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  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    edited June 2017

    When the coalition took office in 2010, most people recognised that the economy was in a steep dive and that sharp spending cuts had to be made because investors would stop lending to the government.

    That's when we should have cut public sector salaries by 5%-10% depending on the level. Plus slashed government spending on everything else by 5%.

    That way we would have eliminated the deficit within a couple of years at a time when people could see it was necessary.

    Now we still have a deficit of £50bn a year and few people think it is a problem (mistakenly) so it is harder to correct the problem.

    IMF here we come.


    The LDs would never have allowed them to make those cuts.

  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited June 2017
    https://twitter.com/stellacreasy/status/880412734843736064
    Also - well done Stella Creasy. Was so pleased to see the notification on my phone that the government intends to fund abortions for women from Northern Ireland.

    This is what being a progressive should be, not admiring Hugo Chavez and believing Julian Assange and RT.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001

    https://twitter.com/stellacreasy/status/880412734843736064
    Also - well done Stella Creasy. Was so pleased to see the notification on my phone that the government intends to fund abortions for women from Northern Ireland.

    This is what being a progressive should be, not admiring Hugo Chavez and believing Julian Assange and RT.

    A ray of hope that we could get a HOC that works on consensus - also well done Stella
  • When the coalition took office in 2010, most people recognised that the economy was in a steep dive and that sharp spending cuts had to be made because investors would stop lending to the government.

    That's when we should have cut public sector salaries by 5%-10% depending on the level. Plus slashed government spending on everything else by 5%.

    That way we would have eliminated the deficit within a couple of years at a time when people could see it was necessary.

    Now we still have a deficit of £50bn a year and few people think it is a problem (mistakenly) so it is harder to correct the problem.

    IMF here we come.

    Do people seriously think that cuts rather than stimulus would have been a sensible step during the economic crash?!

    Seems like the economics of the mad house to me...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PolhomeEditor: Looks like big Labour rebellion as Chuka Umunna's amendment to Queen's Speech on Brexit and single market membership falls by 322 to 101.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,281
    Chuka amendment:

    101-322

    One Con MP must have gone for a coffee.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    When the coalition took office in 2010, most people recognised that the economy was in a steep dive and that sharp spending cuts had to be made because investors would stop lending to the government.

    That's when we should have cut public sector salaries by 5%-10% depending on the level. Plus slashed government spending on everything else by 5%.

    That way we would have eliminated the deficit within a couple of years at a time when people could see it was necessary.

    Now we still have a deficit of £50bn a year and few people think it is a problem (mistakenly) so it is harder to correct the problem.

    IMF here we come.

    Do people seriously think that cuts rather than stimulus would have been a sensible step during the economic crash?!

    Seems like the economics of the mad house to me...
    It seemed to work in Ireland and Spain...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    322 ! lol Who was the Tory abstainer
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    This appears to be a new game....where's wally insert MP who got stuck in the bog.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,008
    "Dozens of Conservative MPs have urged Andrea Leadsom to run for the party leadership" - according to a leaked copy of her current cv.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Mixed message:

    https://twitter.com/Cartoon4sale/status/880444802445299712

    Ulster propping up May....or under her heel.....unlike Osborne to let that pass....

    This is how you do political cartooning

    https://twitter.com/twitonatrain/status/879308946959421440
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    Did Ken decide the Single market amendment was a good time to have a coffee :D ?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001
    Pulpstar said:

    Did Ken decide the Single market amendment was a good time to have a coffee :D ?

    Or Anna
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Pulpstar said:

    Did Ken decide the Single market amendment was a good time to have a coffee :D ?

    Maybe he nodded off at the crucial moment?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841

    Pulpstar said:

    Did Ken decide the Single market amendment was a good time to have a coffee :D ?

    Or Anna
    Clive Lewis managed to miss the pay vote ysterday.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    Ken Clarke and Soubry both voting with government.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @nickeardleybbc: Queen's Speech passes.... just. 323 to 309
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,281
    Main motion:

    323-309

    Identical to yesterday.

    Betfair should now settle:

    - PM after GE
    - Next government
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    The 4:19 vote was NOT 313 Tories + DUP.

