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Telegraph's Ben Brogan says q not why LAB doing well, but why CON badly? http://t.co/stEH68O5IM
See this Aug 1/2 pic.twitter.com/NPiPYxk9LD
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first.0
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Anthony Wells: "I would be surprised if Ukip doesn't come top in the European elections."
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/443718/Business-tycoon-backs-Daily-Express-crusade-on-immigration-as-he-vows-to-bankroll-Ukip0 -
I hope some enterprising journalist is going to ask the FCA how they felt able to approve the members of the Co-op's Board as fit to run a bank.0
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Bodes well for a Presidential style election campaign then..0
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@Cyclefree Odd that the enterprising journalists and experienced commentators like Peston (amongst others) now have 20-20 hindsight over the appointment of Rev Paul Flowers & others on The Co-Op Bank's Board. Big case of selective amnesia on display, says a great deal about the quality of their analysis. If they had thought that the guy wasn't up to the job or was under-qualified, the time to write about it was long before last weekend.
So other than being political hacks what were their special areas of expertise?0 -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25006511
Boles wants a Liberal Conservative Party, coming soon North of the Border, The Unionist Party.0 -
nypost has interesting story claiming the US job numbers were "faked" before the 2012 election.
http://nypost.com/2013/11/18/census-faked-2012-election-jobs-report/
"In the home stretch of the 2012 presidential campaign, from August to September, the unemployment rate fell sharply — raising eyebrows from Wall Street to Washington.
The decline — from 8.1 percent in August to 7.8 percent in September — might not have been all it seemed. The numbers, according to a reliable source, were manipulated."0 -
On topic - the short answer to Brogan is that they're still the same old Tories. Cameron's modernisation project has been shown to be a synthetic PR construct - underneath the Tories still hanker after the old Thatcherite certainties and seem to believe that this alone will deliver them Thatcher-style majorities.0
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I thought it was the National Party of Liberals?dr_spyn said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25006511
Boles wants a Liberal Conservative Party, coming soon North of the Border, The Unionist Party.0 -
The Tories need to compete head on with labour outside of the south. Instead of wasting money campaigning they need to set-up businesses and support functions, like Libraries or local sports team etc, that make a real community impact and change the face of the Tories. After all, labour has hosed money onto these areas to create huge public sector work forces, they will be hard to shift in mindset when the Government honestly has given them so much. Like it or loathe it the Brown strategy for dvide and rule has been a very successful piece of realpolitick.0
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Inner London has a working-age population in which 60% have degrees, much higher than anywhere else in the UK, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics.
The proportion of working-age adults in the UK with a degree has more than doubled in two decades - rising to 38%.
There are now 12 million graduates - compared with three million people who left school without any qualifications, 6.6 million whose highest qualifications are five good GCSEs or equivalents and 6.7 million whose highest qualifications are A-levels.
London's graduate population is three times the proportion in the north-east of England, where 29% have degrees. In Wales, the figure is 33% and 41% in Scotland.
The big picture of the survey shows the relentless rise in graduate numbers. In 1992, only 15% of people had degrees, by 2013 this had reached 38%.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-250024010 -
And they only have themselves to blame. The Tories wilfully threw away two ways in which they could have avoided this fate - a closer alliance with the Lib Dems and the boundary redistribution. Both of these options were available to them in 2010 but in their arrogance and refusal to acknowledge the political realities (ie weakness) of their position they spurned what could prove to have been their last opportunity of winning a parliamentary majority.tim said:@michaelsavage Cameron ally tells Tories to modernise or die http://t.co/DBRrpuYkVx …
"The Conservative Party risks becoming a “rural and suburban redoubt in the South of England” unless it appeals to new voters, one of the Prime Minister’s closest allies has warned."0 -
Liberal National Party...splitters.Millsy said:
I thought it was the National Party of Liberals?dr_spyn said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25006511
Boles wants a Liberal Conservative Party, coming soon North of the Border, The Unionist Party.
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Labour usually leads on likeability questions (which party best represents people like you, which party best represents all sections of society, which party wants the sort of society you want). The Conservatives usually lead on competence questions (which party has the best team of leaders, which party is most willing to take difficult decisions). What made the whole 1993-2005 period unusual was that Labour led across the board.
The usual battle is likeability vs competence.0 -
Well fancy that! The beloved Obama, a simple forger and faker? Surely not!TGOHF said:nypost has interesting story claiming the US job numbers were "faked" before the 2012 election.
http://nypost.com/2013/11/18/census-faked-2012-election-jobs-report/
"In the home stretch of the 2012 presidential campaign, from August to September, the unemployment rate fell sharply — raising eyebrows from Wall Street to Washington.
