I agree with all that, particularly your worries about Cable. My problem is that Swinson is untested and seems a bit lightweight. I think I'm an undecided but probably Cable.
Yes, I do slightly worry about Swinson being strongly linked to things like reducing packaging. Not that I'm against reducing packaging, just I do actually want to hear a convincing, broader articulation of her values and vision.
I don't really see the appeal of Cable as leader (although, as I say, I like him and am very pleased he's back). The party needs reinventing, even rebranding. The idea of having him guide the Lib Dems through a couple of years seems a pointless displacement activity (yes the maths means the LDs are arguably more relevant to Brexit etc than their 12 seats would suggest... but they are still a distant fourth party). The idea of a 79 year old ex-cabinet minister being the fresh and exciting choice for moderates in 2022 seems outlandish.
He won't stand in 2022. I would hope he would hand over to a fresh and exciting choice in about two years time when the LibDems have had the time to reinvent and rebrand out of the national shambles of Brexit. If there is an election in the next two years, then Cable is a credible leader. Perhaps Swinson will shine in the hustings, though Cable wants to foreshorten them in case there is a general election in the autumn.
I don't suppose it has occurred to anyone, particularly the media, that the reason Theresa May was advised not to meet residents yesterday because of security fears.
Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth The Second and his Royal Highness Prince Andrew were not put off by "security fears".The Royals, and Mr Corbyn, have put Mrs May to shame.She so lacks courage she is incapable of getting a grip and must go.Mr Corbyn is ready to serve and must,as a constitutional right, be given the chance to form a minority government based on the exciting Labour manifesto.
I'm not too sure the Duke of Cambridge will be too chuffed to be mistaken for his eldest royal uncle.
Whoever takes over from May has to be trusted on Brexit and to deliver it, or the party will split.
But DD would still be the one to carry out the negotiations.
Whatever is decided on Brexit is now going to be extensively brokered, thanks to Parliament being hung in the way that it is. The views of the Prime Minister on this (and indeed every) subject are going to be less important than for a very long time indeed. In practice, the chief negotiator is going to have more real power on Brexit.
I agree with all that, particularly your worries about Cable. My problem is that Swinson is untested and seems a bit lightweight. I think I'm an undecided but probably Cable.
Yes, I do slightly worry about Swinson being strongly linked to things like reducing packaging. Not that I'm against reducing packaging, just I do actually want to hear a convincing, broader articulation of her values and vision.
I don't really see the appeal of Cable as leader (although, as I say, I like him and am very pleased he's back). The party needs reinventing, even rebranding. The idea of having him guide the Lib Dems through a couple of years seems a pointless displacement activity (yes the maths means the LDs are arguably more relevant to Brexit etc than their 12 seats would suggest... but they are still a distant fourth party). The idea of a 79 year old ex-cabinet minister being the fresh and exciting choice for moderates in 2022 seems outlandish.
He won't stand in 2022. I would hope he would hand over to a fresh and exciting choice in about two years time when the LibDems have had the time to reinvent and rebrand out of the national shambles of Brexit. If there is an election in the next two years, then Cable is a credible leader. Perhaps Swinson will shine in the hustings, though Cable wants to foreshorten them in case there is a general election in the autumn.
I just don't see the point of a caretaker in these circumstances at all. You can't reinvent the brand under a caretaker. And it's not like the LDs are going to carry out a global executive search - they have a choice of 11 MPs (Farron excluded) and realistically three or four.
Chose the best one and crack on. Anything else is procrastination.
Cameron stupidly did not consider what would happen in the event of a Leave vote. He left not because of political norms - that politicians who lose major referendums should resign - but because he didn't want to deal with the responsibility of Brexit.
Correct in both respects, and all the Tories' current troubles stem from this.
Or the QS passes and straight after she'll announce her intention to stand down after a Con leadership election.
Either way I think we'll know whats happening next week...
You're assuming she makes it that far...
Well, it's hard to see her announce her intention to quit over the weekend. That just leaves her with Mon and Tue to get through to get to QS and Con will need someone to present it so...