    It was 312 Tories + Hermon + DUP.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Scott_P said:

    @nickeardleybbc: Queen's Speech passes.... just. 323 to 309

    Jolly rude of 309 MPs not to offer their humble thanks to Her Majesty for her Gracious Speech.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001
    MikeL said:

    Main motion:

    323-309

    Identical to yesterday.

    Betfair should now settle:

    - PM after GE
    - Next government

    Discipline impressive - full marks to the whips
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,281
    Hermon backing Govt - could become significant if they start losing a few by-elections.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    I have to say, it doesn't look good for Corbyn when around 50 MPs rebel against him re Chuka's amendment while May doesn't suffer anywhere near the same.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Another Corbyn reshuffle commences. Will it finish before the Government collapses?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/mirrorpolitics/status/880468735492071424


    oh dear. :D
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    PM after GE market on BF is suspended. Guess they are about to settle.

    Come on May, resign in the next ten minutes and anoint Hammond.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    The post-election Labour ceasefire didn't last very long.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    Amendment 1 323 was Tories + DUP
    Amendment 2 323 was Tories + DUP - Campbell (East Derry) + Hermon
    Amendment 3 322 was Tories + DUP - Campbell (East Derry)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    HAHA! Corbyn sacking shadow ministers, brilliant.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Scott_P said:
    It's deja vu all over again.

    I wonder how Phillip Collins' new party fundraising is going?
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    .....and it starts again. I have to say, Corbyn has brought this all on himself.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001
    edited June 2017

    PM after GE market on BF is suspended. Guess they are about to settle.

    Come on May, resign in the next ten minutes and anoint Hammond.

    Politics - looks like Corbyn suddenly has problems - and so many think he is a walk over for the next government - 7 days used to be a long time in politics - looks like that may have fo be reviewed down
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    https://twitter.com/stellacreasy/status/880412734843736064
    Also - well done Stella Creasy. Was so pleased to see the notification on my phone that the government intends to fund abortions for women from Northern Ireland.

    This is what being a progressive should be, not admiring Hugo Chavez and believing Julian Assange and RT.

    Amazed this was the case with NI women tbh. I had no idea. So yes, well done Stella Creasy.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    Wonder whatJon Snow thinks to Jezza wanting to leave the single market and customs union? :D
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    tlg86 said:

    HAHA! Corbyn sacking shadow ministers, brilliant.

    This isn't the first time. Remember the Hillary Benn situation?
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    edited June 2017

    Mr. England, first I've heard of Black Type.

    blacktype.bet

    Will take a bet to win £500, more on request. They promise not to ban winners, though I know of one idiot who complained that he was banned and they were a sham etc, turned out he backed both horses in a 2-horse race!

    geoff-banks.com are a proper old school bookmaker as well
    Black Type banned me after I took about £300 off them.
    I've taken way more than that from them without so much as a murmur, were you arbing?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    .....and it starts again. I have to say, Corbyn has brought this all on himself.

    In what way?
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Scott_P said:
    It's deja vu all over again.

    I wonder how Phillip Collins' new party fundraising is going?
    Opposition of chaos ?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited June 2017
    @DPJHodges: So after all that, it's Jeremy Corbyn who faced a mutiny from his troops.

    @paulwaugh: Four Labour frontbenchers sacked/quit for backing @ChukaUmunna Brexit amendment: Zeichner, West, Cadbury, Slaughter.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    BF PM market settled.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,281
    Betfair has moved the "PM after TMay" into the "Next GE" section
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    GIN1138 said:

    Wonder whatJon Snow thinks to Jezza wanting to leave the single market and customs union? :D
    Well, exactly.

    How he does he feel about Corbyn taking the Jacob Rees-Mogg line on Brexit after what he allegedly said at Glastonbury?
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    .....and it starts again. I have to say, Corbyn has brought this all on himself.

    In what way?
    By thinking that he could take a line on Brexit that signifcantly departs from what many Labour MPs think.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @paulwaugh: Looks like Gareth Thomas fired too from front bench. All shad mins warned beforehand to either quit or be sacked if backed Chuka amndment
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    This also shows if we were to ever get PM Corbyn, he wouldn't have easy either. Plently there to tell him to go and do one in regard to some of his more sillier ideas.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Next Gov being Tory minority has paid out on BF.

