politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn now Betfair favourite to be PM after TMay
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Sounds uncannily like what happened in the fifth season of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer".Jonathan said:Apparently the real Theresa May resigned weeks ago. What we have now is a stooge wearing her clothes being fed lines via a hidden earpiece.
As I remember, the BuffyBot came to a sticky end.0 -
Both could do Cabinet Minister but did not have the charisma or empathy for party leader or PM sadly, as PB probably has an above average percentage on the autistic spectrum to some degree, including most probably myself I expect we can empathise a little with Brown and MayKentRising said:
Didn't get this with Brown? The autism stuff. I dunno, maybe - maybe - they're just not very good at their jobs (like a lot of people aren't)? There doesn't have to be an 'ism' involved.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??0 -
4/1 is ludicrously long for a LotO in a hung parliament.0
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With Brown we got all the Prime Mentalist stuff. Not autistic but just straightforwardly psychotic. He was and is a complete loon - quite unsuited temperamentally to being PM.KentRising said:
Didn't get this with Brown? The autism stuff. I dunno, maybe - maybe - they're just not very good at their jobs (like a lot of people aren't)? There doesn't have to be an 'ism' involved.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
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I wonder how the residents of the tower just next to Grenfell can cope with the stress and not unreasonable fears?0
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I actually agree with you , the government whoever leads it , will stagger on from crisis to crisis losing ever more voter support until it finally gets booted out and receives a lower vote share in the next GE below that of 1997 . Zombies clinging to power for as long as they can .HYUFD said:
May and the government got 42% of the vote and almost 60 more seats than Labour whether you like it or not, there may be a new Tory leader before the next general election but the government is not going anywhereMarkSenior said:
May should do the decent and honourable thing and resign and the rest of this shower of sh1t government should follow .KentRising said:
Because it feeds into the media narrative.Pulpstar said:
Rather than do their job and report, the media smell blood and are driving the agenda towards some sort of climactic event. They probably won't relent now until May is out, or Javid is fired etc.
There has to be some sacrifice to sate the media-inspired "public anger".
Britain, in 2017.0 -
The Provos also tried to kill her father who was a part time RUC man, attacking him at the family farm and shooting him in the head.Dura_Ace said:
Arlene Foster was on a bus that got blew up by The 'RA when she was young so she might be a bit salty about JC's unwholesome obsession with men in balaclavas and ill-fitting DPM jackets.Bobajob_PB said:If so, why would they hate the Corbynator so much?
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TM & MSM spent 7 weeks kicking JC - karma kicking in !PClipp said:
Conservatives always kick people when they are down. It`s what they do.Mexicanpete said:
Surely the time has come to lay off Mrs May. Talk about kicking someone while they are down!TheScreamingEagles said:Disquiet with Mrs May is becoming a crescendo.
Her performance at Grenfell towers is becoming an issue.
How do you solve a problem like Theresa?
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/8756783372213944320 -
If they'd written them yesterday, they could have saved the postman the trouble and delivered them by hand.Casino_Royale said:I expect the MPs writing letters are all paying extra for same day delivery.
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Most successful scientists are Aspies as wellSeanT said:
I've been researching hi-funct autism for a thriller. I've read everything and I am now convinced she has it, some kind of mild Asperger's.KentRising said:
Didn't get this with Brown? The autism stuff. I dunno, maybe - maybe - they're just not very good at their jobs (like a lot of people aren't)? There doesn't have to be an 'ism' involved.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
Here are some Asperger's people discussing politicians with the syndrome - and they should know, if anyone does. Gordon Brown and May are both on the list
https://www.aspiescentral.com/threads/british-politicians-with-aspergers.11450/0 -
The two best leaders they never had are old now but still pretty combative and able to think on their feet: Michael Heseltine, Ken Clarke.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
Speaking as a non-Tory I think unless you're led by a One Nation Tory who really believes that we're all in this together you'll lose to Corbyn. I agree with him on most things except the EU and political correctness/free speech (I like the EU to the extent the Greens and Lib.Dems like it.)
Soubry's of electable age. Who else? The selection process since Thatcher seems to have populated the Tory back benches with too many right-wingers who think
there's no such thing as society
the EU is a Commie or German plot, i.e. (c) the late Nicholas Ridley.0 -
When everyone in northern Ireland insists that something that happened yesterday is a direct consequence of something that happened 300 years ago, the idea that the DUP will forget their differences with the IRA because it was all 20 years ago is pretty bizarre.
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Three of those four aren't in the Cabinet though?Patrick said:
Kwasi KwartengSeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
David Davis
Steve Baker
Dominic Raab
etc
There's any number of good, sensible and EMPATHETIC Tories to choose from.
It would be fine to go for someone like Kwasi as LOTO but your talking about Con Leader AND PM which makes the potential field much smaller.
Of course they could go for a junior minister or backbencher if they was willing to have an almost immediate election to secure a mandate... But that would be a "risk" to say the least...0 -
On the one hand it is all the new media, twitter, etc and who on earth should take any notice of that; on the other that is the media today and just like The Sun, they could win it.
On balance, for the country's sake I think she should stay. I think for all the reasons rehearsed here she is deeply flawed (although we only had her and Leadsom to choose from - some choice) but she now needs to turn that roboticism into a strength, as it was perceived to be when she took office. The country really doesn't need another election of any kind. When things have settled down she can leave.
As well as the very sensible @DecrepitJohnL's suggestions above, she should invite a few more Remainers into Cabinet with some fanfare. Whatever the vote meant on June 8th, the mood music is a softer Brexit. She needs to have a GOATs but one that is Conservative GOATs, not cross-party.
By all means bring Soubry in for heaven's sake (there are plenty more sensible Remainers) and then when, should she dare again to say "Brexit means Brexit", we all know that we have a stake in obtaining the kind of Brexit we want.0 -
I think it'd be Davis as PM, the gravitas, competence and knowledge of the detail to be able to deal with the European Council. Davis actually was at Tate & Lyle for 15 years as a senior executive, so does actually know something about running complex organisations and business. And he's tough enough: territorial SAS. And he answers questions too.Pulpstar said:Dodds and Foster will have an understanding that May will go shortly I think. On that basis they will vote through the Queens Speech.
I doubt it will be Davis as he'll be the continuity with the Brexit talks, indeed the fact those are now off indicates to my mind that the new putative leaders won't rock that boat too much. Boris and Hammond I think might well be the final two, with Davis taking a senior role to either.
Of course that all might be completely wrong.
At DexEU, I think someone like Gove, Hammond or Rudd who can master detail and brief, quickly. The junior ministers in DexEU would be whoever is required to balance up perceptions of the Secretary of State.
There's an argument for a good cop/bad cop approach to the EU negotiations from the UK point of view.
On the basis of the above, I'm backing Davis at the moment at 5/1 on Betfair, and not Boris, who I think is too short.
Again.0 -
Worried. Even people in "luxury" flats might be concerned I think.........nichomar said:I wonder how the residents of the tower just next to Grenfell can cope with the stress and not unreasonable fears?
I'd hat to be selling a London flat right about now, I think @MaxPB sold up at the right time to be honest.
#PeakLondon0 -
I don't agree at all with the tendency, without any clinical evidence or individual contact with the 'patient', to diagnose politicians and others with medical conditions.SeanT said:
I've been researching hi-funct autism for a thriller. I've read everything and I am now convinced she has it, some kind of mild Asperger's.
Here are some Asperger's people discussing politicians with the syndrome - and they should know, if anyone does. Gordon Brown and May are both on the list
https://www.aspiescentral.com/threads/british-politicians-with-aspergers.11450/
It's dangerous because it tends to mean the underlying condition is used as a form of insult, on minimal evidence, further marginalising those who actually have the condition.
So Trump is said by some to have early stage dementia, and May mild autism. There's no seriously credible evidence for either diagnosis. It's also perfectly possible, indeed far more likely in my view, that Trump is just a bit of a sh1t, and May is just somewhat introverted and lacking in political judgment. Those aren't medical conditions - we all lie somewhere on both those spectrums.0 -
Mitt Romney and Al Gore and maybe even Hillary and Nixon also probably had it to some degreeSeanT said:
I've been researching hi-funct autism for a thriller. I've read everything and I am now convinced she has it, some kind of mild Asperger's.KentRising said:
Didn't get this with Brown? The autism stuff. I dunno, maybe - maybe - they're just not very good at their jobs (like a lot of people aren't)? There doesn't have to be an 'ism' involved.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
Here are some Asperger's people discussing politicians with the syndrome - and they should know, if anyone does. Gordon Brown and May are both on the list
https://www.aspiescentral.com/threads/british-politicians-with-aspergers.11450/0 -
Not necessarily if the Tories get the right leader and dump the dementia tax and do a less hard Brexit they could do a Major 1992MarkSenior said:
I actually agree with you , the government whoever leads it , will stagger on from crisis to crisis losing ever more voter support until it finally gets booted out and receives a lower vote share in the next GE below that of 1997 . Zombies clinging to power for as long as they can .HYUFD said:
May and the government got 42% of the vote and almost 60 more seats than Labour whether you like it or not, there may be a new Tory leader before the next general election but the government is not going anywhereMarkSenior said:
May should do the decent and honourable thing and resign and the rest of this shower of sh1t government should follow .KentRising said:
Because it feeds into the media narrative.Pulpstar said:
Rather than do their job and report, the media smell blood and are driving the agenda towards some sort of climactic event. They probably won't relent now until May is out, or Javid is fired etc.
There has to be some sacrifice to sate the media-inspired "public anger".
Britain, in 2017.0 -
That's a good point - are there any One Nation tories available?rural_voter said:
The two best leaders they never had are old now but still pretty combative and able to think on their feet: Michael Heseltine, Ken Clarke.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
Speaking as a non-Tory I think unless you're led by a One Nation Tory who really believes that we're all in this together you'll lose to Corbyn. I agree with him on most things except the EU and political correctness/free speech (I like the EU to the extent the Greens and Lib.Dems like it.)