The decline — from 8.1 percent in August to 7.8 percent in September — might not have been all it seemed. The numbers, according to a reliable source, were manipulated."0 -
Arrogance? The Lib Dems reneged on the deal after explicitly stating Lords reform (which was attempted very badly) was not necessary for boundary reforms.0
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Yes, they actually have CCTV evidence showing Obama manipulating the forms. Well done for getting to the kernel of the issue so quickly.MikeK said:
Well fancy that! The beloved Obama, a simple forger and faker? Surely not!TGOHF said:nypost has interesting story claiming the US job numbers were "faked" before the 2012 election.
http://nypost.com/2013/11/18/census-faked-2012-election-jobs-report/
"In the home stretch of the 2012 presidential campaign, from August to September, the unemployment rate fell sharply — raising eyebrows from Wall Street to Washington.
The decline — from 8.1 percent in August to 7.8 percent in September — might not have been all it seemed. The numbers, according to a reliable source, were manipulated."
Of course he has plenty of forging experience. He started with his birth cert when he was 6.0 -
David Cameron's posh boy image 'undermining fight against Scottish independence'
- Exclusive: Former First Minister Henry McLeish says the Prime Minister is more hated than Margaret Thatcher and will add 5 per cent to support for independence unless he steps back from the campaign... reflects concerns among Unionists that a resurgent Tory Party could drive Scots to support separation from the UK come September 2014.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10459299/David-Camerons-posh-boy-image-undermining-fight-against-Scottish-independence.html
In an interview with The Telegraph, Mr McLeish, who was Labour First Minister of Scotland between October 2000 and November 2001, warned that Cameron was undermining the Better Together campaign.
... "Cameron is the big risky factor for the Unionist camp. He won't be seen much in Scotland. His polices are quite damaging ... [they] are perceived as being quite poisonous," Mr McLeish said.
"He has got to take less of a role and I am convinced that he will be forced to take less of a role ... It is a very complex, fluid situation in Scotland and that is when the Cameron factor becomes quite crucial."
..."I don't throw these terms around lightly. [Cameron] is illustrative of the worst perceptions of Scots in terms of Toryism, much more beyond Thatcher. I think everything they are doing is anti-welfare, anti-Europe, anti-immigrants, anti-human rights issues.
"He wants to create those common enemies. We don't have those common enemies now in Scotland. The enemy for most Scots now is the Conservative Party."
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Is it better to be liked or respected?
Giving away sweets and fudge(ing the tought choices) like Labour may make you liked but not respected. Making the tough choices to tackle Labour's mess of an economy we inherited, cut the deficit and ultimately grow the economy as is happening now may not be much like but should be respected.
In mid-term its easy to think about likeability alone. At the election respect and competence comes into play too.0 -
Is that why Cameron and Osborne lost their huge mid-term leads in the run-up to the 2010 GE?Philip_Thompson said:
In mid-term its easy to think about likeability alone. At the election respect and competence comes into play too.
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Yes. "Cling on to nurse for fear of worse". The Tories were being honest about the need for cuts while Labour was dismissing it as "too far too fast". Labour had the track record of experience in government, while Cameron and Osborne didn't and so a major fear factor of the unknown.Neil said:
Is that why Cameron and Osborne lost their huge mid-term leads in the run-up to the 2010 GE?Philip_Thompson said:
In mid-term its easy to think about likeability alone. At the election respect and competence comes into play too.
That is not their now for next time.0 -
But if the Tories really wanted the boundary changes - which in my view should have been their overriding priority, nothing is more important for them - they would have given ground on Lords reform to keep the Lib Dems on board. After all, Lords reform is an issue of supreme unimportance to about 99% of the voters. The fact they did not even try to do this suggests something - if not arrogance, stupidity perhaps?Morris_Dancer said:Arrogance? The Lib Dems reneged on the deal after explicitly stating Lords reform (which was attempted very badly) was not necessary for boundary reforms.
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I think one needs to be very cautious about comparisons such as this. Oppositions and government parties are in very different circumstances. In particular, saying you 'like' an opposition party is an easy thing to say, and saying you like the party but not the leader might be a way of saying you like some idealised version of the party which doesn't exist and probably could never exist - and which might not be the same as the idealised version which another respondent 'likes'.