    Amazing that I managed to scramble on to this at 1am on night of the GE at 3.65 (that's after the exit poll).
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164

    .....and it starts again. I have to say, Corbyn has brought this all on himself.

    In what way?
    By thinking that he could take a line on Brexit that signifcantly departs from what many Labour MPs think.
    Erm - have a look at the manifesto. It's the Labour Remainer Ultras who are in the wrong party.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: Looks like Gareth Thomas fired too from front bench. All shad mins warned beforehand to either quit or be sacked if backed Chuka amndment

    Looks like they see supporting a Soft Brexit as more important then following Corbyn. Good.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Scott_P said:

    Another Corbyn reshuffle commences. Will it finish before the Government collapses?

    Useful to bring a few new faces onto the front bench team.

    Chuka looking like setting himself up to be Remainer in chief for when Brexit goes pear shaped.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    .....and it starts again. I have to say, Corbyn has brought this all on himself.

    In what way?
    By thinking that he could take a line on Brexit that signifcantly departs from what many Labour MPs think.
    Right, although he'd have the same problem if he took a different line. There isn't a consensus in Labour on the subject. It's remarkable that they were able to fudge the issue during the election campaign - that was clever politicking.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    Main Queen Speech.

    Lady Hermon SUPPORTS the government.
    Gregory Campbell (East Derry) absent for the DUP.

    Clive Lewis manages to vote with Labour on this one.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited June 2017
    tlg86 said:

    .....and it starts again. I have to say, Corbyn has brought this all on himself.

    In what way?
    By thinking that he could take a line on Brexit that signifcantly departs from what many Labour MPs think.
    Erm - have a look at the manifesto. It's the Labour Remainer Ultras who are in the wrong party.
    No, Labour have been a pro-EU party for years and years. It's Corbyn who is in the wrong party - Labour is not a Hard Left organisation, yet he and McDonnell are both on the Hard Left.

    The manifesto line on Brexit does not reflect what many Labour MPs think. It by and large reflects the thoughts of Corbyn and McDonnell.

    Corbyn was being unrealistic if he thought that all Labour MPs were going to stick to his line on Brexit.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Scott_P said:

    Another Corbyn reshuffle commences. Will it finish before the Government collapses?

    Useful to bring a few new faces onto the front bench team.

    Chuka looking like setting himself up to be Remainer in chief for when Brexit goes pear shaped.
    They didn't win that many new seats at the election, and he's gone through most of the old PLP.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    I have to say, it doesn't look good for Corbyn when around 50 MPs rebel against him re Chuka's amendment while May doesn't suffer anywhere near the same.

    Corbyn has proved himself an able campaigner during the last few months. However that is a very different set of skills from leading a party, and there is little reason to believe the election campaign has improved his leadership skills one jot.

    All it has done is make it harder for the rebels. But as far as I can tell he is doing nothing to reach out to all corners of the party, and he seems to want them to bow to his will. Today shows that he might find they are unwilling to do so.

    It will be odd if, after the disastrous election for the Conservatives, they end up more united than the Labour party.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164

    tlg86 said:

    .....and it starts again. I have to say, Corbyn has brought this all on himself.

    In what way?
    By thinking that he could take a line on Brexit that signifcantly departs from what many Labour MPs think.
    Erm - have a look at the manifesto. It's the Labour Remainer Ultras who are in the wrong party.
    No, Labour have been a pro-EU party for years and years. It's Corbyn who is in the wrong party - Labour is not a Hard Left organisation, yet he and McDonnell are both on the Hard Left.

    The manifesto line on Brexit does not reflect what many Labour MPs think. It by and large reflects the thoughts of Corbyn and McDonnell.
    Christ, where have you been for the last four weeks? Who the fuck do you think those people were voting for? It certainly wasn't Chuka Umunna.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    tlg86 said:

    .....and it starts again. I have to say, Corbyn has brought this all on himself.

