Being stoical used to be regarded as a virtue. I thought it still was, but obviously I'm out of touch.
Please, please not Johnson
I'm a big fan of BoJo, but this is not the time for a charismatic joker.
Hammond, please. Boring, smart businessman, with a faintly human wit. Soft Brexiteer.
He won't be as genial as Corbyn but he won't be as awkward and weird and sad as May.
I think Hammond would take Corbyn apart in debates, too. He is smart, calm and relatovely quick-witted. He is also at ease with himself. Corbyn would struggle against that kind of Tory. Hammond is very John Major. Grey can work well if it comes with human. Major did not cuddle people, but you never doubted he liked them.
As a punter, Hammond is my favourite politician. He's so grey, people discount him.
I was on him at 20/1 with PaddyPower to be next Foreign Secretary. Then on him at 7/1 with Ladbrokes to be next COE. And I'm now on him with Betfair at 320/1 to be Prime Minister after the election. That is a 44,800/1 accumulator for a grey man. Unfortunately I didn't accumulate on him but I have made a significant sum on him so far. Fingers crossed.
Evening Standard tonight: May's aides called Hammond a c*nt.
Jesus.
This was the killer quote for me. She and her team really were obsessed in not being Cameron.
To some it seemed Timothy assumed victory was in the bag and he was more concerned with “crazy ideology” and taking potshots at Cameron’s policies than winning votes.
On being overly emotional: such changes can happen swiftly. The UK (well, Empire) went from Nelson's emotional "Kiss me, Hardy" line of thinking to the Iron Duke in just a few years.
She'd be better off getting a new constituency - Maidenhead, say. I would not have a problem with Rudd in charge. She seems to have a brain and is not religious about Brexit.
I'd have no problem with Rudd in charge either but I don't see any need for her to be found a safer seat. Frankly, I think it would do the Conservatives a world of good to be led by someone representing a super marginal seat. Obviously she'd be a massive target for decapitation at the next GE but, then again, she already is isn't she? If she's any good at being PM she'll win on her merits. I think she has somewhat more chance of holding her seat under her own leadership than she does under any other leader.
The only good thing is that switching our PM at this stage and so soon after an election, might convince the EU that we are all barking mad and deserve a sympathy vote in the Brexit talks.
Give me strength, there will a Tory leadership election followed by another GE. We'll be out of the EU this rate before we've even got our act together. Whichever way you look at it we are are in one hell of a hole right now. Politically paralysed at the point we are about to make momentous decisions for the country's future. .
Yes indeed.
As far as "taking back control" goes, I think we now have less control than I can ever remember.
There will be lots of body parts that need to be collated. You have to treat each body part found as a separate casualty until it has been positively identified as belonging to another, and that usually means DNA rather than matching a pair of trainers. It will take a long time.
What do they have to do to make the building safe so they can investigate properly? Presumably so far they've only been able to do minimal checks, at considerable risk to themselves.
There will be lots of body parts that need to be collated. You have to treat each body part found as a separate casualty until it has been positively identified as belonging to another, and that usually means DNA rather than matching a pair of trainers. It will take a long time.
What do they have to do to make the building safe so they can investigate properly? Presumably so far they've only been able to do minimal checks, at considerable risk to themselves.
Indeed, I doubt anyone should be going too far into the building at all. How stable is it?
Evening Standard tonight: May's aides called Hammond a c*nt.
Jesus.
This was the killer quote for me. She and her team really were obsessed in not being Cameron.
To some it seemed Timothy assumed victory was in the bag and he was more concerned with “crazy ideology” and taking potshots at Cameron’s policies than winning votes.
His policies that made his party electable for the first time in 13 years, getting back into government and then securing a majority the following election.
Fucking idiots for distancing themselves so much from that.
Evening Standard tonight: May's aides called Hammond a c*nt.
Jesus.
This was the killer quote for me. She and her team really were obsessed in not being Cameron.
To some it seemed Timothy assumed victory was in the bag and he was more concerned with “crazy ideology” and taking potshots at Cameron’s policies than winning votes.
“The problem with staking everything on one person is that you suffer greater damage if things go wrong,” said a former minister.
I wonder how far down the corridor the journalist needed to walk to get that quote!
I'm not sure I've ever seen Britain this..... neurotic, even anarchic... in my lifetime.
Even during the brutal years of early Thatcherism, and the miners' strike, you felt the government was in charge.
Now....
There is a mob mentality, it is not that big of a mob but it is still there. And May doesn't have the image to stand up to it currently.
