politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Prime Minister Theresa May Episode II
Comments
-
No-one won it. It was like a draw in a Test Match, where one side had a big run advantage. May didn't take 20 wickets, ergo she drew. Labour saved the Test in adverse circumstances, against all odds.TheScreamingEagles said:
Theresa May won the 2017 general election, she just didn't win a majority.The_Apocalypse said:Unlike Gordon Brown, Jim Callaghan, and Theresa May John Major won a GE.
Don't go all Corbynista on us and say Corbyn/Labour won the 2017 general election.0 -
I only managed 16.4Pulpstar said:The Ashfield result was astoundingly good for the Tories in the context of the night.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashfield_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
UKIP + Con + 66 votes from 2015.
Is there anywhere else in England and Wales the Tories went up 19.3% ?
0 -
So they were never on course for a 100+ landslide.SouthamObserver said:0 -
If TOPPING is a Euro fanatic, God knows what that makes Tim Farron.Richard_Tyndall said:
Of course I am not wrong. There is a long list of areas - actually everything outside of the specifics of the Single Market - that is not controlled by the EU if we move to EFTA.TOPPING said:
I wouldn't have me down as a fanatical Europhile. To the naked eye, EEA/EFTA is the same as the EU. You can bleat about the nuances of the EFTA Court vs the ECJ (and do you think there will be greater or less convergence between the two ahead?) and scweam and scweam that we don't understand, but, Richard, you are wrong and you know it.Richard_Tyndall said:
There is nothing illogical about it at all. The scope and range of the influence of any of the EFTA institutions upon us is absolutely miniscule compared to the EU. No one is suggesting we should cut ourselves off from the world. What we are saying is that our interactions with our countries should be bound by strictly limited treaties from which we can withdraw if we chose, not by self perpetuating and self governing institutions which influence almost every aspects of our lives.TOPPING said:
I get that point. In principle. But as ever it is the devil in the details. It is an emotive "cry freedom" view that of course is perfectly legitimate. But it is a false premise. These are the people who voted Leave to reclaim sovereignty but, as has been confirmed by David "Arch Brexiter" Davis, we were always sovereign, it was just that "it didn't feel like it".
So when someone says "thank god we are out of the EU and yes I'd be happy with the EEA/EFTA" it is the height of illogicality and I think an interesting topic for debate.
Only the most fanatical Europhiles like yourself fail to see the difference.
We have always been sovereign, you want to sign us up to a convention which is substantially the same as the one you have just voted to leave, and all you can do is flail around wishing it wasn't so.
If you think the EU is just the single market then you are even more ignorant than I thought.
Some of the areas not covered by the EEA
Agriculture
Economic affairs
Education
External Trade
Fisheries
Foreign Policy
Justice and Home Affairs
Security Policy
There are loads more and of course we remove ourselves from the possibility of 'creep' that we currently see with the ECJ and the EU. No more self amending treaties or decisions from the ECJ based on Ever Closer Union.
EEA membership is whole magnitudes better for us than EU membership. Only you fanatics try and hide that because you are frightened people might accept it as a good result and so be happier about leaving the EU.
0 -
win
verb
1.
be successful or victorious in (a contest or conflict).
===
May didn't win then. She got the most seats, but no-one can argue that she succeeded and is certainly not victorious.
Corbyn arguably did succeed in meeting his original goals. But again not yet a victor.0 -
That is exactly the same mistake Cameron made and look where that got him.Barnesian said:
To threaten no deal is MAD. Mutually Assured Destruction. If I don't get what I want I'll pull the pin. But it is not a real threat because the EU know we are rational agents and wouldn't carry out the threat. We'd cave at the last minute.Richard_Tyndall said:
The first is something I could agree to entirely. I said months ago we should have unilaterally done this. It would have shown we were honest brokers in this whole negotiation and it would have had the added very important bonus of being the right thing to do no matter what the other side do. I think it was deeply dumb not to do this.Barnesian said:I think there are three elements of Brexit which will be changed by Labour amendments to the Queens Speech. I believe these will have majority support in the House.
1. To unilaterally give residence rights to EU nationals and not use them as a bargaining chip.
2. To drop the target of less than 100,000 net immigrants that was only in the manifesto to attract UKIP voters.
3. To drop the idea that" no deal is better than a bad deal." This is only useful in a negotiation in the sense that a threat to shoot yourself in the head if you don't get your own way is useful.
The second doesn't concern me at all because I have no issue with immigration.
The last one is the deal breaker. If the EU knows we have removed the possibility of rejecting a bad deal there is absolutely no pressure on them to negotiate at all. In spite of what the Eurofanatic morons on here say, there will currently be a negotiation and the EU does want a reasonable result and do fear we would just walk away. If that threat is gone they will do nothing at all except try to impose a solution. It would be Cameron's non-negotiations all over again. It is a truly dumb idea.
Now if Liam Fox was PM it might have some weight.0 -
Because the mutuality is not symmetric. They would be hurt by it, but we would be destroyed.Richard_Nabavi said:
If it's Mutually Assured Destruction (and I agree with you on that), then it's not a real threat for them to use either. So why wouldn't they be the ones who'd 'cave at the last minute' and give us a reasonable deal?Barnesian said:To threaten no deal is MAD. Mutually Assured Destruction. If I don't get what I want I'll pull the pin. But it is not a real threat because the EU know we are rational agents and wouldn't carry out the threat. We'd cave at the last minute.
0 -
Which at least proves the election disaster was nothing to do with Brexit and everything to do with Theresa The House Stealer and WFA.SouthamObserver said:0 -
The optics of delaying the Queens Speech are terrible short-term.
If it helps deliver a Govt to hold off the Corbyn election 'surge' for a year or two then it's worth it as will be long-forgotten BUT if this all falls apart and there's another 2017 election then it all feeds in to the memory of Tory chaos for voters....0 -
So May resigns and by magic, she recommends the Queen call Richard Nabavi to form an administration. What would you do?Richard_Nabavi said:
If it's Mutually Assured Destruction (and I agree with you on that), then it's not a real threat for them to use either. So why wouldn't they be the ones who'd 'cave at the last minute' and give us a reasonable deal?Barnesian said:To threaten no deal is MAD. Mutually Assured Destruction. If I don't get what I want I'll pull the pin. But it is not a real threat because the EU know we are rational agents and wouldn't carry out the threat. We'd cave at the last minute.
0 -
Says it all really. The election flipped because of Tory own goals.SouthamObserver said:
0 -
24.6 here, though it's a bit sui generis: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14000642Tissue_Price said:
I only managed 16.4Pulpstar said:The Ashfield result was astoundingly good for the Tories in the context of the night.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashfield_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
UKIP + Con + 66 votes from 2015.
Is there anywhere else in England and Wales the Tories went up 19.3% ?0 -
Well, true, but nonetheless the fact still remains that it is in both sides' interests to do a deal. The only difference is that the UK government acknowledges this, whereas the EU27 persist in saying (at least in public) that we can't even begin discussing a deal. It's not the UK that's being difficult.williamglenn said:Because the mutuality is not symmetric. They would be hurt by it, but we would be destroyed.