The political agitation in Kensington is reprehensible. Not for a single moment do I believe that those driving the invasion of the Council offices were the residents of Grenfell House - the victims and their families are being used for political ends. Aided and abetted by the increasingly hysterical voices from Corbyn and the Labour Party who are stoking the situation with their 'demands'
What has happened is a tragedy and we need to find out what happened and why. That needs to happen quickly. Similarly we need to provide for those who have been affected as quickly and efficiently as possible.
Jumping on the outrage bus will do nothing to help those efforts. Violence on the streets is not that answer - no matter what the Shadow Chancellor may believe.
We are seeing a situation that could well end up with the Police being forced to take action to restore order - rather than being part of the relief effort. When Council offices have to be evacuated because they are being invaded - then the relief efforts are disrupted.
Yes, there is real anger - but there is also a lot of politically-aggravated outrage being spouted. Calm heads have to prevail but, at the moment, no-one is giving those voices a chance to be heard.
It is really not helpful when the LOTO suggests the illegal requisition of property as part of the solution. How can rational discussions take place when major political figures are advocating breaking the law?
I agree with all that, particularly your worries about Cable. My problem is that Swinson is untested and seems a bit lightweight. I think I'm an undecided but probably Cable.
Yes, I do slightly worry about Swinson being strongly linked to things like reducing packaging. Not that I'm against reducing packaging, just I do actually want to hear a convincing, broader articulation of her values and vision.
I don't really see the appeal of Cable as leader (although, as I say, I like him and am very pleased he's back). The party needs reinventing, even rebranding. The idea of having him guide the Lib Dems through a couple of years seems a pointless displacement activity (yes the maths means the LDs are arguably more relevant to Brexit etc than their 12 seats would suggest... but they are still a distant fourth party). The idea of a 79 year old ex-cabinet minister being the fresh and exciting choice for moderates in 2022 seems outlandish.
He won't stand in 2022. I would hope he would hand over to a fresh and exciting choice in about two years time when the LibDems have had the time to reinvent and rebrand out of the national shambles of Brexit. If there is an election in the next two years, then Cable is a credible leader. Perhaps Swinson will shine in the hustings, though Cable wants to foreshorten them in case there is a general election in the autumn.
I just don't see the point of a caretaker in these circumstances at all. You can't reinvent the brand under a caretaker. And it's not like the LDs are going to carry out a global executive search - they have a choice of 11 MPs (Farron excluded) and realistically three or four.
Chose the best one and crack on. Anything else is procrastination.
I've just put a small bet on Layla Moran at 160/1. She has lived in Belgium, Greece, Ethiopia, Jamaica and Jordan and speaks four languages including Arabic and Greek. Her father is a British EU Ambassador and her mother is from Jerusalem. She is Palestinian.
The political agitation in Kensington is reprehensible. Not for a single moment do I believe that those driving the invasion of the Council offices were the residents of Grenfell House - the victims and their families are being used for political ends. Aided and abetted by the increasingly hysterical voices from Corbyn and the Labour Party who are stoking the situation with their 'demands'
What has happened is a tragedy and we need to find out what happened and why. That needs to happen quickly. Similarly we need to provide for those who have been affected as quickly and efficiently as possible.
Jumping on the outrage bus will do nothing to help those efforts. Violence on the streets is not that answer - no matter what the Shadow Chancellor may believe.
We are seeing a situation that could well end up with the Police being forced to take action to restore order - rather than being part of the relief effort. When Council offices have to be evacuated because they are being invaded - then the relief efforts are disrupted.
Yes, there is real anger - but there is also a lot of politically-aggravated outrage being spouted. Calm heads have to prevail but, at the moment, no-one is giving those voices a chance to be heard.
It is really not helpful when the LOTO suggests the illegal requisition of property as part of the solution. How can rational discussions take place when major political figures are advocating breaking the law?
I've no doubt some is politically contrived - but some is no doubt also sincere:
Whoever takes over from May has to be trusted on Brexit and to deliver it, or the party will split.
No it wouldn't.
I agree Conservatives are more pragmatic and realistic than that.The vast majority will change as the circumstances demand.
Tory MPs are now facing a Marxist opposition which might win, and, on top of that, many of them could lose their seats if Brexit is too harmful.
This will concentrate minds a LOT. I doubt there are two dozen MPs who are so ideologically eurosceptic they would accept a Corbyn government just to get their preferred flavour of LEAVE.