I get the impression a lot of people in London are annoyed because they voted 55%-33% in favour of Labour on 8th June but they still have a Tory government running the country, albeit one without an overall majority. And those figures include outer London boroughs which voted for the Tories like Bromley and Bexley.
I imagine that is true and the EU Referendum must have felt the same. However, Londoners need to realise that London is not the UK. I have lived here a number of years now and at times have been struck by the ignorance of many Londoners (both indigenous and incomers) about the rest of the country.
On being overly emotional: such changes can happen swiftly. The UK (well, Empire) went from Nelson's emotional "Kiss me, Hardy" line of thinking to the Iron Duke in just a few years.
It was Kismet wasn't it? Ie it was fate that he would be killed at the time of his greatest victory.
Is this right time to note that I really feel nostalgic for the Major premiership? Dull guy, fairly safe pair of hands. May is a disaster and things will get worse as the death toll rises and the response from the authorities seems inadequate.
Norman Lamb: Pros: Actual liberal, great on health Against: Hunting ban vote could come back to haunt...
Jo Swinson: Pros: Fiery campaigner Against: Feels a bit Labour light.
Vince Cable: Pros: Safe pair of hands "For strong and stable, vote Vince Cable" rhymes. Against: Plotter & schemer.
Jo Swinson: Pros: Fiery campaigner Against: Feels a bit Labour light.
I haven't seen the fiery campaigner. Labour lite sounds good! If she's a fiery campaigner as well I might change my vote from plotter and schemer Cable.
But Hammond was one of the few cabinet ministers to not vote for same sex marriage. That makes him as toxic as the DUP in the eyes of the chattering classes. It's a big Achilles heel in today's politics. Rudd might be a better bet.
I'm not sure I've ever seen Britain this..... neurotic, even anarchic... in my lifetime.
I have - multiple city riots in (?) 1981, I remember thinking 'I imagine this is how the Middle Class feel before they are swept away'. A Chief Constable was asked what he hoped would calm things down 'rain' was the reply. Also R4 Today 'we are receiving reports of disturbances in Newcastle over the weekend are going live to the Chief Constable - what can you tell us? 'It was a typical Saturday night in the Bigg Market'....
On being overly emotional: such changes can happen swiftly. The UK (well, Empire) went from Nelson's emotional "Kiss me, Hardy" line of thinking to the Iron Duke in just a few years.
It was Kismet wasn't it? Ie it was fate that he would be killed at the time of his greatest victory.
No that's a myth that sprang up to gel with the stiff upper lip thing. It was kiss me
Mr. 83, not only that, but doing so in such a vindictive and divisive manner (although Osborne has since responded in kind).
One should always be civil. That way, your friends are comfortable, and your enemies don't see you coming until you've destroyed them.
Machiavelli wrote that men should be pampered or annihilated. The worst thing was to wound someone so they hate you but doing so feebly enough that they're still strong enough to retaliate.
There will be lots of body parts that need to be collated. You have to treat each body part found as a separate casualty until it has been positively identified as belonging to another, and that usually means DNA rather than matching a pair of trainers. It will take a long time.
What do they have to do to make the building safe so they can investigate properly? Presumably so far they've only been able to do minimal checks, at considerable risk to themselves.
I've been on shoring courses, to stabilize a building for a rescue, but this is a completely different scenario. Many Brigades have Technical Urban Search and Rescue capabilities, and LFB have the biggest and best resourced, but it's a huge task to make a 24 floor destroyed tower block safe enough to start to explore.
Just checked (I have no bet on the next Con leader), and am puzzled that Hammond is 13 to be next leader, but Ruth Davidson is 9. Is that not crazy?
Yes.
If she stood down does Ruth stand in Maidenhead? Looking at the options in this deeply mediocre cabinet they could really do with her.
Seriously, you're all beginning to sound desperate over Ruth. A politician with no experience of UK/English politics. Will her appeal travel beyond Bonnie Scotland? And would she want to? Not sure I would in her shoes.
She is a winner, she is smart, extremely competent with the media, she gives (and has given in Scotland) a completely different face to the Conservative party allowing it to reach parts it never could before and blunting a lot of the normal attack lines. She has proven to be pragmatic, she was a strong remainer (far more than May) but now accepts that Brexit has to be implemented. She will go for as soft a Brexit as she can making the economy the priority. Her position is what we need right now. But getting her there is not easy, that I accept.
It is however too easy to confuse someone who is good at being a lively honest campaigner with someone with the judgement and skills needed to manage and lead a country through difficult times?
There will be lots of body parts that need to be collated. You have to treat each body part found as a separate casualty until it has been positively identified as belonging to another, and that usually means DNA rather than matching a pair of trainers. It will take a long time.