0 -
Is that an offer?Casino_Royale said:
Kill me.TheScreamingEagles said:Are we missing the most obvious deal.
Con and the Lib Dems - Supply and confidence in exchange for a third referendum/referendum on the Brexit deal
Several problems in descending order I think:
1) The Lib Dems have promised no deals in any circumstances.
2) I'd expect tens of thousands of LD members to resign instantly if the Tories were enabled to pursue their Brexit negotiations.
3) Would the Tories accept contraints on their negotiating position? Hard to see what they would accept that could be offered - the parties are polar opposites now.
4) The revocability of A50 still hasn't been settled.
5) The Lib Dems know that if there was a half decent deal the Tories would squash them in any referendum with the Government and Vote Leave machine still in place, AV all over again.
I think the Tories would have to guarantee continued single market access and full guarantees to all EU nationals AND Westminster PR without a referendum to get past 1) above. And I know hell will freeze over long before that happens.0 -
Just the 30% swing against the incumbent party.Tissue_Price said:
24.6 here, though it's a bit sui generis: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14000642Tissue_Price said:
I only managed 16.4Pulpstar said:The Ashfield result was astoundingly good for the Tories in the context of the night.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashfield_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
UKIP + Con + 66 votes from 2015.
Is there anywhere else in England and Wales the Tories went up 19.3% ?0 -
Corbyn is in the Brown position hereJonathan said:win
verb
1.
be successful or victorious in (a contest or conflict).
===
May didn't win then. She got the most seats, but no-one can argue that she succeeded and is certainly not victorious.
Corbyn arguably did succeed in meeting his original goals. But again not yet a victor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gkHwU4DRA80 -
Ask the editor of the Evening Standard to lunch.Jonathan said:
So May resigns and by magic, she recommends the Queen call Richard Nabavi to form an administration. What would you do?Richard_Nabavi said:
If it's Mutually Assured Destruction (and I agree with you on that), then it's not a real threat for them to use either. So why wouldn't they be the ones who'd 'cave at the last minute' and give us a reasonable deal?Barnesian said:To threaten no deal is MAD. Mutually Assured Destruction. If I don't get what I want I'll pull the pin. But it is not a real threat because the EU know we are rational agents and wouldn't carry out the threat. We'd cave at the last minute.
0 -
Trouble was Richard it wasn't just the well off being whacked. Look at the results in places on the south coast with relatively high house prices and an elderly population. I wouldn't describe Worthing East as overly affluent but astonishingly May has turned it into a semi marginal.Richard_Nabavi said:
Remind me, which party pledged to keep the Triple Lock, protect the Winter Fuel Allowance, and vehemently opposed a change to social care funding in order to protect the heirs of the well-off?Pong said:The tories are the old peoples party with nothing to offer the u35's - and little to offer the u45's.
0 -
The Tories are allowed to blame the voters. It's only pathetic behaviour when it comes form the left.The_Apocalypse said:LOL at blaming millennials for creating chaos. There is no obligation nor duty to vote for the Conservative Party. They are not owed a majority. It's this kind of entitlement to govern from the Conservative Party which is precisely why they lost their majority in the first place. Some of this site have been so bitter towards my generation, it's one of the reasons why I'm enjoying this GE result.
Moreover, it's hardly as if the next Conservative government had they won a majority under May, would have actually addressed the concerns Millennials have anyway. The issue with the Conservative manifesto is that while it took things away from the baby boomers, it said very little in the way of helping JAMS and young people - that is one of the reasons why the manifesto was so unpopular with pretty much everyone. There was very little in there for 65+, the middle-aged, and young people to like.0 -
Too right I want to celebrate. It's an absolutely fantastic outcome; all the better for being totally unexpected. She wanted to crush the saboteurs:Casino_Royale said:
That's a very unfair, and slightly nasty, post.SouthamObserver said:
She chose to frame the election in the way that she did. She colluded with the right wing press to make it a patriots v saboteurs contest. She decided to paint the Europeans as the enemy and to accuse them of interfering in the electoral process. She chose to walk hand in hand with Trump. I can't feel sorry for her given that she essentially labelled people like me traitors. I don't think I have ever been happier at an election result. This beats 1997 by a distance. At least John Major was a decent man.Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I'm feeling sorry for Theresa May now.
This is probably a fatal sentiment for her. But I genuinely think her motives were good and she meant well.
She is a lifelong loyal Tory, loves her party, and she will be devastated at what has happened to it.
I don't think she's even begun to label people who disagree with her as traitors, most of her parliamentary support and cabinet came from Remain. And her decency is absolutely beyond question.
Go away and have a lie down.
I think the last four days have gone to your head, you're not sure what to make of it, and despite the fact you failed to cast a ballot for anyone you want to celebrate regardless.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/854449280865767425
0 -
If the LDs did any sort of deal with the Tories they'd lose all the Scottish seats they've just regained and probably most of their English seats too. Not going to happen.TheScreamingEagles said:Are we missing the most obvious deal.
Con and the Lib Dems - Supply and confidence in exchange for a third referendum/referendum on the Brexit deal0 -
-
-
That's because the policy was so abysmally presented that the opposition parties got their 'Dementia Tax' label attached to it before the Conservatives had even begun to explain what it was about.midwinter said:Trouble was Richard it wasn't just the well off being whacked. Look at the results in places on the south coast with relatively high house prices and an elderly population. I wouldn't describe Worthing East as overly affluent but astonishingly May has turned it into a semi marginal.
0 -
Pathetic.SouthamObserver said:
Too right I want to celebrate. It's an absolutely fantastic outcome; all the better for being totally unexpected. She wanted to crush the saboteurs:Casino_Royale said:
That's a very unfair, and slightly nasty, post.SouthamObserver said:
She chose to frame the election in the way that she did. She colluded with the right wing press to make it a patriots v saboteurs contest. She decided to paint the Europeans as the enemy and to accuse them of interfering in the electoral process. She chose to walk hand in hand with Trump. I can't feel sorry for her given that she essentially labelled people like me traitors. I don't think I have ever been happier at an election result. This beats 1997 by a distance. At least John Major was a decent man.Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I'm feeling sorry for Theresa May now.
This is probably a fatal sentiment for her. But I genuinely think her motives were good and she meant well.
She is a lifelong loyal Tory, loves her party, and she will be devastated at what has happened to it.
I don't think she's even begun to label people who disagree with her as traitors, most of her parliamentary support and cabinet came from Remain. And her decency is absolutely beyond question.
Go away and have a lie down.
I think the last four days have gone to your head, you're not sure what to make of it, and despite the fact you failed to cast a ballot for anyone you want to celebrate regardless.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/8544492808657674250 -
Indeed. Her public persona is hard to warm to.The_Apocalypse said:
Also, she is not likeable. She comes across as being in a constant state of smugness.Bobajob_PB said:I see the hard right are calling for Patel to be given the leadership.