As long as Hammond promised to LEAVE, he would be accepted. Davis would do the negotiating.
Hammond would be an awful choice. He's the male version of May or alternatively a very poor man's John Major, without the interest of cricket.
Uninspiring, intellectually shallow but with an added sprinkling of smug boringness. What ministerial role has he excelled at? None. Corbyn would just deploy the same tactics and run rings round him.
David Davies or Boris. Both have charm, an intellect and can empathise. They also believe in Brexit.
BUT Theresa needs to hang on for a few months now. The time for her to step down in the short term was last Friday, she can't be seen to be forced out by the revolutionaries. That would be a further disaster for the country.
Just checked (I have no bet on the next Con leader), and am puzzled that Hammond is 13 to be next leader, but Ruth Davidson is 9. Is that not crazy?
Yes.
If she stood down does Ruth stand in Maidenhead? Looking at the options in this deeply mediocre cabinet they could really do with her.
Seriously, you're all beginning to sound desperate over Ruth. A politician with no experience of UK/English politics. Will her appeal travel beyond Bonnie Scotland? And would she want to? Not sure I would in her shoes.
She is a winner, she is smart, extremely competent with the media, she gives (and has given in Scotland) a completely different face to the Conservative party allowing it to reach parts it never could before and blunting a lot of the normal attack lines. She has proven to be pragmatic, she was a strong remainer (far more than May) but now accepts that Brexit has to be implemented. She will go for as soft a Brexit as she can making the economy the priority. Her position is what we need right now. But getting her there is not easy, that I accept.
It is however too easy to confuse someone who is good at being a lively honest campaigner with someone with the judgement and skills needed to manage and lead a country through difficult times?
Oh yes, she is seriously untested at running things. But the standards against which she is being judged are not high and seem to be getting lower all the time. The key for the government is to get people listening to them again and to sound like they have a grip. I think she could do that.
Grief porn wall-to-wall on the BBC. All other news has been cancelled.
What precisely is showing people sobbing in the street, on repeat, going to achieve?
Still, at least Cowell's bringing out a charity single.
The BBC have been loving this from the very start. From Victoria Derbyshire's nauseating performance the other morning onwards, they have been pushing and pushing for more and more emotive coverage - ignoring basic journalistic principles all along the way.
The real victims are being ignored whilst those with an agenda are being given free airtime to spout conspiracy theories and hate.
Let those who have been affected by this have their voice - but the rest is rabble-rousing and quite frankly appalling.
If you believe what is being said then the Government and the council conspired to create death traps as part of a social cleansing policy. Whatever the failings of regulation or oversight or policy, that sort of thinking is misguided and deluded. No Government minister or Council Cabinet Member goes to working thinking about how they can kill poor people.
But if you believe the coverage, that is what we are being told happens.
The Right's love affair with the sullen, disenfranchised masses seems to have been somewhat short lived.
Yep. If that stupid referendum hadn't happened....things would be so much more stable right now. Ever since then, it's been getting worse and worse. Both Cameron and May have led us to disaster over worrying/assumping things about the UKIP vote.
All they ever thought of was the dominance of the conservative party not what was best for the country.
Exactly. They saw an EUref as a way to sort out an internal Conservative party splits. Cameron stupidly did not consider what would happen in the event of a Leave vote. He left not because of political norms - that politicians who lose major referendums should resign - but because he didn't want to deal with the responsibility of Brexit.
With May, you have to wonder as to why she even bothered running for the Conservative party leadership. She seems to not have a clue as to what direction she wants to lead this country in.
You are right, of course. Others here (including me) have been making this point but I keep being told that Dave walks on water and that George is widely loved by the voters.
Or the QS passes and straight after she'll announce her intention to stand down after a Con leadership election.
Either way I think we'll know whats happening next week...
Someone will confirm but I don't think the vote on the QS happens immediately after it.
I think there is a debate lasting approx 5 days and then the vote is at the end.
In which case the vote will be the following week.
I believe that is correct so only three weeks after to the summer recess. I do not see her going before the Autumn
Do you mean resigning or actually getting the removal vans in?
