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foxinsoxuk said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

In other news.....

https://twitter.com/JournoStephen/status/883676624075542529

I've just read the statement. What are people objecting to? It's seems very reasonable to me, but presumably it didn't check some box or other?

I suppose it is the DUP toxification factor. Being positive about pride and sucking up to the DUP the same month.

FF43 said:

Sean_F said:

tlg86 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

archer101au said:

It is a bit tiresome seeing the same thing repeated all over again.

The issue is not that May is terrible - it is that the anti-Brexit crowd realise that the easiest way to avoid Brexit is if she can somehow be replaced with a remainer. OK, we get it, you don't like hard Brexit. But at the moment it is wish-fulfilment masquerading as analysis.

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

A 'Theresa May is rubbish' thread! How novel! Haven't seen one of those before.

http://hastheresamayresignedyet.com

Not updated in nigh on a month.....

Meanwhile, at the G20:

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/07/08/donald-trump-really-said-angela-merkel/

And you will go on seeing them as long as TMay clings onto power.

Explain her dire personal poll ratings then.

She's a broken reed. Only the absence of an obvious successor is keeping her in place.

Surely Hammond is the obvious successor? I think the problem he - and anyone else for that matter - has is that May has just won most seats in a GE. It would have been odd if Cameron had been overthrown for a similar set of numbers in 2015.

I know that it's all about expectations on this site, but it isn't like that in the real world. This is a bit of a problem for the Tories. They think their leader is rubbish but she's just racked up more votes than any Tory leader in over 25 years. It would only make sense for someone to overthrow her if they had the guts to have another election in the autumn.

Hammond as PM would simply be May without the charisma.

He has a degree of realism about Brexit, unlike May. That's a problem amongst elements of his party that don't share his realism. On the other hand Brexit is the looming issue that's going to hit in 18 months time.

Charles said:

Mike - we all know your and TSE's views on this. Most of the threads aren't saying anything new. There are more interesting topics to write about!

Charles said:

Mike - we all know your and TSE's views on this. Most of the threads aren't saying anything new. There are more interesting topics to write about!

HYUFD said:

daodao said:

CarlottaVance said:

felix said:

CarlottaVance said:

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

A 'Theresa May is rubbish' thread! How novel! Haven't seen one of those before.

http://hastheresamayresignedyet.com

Not updated in nigh on a month.....

Meanwhile, at the G20:

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/07/08/donald-trump-really-said-angela-merkel/

And you will go on seeing them as long as TMay clings onto power.

Unless her numbers change - but you've discounted that, haven't you?

Oh well, two years of 'Theresa May is Rubbish.com' it is then.

I expect you and TSE will enjoy yourselves, at least.....

So you think she has some merits apart from just being a Tory? She's like IDS except she's proved her total electoral ineptness.

She is Prime Minister - and probably will be for another 2 years or more.

Get over it.

I fear for the future of the UK as never before should the Corbyn agenda prevail.

But that's the point - it will be the UK......whatever her overall 'disaster' (sic) May's GE has seen off the SNP in Scotland - down to Davidson - the narrative of 'inevitable momentum' is dead - and in 20 years time that may well be seen as the most significant impact of this election. Not Blair, not Brown, not Cameron - but whisper it quietly - possibly May - has (inadvertently) killed nationalism in our lifetimes....

You are probably right with respect to Scotland (i.e. the unity of GB has been strengthened), but the future of the 6 counties within the UK has become much more tenuous following the Brexit/NI assembly/GE votes there in the last 13 months. The SNP are a busted flush, but SF have been invigorated.

The DUP has won both elections in NI this year, the SNP has fallen to its lowest voteshare for 10 years, this year has given a big boost to the Union

Tykejohnno said:

FF43 said:

Sean_F said:

tlg86 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

archer101au said:

It is a bit tiresome seeing the same thing repeated all over again.

The issue is not that May is terrible - it is that the anti-Brexit crowd realise that the easiest way to avoid Brexit is if she can somehow be replaced with a remainer. OK, we get it, you don't like hard Brexit. But at the moment it is wish-fulfilment masquerading as analysis.

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

A 'Theresa May is rubbish' thread! How novel! Haven't seen one of those before.

http://hastheresamayresignedyet.com

Not updated in nigh on a month.....

Meanwhile, at the G20:

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/07/08/donald-trump-really-said-angela-merkel/

And you will go on seeing them as long as TMay clings onto power.

Explain her dire personal poll ratings then.

She's a broken reed. Only the absence of an obvious successor is keeping her in place.

Surely Hammond is the obvious successor? I think the problem he - and anyone else for that matter - has is that May has just won most seats in a GE. It would have been odd if Cameron had been overthrown for a similar set of numbers in 2015.

I know that it's all about expectations on this site, but it isn't like that in the real world. This is a bit of a problem for the Tories. They think their leader is rubbish but she's just racked up more votes than any Tory leader in over 25 years. It would only make sense for someone to overthrow her if they had the guts to have another election in the autumn.

Hammond as PM would simply be May without the charisma.

He has a degree of realism about Brexit, unlike May. That's a problem amongst elements of his party that don't share his realism. On the other hand Brexit is the looming issue that's going to hit in 18 months time.