Presumably a central plank of her campaign would be to bring back hanging?
The woman is a prize idiot. What people see in her is beyond me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DrsVhzbLzU
FPT.
Priti would be electoral suicide. She's a very divisive figure and if anything doubles up on many of the negatives of May! If you were going on these criteria someone like Kwasi Kwarteng would be a far superior choice but I do not think he is in the running. (At this stage he really looks like a future PM contender, and is absolutely wasted on the back benches. In terms of talent management, he and a couple of others are really overdue a promotion so we can see just whether they can step up to the plate, while there are some people in cabinet - Liz Truss springs to mind - whose backers once saw them as future stars but who no longer look like genuine mustard-cutters.)Patrick said:
Interesting choice. The replacement for May needs to be :Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
£3 of that is mine, backing the awesome PritiMorris_Dancer said:Blimey. Over £8m bet on the next PM market on Betfair.
1. Young enough
2. Engaging and articulate
3. Sensible
4. Likeable
5. A Tory not a TINO or Miliband channeler
6. Reasonable looking in this TV age
7. Different, interesting, new.
I think they could do alot worse than Priti Patel.0 -
More her reaction to it. May lost the votes of the young (under 44s), not the old.GIN1138 said:
Which at least proves the election disaster was nothing to do with Brexit and everything to do with Theresa The House Stealer and WFA.SouthamObserver said:
0 -
I would call someone a denialist if they tried to claim Unionist tactical voting did not occur.TheScreamingEagles said:
Proof of tactical unionist voting?AlastairMeeks said:
Screamingly clear tactical voting. Mostly incredibly well targeted. But plenty of seats where the tactical vote split leaving massive scope for huge SNP seat losses at the next election.0 -
Priti please!MyBurningEars said:
Indeed. Her public persona is hard to warm to.The_Apocalypse said:
Also, she is not likeable. She comes across as being in a constant state of smugness.Bobajob_PB said:I see the hard right are calling for Patel to be given the leadership.
Presumably a central plank of her campaign would be to bring back hanging?
The woman is a prize idiot. What people see in her is beyond me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DrsVhzbLzU
FPT.
Priti would be electoral suicide. She's a very divisive figure and if anything doubles up on many of the negatives of May! If you were going on these criteria someone like Kwasi Kwarteng would be a far superior choice but I do not think he is in the running. (At this stage he really looks like a future PM contender, and is absolutely wasted on the back benches. In terms of talent management, he and a couple of others are really overdue a promotion so we can see just whether they can step up to the plate, while there are some people in cabinet - Liz Truss springs to mind - whose backers once saw them as future stars but who no longer look like genuine mustard-cutters.)Patrick said:
Interesting choice. The replacement for May needs to be :Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
£3 of that is mine, backing the awesome PritiMorris_Dancer said:Blimey. Over £8m bet on the next PM market on Betfair.
1. Young enough
2. Engaging and articulate
3. Sensible
4. Likeable
5. A Tory not a TINO or Miliband channeler
6. Reasonable looking in this TV age
7. Different, interesting, new.
I think they could do alot worse than Priti Patel.0 -
I'm trying to work out what Ruth Davidson as PM would be like.
I'm thinking a Unionist Cleggite who is fairly hawkish on defence.0 -
Indeed. And before we rewrite the history books also bear in mind his omni-shambles period in office helped to decimate Tories in local government. To indicate the scale of this look at the result in ultra safe Tonbridge and Malling in the 2017 GE. In 1995 thanks to huge Tory unpopularity the council was captured by a Lib/Lab alliance which even retained power in 1999. It took until 2003 before the Tories regained enough credibility locally to regain office. Even normally hugely Tory Kent County Council fell under opposition control in that dismal period. Tories in local gov't under May are numerically very strong currently.Richard_Tyndall said:
I am not sure we should be thanking Major if he was responsible for New Labour.HYUFD said:
It kept Kinnock out and forced Labour to become New Labour under Blair, the Tories and the country owe Major a lotJonathan said:
Fat lot of good that did him.The_Apocalypse said:Unlike Gordon Brown, Jim Callaghan, and Theresa May John Major won a GE.
0 -
Not strange at all. Stormont is a Northern Ireland Assembly. Devolved government sees power taken away from London and put into the hands of the Irish.Peter_the_Punter said:
And yet they particpated in Stormont. Strange.OblitusSumMe said:
Sinn Fein will not take up their seats in the House of Commons.Peter_the_Punter said:
SF can change its policy at the drop of a hat though, especially a bowler hat.DearPB said:
Actually the Tories are helped a little. SF not taking those 9 seats makes the practical majority required 296 (against 322 now) and the Tories would therefore be able to govern alone with more comfort.Peter_the_Punter said:
Wow! The DUP aren't going to allow that.SouthamObserver said:
Look at the DUP and Sinn Fein seats:stevef said:A question which no one seems able to answer is: will the 2018 constituency boundaries be implemented given the new parliamentary arithmetic? Will it get through the Commons?. Because if it does get through, and an election can be put off until then, Labour may well find its curent hubris to be premature.
https://twitter.com/ElectCalculus/status/874225962287857664
It's not just that they won't swear allegiance to the Queen, or that they want out of the UK, it's that they see the British Government as a foreign government and a hostile occupying power at that. It is therefore unthinkable that they would participate in the House of Commons as part of a British government.0 -
Totally agree. She deserved to lose and deserves no pity.Casino_Royale said:
Pathetic.SouthamObserver said:
Too right I want to celebrate. It's an absolutely fantastic outcome; all the better for being totally unexpected. She wanted to crush the saboteurs:Casino_Royale said:
That's a very unfair, and slightly nasty, post.SouthamObserver said:
She chose to frame the election in the way that she did. She colluded with the right wing press to make it a patriots v saboteurs contest. She decided to paint the Europeans as the enemy and to accuse them of interfering in the electoral process. She chose to walk hand in hand with Trump. I can't feel sorry for her given that she essentially labelled people like me traitors. I don't think I have ever been happier at an election result. This beats 1997 by a distance. At least John Major was a decent man.Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I'm feeling sorry for Theresa May now.
This is probably a fatal sentiment for her. But I genuinely think her motives were good and she meant well.
She is a lifelong loyal Tory, loves her party, and she will be devastated at what has happened to it.
I don't think she's even begun to label people who disagree with her as traitors, most of her parliamentary support and cabinet came from Remain. And her decency is absolutely beyond question.
Go away and have a lie down.