Isn't after the Queen's Speech vote actually the ideal time to have a leadership election if you're going to have one at all?
She is very determined and I do not think she will fold easily or quickly. Just heard her interviewed by Emily Maitis on the BBC who did not hold back any punches, but she was firm and very focussed.
Whoever takes over from May has to be trusted on Brexit and to deliver it, or the party will split.
But DD would still be the one to carry out the negotiations.
Don't trust Hammond. And the European Council is just as (even more?) important than the talks with the European Commission.
Anyone who thinks staying in the customs union *and* the single market represents any form of meaningful Brexit is deluded. Renders the Department for International Trade totally redundant.
The political agitation in Kensington is reprehensible. Not for a single moment do I believe that those driving the invasion of the Council offices were the residents of Grenfell House - the victims and their families are being used for political ends. Aided and abetted by the increasingly hysterical voices from Corbyn and the Labour Party who are stoking the situation with their 'demands'
What has happened is a tragedy and we need to find out what happened and why. That needs to happen quickly. Similarly we need to provide for those who have been affected as quickly and efficiently as possible.
It is really not helpful when the LOTO suggests the illegal requisition of property as part of the solution. How can rational discussions take place when major political figures are advocating breaking the law?
But these people aren’t treating Grenfell as political; they’re treating it as party political. They’re using it to demean Toryism as evil, and big up Corbyn as the leader Britain needs right now. He cares, you see, unlike them. He is Good, they are Bad. This isn’t politics – this is a culture war, where the horrors experienced by the working classes of North Kensington are used to underpin the binary moralism of a Corbynista worldview of the right as wicked and the left as decent. They are building their political movement on the corpses of the poor, and no amount of radical-sounding lingo can cover up just how cynical, opportunistic and depraved that is.
The political agitation in Kensington is reprehensible. Not for a single moment do I believe that those driving the invasion of the Council offices were the residents of Grenfell House - the victims and their families are being used for political ends. Aided and abetted by the increasingly hysterical voices from Corbyn and the Labour Party who are stoking the situation with their 'demands'
What has happened is a tragedy and we need to find out what happened and why. That needs to happen quickly. Similarly we need to provide for those who have been affected as quickly and efficiently as possible.
It is really not helpful when the LOTO suggests the illegal requisition of property as part of the solution. How can rational discussions take place when major political figures are advocating breaking the law?
Its an emergency
An emergency doesn't give you the right to confiscate property - one of the very basic human rights that those on the Left claim they always want to protect.
Make a case for emergency legislation to allow it to happen - but the current law is clear, what Corbyn has demanded is ILLEGAL. Simple as that.
Looks like the Momentum redshirts have taken McDonnell's suggestions to heart.
If people get hurt or arrested I hope there is an investigation into the BBC and Sky because they have been stirring up - bordering on incitement - discontent from the very start with their hyperbolic coverage. They should be thoroughly ashamed of the way they have 'reported' this terrible incident.
Looks like the Momentum redshirts have taken McDonnell's suggestions to heart.
If people get hurt or arrested I hope there is an investigation into the BBC and Sky because they have been stirring up - bordering on incitement - discontent from the very start with their hyperbolic coverage. They should be thoroughly ashamed of the way they have 'reported' this terrible incident.
The political agitation in Kensington is reprehensible. Not for a single moment do I believe that those driving the invasion of the Council offices were the residents of Grenfell House - the victims and their families are being used for political ends. Aided and abetted by the increasingly hysterical voices from Corbyn and the Labour Party who are stoking the situation with their 'demands'
What has happened is a tragedy and we need to find out what happened and why. That needs to happen quickly. Similarly we need to provide for those who have been affected as quickly and efficiently as possible.
It is really not helpful when the LOTO suggests the illegal requisition of property as part of the solution. How can rational discussions take place when major political figures are advocating breaking the law?
Its an emergency
An emergency doesn't give you the right to confiscate property - one of the very basic human rights that those on the Left claim they always want to protect.
Make a case for emergency legislation to allow it to happen - but the current law is clear, what Corbyn has demanded is ILLEGAL. Simple as that.
Land Banking is not acceptable
It is one of many excesses of Capitalism that is not acceptable as ordinary people suufer
It's beginning to look like certain Labour party people are using this disaster to fuel the anger and further their own political aims having not won power last week...