Soubry's of electable age. Who else? The selection process since Thatcher seems to have populated the Tory back benches with too many right-wingers who think
there's no such thing as society
the EU is a Commie or German plot, i.e. (c) the late Nicholas Ridley.0 -
I really don't think you can judge whether someone is on the autistic spectrum by watching them on the telly, however used they might be to being on the telly.
If anything its a bit unusual for someone not to change when a camera is shoved in front of them.
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How the f*ck did this happen, though?SeanT said:
I've been researching hi-funct autism for a thriller. I've read everything and I am now convinced she has it, some kind of mild Asperger's.KentRising said:
Didn't get this with Brown? The autism stuff. I dunno, maybe - maybe - they're just not very good at their jobs (like a lot of people aren't)? There doesn't have to be an 'ism' involved.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
Here are some Asperger's people discussing politicians with the syndrome - and they should know, if anyone does. Gordon Brown and May are both on the list
https://www.aspiescentral.com/threads/british-politicians-with-aspergers.11450/
It started so well. The decisive clear-out. The determined speech on the gates of Downing Street. The first PMQs with the Thatcheresque slapdown of Corbyn, "REMIND him of anybody?", the bitch-slap of Robertson and the work over the Summer on the Brexit position for Conference, the Speech to Congress..
And then.. the honeymoon continued... and continued... and continued.. no-one was sure why. She was like Boudicca.
And then it all blew up in her face with barely 3 weeks to go till the General Election.
Why?
HOW?0 -
Over here people inherit property, money, etc. Over there, they inherit the family grudge, vendetta, etc.Alice_Aforethought said:When everyone in northern Ireland insists that something that happened yesterday is a direct consequence of something that happened 300 years ago, the idea that the DUP will forget their differences with the IRA because it was all 20 years ago is pretty bizarre.
It is one reason I never felt compelled to return after I made my escape.0 -
Because being PM is not like running the Home Office.Casino_Royale said:
How the f*ck did this happen, though?SeanT said:
I've been researching hi-funct autism for a thriller. I've read everything and I am now convinced she has it, some kind of mild Asperger's.KentRising said:
Didn't get this with Brown? The autism stuff. I dunno, maybe - maybe - they're just not very good at their jobs (like a lot of people aren't)? There doesn't have to be an 'ism' involved.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
Here are some Asperger's people discussing politicians with the syndrome - and they should know, if anyone does. Gordon Brown and May are both on the list
https://www.aspiescentral.com/threads/british-politicians-with-aspergers.11450/
It started so well. The decisive clear-out. The determined speech on the gates of Downing Street. The first PMQs with the Thatcheresque slapdown of Corbyn, "REMIND him of anybody?", the bitch-slap of Robertson and the work over the Summer on the Brexit position for Conference, the Speech to Congress..
And then.. the honeymoon continued... and continued... and continued.. no-one was sure why. She was like Boudicca.
And then it all blew up in her face with barely 3 weeks to go till the General Election.
Why?
HOW?0 -
The more I read about it, the more information that comes out, the more I think the Grenfell Tower disaster will be a pivotal force for change:
1. A building seemingly with no functioning alarm system, or sprinkler, or fire protection, with dodgy electrics, with cladding that flashes into flame added at lowest possible cost
2. Building managed for profit by a company seemingly more interested in threatening legal action against worried residents than listening to their valid concerns
3. Assurances that the building code was followed - which raises questions about the validity of the code and the thousands of other high rise blocks housing similar low income communities
4. Recommendations dodged by the Tories in the last parliament after the Camberwell fire, the vote against ensuring housing is fit for habitation, the warnings that cuts to fire cover would be dangerous, and now May/Barwell etc running for cover
It stinks of an establishment sweeping the poor and dispossessed out of the way, making their unsafe block look pretty, then spending the least possible on it. And we've been here before in the 60s, with unsafe and disfunctional social housing built to become unlivable or dangerous very quickly.
I can't see how this doesn't further accelerate the growing mood of "enough is enough" amongst large numbers of people when it comes to cuts and the abusive attitude to the poor/sick/foreign so beloved by Dacre and many Tories. And yes, I am politicising something that is by definition political. This is the end result when saving money is the priority over safety.0 -
My problem with Davis stems from his flounce out when he resigned his seat and caused an unnecessary by-election. I don't fully trust the guy tbh.0
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There isn't a single problem we face to which Boris is the answer. His only asset is an ability to change his mind and usually get away with it. But the fact that so many people, including at least one foreign ambassador, are telling not to go there, is a hint that we should take.Casino_Royale said:
I think it'd be Davis as PM, the gravitas, competence and knowledge of the detail to be able to deal with the European Council. Davis actually was at Tate & Lyle for 15 years as a senior executive, so does actually know something about running complex organisations and business. And he's tough enough: territorial SAS. And he answers questions too.Pulpstar said:Dodds and Foster will have an understanding that May will go shortly I think. On that basis they will vote through the Queens Speech.
I doubt it will be Davis as he'll be the continuity with the Brexit talks, indeed the fact those are now off indicates to my mind that the new putative leaders won't rock that boat too much. Boris and Hammond I think might well be the final two, with Davis taking a senior role to either.
Of course that all might be completely wrong.
At DexEU, I think someone like Gove, Hammond or Rudd who can master detail and brief, quickly. The junior ministers in DexEU would be whoever is required to balance up perceptions of the Secretary of State.
There's an argument for a good cop/bad cop approach to the EU negotiations from the UK point of view.
On the basis of the above, I'm backing Davis at the moment at 5/1 on Betfair, and not Boris, who I think is too short.
Again.0 -
As the parent of a son on the autistic spectrum, please don't be offended but I am afraid your sweeping generalizations regarding autism are no more than prejudiced nonsense.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
Mrs May perhaps finds socialising with people she meets from a different social strata to herself with some discomfort. That may have more to do her upbringing than the likelihood of her being on the spectrum. I suspect Mrs May is reasonably comfortable with her peers in the Conservative Party. My son finds it difficult to socialise on any level, and let me tell you the condition is no joke.0 -
Boris Johnson is on that list. Doesn't sound the least bit plausible.SeanT said:
I've been researching hi-funct autism for a thriller. I've read everything and I am now convinced she has it, some kind of mild Asperger's.KentRising said:
Didn't get this with Brown? The autism stuff. I dunno, maybe - maybe - they're just not very good at their jobs (like a lot of people aren't)? There doesn't have to be an 'ism' involved.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
Here are some Asperger's people discussing politicians with the syndrome - and they should know, if anyone does. Gordon Brown and May are both on the list
https://www.aspiescentral.com/threads/british-politicians-with-aspergers.11450/0 -
Might as well get it out the way. The only thing that matters for us now is the transition/continuity arrangement and that gets decided last, after the divorce terms and the agreed final desitinationSouthamObserver said:Have we done this?
https://twitter.com/dngbbc/status/8756634411717632020 -
I doubt that the PCP would be comfortable with Ken leading the Brexit negotiations. The best that Clarke might do is serve as a temporary PM during a leadership election, though surely May would stay on anyway.NorthofStoke said:
If Ken Clarke is prepared to let David Davis continue then it would be the best solution as he is guaranteed to be temporary till a proper leadership election is called, is popular and would wipe the floor with Corbyn. He also exudes competence and a steady nerve.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
No, Davis himself might be the best bet. That's not saying he's not without flaws and negatives but then who isn't?0 -
I think the Tories need to have their own internal COBRA meeting and do something quickly.
May has to go. 100%. She's mentally shot.
If it is a Davis coronation, I'm happy with that. But I'd like to see people like William Hague and Michael Howard brought in from the Lords and given seats in cabinet. May made a fucking mess of things and the country needs some serious, urgent, greybeard stability.
And Corbyn needs to be kept out of office. The naive idealism of youth seems to be contagious, and there is a very (un)real prospect of Mcdonnell ended up in the Treasury if more of them vote.
I don't mind a few risks. But McDonnell and co would be a risk too far.0 -
Ed Miliband and Osborne are also on the aspie list and Boris is said to have a few traits but not full aspieSeanT said:
I've been researching hi-funct autism for a thriller. I've read everything and I am now convinced she has it, some kind of mild Asperger's.KentRising said:
Didn't get this with Brown? The autism stuff. I dunno, maybe - maybe - they're just not very good at their jobs (like a lot of people aren't)? There doesn't have to be an 'ism' involved.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
Here are some Asperger's people discussing politicians with the syndrome - and they should know, if anyone does. Gordon Brown and May are both on the list
https://www.aspiescentral.com/threads/british-politicians-with-aspergers.11450/0 -
It was a bubble. She believed their own hype, got greedy and careless. When faced with reality she catastrophically lost confidence and never recovered.Casino_Royale said:
How the f*ck did this happen, though?SeanT said:
I've been researching hi-funct autism for a thriller. I've read everything and I am now convinced she has it, some kind of mild Asperger's.KentRising said:
Didn't get this with Brown? The autism stuff. I dunno, maybe - maybe - they're just not very good at their jobs (like a lot of people aren't)? There doesn't have to be an 'ism' involved.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
Here are some Asperger's people discussing politicians with the syndrome - and they should know, if anyone does. Gordon Brown and May are both on the list
https://www.aspiescentral.com/threads/british-politicians-with-aspergers.11450/
It started so well. The decisive clear-out. The determined speech on the gates of Downing Street. The first PMQs with the Thatcheresque slapdown of Corbyn, "REMIND him of anybody?", the bitch-slap of Robertson and the work over the Summer on the Brexit position for Conference, the Speech to Congress..