I think the last four days have gone to your head, you're not sure what to make of it, and despite the fact you failed to cast a ballot for anyone you want to celebrate regardless.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/854449280865767425
0 -
Stewart Hosie looks safe from tactical voting next time round.Alistair said:
I would call someone a denialist if they tried to claim Unionist tactical voting di not occur.TheScreamingEagles said:
Proof of tactical unionist voting?AlastairMeeks said:
Screamingly clear tactical voting. Mostly incredibly well targeted. But plenty of seats where the tactical vote split leaving massive scope for huge SNP seat losses at the next election.0 -
Ooooh, which if the 6 super injunctions could this be about?Theuniondivvie said:That thing when you lift a rock not knowing what's going to pop out.
https://twitter.com/RupertMyers/status/8738461431590830080 -
2018 A-Level Politics Question
Which is the biggest fuck up?
a) The 2016 EU Referendum
b) The 2017 General Election
Discuss.0 -
Like riding her tank into Westminster?Casino_Royale said:I'm trying to work out what Ruth Davidson as PM would be like.
I'm thinking a Unionist Cleggite who is fairly hawkish on defence.0 -
The first rule of super injunction club...Alistair said:
Ooooh, which if the 6 super injunctions could this be about?Theuniondivvie said:That thing when you lift a rock not knowing what's going to pop out.
https://twitter.com/RupertMyers/status/8738461431590830080 -
Theresa was riding on a honeymoon period by using rhetoric that tried to please "everyone". There was always going to be some drop off from that when she had to detail an actual political platform.SouthamObserver said:0 -
I fear Ruth will be heading for a fall shortly...Casino_Royale said:I'm trying to work out what Ruth Davidson as PM would be like.
I'm thinking a Unionist Cleggite who is fairly hawkish on defence.0 -
Hi there, new member, I have a potentially lurid betting situation:
BF exchange have not settled their 'PM after GE' market. It is being live traded right now with TM at 1.2 and BoJo and Jezza joint 2nd favs at 20.
Their settlement rules say they settle on 'the formation of the 1st govt after assent is given by the Queen following the GE'.
Now TM has been to the palace and has done a reshuffle and has held her 1st cabinet meeting. Yet BF are still trading the market. I have tried to get from them a clear statement of just what concrete event they are waiting for that will trigger settlement. No dice. Cannot get clarity.
I am worried since I stand to drop a packet if this market settles as anybody other than TM.
So,
(i) What do we think? Is it acceptable for them to trade a market without a clear explanation of what settles it?
(ii) If I end up losing do I have an actionable complaint given the above and given that the whole of the rest of the bookies industry has (I believe) settled this bet as TM?
(iii) What do we make of those odds - 1.2 TM and 20s for BJ and JC?
Cheers.0 -
You seem to assume that's necessarily a concluded series.Jonathan said:2018 A-Level Politics Question
Which is the biggest fuck up?
a) The 2016 EU Referendum
b) The 2017 General Election
Discuss.
0 -
Yes I think this is very fair. My criticism of Ken/Hezza was only that, though they could probably have matched 1992, the thing that we're criticising Major for is 1992-1997 and they would possibly have been even worse at that period.TheScreamingEagles said:
They would have done in the short term between Thatcher falling and the general election in 1991/1992.MyBurningEars said:
I find it hard to believe the Tory party could have lined up foursquare behind Heseltine/Clarke... the splits may have been worse than Major faced and you could have ended up with a wipeout a few years earlier than 1997. Though perhaps I'm being harsh on Ken/Hezza.TheScreamingEagles said:
I reckon a Heseltine or a Clarke would have gotten a similar result in 1992.MyBurningEars said:
Think this judgment is harsh on Major. In the circumstances he was dealt he surely did better than "par". Obviously election night 1997 was an awful time to be a Tory - but of the candidates on offer, how many of them could have managed 1992?TheScreamingEagles said:Is it me, or are PMs who become mid Parliament the worst for their parties?
Theresa May - Nuff said
Gordon Brown - Again nuff said
Joihn Major - Ultimately saw the Tories reduced to a rump in 1997
Jim Callaghan - Should have held an election in the Autumn of 1978 when Labour were ahead in the polls, missed the boat, and helped usher in 18 years of Tory rule
Lord Home - Hospital pass
You'd probably have to say SuperMac was the lost mid term PM not to seriously screw up.
But yes I'm being harsh on Major.
The EU wasn't the issue as much of an issue then (I know Thatcher was toppled over it, but in reality it was to do with the poll tax)
Could anyone have managed something like 1992 (perhaps not quite so many votes as Major mustered) and also successfully prevented the 92-97 implosion? Perhaps left the party more battle-ready even if they lost 97?0 -
She didn't lose, even though she lost her majority she still leads the largest partySouthamObserver said:
Totally agree. She deserved to lose and deserves no pity.Casino_Royale said:
Pathetic.SouthamObserver said:
Too right I want to celebrate. It's an absolutely fantastic outcome; all the better for being totally unexpected. She wanted to crush the saboteurs:Casino_Royale said:
That's a very unfair, and slightly nasty, post.SouthamObserver said:
She chose to frame the election in the way that she did. She colluded with the right wing press to make it a patriots v saboteurs contest. She decided to paint the Europeans as the enemy and to accuse them of interfering in the electoral process. She chose to walk hand in hand with Trump. I can't feel sorry for her given that she essentially labelled people like me traitors. I don't think I have ever been happier at an election result. This beats 1997 by a distance. At least John Major was a decent man.Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I'm feeling sorry for Theresa May now.
This is probably a fatal sentiment for her. But I genuinely think her motives were good and she meant well.
She is a lifelong loyal Tory, loves her party, and she will be devastated at what has happened to it.
I don't think she's even begun to label people who disagree with her as traitors, most of her parliamentary support and cabinet came from Remain. And her decency is absolutely beyond question.
Go away and have a lie down.
I think the last four days have gone to your head, you're not sure what to make of it, and despite the fact you failed to cast a ballot for anyone you want to celebrate regardless.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/8544492808657674250 -
Why is it ?Casino_Royale said:
Pathetic.SouthamObserver said:
Too right I want to celebrate. It's an absolutely fantastic outcome; all the better for being totally unexpected. She wanted to crush the saboteurs:Casino_Royale said:
That's a very unfair, and slightly nasty, post.SouthamObserver said:
She chose to frame the election in the way that she did. She colluded with the right wing press to make it a patriots v saboteurs contest. She decided to paint the Europeans as the enemy and to accuse them of interfering in the electoral process. She chose to walk hand in hand with Trump. I can't feel sorry for her given that she essentially labelled people like me traitors. I don't think I have ever been happier at an election result. This beats 1997 by a distance. At least John Major was a decent man.Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I'm feeling sorry for Theresa May now.
This is probably a fatal sentiment for her. But I genuinely think her motives were good and she meant well.
She is a lifelong loyal Tory, loves her party, and she will be devastated at what has happened to it.
I don't think she's even begun to label people who disagree with her as traitors, most of her parliamentary support and cabinet came from Remain. And her decency is absolutely beyond question.
Go away and have a lie down.
I think the last four days have gone to your head, you're not sure what to make of it, and despite the fact you failed to cast a ballot for anyone you want to celebrate regardless.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/8544492808657674250 -
c) The October 2017 General ElectionJonathan said:2018 A-Level Politics Question
Which is the biggest fuck up?
a) The 2016 EU Referendum
b) The 2017 General Election
Discuss.0 -
But the referendum led to the vacancy, that led to May, that led to the election, that led to the fuck up.midwinter said:
The election. Leave would have got 60 percent without Cameron.Jonathan said:2018 A-Level Politics Question
Which is the biggest fuck up?
a) The 2016 EU Referendum
b) The 2017 General Election
Discuss.