What do they have to do to make the building safe so they can investigate properly? Presumably so far they've only been able to do minimal checks, at considerable risk to themselves.
I've been on shoring courses, to stabilize a building for a rescue, but this is a completely different scenario. Many Brigades have Technical Urban Search and Rescue capabilities, and LFB have the biggest and best resourced, but it's a huge task to make a 24 floor destroyed tower block safe enough to start to explore.
Yes, I find it hard to imagine how you'd even start.
I like Rudd but she can come across as very shouty from what I've seen in two debates now. And I wouldn't say that comes across all that well at times.
Honestly for me there is no candidate that if May should go that ticks all the boxes, question marks over all of them.
I think the difference between IDS and May is that she is a sitting prime minister. Not only that, but the Tories will look very bad if they dump the leader who during the general election which ended only last week was the Tory candidate for the job, and who won as many votes as Thatcher. A new Tory PM could be accused of being an unelected PM -even though we dont elect our PMs. (Besides which Hammond or Davies would be terrible choices). I think the Tories should look around for a year for someone who could be groomed as a possible successor, and not panic
Should George Osborne be included in the list of winners from this election? He certainly seems to be having at least as much fun as anyone else.
He'd be even more of a winner if he was still an MP.
I'm not sure about that. A lot of the displacement activity from angry Conservatives seems focused on blaming him for reporting true stories. They don't seem in a mood for peace and reconciliation with him.
Just been reading the list of demands from the protesters and I suspect this one in particular is why there is so such tension:
-Release full list of victims of the tragedy.
They must be asking that because they think the true number of victims is being covered up.
Sadly the true number of victims literally is being covered up because firefighters can't reach into the unstable and dangerous building
What's going to be interesting is to know how many of the flats were being illegally sub-let.
Why is that going to be interesting?
There are many more issues that are more interesting. For instance, why did the K&C Planning Committee set a condition that the panels where aesthetically pleasing but not that they were fire resistant?
Should George Osborne be included in the list of winners from this election? He certainly seems to be having at least as much fun as anyone else.
He'd be even more of a winner if he was still an MP.
The Tories must be regretting not making Osborne PM after Cameron's resignation, but he was tainted with the defeated remain campaign. Too late now, unless they encourage him to stand in a by election before they dispatch May which seems unlikely.
There are many more issues that are more interesting. For instance, why did the K&C Planning Committee set a condition that the panels where aesthetically pleasing but not that they were fire resistant?
No doubt because the former is in their remit, whereas the latter is a technical issue and they would have relied - as every single one of us here would in the same position, including you - on the experts ensuring that the regulations were met and the building safe.
Really, these attempts at scapegoating are seriously distasteful. If you have evidence of irresponsibility, you should pass it to the authorities. If you don't, you and everyone else should stop smearing people.
Should George Osborne be included in the list of winners from this election? He certainly seems to be having at least as much fun as anyone else.
He'd be even more of a winner if he was still an MP.
I'm not sure about that. A lot of the displacement activity from angry Conservatives seems focused on blaming him for reporting true stories. They don't seem in a mood for peace and reconciliation with him.
You become a lot better player when you're on the bench of a losing team. A year ago he organised a campaign that lost almost as badly as May just did
I try and have sympathy for her, then I remember how badly she treated so many Tories the evening she became Prime Minister.
Karma is a bitch.
Yes, that was spectacularly stupid and some of us said so at the time. A party with a very small majority (those were the days) and an even smaller pool of talent and she is focussed on vendettas? The warning signs were there.
It wasn't just the likes of George Osborne, but the SPADs and CCHQ staff she seemed to sack with glee.
Just imagine if she had allowed Osborne to resign instead....
I assumed he would go back bench and then be brought back in....I was so wrong, he was kicked out and not eased out and then left to rot. Stupid, stupid move. And stupid me for thinking the best of it all.
Yes, the manner of the Osborne sacking was unfathomable. Even if if she thought Osborne a complete tw@t, was it too much just to say, 'Thanks for all your hard work George, but I've decided I'd like Phil to do the Chancellor thing from now on'? Osborne is a wealthy, well-connected man with a lot of friends. You'd want him on your side. Why antagonise?
Norman Lamb: Pros: Actual liberal, great on health Against: Hunting ban vote could come back to haunt...
Jo Swinson: Pros: Fiery campaigner Against: Feels a bit Labour light.
Vince Cable: Pros: Safe pair of hands "For strong and stable, vote Vince Cable" rhymes. Against: Plotter & schemer.