Experience suggests that the best guide to UK elections is simply the headline voting intention figures from reputable pollsters.0 -
@anothernick
'could prove to have been their last opportunity of winning a parliamentary majority.'
Seem to remember exactly the same being said about the Labour party on 1992..0 -
Almost all oppositions lose momentum, and governments regain ground.Neil said:Is that why Cameron and Osborne lost their huge mid-term leads in the run-up to the 2010 GE?
Which is why it's pretty reasonable to conclude that a gap that has already shrunk by 4-8 points in the last twelve months will carry on shrinking if there is no economic relapse.
Niceness counts for nothing when it is accompanied by numptiness.0 -
The Tories should have agreed to a cack-handed mess of Lords reform that would last indefinitely and possibly for centuries granting unbelievable 15 year elected so-called "mandates" in order to get a temporary, one-off boundary reform that would be out of date and being replaced within a decade?anothernick said:
But if the Tories really wanted the boundary changes - which in my view should have been their overriding priority, nothing is more important for them - they would have given ground on Lords reform to keep the Lib Dems on board. After all, Lords reform is an issue of supreme unimportance to about 99% of the voters. The fact they did not even try to do this suggests something - if not arrogance, stupidity perhaps?Morris_Dancer said:Arrogance? The Lib Dems reneged on the deal after explicitly stating Lords reform (which was attempted very badly) was not necessary for boundary reforms.
The Tories did agree to make changes for boundary reforms (despite boundary reforms already being due and scheduled). They agreed to a referendum which was in the same paragraph of the agreement as the reforms. That the LDs desire for reform was comprehensively defeated by two-thirds of the public is not the Tories fault.0 -
Absolutely - often by the same 'experts' who a few weeks previously had been forecasting a Kinnock majority.john_zims said:@anothernick
'could prove to have been their last opportunity of winning a parliamentary majority.'
Seem to remember exactly the same being said about the Labour party on 1992..0 -
Brand Contamination in Scotland Part II
'Ukip could be the midwife of Scottish independence'
- A triumph by the anti-EU party in European elections would propel Tory Eurosceptics into overdrive and swell the nationalist vote in ScotlandArguably, the Better Togethers (whom I support) have turned the real issue on its head. That is: what to do about England? It is the English, thrashing around since 1945 in search of an identity, who pose the biggest threat to the EU with their threats to quit, to try and rewrite the treaties, to veto further integration, to turn the union into a mere free trade zone. One undeniable consequence of this drive – whether led by Nigel Farage and Ukip or the greater Switzerland wing of the Tories – is that it is hastening the break-up of Britain/the UK.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/19/ukip-scottish-independence-anti-eu-european-elections-scotland
As Charlie Jeffery, professor of politics at Edinburgh university and co-author of the recent IPPR study, England and its two unions, put it recently: "English Euroscepticism is more of a challenge to the UK than the independence movement in Scotland."
It's not just that English and Scottish attitudes to the EU are reverse images of each other: a majority of Scots favour staying in the EU while a majority of the English would quit if given the choice. Almost two-thirds of Scots would want an independent Scotland to be a full EU member. In another survey 44% said they would vote for independence (higher than current polls suggest) if the UK looked like quitting the EU. With what Jeffery and his team call "an emerging English political identity", the 55 million-plus south of the border are pushing the UK towards the exit door in Brussels.0 -
It's the same way that Labour may lose their indifferent mid term leads now!Neil said:
Is that why Cameron and Osborne lost their huge mid-term leads in the run-up to the 2010 GE?Philip_Thompson said:
In mid-term its easy to think about likeability alone. At the election respect and competence comes into play too.
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Leave the passports at home if you are going to the PB gathering.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2509837/Teenager-went-drunken-night-Oldham-woke-PARIS.html0 -
You illustrate my point very well - the detail of the HoL reform is unimportant to most people - the HoL has very little power anyway, and if the Tories won a majority they could do what they liked with the HoL at that point. All they had to do was to give enough ground to keep the Lib Dems on board. As it is the Tories have left themselves in a position in which it is far from clear that they can ever win a majority on their own again, as some of them, pace Mr Boles, are beginning to realise.Philip_Thompson said:
The Tories should have agreed to a cack-handed mess of Lords reform that would last indefinitely and possibly for centuries granting unbelievable 15 year elected so-called "mandates" in order to get a temporary, one-off boundary reform that would be out of date and being replaced within a decade?anothernick said:
But if the Tories really wanted the boundary changes - which in my view should have been their overriding priority, nothing is more important for them - they would have given ground on Lords reform to keep the Lib Dems on board. After all, Lords reform is an issue of supreme unimportance to about 99% of the voters. The fact they did not even try to do this suggests something - if not arrogance, stupidity perhaps?Morris_Dancer said:Arrogance? The Lib Dems reneged on the deal after explicitly stating Lords reform (which was attempted very badly) was not necessary for boundary reforms.