It's beginning to look like certain Labour party leaders are using this disaster to fuel the anger and further their own political aims having not won power last week...
Looks like the Momentum redshirts have taken McDonnell's suggestions to heart.
If people get hurt or arrested I hope there is an investigation into the BBC and Sky because they have been stirring up - bordering on incitement - discontent from the very start with their hyperbolic coverage. They should be thoroughly ashamed of the way they have 'reported' this terrible incident.
Totally agree I do not know which is worse Sky or BBC.They have hardly shown Jo Cox parents and family events trying to bring people together .
Looks like the Momentum redshirts have taken McDonnell's suggestions to heart.
If people get hurt or arrested I hope there is an investigation into the BBC and Sky because they have been stirring up - bordering on incitement - discontent from the very start with their hyperbolic coverage. They should be thoroughly ashamed of the way they have 'reported' this terrible incident.
So it's not the fault of incompetent and chaotic authorities? It's Sky and the BBC who have pretty much left the community to fend for themselves for nigh on 5 days? Ok........
Looks like the Momentum redshirts have taken McDonnell's suggestions to heart.
If people get hurt or arrested I hope there is an investigation into the BBC and Sky because they have been stirring up - bordering on incitement - discontent from the very start with their hyperbolic coverage. They should be thoroughly ashamed of the way they have 'reported' this terrible incident.
It's odd when we have terrorist attacks within the day they go all out to preach about the dangers of backlash and how we all need to remain calm and wait until we know all the details etc...
In this case the likes of Derbyshire was spouting all sorts of conspiracies within minutes.
I see some council official has been attacked by the mob on his way home.
The political agitation in Kensington is reprehensible. Not for a single moment do I believe that those driving the invasion of the Council offices were the residents of Grenfell House - the victims and their families are being used for political ends. Aided and abetted by the increasingly hysterical voices from Corbyn and the Labour Party who are stoking the situation with their 'demands'
What has happened is a tragedy and we need to find out what happened and why. That needs to happen quickly. Similarly we need to provide for those who have been affected as quickly and efficiently as possible.
It is really not helpful when the LOTO suggests the illegal requisition of property as part of the solution. How can rational discussions take place when major political figures are advocating breaking the law?
Its an emergency
An emergency doesn't give you the right to confiscate property - one of the very basic human rights that those on the Left claim they always want to protect.
Make a case for emergency legislation to allow it to happen - but the current law is clear, what Corbyn has demanded is ILLEGAL. Simple as that.
Land Banking is not acceptable
It is one of many excesses of Capitalism that is not acceptable as ordinary people suufer
That's not what Corbyn called for - he called for state expropriation which would do untold damage to the Uk
Nobody seems to picking JC up on his blatant lie that this is 'the poorest ward in the whole country' or even asking him wherefrom he obtained this 'fact'.
In the last set of deprivation indices that used ward-level data it wasn't among the 500 most deprived wards in the country, and indeed wasn't even the most deprived in K&C.
More recent indices which use Small Output Areas show that this area isn't in the most deprived 1500 SOAs. I can't be arsed looking down any further to see exactly where it is - again, there are several in K&C that are more deprived, both overall, and on the specific wealth index.
Last week everyone seemed to be falling into the trap of thinking Kensington is wealthier and more Tory than it actually is. Now the narrative is that people living in 2k/month apartments in Kensington are the poorest and most vulnerable.
Ludicrous 'cake and eat it' misrepresentation going on.
Looks like the Momentum redshirts have taken McDonnell's suggestions to heart.
If people get hurt or arrested I hope there is an investigation into the BBC and Sky because they have been stirring up - bordering on incitement - discontent from the very start with their hyperbolic coverage. They should be thoroughly ashamed of the way they have 'reported' this terrible incident.
The political agitation in Kensington is reprehensible. Not for a single moment do I believe that those driving the invasion of the Council offices were the residents of Grenfell House - the victims and their families are being used for political ends. Aided and abetted by the increasingly hysterical voices from Corbyn and the Labour Party who are stoking the situation with their 'demands'
What has happened is a tragedy and we need to find out what happened and why. That needs to happen quickly. Similarly we need to provide for those who have been affected as quickly and efficiently as possible.