On Lamb, another advantage for him is that he's quick to make friends and slow to make enemies. He's not got an electrifying public persona, but does have good relationships with colleagues, many opponents, many in the media etc. That does matter if you're trying to (re)build a brand - you have the underlying goodwill for the person trying to do it.
On Swinson, she has appeal but I'll be interested to see how she positions herself in the strategic sense. I did worry with Farron that he set himself up as the anti-establishment candidate, which might have been sensible tactically if Labour hadn't gone for Corbyn. Arguably (perhaps unfairly) he was seen as the less popular of two anti-establishment populists - and that appeals to nobody.
On Cable, I like him but actually don't think he's as safe a pair of hands as he's given credit for. Student fees, Royal Mail sell-off price, and indiscrete comments on Murdoch/Sky were all on his watch at BIS. He comes across as the adult in the room, which may have merits in this environment, but I'm not sure I'd be 100% confident that the image would match the practice.
There will be lots of body parts that need to be collated. You have to treat each body part found as a separate casualty until it has been positively identified as belonging to another, and that usually means DNA rather than matching a pair of trainers. It will take a long time.
What do they have to do to make the building safe so they can investigate properly? Presumably so far they've only been able to do minimal checks, at considerable risk to themselves.
I've been on shoring courses, to stabilize a building for a rescue, but this is a completely different scenario. Many Brigades have Technical Urban Search and Rescue capabilities, and LFB have the biggest and best resourced, but it's a huge task to make a 24 floor destroyed tower block safe enough to start to explore.
Yes, I find it hard to imagine how you'd even start.
I suspect it's going to have to be LFB initially making entry, with a specialist company following behind. It'll be slow and extremely dangerous. Alternatively, a surveyor might make different call, and it might be safer than it appears.........I hope!
Govt announce 5 million pound commitment. Rehousing to take part place within 3 weeks and if possible in K and C plus other commitments to ensure no financial losses to victims. Victims to be given say in terms of reference of enquiry and free legal representation at same.
Should George Osborne be included in the list of winners from this election? He certainly seems to be having at least as much fun as anyone else.
He'd be even more of a winner if he was still an MP.
I'm not sure about that. A lot of the displacement activity from angry Conservatives seems focused on blaming him for reporting true stories. They don't seem in a mood for peace and reconciliation with him.
I think the anger is stemmed from Osborne being right.
Who did warn getting any/a good Brexit deal wouldn't be easy.
Govt announce 5 million pound commitment. Rehousing to take part place within 3 weeks and if possible in K and C plus other commitments to ensure no financial losses to victims. Victims to be given say in terms of reference of enquiry and free legal representation at same.
Norman Lamb: Pros: Actual liberal, great on health Against: Hunting ban vote could come back to haunt...
Jo Swinson: Pros: Fiery campaigner Against: Feels a bit Labour light.
Vince Cable: Pros: Safe pair of hands "For strong and stable, vote Vince Cable" rhymes. Against: Plotter & schemer.
On Lamb, another advantage for him is that he's quick to make friends and slow to make enemies. He's not got an electrifying public persona, but does have good relationships with colleagues, many opponents, many in the media etc. That does matter if you're trying to (re)build a brand - you have the underlying goodwill for the person trying to do it.
On Swinson, she has appeal but I'll be interested to see how she positions herself in the strategic sense. I did worry with Farron that he set himself up as the anti-establishment candidate, which might have been sensible tactically if Labour hadn't gone for Corbyn. Arguably (perhaps unfairly) he was seen as the less popular of two anti-establishment populists - and that appeals to nobody.
On Cable, I like him but actually don't think he's as safe a pair of hands as he's given credit for. Student fees, Royal Mail sell-off price, and indiscrete comments on Murdoch/Sky were all on his watch at BIS. He comes across as the adult in the room, which may have merits in this environment, but I'm not sure I'd be 100% confident that the image would match the practice.
I agree with all that, particularly your worries about Cable. My problem is that Swinson is untested and seems a bit lightweight. I think I'm an undecided but probably Cable.
Theresa May is fast becoming the most disliked individual in the country. Tory MPs can harp on about stability but they are utterly destroying the conservative brand.
Govt announce 5 million pound commitment. Rehousing to take part place within 3 weeks and if possible in K and C plus other commitments to ensure no financial losses to victims. Victims to be given say in terms of reference of enquiry and free legal representation at same.
Still won't be enough for the angry mob....
Appears PM was abused after meeting residents and agreeing this Package. Dangerous times.
I don't suppose it has occurred to anyone, particularly the media, that the reason Theresa May was advised not to meet residents yesterday because of security fears.
Evening Standard tonight: May's aides called Hammond a c*nt.
Jesus.