Why don't some of you Theresa may haters on here that the real reason you want rid is about leaving the EU.

Theresa may in some eyes on here represents hard brexit or even just leaving the EU and must go now.

felix said:

Sean_F said:

felix said:

OldKingCole said:

foxinsoxuk said:

FF43 said:

PeterC said:

It's a more interesting topic than this ding dong.

Theresa May became PM a year ago to near universal acclaim. She was apparently the only grown up left standing whose reputation had not been destroyed by the disastrous referendum. Even those who held no special brief for her - George Osborne included - were saying she was the right, indeed only, choice to be PM. She must have had positive qualities (and luck) to have carried her as far as she had come. It is shallow and stupid to conclude that she is just "rubbish".


Mrs May is not uniquely bad but she was tested early, gave in to temptation and suffered an especially severe fall.

Good comment, however I would say Mrs May was tested late on a major character issue that only became apparent after she became PM. She can't cope at all with situations she doesn't control. Arguably this should preclude her from politics entirely but it certainly makes her unsuitable to be prime minister of a divided country implementing the biggest structural change the country has seen in recent times, and where others mostly decide what's possible.

Home Secretary is mostly about stopping bad things happen so her need to control helped her there

I always thought she was rubbish in her six years at the Home Office. She achieved nothing there.

Apart from upsetting the police and, IIRC, the firemen. Among others.

Can you name any Home/Education/Health Sec who hasn't annoyed the producer interest groups - it is their job to look out for the consumers!

There are times when you have no choice but to upset people. But, one should avoid doing it needlessly. And one should choose one's enemies with care. It's fine to piss off groups like the NUT. One should avoid pissing off sensible teachers like Ydoethur.

I don't disagree. Her performance as Home Sec flattered to deceive her potential as a PM. TBF it deceived an awful lot of people and not just Tory loyalists. We are where we are and the biggest danger right now which is getting very little scrutiny here is this sort of thing;


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4678616/DAN-HODGES-Moderates-pointless-thanks-Corbyn-s-bullies.html

foxinsoxuk said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

In other news.....

https://twitter.com/JournoStephen/status/883676624075542529

I've just read the statement. What are people objecting to? It's seems very reasonable to me, but presumably it didn't check some box or other?

I suppose it is the DUP toxification factor. Being positive about pride and sucking up to the DUP the same month.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Andrew Marr just got Angela Rayner to admit that Corbyn's promise to pay off student debt was another misleading statement by him. The cost apparently is an eye watering 100 billion.

Dura_Ace said:

Tykejohnno said:

FF43 said:

Sean_F said:

tlg86 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

archer101au said:

It is a bit tiresome seeing the same thing repeated all over again.

The issue is not that May is terrible - it is that the anti-Brexit crowd realise that the easiest way to avoid Brexit is if she can somehow be replaced with a remainer. OK, we get it, you don't like hard Brexit. But at the moment it is wish-fulfilment masquerading as analysis.

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

A 'Theresa May is rubbish' thread! How novel! Haven't seen one of those before.

http://hastheresamayresignedyet.com

Not updated in nigh on a month.....

Meanwhile, at the G20:

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/07/08/donald-trump-really-said-angela-merkel/

And you will go on seeing them as long as TMay clings onto power.

Explain her dire personal poll ratings then.

She's a broken reed. Only the absence of an obvious successor is keeping her in place.

Surely Hammond is the obvious successor? I think the problem he - and anyone else for that matter - has is that May has just won most seats in a GE. It would have been odd if Cameron had been overthrown for a similar set of numbers in 2015.

I know that it's all about expectations on this site, but it isn't like that in the real world. This is a bit of a problem for the Tories. They think their leader is rubbish but she's just racked up more votes than any Tory leader in over 25 years. It would only make sense for someone to overthrow her if they had the guts to have another election in the autumn.

Hammond as PM would simply be May without the charisma.

He has a degree of realism about Brexit, unlike May. That's a problem amongst elements of his party that don't share his realism. On the other hand Brexit is the looming issue that's going to hit in 18 months time.

Why don't some of you Theresa may haters on here that the real reason you want rid is about leaving the EU.

Theresa may in some eyes on here represents hard brexit or even just leaving the EU and must go now.

She is basically IDS With a Fanny but getting rid of her wouldn't stop hard Brexit as we'd just get #DD4PM.

Razedabode said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Andrew Marr just got Angela Rayner to admit that Corbyn's promise to pay off student debt was another misleading statement by him. The cost apparently is an eye watering 100 billion.

The real **** hits the fan when/if Corbyn gets into power, and he'll have to implement his stuff. Lots of angry Corbynites

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Andrew Marr just got Angela Rayner to admit that Corbyn's promise to pay off student debt was another misleading statement by him. The cost apparently is an eye watering 100 billion.

CarlottaVance said:

In other news (is there other news? -ed.) what may be the most important election next week:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/08/after-andrew-tyrie-race-next-commons-inquisitor-general-treasury-select-committee

Sean_F said:

HYUFD said:

daodao said:

CarlottaVance said:

felix said:

CarlottaVance said:

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

A 'Theresa May is rubbish' thread! How novel! Haven't seen one of those before.

http://hastheresamayresignedyet.com

Not updated in nigh on a month.....

