politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Prime Minister Theresa May Episode II
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The conservatives are in a strategically impossible position.
Essentially, they are trying to bridge a gap between being the party of stability, security and continuity, and also the radical insurgency (Brexit).
The two are inconsistent with one another, because achieving the latter effectively undermines the former, as it involves massive disruption. Yet they are promising people both.
All Corbyn has to do is sit there talking in vague terms about a 'jobs first Brexit', and he will absolutely tear apart the conservative party.
Every bit of bad economic data now will harm the conservative party and turn people against the 'destructive, hard brexit' being pursed by the tories. Labour doesn't even need to set out its own vision, to do so would just be ammunition to its opponents.
The conservatives risk end up losing their reputation for economic competence, and will also eventually be seen as the mis sellers of Brexit.
I have to say that this is the most astonishing turn of events politically in my lifetime. I get some satisfaction in seeing the right wing press being so profoundly undermined, but also genuinely fear a Corbyn led government.0 -
The DUP, surprisingly, want Elton John Leave:Richard_Nabavi said:Does anyone understand the DUP's Brexit position? They want a hard Brexit but no border controls, right? That's even more incoherent than the LibDem position.
But I want Leave, just a different kind
I want Leave, won't break me down
Won't brick me up, won't fence me in
I want a Leave, that don't mean a thing
That's the Leave I want, I want Leave0 -
The Land Value Tax is now on the agenda.Apparently it stems from Adam Smith.It offers a most potent vote-winner for Labour at the next election offering £hundreds off the council tax bill for the 95%.0
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I wonder how many Tories would feel the same if the situation were slightly different and the parties concerned were Labour and Sinn Fein. I don't think you need much imagination to hear the cries of horror.Sean_F said:
So long as Northern Ireland sends MPs to Westminster, it's MPs are entitled to play their part in the government of the UK.Dadge said:
Yes I think since NI switched over from SDLP-UUP to SF-DUP, deals with NI parties should've been taken right off the table. It's naive to think that because these parties are able to function as apparently normal parties in the NI setting, they are just like GB parties. Oh no.MyBurningEars said:
I quite agree. May has landed herself in Catch 22. But the problem is saying "any politician would have done it" doesn't detoxify it (or even justify it) among the younger (30s/40s, not saying that there is much fruit to be had among the 20-somethings since historically the Tories have got by without them), socially liberal voters that the Tories absolutely desperately need to win over.Sean_F said:
If you have a hung Parliament, you have to be prepared to cut deals with parties that disagree with you on some issues, in order get your business through. Jim Callaghan, and John Major cut deals with Unionists, Gordon Brown would have done, had the numbers made sense.MyBurningEars said:
How could the LGBT rights legislation change, even if the DUP demanded it (which they won't)? There are Tory backbenchers aplenty who wouldn't let it pass. Heck, a good portion of the cabinet would resign first.RobD said:
I would be very surprised if there were any changes to those pieces of legislation.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hardly. May's plans are a direct attack on the LGBT community within the Tory party. We all used to laugh at Tim and his Latvian homophobe attacks. Suddenly the homophobes are a lot closer to home.TGOHF said:
Attention seeking snowflake.Chris_A said:And so it begins twitter.com/jameswharton/status/874248105763516419
The point isn't whether the DUP will use the Tories as their vassals to impose fundamentalist Protestantism on British rights laws. It's contamination caused by who you publicly get into bed with.0 -
The trouble is it probably wouldn't. If you rent property it would just be passed on to you in your rent.volcanopete said:The Land Value Tax is now on the agenda.Apparently it stems from Adam Smith.It offers a most potent vote-winner for Labour at the next election offering £hundreds off the council tax bill for the 95%.
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Sinn Fein choose to abstain.Richard_Tyndall said:
I wonder how many Tories would feel the same if the situation were slightly different and the parties concerned were Labour and Sinn Fein. I don't think you need much imagination to hear the cries of horror.Sean_F said:
So long as Northern Ireland sends MPs to Westminster, it's MPs are entitled to play their part in the government of the UK.Dadge said:
Yes I think since NI switched over from SDLP-UUP to SF-DUP, deals with NI parties should've been taken right off the table. It's naive to think that because these parties are able to function as apparently normal parties in the NI setting, they are just like GB parties. Oh no.MyBurningEars said:
I quite agree. May has landed herself in Catch 22. But the problem is saying "any politician would have done it" doesn't detoxify it (or even justify it) among the younger (30s/40s, not saying that there is much fruit to be had among the 20-somethings since historically the Tories have got by without them), socially liberal voters that the Tories absolutely desperately need to win over.Sean_F said:
If you have a hung Parliament, you have to be prepared to cut deals with parties that disagree with you on some issues, in order get your business through. Jim Callaghan, and John Major cut deals with Unionists, Gordon Brown would have done, had the numbers made sense.MyBurningEars said:
How could the LGBT rights legislation change, even if the DUP demanded it (which they won't)? There are Tory backbenchers aplenty who wouldn't let it pass. Heck, a good portion of the cabinet would resign first.RobD said:
I would be very surprised if there were any changes to those pieces of legislation.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hardly. May's plans are a direct attack on the LGBT community within the Tory party. We all used to laugh at Tim and his Latvian homophobe attacks. Suddenly the homophobes are a lot closer to home.TGOHF said:
Attention seeking snowflake.Chris_A said:And so it begins twitter.com/jameswharton/status/874248105763516419
The point isn't whether the DUP will use the Tories as their vassals to impose fundamentalist Protestantism on British rights laws. It's contamination caused by who you publicly get into bed with.0 -
I find myself in the same positionnielh said:... I have to say that this is the most astonishing turn of events politically in my lifetime. I get some satisfaction in seeing the right wing press being so profoundly undermined, but also genuinely fear a Corbyn led government.
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So what do you suggest instead?Richard_Tyndall said:I wonder how many Tories would feel the same if the situation were slightly different and the parties concerned were Labour and Sinn Fein. I don't think you need much imagination to hear the cries of horror.