    In what way?
    By thinking that he could take a line on Brexit that signifcantly departs from what many Labour MPs think.
    Erm - have a look at the manifesto. It's the Labour Remainer Ultras who are in the wrong party.
    No, Labour have been a pro-EU party for years and years. It's Corbyn who is in the wrong party - Labour is not a Hard Left organisation, yet he and McDonnell are both on the Hard Left.

    The manifesto line on Brexit does not reflect what many Labour MPs think. It by and large reflects the thoughts of Corbyn and McDonnell.

    Corbyn was being unrealistic if he thought that all Labour MPs were going to stick to his line on Brexit.
    And many of it's voters.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038
    You can't read so much into a vote held as part of Queen's Speech debate. The Commons is still full of Remainers. Half the country are still Remainers. Half of Brexit voters are in favour of the single market. And so on.

    It's still very likely that when we leave the EU it'll hardly be possible to tell the difference.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Scott_P said:

    @nickeardleybbc: Queen's Speech passes.... just. 323 to 309

    Jolly rude of 309 MPs not to offer their humble thanks to Her Majesty for her Gracious Speech.
    Goodness gracious me.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001
    It has been a better week for Theresa and looks like she will stay in place until march 2019
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    .....and it starts again. I have to say, Corbyn has brought this all on himself.

    In what way?
    By thinking that he could take a line on Brexit that signifcantly departs from what many Labour MPs think.
    Right, although he'd have the same problem if he took a different line. There isn't a consensus in Labour on the subject. It's remarkable that they were able to fudge the issue during the election campaign - that was clever politicking.
    Corbyn's big issue is that he did not carve out a clear stance with Labour MPs during EUref. Him barely campaigning at all during EUref was disgraceful - at least Leavers cared about Britain's relationship with the EU, one way or another. Corbyn acted as though the biggest issue of this generation didn't matter. He won't be able to do all that stuff in his manifesto if Brexit were to go wrong.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    GIN1138 said:

    witter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/880467737302224896


    twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/880469459173072896

    I am sure a particular QT panelist this evening will say otherwise....
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    It has been a better week for Theresa and looks like she will stay in place until march 2019

    Good week for Labour then.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    edited June 2017
    Dadge said:

    You can't read so much into a vote held as part of Queen's Speech debate. The Commons is still full of Remainers. Half the country are still Remainers. Half of Brexit voters are in favour of the single market. And so on.

    It's still very likely that when we leave the EU it'll hardly be possible to tell the difference.
    Didn't the British Attitudes Survey say that something like 75% of people thought the UK should leave the EU? Edit: may bad, it was conflated with another question:

    76% of people said the UK should leave the EU or that if it stays the EU's powers should be reduced, up from 65% in 2015
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    tlg86 said:

    .....and it starts again. I have to say, Corbyn has brought this all on himself.

    In what way?
    By thinking that he could take a line on Brexit that signifcantly departs from what many Labour MPs think.
    Erm - have a look at the manifesto. It's the Labour Remainer Ultras who are in the wrong party.
    No, Labour have been a pro-EU party for years and years. It's Corbyn who is in the wrong party - Labour is not a Hard Left organisation, yet he and McDonnell are both on the Hard Left.

    The manifesto line on Brexit does not reflect what many Labour MPs think. It by and large reflects the thoughts of Corbyn and McDonnell.

    Corbyn was being unrealistic if he thought that all Labour MPs were going to stick to his line on Brexit.
    And many of it's voters.
    Many of Labour's voters are also Remainers. That's the trouble - in accquiring some of the Kipper vote as well as Labour Leavers there is now a coalition between them and Remainers that Corbyn has to negotiate.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    tlg86 said:

    .....and it starts again. I have to say, Corbyn has brought this all on himself.

    In what way?
    By thinking that he could take a line on Brexit that signifcantly departs from what many Labour MPs think.
    Erm - have a look at the manifesto. It's the Labour Remainer Ultras who are in the wrong party.
    No, Labour have been a pro-EU party for years and years. It's Corbyn who is in the wrong party - Labour is not a Hard Left organisation, yet he and McDonnell are both on the Hard Left.

    The manifesto line on Brexit does not reflect what many Labour MPs think. It by and large reflects the thoughts of Corbyn and McDonnell.