The Tories did agree to make changes for boundary reforms (despite boundary reforms already being due and scheduled). They agreed to a referendum which was in the same paragraph of the agreement as the reforms. That the LDs desire for reform was comprehensively defeated by two-thirds of the public is not the Tories fault.0 -
Mr Peston wrote a rather interesting book about the impending financial crash - and appeared brimming with 2020 hindsight. Shame he never told us about it at the time...
I read it on the train when it came out and was open-mouthed at what he revealed then but never told us on the BBC.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Britain-Britains-elite-changing-lives/dp/0340839422
"As Robert Peston shows in his fascinating new book, the seeds for the collapse of Northern Rock and the upheavals in the financial markets were sown years before. WHO RUNS BRITAIN? is the first time anyone has drawn all the threads together to weave a story thats rich in extraordinary characters and outrageous feats of economic bravado"dr_spyn said:@Cyclefree Odd that the enterprising journalists and experienced commentators like Peston (amongst others) now have 20-20 hindsight over the appointment of Rev Paul Flowers & others on The Co-Op Bank's Board. Big case of selective amnesia on display, says a great deal about the quality of their analysis. If they had thought that the guy wasn't up to the job or was under-qualified, the time to write about it was long before last weekend.
So other than being political hacks what were their special areas of expertise?0 -
Plato, long time not here ! Where were you ?Plato said:Mr Peston wrote a rather interesting book about the impending financial crash - and appeared brimming with 2020 hindsight. Shame he never told us about it at the time...
I read it on the train when it came out and was open-mouthed at what he revealed then but never told us on the BBC.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Britain-Britains-elite-changing-lives/dp/0340839422
"As Robert Peston shows in his fascinating new book, the seeds for the collapse of Northern Rock and the upheavals in the financial markets were sown years before. WHO RUNS BRITAIN? is the first time anyone has drawn all the threads together to weave a story thats rich in extraordinary characters and outrageous feats of economic bravado"dr_spyn said:@Cyclefree Odd that the enterprising journalists and experienced commentators like Peston (amongst others) now have 20-20 hindsight over the appointment of Rev Paul Flowers & others on The Co-Op Bank's Board. Big case of selective amnesia on display, says a great deal about the quality of their analysis. If they had thought that the guy wasn't up to the job or was under-qualified, the time to write about it was long before last weekend.
So other than being political hacks what were their special areas of expertise?0 -
Surely its now the EU Party of Liberals?Millsy said:
I thought it was the National Party of Liberals?dr_spyn said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25006511
Boles wants a Liberal Conservative Party, coming soon North of the Border, The Unionist Party.0 -
spot on.Cityunslicker said:
The Tories need to compete head on with labour outside of the south. Instead of wasting money campaigning they need to set-up businesses and support functions, like Libraries or local sports team etc, that make a real community impact and change the face of the Tories. After all, labour has hosed money onto these areas to create huge public sector work forces, they will be hard to shift in mindset when the Government honestly has given them so much. Like it or loathe it the Brown strategy for dvide and rule has been a very successful piece of realpolitick.
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Cling on to '92 dreams ! Is that what your straw is called ?RichardNabavi said:
Absolutely - often by the same 'experts' who a few weeks previously had been forecasting a Kinnock majority.john_zims said:@anothernick
'could prove to have been their last opportunity of winning a parliamentary majority.'
Seem to remember exactly the same being said about the Labour party on 1992..0 -
The bit you missed out of McCleish's analysis was: "David Cameron is doing irreconcilable damage to the campaign to defeat Scottish independence and must step back before it its too late, the former First Minister of Scotland has said."Stuart_Dickson said:David Cameron's posh boy image 'undermining fight against Scottish independence'
How can Cameron 'step back' from something he's barely involved in?
As I commented, when I posted the article a couple of hours ago, I think it says more about Labour squeamishness in working with the Tories in 'Better Together' than anything else....really smart, presenting those in favour of the union as divided.....