Arguably, the 2017 general election is just an aftershock.0 -
Nope without him Kinnock may well have won in 1992Jonathan said:
Nope. They and we would have been better off without him, except perhaps the national lottery. But that is it.HYUFD said:
It kept Kinnock out and forced Labour to become New Labour under Blair, the Tories and the country owe Major a lotJonathan said:
Fat lot of good that did him.The_Apocalypse said:Unlike Gordon Brown, Jim Callaghan, and Theresa May John Major won a GE.
0 -
Understandably, not many people have noticed that Beppe Grillo's lot did very badly in the Italian mayoral elections yesterday. No candidates through to the second round in any of the big cities. The populist tide continues to ebb in Europe.0
-
I have absolutely no knowledge of the actual injunctions - I just know that there have been 6 injunctions issued (1 recently) due to questions asked in the NI assembly.AlastairMeeks said:
The first rule of super injunction club...Alistair said:
Ooooh, which if the 6 super injunctions could this be about?Theuniondivvie said:That thing when you lift a rock not knowing what's going to pop out.
https://twitter.com/RupertMyers/status/8738461431590830080 -
Cos on present form they f*ck that up too.Casino_Royale said:
Why stop there? Why not abolish the Conservative Party and give up contesting elections for good?SouthamObserver said:Although we know the good of the country is not a Tory priority, if she were ever to think about trying to govern in the national interest Mrs May might:
1. Keep as far away as possible from the swivel-eyed Tory right.
2. Stop pandering to the right wing press.
3. Apologise for her citizens of nowhere and saboteur sabre rattling.
4. Start talking about Europe as our friend, not our enemy.
5. Run a mile from Donald Trump.0 -
Better New Labour than Kinnock Labour and heaven help us Corbyn LabourRichard_Tyndall said:
I am not sure we should be thanking Major if he was responsible for New Labour.HYUFD said:
It kept Kinnock out and forced Labour to become New Labour under Blair, the Tories and the country owe Major a lotJonathan said:
Fat lot of good that did him.The_Apocalypse said:Unlike Gordon Brown, Jim Callaghan, and Theresa May John Major won a GE.
0 -
The relative strength and stability of Italian politics is a sore point for some.SouthamObserver said:Understandably, not many people have noticed that Beppe Grillo's lot did very badly in the Italian mayoral elections yesterday. No candidates through to the second round in any of the big cities. The populist tide continues to ebb in Europe.
0 -
Way more important tweet about the YouGov model from higher up the chain
https://twitter.com/benlauderdale/status/8741757336015790090 -
There is also the assumption that either are bad. From the very narrow perspective of the person who called them then yes they are bad. For the country as a whole the jury is out in both cases. I am sure there are plenty on the left who would look at the GE as a fantastic event and certainly wouldn't consider it a fuck up. Obviously Leavers feel the same about the Referendum.AlastairMeeks said:
You seem to assume that's necessarily a concluded series.Jonathan said:2018 A-Level Politics Question
Which is the biggest fuck up?
a) The 2016 EU Referendum
b) The 2017 General Election
Discuss.
The only people who would regard both as a fuck up are Remainer Tories who are probably few in number these days.0 -
@kinabalu welcome to PB!
0 -
The omnishambles budget led to the surge in UKIP support in 2013, which led to the Tory referendum promise in 2015.Jonathan said:
But the referendum led to the vacancy, that led to May, that led to the election, that led to the fuck up.midwinter said:
The election. Leave would have got 60 percent without Cameron.Jonathan said:2018 A-Level Politics Question
Which is the biggest fuck up?
a) The 2016 EU Referendum
b) The 2017 General Election
Discuss.
Arguably, the 2017 general election is just an aftershock.
So it was all due to Cornish pasties
0 -
Because she was the one playing games?Yorkcity said:
Why is it ?Casino_Royale said:
Pathetic.SouthamObserver said:
Too right I want to celebrate. It's an absolutely fantastic outcome; all the better for being totally unexpected. She wanted to crush the saboteurs:Casino_Royale said:
That's a very unfair, and slightly nasty, post.SouthamObserver said:
She chose to frame the election in the way that she did. She colluded with the right wing press to make it a patriots v saboteurs contest. She decided to paint the Europeans as the enemy and to accuse them of interfering in the electoral process. She chose to walk hand in hand with Trump. I can't feel sorry for her given that she essentially labelled people like me traitors. I don't think I have ever been happier at an election result. This beats 1997 by a distance. At least John Major was a decent man.Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I'm feeling sorry for Theresa May now.
This is probably a fatal sentiment for her. But I genuinely think her motives were good and she meant well.
She is a lifelong loyal Tory, loves her party, and she will be devastated at what has happened to it.
I don't think she's even begun to label people who disagree with her as traitors, most of her parliamentary support and cabinet came from Remain. And her decency is absolutely beyond question.
Go away and have a lie down.
I think the last four days have gone to your head, you're not sure what to make of it, and despite the fact you failed to cast a ballot for anyone you want to celebrate regardless.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/8544492808657674250 -
The GE 2017 hard to think of a bigger f up in history of a sitting PM with a majority calling a snap. Election and returning with a minority hung parliament.Has it ever happened before ?Jonathan said:2018 A-Level Politics Question
Which is the biggest fuck up?
a) The 2016 EU Referendum
b) The 2017 General Election
Discuss.0 -
Corbyn did abysmally in the May locals but almost won the general election in June, in any case not all regions were up in Italy and the coalition system used hit 5*. Plus national polls still have 5* in the lead in at least half and Berlusconi and the Northern League will deal with them ahead of RenziSouthamObserver said:Understandably, not many people have noticed that Beppe Grillo's lot did very badly in the Italian mayoral elections yesterday. No candidates through to the second round in any of the big cities. The populist tide continues to ebb in Europe.
0 -
Casino's a good bloke, but he is understandably feeling a bit raw right now. I am rubbing it in and I should not be, so it's my fault. But I have always thought May to be utterly useless and I am just so relieved she did not get her majority. It would have been truly calamitous. At least now we have a chance of avoiding the worst of all possible Brexits - one dictated by the Daily Mail and Sun.Yorkcity said:
Why is it ?Casino_Royale said:
Pathetic.SouthamObserver said:
Too right I want to celebrate. It's an absolutely fantastic outcome; all the better for being totally unexpected. She wanted to crush the saboteurs:Casino_Royale said:
That's a very unfair, and slightly nasty, post.SouthamObserver said:
She chose to frame the election in the way that she did. She colluded with the right wing press to make it a patriots v saboteurs contest. She decided to paint the Europeans as the enemy and to accuse them of interfering in the electoral process. She chose to walk hand in hand with Trump. I can't feel sorry for her given that she essentially labelled people like me traitors. I don't think I have ever been happier at an election result. This beats 1997 by a distance. At least John Major was a decent man.Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I'm feeling sorry for Theresa May now.