Hammond to take over as caretaker before the Queens Speech. Full contest thereafter.
Oh yes please.
God save us and bless us, when would we actually start the (expletive deleted) Brexit negotiations? New Tory leader crowned at the Tory conference, having been confirmed a s accenptable to the Orange Order. That Sept 2017, and it's got to be sorted 18 months later.
Jesus Christ, I'm glad I live in Watford and not in London.
Please, please someone tell May to resign. This whole situation is absolutely frightening. The way McDonnell and co seem to be almost begging for civil disorder is absolutely appalling. All of my fears and reasons as to why I was so reluctant to vote Labour have resurfaced big time as a result of the way they've responsed this situation.
The government needs to get a f*cking grip and realise this isn't the time to play around a take control of this situation. I'm very scared for the future of this country, and our democracy.
I really hope this doesn't turn into another Ferguson, where the media and agitators whipped up riots before any investigation (which actually found all the rumours were horseshit).
The agitation and protesting will play differently to different groups. Who knows how the political landscape will appear in a few weeks.
Totally. If the usual suspects are already taking advantage of and infiltrating the genuine protests, it has the potential to get out of hand as per 2011, and public opinion can change very quickly.
Should George Osborne be included in the list of winners from this election? He certainly seems to be having at least as much fun as anyone else.
He'd be even more of a winner if he was still an MP.
The Tories must be regretting not making Osborne PM after Cameron's resignation, but he was tainted with the defeated remain campaign. Too late now, unless they encourage him to stand in a by election before they dispatch May which seems unlikely.
If this odious snake gets anywhere near becoming PM in the future, then my membership card will be torn up and dispatched to CCHQ asap.
The Right's love affair with the sullen, disenfranchised masses seems to have been somewhat short lived.
Yep. If that stupid referendum hadn't happened....things would be so much more stable right now. Ever since then, it's been getting worse and worse. Both Cameron and May have led us to disaster over worrying/assumping things about the UKIP vote.
Jesus Christ, I'm glad I live in Watford and not in London.
Please, please someone tell May to resign. This whole situation is absolutely frightening. The way McDonnell and co seem to be almost begging for civil disorder is absolutely appalling. All of my fears and reasons as to why I was so reluctant to vote Labour have resurfaced big time as a result of the way they've responsed this situation.
The government needs to get a f*cking grip and realise this isn't the time to play around a take control of this situation. I'm very scared for the future of this country, and our democracy.
That will feed the beast. I suspect that Corbyn and Momentum will start seeing support slip away soon. The are going to be associated with some ugly currents in the minds of a significant number of people.
I think the difference between IDS and May is that she is a sitting prime minister. Not only that, but the Tories will look very bad if they dump the leader who during the general election which ended only last week was the Tory candidate for the job, and who won as many votes as Thatcher. A new Tory PM could be accused of being an unelected PM -even though we dont elect our PMs. (Besides which Hammond or Davies would be terrible choices). I think the Tories should look around for a year for someone who could be groomed as a possible successor, and not panic
Come on. The ONLY reason to have the election was because she wanted a bigger majority. She failed and doesn't even have a majority. That was a rubbish judgement call which combined with her obvious unease with members of the public raises massive questions.
Many CON MPs have lost their jobs because of her foolishness and she's performed appallingly since last Friday.
Jesus Christ, I'm glad I live in Watford and not in London.
Please, please someone tell May to resign. This whole situation is absolutely frightening. The way McDonnell and co seem to be almost begging for civil disorder is absolutely appalling. All of my fears and reasons as to why I was so reluctant to vote Labour have resurfaced big time as a result of the way they've responsed this situation.
The government needs to get a f*cking grip and realise this isn't the time to play around a take control of this situation. I'm very scared for the future of this country, and our democracy.
We don't have mob rule.
What would you like the government to do?
I'm more scared for the future of our democracy if the leader of the country is toppled by a rabble in Kensington, however sad the event that precipitated it. We're made of sterner stuff than that.
I think the difference between IDS and May is that she is a sitting prime minister. Not only that, but the Tories will look very bad if they dump the leader who during the general election which ended only last week was the Tory candidate for the job, and who won as many votes as Thatcher. A new Tory PM could be accused of being an unelected PM -even though we dont elect our PMs. (Besides which Hammond or Davies would be terrible choices). I think the Tories should look around for a year for someone who could be groomed as a possible successor, and not panic
Come on. The ONLY reason to have the election because she wanted a bigger majority. She failed and doesn't even have a majority. That was rubbish judgement call which combined with her obvious unease with members of the public raises massive question.
Many CON MPs have lost their jobs because of her foolishness and she's performed appallingly since last Friday.