Oooh, please Sir! It wasn't us sir! We didn't lose the Union - it was that nasty David Cameron, who was never here.....0 -
Not at all. My point - had you bothered to read it - was about the fallibility of so-called experts and the folly of extrapolating the current situation too far into the future. Indeed, I made exactly the same point when some people were writing off the Labour Party in 2011, and urged PBers to bet on Labour whilst the price was very attractive. You did follow my advice, I imagine?surbiton said:
Cling on to '92 dreams ! Is that what your straw is called ?RichardNabavi said:
Absolutely - often by the same 'experts' who a few weeks previously had been forecasting a Kinnock majority.john_zims said:@anothernick
'could prove to have been their last opportunity of winning a parliamentary majority.'
Seem to remember exactly the same being said about the Labour party on 1992..0 -
BREAK Ex Co-op bank's Paul Flowers resigned from Bradford Council in 2011 after inappropriate adult content found on his computerTGOHF said:What's left to be "interesting" ?
Gerard Tubb @TubbSky 8m
An interesting development on the Paul Flowers story soon
Pretty tame by what we've had so far today.....anyone know why he left Rochdale?
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It used to be said that the labour party owed more to Methodism than Marx.
Is it still true?
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This has all been hilarious to watch today.
Why oh why! After all, the Tories get everything right, and Labour everything wrong, and David Cameron is a towering figure, a great PM! Why oh why aren't we more popular?!
Talk about a collective lack of self-awareness.0 -
The scandal-hit former boss of the Co-op bank previously quit as a councillor over "inappropriate" content found on his computer.
http://news.sky.com/story/1170826/flowers-quit-council-over-adult-content
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He secretly voted UKIP once?CarlottaVance said:
BREAK Ex Co-op bank's Paul Flowers resigned from Bradford Council in 2011 after inappropriate adult content found on his computerTGOHF said:What's left to be "interesting" ?
Gerard Tubb @TubbSky 8m
An interesting development on the Paul Flowers story soon
Pretty tame by what we've had so far today.....anyone know why he left Rochdale?0 -
Spain to take the role of Argentina?
'UK Foreign Office says it has summoned Spain's ambassador after "significant activity" by Spanish ship off Gibraltar'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-250082370 -
Is the entire Co op brand in danger ? Ratner moment or passing embarrassment ?0
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Missing out on stories on drug crazed Minister of Religion's recreational activities must be hell for the ex NOW journalists not to be able to cover such stuff.0
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I think Paul Flowers and Brian Coleman should get it on... perfect for each other.0
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As for the "process of decontamination".
As others have said, it never really started. It was always synthetic PR from Cameron. It needs to start when they're back in opposition, or the voters who elect the next Tory majority Government might not even have been alive during the last one.
They need to shed their backward looking Thatcher hankering once and for all, ditch their blind-faith Rightwing worship of "the market" and ideological purity, get their heads out of the arses of vested interests and batty Rightwing thinktanks , and get back to pragmatic, compassionate and broad-based Conservatism.
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Sky News has learned that he resigned as a Bradford councillor in 2011 after "inappropriate but not illegal adult content" was found on a council computer he had handed in for service.
Testing the firewalls and competence of IT department excuse coming soon.0 -
So far as I can tell, the only thing missing that could make this the perfect tabloid story is a missing Royal connection. Or X-factor, which is much the same at present.dr_spyn said:
Missing out on stories on drug crazed Minister of Religion's recreational activities must be hell for the ex NOW journalists not to be able to cover such stuff.
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Should they copy Labour and have blind faith Leftwing worship of "unions" and public sector purity, of vested union interests and batty leftwing thinktanks ?R0berts said:ditch their blind-faith Rightwing worship of "the market" and ideological purity, get their heads out of the arses of vested interests and batty Rightwing thinktanks
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No.TGOHF said:
Should they copy Labour and have blind faith Leftwing worship of "unions" and public sector purity, of vested union interests and batty leftwing thinktanks ?R0berts said:ditch their blind-faith Rightwing worship of "the market" and ideological purity, get their heads out of the arses of vested interests and batty Rightwing thinktanks
Next.0 -
@Foxinsoxuk or links to Op Utree or ongoing trial at Central Criminal Court or Vile James (dec.). -then BINGO.0
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I agree one party in hock to the unions is enough.R0berts said:
No.TGOHF said:
Should they copy Labour and have blind faith Leftwing worship of "unions" and public sector purity, of vested union interests and batty leftwing thinktanks ?R0berts said:ditch their blind-faith Rightwing worship of "the market" and ideological purity, get their heads out of the arses of vested interests and batty Rightwing thinktanks
Next.