And then.. the honeymoon continued... and continued... and continued.. no-one was sure why. She was like Boudicca.
And then it all blew up in her face with barely 3 weeks to go till the General Election.
Why?
HOW?
0 -
My guess is that there will be enough evidence that both Lab and Cons ignored or postponed critical advice and decisions.RochdalePioneers said:The more I read about it, the more information that comes out, the more I think the Grenfell Tower disaster will be a pivotal force for change:
1. A building seemingly with no functioning alarm system, or sprinkler, or fire protection, with dodgy electrics, with cladding that flashes into flame added at lowest possible cost
2. Building managed for profit by a company seemingly more interested in threatening legal action against worried residents than listening to their valid concerns
3. Assurances that the building code was followed - which raises questions about the validity of the code and the thousands of other high rise blocks housing similar low income communities
4. Recommendations dodged by the Tories in the last parliament after the Camberwell fire, the vote against ensuring housing is fit for habitation, the warnings that cuts to fire cover would be dangerous, and now May/Barwell etc running for cover
It stinks of an establishment sweeping the poor and dispossessed out of the way, making their unsafe block look pretty, then spending the least possible on it. And we've been here before in the 60s, with unsafe and disfunctional social housing built to become unlivable or dangerous very quickly.
I can't see how this doesn't further accelerate the growing mood of "enough is enough" amongst large numbers of people when it comes to cuts and the abusive attitude to the poor/sick/foreign so beloved by Dacre and many Tories. And yes, I am politicising something that is by definition political. This is the end result when saving money is the priority over safety.
And talking of personality traits, you seem to have done a full Liz Kendall.0 -
Davis thought we could do a trade deal with Germany after Brexit. His competence and knowledge of detail are far from proved. As for gravitas, it is in the eye of the beholder!Casino_Royale said:
I think it'd be Davis as PM, the gravitas, competence and knowledge of the detail to be able to deal with the European Council. Davis actually was at Tate & Lyle for 15 years as a senior executive, so does actually know something about running complex organisations and business. And he's tough enough: territorial SAS. And he answers questions too.Pulpstar said:Dodds and Foster will have an understanding that May will go shortly I think. On that basis they will vote through the Queens Speech.
I doubt it will be Davis as he'll be the continuity with the Brexit talks, indeed the fact those are now off indicates to my mind that the new putative leaders won't rock that boat too much. Boris and Hammond I think might well be the final two, with Davis taking a senior role to either.
Of course that all might be completely wrong.
At DexEU, I think someone like Gove, Hammond or Rudd who can master detail and brief, quickly. The junior ministers in DexEU would be whoever is required to balance up perceptions of the Secretary of State.
There's an argument for a good cop/bad cop approach to the EU negotiations from the UK point of view.
On the basis of the above, I'm backing Davis at the moment at 5/1 on Betfair, and not Boris, who I think is too short.
Again.
0 -
May's father was a Vicar like Brown so she would have had to mix with his parishionersMexicanpete said:
As the parent of a son on the autistic spectrum, please don't be offended but I am afraid your sweeping generalizations regarding autism are no more than prejudiced nonsense.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
Mrs May perhaps finds socialising with people she meets from a different social strata to herself with some discomfort. That may have more to do her upbringing than the likelihood of her being on the spectrum. I suspect Mrs May is reasonably comfortable with her peers in the Conservative Party. My son finds it difficult to socialise on any level, and let me tell you the condition is no joke.0 -
I disagree strongly with one part of your comment: I hope to fuck Sean is offended.Mexicanpete said:
As the parent of a son on the autistic spectrum, please don't be offended but I am afraid your sweeping generalizations regarding autism are no more than prejudiced nonsense.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
Mrs May perhaps finds socialising with people she meets from a different social strata to herself with some discomfort. That may have more to do her upbringing than the likelihood of her being on the spectrum. I suspect Mrs May is reasonably comfortable with her peers in the Conservative Party. My son finds it difficult to socialise on any level, and let me tell you the condition is no joke.
His was a lazy, casual, ill-informed comment and he should realise what a dick he is.0 -
There are plenty of good Tory MPs, the problem is the party itself is split on the issue of whether Britain should be business friendly and open to the world or isolationist / protectionist.Patrick said:
Kwasi KwartengSeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
David Davis
Steve Baker
Dominic Raab
etc
There's any number of good, sensible and EMPATHETIC Tories to choose from.
No leader can paper over that divide and since it is the most important issue facing the country at the moment, it leaves the party paralysed.0 -
Well, after Brexit, Germany will be the EU so he may have a pointSouthamObserver said:Davis thought we could do a trade deal with Germany after Brexit. His competence and knowledge of detail are far from proved. As for gravitas, it is in the eye of the beholder!
0 -
Corn Laws 2.0JonathanD said:
There are plenty of good Tory MPs, the problem is the party itself is split on the issue of whether Britain should be business friendly and open to the world or isolationist / protectionist.Patrick said:
Kwasi KwartengSeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
David Davis
Steve Baker
Dominic Raab
etc
There's any number of good, sensible and EMPATHETIC Tories to choose from.
No leader can paper over that divide and since it is the most important issue facing the country at the moment, it leaves the party paralysed.0 -
As Victor Hugo once asked of his publisher, ?TOPPING said:And talking of personality traits, you seem to have done a full Liz Kendall.
0 -
With all you suggest, it's still a minority administration with a difficult task. Is it likely to get more popular as time passes?Fenster said:I think the Tories need to have their own internal COBRA meeting and do something quickly.
May has to go. 100%. She's mentally shot.
If it is a Davis coronation, I'm happy with that. But I'd like to see people like William Hague and Michael Howard brought in from the Lords and given seats in cabinet. May made a fucking mess of things and the country needs some serious, urgent, greybeard stability.
And Corbyn needs to be kept out of office. The naive idealism of youth seems to be contagious, and there is a very (un)real prospect of Mcdonnell ended up in the Treasury if more of them vote.
I don't mind a few risks. But McDonnell and co would be a risk too far.0 -
Classy guy!SeanT said:
Yeah, well you can do one, as I also have close relatives on the spectrum, so I know whereof I speak.Mexicanpete said:
As the parent of a son on the autistic spectrum, please don't be offended but I am afraid your sweeping generalizations regarding autism are no more than prejudiced nonsense.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
Mrs May perhaps finds socialising with people she meets from a different social strata to herself with some discomfort. That may have more to do her upbringing than the likelihood of her being on the spectrum. I suspect Mrs May is reasonably comfortable with her peers in the Conservative Party. My son finds it difficult to socialise on any level, and let me tell you the condition is no joke.0 -
Ignorant. KCTMO is a non-profit company.RochdalePioneers said:The more I read about it, the more information that comes out, the more I think the Grenfell Tower disaster will be a pivotal force for change:
1. A building seemingly with no functioning alarm system, or sprinkler, or fire protection, with dodgy electrics, with cladding that flashes into flame added at lowest possible cost
2. Building managed for profit by a company seemingly more interested in threatening legal action against worried residents than listening to their valid concerns
3. Assurances that the building code was followed - which raises questions about the validity of the code and the thousands of other high rise blocks housing similar low income communities
4. Recommendations dodged by the Tories in the last parliament after the Camberwell fire, the vote against ensuring housing is fit for habitation, the warnings that cuts to fire cover would be dangerous, and now May/Barwell etc running for cover
It stinks of an establishment sweeping the poor and dispossessed out of the way, making their unsafe block look pretty, then spending the least possible on it. And we've been here before in the 60s, with unsafe and disfunctional social housing built to become unlivable or dangerous very quickly.
I can't see how this doesn't further accelerate the growing mood of "enough is enough" amongst large numbers of people when it comes to cuts and the abusive attitude to the poor/sick/foreign so beloved by Dacre and many Tories. And yes, I am politicising something that is by definition political. This is the end result when saving money is the priority over safety.0 -
Citation?SouthamObserver said:
Davis thought we could do a trade deal with Germany after Brexit. His competence and knowledge of detail are far from proved. As for gravitas, it is in the eye of the beholder!Casino_Royale said:
I think it'd be Davis as PM, the gravitas, competence and knowledge of the detail to be able to deal with the European Council. Davis actually was at Tate & Lyle for 15 years as a senior executive, so does actually know something about running complex organisations and business. And he's tough enough: territorial SAS. And he answers questions too.Pulpstar said:Dodds and Foster will have an understanding that May will go shortly I think. On that basis they will vote through the Queens Speech.
I doubt it will be Davis as he'll be the continuity with the Brexit talks, indeed the fact those are now off indicates to my mind that the new putative leaders won't rock that boat too much. Boris and Hammond I think might well be the final two, with Davis taking a senior role to either.
Of course that all might be completely wrong.
At DexEU, I think someone like Gove, Hammond or Rudd who can master detail and brief, quickly. The junior ministers in DexEU would be whoever is required to balance up perceptions of the Secretary of State.
There's an argument for a good cop/bad cop approach to the EU negotiations from the UK point of view.
On the basis of the above, I'm backing Davis at the moment at 5/1 on Betfair, and not Boris, who I think is too short.
Again.0 -
You as I remember were fervently anti-Jezza and now you are rowing in behind the Labour party as though it was divorced from anything to do with Jezza/Macca/Dazza.RochdalePioneers said:
As Victor Hugo once asked of his publisher, ?TOPPING said:And talking of personality traits, you seem to have done a full Liz Kendall.