    Corbyn was being unrealistic if he thought that all Labour MPs were going to stick to his line on Brexit.
    With respect, you really have no right to be dishing out lectures on Corbyn and McDonnell being "far left" and "unelectable", when you evidently want Labour to take a policy position which is far more slavishly pro-Europe than the public is.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    Kuennsberg and the BBC reporting the win as a disaster for May. Eh?
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Alistair said:

    Mixed message:

    https://twitter.com/Cartoon4sale/status/880444802445299712

    Ulster propping up May....or under her heel.....unlike Osborne to let that pass....

    This is how you do political cartooning

    https://twitter.com/twitonatrain/status/879308946959421440

    Is this reference to the Orange party support?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001

    Kuennsberg and the BBC reporting the win as a disaster for May. Eh?

    And not a word about Corbyn sacking front benchers.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited June 2017

    tlg86 said:

    .....and it starts again. I have to say, Corbyn has brought this all on himself.

    In what way?
    By thinking that he could take a line on Brexit that signifcantly departs from what many Labour MPs think.
    Erm - have a look at the manifesto. It's the Labour Remainer Ultras who are in the wrong party.
    No, Labour have been a pro-EU party for years and years. It's Corbyn who is in the wrong party - Labour is not a Hard Left organisation, yet he and McDonnell are both on the Hard Left.

    The manifesto line on Brexit does not reflect what many Labour MPs think. It by and large reflects the thoughts of Corbyn and McDonnell.

    Corbyn was being unrealistic if he thought that all Labour MPs were going to stick to his line on Brexit.
    And many of it's voters.
    Many of Labour's voters are also Remainers. That's the trouble - in accquiring some of the Kipper vote as well as Labour Leavers there is now a coalition between them and Remainers that Corbyn has to negotiate.
    Having been on the doorsteps a fair bit during the campaign, I can assure you that most people whether Remainers or Leavers think a democratic decision has been made, and that Labour needs to respect it by supporting a proper Brexit. It was only because of Corbyn reassuring people that that was the case in the early weeks of the campaign that the rest of Labour's popular policies even got a hearing.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited June 2017
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    .....and it starts again. I have to say, Corbyn has brought this all on himself.

    In what way?
    By thinking that he could take a line on Brexit that signifcantly departs from what many Labour MPs think.
    Erm - have a look at the manifesto. It's the Labour Remainer Ultras who are in the wrong party.
    No, Labour have been a pro-EU party for years and years. It's Corbyn who is in the wrong party - Labour is not a Hard Left organisation, yet he and McDonnell are both on the Hard Left.

    The manifesto line on Brexit does not reflect what many Labour MPs think. It by and large reflects the thoughts of Corbyn and McDonnell.
    Christ, where have you been for the last four weeks? Who the fuck do you think those people were voting for? It certainly wasn't Chuka Umunna.
    Where have you been for the last four weeks?

    Everything I've said is true. Why, you think Labour have become a party full of Hard Brexiteers because Corbyn and McDonnell are leading them?

    You think all Labour voters are Hard Brexiteers, do you? Think again.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Shadow minister Daniel Zeichner has resigned from the frontbench and Corbyn has sacked rebels Catherine West, Rupa Huq, Gareth Thomas, Andy Slaughter and Ruth Cadbury. Jezza showing strong leadership of the opposition against opponents of the government and saboteurs of Brexit. Another Labour reshuffle coming…

    How long will this take?
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    I have to say, it doesn't look good for Corbyn when around 50 MPs rebel against him re Chuka's amendment while May doesn't suffer anywhere near the same.

    Corbyn has proved himself an able campaigner during the last few months. However that is a very different set of skills from leading a party, and there is little reason to believe the election campaign has improved his leadership skills one jot.

    All it has done is make it harder for the rebels. But as far as I can tell he is doing nothing to reach out to all corners of the party, and he seems to want them to bow to his will. Today shows that he might find they are unwilling to do so.

    It will be odd if, after the disastrous election for the Conservatives, they end up more united than the Labour party.
    +1.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Kuennsberg and the BBC reporting the win as a disaster for May. Eh?