It is really not helpful when the LOTO suggests the illegal requisition of property as part of the solution. How can rational discussions take place when major political figures are advocating breaking the law?
Its an emergency
An emergency doesn't give you the right to confiscate property - one of the very basic human rights that those on the Left claim they always want to protect.
Make a case for emergency legislation to allow it to happen - but the current law is clear, what Corbyn has demanded is ILLEGAL. Simple as that.
Land Banking is not acceptable
It is one of many excesses of Capitalism that is not acceptable as ordinary people suufer
Spout a soundbite if you must - but without a change in the law, what Corbyn is advocating is quite simply illegal. If the LOTO isn't prepared to uphold the rule of law then he is not fit to hold office.
He isn't calling for a change in the law, he is calling for the requisitioning of private property - and that is illegal. And he isn't being challenged on that.
We have to work within the law as it currently exists and seek to change it when the opportunity and necessity requires it.
Looks like the Momentum redshirts have taken McDonnell's suggestions to heart.
If people get hurt or arrested I hope there is an investigation into the BBC and Sky because they have been stirring up - bordering on incitement - discontent from the very start with their hyperbolic coverage. They should be thoroughly ashamed of the way they have 'reported' this terrible incident.
So it's not the fault of incompetent and chaotic authorities? It's Sky and the BBC who have pretty much left the community to fend for themselves for nigh on 5 days? Ok........
"pretty much left the community to fend for themselves for nigh on 5 days"
What's your evidence for that?
Isn't that a bit unfair on the many people from the council who will be working their arses off to sort out what is a very complex and fairly unprecedented (in recent times) situation?
Edit: heh. That last sentence somewhat conflicts with Richard's next post ...
Really? Housing 100 families in a city of 8.6million is an emergency requiring draconian powers to be invoked?
Do you really believe this utter nonsense*?
If so, were you calling on the Labour government to requisition homes in 2006, or on any of the other occasions when hundreds or thousands of families have had to be rehoused at short notice, often in places with far, far fewer properties available than in London?
The political agitation in Kensington is reprehensible. Not for a single moment do I believe that those driving the invasion of the Council offices were the residents of Grenfell House - the victims and their families are being used for political ends. Aided and abetted by the increasingly hysterical voices from Corbyn and the Labour Party who are stoking the situation with their 'demands'
What has happened is a tragedy and we need to find out what happened and why. That needs to happen quickly. Similarly we need to provide for those who have been affected as quickly and efficiently as possible.
It is really not helpful when the LOTO suggests the illegal requisition of property as part of the solution. How can rational discussions take place when major political figures are advocating breaking the law?
Its an emergency
You need to get a grip. It's what, 100 families affected. And the authorities appear to be doing everything in their powers to clothe, rehouse and care for those affected. They've been turning supplies away, such has been the response.
Looks like the Momentum redshirts have taken McDonnell's suggestions to heart.
If people get hurt or arrested I hope there is an investigation into the BBC and Sky because they have been stirring up - bordering on incitement - discontent from the very start with their hyperbolic coverage. They should be thoroughly ashamed of the way they have 'reported' this terrible incident.
So it's not the fault of incompetent and chaotic authorities? It's Sky and the BBC who have pretty much left the community to fend for themselves for nigh on 5 days? Ok........
Of course they should highlight the chaos of the authorities but they have gone far beyond that politicising the tragedy to the point that a psychiatrist on Sky admonished them directly for adding to the grief and anger
As i watch icant believe that TM, CEO of UK PLC was not wken up at three in the morning and told to get her a*** down there, checking that the emergency services had the resouces they needed and the moving on to ensure that the needs of those who survived were being taken care of. It was obvious it was a major incident. It could have been done outside of the press with one question to the commander on the ground " have you got the resources?" ok then move on to the next problem. Im sure many have lived on a bleeper and had to rise to the occassion but this was pathetic even with hindsight.
Whoever takes over from May has to be trusted on Brexit and to deliver it, or the party will split.
Given where we are it really is about time the Tories started thinking about what will be in the country's best interests not the best way to avoid a party split
I agree with all that, particularly your worries about Cable. My problem is that Swinson is untested and seems a bit lightweight. I think I'm an undecided but probably Cable.