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They do but I was simply pointing out that the outcry from Tories would be deafening. Many view the DUP as little better and since they don't abstain as a more immediate threat.Sean_F said:
Sinn Fein choose to abstain.Richard_Tyndall said:
I wonder how many Tories would feel the same if the situation were slightly different and the parties concerned were Labour and Sinn Fein. I don't think you need much imagination to hear the cries of horror.Sean_F said:
So long as Northern Ireland sends MPs to Westminster, it's MPs are entitled to play their part in the government of the UK.Dadge said:
Yes I think since NI switched over from SDLP-UUP to SF-DUP, deals with NI parties should've been taken right off the table. It's naive to think that because these parties are able to function as apparently normal parties in the NI setting, they are just like GB parties. Oh no.MyBurningEars said:
I quite agree. May has landed herself in Catch 22. But the problem is saying "any politician would have done it" doesn't detoxify it (or even justify it) among the younger (30s/40s, not saying that there is much fruit to be had among the 20-somethings since historically the Tories have got by without them), socially liberal voters that the Tories absolutely desperately need to win over.Sean_F said:
If you have a hung Parliament, you have to be prepared to cut deals with parties that disagree with you on some issues, in order get your business through. Jim Callaghan, and John Major cut deals with Unionists, Gordon Brown would have done, had the numbers made sense.MyBurningEars said:
How could the LGBT rights legislation change, even if the DUP demanded it (which they won't)? There are Tory backbenchers aplenty who wouldn't let it pass. Heck, a good portion of the cabinet would resign first.RobD said:
I would be very surprised if there were any changes to those pieces of legislation.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hardly. May's plans are a direct attack on the LGBT community within the Tory party. We all used to laugh at Tim and his Latvian homophobe attacks. Suddenly the homophobes are a lot closer to home.TGOHF said:
Attention seeking snowflake.Chris_A said:And so it begins twitter.com/jameswharton/status/874248105763516419
The point isn't whether the DUP will use the Tories as their vassals to impose fundamentalist Protestantism on British rights laws. It's contamination caused by who you publicly get into bed with.0 -
I'd run a minority government.Richard_Nabavi said:
So what do you suggest instead?Richard_Tyndall said:I wonder how many Tories would feel the same if the situation were slightly different and the parties concerned were Labour and Sinn Fein. I don't think you need much imagination to hear the cries of horror.
The DUP deal is short term gain for long term pain.0 -
The DUP supported Brexit safe in the knowledge they could wave their flags and act all sad when they lost.Richard_Nabavi said:Does anyone understand the DUP's Brexit position? They want a hard Brexit but no border controls, right? That's even more incoherent than the LibDem position.
Oops.0 -
I'm sure it would, but we are where we are.Richard_Tyndall said:
They do but I was simply pointing out that the outcry from Tories would be deafening. Many view the DUP as little better and since they don't abstain as a more immediate threat.Sean_F said:
Sinn Fein choose to abstain.Richard_Tyndall said:
I wonder how many Tories would feel the same if the situation were slightly different and the parties concerned were Labour and Sinn Fein. I don't think you need much imagination to hear the cries of horror.Sean_F said:
So long as Northern Ireland sends MPs to Westminster, it's MPs are entitled to play their part in the government of the UK.Dadge said:
Yes I think since NI switched over from SDLP-UUP to SF-DUP, deals with NI parties should've been taken right off the table. It's naive to think that because these parties are able to function as apparently normal parties in the NI setting, they are just like GB parties. Oh no.MyBurningEars said:
I quite agree. May has landed herself in Catch 22. But the problem is saying "any politician would have done it" doesn't detoxify it (or even justify it) among the younger (30s/40s, not saying that there is much fruit to be had among the 20-somethings since historically the Tories have got by without them), socially liberal voters that the Tories absolutely desperately need to win over.Sean_F said:
If you have a hung Parliament, you have to be prepared to cut deals with parties that disagree with you on some issues, in order get your business through. Jim Callaghan, and John Major cut deals with Unionists, Gordon Brown would have done, had the numbers made sense.MyBurningEars said:
.RobD said:
I would be very surprised if there were any changes to those pieces of legislation.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hardly. May's plans are a direct attack on the LGBT community within the Tory party. We all used to laugh at Tim and his Latvian homophobe attacks. Suddenly the homophobes are a lot closer to home.TGOHF said:
Attention seeking snowflake.Chris_A said:And so it begins twitter.com/jameswharton/status/874248105763516419
The point isn't whether the DUP will use the Tories as their vassals to impose fundamentalist Protestantism on British rights laws. It's contamination caused by who you publicly get into bed with.0 -
I think there is little alternative but for May to resign and her successor call another election. I understand all the arguments about how disruptive this would be but I don't see the planned arrangements as stable and we are simply delaying the inevitable.Richard_Nabavi said:
So what do you suggest instead?Richard_Tyndall said:I wonder how many Tories would feel the same if the situation were slightly different and the parties concerned were Labour and Sinn Fein. I don't think you need much imagination to hear the cries of horror.
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It is going to be a minority government.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'd run a minority government.Richard_Nabavi said:
So what do you suggest instead?Richard_Tyndall said:I wonder how many Tories would feel the same if the situation were slightly different and the parties concerned were Labour and Sinn Fein. I don't think you need much imagination to hear the cries of horror.
The DUP deal is short term gain for long term pain.0 -
Off topic. Regarding Ruth Davidson: I think she is massively overrated.
She has benefitted massively from being in the position of an insurgent. That is the key to her popularity. The tories in England by contrast have been running a government for 7 years.0 -
Was something of a tiongue-in-cheek suggestion! However, TM did not have to paint herself into a corner with her statement. She effectively made it a deal with the DUP or nowt. She gave the Ulstermeen the whip hand!AlastairMeeks said:
"The SNP will never put the Tories into government." Nicola Sturgeondixiedean said:Casino_Royale said:
You forgot Anthony Eden.TheScreamingEagles said:Is it me, or are PMs who become mid Parliament the worst for their parties?
Theresa May - Nuff said
Gordon Brown - Again nuff said
Joihn Major - Ultimately saw the Tories reduced to a rump in 1997
Jim Callaghan - Should have held an election in the Autumn of 1978 when Labour were ahead in the polls, missed the boat, and helped usher in 18 years of Tory rule
Lord Home - Hospital pass
You'd probably have to say SuperMac was the last mid term PM not to seriously screw up.
Edit: he did win an election, though.
Am amazed May rushed to the Palace and made her weird statement in Downing Street without even sounding out the LD's. The other one is the SNP. New powers for Scotland, a 2nd referendum, a couple of Cabinet posts, and, more importantly, a big majority. A weakened Tory Party and Nicola (the 2 big losers of this election), could claim victory!TheScreamingEagles said:Are we missing the most obvious deal.
Con and the Lib Dems - Supply and confidence in exchange for a third referendum/referendum on the Brexit deal
Tim Farron has also ruled out any cooperation:
"If Theresa May approaches any Liberal Democrat and asks for our support to further the Conservative agenda, we will make it very clear: No deal is better than a bad deal."
http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/09/tim-farron-refuses-to-form-coalition-with-tories-because-no-deal-is-better-than-a-bad-deal-6697881/0 -
Isn't that what is happening? I thought that these talks are just about ensuring they don't vote down the QS.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'd run a minority government.Richard_Nabavi said:
So what do you suggest instead?Richard_Tyndall said:I wonder how many Tories would feel the same if the situation were slightly different and the parties concerned were Labour and Sinn Fein. I don't think you need much imagination to hear the cries of horror.
The DUP deal is short term gain for long term pain.0 -
Most governments get unpopular mid term. I expect that to happen in spades now -
Who was it who had the Tories behind in a Yougov this year bet ?
