour manifesto, and suggest she gets on with it.

    Or better still, asks us to get on with it.

    The trouble is she can do very little with her current parliamentary position other than simply occupy office. It's a disaster.

    Corbyn as PM would be an even bigger disaster.
    A return to the 1950s versus one to the 1970s...

    An unappetising choice.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Casino_Royale said:

    Jonathan said:

    Stench of decay around May this morning.

    Still can't fathom why the Tories are going for this drawn out, painful leadership contest.

    Well, we're supposed to be asking you now..

    What do you suggest?
    New leader, snap election asap. Do or die.

    Hanging on never works. You may fear Corbyn, but you will only gain a few months at the cost of your party by dragging this out.



  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,839
    CarlottaVance said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    HYUFD said:

    While Canada is the world's favourite country, New York is the world's favourite city, London is 3rd.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/IpsosMORI/status/884291094845861888

    Abu Dhabi is the world's second favourite city?
    Seen as good for business.....

    EU ranking of European cities:

    London: 49
    Zurich: 43
    Paris: 40
    Rome: 37
    Berin: 31
    Madrid: 23
    Brussels: 14

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/ipsos-top-cities-2017
    I'm surprised Paris and Rome are so high, and Madrid and Berlin so low. We're looking to open a European development centre with a UX focus, and Berlin looks to be by far the best choice.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,194
    Jonathan said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Jonathan said:

    Stench of decay around May this morning.

    Still can't fathom why the Tories are going for this drawn out, painful leadership contest.

    Well, we're supposed to be asking you now..

    What do you suggest?
    New leader, snap election asap. Do or die.

    Hanging on never works. You may fear Corbyn, but you will only gain a few months at the cost of your party by dragging this out.



    But in the autumn election, best not run on a 'Strong & Stable' ticket.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    foxinsoxuk said:

    JackW said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    You are too posh. Extra virgin olive oil has a notoriously low smoke point (as low as 160 degrees C, according to wikipedia). Plebs' olive oil is better in this regard.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point

    None of this EU olive oil muck .... stand up for British dripping !! .... :smiley:
    Beef Dripping is best for roast potatoes, but no longer for me.

    Neither feature in my rabbit food diet. I have lost 10 kilos in 2 months though. BMI now down to 25. Another 10 to go...
    Lightweight !! .... :sunglasses:
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    rcs1000 said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    HYUFD said:

    While Canada is the world's favourite country, New York is the world's favourite city, London is 3rd.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/IpsosMORI/status/884291094845861888

    Abu Dhabi is the world's second favourite city?
    Seen as good for business.....

    EU ranking of European cities:

    London: 49
    Zurich: 43
    Paris: 40
    Rome: 37
    Berin: 31
    Madrid: 23
    Brussels: 14

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/ipsos-top-cities-2017
    I'm surprised Paris and Rome are so high, and Madrid and Berlin so low. We're looking to open a European development centre with a UX focus, and Berlin looks to be by far the best choice.
    Recruitment in Berlin quite hard. Big gaps in some disciplines.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,782
    FF43 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    https://readyformogg.org/

    My fairly mainstream Conservative uncle on the Isle of Wight has posted this on FB.

    Signs of a real move to make JRM the PM?

    Rees-Mogg versus Corbyn? I would have laughed at both a year ago. Actually they are quite similar - personable, issues driven, no policy, unsuitable to be leaders.
    One looks acts and sounds like a clown.

    The other's the real thing
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Theresa May's relaunch lasted about a day. Great in the Sunday papers; lost it again on Monday's front pages.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Nigelb said:

    JackW said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    You are too posh. Extra virgin olive oil has a notoriously low smoke point (as low as 160 degrees C, according to wikipedia). Plebs' olive oil is better in this regard.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point

    None of this EU olive oil muck .... stand up for British dripping !! .... :smiley:
    Surely you drizzle it on your wholemeal toast before slicing the avocado on it, Jack ?
    :smile:
    I think not .... :naughty:
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,228
    Roger said:


    FF43 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    https://readyformogg.org/

    My fairly mainstream Conservative uncle on the Isle of Wight has posted this on FB.

    Signs of a real move to make JRM the PM?