Yes, I do slightly worry about Swinson being strongly linked to things like reducing packaging. Not that I'm against reducing packaging, just I do actually want to hear a convincing, broader articulation of her values and vision.
I don't really see the appeal of Cable as leader (although, as I say, I like him and am very pleased he's back). The party needs reinventing, even rebranding. The idea of having him guide the Lib Dems through a couple of years seems a pointless displacement activity (yes the maths means the LDs are arguably more relevant to Brexit etc than their 12 seats would suggest... but they are still a distant fourth party). The idea of a 79 year old ex-cabinet minister being the fresh and exciting choice for moderates in 2022 seems outlandish.
He won't stand in 2022. I would hope he would hand over to a fresh and exciting choice in about two years time when the LibDems have had the time to reinvent and rebrand out of the national shambles of Brexit. If there is an election in the next two years, then Cable is a credible leader. Perhaps Swinson will shine in the hustings, though Cable wants to foreshorten them in case there is a general election in the autumn.
I just don't see the point of a caretaker in these circumstances at all. You can't reinvent the brand under a caretaker. And it's not like the LDs are going to carry out a global executive search - they have a choice of 11 MPs (Farron excluded) and realistically three or four.
Chose the best one and crack on. Anything else is procrastination.
Totally agree with this, that is why the choice for me is between Lamb and Swinson assuming both stand. I guess that Vince wants a shorter process also since he probably thinks he is better known by the membership and therefore the fewer hustings there are the better for him also.
The political agitation in Kensington is reprehensible. Not for a single moment do I believe that those driving the invasion of the Council offices were the residents of Grenfell House - the victims and their families are being used for political ends. Aided and abetted by the increasingly hysterical voices from Corbyn and the Labour Party who are stoking the situation with their 'demands'
What has happened is a tragedy and we need to find out what happened and why. That needs to happen quickly. Similarly we need to provide for those who have been affected as quickly and efficiently as possible.
It is really not helpful when the LOTO suggests the illegal requisition of property as part of the solution. How can rational discussions take place when major political figures are advocating breaking the law?
Its an emergency
You need to get a grip. It's what, 100 families affected. And the authorities appear to be doing everything in their powers to clothe, rehouse and care for those affected. They've been turning supplies away, such has been the response.
May needs to get a grip TBF
Although she appears incapable.
Surely the DUP will not want to be associated with her
Comments
May has to get a grip on this, and fast.
This weekend is forecast to be cream tea weather, reigniting old passions over the cream first/jam first schism.
It could get very, very nasty down Saltash way over the coming hours.
Chose the best one and crack on. Anything else is procrastination.
Either the QS fails, in which case she resigns.
Or the QS passes and straight after she'll announce her intention to stand down after a Con leadership election.
Either way I think we'll know whats happening next week...
Enjoy...
Whether she stands down during the summer recess is another matter and of course if the Queens Speech fails she will have to resign
I think there is a debate lasting approx 5 days and then the vote is at the end.
In which case the vote will be the following week.
What has happened is a tragedy and we need to find out what happened and why. That needs to happen quickly. Similarly we need to provide for those who have been affected as quickly and efficiently as possible.
Jumping on the outrage bus will do nothing to help those efforts. Violence on the streets is not that answer - no matter what the Shadow Chancellor may believe.
We are seeing a situation that could well end up with the Police being forced to take action to restore order - rather than being part of the relief effort. When Council offices have to be evacuated because they are being invaded - then the relief efforts are disrupted.
Yes, there is real anger - but there is also a lot of politically-aggravated outrage being spouted. Calm heads have to prevail but, at the moment, no-one is giving those voices a chance to be heard.
It is really not helpful when the LOTO suggests the illegal requisition of property as part of the solution. How can rational discussions take place when major political figures are advocating breaking the law?
Chortle ....
What precisely is showing people sobbing in the street, on repeat, going to achieve?
Still, at least Cowell's bringing out a charity single.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/16/mustafa-almansur-organiser-grenfell-tower-protest-movement/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
*Not my view but I can see that's how his opponents might characterise it.