I said at the time that the election could well help that....
I expect at the next by-election the Tories will be tonked.0 -
Yup - absolutely fine, I understand that. No-one is being forced to buy ivory at the moment.MyBurningEars said:
This is a very reasonable point. But the problem is few people see into this world, and so the idea of anything made of ivory - even a hundred years ago - has passed beyond the realm of social acceptability for large parts of the population.Mortimer said:@TSE - should we ban trade in all products because some idiots misuse them?
The inland ivory trade ban was a stupid idea promoted by those who don't understand culture, history, or the antiques trade.
But the quasi-puritanical lust amongst antis to grind existing works of art into dust is literally philistinism. It should not have been pandered to in the first place.
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I have been impressed by her and the work she has done in Scotland, but I would like to see more of her before touting her as a future leader. Ideally she comes down to Westminster and has a minister role to test her before running for the leadership.nielh said:Off topic. Regarding Ruth Davidson: I think she is massively overrated.
She has benefitted massively from being in the position of an insurgent. That is the key to her popularity. The tories in England by contrast have been running a government for 7 years.0 -
Do you think given the rather err particular position the SNP some of them might go about getting stuck on a bus somewhere if there is no DUP-Con dealRichard_Nabavi said:
It is going to be a minority government.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'd run a minority government.Richard_Nabavi said:
So what do you suggest instead?Richard_Tyndall said:I wonder how many Tories would feel the same if the situation were slightly different and the parties concerned were Labour and Sinn Fein. I don't think you need much imagination to hear the cries of horror.
The DUP deal is short term gain for long term pain.
? 0 -
Thanks,Richard_Tyndall said:I think there is little alternative but for May to resign and her successor call another election. I understand all the arguments about how disruptive this would be but I don't see the planned arrangements as stable and we are simply delaying the inevitable.
Well, you might be right. However, the Article 50 clock is ticking, which is a complicating factor.0 -
All Cameron's hard work in changing the nasty party has been undone.The Tories are now the same terrorist sympathising coalition of chaos they accused Labour of being.Hugging huskies-gone- with climate change deniers in Gove and the DUP:womens rights-gone:gay rights-gone.All those Tories who believed in LGBT rights,womens rights and climate change gone too.The Tories are re-toxified and their socially liberal vote is collapsing.Lifting the ban on the ivory trade and bringing back foxhunting hardly makes the Tories look nice either ,does it?JackW said:
I've never regarded the Conservatives as an extremist party ....Richard_Nabavi said:Cheer up, we might end up with PR, and then we'd regularly have governments held to ransom by extremist parties.
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IMHO, if the Conservatives can pass a QS, then they have a duty to govern.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think there is little alternative but for May to resign and her successor call another election. I understand all the arguments about how disruptive this would be but I don't see the planned arrangements as stable and we are simply delaying the inevitable.Richard_Nabavi said:
So what do you suggest instead?Richard_Tyndall said:I wonder how many Tories would feel the same if the situation were slightly different and the parties concerned were Labour and Sinn Fein. I don't think you need much imagination to hear the cries of horror.
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At the beginning of the election campaign when the Conservatives across GB were riding high, there was a high degree of scepticism about whether the Scottish Conservatives could bag six seats. After a car crash election campaign across the UK, the Scottish Conservatives got 13 MPs, more than any year since 1983. You have to give their leader a lot of credit for what in the circumstances was a truly spectacular performance.nielh said:Off topic. Regarding Ruth Davidson: I think she is massively overrated.
She has benefitted massively from being in the position of an insurgent. That is the key to her popularity. The tories in England by contrast have been running a government for 7 years.0 -
Yup.RobD said:
Isn't that what is happening? I thought that these talks are just about ensuring they don't vote down the QS.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'd run a minority government.Richard_Nabavi said:
So what do you suggest instead?Richard_Tyndall said:I wonder how many Tories would feel the same if the situation were slightly different and the parties concerned were Labour and Sinn Fein. I don't think you need much imagination to hear the cries of horror.
The DUP deal is short term gain for long term pain.0 -
Agreed. I don't think there are any easy solutions here and I have to admit my view is driven by a long term quite intense dislike of May which this election has only helped to reinforce. So I am perhaps not the most neutral of observers on this.Richard_Nabavi said:
Thanks,Richard_Tyndall said:I think there is little alternative but for May to resign and her successor call another election. I understand all the arguments about how disruptive this would be but I don't see the planned arrangements as stable and we are simply delaying the inevitable.
Well, you might be right. However, the Article 50 clock is ticking, which is a complicating factor.0 -
She is a formidable media performer and debater, in that sense direct opposite to TM. Saw bit of the Scottish referendum debates where she more than matched Sturgeon. Management / policy skills etc. are unknown but current standard across all parties is bloody low!jonny83 said:
I have been impressed by her and the work she has done in Scotland, but I would like to see more of her before touting her as a future leader. Ideally she comes down to Westminster and has a minister role to test her before running for the leadership.nielh said:Off topic. Regarding Ruth Davidson: I think she is massively overrated.
She has benefitted massively from being in the position of an insurgent. That is the key to her popularity. The tories in England by contrast have been running a government for 7 years.0 -
Every now and again it hits me just how reckless May was and the cosmic scale of her mistake. The timing of this election was negligent in the extreme.Richard_Nabavi said:
Thanks,Richard_Tyndall said:I think there is little alternative but for May to resign and her successor call another election. I understand all the arguments about how disruptive this would be but I don't see the planned arrangements as stable and we are simply delaying the inevitable.
Well, you might be right. However, the Article 50 clock is ticking, which is a complicating factor.0 -
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Jonathan said:
Hey CR. Just a quick note to say 'hello' and that i hope that you're recovering from what must have been the most almighty shock / kick in the unmentionables. It's like 92 and 15 with knobs on.Casino_Royale said:
I'd be very surprised if that were true.Jonathan said:
Wow! What a way to destroy the Tory party.llef said:has this idea been mentioned at all today here?
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/12/nigel-farage-to-gain-brexit-role-under-dup-conservative-deal--reports.html
As ever you worked your arse off for May. Hard working members like you, Richard and JohnO (amongst others) often bear the brunt of forces beyond their control.
I appreciated your reports from Southampton and hope you get to influence the shape of the Tory party that emerges from the ashes of this defeat.
Thanks, Jonathan. That's a very generous and kind post.Jonathan said:
Hey CR. Just a quick note to say 'hello' and that i hope that you're recovering from what must have been the most almighty shock / kick in the unmentionables. It's like 92 and 15 with knobs on.Casino_Royale said:
I'd be very surprised if that were true.Jonathan said:
Wow! What a way to destroy the Tory party.llef said:has this idea been mentioned at all today here?
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/12/nigel-farage-to-gain-brexit-role-under-dup-conservative-deal--reports.html
As ever you worked your arse off for May. Hard working members like you, Richard and JohnO (amongst others) often bear the brunt of forces beyond their control.