Meanwhile, at the G20:

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/07/08/donald-trump-really-said-angela-merkel/

And you will go on seeing them as long as TMay clings onto power.

Unless her numbers change - but you've discounted that, haven't you?

Oh well, two years of 'Theresa May is Rubbish.com' it is then.

I expect you and TSE will enjoy yourselves, at least.....

So you think she has some merits apart from just being a Tory? She's like IDS except she's proved her total electoral ineptness.

She is Prime Minister - and probably will be for another 2 years or more.

Get over it.

I fear for the future of the UK as never before should the Corbyn agenda prevail.

But that's the point - it will be the UK......whatever her overall 'disaster' (sic) May's GE has seen off the SNP in Scotland - down to Davidson - the narrative of 'inevitable momentum' is dead - and in 20 years time that may well be seen as the most significant impact of this election. Not Blair, not Brown, not Cameron - but whisper it quietly - possibly May - has (inadvertently) killed nationalism in our lifetimes....

You are probably right with respect to Scotland (i.e. the unity of GB has been strengthened), but the future of the 6 counties within the UK has become much more tenuous following the Brexit/NI assembly/GE votes there in the last 13 months. The SNP are a busted flush, but SF have been invigorated.

The DUP has won both elections in NI this year, the SNP has fallen to its lowest voteshare for 10 years, this year has given a big boost to the Union

Sinn Fein have been invigorated, but they're a long way from a path to victory, and bereft of a strategy.

Mexicanpete said:

I find it strange that losing her majority seems to have strengthened her resolve towards hard Brexit Perhaps if she took on a more conciliatory tone she would be taken more seriously.

SouthamObserver said:

felix said:

Sean_F said:

felix said:

OldKingCole said:

foxinsoxuk said:

FF43 said:

PeterC said:

It's a more interesting topic than this ding dong.

Theresa "rubbish".

What has happened illustrates that the premiership is an order of magnitude leap from any other job in cabinet. Events, in Macmillan's immortal phrase, will seek out the individual's peculiar weaknesses and these will be the cause of his or her downfall. May was cold, controlling uncommunicative and unstrategic,

Mrs May is not uniquely bad but she was tested early, gave in to temptation and suffered an especially severe fall.

Good comment, however I would say Mrs May was tested late on a major character issue that only became apparent after she became PM. She can't cope at all with situations she doesn't control. Arguably this should preclude her from politics entirely but it certainly makes her unsuitable to be prime minister of a divided country implementing the biggest structural change the country has seen in recent times, and where others mostly decide what's possible.

Home Secretary is mostly about stopping bad things happen so her need to control helped her there

I always thought she was rubbish in her six years at the Home Office. She achieved nothing there.

Apart from upsetting the police and, IIRC, the firemen. Among others.

Can you name any Home/Education/Health Sec who hasn't annoyed the producer interest groups - it is their job to look out for the consumers!

There are times when you have no choice but to upset people. But, one should avoid doing it needlessly. And one should choose one's enemies with care. It's fine to piss off groups like the NUT. One should avoid pissing off sensible teachers like Ydoethur.

I don't disagree. Her performance as Home Sec flattered to deceive her potential as a PM. TBF it deceived an awful lot of people and not just Tory loyalists. We are where we are and the biggest danger right now which is getting very little scrutiny here is this sort of thing;


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4678616/DAN-HODGES-Moderates-pointless-thanks-Corbyn-s-bullies.html

Labour's obsession with ensuring it never wins an election again is hugely damaging to the country as it means the worst government in British history essentially gets no opposition. But given that Labour is ensuring the Tories will retain power, surely what they are doing with this power is of much more importance.

Charles said:

SouthamObserver said:

felix said:

Sean_F said:

felix said:

OldKingCole said:

foxinsoxuk said:

FF43 said:

PeterC said:

It's a more interesting topic than this ding dong.

Theresa "rubbish".

What has happened illustrates that the premiership is an order of magnitude leap from any other job in cabinet. Events, in Macmillan's immortal phrase, will seek out the individual's peculiar weaknesses and these will be the cause of his or her downfall. May was cold, controlling uncommunicative and unstrategic,

Mrs May is not uniquely bad but she was tested early, gave in to temptation and suffered an especially severe fall.

Good comment, however I would say Mrs May was tested late on a major character issue that only became apparent after she became PM. She can't cope at all with situations she doesn't control. Arguably this should preclude her from politics entirely but it certainly makes her unsuitable to be prime minister of a divided country implementing the biggest structural change the country has seen in recent times, and where others mostly decide what's possible.

Home Secretary is mostly about stopping bad things happen so her need to control helped her there

I always thought she was rubbish in her six years at the Home Office. She achieved nothing there.

Apart from upsetting the police and, IIRC, the firemen. Among others.

Can you name any Home/Education/Health Sec who hasn't annoyed the producer interest groups - it is their job to look out for the consumers!

There are times when you have no choice but to upset people. But, one should avoid doing it needlessly. And one should choose one's enemies with care. It's fine to piss off groups like the NUT. One should avoid pissing off sensible teachers like Ydoethur.