The media smell blood. I hope she stays on, at least for a few months, entirely because of that.
We do not have media-rule or mob-rule in this country.
Cameron is stabbed by Boris who is stabbed by Govey who is stabbed by May who also stabs Osborne and is about to stab Hammond before she is stabbed by the electorate.....
Ms. Apocalypse, worth recalling the PLP colluded (unwittingly) in handing their party's leadership to the far left before the referendum was called, and now they're slapping their palms together for him (with a few honourable exceptions).
If Labour win a narrow majority next time (which could be any month) - will moderates like Liz K block the hard left nutjobs from some of the wilder stuff?
The Right's love affair with the sullen, disenfranchised masses seems to have been somewhat short lived.
Yep. If that stupid referendum hadn't happened....things would be so much more stable right now. Ever since then, it's been getting worse and worse. Both Cameron and May have led us to disaster over worrying/assumping things about the UKIP vote.
All they ever thought of was the dominance of the conservative party not what was best for the country.
The Right's love affair with the sullen, disenfranchised masses seems to have been somewhat short lived.
Hmm. Riots on the streets if Brexit under threat - completely understandable; riots on the streets in protest of lethally substandard housing not so much.
I don't suppose it has occurred to anyone, particularly the media, that the reason Theresa May was advised not to meet residents yesterday because of security fears.
The Right's love affair with the sullen, disenfranchised masses seems to have been somewhat short lived.
Hmm. Riots on the streets if Brexit under threat - completely understandable; riots on the streets in protest of lethally substandard housing not so much.
Worse than that. Daily Mail was virtually saying it was ok for the mob to stop judges carrying out legal decisions.
If Labour win a narrow majority next time (which could be any month) - will moderates like Liz K block the hard left nutjobs from some of the wilder stuff?
Ms. Apocalypse, worth recalling the PLP colluded (unwittingly) in handing their party's leadership to the far left before the referendum was called, and now they're slapping their palms together for him (with a few honourable exceptions).
I think the PLP feel that they have no room to manoeuvre to challenge Corbyn because of how well he did on June 8th, and they'd be right on that. How Corbyn and McDonnell play their next hand could change that. Stoking up civil disorder and supporting a Hard Brexit could well see them alienate many. We will see what happens next.
The Right's love affair with the sullen, disenfranchised masses seems to have been somewhat short lived.
Hmm. Riots on the streets if Brexit under threat - completely understandable; riots on the streets in protest of lethally substandard housing not so much.
Brexit has been under threat for ages and there's been no rioting
I agree with all that, particularly your worries about Cable. My problem is that Swinson is untested and seems a bit lightweight. I think I'm an undecided but probably Cable.
Yes, I do slightly worry about Swinson being strongly linked to things like reducing packaging. Not that I'm against reducing packaging, just I do actually want to hear a convincing, broader articulation of her values and vision.
I don't really see the appeal of Cable as leader (although, as I say, I like him and am very pleased he's back). The party needs reinventing, even rebranding. The idea of having him guide the Lib Dems through a couple of years seems a pointless displacement activity (yes the maths means the LDs are arguably more relevant to Brexit etc than their 12 seats would suggest... but they are still a distant fourth party). The idea of a 79 year old ex-cabinet minister being the fresh and exciting choice for moderates in 2022 seems outlandish.
"I think the anger is stemmed from Osborne being right."
I think lots of the anger is from the fact he was so negative week after week in the Standard that it hit the chances of Tory candidates in London seats. Of course, the editor of the Standard is under no obligation to the Tories. But equally, they are under no obligation to him. I don't think they'll welcome him back.
I don't suppose it has occurred to anyone, particularly the media, that the reason Theresa May was advised not to meet residents yesterday because of security fears.
Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth The Second and his Royal Highness Prince Andrew were not put off by "security fears".The Royals, and Mr Corbyn, have put Mrs May to shame.She so lacks courage she is incapable of getting a grip and must go.Mr Corbyn is ready to serve and must,as a constitutional right, be given the chance to form a minority government based on the exciting Labour manifesto.
Socialist Worker placards being waved outside Kensington Town Hall suggests the hard left are infiltrating the genuine protests already.
The hard left are in charge of the Labour party and they have been happily stoking a mob mentality which the police will end up having to face; and soon I can see ambulance crews and firemen having rocks thrown at them - the demonisation of non-revolutionary impure thinking is now underway - aided by a PM who seems unable to engage in normal social interactions or express herself in any normal fashion.
I'm more scared for the future of our democracy if the leader of the country is toppled by a rabble in Kensington, however sad the event that precipitated it. We're made of sterner stuff than that.