(!)0 -
I admit I was surprised people were taken in for so long. I thought she was the best available at the time of her election. It took me two weeks, maybe a month, to realise she was a toom tabard, empty coat.Casino_Royale said:
How the f*ck did this happen, though?SeanT said:
I've been researching hi-funct autism for a thriller. I've read everything and I am now convinced she has it, some kind of mild Asperger's.KentRising said:
Didn't get this with Brown? The autism stuff. I dunno, maybe - maybe - they're just not very good at their jobs (like a lot of people aren't)? There doesn't have to be an 'ism' involved.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
Here are some Asperger's people discussing politicians with the syndrome - and they should know, if anyone does. Gordon Brown and May are both on the list
https://www.aspiescentral.com/threads/british-politicians-with-aspergers.11450/
It started so well. The decisive clear-out. The determined speech on the gates of Downing Street. The first PMQs with the Thatcheresque slapdown of Corbyn, "REMIND him of anybody?", the bitch-slap of Robertson and the work over the Summer on the Brexit position for Conference, the Speech to Congress..
And then.. the honeymoon continued... and continued... and continued.. no-one was sure why. She was like Boudicca.
And then it all blew up in her face with barely 3 weeks to go till the General Election.
Why?
HOW?
0 -
Agreed.IanB2 said:
There isn't a single problem we face to which Boris is the answer. His only asset is an ability to change his mind and usually get away with it. But the fact that so many people, including at least one foreign ambassador, are telling not to go there, is a hint that we should take.Casino_Royale said:
I think it'd be Davis as PM, the gravitas, competence and knowledge of the detail to be able to deal with the European Council. Davis actually was at Tate & Lyle for 15 years as a senior executive, so does actually know something about running complex organisations and business. And he's tough enough: territorial SAS. And he answers questions too.Pulpstar said:Dodds and Foster will have an understanding that May will go shortly I think. On that basis they will vote through the Queens Speech.
I doubt it will be Davis as he'll be the continuity with the Brexit talks, indeed the fact those are now off indicates to my mind that the new putative leaders won't rock that boat too much. Boris and Hammond I think might well be the final two, with Davis taking a senior role to either.
Of course that all might be completely wrong.
At DexEU, I think someone like Gove, Hammond or Rudd who can master detail and brief, quickly. The junior ministers in DexEU would be whoever is required to balance up perceptions of the Secretary of State.
There's an argument for a good cop/bad cop approach to the EU negotiations from the UK point of view.
On the basis of the above, I'm backing Davis at the moment at 5/1 on Betfair, and not Boris, who I think is too short.
Again.0 -
Mr. T, on a similar note, the exercise form of purging in bulimia means it may be radically under-diagnosed in men (who would say a man who eats a lot and exercises a shitload and is ripped has an eating disorder?).
However, there's also a trend to pathologise every little quirk or eccentricity, and I do think we overdo slapping labels on every action and every person that falls even a little bit outside the norm.
Anyway, I must be off.0 -
I don't think the Tory party is split on that issue at all. Both the Leavers and Remainers want open trade with the rest of the world and with the EU as much as possible. Any barriers to that are more likely to be imposed by the EU than by a Tory led British Government.JonathanD said:
There are plenty of good Tory MPs, the problem is the party itself is split on the issue of whether Britain should be business friendly and open to the world or isolationist / protectionist.Patrick said:
Kwasi KwartengSeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
David Davis
Steve Baker
Dominic Raab
etc
There's any number of good, sensible and EMPATHETIC Tories to choose from.
No leader can paper over that divide and since it is the most important issue facing the country at the moment, it leaves the party paralysed.
You make the mistake - certainly where the Tory party is concerned - of equating Brexit with protectionism. If anything it is exactly the reverse.0 -
Yes, I think so.Jonathan said:
It was a bubble. She believed their own hype, got greedy and careless. When faced with reality she catastrophically lost confidence and never recovered.Casino_Royale said:
How the f*ck did this happen, though?SeanT said:
I've been researching hi-funct autism for a thriller. I've read everything and I am now convinced she has it, some kind of mild Asperger's.KentRising said:
Didn't get this with Brown? The autism stuff. I dunno, maybe - maybe - they're just not very good at their jobs (like a lot of people aren't)? There doesn't have to be an 'ism' involved.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
Here are some Asperger's people discussing politicians with the syndrome - and they should know, if anyone does. Gordon Brown and May are both on the list
https://www.aspiescentral.com/threads/british-politicians-with-aspergers.11450/
It started so well. The decisive clear-out. The determined speech on the gates of Downing Street. The first PMQs with the Thatcheresque slapdown of Corbyn, "REMIND him of anybody?", the bitch-slap of Robertson and the work over the Summer on the Brexit position for Conference, the Speech to Congress..
And then.. the honeymoon continued... and continued... and continued.. no-one was sure why. She was like Boudicca.
And then it all blew up in her face with barely 3 weeks to go till the General Election.
Why?
HOW?0 -
Indeed so. The new DPM could help out but Damian Green is a charisma free zone.SeanT said:
The one good reason to keep TMay in place is - as someone else eloquently put it on here - as a kind of pinata. To absorb all the flak and vitriol from brexit, and everything else. When Breit is done she can resign, with honour, having taken all the punishment, and the Tories can rebrand under a different leader.logical_song said:
With all you suggest, it's still a minority administration with a difficult task. Is it likely to get more popular as time passes?Fenster said:I think the Tories need to have their own internal COBRA meeting and do something quickly.
May has to go. 100%. She's mentally shot.
If it is a Davis coronation, I'm happy with that. But I'd like to see people like William Hague and Michael Howard brought in from the Lords and given seats in cabinet. May made a fucking mess of things and the country needs some serious, urgent, greybeard stability.
And Corbyn needs to be kept out of office. The naive idealism of youth seems to be contagious, and there is a very (un)real prospect of Mcdonnell ended up in the Treasury if more of them vote.
I don't mind a few risks. But McDonnell and co would be a risk too far.
But, without labouring the point, I wonder if she can cope with it, mentally. A horrible position to be in. I have great sympathy for her, despite her errors.0 -
Yep they must be proud of you showing off your extensive clinical knowledge with an internet chat group.SeanT said:
Fuck off old boy. I have close relatives diagnosed with this.TOPPING said:
I disagree strongly with one part of your comment: I hope to fuck Sean is offended.Mexicanpete said:
As the parent of a son on the autistic spectrum, please don't be offended but I am afraid your sweeping generalizations regarding autism are no more than prejudiced nonsense.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
Mrs May perhaps finds socialising with people she meets from a different social strata to herself with some discomfort. That may have more to do her upbringing than the likelihood of her being on the spectrum. I suspect Mrs May is reasonably comfortable with her peers in the Conservative Party. My son finds it difficult to socialise on any level, and let me tell you the condition is no joke.
His was a lazy, casual, ill-informed comment and he should realise what a dick he is.0 -
If you think we can't do a trade deal with Germany - and the rest of the EU - then frankly you are deluded. It may not be straight forward but both sides will do a deal eventually.SouthamObserver said:
Davis thought we could do a trade deal with Germany after Brexit. His competence and knowledge of detail are far from proved. As for gravitas, it is in the eye of the beholder!Casino_Royale said:
I think it'd be Davis as PM, the gravitas, competence and knowledge of the detail to be able to deal with the European Council. Davis actually was at Tate & Lyle for 15 years as a senior executive, so does actually know something about running complex organisations and business. And he's tough enough: territorial SAS. And he answers questions too.Pulpstar said:Dodds and Foster will have an understanding that May will go shortly I think. On that basis they will vote through the Queens Speech.
I doubt it will be Davis as he'll be the continuity with the Brexit talks, indeed the fact those are now off indicates to my mind that the new putative leaders won't rock that boat too much. Boris and Hammond I think might well be the final two, with Davis taking a senior role to either.
Of course that all might be completely wrong.
At DexEU, I think someone like Gove, Hammond or Rudd who can master detail and brief, quickly. The junior ministers in DexEU would be whoever is required to balance up perceptions of the Secretary of State.
There's an argument for a good cop/bad cop approach to the EU negotiations from the UK point of view.
On the basis of the above, I'm backing Davis at the moment at 5/1 on Betfair, and not Boris, who I think is too short.
Again.0 -
“Post Brexit a UK-German deal would include free access for their cars and industrial goods, in exchange for a deal on everything else,” he said on 26 May this year.Casino_Royale said:
Citation?SouthamObserver said:
Davis thought we could do a trade deal with Germany after Brexit. His competence and knowledge of detail are far from proved. As for gravitas, it is in the eye of the beholder!Casino_Royale said:
I think it'd be Davis as PM, the gravitas, competence and knowledge of the detail to be able to deal with the European Council. Davis actually was at Tate & Lyle for 15 years as a senior executive, so does actually know something about running complex organisations and business. And he's tough enough: territorial SAS. And he answers questions too.Pulpstar said:Dodds and Foster will have an understanding that May will go shortly I think. On that basis they will vote through the Queens Speech.
I doubt it will be Davis as he'll be the continuity with the Brexit talks, indeed the fact those are now off indicates to my mind that the new putative leaders won't rock that boat too much. Boris and Hammond I think might well be the final two, with Davis taking a senior role to either.
Of course that all might be completely wrong.
At DexEU, I think someone like Gove, Hammond or Rudd who can master detail and brief, quickly. The junior ministers in DexEU would be whoever is required to balance up perceptions of the Secretary of State.
There's an argument for a good cop/bad cop approach to the EU negotiations from the UK point of view.
On the basis of the above, I'm backing Davis at the moment at 5/1 on Betfair, and not Boris, who I think is too short.
Again.
“Similar deals would be reached with other key EU nations. France would want to protect £3 billion of food and wine exports. Italy, its £1 billion fashion exports. Poland its £3 billion manufacturing exports.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/minister-for-brexit-davis-davis-eu-european-union-germany-single-market-trade-deals-unaware-mistake-a7136121.html0 -
I completely disagree with this.SeanT said:
Fair enough. And I will continue with my diagnostic speculations. Also, you're simply wrong about Trump, there is serious evidence that his syntax and vocabulary are both decayed. He used to be very articulate, believe it or not.