I don't disagree. Her performance as Home Sec flattered to deceive her potential as a PM. TBF it deceived an awful lot of people and not just Tory loyalists. We are where we are and the biggest danger right now which is getting very little scrutiny here is this sort of thing;


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4678616/DAN-HODGES-Moderates-pointless-thanks-Corbyn-s-bullies.html

Labour's obsession with ensuring it never wins an election again is hugely damaging to the country as it means the worst government in British history essentially gets no opposition. But given that Labour is ensuring the Tories will retain power, surely what they are doing with this power is of much more importance.

That's a bit hyperbolic.

How about Lord North's government?

Tykejohnno said:

FF43 said:

Sean_F said:

tlg86 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

archer101au said:

It is a bit tiresome seeing the same thing repeated all over again.

The issue is not that May is terrible - it is that the anti-Brexit crowd realise that the easiest way to avoid Brexit is if she can somehow be replaced with a remainer. OK, we get it, you don't like hard Brexit. But at the moment it is wish-fulfilment masquerading as analysis.

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

A 'Theresa May is rubbish' thread! How novel! Haven't seen one of those before.

http://hastheresamayresignedyet.com

Not updated in nigh on a month.....

Meanwhile, at the G20:

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/07/08/donald-trump-really-said-angela-merkel/

And you will go on seeing them as long as TMay clings onto power.

Explain her dire personal poll ratings then.

She's a broken reed. Only the absence of an obvious successor is keeping her in place.

Surely Hammond is the obvious successor? I think the problem he - and anyone else for that matter - has is that May has just won most seats in a GE. It would have been odd if Cameron had been overthrown for a similar set of numbers in 2015.

I know that it's all about expectations on this site, but it isn't like that in the real world. This is a bit of a problem for the Tories. They think their leader is rubbish but she's just racked up more votes than any Tory leader in over 25 years. It would only make sense for someone to overthrow her if they had the guts to have another election in the autumn.

Hammond as PM would simply be May without the charisma.

He has a degree of realism about Brexit, unlike May. That's a problem amongst elements of his party that don't share his realism. On the other hand Brexit is the looming issue that's going to hit in 18 months time.

Why don't some of you Theresa may haters on here that the real reason you want rid is about leaving the EU.

Theresa may in some eyes on here represents hard brexit or even just leaving the EU and must go now.

DecrepitJohnL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Andrew Marr just got Angela Rayner to admit that Corbyn's promise to pay off student debt was another misleading statement by him. The cost apparently is an eye watering 100 billion.

No, £100 billion is the outstanding debt. Most of which will never be repaid, and the rest will be repaid over many years.

HYUFD said:

daodao said:

CarlottaVance said:

felix said:

CarlottaVance said:

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

A 'Theresa May is rubbish' thread! How novel! Haven't seen one of those before.

http://hastheresamayresignedyet.com

Not updated in nigh on a month.....

Meanwhile, at the G20:

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/07/08/donald-trump-really-said-angela-merkel/

And you will go on seeing them as long as TMay clings onto power.

Unless her numbers change - but you've discounted that, haven't you?

Oh well, two years of 'Theresa May is Rubbish.com' it is then.

I expect you and TSE will enjoy yourselves, at least.....

So you think she has some merits apart from just being a Tory? She's like IDS except she's proved her total electoral ineptness.

She is Prime Minister - and probably will be for another 2 years or more.

Get over it.

I fear for the future of the UK as never before should the Corbyn agenda prevail.

But that's the point - it will be the UK......whatever her overall 'disaster' (sic) May's GE has seen off the SNP in Scotland - down to Davidson - the narrative of 'inevitable momentum' is dead - and in 20 years time that may well be seen as the most significant impact of this election. Not Blair, not Brown, not Cameron - but whisper it quietly - possibly May - has (inadvertently) killed nationalism in our lifetimes....

You are probably right with respect to Scotland (i.e. the unity of GB has been strengthened), but the future of the 6 counties within the UK has become much more tenuous following the Brexit/NI assembly/GE votes there in the last 13 months. The SNP are a busted flush, but SF have been invigorated.

The DUP has won both elections in NI this year, the SNP has fallen to its lowest voteshare for 10 years, this year has given a big boost to the Union

Ishmael_Z said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

In other news.....

https://twitter.com/JournoStephen/status/883676624075542529

I've just read the statement. What are people objecting to? It's seems very reasonable to me, but presumably it didn't check some box or other?

I suppose it is the DUP toxification factor. Being positive about pride and sucking up to the DUP the same month.

The DUP hang people from bridges?

Roger said:

Tykejohnno said:

FF43 said:

Sean_F said:

tlg86 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

archer101au said:

It is a bit tiresome seeing the same thing repeated all over again.

The issue is not that May is terrible - it is that the anti-Brexit crowd realise that the easiest way to avoid Brexit is if she can somehow be replaced with a remainer. OK, we get it, you don't like hard Brexit. But at the moment it is wish-fulfilment masquerading as analysis.

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

A 'Theresa May is rubbish' thread! How novel! Haven't seen one of those before.

http://hastheresamayresignedyet.com

Not updated in nigh on a month.....