Uninspiring, intellectually shallow but with an added sprinkling of smug boringness. What ministerial role has he excelled at? None. Corbyn would just deploy the same tactics and run rings round him.
David Davies or Boris. Both have charm, an intellect and can empathise. They also believe in Brexit.
BUT Theresa needs to hang on for a few months now. The time for her to step down in the short term was last Friday, she can't be seen to be forced out by the revolutionaries. That would be a further disaster for the country.
https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/875750091734351873
Isn't after the Queen's Speech vote actually the ideal time to have a leadership election if you're going to have one at all?
Modern politics, throwing as much shit at your opponents as possible.
The real victims are being ignored whilst those with an agenda are being given free airtime to spout conspiracy theories and hate.
Let those who have been affected by this have their voice - but the rest is rabble-rousing and quite frankly appalling.
If you believe what is being said then the Government and the council conspired to create death traps as part of a social cleansing policy. Whatever the failings of regulation or oversight or policy, that sort of thinking is misguided and deluded. No Government minister or Council Cabinet Member goes to working thinking about how they can kill poor people.
But if you believe the coverage, that is what we are being told happens.
What a mess.
Dave checkmated himself, and us.
Thanks, Dave.
https://order-order.com/2017/06/16/corbynista-ultras-involved-in-storming-of-kensington-council-hq/
https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/875766468134268928
Anyone who thinks staying in the customs union *and* the single market represents any form of meaningful Brexit is deluded. Renders the Department for International Trade totally redundant.
http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/post-brexit-leaving-customs-union-no-brainer/
https://twitter.com/labourlewis/status/875758693693960193
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/please-stop-exploiting-the-dead-of-grenfell-tower/19962#.WUQWYsZ7H1K
Make a case for emergency legislation to allow it to happen - but the current law is clear, what Corbyn has demanded is ILLEGAL. Simple as that.
Who said the council was out of touch ?!?
https://twitter.com/AdamRamsay/status/875761609037283329
As one of the replies below that tweet says, is Tessy now too toxic/ineffectual for the DUP to do a deal with?
It is one of many excesses of Capitalism that is not acceptable as ordinary people suufer
It's odd when we have terrorist attacks within the day they go all out to preach about the dangers of backlash and how we all need to remain calm and wait until we know all the details etc...
In this case the likes of Derbyshire was spouting all sorts of conspiracies within minutes.
I see some council official has been attacked by the mob on his way home.
Even if they can't admit it on here, they will be troubled by this.
In the last set of deprivation indices that used ward-level data it wasn't among the 500 most deprived wards in the country, and indeed wasn't even the most deprived in K&C.
More recent indices which use Small Output Areas show that this area isn't in the most deprived 1500 SOAs. I can't be arsed looking down any further to see exactly where it is - again, there are several in K&C that are more deprived, both overall, and on the specific wealth index.
Last week everyone seemed to be falling into the trap of thinking Kensington is wealthier and more Tory than it actually is. Now the narrative is that people living in 2k/month apartments in Kensington are the poorest and most vulnerable.
Ludicrous 'cake and eat it' misrepresentation going on.
Tsk ....
He isn't calling for a change in the law, he is calling for the requisitioning of private property - and that is illegal. And he isn't being challenged on that.
We have to work within the law as it currently exists and seek to change it when the opportunity and necessity requires it.
What's your evidence for that?
Isn't that a bit unfair on the many people from the council who will be working their arses off to sort out what is a very complex and fairly unprecedented (in recent times) situation?
Edit: heh. That last sentence somewhat conflicts with Richard's next post ...
Do you really believe this utter nonsense*?
If so, were you calling on the Labour government to requisition homes in 2006, or on any of the other occasions when hundreds or thousands of families have had to be rehoused at short notice, often in places with far, far fewer properties available than in London?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/4590098.stm
Someone needs to help defuse the tension that is building - and I can't honestly see who can do that.
I guess that Vince wants a shorter process also since he probably thinks he is better known by the membership and therefore the fewer hustings there are the better for him also.
Although she appears incapable.
Surely the DUP will not want to be associated with her
If so, you'd better be careful, because mobs are unpredictable and could easily turn against *you*.
Except Labour are controlling them. For the moment.