And Tony Blair was a pathological narcissist. I defy ANYONE to disagree with that.
In Trump's case, as people get older, they tend to decline in aspects of cognitive function. That's not a clinical diagnosis; that's life. Someone who trips over their words a bit more, or forgets what they went into the room for more often doesn't (necessarily) have early stage Alzheimer's any more than somebody who isn't as good at the triple jump as they were 50 years ago necessarily has early stage Parkinson's.
That's not to say older people can't do top jobs. Their cognitive function may have started from a very high base or, to the extent some elements have declined, they may more than make up for it in experience and accumulated wisdom (or, in Trump's case, not).
There's a huge danger in relation to mental conditions that people see them all as one big spectrum in the way that there's a spectrum between having a good memory and a poor one, or between being introverted and extroverted. There is, in most of these conditions, a qualitative difference between having the condition or not, with real differences for the life of the sufferer.
In relation to Blair, I just don't see the need to pin a medical diagnosis on him as if it somehow makes the point more powerful or insightful than saying he's an ar$ehole. It's just a form of insult that might or might not be fair, but isn't any more valid for being put in cod-psychological terms.0 -
I lobbied MPs to put him on the ballot. I donated to his 1st campaign. I recruited people to join the party and become affiliated supporters to vote for him. Its as time went on and Jezbollah became increasingly incoherent that I went right off him. It was never a policy objection, I consider myself on the left of the party and think our manifesto was the best thing we've produced in a long time.TOPPING said:
You as I remember were fervently anti-Jezza and now you are rowing in behind the Labour party as though it was divorced from anything to do with Jezza/Macca/Dazza.RochdalePioneers said:
As Victor Hugo once asked of his publisher, ?TOPPING said:And talking of personality traits, you seem to have done a full Liz Kendall.
(!)
But like PB Tories I back a winner.
0 -
Give us some then.Patrick said:
Kwasi KwartengSeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
David Davis
Steve Baker
Dominic Raab
etc
There's any number of good, sensible and EMPATHETIC Tories to choose from.0 -
I can utterly believe BoJo has few close friends. He's the sort of clown you observe from afar, in fear that if you get to close some of the custard pie will land on your face.SeanT said:
I agree. BoJo has an unusual persona (apparently he has few close friends, weirdly enough) but Aspies, nah. He empathises well and is genuinely funny.logical_song said:
Boris Johnson is on that list. Doesn't sound the least bit plausible.SeanT said:
I've been researching hi-funct autism for a thriller. I've read everything and I am now convinced she has it, some kind of mild Asperger's.KentRising said:
Didn't get this with Brown? The autism stuff. I dunno, maybe - maybe - they're just not very good at their jobs (like a lot of people aren't)? There doesn't have to be an 'ism' involved.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
Here are some Asperger's people discussing politicians with the syndrome - and they should know, if anyone does. Gordon Brown and May are both on the list
https://www.aspiescentral.com/threads/british-politicians-with-aspergers.11450/
Fnarr, fnarr .0 -
Technically they spent far too much on this block. £120k per flat. They then tried to faff around saving £15 or so per flat with fatal consequences - though I think the lack of compartments may prove to be a key factor which first allowed the fire to spread.RochdalePioneers said:The more I read about it, the more information that comes out, the more I think the Grenfell Tower disaster will be a pivotal force for change:
1. A building seemingly with no functioning alarm system, or sprinkler, or fire protection, with dodgy electrics, with cladding that flashes into flame added at lowest possible cost
2. Building managed for profit by a company seemingly more interested in threatening legal action against worried residents than listening to their valid concerns
3. Assurances that the building code was followed - which raises questions about the validity of the code and the thousands of other high rise blocks housing similar low income communities
4. Recommendations dodged by the Tories in the last parliament after the Camberwell fire, the vote against ensuring housing is fit for habitation, the warnings that cuts to fire cover would be dangerous, and now May/Barwell etc running for cover
It stinks of an establishment sweeping the poor and dispossessed out of the way, making their unsafe block look pretty, then spending the least possible on it. And we've been here before in the 60s, with unsafe and disfunctional social housing built to become unlivable or dangerous very quickly.
I can't see how this doesn't further accelerate the growing mood of "enough is enough" amongst large numbers of people when it comes to cuts and the abusive attitude to the poor/sick/foreign so beloved by Dacre and many Tories. And yes, I am politicising something that is by definition political. This is the end result when saving money is the priority over safety.
You can build very good medium-rise, i.e. ~4-storey terraced housing for less than that cost per dwelling. It can be absolutely delightful; look how well the central London squares have aged. You don't need sprinklers either.0 -
see yaSeanT said:
I don't think the obscure reaches of PB or indeed the random, geriatric thoughts of "Topping", on a Friday afternoon when everyone else is working, are much interest to the wider world.TOPPING said:
Yep they must be proud of you showing off your extensive clinical knowledge with an internet chat group.SeanT said:
Fuck off old boy. I have close relatives diagnosed with this.TOPPING said:
I disagree strongly with one part of your comment: I hope to fuck Sean is offended.Mexicanpete said:
As the parent of a son on the autistic spectrum, please don't be offended but I am afraid your sweeping generalizations regarding autism are no more than prejudiced nonsense.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
Mrs May perhaps finds socialising with people she meets from a different social strata to herself with some discomfort. That may have more to do her upbringing than the likelihood of her being on the spectrum. I suspect Mrs May is reasonably comfortable with her peers in the Conservative Party. My son finds it difficult to socialise on any level, and let me tell you the condition is no joke.
His was a lazy, casual, ill-informed comment and he should realise what a dick he is.
But this is getting unnecessarily bad tempered. I need to write a thriller. Later.0 -
Obviously it will be through the auspices of the EU but effectively no matter what they might think it will not be the EU we are looking to secure deals with but Germany and France etc. They are the power houses that we need to get agreement from.Beverley_C said:
“Post Brexit a UK-German deal would include free access for their cars and industrial goods, in exchange for a deal on everything else,” he said on 26 May this year.Casino_Royale said:
Citation?SouthamObserver said:
Davis thought we could do a trade deal with Germany after Brexit. His competence and knowledge of detail are far from proved. As for gravitas, it is in the eye of the beholder!Casino_Royale said:
I think it'd be Davis as PM, the gravitas, competence and knowledge of the detail to be able to deal with the European Council. Davis actually was at Tate & Lyle for 15 years as a senior executive, so does actually know something about running complex organisations and business. And he's tough enough: territorial SAS. And he answers questions too.Pulpstar said:Dodds and Foster will have an understanding that May will go shortly I think. On that basis they will vote through the Queens Speech.
I doubt it will be Davis as he'll be the continuity with the Brexit talks, indeed the fact those are now off indicates to my mind that the new putative leaders won't rock that boat too much. Boris and Hammond I think might well be the final two, with Davis taking a senior role to either.
Of course that all might be completely wrong.
At DexEU, I think someone like Gove, Hammond or Rudd who can master detail and brief, quickly. The junior ministers in DexEU would be whoever is required to balance up perceptions of the Secretary of State.
There's an argument for a good cop/bad cop approach to the EU negotiations from the UK point of view.
On the basis of the above, I'm backing Davis at the moment at 5/1 on Betfair, and not Boris, who I think is too short.
Again.
“Similar deals would be reached with other key EU nations. France would want to protect £3 billion of food and wine exports. Italy, its £1 billion fashion exports. Poland its £3 billion manufacturing exports.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/minister-for-brexit-davis-davis-eu-european-union-germany-single-market-trade-deals-unaware-mistake-a7136121.html
0 -
There were was a combination of factors, both long and short term that converged at the same time :Casino_Royale said:How the f*ck did this happen, though?
It started so well. The decisive clear-out. The determined speech on the gates of Downing Street. The first PMQs with the Thatcheresque slapdown of Corbyn, "REMIND him of anybody?", the bitch-slap of Robertson and the work over the Summer on the Brexit position for Conference, the Speech to Congress..
And then.. the honeymoon continued... and continued... and continued.. no-one was sure why. She was like Boudicca.
And then it all blew up in her face with barely 3 weeks to go till the General Election.
Why?
HOW?
1. Continuing dithering on BREXIT and hard BREXIT and failure to address REMAINERS.
2. General Austerity overload.
3. NHS limping from crisis to crisis.
4. Real term cuts to education.
5. PM not tested before the election.
6. Dynamic of terrorist attacks and 20,000 fewer police.
7. Manifesto fiasco - social care mess.
8. Failure to engage in debate.
9. Wooden performances during campaign
10. Limited campaign strategy overseen by favoured advisers.
11. Little vision or hope for the future.
12. Completely underestimated Jezza and his campaign and manifesto.
13. Failed to engage younger voters who this time bothered to vote.
14. Over reliance on former UKIP voters moving en-masse to Tories.
15. Failure to engage effectively on social media.
16. The Sun "wot won it" strategy failed. Mail and Express too.0 -
So as he has proven himself, although not a winner, then at least a lot better than popular opinion (on PB!) had him, are you now fully behind him? What do you make of Kendall?RochdalePioneers said:
I lobbied MPs to put him on the ballot. I donated to his 1st campaign. I recruited people to join the party and become affiliated supporters to vote for him. Its as time went on and Jezbollah became increasingly incoherent that I went right off him. It was never a policy objection, I consider myself on the left of the party and think our manifesto was the best thing we've produced in a long time.TOPPING said:
You as I remember were fervently anti-Jezza and now you are rowing in behind the Labour party as though it was divorced from anything to do with Jezza/Macca/Dazza.RochdalePioneers said:
As Victor Hugo once asked of his publisher, ?TOPPING said:And talking of personality traits, you seem to have done a full Liz Kendall.
(!)
But like PB Tories I back a winner.