    Rees-Mogg versus Corbyn? I would have laughed at both a year ago. Actually they are quite similar - personable, issues driven, no policy, unsuitable to be leaders.
    One looks acts and sounds like a clown.

    The other's the real thing
    Astute observation.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Roger said:


    FF43 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    https://readyformogg.org/

    My fairly mainstream Conservative uncle on the Isle of Wight has posted this on FB.

    Signs of a real move to make JRM the PM?

    Rees-Mogg versus Corbyn? I would have laughed at both a year ago. Actually they are quite similar - personable, issues driven, no policy, unsuitable to be leaders.
    One looks acts and sounds like a clown.

    The other's the real thing
    Which is worse?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    https://twitter.com/CraigOliver100/status/884308344697225216
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,844
    Why is Jacob Rees Mogg being discussed as a serious contender? He is one of the last people the tories should be looking at. Don't learn the wrong lesson from Cameron - he was able to connect with the public at large because while he didn't try and hide being posh, he focused on being seen as 'down to earth' and 'one of us' - hence all the fruit ninja and chillaxing with boxsets. JRM, and respect to him for embracing it, is a very different type of posh tory - he will not connect with the public at large. Comparisons with Corbyn are misplaced - JRM is on the toff wing of the party, and is the mirror image of the 'champagne socialist / luvvie' wing in Labour. Corbyn is more of an insurgent - Farage is a better mirror for Corbyn on the right.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,228
    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:


    FF43 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    https://readyformogg.org/

    My fairly mainstream Conservative uncle on the Isle of Wight has posted this on FB.

    Signs of a real move to make JRM the PM?

    Rees-Mogg versus Corbyn? I would have laughed at both a year ago. Actually they are quite similar - personable, issues driven, no policy, unsuitable to be leaders.
    One looks acts and sounds like a clown.

    The other's the real thing
    Which is worse?
    Either Rees-Mogg is very cynical or he is a fool because you can be clever but not smart. I suspect the second. Corbyn is genuinely dim.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,668
    From yesterday's discussion on university funding, a strong reason not to trash the sector is that it's a very big positive contributor to our balance of payments:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40447950

    There are good reasons for funding reform, but whatever we do should be carefully considered, rather than brought in by May in a desperate attempt to salvage her popularity... or Corbyn in a ferment of social justice enthusiasm.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Caught some of Rayner on Marr from yesterday. The Labour party are seriously presenting this woman as a potential SOS for Education? My word, this country is doomed. It would be akin to placing Baldrick in charge of the army.

  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Nigelb said:

    From yesterday's discussion on university funding, a strong reason not to trash the sector is that it's a very big positive contributor to our balance of payments:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40447950

    There are good reasons for funding reform, but whatever we do should be carefully considered, rather than brought in by May in a desperate attempt to salvage her popularity... or Corbyn in a ferment of social justice enthusiasm.

    Is that the right link? It seems to be about getting children into Eton and other top public schools.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,135
    Nigelb said:

    From yesterday's discussion on university funding, a strong reason not to trash the sector is that it's a very big positive contributor to our balance of payments:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40447950

    There are good reasons for funding reform, but whatever we do should be carefully considered, rather than brought in by May in a desperate attempt to salvage her popularity... or Corbyn in a ferment of social justice enthusiasm.

    I was just wondering why someone like Gina Millar doesn't sue the Labour Party for false representation. They pledged to abolish tuition fees which undoubtedly caused many youngsters to vote for them. Now that pledge is an aim, or ambition.

    So their lying very probably cost the Cons their OM and that surely is actionable.

    (IANAL, obvs)
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,228
    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/CraigOliver100/status/884308344697225216

    Not for the first time I am scratching my head about what May's strategy might be.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,782
    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:


    FF43 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    https://readyformogg.org/

    My fairly mainstream Conservative uncle on the Isle of Wight has posted this on FB.

    Signs of a real move to make JRM the PM?

    Rees-Mogg versus Corbyn? I would have laughed at both a year ago. Actually they are quite similar - personable, issues driven, no policy, unsuitable to be leaders.
    One looks acts and sounds like a clown.