Meanwhile, at the G20:

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/07/08/donald-trump-really-said-angela-merkel/

And you will go on seeing them as long as TMay clings onto power.

Explain her dire personal poll ratings then.

She's a broken reed. Only the absence of an obvious successor is keeping her in place.

Surely Hammond is the obvious successor? I think the problem he - and anyone else for that matter - has is that May has just won most seats in a GE. It would have been odd if Cameron had been overthrown for a similar set of numbers in 2015.

I know that it's all about expectations on this site, but it isn't like that in the real world. This is a bit of a problem for the Tories. They think their leader is rubbish but she's just racked up more votes than any Tory leader in over 25 years. It would only make sense for someone to overthrow her if they had the guts to have another election in the autumn.

Hammond as PM would simply be May without the charisma.

He has a degree of realism about Brexit, unlike May. That's a problem amongst elements of his party that don't share his realism. On the other hand Brexit is the looming issue that's going to hit in 18 months time.

Why don't some of you Theresa may haters on here that the real reason you want rid is about leaving the EU.

Theresa may in some eyes on here represents hard brexit or even just leaving the EU and must go now.

I think you're right. If you piss off nearly 50% of the electorate a lot of whom would be natural Tory supporters it's not smart.

SouthamObserver said:

NickPalmer said:

CarlottaVance said:

In other news (is there other news? -ed.) what may be the most important election next week:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/08/after-andrew-tyrie-race-next-commons-inquisitor-general-treasury-select-committee

Interesting analysis on my old committee, worthy of PB. Nicky Morgan and JRM sound like the really obvious favourites. (The candidates are all Tories because the parties divvy up the Select Committee chairs.)

Surely Rees-Mogg is hopelessly compromised if he is still active in the hedge fund he runs (in such an anti-establishment way :-D). Would any opposition MPs outside the DUP and a few of the pro-Brexit Labour MPs, like Corbyn and McDonnell, back him?

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Andrew Marr just got Angela Rayner to admit that Corbyn's promise to pay off student debt was another misleading statement by him. The cost apparently is an eye watering 100 billion.

No, £100 billion is the outstanding debt. Most of which will never be repaid, and the rest will be repaid over many years.

But Corbyn promised to pay it all off and that is the point

DecrepitJohnL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Andrew Marr just got Angela Rayner to admit that Corbyn's promise to pay off student debt was another misleading statement by him. The cost apparently is an eye watering 100 billion.

No, £100 billion is the outstanding debt. Most of which will never be repaid, and the rest will be repaid over many years.

But Corbyn promised to pay it all off and that is the point

That is not the point if you want to know how much the policy will cost rather than what is the biggest number you can get into a headline. It is like after the bank nationalisations which were going to cost trillions of pounds -- but only if every single derivative contract went against the banks, which was impossible.

The current tuition fee and debt system is good for the universities and should be defended as such, but depending on what assumptions are made about repayment rates, it might actually be more expensive than the old grants system.

HYUFD said:

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

daodao said:

CarlottaVance said:

felix said:

CarlottaVance said:

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

A 'Theresa May is rubbish' thread! How novel! Haven't seen one of those before.

http://hastheresamayresignedyet.com

Not updated in nigh on a month.....

Meanwhile, at the G20:

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/07/08/donald-trump-really-said-angela-merkel/

And you will go on seeing them as long as TMay clings onto power.

Unless her numbers change - but you've discounted that, haven't you?

Oh well, two years of 'Theresa May is Rubbish.com' it is then.

I expect you and TSE will enjoy yourselves, at least.....

So you think she has some merits apart from just being a Tory? She's like IDS except she's proved her total electoral ineptness.

She is Prime Minister - and probably will be for another 2 years or more.

Get over it.

I fear for the future of the UK as never before should the Corbyn agenda prevail.

But that's the point - it will be the UK......whatever her overall 'disaster' (sic) May's GE has seen off the SNP in Scotland - down to Davidson - the narrative of 'inevitable momentum' is dead - and in 20 years time that may well be seen as the most significant impact of this election. Not Blair, not Brown, not Cameron - but whisper it quietly - possibly May - has (inadvertently) killed nationalism in our lifetimes....

You are probably right with respect to Scotland (i.e. the unity of GB has been strengthened), but the future of the 6 counties within the UK has become much more tenuous following the Brexit/NI assembly/GE votes there in the last 13 months. The SNP are a busted flush, but SF have been invigorated.

The DUP has won both elections in NI this year, the SNP has fallen to its lowest voteshare for 10 years, this year has given a big boost to the Union

Since you appear to think it's an important metric, the SNP has won both elections in Scotland this year.

Both with less than 40%, the latest figures from Yougov for Scotland give Labour 36%, SNP 31%, Tories 25%. Whatever else I may think of Corbyn he is clearly going to massacre the SNP in the central belt next time and that should finally kill off indyref2 for a generation, I now think Kezia Dugdale will be elected First Minister in 2021, which would be the first Unionist FM for 14 years

Alanbrooke said:

Charles said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Andrew Marr just got Angela Rayner to admit that Corbyn's promise to pay off student debt was another misleading statement by him. The cost apparently is an eye watering 100 billion.

No, £100 billion is the outstanding debt. Most of which will never be repaid, and the rest will be repaid over many years.