I appreciated your reports from Southampton and hope you get to influence the shape of the Tory party that emerges from the ashes of this defeat.
I did a little bit, but nothing like how Royal Blue, Mortimer, Topping and David Herdson slaved.
I will need time to fully digest and understand the results, which deeply worry me.0 -
Yeah and the Green party are just like the KKK.Richard_Tyndall said:
Do you think that under the same circumstances the Conservatives should or would do the same deal with the BNP if they had the seats? For many people this is the equivalent.TGOHF said:
Are they ? Evidence ?Richard_Tyndall said:
Hardly. May's plans are a direct attack on the LGBT community within the Tory party. We all used to laugh at Tim and his Latvian homophobe attacks. Suddenly the homophobes are a lot closer to home.TGOHF said:
Attention seeking snowflake.Chris_A said:And so it begins https://twitter.com/jameswharton/status/874248105763516419
The DUP are not going to dictate a single comma of legislation on this topic that impacts anyone either inside or outside Ulster.
You've lost all perspective mate.0 -
It's the Third Reich Reborn?volcanopete said:
All Cameron's hard work in changing the nasty party has been undone.The Tories are now the same terrorist sympathising coalition of chaos they accused Labour of being.Hugging huskies-gone- with climate change deniers in Gove and the DUP:womens rights-gone:gay rights-gone.All those Tories who believed in LGBT rights,womens rights and climate change gone too.The Tories are re-toxified and their socially liberal vote is collapsing.Lifting the ban on the ivory trade and bringing back foxhunting hardly makes the Tories look nice either ,does it?JackW said:
I've never regarded the Conservatives as an extremist party ....Richard_Nabavi said:Cheer up, we might end up with PR, and then we'd regularly have governments held to ransom by extremist parties.
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Let's see what actually changes in government. I suspect not much.volcanopete said:
All Cameron's hard work in changing the nasty party has been undone.The Tories are now the same terrorist sympathising coalition of chaos they accused Labour of being.Hugging huskies-gone- with climate change deniers in Gove and the DUP:womens rights-gone:gay rights-gone.All those Tories who believed in LGBT rights,womens rights and climate change gone too.The Tories are re-toxified and their socially liberal vote is collapsing.Lifting the ban on the ivory trade and bringing back foxhunting hardly makes the Tories look nice either ,does it?JackW said:
I've never regarded the Conservatives as an extremist party ....Richard_Nabavi said:Cheer up, we might end up with PR, and then we'd regularly have governments held to ransom by extremist parties.
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Can Corbyn count on all his MPs to back his party at the QS? I wonder if there are still some willing to vote against Corbyn?Pulpstar said:
Do you think given the rather err particular position the SNP some of them might go about getting stuck on a bus somewhere if there is no DUP-Con dealRichard_Nabavi said:
It is going to be a minority government.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'd run a minority government.Richard_Nabavi said:
So what do you suggest instead?Richard_Tyndall said:I wonder how many Tories would feel the same if the situation were slightly different and the parties concerned were Labour and Sinn Fein. I don't think you need much imagination to hear the cries of horror.
The DUP deal is short term gain for long term pain. ?0 -
Am trying to work out if your ignorance is higher than your hyperbole.volcanopete said:
All Cameron's hard work in changing the nasty party has been undone.The Tories are now the same terrorist sympathising coalition of chaos they accused Labour of being.Hugging huskies-gone- with climate change deniers in Gove and the DUP:womens rights-gone:gay rights-gone.All those Tories who believed in LGBT rights,womens rights and climate change gone too.The Tories are re-toxified and their socially liberal vote is collapsing.Lifting the ban on the ivory trade and bringing back foxhunting hardly makes the Tories look nice either ,does it?JackW said:
I've never regarded the Conservatives as an extremist party ....Richard_Nabavi said:Cheer up, we might end up with PR, and then we'd regularly have governments held to ransom by extremist parties.
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I'm not sure I can take another day of this. Yet alone two years.Richard_Nabavi said:
Thanks,Richard_Tyndall said:I think there is little alternative but for May to resign and her successor call another election. I understand all the arguments about how disruptive this would be but I don't see the planned arrangements as stable and we are simply delaying the inevitable.
Well, you might be right. However, the Article 50 clock is ticking, which is a complicating factor.
It's embarrassing, depressing, emasculating and humiliating.0 -
I'll fucking go against almost every priniple I have and vote for Jeremy as PM if Farage is given a Brexit role. ffs, May just go. Now.Jonathan said:
Wow! What a way to destroy the Tory party.llef said:has this idea been mentioned at all today here?
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/12/nigel-farage-to-gain-brexit-role-under-dup-conservative-deal--reports.html0 -
I'd think so - Woodcock has said he wouldn't support Corbyn as PM, not that he would not oppose May.Richard_Tyndall said:
Can Corbyn count on all his MPs to back his party at the QS? I wonder if there are still some willing to vote against Corbyn?Pulpstar said:
Do you think given the rather err particular position the SNP some of them might go about getting stuck on a bus somewhere if there is no DUP-Con dealRichard_Nabavi said:
It is going to be a minority government.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'd run a minority government.Richard_Nabavi said:
So what do you suggest instead?Richard_Tyndall said:I wonder how many Tories would feel the same if the situation were slightly different and the parties concerned were Labour and Sinn Fein. I don't think you need much imagination to hear the cries of horror.
The DUP deal is short term gain for long term pain. ?0 -
Which might be a perfectly reasonable relatively minor amendment to make - but that is absolutely no excuse for actually including it in a manifesto as a hostage to fortune.Charles said:
Misrepresentation (not by you) of course. It was allowing self-certification by antique dealers that ivory pieces were pre-1947 and hence could be soldTheScreamingEagles said:
And the ivory ban, I hear that came up a lot, coupled with fox hunting it made the Tories look like the nasty party.MarqueeMark said:
Getting Kwarteng into a senior Ministerial role in short order would help enormously.isam said:
I agree, I like him.MaxPB said:Just watched a video of Kwarteng giving an interview in C4, he's just so smooth and confident. It's the complete opposite of Theresa. No nervousness, he's clearly been well briefed and he is flexible enough to answer the questions being asked. He also says that we'd only leave the single market to stop free movement and he gets the point across that Labour have the same view, one of the only politicians on our side to make that point.
He deserves a shot at the top job, we need to have a full leadership election and I hope he gets serious backing for it from some of the old guard who's time has clearly passed.
And Johnny Mercer and Rory Stewart. Penny Mordant needs a leg up too. We need to get to know these new Scottish Tories. And Kevin Foster needs to be told to take all Tory MPs and candidates on a crash-course on how to win over your constituents.
And get Gove to say that under no circumstances will the Govt. EVER give time for a Bill on fox-hunting. And if there is a Private Members Bill introduced, then any member of the Cabinet who wants to vote in favour can hand in their resignation.