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No - its embarrassing - and the people who should be worrying are any left in senior positions who may not be appropriately qualified - but the movement will carry on - as the chap from Ethical Consumer put it:TGOHF said:Is the entire Co op brand in danger ? Ratner moment or passing embarrassment ?
To some degree the let down happened before the Paul Flowers stuff – that was just the icing in the cake – people were already let down by selling it to American hedge funds.
http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-11-18/labour-suspends-ex-bank-chief/
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G4S in a bit of bother.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25001800
Might lower their chances of work in Glasgow next summer.0 -
There was an alternative source of equity that they turned down?CarlottaVance said:people were already let down by selling it to American hedge funds
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Dropping the obsessive hatred and default demonisation of unions would be an important part of the process of Tory modernisation / decontamination if they ever want to win again.TGOHF said:
I agree one party in hock to the unions is enough.R0berts said:
No.TGOHF said:
Should they copy Labour and have blind faith Leftwing worship of "unions" and public sector purity, of vested union interests and batty leftwing thinktanks ?R0berts said:ditch their blind-faith Rightwing worship of "the market" and ideological purity, get their heads out of the arses of vested interests and batty Rightwing thinktanks
Next.
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The opening ceremony hasn't sold out yet. The diving featuring Tom Daley has though - but that's in Edinburgh..dr_spyn said:G4S in a bit of bother.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25001800
Might lower their chances of work in Glasgow next summer.0 -
It's a wonder that Dave and Hague can look any Briton in the eye while this farrago of nonsense is allowed to carry on.
http://order-order.com/2013/11/19/war-video-of-spanish-disastrous-invasion-and-retreat/0 -
Presumably JohnLoony has block-booked.TGOHF said:
The opening ceremony hasn't sold out yet. The diving featuring Tom Daley has though - but that's in Edinburgh..dr_spyn said:G4S in a bit of bother.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25001800
Might lower their chances of work in Glasgow next summer.0 -
It's not the Unions - its their fatcat leaders on six figure salaries using the members and their cash for Marxist aims - using dubious tactics...R0berts said:
Dropping the obsessive hatred and default demonisation of unions would be an important part of the process of Tory modernisation / decontamination if they ever want to win again.TGOHF said:
I agree one party in hock to the unions is enough.R0berts said:
No.TGOHF said:
Should they copy Labour and have blind faith Leftwing worship of "unions" and public sector purity, of vested union interests and batty leftwing thinktanks ?R0berts said:ditch their blind-faith Rightwing worship of "the market" and ideological purity, get their heads out of the arses of vested interests and batty Rightwing thinktanks
Next.
You part of the leverage squad or do you just support their methods ?
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Slightly tangential - but the queen opened the COOP's new £105m HQ on Thursday and got a gift from Len Wardle:foxinsoxuk said:So far as I can tell, the only thing missing that could make this the perfect tabloid story is a missing Royal connection. Or X-factor, which is much the same at present.
dr_spyn said:Missing out on stories on drug crazed Minister of Religion's recreational activities must be hell for the ex NOW journalists not to be able to cover such stuff.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/ex-co-operative-boss-rev-paul-flowers-6312363
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A couple of years ago an organisation that I know of was marketing a small retail supermarket space on the ground floor of a new development in London. An agent was employed, a target rent agreed and marketing began. Eventually there were two serious bidders, the Co-Op and one of the big 4 supermarket chains. The bids shot up to almost double the target rent and just as the Co-Op seemed about to lose out they suddenly upped their offer even further and added a premium (which had not been sought) on top. So they got the space, but at a price which was probably at least 50% above the going rate. If this is typical of how they do business then they're f*cked IMO.TGOHF said:Is the entire Co op brand in danger ? Ratner moment or passing embarrassment ?
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good griefTGOHF said:
It's not the Unions - its their fatcat leaders on six figure salaries using the members and their cash for Marxist aims - using dubious tactics...R0berts said:
Dropping the obsessive hatred and default demonisation of unions would be an important part of the process of Tory modernisation / decontamination if they ever want to win again.TGOHF said:
I agree one party in hock to the unions is enough.R0berts said:
No.TGOHF said:
Should they copy Labour and have blind faith Leftwing worship of "unions" and public sector purity, of vested union interests and batty leftwing thinktanks ?R0berts said:ditch their blind-faith Rightwing worship of "the market" and ideological purity, get their heads out of the arses of vested interests and batty Rightwing thinktanks
Next.