If you write it off then it comes due now (or has to be refinanced)

or you treat it as a balance sheet item and write it off

HYUFD said:

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

daodao said:

CarlottaVance said:

felix said:

CarlottaVance said:

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

A 'Theresa May is rubbish' thread! How novel! Haven't seen one of those before.

http://hastheresamayresignedyet.com

Not updated in nigh on a month.....

Meanwhile, at the G20:

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/07/08/donald-trump-really-said-angela-merkel/

And you will go on seeing them as long as TMay clings onto power.

Unless her numbers change - but you've discounted that, haven't you?

Oh well, two years of 'Theresa May is Rubbish.com' it is then.

I expect you and TSE will enjoy yourselves, at least.....

So you think she has some merits apart from just being a Tory? She's like IDS except she's proved her total electoral ineptness.

She is Prime Minister - and probably will be for another 2 years or more.

Get over it.

I fear for the future of the UK as never before should the Corbyn agenda prevail.

But that's the point - it will be the UK......whatever n, not Cameron - but whisper it quietly - possibly May - has (inadvertently) killed nationalism in our lifetimes....

You are probably right with respect to Scotland (i.e. the unity of GB has been strengthened), but the future of the 6 counties within the UK has become much more tenuous following the Brexit/NI assembly/GE votes there in the last 13 months. The SNP are a busted flush, but SF have been invigorated.

The DUP has won both elections in NI this year, the SNP has fallen to its lowest voteshare for 10 years, this year has given a big boost to the Union

Since you appear to think it's an important metric, the SNP has won both elections in Scotland this year.

Both with less than 40%, the latest figures from Yougov for Scotland give Labour 36%, SNP 31%, Tories 25%. Whatever else I may think of Corbyn he is clearly going to massacre the SNP in the central belt next time and that should finally kill off indyref2 for a generation, I now think Kezia Dugdale will be elected First Minister in 2021, which would be the first Unionist FM for 14 years

What odds will you give me for a gentleman's bet on that?

2/1

Alanbrooke said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Andrew Marr just got Angela Rayner to admit that Corbyn's promise to pay off student debt was another misleading statement by him. The cost apparently is an eye watering 100 billion.

No, £100 billion is the outstanding debt. Most of which will never be repaid, and the rest will be repaid over many years.

But Corbyn promised to pay it all off and that is the point

That is not the point if you want to know how much the policy will cost rather than what is the biggest number you can get into a headline. It is like after the bank nationalisations which were going to cost trillions of pounds -- but only if every single derivative contract went against the banks, which was impossible.

The current tuition fee and debt system is good for the universities and should be defended as such, but depending on what assumptions are made about repayment rates, it might actually be more expensive than the old grants system.

The current system does not work

the younger generaion is in for a double whammy

once when they get taxed for the "loan" after they graduate

secondly in later life when the loans arent repaid in 30 years time and the bill gets dumped on their generation to pick up the tab

another_richard said:

Alanbrooke said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Andrew Marr just got Angela Rayner to admit that Corbyn's promise to pay off student debt was another misleading statement by him. The cost apparently is an eye watering 100 billion.

No, £100 billion is the outstanding debt. Most of which will never be repaid, and the rest will be repaid over many years.

But Corbyn promised to pay it all off and that is the point

That is not the point if you want to know how much the policy will cost rather than what is the biggest number you can get into a headline. It is like after the bank nationalisations which were going to cost trillions of pounds -- but only if every single derivative contract went against the banks, which was impossible.

The current tuition fee and debt system is good for the universities and should be defended as such, but depending on what assumptions are made about repayment rates, it might actually be more expensive than the old grants system.

The current system does not work

the younger generaion is in for a double whammy

once when they get taxed for the "loan" after they graduate

secondly in later life when the loans arent repaid in 30 years time and the bill gets dumped on their generation to pick up the tab

I'm amazed as to how casually we're told "Don't worry about student loans as they'll get written off after 30 years".

If they get written off then someone's finances are going to take a hit.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 30 years time limit is steadily increased either.

HYUFD said:

She was clearly hoping for better but ran a far too risky manifesto with the Dementia Tax and ending free school meals and the triple lock etc which she has now sensibly dumped

Sean_F said:

another_richard said:

SouthamObserver said:

felix said:

OldKingCole said:

foxinsoxuk said:

FF43 said:

Good comment, however I would say Mrs May was tested late on a major character issue that only became apparent after she became PM. She can't cope at all with situations she doesn't control. Arguably this should preclude her from politics entirely but it certainly makes her unsuitable to be prime minister of a divided country implementing the biggest structural change the country has seen in recent times, and where others mostly decide what's possible.

Home Secretary is mostly about stopping bad things happen so her need to control helped her there

I always thought she was rubbish in her six years at the Home Office. She achieved nothing there.

Apart from upsetting the police and, IIRC, the firemen. Among others.

Can you name any Home/Education/Health Sec who hasn't annoyed the producer interest groups - it is their job to look out for the consumers!

Looking out for the consumer does no involve rendering the service they use unfit for purpose.

And what happens if the service is already unfit for purpose ?