I of course think he is too left wing for today's Britain but of course that's not to say Britain won't choose him.0 -
UK abandons strongly-held position immediately on engagement with the EU.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-403037610 -
Eventually.... it reminds me of the (Sun Tzu??) proverb that "If you sit by the river for long enough the bodies of all your enemies will float by"Richard_Tyndall said:If you think we can't do a trade deal with Germany - and the rest of the EU - then frankly you are deluded. It may not be straight forward but both sides will do a deal eventually.
0 -
Boris has decided to meet possible critics head on:
"There has sadly been some political game playing about the terrible fire in London. I find it unbelievable that Labour are suggesting that this tragedy was somehow caused by fire service cuts.
The fire brigade was there astonishingly quickly and performed with great bravery.
As for the record, fires in London went down 50 per cent in my mayoralty.
Fire deaths down year after year.
London has fastest appliance response times in the country.
Sadiq Khan conducted his own review of the london fire safety plan. If he felt that the provision in Kensington was deficient he had ample budget to change it.
Any attack on emergency services performance is outrageous politicking by labour."0 -
...and that proves what exactly? The old adage of the C of E being the Tory Party at prayer could be relevant. I don't imagine, although I clearly don't know for certain, that she was the sort of vicar's daughter working the soup kitchens outside Temple underground in the 1980s.HYUFD said:
May's father was a Vicar like Brown so she would have had to mix with his parishionersMexicanpete said:
As the parent of a son on the autistic spectrum, please don't be offended but I am afraid your sweeping generalizations regarding autism are no more than prejudiced nonsense.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
Mrs May perhaps finds socialising with people she meets from a different social strata to herself with some discomfort. That may have more to do her upbringing than the likelihood of her being on the spectrum. I suspect Mrs May is reasonably comfortable with her peers in the Conservative Party. My son finds it difficult to socialise on any level, and let me tell you the condition is no joke.0 -
And of course the invariable tendency of the media, and to some extent the public, to build 'em up and then knock em' down. As soon as she seemed to have an overwhelming lead she inevitably became a target, and she handled that extemely badly in the ways you've listed.JackW said:There were was a combination of factors, both long and short term that converged at the same time :
1. Continuing dithering on BREXIT and hard BREXIT and failure to address REMAINERS.
2. General Austerity overload.
3. NHS limping from crisis to crisis.
4. Real term cuts to education.
5. PM not tested before the election.
6. Dynamic of terrorist attacks and 20,000 fewer police.
7. Manifesto fiasco - social care mess.
8. Failure to engage in debate.
9. Wooden performances during campaign
10. Limited campaign strategy overseen by favoured advisers.
11. Little vision or hope for the future.
12. Completely underestimated Jezza and his campaign and manifesto.
13. Failed to engage younger voters who this time bothered to vote.
14. Over reliance on former UKIP voters moving en-masse to Tories.
15. Failure to engage effectively on social media.
16. The Sun "wot won it" strategy failed. Mail and Express too.
Corbyn will of course be in for the same treatment, with more justification, if (God forbid) he ever gets into power.0 -
May's conference speech and its attack on citizens of nowhere was protectionist. Her energy cap proposal was protectionist as appeared to be the rest of Nick Timothy's output. The focus on driving down net migration at the expense of the economy and the university sector was also protectionist.Richard_Tyndall said:
I don't think the Tory party is split on that issue at all. Both the Leavers and Remainers want open trade with the rest of the world and with the EU as much as possible. Any barriers to that are more likely to be imposed by the EU than by a Tory led British Government.JonathanD said:
There are plenty of good Tory MPs, the problem is the party itself is split on the issue of whether Britain should be business friendly and open to the world or isolationist / protectionist.Patrick said:
Kwasi KwartengSeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
David Davis
Steve Baker
Dominic Raab
etc
There's any number of good, sensible and EMPATHETIC Tories to choose from.
No leader can paper over that divide and since it is the most important issue facing the country at the moment, it leaves the party paralysed.
You make the mistake - certainly where the Tory party is concerned - of equating Brexit with protectionism. If anything it is exactly the reverse.0 -
Bromptonaut said:
UK abandons strongly-held position immediately on engagement with the EU.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40303761
So... no Brexit talks for some weeks / months yet? Thank heavens we are using the world's greatest negotiators to seal the Brexit deal before October 2018 when time runs out otherwise I would be worried.The BBC said:The UK has agreed to sort out its EU "divorce bill" and citizens' residence rights before starting Brexit trade talks, EU sources have told the BBC.
0 -
It's sensible to discuss it first and explain to the EU that the UK is owed money on a net basis. They can then choose how to respond.FF43 said:
Might as well get it out the way. The only thing that matters for us now is the transition/continuity arrangement and that gets decided last, after the divorce terms and the agreed final desitinationSouthamObserver said:Have we done this?
https://twitter.com/dngbbc/status/8756634411717632020 -
0
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Oh utter bollocks from you there. I might personally be opposed to immigration controls but even I know they are not in any way protectionist as you try to claim. That is just an utterly stupid argument.JonathanD said:
May's conference speech and its attack on citizens of nowhere was protectionist. Her energy cap proposal was protectionist as appeared to be the rest of Nick Timothy's output. The focus on driving down net migration at the expense of the economy and the university sector was also protectionist.Richard_Tyndall said:
I don't think the Tory party is split on that issue at all. Both the Leavers and Remainers want open trade with the rest of the world and with the EU as much as possible. Any barriers to that are more likely to be imposed by the EU than by a Tory led British Government.JonathanD said:
There are plenty of good Tory MPs, the problem is the party itself is split on the issue of whether Britain should be business friendly and open to the world or isolationist / protectionist.Patrick said:
Kwasi KwartengSeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
David Davis
Steve Baker
Dominic Raab
etc
There's any number of good, sensible and EMPATHETIC Tories to choose from.
No leader can paper over that divide and since it is the most important issue facing the country at the moment, it leaves the party paralysed.
You make the mistake - certainly where the Tory party is concerned - of equating Brexit with protectionism. If anything it is exactly the reverse.0 -
Here's a perspective from the high-functioning end of the spectrum. I can only speak for myself, but these traits may well apply to the PM and others:
'Empathy', whatever that really is, feels like pretending. It generally comes across as empty platitudes that, when expressed, feel fraudulent. I know what I'm *supposed* to do to appear empathetic. I've learned the things to say and to some extent even the body language etc. to the point where some people have actually complimented me on my level of understanding. But internally, I'm playing a game to which I've studied the rules. I know to others it's a genuine thing, but it feels fake, and when I see others doing it, it looks fake. Disingenuous. Going through the motions. Makes me cynical about it, even if - to 'normals' it's entirely heartfelt.
Those of us with a self-awareness of our AS tendencies can learn to conceal and work around them, but it's a big step outside of our comfort zone and hard to maintain 24/7. We learn to keep our mouths shut rather than open them and risk making things worse.
For example, when I heard about the Tower fire, most people - unless they're all playing a game too - would've been filled with sadness, compassion, shock. The human reactions we're all supposed and expected to have.
I knew I had to keep sthtum because I was instinctively thinking things like 'Maybe there's a God and he's punishing Kensington for electing a Labour MP' and 'Ooh, if 20 people die that'll probably wipe out the slim Labour majority'. 'Hundreds of thousands of people die every day across the word, why single out these ones for attention?'... Yep, I know. Totally inappropriate and makes me come across like a complete cunt, so I bite my tongue and nod along with the platitudes like a silent, cynical dog.
It's one of the things that has put me off seriously seeking elected office. I just can't be that dishonest all the time, and in my natural state I'd reinforce the baby-eating stereotype like there was no tomorrow. But, when I'm on top of a situation - setting the narrative and playing to my strengths - nobody would know any different. But in politics you have to deal with other people and other narratives.
I suspect May and Brown might both have a bit of this in them - not that I'm accusing either of them of being anywhere near as heartless a beast as I am, obviously!0 -
I decided to stop worrying a day or two after the referendum, and instead seek to maintain an attitude of detached amusement, enjoying the slow-motion car crash as best I can.Beverley_C said:Bromptonaut said:UK abandons strongly-held position immediately on engagement with the EU.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40303761
So... no Brexit talks for some weeks / months yet? Thank heavens we are using the world's greatest negotiators to seal the Brexit deal before October 2018 when time runs out otherwise I would be worried.The BBC said:The UK has agreed to sort out its EU "divorce bill" and citizens' residence rights before starting Brexit trade talks, EU sources have told the BBC.
So far I haven't been disappointed.0 -
@Richard_Nabavi do you follow @DaveHill on twitter? His blog, about politics in London, is great. He makes the same point as you re empty homes
https://twitter.com/davehill/status/8752297584387399680 -
My view on JC is the same as myself as I come up for reelection onto my CLP Exec - the best person for the job until someone better comes along.TOPPING said:
So as he has proven himself, although not a winner, then at least a lot better than popular opinion (on PB!) had him, are you now fully behind him? What do you make of Kendall?
I of course think he is too left wing for today's Britain but of course that's not to say Britain won't choose him.
Do I like some of JC's past waffle? No - but find me any politician or person who has a flawless
past. He is authentic in how right on he is - and I'll take authentic yoghurt knitter over authentic unscrupulous liar any day.
Kendall? A non-entity who seemed to think a return to the 'glories' of 2005 was a good idea. We need to look forwards not back - this bloody country always looks backwards, which is how we end up backwards compared to so many of our neighbours.0 -
Afternoon all
If anyone wondered where I was, well, you were wrong again.
Mrs Stodge and I enjoyed a 10-day break on the beautiful island of Zakynthos in a luxury hotel by the beach. Masterly inactivity ruled the roost but we did venture into the hills and the interior. There are clear signs Greece is on the way back - yes, there are still many abandoned shops and houses but fewer and signs of building work and a return of economic strength predicated, it seems, on a surge of tourism from China and South Korea.