This is probably a fatal sentiment for her. But I genuinely think her motives were good and she meant well.
She is a lifelong loyal Tory, loves her party, and she will be devastated at what has happened to it.
I don't think she's even begun to label people who disagree with her as traitors, most of her parliamentary support and cabinet came from Remain. And her decency is absolutely beyond question.
Go away and have a lie down.
I think the last four days have gone to your head, you're not sure what to make of it, and despite the fact you failed to cast a ballot for anyone you want to celebrate regardless.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/854449280865767425
0 -
Heath in 1974?Yorkcity said:
The GE 2017 hard to think of a bigger f up in history of a sitting PM with a majority calling a snap. Election and returning with a minority hung parliament.Has it ever happened before ?Jonathan said:2018 A-Level Politics Question
Which is the biggest fuck up?
a) The 2016 EU Referendum
b) The 2017 General Election
Discuss.0 -
This is a question I've been asking for the last couple of threads. Wanted to know if there'd been widescale late defections in these age bands, or just that the Tory-leaners decided not to turn-out and Labour-leaners did. Brilliant, thanks.Alistair said:Way more important tweet about the YouGov model from higher up the chain
https://twitter.com/benlauderdale/status/8741757336015790090 -
Not at all, given that at this point the long-term result of this sequence is more likely to be the final defeat of the 'bastards' and the emergence of a new consensus that the EU is indispensable, than that the mirage of Brexit will materialise.Richard_Tyndall said:The only people who would regard both as a fuck up are Remainer Tories who are probably few in number these days.
0 -
This election has brought out the worst side of people like SouthamO, posters I otherwise greatly respect.Yorkcity said:
Why is it ?Casino_Royale said:
Pathetic.SouthamObserver said:
Too right I want to celebrate. It's an absolutely fantastic outcome; all the better for being totally unexpected. She wanted to crush the saboteurs:Casino_Royale said:
That's a very unfair, and slightly nasty, post.SouthamObserver said:
She chose to frame the election in the way that she did. She colluded with the right wing press to make it a patriots v saboteurs contest. She decided to paint the Europeans as the enemy and to accuse them of interfering in the electoral process. She chose to walk hand in hand with Trump. I can't feel sorry for her given that she essentially labelled people like me traitors. I don't think I have ever been happier at an election result. This beats 1997 by a distance. At least John Major was a decent man.Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I'm feeling sorry for Theresa May now.
This is probably a fatal sentiment for her. But I genuinely think her motives were good and she meant well.
She is a lifelong loyal Tory, loves her party, and she will be devastated at what has happened to it.
I don't think she's even begun to label people who disagree with her as traitors, most of her parliamentary support and cabinet came from Remain. And her decency is absolutely beyond question.
Go away and have a lie down.
I think the last four days have gone to your head, you're not sure what to make of it, and despite the fact you failed to cast a ballot for anyone you want to celebrate regardless.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/854449280865767425
All their (principled) reservations about Corbyn have been junked overnight, just because he socked one to the Tories. And Southam didn't even have the courage to cast a vote for him.
Now, he's coming out with all sorts of reasons to justify being personally nasty.
I think his reasons for doing so are pathetic.0 -
I went with boxer winning on points but suffering a brain haemorrage in the process.Bobajob_PB said:
No-one won it. It was like a draw in a Test Match, where one side had a big run advantage. May didn't take 20 wickets, ergo she drew. Labour saved the Test in adverse circumstances, against all odds.TheScreamingEagles said:
Theresa May won the 2017 general election, she just didn't win a majority.The_Apocalypse said:Unlike Gordon Brown, Jim Callaghan, and Theresa May John Major won a GE.
Don't go all Corbynista on us and say Corbyn/Labour won the 2017 general election.0 -
Good point on that thread on the patronising attitude Tories have to younger voters. We saw this during the voter registration drive when several people said that students wouldn't be able to vote because they would be living at home, implying they were too stupid to consider the possibility of being somewhere other than Uni in 3 weeks' time.MyBurningEars said:
This is a question I've been asking for the last couple of threads. Wanted to know if there'd been widescale late defections in these age bands, or just that the Tory-leaners decided not to turn-out and Labour-leaners did. Brilliant, thanks.Alistair said:Way more important tweet about the YouGov model from higher up the chain
https://twitter.com/benlauderdale/status/874175733601579009
0 -
Getting Kwarteng into a senior Ministerial role in short order would help enormously.isam said:
I agree, I like him.MaxPB said:Just watched a video of Kwarteng giving an interview in C4, he's just so smooth and confident. It's the complete opposite of Theresa. No nervousness, he's clearly been well briefed and he is flexible enough to answer the questions being asked. He also says that we'd only leave the single market to stop free movement and he gets the point across that Labour have the same view, one of the only politicians on our side to make that point.
He deserves a shot at the top job, we need to have a full leadership election and I hope he gets serious backing for it from some of the old guard who's time has clearly passed.
And Johnny Mercer and Rory Stewart. Penny Mordant needs a leg up too. We need to get to know these new Scottish Tories. And Kevin Foster needs to be told to take all Tory MPs and candidates on a crash-course on how to win over your constituents.
And get Gove to say that under no circumstances will the Govt. EVER give time for a Bill on fox-hunting. And if there is a Private Members Bill introduced, then any member of the Cabinet who wants to vote in favour can hand in their resignation.
Shit like that. They have got time to fix things. They need to use it WISELY.0 -
Boomerang soundbites !
https://twitter.com/STVNews/status/8742608716100648960 -
Your bet with SeanT is beginning to look astute. There is a long road to kick the can along.williamglenn said:
Not at all, given that at this point the long-term result of this sequence is more likely to be the final defeat of the 'bastards' and the emergence of a new consensus that the EU is indispensable, than that the mirage of Brexit will materialise.Richard_Tyndall said:The only people who would regard both as a fuck up are Remainer Tories who are probably few in number these days.
0 -
Jonathan said:
2018 A-Level Politics Question
Which is the biggest fuck up?
a) The 2016 EU Referendum
b) The 2017 General Election
Discuss.
c) The election at which Jeremy Corbyn becomes Prime Minister.
The voters still have time to be visited by the Ghost of Elections Future....0 -
She lost by the terms of the contest that she set when she announced the election. She said that a small majority was not enough for her to deliver Brexit. She said Parliament was too divided. She asked the country for a stronger mandate.HYUFD said:She didn't lose, even though she lost her majority she still leads the largest party
The country told her to do one.0 -
Keep dreaming William.williamglenn said:
Not at all, given that at this point the long-term result of this sequence is more likely to be the final defeat of the 'bastards' and the emergence of a new consensus that the EU is indispensable, than that the mirage of Brexit will materialise.Richard_Tyndall said:The only people who would regard both as a fuck up are Remainer Tories who are probably few in number these days.