You part of the leverage squad or do you just support their methods ?0 -
Farage would be bombing Madrid by now, I suppose?MikeK said:It's a wonder that Dave and Hague can look any Briton in the eye while this farrago of nonsense is allowed to carry on.
http://order-order.com/2013/11/19/war-video-of-spanish-disastrous-invasion-and-retreat/0 -
I remember during the Falklands war in the Commons bar a Labour MP was heard to demand that we 'show the Argies by dropping a big one on Rio' 'Indeed, but won't it upset the Brazilians?' came the reply.....RichardNabavi said:
Farage would be bombing Madrid by now, I suppose?MikeK said:It's a wonder that Dave and Hague can look any Briton in the eye while this farrago of nonsense is allowed to carry on.
http://order-order.com/2013/11/19/war-video-of-spanish-disastrous-invasion-and-retreat/
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The Tories need their Kinnock, Smith and Blair.
I'm not sure David Cameron is any of those. Kinnock, at a stretch.0 -
General Election @UKELECTIONS2015
Seventeen members of the shadow front bench are members of the Co-operative Party, including Ed Balls, the Shadow Chancellor0 -
No, thank heaven, he's not a windbag, a provincial solicitor, or a con-merchant.R0berts said:The Tories need their Kinnock, Smith and Blair.
I'm not sure David Cameron is any of those.0 -
Interesting snippet from Peston's latest Blog:
PS. I am told Mr Flowers used his platform as Co-op chairman to increase his influence with senior members of the Labour Party. He was on a finance and industry advisory group set up by the Labour leader, Ed Miliband.
After Miliband's initiative to distance the Labour Party from the unions, one has to wonder whether the Co-Op might be the next part of the movement to float away.0 -
Direct links to organisations with millions of members are an electoral asset rather than hindrance. Why on earth would anyone throw them away?david_herdson said:
After Miliband's initiative to distance the Labour Party from the unions, one has to wonder whether the Co-Op might be the next part of the movement to float away.0 -
Don't be silly. However, I'm sure the Spanish would deal with Britain a bit more respectfully if Farrage was in charge.RichardNabavi said:
Farage would be bombing Madrid by now, I suppose?MikeK said:It's a wonder that Dave and Hague can look any Briton in the eye while this farrago of nonsense is allowed to carry on.
http://order-order.com/2013/11/19/war-video-of-spanish-disastrous-invasion-and-retreat/0 -
Good question, better ask Ed why he plans to.Neil said:
Direct links to organisations with millions of members are an electoral asset rather than hindrance. Why on earth would anyone throw them away?david_herdson said:
After Miliband's initiative to distance the Labour Party from the unions, one has to wonder whether the Co-Op might be the next part of the movement to float away.0 -
So what on earth are you going on about, other than your usual carping? What precisely do you want Hague and Cameron to do that they're not doing? Come on, let's hear it.MikeK said:Don't be silly. However, I'm sure the Spanish would deal with Britain a bit more respectfully if Farrage was in charge.
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City am already calling for the Co op to de politicise...
http://www.cityam.com/article/1384827995/there-nothing-worse-self-righteousness-business
"Bizarrely the Co-op, now partly owned by hedge funds, is still making donations to the Labour party – it should stop them immediately; the fact that it is launching a root and branch review of the way it operates is welcome, if belated."
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New Board at Co-Op happy to oversee move to new building, over expansion of banking, ambitious merger policy, and then have fall out over a multitude of failings due to inexperienced over tired and emotional ex Chairman. Hubris before nemesis.0
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He doesnt.RichardNabavi said:
Good question, better ask Ed why he plans to.Neil said:
Direct links to organisations with millions of members are an electoral asset rather than hindrance. Why on earth would anyone throw them away?david_herdson said:
After Miliband's initiative to distance the Labour Party from the unions, one has to wonder whether the Co-Op might be the next part of the movement to float away.0 -
Given the deep doo doo the bank is in I'd be amazed if still part of the group in 12 months time.dr_spyn said:New Board at Co-Op happy to oversee move to new building, over expansion of banking, ambitious merger policy, and then have fall out over a multitude of failings due to inexperienced over tired and emotional ex Chairman. Hubris before nemesis.
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Eh? Who said anything about moral high ground? John Smith was a person of great integrity, like most provincial solicitors are for that matter. But he wasn't exactly the most charismatic of politicians.tim said:A PR man who got his job through Lady Astors palace connections and couldn't even beat Brown while relentlessly using his family to lie about the NHS has the moral high ground over John Smith.