Tories have blood on their hands placards on display
They have become hysterical. Told that TM has released a £5 million fund they said it is not enough, we want much more.
I am coming round to the view that Theresa May needs to stand firm despite the onslaught against her. It cannot be right for a baying mob to take down the Prime Minister of the UK assisted by the Socialist Workers Party.
The time will come for her to stand down but not now and certainly not before the recess
I don't suppose it has occurred to anyone, particularly the media, that the reason Theresa May was advised not to meet residents yesterday because of security fears.
Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth The Second and his Royal Highness Prince Andrew were not put off by "security fears".The Royals, and Mr Corbyn, have put Mrs May to shame.She so lacks courage she is incapable of getting a grip and must go.Mr Corbyn is ready to serve and must,as a constitutional right, be given the chance to form a minority government based on the exciting(sic) Labour manifesto.
No, he mustn't - not until he has the numbers to pass a Queen's Speech...
The Right's love affair with the sullen, disenfranchised masses seems to have been somewhat short lived.
Hmm. Riots on the streets if Brexit under threat - completely understandable; riots on the streets in protest of lethally substandard housing not so much.
Worse than that. Daily Mail was virtually saying it was ok for the mob to stop judges carrying out legal decisions.
The Right's love affair with the sullen, disenfranchised masses seems to have been somewhat short lived.
Yep. If that stupid referendum hadn't happened....things would be so much more stable right now. Ever since then, it's been getting worse and worse. Both Cameron and May have led us to disaster over worrying/assumping things about the UKIP vote.
All they ever thought of was the dominance of the conservative party not what was best for the country.
Exactly. They saw an EUref as a way to sort out an internal Conservative party splits. Cameron stupidly did not consider what would happen in the event of a Leave vote. He left not because of political norms - that politicians who lose major referendums should resign - but because he didn't want to deal with the responsibility of Brexit.
With May, you have to wonder as to why she even bothered running for the Conservative party leadership. She seems to not have a clue as to what direction she wants to lead this country in.
... she's performed appallingly since last Friday.
Yes, I think that is a key point. She might just have been able to recover from the GE catastrophe, or at least stagger on for a while, but since the result was announced we've had:
- The crushingly awful statement on Friday afternoon, where she not only seemed delusional but also failed to take responsibility, failed to apologise to those who lost their seats, and even failed to thank those who put so much effort into the campaign
- Her failure to accept that she needed to change style. She should in her first statement have made it clear she was changing her team (rather than waiting to be forced to sack Timothy and Hill), and going over to a much more collegiate approach involving senio colleagues in decision making.
- The mess over the deal with the DUP, including announcing it was agreed and then having to retract.
- Her tin ear and perceived cowardice over the Grenfell tragedy.
- The rumours that she's still listening to Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill
Against that, she did by all accounts come over much better at the 1922 Committee, but overall it's a dismal response to an already disastrous position.
Comments
I was on him at 20/1 with PaddyPower to be next Foreign Secretary. Then on him at 7/1 with Ladbrokes to be next COE. And I'm now on him with Betfair at 320/1 to be Prime Minister after the election. That is a 44,800/1 accumulator for a grey man. Unfortunately I didn't accumulate on him but I have made a significant sum on him so far. Fingers crossed.
To some it seemed Timothy assumed victory was in the bag and he was more concerned with “crazy ideology” and taking potshots at Cameron’s policies than winning votes.
As far as "taking back control" goes, I think we now have less control than I can ever remember.
Fucking idiots for distancing themselves so much from that.
I wonder how far down the corridor the journalist needed to walk to get that quote!
Jo Swinson:
Pros: Fiery campaigner Against: Feels a bit Labour light.
I haven't seen the fiery campaigner. Labour lite sounds good! If she's a fiery campaigner as well I might change my vote from plotter and schemer Cable.
But Hammond was one of the few cabinet ministers to not vote for same sex marriage. That makes him as toxic as the DUP in the eyes of the chattering classes. It's a big Achilles heel in today's politics. Rudd might be a better bet.
It was kiss me
One should always be civil. That way, your friends are comfortable, and your enemies don't see you coming until you've destroyed them.
Machiavelli wrote that men should be pampered or annihilated. The worst thing was to wound someone so they hate you but doing so feebly enough that they're still strong enough to retaliate.
As May did to Osborne.
U turn because forced to. Theresa May's election not the Conservatives election.
Honestly for me there is no candidate that if May should go that ticks all the boxes, question marks over all of them.
I would consider Davis perhaps.
There are many more issues that are more interesting. For instance, why did the K&C Planning Committee set a condition that the panels where aesthetically pleasing but not that they were fire resistant?