0 -
I've no idea how anyone could possibly come up with that conclusion. The chaotic result has dramatically increased the risk of the worst of all possible Brexits. Our EU friends don't now even know whether the UK government is in a position to make any deal stick.SouthamObserver said:At least now we have a chance of avoiding the worst of all possible Brexits - one dictated by the Daily Mail and Sun.
My previous estimate was something like a 20% risk of a chaotic exit leading to substantial economic disruption. I'd say it's now 50%.0 -
And the ivory ban, I hear that came up a lot, coupled with fox hunting it made the Tories look like the nasty party.MarqueeMark said:
Getting Kwarteng into a senior Ministerial role in short order would help enormously.isam said:
I agree, I like him.MaxPB said:Just watched a video of Kwarteng giving an interview in C4, he's just so smooth and confident. It's the complete opposite of Theresa. No nervousness, he's clearly been well briefed and he is flexible enough to answer the questions being asked. He also says that we'd only leave the single market to stop free movement and he gets the point across that Labour have the same view, one of the only politicians on our side to make that point.
He deserves a shot at the top job, we need to have a full leadership election and I hope he gets serious backing for it from some of the old guard who's time has clearly passed.
And Johnny Mercer and Rory Stewart. Penny Mordant needs a leg up too. We need to get to know these new Scottish Tories. And Kevin Foster needs to be told to take all Tory MPs and candidates on a crash-course on how to win over your constituents.
And get Gove to say that under no circumstances will the Govt. EVER give time for a Bill on fox-hunting. And if there is a Private Members Bill introduced, then any member of the Cabinet who wants to vote in favour can hand in their resignation.
Shit like that. They have got time to fix things. They need to use it WISELY.0 -
Thanks for the reply.Casino_Royale said:
This election has brought out the worst side of people like SouthamO, posters I otherwise greatly respect.Yorkcity said:
Why is it ?Casino_Royale said:
Pathetic.SouthamObserver said:
Too right I want to celebrate. It's an absolutely fantastic outcome; all the better for being totally unexpected. She wanted to crush the saboteurs:Casino_Royale said:
That's a very unfair, and slightly nasty, post.SouthamObserver said:
She chose to frame the election in the way that she did. She colluded with the right wing press to make it a patriots v saboteurs contest. She decided to paint the Europeans as the enemy and to accuse them of interfering in the electoral process. She chose to walk hand in hand with Trump. I can't feel sorry for her given that she essentially labelled people like me traitors. I don't think I have ever been happier at an election result. This beats 1997 by a distance. At least John Major was a decent man.Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I'm feeling sorry for Theresa May now.
This is probably a fatal sentiment for her. But I genuinely think her motives were good and she meant well.
She is a lifelong loyal Tory, loves her party, and she will be devastated at what has happened to it.
I don't think she's even begun to label people who disagree with her as traitors, most of her parliamentary support and cabinet came from Remain. And her decency is absolutely beyond question.
Go away and have a lie down.
I think the last four days have gone to your head, you're not sure what to make of it, and despite the fact you failed to cast a ballot for anyone you want to celebrate regardless.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/854449280865767425
All their (principled) reservations about Corbyn have been junked overnight, just because he socked one to the Tories. And Southam didn't even have the courage to cast a vote for him.
Now, he's coming out with all sorts of reasons to justify being personally nasty.
I think his reasons for doing so are pathetic.0 -
I have not junked any of my reservations about Corbyn, although I have totally accepted that I was wrong about how voters would react to him and the policies he put forward. I am celebrating the fact that an awful government did not get the mandate it sought to inflict a dreadful Brexit on the British people and the country's economy - especially since the campaign it fought was so utterly negative and insulting to so many. I am sorry you don't like that, but what can we do?Casino_Royale said:
This election has brought out the worst side of people like SouthamO, posters I otherwise greatly respect.Yorkcity said:
Why is it ?Casino_Royale said:
Pathetic.SouthamObserver said:
Too right I want to celebrate. It's an absolutely fantastic outcome; all the better for being totally unexpected. She wanted to crush the saboteurs:Casino_Royale said:
That's a very unfair, and slightly nasty, post.SouthamObserver said:
She chose to frame the election in the way that she did. She colluded with the right wing press to make it a patriots v saboteurs contest. She decided to paint the Europeans as the enemy and to accuse them of interfering in the electoral process. She chose to walk hand in hand with Trump. I can't feel sorry for her given that she essentially labelled people like me traitors. I don't think I have ever been happier at an election result. This beats 1997 by a distance. At least John Major was a decent man.Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I'm feeling sorry for Theresa May now.
This is probably a fatal sentiment for her. But I genuinely think her motives were good and she meant well.
She is a lifelong loyal Tory, loves her party, and she will be devastated at what has happened to it.
I don't think she's even begun to label people who disagree with her as traitors, most of her parliamentary support and cabinet came from Remain. And her decency is absolutely beyond question.
Go away and have a lie down.
I think the last four days have gone to your head, you're not sure what to make of it, and despite the fact you failed to cast a ballot for anyone you want to celebrate regardless.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/854449280865767425
All their (principled) reservations about Corbyn have been junked overnight, just because he socked one to the Tories. And Southam didn't even have the courage to cast a vote for him.
Now, he's coming out with all sorts of reasons to justify being personally nasty.
I think his reasons for doing so are pathetic.
0 -
Casino_Royale said:
I'm trying to work out what Ruth Davidson as PM would be like.
I'm thinking a Unionist Cleggite who is fairly hawkish on defence.
Portillo then....0 -
Yes, the Daily Mail did Theresa no favours in the end. Dacre made her look unhinged and vengeful. If Theresa had struck a more conciliatory tone ('A Brexit we can all be comfortable with') then people would have been more forgiving of her later blunders and just blamed Nick Timothy. As it turned out, the Dementia Tax etc. just seemed to confirm a pattern of vindictive behaviour and a cruel streak.SouthamObserver said:
Too right I want to celebrate. It's an absolutely fantastic outcome; all the better for being totally unexpected. She wanted to crush the saboteurs:Casino_Royale said:
That's a very unfair, and slightly nasty, post.SouthamObserver said:
She chose to frame the election in the way that she did. She colluded with the right wing press to make it a patriots v saboteurs contest. She decided to paint the Europeans as the enemy and to accuse them of interfering in the electoral process. She chose to walk hand in hand with Trump. I can't feel sorry for her given that she essentially labelled people like me traitors. I don't think I have ever been happier at an election result. This beats 1997 by a distance. At least John Major was a decent man.Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I'm feeling sorry for Theresa May now.
This is probably a fatal sentiment for her. But I genuinely think her motives were good and she meant well.
She is a lifelong loyal Tory, loves her party, and she will be devastated at what has happened to it.
I don't think she's even begun to label people who disagree with her as traitors, most of her parliamentary support and cabinet came from Remain. And her decency is absolutely beyond question.
Go away and have a lie down.