    The other's the real thing
    Which is worse?
    It's hard to say but if that's the choice I'm not too unhappy about May staying on until alternatives for both of them are found
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,194
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    From yesterday's discussion on university funding, a strong reason not to trash the sector is that it's a very big positive contributor to our balance of payments:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40447950

    There are good reasons for funding reform, but whatever we do should be carefully considered, rather than brought in by May in a desperate attempt to salvage her popularity... or Corbyn in a ferment of social justice enthusiasm.

    I was just wondering why someone like Gina Millar doesn't sue the Labour Party for false representation. They pledged to abolish tuition fees which undoubtedly caused many youngsters to vote for them. Now that pledge is an aim, or ambition.

    So their lying very probably cost the Cons their OM and that surely is actionable.

    (IANAL, obvs)
    Writing off existing student debt is an ambition. Abolishing fees is a policy.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,966
    SandyRentool said:

    Essexit said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Shoppers would be forced to pay £3 more for a traditional British fry-up if the government fails to secure a trade deal with the EU, piling more pressure on already cash-strapped consumers.

    A typical basket of ingredients for a family breakfast could rise by almost 13% from £23.59 to £26.61 according to a report by KPMG.

    The accountancy firm warned households would face above-inflation price rises for imported breakfast classics such as olive oil, bacon and orange juice if Britain left the EU without a deal and defaulted to the World Trade Organisation’s (WTO) customs rules.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/10/hard-brexit-english-breakfast-hard-luck-fry-up-fans?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Methinks the authors have a tenuous grasp on the cooking of most fry up breakfasts.....

    Olive oil made me snort with laughter and spray milk over my phone. Thought you'd all like to know.
    I didn't know you were lactating.
    *shudder*
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Roger said:

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:


    FF43 said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    https://readyformogg.org/

    My fairly mainstream Conservative uncle on the Isle of Wight has posted this on FB.

    Signs of a real move to make JRM the PM?

    Rees-Mogg versus Corbyn? I would have laughed at both a year ago. Actually they are quite similar - personable, issues driven, no policy, unsuitable to be leaders.
    One looks acts and sounds like a clown.

    The other's the real thing
    Which is worse?
    It's hard to say but if that's the choice I'm not too unhappy about May staying on until alternatives for both of them are found
    Not viable. Here's a song for modern politics...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DohRa9lsx0Q
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,864
    Jonathan said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Jonathan said:

    Stench of decay around May this morning.

    Still can't fathom why the Tories are going for this drawn out, painful leadership contest.

    Well, we're supposed to be asking you now..

    What do you suggest?
    New leader, snap election asap. Do or die.

    Hanging on never works. You may fear Corbyn, but you will only gain a few months at the cost of your party by dragging this out.



    Ok. We'd be roasted though.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited July 2017
    Nigelb said:

    From yesterday's discussion on university funding, a strong reason not to trash the sector is that it's a very big positive contributor to our balance of payments:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40447950

    There are good reasons for funding reform, but whatever we do should be carefully considered, rather than brought in by May in a desperate attempt to salvage her popularity... or Corbyn in a ferment of social justice enthusiasm.

    I agree with this.

    One of the most dishonest contributions to the whole debate was from Lord Adonis yesterday. The Great Architect of Tuition Fees now thinks they should be dismantled because:

    "They were a sensible idea wrecked by David Cameron and Nick Clegg’s decision to treble them overnight, and by the greed and complacency of vice-chancellors who thought they were a licence to print money"

    Nick Clegg and David Cameron followed the recommendation of the Browne Review (set up by New Labour).

    There is no greed behind this. The money universities receive per student has not increased dramatically. What has happened is that the source of the money has changed from the State to the student.

    Whilst Vice Chancellors' pay has increased to ridiculous levels, the same phenomenon exists at the top of the BBC or trade unions or local government. I am not defending it, but to suggest, as Adonis does, that this is behind the tripling of fees is wicked nonsense.

    Lord Adonis -- a walking embodiment of all that was wrong with New Labour. Dishonest then, and dishonest now.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,864
    TOPPING said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    SandyRentool said:

    So have I got this right - May's relaunch involves asking all of the other parties to tell her what the government ought to be doing?

    Can I refer her to the Labour manifesto, and suggest she gets on with it.