    And not a word about Corbyn sacking front benchers.
    Hardly news.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001
    Jonathan said:

    Kuennsberg and the BBC reporting the win as a disaster for May. Eh?

    And not a word about Corbyn sacking front benchers.
    Hardly news.
    In the context of todays votes it is but again it is so frequent I take your point
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    edited June 2017

    Jonathan said:

    Kuennsberg and the BBC reporting the win as a disaster for May. Eh?

    And not a word about Corbyn sacking front benchers.
    Hardly news.
    In the context of todays votes it is but again it is so frequent I take your point
    It's all very socialist. Everyone gets a shot at being in the shadow cabinet.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Well, well, well. I expected Labour to hit trouble but perhaps not this early. Wonder what bobajob's spin will be! Seems like Umunna still has knives out for Corbyn.

    May must be worried about Heidi Allen, she appears to eclipsed Soubry, Wollaston and Morgan as the noisy one to worry about. Days like today reinforce the importance of that DUP deal. Being wounded but being in power and able to fight on is always the best option, and this enemy doesn't look as strong as it did in the last battle.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    Why was Gregory Campbell abstaining ?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    How do we know that this rumour is true>
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    RobD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Kuennsberg and the BBC reporting the win as a disaster for May. Eh?

    And not a word about Corbyn sacking front benchers.
    Hardly news.
    In the context of todays votes it is but again it is so frequent I take your point
    It's all very socialist. Everyone gets a shot at being in the shadow cabinet.
    And promotion not based upon talent...
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Danny565 said:

    tlg86 said:

    .....and it starts again. I have to say, Corbyn has brought this all on himself.

    In what way?
    By thinking that he could take a line on Brexit that signifcantly departs from what many Labour MPs think.
    Erm - have a look at the manifesto. It's the Labour Remainer Ultras who are in the wrong party.
    No, Labour have been a pro-EU party for years and years. It's Corbyn who is in the wrong party - Labour is not a Hard Left organisation, yet he and McDonnell are both on the Hard Left.

    The manifesto line on Brexit does not reflect what many Labour MPs think. It by and large reflects the thoughts of Corbyn and McDonnell.

    Corbyn was being unrealistic if he thought that all Labour MPs were going to stick to his line on Brexit.
    And many of it's voters.
    Many of Labour's voters are also Remainers. That's the trouble - in accquiring some of the Kipper vote as well as Labour Leavers there is now a coalition between them and Remainers that Corbyn has to negotiate.
    Having been on the doorsteps a fair bit during the campaign, I can assure you that most people whether Remainers or Leavers think a democratic decision has been made, and that Labour needs to respect it by supporting a proper Brexit. It was only because of Corbyn reassuring people that that was the case in the early weeks of the campaign that the rest of Labour's popular policies even got a hearing.
    I believe that democratic decision has been made and I'm not in favour of cancelling Brexit. Don't think that just because someone respects the vote that they desire a Hard off the cliff edge Brexit. Even some of the Leavers on this site don't want that.

    Corbyn reassured Kippers, and that's what got them on board - Remainers were not looking for such 'reassurance'.

    There is no consensus in this country on what kind of Brexit we should have.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Shadow minister Daniel Zeichner has resigned from the frontbench and Corbyn has sacked rebels Catherine West, Rupa Huq, Gareth Thomas, Andy Slaughter and Ruth Cadbury. Jezza showing strong leadership of the opposition against opponents of the government and saboteurs of Brexit. Another Labour reshuffle coming…

    How long will this take?

    Ouch. Can understand Zeichner's position. He is MP for Cambridge after all. Strong leadership by Jezza but more enemies made.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    .....and it starts again. I have to say, Corbyn has brought this all on himself.

    In what way?
    By thinking that he could take a line on Brexit that signifcantly departs from what many Labour MPs think.
    Erm - have a look at the manifesto. It's the Labour Remainer Ultras who are in the wrong party.
    No, Labour have been a pro-EU party for years and years. It's Corbyn who is in the wrong party - Labour is not a Hard Left organisation, yet he and McDonnell are both on the Hard Left.