Shit like that. They have got time to fix things. They need to use it WISELY.0 -
@BarristerSecret: 2017 in a single tweet. https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/8742816554014269440
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FWIW I would tell the DUP to go fuck themselves and dare them to vote down a QS and let Corbyn in.logical_song said:
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Theresa, I salute your indefatigability.
0 -
Yes. Even more remarkable when we thought we were getting a safe pair of hands to steady the ship after the EU referendum.Jonathan said:Every now and again it hits me just how reckless May was and the cosmic scale of her mistake. The timing of this election was negligent in the extreme.
0 -
May should have brought Gove back in as Justice Secretary. Since she has brought him back anyway in the face of inevitable (unfounded) criticism it should at least have been to a job where he was widely praised for his work by all sides of the House and importantly by the prison service itself.volcanopete said:0 -
I agree. A minority government with just one item on its agenda: Brexit. It might have been different if Mrs May hadn't so irresponsibly triggered Article 50 before calling an election. It means the government dancing to Labour's tune on Brexit but getting blamed by them for anything that might go wrong. It's the only option that semi-works given the numbers and the timetable. The Conservatives need Labour to at least abstain to be confident of getting their Brexit outcomes agreed.TheScreamingEagles said:
.Richard_Nabavi said:
So what do you suggest instead?Richard_Tyndall said:I wonder how many Tories would feel the same if the situation were slightly different and the parties concerned were Labour and Sinn Fein. I don't think you need much imagination to hear the cries of horror.
I'd run a minority government.
The DUP deal is short term gain for long term pain.
0 -
I do feel for you, honestly.Casino_Royale said:
I'm not sure I can take another day of this. Yet alone two years.Richard_Nabavi said:
Thanks,Richard_Tyndall said:I think there is little alternative but for May to resign and her successor call another election. I understand all the arguments about how disruptive this would be but I don't see the planned arrangements as stable and we are simply delaying the inevitable.
Well, you might be right. However, the Article 50 clock is ticking, which is a complicating factor.
It's embarrassing, depressing, emasculating and humiliating.
But equally honestly, I'm loving every last minute of this.0 -
You realise they just got 43%?volcanopete said:
All Cameron's hard work in changing the nasty party has been undone.The Tories are now the same terrorist sympathising coalition of chaos they accused Labour of being.Hugging huskies-gone- with climate change deniers in Gove and the DUP:womens rights-gone:gay rights-gone.All those Tories who believed in LGBT rights,womens rights and climate change gone too.The Tories are re-toxified and their socially liberal vote is collapsing.Lifting the ban on the ivory trade and bringing back foxhunting hardly makes the Tories look nice either ,does it?JackW said:
I've never regarded the Conservatives as an extremist party ....Richard_Nabavi said:Cheer up, we might end up with PR, and then we'd regularly have governments held to ransom by extremist parties.
0 -
Are any Tory MPs vegan? Would they feel compelled to abstain on a goat-based QS?Scott_P said:@BarristerSecret: 2017 in a single tweet. https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/874281655401426944
0 -
If this goes badly, really badly, you could end up with a Parliamentary Conservative Party smaller than the current Parliamentary Liberal Party.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes. Even more remarkable when we thought we were getting a safe pair of hands to steady the ship after the EU referendum.Jonathan said:Every now and again it hits me just how reckless May was and the cosmic scale of her mistake. The timing of this election was negligent in the extreme.
Seriously.0 -
The problem with that is that the government would be at risk of the DUP voting against them without warning on every single piece of legislation.Charles said:FWIW I would tell the DUP to go fuck themselves and dare them to vote down a QS and let Corbyn in.
0 -
I cannot see them repealing gay marriage or civil partnerships or increasing the age of consent for homosexual activity or any legal activity for that matter. I don't see the problem, people are getting worked into a frenzy about nothing.volcanopete said:0 -
Nothing can surprise me now!Beverley_C said:
It is one of these situations when, if things are not working, then why not try something else? It may not work either but what we have now is not looking good.logical_song said:
There's no guarantee that the result would be significantly different, it might work if May resigned and the Tories were led by someone different, maybe Hammond?Beverley_C said:BudG said:
Well there IS a way out of this mess. But it would require putting the interests of the country ahead of the interests of the Conservative Party. Something they seem adverse to in recent times.Richard_Nabavi said:
She now has no power to make concessions to get a deal. She can be brought down on multiple fronts, and is beholden to all sorts of vested interests. She can't ignore the narrow interests of one part of the Tory party, and she can't ignore the even narrower interests of the DUP. The EU27 won't know if she'll be there to conclude any deal, or be able to get it through parliament. And there's no way out of this mess.Jonathan said:The blank cheque that May sought for Brexit was not a good thing. She now has to look beyond the narrow interests of one part of the Tory party.
It's an unmitigated disaster for the country. There's no getting away from this. It's likely to turn out to be the most catastrophic election result of modern times.
If May were to go back to the Palace and tell Lizzie that the country needs a government that commands either a majority or a firm coalition and that the only way this might be achieved is to have another election, then there is a way out of the mess that May is responsible for.
Who knows, if they got their act together and put forward a half decent campaign and adjusted their manifesto, the Tories might even come out of it with a majority. Failing that, at least we could be left with a Labour government that is not fettered by a minor Party form Northern Ireland.
And for the avoidance of doubt, I am neither a Labour or Corbyn supporter.
If changing to Hammond would work then I would say "Do it" but it does not solve the issue of being in a minority govt.
It would not surprise me if we had three elections in quick succession: the one we just had, the next one putting Corbyn in as a minority govt and then another one to put a govt in with a proper majority.
It rather looks like a minority labour government is a nailed on certainty. So, I fear, is a brutal right wing conservative majority government further on down the road.0 -
Then they would have to abstain on every bill?SandyRentool said:
Are any Tory MPs vegan? Would they feel compelled to abstain on a goat-based QS?Scott_P said:@BarristerSecret: 2017 in a single tweet. https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/874281655401426944
0 -
Smaller than zero? That would be fascinating.Peter_the_Punter said:
If this goes badly, really badly, you could end up with a Parliamentary Conservative Party smaller than the current Parliamentary Liberal Party.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes. Even more remarkable when we thought we were getting a safe pair of hands to steady the ship after the EU referendum.Jonathan said:Every now and again it hits me just how reckless May was and the cosmic scale of her mistake. The timing of this election was negligent in the extreme.