When I left these shores, most of the evidence suggested the Conservatives under Theresa May (or was it the Theresa May Party including the Conservatives?) were heading for a big win but once I got some wifi on the morning of Friday June 9th, you can imagine my surprise.
A veritable Niagara Falls worth of water has flowed under the political bridge in my absence and trying to take it all in let alone make sense of it has been difficult.
I'll keep it local for now - my MP, Stephen Timms, was returned with an increased majority moving to 39,883. I had thought suppressed Labour turnout would take his majority down to 30,000 but I was wrong. Timms even picked up as 2.5% swing from the Conservatives as his vote share rose to 83%.
The Conservative candidate who effectively did nothing in the seat, saw her share rose to 13% while the others fought for the scraps. UKIP finished third despite not even sending an election address and the LD candidate lost a third of the miniscule 2015 vote share winning just 1.2% but it's fair to say what effort the local LDs could put in went to West Ham.
I see nothing to stop Labour sweeping all 60 seats in Newham next year and it now seems Ilford North is secure so Redbridge will probably stay in Labour hands. London's local contests next year will be of significance and it may well be the 2022 contests will take place on General Election day.
I'll talk about the LDs and Tim Farron's resignation in my next outpouring.0 -
17. No coordinated attacks on the trio's past and painting them as security threat which should have been built months before the election.JackW said:
There were was a combination of factors, both long and short term that converged at the same time :Casino_Royale said:How the f*ck did this happen, though?
It started so well. The decisive clear-out. The determined speech on the gates of Downing Street. The first PMQs with the Thatcheresque slapdown of Corbyn, "REMIND him of anybody?", the bitch-slap of Robertson and the work over the Summer on the Brexit position for Conference, the Speech to Congress..
And then.. the honeymoon continued... and continued... and continued.. no-one was sure why. She was like Boudicca.
And then it all blew up in her face with barely 3 weeks to go till the General Election.
Why?
HOW?
1. Continuing dithering on BREXIT and hard BREXIT and failure to address REMAINERS.
2. General Austerity overload.
3. NHS limping from crisis to crisis.
4. Real term cuts to education.
5. PM not tested before the election.
6. Dynamic of terrorist attacks and 20,000 fewer police.
7. Manifesto fiasco - social care mess.
8. Failure to engage in debate.
9. Wooden performances during campaign
10. Limited campaign strategy overseen by favoured advisers.
11. Little vision or hope for the future.
12. Completely underestimated Jezza and his campaign and manifesto.
13. Failed to engage younger voters who this time bothered to vote.
14. Over reliance on former UKIP voters moving en-masse to Tories.
15. Failure to engage effectively on social media.
16. The Sun "wot won it" strategy failed. Mail and Express too.
18. No coordinated attacks on his economic literacy which is a narrative that should have been built months before the election.
You can't come on the middle of a campaign and hope to to paint your opponent in a negative light, it has to be cemented in the voters minds *before* the election.0 -
thxRochdalePioneers said:
My view on JC is the same as myself as I come up for reelection onto my CLP Exec - the best person for the job until someone better comes along.TOPPING said:
So as he has proven himself, although not a winner, then at least a lot better than popular opinion (on PB!) had him, are you now fully behind him? What do you make of Kendall?
I of course think he is too left wing for today's Britain but of course that's not to say Britain won't choose him.
Do I like some of JC's past waffle? No - but find me any politician or person who has a flawless
past. He is authentic in how right on he is - and I'll take authentic yoghurt knitter over authentic unscrupulous liar any day.
Kendall? A non-entity who seemed to think a return to the 'glories' of 2005 was a good idea. We need to look forwards not back - this bloody country always looks backwards, which is how we end up backwards compared to so many of our neighbours.
Edit: to expand!!
I am truly perplexed at the move so far leftwards, but then my view is also that we are still within the GFC envelope and the consequences of that have not played out. It also of course coincides with the zeitgeist of what have I got to lose.
Fascinating times regardless; I suppose my partisan point would be that the left's experiment, if it blows up (it often does) will harm most those who can least afford it. Like Brexit, in fact.
What's your view on Brexit?0 -
Thanks, I hadn't seen his comment, but he's referring to the same report which I mentioned.isam said:@Richard_Nabavi do you follow @DaveHill on twitter? His blog, about politics in London, is great. He makes the same point as you re empty homes
https://twitter.com/davehill/status/8752297584387399680 -
No one calls it 'Aspies'! Are you just taking the piss? The term 'Asperger's Syndrome' is seldom used these days. Yes the 'autistic spectrum' is as wide as it is long, but labelling anyone who displays any social unease as being autistic is downright crass and certainly unhelpful.SeanT said:
But I also have very close relatives on the spectrum - and diagnosed as such - so I know whereof I speak. It's a long spectrum, and at the high functioning end you can be "almost normal".Mexicanpete said:
As the parent of a son on the autistic spectrum, please don't be offended but I am afraid your sweeping generalizations regarding autism are no more than prejudiced nonsense.SeanT said:
She is, as I've said for a while now, almost certainly on the autistic spectrum (at the high functioning end). Everything fits, from her obstinacy and narrow focus, to her social awkwardness and shyness, her inability to empathise, the robotic phrasing, even the facial grimaces and odd posture.Patrick said:The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever.
The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
People like this can be fabulously successful, behind the scenes - Warren Buffet, Bill Gates - they often make great writers and inventors.
But as national leaders in a social media age they are calamitously bad.
She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
Mrs May perhaps finds socialising with people she meets from a different social strata to herself with some discomfort. That may have more to do her upbringing than the likelihood of her being on the spectrum. I suspect Mrs May is reasonably comfortable with her peers in the Conservative Party. My son finds it difficult to socialise on any level, and let me tell you the condition is no joke.
Asperger's is particularly hard to spot in girls unless you know what you're looking for, because they just appear rather awkward or shy, and some "female" traits are actually reinforced - quietness, rule-following, precision.
In males Aspies is much more obvious; outright autism even more so.
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Lord Buckethead to the rescueBromptonaut said:
I decided to stop worrying a day or two after the referendum, and instead seek to maintain an attitude of detached amusement, enjoying the slow-motion car crash as best I can.Beverley_C said:Bromptonaut said:UK abandons strongly-held position immediately on engagement with the EU.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40303761
So... no Brexit talks for some weeks / months yet? Thank heavens we are using the world's greatest negotiators to seal the Brexit deal before October 2018 when time runs out otherwise I would be worried.The BBC said:The UK has agreed to sort out its EU "divorce bill" and citizens' residence rights before starting Brexit trade talks, EU sources have told the BBC.
So far I haven't been disappointed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/item/35e52bfa-8165-4de8-99b2-07898bce3dd4?intc_type=singletheme&intc_location=bbcthree&intc_campaign=bbcthree&intc_linkname=article_bucketheadbrexit_contentcard500 -
Voice of reason Michael Portillo break the bad news to Lovely Liz
https://twitter.com/jamin2g/status/8754989018889584640 -
Amazon, the world's biggest online retailer, is buying Whole Foods in a $13.7bn (£10.7bn) deal that marks its biggest push into traditional bricks-and-mortar retailing yet.
Wowzers....0 -
Sometime soon the media need to be confronted on their agenda of demanding empathy from politicians. They should be asked- how much emoting will suffice? Is it three filmed hugs, five minutes of weeping or should an MP signal virtue for at least an hour? Is it necessary to reach Lily Allen levels or will Gary Lineker standard do? I have had a gutsful of media hypocrisy in their coverage of each new horror. I have every sympathy for the victims of this tragedy. At the same time our elected representatives are not grief counsellors and they should not be judged on their acting abilities.0
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There are probably good evolutionary reasons for a lack of empathy - being able to respond quickly in a crisis without emotions clouding the judgement in extreme survival situations, something our predecessors would have been more used to dealing with than us.SirBenjamin said:Here's a perspective from the high-functioning end of the spectrum. I can only speak for myself, but these traits may well apply to the PM and others:
'Empathy', whatever that really is, feels like pretending. It generally comes across as empty platitudes that, when expressed, feel fraudulent. I know what I'm *supposed* to do to appear empathetic. I've learned the things to say and to some extent even the body language etc. to the point where some people have actually complimented me on my level of understanding. But internally, I'm playing a game to which I've studied the rules. I know to others it's a genuine thing, but it feels fake, and when I see others doing it, it looks fake. Disingenuous. Going through the motions. Makes me cynical about it, even if - to 'normals' it's entirely heartfelt.
But equally, empathy binds us together more generally - so on balance having a bigger ratio of empathic people to non-empathics was the Darwinian outcome for social groupings.
But of course all that genetic stuff has a big switch - the environment. Genes can be switched on or off by it, so in our current environment where we are bombarded by a ton of information which triggers an emotional response, to me it seems that non-empathic people (AS, or whichever 'syndrome' you want to dub them with) might be able to function and prosper better (are 'fitter') in society in general.
That still doesn't let TM off the hook, most people would look at her actions and see them through the lens of someone with empathy. Maybe if Nick and Fiona had been around they'd have advised her differently. Ah well...0 -
An EU source? They'll be spinning. A UK source would be spinning. Critical faculties should be applied when taking on these comments.Beverley_C said:Bromptonaut said:UK abandons strongly-held position immediately on engagement with the EU.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40303761
So... no Brexit talks for some weeks / months yet? Thank heavens we are using the world's greatest negotiators to seal the Brexit deal before October 2018 when time runs out otherwise I would be worried.The BBC said:The UK has agreed to sort out its EU "divorce bill" and citizens' residence rights before starting Brexit trade talks, EU sources have told the BBC.