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Yes, that's what I think.Neil said:He doesnt.
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That is one of the few pieces of ideology left that resonate with many voters. You seem to be suggesting the Tories ape Labour ideals. We need parties who offer different visions.R0berts said:
Dropping the obsessive hatred and default demonisation of unions would be an important part of the process of Tory modernisation / decontamination if they ever want to win again.TGOHF said:
I agree one party in hock to the unions is enough.R0berts said:
No.TGOHF said:
Should they copy Labour and have blind faith Leftwing worship of "unions" and public sector purity, of vested union interests and batty leftwing thinktanks ?R0berts said:ditch their blind-faith Rightwing worship of "the market" and ideological purity, get their heads out of the arses of vested interests and batty Rightwing thinktanks
Next.
The Tories have the 'Thatcher' legacy which imperils them in North and Scotland - we will find out in 2015 if Labour have a similar 'Brown' legacy re financial incompetence - my hunch is the north-south divide has become a chasm as Northern voters, logically, see public sector jobs and make work programmes provided by a Labour government as better than the dole of Thatcher. In the South, they see the costs of this in tax rises and vote accordingly.
So betting wise, we can forget a Tory re-surgence in the North and also expect Labour to under-perform in southern marginals under the Ed's leaderhsip. The midlands and london boroughs will be the only real battleground where straight blue/red contests will be hard to call0 -
It's not a case of what anyone thinks - it's a matter of record what Ed intends to do regarding the relationship between members of affiliated trade unions and the Labour party.RichardNabavi said:0 -
Curious that they didn't mention it at the time. The impetus for his resignation then was given as 'family reasons'. Curious also that they've chosen to mention it now. Revenge best served cold, perhaps, now that he's lost all influence and reputation, and the political risks of doing so are much diluted?CarlottaVance said:
BREAK Ex Co-op bank's Paul Flowers resigned from Bradford Council in 2011 after inappropriate adult content found on his computerTGOHF said:What's left to be "interesting" ?
Gerard Tubb @TubbSky 8m
An interesting development on the Paul Flowers story soon
Pretty tame by what we've had so far today.....anyone know why he left Rochdale?
I have to say, I find the whole thing quite bizarre. It's the first time I've seen a political scandal on this level where I've known one of those involved. I worked fairly closely with Flowers for a while on Bradford Council, when I chaired the Health Scrutiny Committee and he was the Labour spokesman on it (or possibly someone else was technically the spokesman but he was clearly the dynamic factor in that group). It was only for a year, in 2002-3 before I stood down at the end of my term, but he struck me as a forceful but thoughtful individual; not one to be crossed lightly but not bull-headed either. A lack of self-confidence, however, was not one of his weaknesses. An excess of it, on the other hand, may well have been.0 -
The group donate to the Co op party who also donate to Labour .Neil said:
Isnt it the Coop Bank that is partly owned by hedge funds but the Coop Group (which is owned by its members) that is making donations to Labour?TGOHF said:
Bizarrely the Co-op, now partly owned by hedge funds, is still making donations to the Labour party
Details here..
http://unlockdemocracy.org.uk/blog/entry/donor-of-the-week-the-co-operative-group
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They appear to be a mirror of Labours deep seated brand problem all over the south.tim said:
Just what the Tories could've done with in 2010 really, a Tory John Smith (ie a John Major type) would've got a majority against Brown, whereas Cameron/Osborne blew it.RichardNabavi said:
Eh? Who said anything about moral high ground? John Smith was a person of great integrity, like most provincial solicitors are for that matter. But he wasn't exactly the most charismatic of politicians.tim said:A PR man who got his job through Lady Astors palace connections and couldn't even beat Brown while relentlessly using his family to lie about the NHS has the moral high ground over John Smith.
Still no one has addressed the Tories deep seated brand problem which is very heartening.
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The coke cant have helped.david_herdson said:A lack of self-confidence, however, was not one of his weaknesses. An excess of it, on the other hand, may well have been.
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Come to think of it, a John Smith-type figure is exactly what Labour needed post 2010 - someone solid, sensible, responsible and decent, free of gimmicks. Unfortunately none of the five candidates really fitted the bill. Ed might not lose the election, but it won't take long after that before Labour realises its mistake. In fact, they already know it, don't they? They've just stopped saying it.tim said:
Just what the Tories could've done with in 2010 really,0