Really, these attempts at scapegoating are seriously distasteful. If you have evidence of irresponsibility, you should pass it to the authorities. If you don't, you and everyone else should stop smearing people.
This is getting severe.
On Swinson, she has appeal but I'll be interested to see how she positions herself in the strategic sense. I did worry with Farron that he set himself up as the anti-establishment candidate, which might have been sensible tactically if Labour hadn't gone for Corbyn. Arguably (perhaps unfairly) he was seen as the less popular of two anti-establishment populists - and that appeals to nobody.
On Cable, I like him but actually don't think he's as safe a pair of hands as he's given credit for. Student fees, Royal Mail sell-off price, and indiscrete comments on Murdoch/Sky were all on his watch at BIS. He comes across as the adult in the room, which may have merits in this environment, but I'm not sure I'd be 100% confident that the image would match the practice.
Victims to be given say in terms of reference of enquiry and free legal representation at same.
Who did warn getting any/a good Brexit deal wouldn't be easy.
She needs to go, for the sake of the country.
Please, please someone tell May to resign. This whole situation is absolutely frightening. The way McDonnell and co seem to be almost begging for civil disorder is absolutely appalling. All of my fears and reasons as to why I was so reluctant to vote Labour have resurfaced big time as a result of the way they've responsed this situation.
The government needs to get a f*cking grip and realise this isn't the time to play around a take control of this situation. I'm very scared for the future of this country, and our democracy.
https://twitter.com/jamin2g/status/875498901888958464
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4611482/Protesters-storm-Kensington-Town-Hall-Grenfell-fire.html
Masked protesters, waving sticks, great....
I really hope this doesn't turn into another Ferguson, where the media and agitators whipped up riots before any investigation (which actually found all the rumours were horseshit).
He's lucky the mob haven't twigged yet, and steamed over to Derry House for a chat. Funny how the Evening Standard is steering clear.
Many CON MPs have lost their jobs because of her foolishness and she's performed appallingly since last Friday.
What would you like the government to do?
I'm more scared for the future of our democracy if the leader of the country is toppled by a rabble in Kensington, however sad the event that precipitated it. We're made of sterner stuff than that.
Oh Mrs May ....
We do not have media-rule or mob-rule in this country.
Cameron is stabbed by Boris who is stabbed by Govey who is stabbed by May who also stabs Osborne and is about to stab Hammond before she is stabbed by the electorate.....
Its got to be Hammond ..........
Whoever takes over from May has to be trusted on Brexit and to deliver it, or the party will split.
https://youtu.be/b6CVvNRQcvE
I don't really see the appeal of Cable as leader (although, as I say, I like him and am very pleased he's back). The party needs reinventing, even rebranding. The idea of having him guide the Lib Dems through a couple of years seems a pointless displacement activity (yes the maths means the LDs are arguably more relevant to Brexit etc than their 12 seats would suggest... but they are still a distant fourth party). The idea of a 79 year old ex-cabinet minister being the fresh and exciting choice for moderates in 2022 seems outlandish.
"I think the anger is stemmed from Osborne being right."
I think lots of the anger is from the fact he was so negative week after week in the Standard that it hit the chances of Tory candidates in London seats. Of course, the editor of the Standard is under no obligation to the Tories. But equally, they are under no obligation to him. I don't think they'll welcome him back.
It's the Conservative/DUP mob that are ruling.
I am coming round to the view that Theresa May needs to stand firm despite the onslaught against her. It cannot be right for a baying mob to take down the Prime Minister of the UK assisted by the Socialist Workers Party.
The time will come for her to stand down but not now and certainly not before the recess
With May, you have to wonder as to why she even bothered running for the Conservative party leadership. She seems to not have a clue as to what direction she wants to lead this country in.
*I make a sound that sounds a lot like 'on manoeuvres'*
https://twitter.com/theobertram/status/875756378073288704
- The crushingly awful statement on Friday afternoon, where she not only seemed delusional but also failed to take responsibility, failed to apologise to those who lost their seats, and even failed to thank those who put so much effort into the campaign
- Her failure to accept that she needed to change style. She should in her first statement have made it clear she was changing her team (rather than waiting to be forced to sack Timothy and Hill), and going over to a much more collegiate approach involving senio colleagues in decision making.
- The mess over the deal with the DUP, including announcing it was agreed and then having to retract.
- Her tin ear and perceived cowardice over the Grenfell tragedy.
- The rumours that she's still listening to Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill
Against that, she did by all accounts come over much better at the 1922 Committee, but overall it's a dismal response to an already disastrous position.