I suspect that a Home Secretary might have her views on the police changed when those same police are engaged in criminal conspiracies against a fellow cabinet minister.

Perhaps. But only a small minority of the public are hostile to the police, and that minority is not going to vote Conservative.

After this year's events, most people see them as their last line of defence against the animals.

Roger said:

Tykejohnno said:

Roger said:

Tykejohnno said:

FF43 said:

Sean_F said:

tlg86 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

archer101au said:

It is a bit tiresome seeing the same thing repeated all over again.

The issue is not that May is terrible - it is that the anti-Brexit crowd realise that the easiest way to avoid Brexit is if she can somehow be replaced with a remainer. OK, we get it, you don't like hard Brexit. But at the moment it is wish-fulfilment masquerading as analysis.

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

A 'Theresa May is rubbish' thread! How novel! Haven't seen one of those before.

http://hastheresamayresignedyet.com

Not updated in nigh on a month.....

Meanwhile, at the G20:

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/07/08/donald-trump-really-said-angela-merkel/

And you will go on seeing them as long as TMay clings onto power.

Explain her dire personal poll ratings then.

She's a broken reed. Only the absence of an obvious successor is keeping her in place.

Surely Hammond is the obvious successor? I think the problem he - and anyone else for that matter - utumn.

Hammond as PM would simply be May without the charisma.

He has a degree of realism about Brexit, unlike May. That's a problem amongst elements of his party that don't share his realism. On the other hand Brexit is the looming issue that's going to hit in 18 months time.

Why don't some of you Theresa may haters on here that the real reason you want rid is about leaving the EU.

Theresa may in some eyes on here represents hard brexit or even just leaving the EU and must go now.

I think you're right. If you piss off nearly 50% of the electorate a lot of whom would be natural Tory supporters it's not smart.

Some of these natural tory supporters wanted her as leader but I'm sure she will try bring both sides together,it depends on how hardball the EU wants to be.

I think it's time for you Faragists to dry your eyes an accept the inevitable. Brexit isn't happening. My only sadness is that the leaders of the movement aren't being put up against a wall and shot.

Roger said:

Tykejohnno said:

Roger said:

Tykejohnno said:

FF43 said:

Sean_F said:

tlg86 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

archer101au said:

It is a bit tiresome seeing the same thing repeated all over again.

The issue is not that May is terrible - it is that the anti-Brexit crowd realise that the easiest way to avoid Brexit is if she can somehow be replaced with a remainer. OK, we get it, you don't like hard Brexit. But at the moment it is wish-fulfilment masquerading as analysis.

MikeSmithson said:

CarlottaVance said:

A 'Theresa May is rubbish' thread! How novel! Haven't seen one of those before.

http://hastheresamayresignedyet.com

Not updated in nigh on a month.....

Meanwhile, at the G20:

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/07/08/donald-trump-really-said-angela-merkel/

And you will go on seeing them as long as TMay clings onto power.

Explain her dire personal poll ratings then.

She's a broken reed. Only the absence of an obvious successor is keeping her in place.

Surely Hammond is the obvious successor? I think the problem he - and anyone else for that matter - has is that May has just won most seats in a GE. It would have been odd if Cameron had been overthrown for a similar set of numbers in 2015.

I know that it's all about expectations on this site, but it isn't like that in the real world. This is a bit of a problem for the Tories. They think their leader is rubbish but she's just racked up more votes than any Tory leader in over 25 years. It would only make sense for someone to overthrow her if they had the guts to have another election in the autumn.

Hammond as PM would simply be May without the charisma.

He has a degree of realism about Brexit, unlike May. That's a problem amongst elements of his party that don't share his realism. On the other hand Brexit is the looming issue that's going to hit in 18 months time.

Why don't some of you Theresa may haters on here that the real reason you want rid is about leaving the EU.

Theresa may in some eyes on here represents hard brexit or even just leaving the EU and must go now.

I think you're right. If you piss off nearly 50% of the electorate a lot of whom would be natural Tory supporters it's not smart.

Some of these natural tory supporters wanted her as leader but I'm sure she will try bring both sides together,it depends on how hardball the EU wants to be.

Brexit isn't happening. .

stodge said:

HYUFD said:

She was clearly hoping for better but ran a far too risky manifesto with the Dementia Tax and ending free school meals and the triple lock etc which she has now sensibly dumped

Interesting that as usual you witter on about vote shares and explain how May's result was better than Thatcher or Major's. Yes, two problems - elections under FPTP are won by getting bums on benches not by vote share (why not try a good proportional system ?)

On numbers of seats, May has done worse than Thatcher, Major and Cameron. Better than Hague and Howard I'll grant you but that's where we are setting the bar.

Then your ludicrous comment about the manifesto pledges. They were dumped because the DUP wanted them dumped as condition of the agreement. There was also the not insignificant
notion that had May won a small majority there might have been enough rebels in her own party for the measures to have been lost on the floor of the Commons.

another_richard said:

Sean_F said:

another_richard said:

SouthamObserver said:

felix said:

OldKingCole said:

foxinsoxuk said:

FF43 said:

Good comment, however I would say Mrs May was tested late on a major character issue that only became apparent after she became PM. She can't cope at all with situations she doesn't control. Arguably this should preclude her from politics entirely but it certainly makes her unsuitable to be prime minister of a divided country implementing the biggest structural change the country has seen in recent times, and where others mostly decide what's possible.