Seriously.0 -
I think we've reached peak nonsense now.nielh said:Beverley_C said:
It is one of these situations when, if things are not working, then why not try something else? It may not work either but what we have now is not looking good.logical_song said:
There's no guarantee that the result would be significantly different, it might work if May resigned and the Tories were led by someone different, maybe Hammond?Beverley_C said:BudG said:
Well there IS a way out of this mess. But it would require putting the interests of the country ahead of the interests of the Conservative Party. Something they seem adverse to in recent times.Richard_Nabavi said:
She now has no power to make concessions to get a deal. She can be brought down on multiple fronts, and is beholden to all sorts of vested interests. She can't ignore the narrow interests of one part of the Tory party, and she can't ignore the even narrower interests of the DUP. The EU27 won't know if she'll be there to conclude any deal, or be able to get it through parliament. And there's no way out of this mess.Jonathan said:The blank cheque that May sought for Brexit was not a good thing. She now has to look beyond the narrow interests of one part of the Tory party.
It's an unmitigated disaster for the country. There's no getting away from this. It's likely to turn out to be the most catastrophic election result of modern times.
If May were to go back to the Palace and tell Lizzie that the country needs a government that commands either a majority or a firm coalition and that the only way this might be achieved is to have another election, then there is a way out of the mess that May is responsible for.
Who knows, if they got their act together and put forward a half decent campaign and adjusted their manifesto, the Tories might even come out of it with a majority. Failing that, at least we could be left with a Labour government that is not fettered by a minor Party form Northern Ireland.
And for the avoidance of doubt, I am neither a Labour or Corbyn supporter.
If changing to Hammond would work then I would say "Do it" but it does not solve the issue of being in a minority govt.
It would not surprise me if we had three elections in quick succession: the one we just had, the next one putting Corbyn in as a minority govt and then another one to put a govt in with a proper majority.
It rather looks like a minority labour government is a nailed on certainty.
0 -
Too senior a position I suspect.Richard_Tyndall said:
May should have brought Gove back in as Justice Secretary. Since she has brought him back anyway in the face of inevitable (unfounded) criticism it should at least have been to a job where he was widely praised for his work by all sides of the House and importantly by the prison service itself.volcanopete said:
Plus - Defra has to do some serious thinking and reimagining of what Brexit means.
Arguably a bigger change for them than any other department.
Michael Gove - like him or loathe him - is a dreamer and this kind of challenge gives him a chance to shine and invest his energy in the May project.0 -
I'd go minority government.
Cut VAT in half for a three month period to boost the economy.
Put together a plan to build 1million new homes.
Leave corporation tax untouched.
Come up with 2 or 3 seriously business friendly policies.
Start negotiating Brexit in a grown-up, open manner.
And put on really really really disciplined front through the summer.
Then go back to the country.
The opposition will cry foul but political opportunism is perfectly justifiable given the current clusterf*ck. Just imagine what a summer of uncertainty followed by a sharp drop in business confidence and a nasty recession would do... There'd be blood on the Tory carpets.
... and then a Corbyn govt would be a serious possibility.0 -
That would almost certainly see them through the QS, as there are bound to be abstentions from somewhere for fear or Corbyn or an election.Charles said:
FWIW I would tell the DUP to go fuck themselves and dare them to vote down a QS and let Corbyn in.logical_song said:
The Tories will be worried about the damage they could take from being unable to manage parliament thereafter. That's why they need a deal. Trouble is, until the QS is through, they also need a leader. Because any deal needs a credible Tory leader who is likely to stick around, any deal done now is unlikely to be seen as lasting and therefore might as well be short term.
Getting the QS through and then resigning immediately afterwards as Tory leader, whilst remaining caretaker PM, is a viable option for May. Presumably the QS wont contain much other than routine business and Brexit, anyway. The new leader then arrives at the end of the summer and endeavours to reach a longer term understanding with the DUP.0 -
Excellent.not_on_fire said:0 -
I also suspect that Ruth Davison and SCons will not be immune from unpopular mid term government popularity either .Pulpstar said:Most governments get unpopular mid term. I expect that to happen in spades now -
Who was it who had the Tories behind in a Yougov this year bet ?
I said at the time that the election could well help that....
I expect at the next by-election the Tories will be tonked.0 -
Come On Dave has just won the 4-15 at Brighton.
How very apt.0 -
Indeed - I just think it is a massive jump to start talking about her as the saviour of the conservatIve party. It is a unique situation in Scotland.AlastairMeeks said:
At the beginning of the election campaign when the Conservatives across GB were riding high, there was a high degree of scepticism about whether the Scottish Conservatives could bag six seats. After a car crash election campaign across the UK, the Scottish Conservatives got 13 MPs, more than any year since 1983. You have to give their leader a lot of credit for what in the circumstances was a truly spectacular performance.nielh said:Off topic. Regarding Ruth Davidson: I think she is massively overrated.
She has benefitted massively from being in the position of an insurgent. That is the key to her popularity. The tories in England by contrast have been running a government for 7 years.0 -
Nah, you'd be a bit cheerier otherwise.Sean_F said:
It's the Third Reich Reborn?volcanopete said:
All Cameron's hard work in changing the nasty party has been undone.The Tories are now the same terrorist sympathising coalition of chaos they accused Labour of being.Hugging huskies-gone- with climate change deniers in Gove and the DUP:womens rights-gone:gay rights-gone.All those Tories who believed in LGBT rights,womens rights and climate change gone too.The Tories are re-toxified and their socially liberal vote is collapsing.Lifting the ban on the ivory trade and bringing back foxhunting hardly makes the Tories look nice either ,does it?JackW said:
I've never regarded the Conservatives as an extremist party ....Richard_Nabavi said:Cheer up, we might end up with PR, and then we'd regularly have governments held to ransom by extremist parties.
0 -
Lol! Cheeky bugger. You know what I mean!ThreeQuidder said:
Smaller than zero? That would be fascinating.Peter_the_Punter said:
If this goes badly, really badly, you could end up with a Parliamentary Conservative Party smaller than the current Parliamentary Liberal Party.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes. Even more remarkable when we thought we were getting a safe pair of hands to steady the ship after the EU referendum.Jonathan said:Every now and again it hits me just how reckless May was and the cosmic scale of her mistake. The timing of this election was negligent in the extreme.
Seriously.0 -
You know that thing about Labour Party membership rising to 800k?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-402518900 -
I know the DUP are still in the political stone age, but wouldn't a cute way of gtting leverage on the government be for Arlene to ask May to 'have a look at' funding for the more deprived regions of the UK *cough* which may well suffer as a result of Brexit ?0
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Are you LGBT yourself? If not then you shouldn't presume on the behalf of others about how to feel about this deal.The_Taxman said:
I cannot see them repealing gay marriage or civil partnerships or increasing the age of consent for homosexual activity or any legal activity for that matter. I don't see the problem, people are getting worked into a frenzy about nothing.volcanopete said:0 -
Yes in theory, but in practice how many DUP MPs want another election and a Labour government?Richard_Nabavi said:
The problem with that is that the government would be at risk of the DUP voting against them without warning on every single piece of legislation.Charles said:FWIW I would tell the DUP to go fuck themselves and dare them to vote down a QS and let Corbyn in.