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Yes. We'll have to wait and see what the public inquiry and the technical reports say, but we should remember that it is perfectly possible that everyone concerned with the refurbishment - the council, the management company, the architects, the contractors, the sub-contractors, the suppliers and the building inspectors who signed it all off - did everything absolutely correctly and diligently ensured that the regulations and 'best practice' were followed. The problem might simply be that the regulations and 'best practice' are wrong, but if so it's not the fault of those working on this particular project. Of course, it's also possible that corners were cut; the cladding might not have been installed correctly, for example, or the fire-barriers not properly resealed between floors. We'll just have to wait for the answers.CarlottaVance said:0 -
A politician doesn't need to turn up at a tragedy and have a full on emotional breakdown with the victims... But they do need to turn up, show respect, show sympathy, give the victims some of their time, depending on the circumstances let the victims vent their anger a bit and basically take an interest.dyingswan said:Sometime soon the media need to be confronted on their agenda of demanding empathy from politicians. They should be asked- how much emoting will suffice? Is it three filmed hugs, five minutes of weeping or should an MP signal virtue for at least an hour? Is it necessary to reach Lily Allen levels or will Gary Lineker standard do? I have had a gutsful of media hypocrisy in their coverage of each new horror. I have every sympathy for the victims of this tragedy. At the same time our elected representatives are not grief counsellors and they should not be judged on their acting abilities.
All of which Theresa May notably failed to do.0 -
Off topic.
I've just been YouGov'd on how I would have voted last week under different voting systems.
AV & SV were the two proffered alternatives.
Is @TSE on the board of YouGov now?
We should be told.0 -
We can do a trade deal with the EU, not Germany. Davis did not know this.Richard_Tyndall said:
If you think we can't do a trade deal with Germany - and the rest of the EU - then frankly you are deluded. It may not be straight forward but both sides will do a deal eventually.SouthamObserver said:
Davis thought we could do a trade deal with Germany after Brexit. His competence and knowledge of detail are far from proved. As for gravitas, it is in the eye of the beholder!Casino_Royale said:
I think it'd be Davis as PM, the gravitas, competence and knowledge of the detail to be able to deal with the European Council. Davis actually was at Tate & Lyle for 15 years as a senior executive, so does actually know something about running complex organisations and business. And he's tough enough: territorial SAS. And he answers questions too.Pulpstar said:Dodds and Foster will have an understanding that May will go shortly I think. On that basis they will vote through the Queens Speech.
I doubt it will be Davis as he'll be the continuity with the Brexit talks, indeed the fact those are now off indicates to my mind that the new putative leaders won't rock that boat too much. Boris and Hammond I think might well be the final two, with Davis taking a senior role to either.
Of course that all might be completely wrong.
At DexEU, I think someone like Gove, Hammond or Rudd who can master detail and brief, quickly. The junior ministers in DexEU would be whoever is required to balance up perceptions of the Secretary of State.
There's an argument for a good cop/bad cop approach to the EU negotiations from the UK point of view.
On the basis of the above, I'm backing Davis at the moment at 5/1 on Betfair, and not Boris, who I think is too short.
Again.
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Sky had a guardian journo on yesterday comparing this to a possible Hillsborough, where the authorities are up to no good. I found this very concerning to making such claims without any evidence, which some might say how the media incorrectly reported Hillsborough in the first place.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes. We'll have to wait and see what the public inquiry and the technical reports say, but we should remember that it is perfectly possible that everyone concerned with the refurbishment - the council, the management company, the architects, the contractors, the sub-contractors, the suppliers and the building inspectors who signed it all off - did everything absolutely correctly and diligently ensured that the regulations and 'best practice' were followed. The problem might simply be that the regulations and 'best practice' are wrong, but if so it's not the fault of those working on this particular project. Of course, it's also possible that corners were cut; the cladding might not have been installed correctly, for example, or the fire-barriers not properly resealed between floors. We'll just have to wait for the answers.CarlottaVance said:
The media stoking up that somebody must have been doing something dodgy is very worrying and leads to rent a mobs.0 -
I think that the report will find that the plastic window frames melted with the external fire which allowed the flames to access the individual flats.rural_voter said:
Technically they spent far too much on this block. £120k per flat. They then tried to faff around saving £15 or so per flat with fatal consequences - though I think the lack of compartments may prove to be a key factor which first allowed the fire to spread.RochdalePioneers said:The more I read about it, the more information that comes out, the more I think the Grenfell Tower disaster will be a pivotal force for change:
1. A building seemingly with no functioning alarm system, or sprinkler, or fire protection, with dodgy electrics, with cladding that flashes into flame added at lowest possible cost
2. Building managed for profit by a company seemingly more interested in threatening legal action against worried residents than listening to their valid concerns
3. Assurances that the building code was followed - which raises questions about the validity of the code and the thousands of other high rise blocks housing similar low income communities
4. Recommendations dodged by the Tories in the last parliament after the Camberwell fire, the vote against ensuring housing is fit for habitation, the warnings that cuts to fire cover would be dangerous, and now May/Barwell etc running for cover
It stinks of an establishment sweeping the poor and dispossessed out of the way, making their unsafe block look pretty, then spending the least possible on it. And we've been here before in the 60s, with unsafe and disfunctional social housing built to become unlivable or dangerous very quickly.
I can't see how this doesn't further accelerate the growing mood of "enough is enough" amongst large numbers of people when it comes to cuts and the abusive attitude to the poor/sick/foreign so beloved by Dacre and many Tories. And yes, I am politicising something that is by definition political. This is the end result when saving money is the priority over safety.
You can build very good medium-rise, i.e. ~4-storey terraced housing for less than that cost per dwelling. It can be absolutely delightful; look how well the central London squares have aged. You don't need sprinklers either.0 -
Not obvious to Mr Davis.Richard_Tyndall said:
Obviously it will be through the auspices of the EU but effectively no matter what they might think it will not be the EU we are looking to secure deals with but Germany and France etc. They are the power houses that we need to get agreement from.Beverley_C said:
“Post Brexit a UK-German deal would include free access for their cars and industrial goods, in exchange for a deal on everything else,” he said on 26 May this year.Casino_Royale said:
Citation?SouthamObserver said:
Davis thought we could do a trade deal with Germany after Brexit. His competence and knowledge of detail are far from proved. As for gravitas, it is in the eye of the beholder!Casino_Royale said:
I think it'd be Davis as PM, the gravitas, competence and knowledge of the detail to be able to deal with the European Council. Davis actually was at Tate & Lyle for 15 years as a senior executive, so does actually know something about running complex organisations and business. And he's tough enough: territorial SAS. And he answers questions too.Pulpstar said:Dodds and Foster will have an understanding that May will go shortly I think. On that basis they will vote through the Queens Speech.
I doubt it will be Davis as he'll be the continuity with the Brexit talks, indeed the fact those are now off indicates to my mind that the new putative leaders won't rock that boat too much. Boris and Hammond I think might well be the final two, with Davis taking a senior role to either.
Of course that all might be completely wrong.
At DexEU, I think someone like Gove, Hammond or Rudd who can master detail and brief, quickly. The junior ministers in DexEU would be whoever is required to balance up perceptions of the Secretary of State.
There's an argument for a good cop/bad cop approach to the EU negotiations from the UK point of view.
On the basis of the above, I'm backing Davis at the moment at 5/1 on Betfair, and not Boris, who I think is too short.
Again.
“Similar deals would be reached with other key EU nations. France would want to protect £3 billion of food and wine exports. Italy, its £1 billion fashion exports. Poland its £3 billion manufacturing exports.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/minister-for-brexit-davis-davis-eu-european-union-germany-single-market-trade-deals-unaware-mistake-a7136121.html
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Thanks for sharing this. Although I am a "normie" many times I have seen outpourings of empathy and thought "well they are simply doing what is expected of them, it's just a bit fake". I think it's because I normally don't show that much emotion when it comes to tragic events so I am projecting on to others which I shouldn't do.SirBenjamin said:Here's a perspective from the high-functioning end of the spectrum. I can only speak for myself, but these traits may well apply to the PM and others:
'Empathy', whatever that really is, feels like pretending. It generally comes across as empty platitudes that, when expressed, feel fraudulent. I know what I'm *supposed* to do to appear empathetic. I've learned the things to say and to some extent even the body language etc. to the point where some people have actually complimented me on my level of understanding. But internally, I'm playing a game to which I've studied the rules. I know to others it's a genuine thing, but it feels fake, and when I see others doing it, it looks fake. Disingenuous. Going through the motions. Makes me cynical about it, even if - to 'normals' it's entirely heartfelt.
Those of us with a self-awareness of our AS tendencies can learn to conceal and work around them, but it's a big step outside of our comfort zone and hard to maintain 24/7. We learn to keep our mouths shut rather than open them and risk making things worse.
For example, when I heard about the Tower fire, most people - unless they're all playing a game too - would've been filled with sadness, compassion, shock. The human reactions we're all supposed and expected to have.
I knew I had to keep sthtum because I was instinctively thinking things like 'Maybe there's a God and he's punishing Kensington for electing a Labour MP' and 'Ooh, if 20 people die that'll probably wipe out the slim Labour majority'. 'Hundreds of thousands of people die every day across the word, why single out these ones for attention?'... Yep, I know. Totally inappropriate and makes me come across like a complete cunt, so I bite my tongue and nod along with the platitudes like a silent, cynical dog.
It's one of the things that has put me off seriously seeking elected office. I just can't be that dishonest all the time, and in my natural state I'd reinforce the baby-eating stereotype like there was no tomorrow. But, when I'm on top of a situation - setting the narrative and playing to my strengths - nobody would know any different. But in politics you have to deal with other people and other narratives.
I suspect May and Brown might both have a bit of this in them - not that I'm accusing either of them of being anywhere near as heartless a beast as I am, obviously!0