Home Secretary is mostly about stopping bad things happen so her need to control helped her there

I always thought she was rubbish in her six years at the Home Office. She achieved nothing there.

Apart from upsetting the police and, IIRC, the firemen. Among others.

Can you name any Home/Education/Health Sec who hasn't annoyed the producer interest groups - it is their job to look out for the consumers!

Looking out for the consumer does no involve rendering the service they use unfit for purpose.

And what happens if the service is already unfit for purpose ?

I suspect that a Home Secretary might have her views on the police changed when those same police are engaged in criminal conspiracies against a fellow cabinet minister.

Perhaps. But only a small minority of the public are hostile to the police, and that minority is not going to vote Conservative.

After this year's events, most people see them as their last line of defence against the animals.

I suspect there's a much larger number who are distrustful of the police and that many of them are potential Conservative voters.

HYUFD said:

stodge said:

HYUFD said:

She was clearly hoping for better but ran a far too risky manifesto with the Dementia Tax and ending free school meals and the triple lock etc which she has now sensibly dumped

Interesting that as usual you witter on about vote shares and explain how May's result was better than Thatcher or Major's. Yes, two problems - elections under FPTP are won by getting bums on benches not by vote share (why not try a good proportional system ?)

On numbers of seats, May has done worse than Thatcher, Major and Cameron. Better than Hague and Howard I'll grant you but that's where we are setting the bar.

Then your ludicrous comment about the manifesto pledges. They were dumped because the DUP wanted them dumped as condition of the agreement. There was also the not insignificant
notion that had May won a small majority there might have been enough rebels in her own party for the measures to have been lost on the floor of the Commons.

May actually did better in terms of seats than Cameron 2010 too even if not Cameron 2015, she also did miles better than Major 1997 even if not Major 1992. So the Tories have only done better than May in seats once in 25 years.

May needed a majority to get through tough but arguably fiscally prudent measures, the electorate decided no so they went

Alanbrooke said:

Charles said:

Alanbrooke said:

Charles said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Andrew Marr just got Angela Rayner to admit that Corbyn's promise to pay off student debt was another misleading statement by him. The cost apparently is an eye watering 100 billion.

No, £100 billion is the outstanding debt. Most of which will never be repaid, and the rest will be repaid over many years.

If you write it off then it comes due now (or has to be refinanced)

or you treat it as a balance sheet item and write it off

Some of the debt the government would need to buy back from investors, which would be a cash item.

I don't know the details of how government accounting works (it's even weirder than bank or insurance accounting) but presumably they can't just write it off without accounting for the liability somewhere

do we actually have a national balance sheet ? I didnt think we have

alex. said:

Sean_F said:

Roger said:

I'm sure this will have been posted but they're using the same lawyer who acted for Gina Miller

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/09/theresa-may-dup-deal-legal-challenge-crowdfunded-campaign-good-friday-agreement

There are problems with that claim.

1. I don't see how a Court can direct MP's to vote, or not to vote, in a particular manner.

2. If successful, then it must follow that Northern Irish MP's cannot participate in Parliament. That would seem to breach the principle of consent, which underpins the GFA, and would be highly discriminatory against Northern Ireland's voters.

Presumably also whilst the Government can seek to allocate additional funding to Northern Ireland, technically this can only be achieved with Parliamentary consent?

stodge said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Debbie Abrahams getting roasted by Sophy Ridge on labour's spending pledges. If I was a labour supporter I would be hiding behind the sofa. Absolute car crash and excellent interview technique by Sophy

Yes, apparently according to those who think like you, every interview with every Shadow Minister is a car crash yet Labour still got 40%.

As far as the Labour 2017 Manifesto is concerned, it was rejected by the electorate so to be honest it's not worth worrying about. Labour, and indeed all Opposition parties, have to go back to the beginning and re-think the policies.

There's nothing wrong with spending - the problem has always been on the income side of the balance sheet based on attitudes to taxation (primarily everyone else should pay more but not me).

As for manifesto pledges, given the Conservatives won the election (apparently) they can now go ahead and implement the new adult social care payment policy and see how much can be saved from ending free school meals.

Oh wait...

HYUFD said:

£30 agreed though obviously no pay out either way until 2021

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

£30 agreed though obviously no pay out either way until 2021

Cool.
I hope we can take each other's word on the matter without bothering PtP?

CornishJohn said:

stodge said:

HYUFD said:

She was clearly hoping for better but ran a far too risky manifesto with the Dementia Tax and ending free school meals and the triple lock etc which she has now sensibly dumped

On numbers of seats, May has done worse than Thatcher, Major and Cameron. Better than Hague and Howard I'll grant you but that's where we are setting the bar.

In seats terms only, she has done better than Cameron's first election and worse than Cameron's second election. And on vote share she has beaten him on both. If Corbyn fails to hold his 40% together, which seems likely, we could do very well next time. That would require the handful of plotters to stop undermining the Conservative government. Theresa May never engaged in such disloyalty under previous leaders, and the big egos owe her the same level of duty.