    The manifesto line on Brexit does not reflect what many Labour MPs think. It by and large reflects the thoughts of Corbyn and McDonnell.
    Christ, where have you been for the last four weeks? Who the fuck do you think those people were voting for? It certainly wasn't Chuka Umunna.
    Where have you been for the last four weeks?

    Everything I've said is true. Why, you think Labour have become a party full of Hard Brexiteers because Corbyn and McDonnell are leading them?

    You think all Labour voters are Hard Brexiteers, do you? Think again.
    You said "Labour is not a Hard Left organisation". Oh yes it is.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    Corbyn is both hard left and hard Brexit.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Danny565 said:

    tlg86 said:

    .....and it starts again. I have to say, Corbyn has brought this all on himself.

    In what way?
    By thinking that he could take a line on Brexit that signifcantly departs from what many Labour MPs think.
    Erm - have a look at the manifesto. It's the Labour Remainer Ultras who are in the wrong party.
    No, Labour have been a pro-EU party for years and years. It's Corbyn who is in the wrong party - Labour is not a Hard Left organisation, yet he and McDonnell are both on the Hard Left.

    The manifesto line on Brexit does not reflect what many Labour MPs think. It by and large reflects the thoughts of Corbyn and McDonnell.

    Corbyn was being unrealistic if he thought that all Labour MPs were going to stick to his line on Brexit.
    With respect, you really have no right to be dishing out lectures on Corbyn and McDonnell being "far left" and "unelectable", when you evidently want Labour to take a policy position which is far more slavishly pro-Europe than the public is.
    And with respect, you have no right to be accusing me of things I didn't say - I didn't say that Corbyn and McDonnell were 'unelectable.' I said they were Hard Left, which they ARE.

    Voters have a position of cognitive dissonance on the kind of Brexit they want: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/16/uk-voters-want-single-market-access-and-immigration-controls-poll-finds

    Voters want single market membership AND immigration controls. They think they can have their cake eat it.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540

    Kuennsberg and the BBC reporting the win as a disaster for May. Eh?

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/880472823353012224
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    tlg86 said:



    You said "Labour is not a Hard Left organisation". Oh yes it is.

    No it is not.

    Corbyn and McDonnell don't have controls over Labour's internal structures just yet....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    Kuennsberg and the BBC reporting the win as a disaster for May. Eh?

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/880472823353012224
    To the cult he will still be the messiah, he can do nothing, absolutely nothing, to change their minds.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    edited June 2017
    Ouch......
    @Nigel_Farage
    Corbyn showing his true Brexit colours. He's almost a proper chap.
    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/880476632296960000
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    tlg86 said:



    You said "Labour is not a Hard Left organisation". Oh yes it is.

    No it is not.

    Corbyn and McDonnell don't have controls over Labour's internal structures just yet....
    That must be approaching soon though. Haven't they already been getting likeminded people on the NEC?
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited June 2017


    I believe that democratic decision has been made and I'm not in favour of cancelling Brexit. Don't think that just because someone respects the vote that they desire a Hard off the cliff edge Brexit. Even some of the Leavers on this site don't want that.

    Corbyn reassured Kippers, and that's what got them on board - Remainers were not looking for such 'reassurance'.

    There is no consensus in this country on what kind of Brexit we should have.

    Sorry, but in my view, the public would consider that your preferred way forward would be "cancelling Brexit" to all intents and purposes -- although I don't think most people would have a clue what "the Single Market" was if you said it to them, most people do think controls on immigration are a non-negotiable part of Brexit, which staying in the SM would seem to preclude.

    And a lot of Remain voters certainly were looking for reassurance - loads of them were citing a concern that Labour would overturn Brexit in the first couple of weeks of the campaign as a reason why they felt they couldn't vote for the party, even if they did vote Remain. And if you don't trust my anecdotes, there's been a fair few polls from YouGov and the like which have put the number of people who want to overturn Brexit at about 20-25%.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,224
    Pulpstar said:

    Corbyn is both hard left and hard Brexit.

    Corbyn's position on Brexit is bonkers, but it doesn't matter. He didn't make the mess, so he doesn't have to sort it out - yet.
This discussion has been closed.