    Or better still, asks us to get on with it.

    The trouble is she can do very little with her current parliamentary position other than simply occupy office. It's a disaster.

    Corbyn as PM would be an even bigger disaster.
    Never mind the Labour Party, she should (have) ask(ed) the rest of her own party what they want.
    Too busy calling each other fuckers and wankers.

    Bloody Tory party. Never ever bloody learn.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,668
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Nigelb said:

    From yesterday's discussion on university funding, a strong reason not to trash the sector is that it's a very big positive contributor to our balance of payments:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40447950

    There are good reasons for funding reform, but whatever we do should be carefully considered, rather than brought in by May in a desperate attempt to salvage her popularity... or Corbyn in a ferment of social justice enthusiasm.

    Is that the right link? It seems to be about getting children into Eton and other top public schools.
    Read the whole thing, and consider who is paying whom.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,864
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    From yesterday's discussion on university funding, a strong reason not to trash the sector is that it's a very big positive contributor to our balance of payments:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40447950

    There are good reasons for funding reform, but whatever we do should be carefully considered, rather than brought in by May in a desperate attempt to salvage her popularity... or Corbyn in a ferment of social justice enthusiasm.

    I was just wondering why someone like Gina Millar doesn't sue the Labour Party for false representation. They pledged to abolish tuition fees which undoubtedly caused many youngsters to vote for them. Now that pledge is an aim, or ambition.

    So their lying very probably cost the Cons their OM and that surely is actionable.

    (IANAL, obvs)
    The GE2017 is the greatest work of fiction since Charlie and the Chocolate factory. The disappointments will be vast and legion.

    Since Corbyn and McDonnell don't particularly care for representative democracy, they don't view what goes into it as particularly relevant, so long as it gains them Office.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,668
    YBarddCwsc said:

    Nigelb said:

    From yesterday's discussion on university funding, a strong reason not to trash the sector is that it's a very big positive contributor to our balance of payments:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40447950

    There are good reasons for funding reform, but whatever we do should be carefully considered, rather than brought in by May in a desperate attempt to salvage her popularity... or Corbyn in a ferment of social justice enthusiasm.

    I agree with this.

    One of the most dishonest contributions to the whole debate was from Lord Adonis yesterday. The Great Architect of Tuition Fees now thinks they should be dismantled because:

    "They were a sensible idea wrecked by David Cameron and Nick Clegg’s decision to treble them overnight, and by the greed and complacency of vice-chancellors who thought they were a licence to print money"

    Nick Clegg and David Cameron followed the recommendation of the Browne Review (set up by New Labour).

    There is no greed behind this. The money universities receive per student has not increased dramatically. What has happened is that the source of the money has changed from the State to the student.

    Whilst Vice Chancellors pay has increased to ridiculous levels, the same phenomenon exists at the top of the BBC or trade unions or local government I am not defending it, but to suggest, as Adonis does, that this is behind the tripling of fees is wicked nonsense.

    Lord Adonis -- a walking embodiment of all that was wrong with New Labour. Dishonest then, and dishonest now.
    Or perhaps one of those dangerous men who know enough to consider themselves experts, and not enough to realise that they aren't ?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    SandyRentool said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    From yesterday's discussion on university funding, a strong reason not to trash the sector is that it's a very big positive contributor to our balance of payments:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40447950

    There are good reasons for funding reform, but whatever we do should be carefully considered, rather than brought in by May in a desperate attempt to salvage her popularity... or Corbyn in a ferment of social justice enthusiasm.

    I was just wondering why someone like Gina Millar doesn't sue the Labour Party for false representation. They pledged to abolish tuition fees which undoubtedly caused many youngsters to vote for them. Now that pledge is an aim, or ambition.

    So their lying very probably cost the Cons their OM and that surely is actionable.

    (IANAL, obvs)
    Writing off existing student debt is an ambition. Abolishing fees is a policy.
    I just don't think you will be able to get away with this.

    You won't be able to leave one cohort treated blatantly unfairly.

    Just as -- when you establish the National Care Service -- and dementia treatment is free, families like mine will demand the return of the money we spent looking after our sick parents.
This discussion has been closed.

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