0 -
I think May should go in the near future. However, I think your assertion that the Tories could end up as 12 seats is a bit silly. Whoever the Tory leader might be they do have an advantage in solidifying their vote in Corbyn. He obviously motivates Labour voters but it is likely he repels Tory ones to the ballot box as well. I think the electorate has done its classic "don't know" answer at the election, just like in 1974 when asked a similar question. If the Tories were up against someone like Blair, then they should worry. I don't see Corbyn increasing his vote much further, if there was another election and the Tories lost and Labour won it, I think it would be down to Tory stay at home voters. But as I say I don't think Corbyn can grow his vote much more.Peter_the_Punter said:
If this goes badly, really badly, you could end up with a Parliamentary Conservative Party smaller than the current Parliamentary Liberal Party.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes. Even more remarkable when we thought we were getting a safe pair of hands to steady the ship after the EU referendum.Jonathan said:Every now and again it hits me just how reckless May was and the cosmic scale of her mistake. The timing of this election was negligent in the extreme.
Seriously.0 -
To bring in a Climate Change sceptic as Environment Secretary was yet another bad idea Theresa.Richard_Tyndall said:
May should have brought Gove back in as Justice Secretary. Since she has brought him back anyway in the face of inevitable (unfounded) criticism it should at least have been to a job where he was widely praised for his work by all sides of the House and importantly by the prison service itself.volcanopete said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-gove-environment-secretary-voting-record-green-issues-cabinet-reshuffle-general-election-a7785761.html0 -
Labour are 6% ahead in the polls, the tories are in meltdown, no majority and facing multiple intractible, irresolvable problems.TGOHF said:
I think we've reached peak nonsense now.nielh said:Beverley_C said:
It is one of these situations when, if things are not working, then why not try something else? It may not work either but what we have now is not looking good.logical_song said:
There's no guarantee that the result would be significantly different, it might work if May resigned and the Tories were led by someone different, maybe Hammond?Beverley_C said:BudG said:
Well there IS a way out of this mess. But it would require putting the interests of the country ahead of the interests of the Conservative Party. Something they seem adverse to in recent times.Richard_Nabavi said:
SsnipJonathan said:The blank cheque that May sought for Brexit was not a good thing. She now has to look beyond the narrow interests of one part of the Tory party.
It's an unmitigated disaster for the country. There's no getting away from this. It's likely to turn out to be the most catastrophic election result of modern times.
If May were to go back to the Palace and tell Lizzie that the country needs a government that commands either a majority or a firm coalition and that the only way this might be achieved is to have another election, then there is a way out of the mess that May is responsible for.
Who knows, if they got their act together and put forward a half decent campaign and adjusted their manifesto, the Tories might even come out of it with a majority. Failing that, at least we could be left with a Labour government that is not fettered by a minor Party form Northern Ireland.
And for the avoidance of doubt, I am neither a Labour or Corbyn supporter.
If changing to Hammond would work then I would say "Do it" but it does not solve the issue of being in a minority govt.
It would not surprise me if we had three elections in quick succession: the one we just had, the next one putting Corbyn in as a minority govt and then another one to put a govt in with a proper majority.
It rather looks like a minority labour government is a nailed on certainty.
= no confidence vote = election = new government.
Probability is that labour will not get a majority.
0 -
That appointment really scares me.volcanopete said:
I'm generally centre-left, but will vote for the sensible conservative party if there isn't a better option (voted conservative once before in the staffordshire PCC elections - mainly because the labour candidate made clear her agenda was to go after the BNP, which I didn't think was an acceptable)
The justice secretary should not be a committed homophobe full stop. Sh*te like this is what toxifies the party.0 -
I suspect you are correct. And like most politicians who start believing their own publicity, her comeuppance can't be far away (exception was Tony Blair who took years and years and years to become unpopular)nielh said:Off topic. Regarding Ruth Davidson: I think she is massively overrated.
She has benefitted massively from being in the position of an insurgent. That is the key to her popularity. The tories in England by contrast have been running a government for 7 years.0 -
6% ahead in the poll, that should say.nielh said:
Labour are 6% ahead in the polls, the tories are in meltdown, no majority and facing multiple intractible, irresolvable problems.TGOHF said:
I think we've reached peak nonsense now.nielh said:Beverley_C said:
It is one of these situations when, if things are not working, then why not try something else? It may not work either but what we have now is not looking good.logical_song said:
There's no guarantee that the result would be significantly different, it might work if May resigned and the Tories were led by someone different, maybe Hammond?Beverley_C said:BudG said:
Well there IS a way out of this mess. But it would require putting the interests of the country ahead of the interests of the Conservative Party. Something they seem adverse to in recent times.Richard_Nabavi said:
SsnipJonathan said:The blank cheque that May sought for Brexit was not a good thing. She now has to look beyond the narrow interests of one part of the Tory party.
It's an unmitigated disaster for the country. There's no getting away from this. It's likely to turn out to be the most catastrophic election result of modern times.
If May were to go back to the Palace and tell Lizzie that the country needs a government that commands either a majority or a firm coalition and that the only way this might be achieved is to have another election, then there is a way out of the mess that May is responsible for.
Who knows, if they got their act together and put forward a half decent campaign and adjusted their manifesto, the Tories might even come out of it with a majority. Failing that, at least we could be left with a Labour government that is not fettered by a minor Party form Northern Ireland.
And for the avoidance of doubt, I am neither a Labour or Corbyn supporter.
If changing to Hammond would work then I would say "Do it" but it does not solve the issue of being in a minority govt.
It would not surprise me if we had three elections in quick succession: the one we just had, the next one putting Corbyn in as a minority govt and then another one to put a govt in with a proper majority.
It rather looks like a minority labour government is a nailed on certainty.
= no confidence vote = election = new government.
Probability is that labour will not get a majority.
0 -
The DUP's negotiating strategy will be the reverse of Jessie J's:Pulpstar said:I know the DUP are still in the political stone age, but wouldn't a cute way of gtting leverage on the government be for Arlene to ask May to 'have a look at' funding for the more deprived regions of the UK *cough* which may well suffer as a result of Brexit ?
It's all about the money, money, money
We just need your money money money
It's all about the uh cha-ching cha-ching
And about the yeah b-bling b-bling0 -
@GeorgeWParker: Jacob Rees-Mogg standing to replace Andrew Tyrie as chairman of Treasury committee!0
-
1923. Thoughts?0
-
Why?Pong said:
That appointment really scares me.volcanopete said:0 -
-
The one thing that could put May on the front foot quickly would be some radical moves. Stuff that would drive Corbyn supporters up the wall. Steal a few of their policies. Go big and brave.
Grab the momentum back.
Tell the UK that, okay - I fecked up, but we all feck up sometimes and it doesn't mean we've suddenly become a useless party.
Sadly for May, I think she lacks the deftness of foot, the originality and the chutzpah to do anything but slither ever so slowly to political obliteration.0 -
There are parallels. But the difference is the Brexit clock which probably makes the option of putting Labour in as a minority and then watching them implode rather unlikely...david_herdson said:1923. Thoughts?
0 -
The wealthy Tories who led the Leave and Remain campaigns have inflicted huge damage on the country - and this is only the start. They began something that they had absolutely no control over without a semblance of planning. It is extraordinary that they are still in positions of responsibility. Boris Johnson, who did it all merely to advance his career, is our foreign secretary FFS. It's surreal.nielh said:The conservatives are in a strategically impossible position.
Essentially, they are trying to bridge a gap between being the party of stability, security and continuity, and also the radical insurgency (Brexit).
The two are inconsistent with one another, because achieving the latter effectively undermines the former, as it involves massive disruption. Yet they are promising people both.
All Corbyn has to do is sit there talking in vague terms about a 'jobs first Brexit', and he will absolutely tear apart the conservative party.
Every bit of bad economic data now will harm the conservative party and turn people against the 'destructive, hard brexit' being pursed by the tories. Labour doesn't even need to set out its own vision, to do so would just be ammunition to its opponents.
The conservatives risk end up losing their reputation for economic competence, and will also eventually be seen as the mis sellers of Brexit.
I have to say that this is the most astonishing turn of events politically in my lifetime. I get some satisfaction in seeing the right wing press being so profoundly undermined, but also genuinely fear a Corbyn led government.
0 -
Just so as we are all clear on the facts, can anybody here tell us what would be, technically speaking and politics aside, the earliest date by which we could have another election?AlastairMeeks said:
I do feel for you, honestly.Casino_Royale said:
I'm not sure I can take another day of this. Yet alone two years.Richard_Nabavi said:
Thanks,Richard_Tyndall said:I think there is little alternative but for May to resign and her successor call another election. I understand all the arguments about how disruptive this would be but I don't see the planned arrangements as stable and we are simply delaying the inevitable.
Well, you might be right. However, the Article 50 clock is ticking, which is a complicating factor.
It's embarrassing, depressing, emasculating and humiliating.
But equally honestly, I'm loving every last minute of this.
I have a feeling it may just be the optimum date for the Conservatives, but it would be nice to know anyway.0 -
Fingers crossed for a 1924 next year.david_herdson said:1923. Thoughts?
0 -
Norman Smith saying could be back on for Monday.nunu said:0 -
-
Gay people make up a notable percentage of the population. The ONS estimates about 6%nunu said:
Are you LGBT yourself? If not then you shouldn't presume on the behalf of others about how to feel about this deal.The_Taxman said:
I cannot see them repealing gay marriage or civil partnerships or increasing the age of consent for homosexual activity or any legal activity for that matter. I don't see the problem, people are getting worked into a frenzy about nothing.volcanopete said:
A much larger part of the population have a close relative who is gay or a friend or a workmate who is gay.0 -
Is this how she planned to carry out brexit? Thank god she was found out before hand.rottenborough said:
Norman Smith saying could be back on for Monday.nunu said:0 -
It is unbelievable that Gove was not sent back to Justice. He had the confidence of the legal profession and the prison service in what is now one of the most difficult jobs in government. Truss was a lightweight no mark, Grayling before her was a disaster. Hopefully his day will come again.rkrkrk said:
Too senior a position I suspect.Richard_Tyndall said:
May should have brought Gove back in as Justice Secretary. Since she has brought him back anyway in the face of inevitable (unfounded) criticism it should at least have been to a job where he was widely praised for his work by all sides of the House and importantly by the prison service itself.volcanopete said:
Plus - Defra has to do some serious thinking and reimagining of what Brexit means.
Arguably a bigger change for them than any other department.
Michael Gove - like him or loathe him - is a dreamer and this kind of challenge gives him a chance to shine and invest his energy in the May project.0 -
No, I am not LGBT.nunu said:
Are you LGBT yourself? If not then you shouldn't presume on the behalf of others about how to feel about this deal.The_Taxman said:
I cannot see them repealing gay marriage or civil partnerships or increasing the age of consent for homosexual activity or any legal activity for that matter. I don't see the problem, people are getting worked into a frenzy about nothing.volcanopete said:0 -
That'snunu said:
1. Not having to worry about their kids tuition fees.
2. Not letting Theresa The House Stealer steal their inheritances.0 -
They'd better get a bloody move on. Ascot next week and she won't miss that for anything.rottenborough said:
Norman Smith saying could be back on for Monday.nunu said:0 -
Man of the people Jeremy Corbyn was wholly absent from the Brexit debate. He should have given more of a lead. Instead all we heard from was Gisela and Kate.SouthamObserver said:
The wealthy Tories who led the Leave and Remain campaigns have inflicted huge damage on the country - and this is only the start. They began something that they had absolutely no control over without a semblance of planning. It is extraordinary that they are still in positions of responsibility. Boris Johnson, who did it all merely to advance his career, is our foreign secretary FFS. It's surreal.nielh said:The conservatives are in a strategically impossible position.
Essentially, they are trying to bridge a gap between being the party of stability, security and continuity, and also the radical insurgency (Brexit).
The two are inconsistent with one another, because achieving the latter effectively undermines the former, as it involves massive disruption. Yet they are promising people both.
All Corbyn has to do is sit there talking in vague terms about a 'jobs first Brexit', and he will absolutely tear apart the conservative party.
Every bit of bad economic data now will harm the conservative party and turn people against the 'destructive, hard brexit' being pursed by the tories. Labour doesn't even need to set out its own vision, to do so would just be ammunition to its opponents.
The conservatives risk end up losing their reputation for economic competence, and will also eventually be seen as the mis sellers of Brexit.
I have to say that this is the most astonishing turn of events politically in my lifetime. I get some satisfaction in seeing the right wing press being so profoundly undermined, but also genuinely fear a Corbyn led government.
Edit: of course we know why he was absent but that even more shows it wasn't just wealthy Tories.0 -
They might be if they distance themselves from London and May's current madness.MarkSenior said:
I also suspect that Ruth Davison and SCons will not be immune from unpopular mid term government popularity either .Pulpstar said:Most governments get unpopular mid term. I expect that to happen in spades now -
Who was it who had the Tories behind in a Yougov this year bet ?
I said at the time that the election could well help that....
I expect at the next by-election the Tories will be tonked.
0 -
Unlike 1923, the Conservatives in practice have a blocking vote. On what principles would they use it or not use it?david_herdson said:1923. Thoughts?
0 -
Not till the afternoon though. Queen's Speech at 9am?Peter_the_Punter said:
They'd better get a bloody move on. Ascot next week and she won't miss that for anything.rottenborough said:
Norman Smith saying could be back on for Monday.nunu said:0 -
@BBCNormanS: BREAKING>>>GOAT U-TURN....Damien Green says Queens Speech might be delayed after all #goatmayhem https://twitter.com/BBCNormanS/status/874290023285350401/photo/10