I think the last four days have gone to your head, you're not sure what to make of it, and despite the fact you failed to cast a ballot for anyone you want to celebrate regardless.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/8544492808657674250 -
I'm a Remainer and I couldn't really criticize Cameron (and still can't) for having the referendum, I think it would have happened eventually with the party being so split and the rise of UKIP:
Perhaps some of the negotiations I could criticize him for, but a lot of blame has to go to EU leaders as well being so inflexible and not willing to budge. They are now going to lose a major economy from their bloc because of their stubbornness.
In terms of the biggest fuck up I guess both are so linked and the after effects of the referendum both for remainers and leavers is still being felt. But I would go with the GE and allowing Corbyn's brand of Labour to thrive, that's the huge failure by the Conservative Party and largely their own making.0 -
Yep - she did not have to play to and along with the viciousness of the Mail and the Sun, or accuse the Europeans of seeking to sabotage the election; those were choices she made.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes, the Daily Mail did Theresa no favours in the end. Dacre made her look unhinged and vengeful. If Theresa had struck a more conciliatory tone ('A Brexit we can all be comfortable with') then people would have been more forgiving of her later blunders and just blamed Nick Timothy. As it turned out, the Dementia Tax etc. just seemed to confirm a pattern of vindictive behaviour and a cruel streak.SouthamObserver said:
Too right I want to celebrate. It's an absolutely fantastic outcome; all the better for being totally unexpected. She wanted to crush the saboteurs:Casino_Royale said:
That's a very unfair, and slightly nasty, post.SouthamObserver said:
She chose to frame the election in the way that she did. She colluded with the right wing press to make it a patriots v saboteurs contest. She decided to paint the Europeans as the enemy and to accuse them of interfering in the electoral process. She chose to walk hand in hand with Trump. I can't feel sorry for her given that she essentially labelled people like me traitors. I don't think I have ever been happier at an election result. This beats 1997 by a distance. At least John Major was a decent man.Casino_Royale said:To be honest, I'm feeling sorry for Theresa May now.
This is probably a fatal sentiment for her. But I genuinely think her motives were good and she meant well.
She is a lifelong loyal Tory, loves her party, and she will be devastated at what has happened to it.
I don't think she's even begun to label people who disagree with her as traitors, most of her parliamentary support and cabinet came from Remain. And her decency is absolutely beyond question.
Go away and have a lie down.
I think the last four days have gone to your head, you're not sure what to make of it, and despite the fact you failed to cast a ballot for anyone you want to celebrate regardless.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/854449280865767425
0 -
PerfectMarqueeMark said:Casino_Royale said:I'm trying to work out what Ruth Davidson as PM would be like.
I'm thinking a Unionist Cleggite who is fairly hawkish on defence.
Portillo then....0 -
This is increasingly perverse. A minority government has the right to be tested in parliament. Never mind testing May's authority in a Queens Speech we won't even get that. You cannot delay the opening of parliament because you haven't yet cobbled together a deal. You can either get a QS through and form the government or you cant.
May needs to be told tonight that she either put up or shut up - lead the government or don't, but stop trying to hide. It's a national embarrassment and the perversion is that her colleagues are all standing with her as she abjectly humiliates herself and her party.0 -
Portillo is against Trident.MarqueeMark said:Casino_Royale said:I'm trying to work out what Ruth Davidson as PM would be like.
I'm thinking a Unionist Cleggite who is fairly hawkish on defence.
Portillo then....0 -
True I guess he only had a year to run anyways as he was elected in 70.Bobajob_PB said:
Heath in 1974?Yorkcity said:
The GE 2017 hard to think of a bigger f up in history of a sitting PM with a majority calling a snap. Election and returning with a minority hung parliament.Has it ever happened before ?Jonathan said:2018 A-Level Politics Question
Which is the biggest fuck up?
a) The 2016 EU Referendum
b) The 2017 General Election
Discuss.0 -
anyone seen malcg ?
Asking for a friend with a bet to collect on.0 -
Good afternoon, my fellow Myrmidons.
F1: my post-race ramble about a fascinating Canadian race is up here:
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/canada-post-race-analysis-2017.html0 -
And so it begins https://twitter.com/jameswharton/status/8742481057635164190
-
In a nutshell, that is the whole Tory strategy, isn`t it? Small wonder everybody hates them.SirBenjamin said:
The very first thing May *should* have done on Friday was to put an offer on the table to Farron.TheScreamingEagles said:Are we missing the most obvious deal.
Con and the Lib Dems - Supply and confidence in exchange for a third referendum/referendum on the Brexit deal
He'd have refused it, of course, but then Con-DUP would've been seen, at least by some, as a last resort that Farron forced the country into by not cooperating in the interest of the greater good.
May consistently misses these opportunities to make others look bad or take some of the rap.0 -
Individual elections are a free market which political obsessives want to be structured so they can make sense of them.OblitusSumMe said:
She lost by the terms of the contest that she set when she announced the election. She said that a small majority was not enough for her to deliver Brexit. She said Parliament was too divided. She asked the country for a stronger mandate.HYUFD said:She didn't lose, even though she lost her majority she still leads the largest party
The country told her to do one.
What can be deciphered from the last 7 years is that the public want the Tories to have the balance of power either with a small majority or the largest party in a coalition, and they want us to leave the EU in a consensual not dogmatic manner.0 -
Attention seeking snowflake.Chris_A said:And so it begins https://twitter.com/jameswharton/status/874248105763516419
0 -
Doesn't he want to abolish Trident?MarqueeMark said:Casino_Royale said:I'm trying to work out what Ruth Davidson as PM would be like.
I'm thinking a Unionist Cleggite who is fairly hawkish on defence.
Portillo then....
Though he read history at Cambridge, which tells you everything about his awesomeness.
I have to admit, Portillo looks more like a 44 year old than a 64 year old.0 -
He has a very arresting pinned tweet.Chris_A said:And so it begins https://twitter.com/jameswharton/status/874248105763516419
0 -
Fair enough - May and the Tories have unleashed an absolute shit-storm on us, I agree. I'll rephrase: it's great to see the visciousness of the Mail and the Sun prove to be so utterly ineffectual.Richard_Nabavi said:
I've no idea how anyone could possibly come up with that conclusion. The chaotic result has dramatically increased the risk of the worst of all possible Brexits. Our EU friends don't now even know whether the UK government is in a position to make any deal stick.SouthamObserver said:At least now we have a chance of avoiding the worst of all possible Brexits - one dictated by the Daily Mail and Sun.
My previous estimate was something like a 20% risk of a chaotic exit leading to substantial economic disruption. I'd say it's now 50%.
0 -
What worried me Richard at the time is it was journalists calling it that first as I recall - someone at the Spectator claimed it was them but Rachel Sylvester was pushing the name from the very day it was announced and was writing about it from the first news conference onwards in those terms - some journalists went to war on it immediately.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's because the policy was so abysmally presented that the opposition parties got their 'Dementia Tax' label attached to it before the Conservatives had even begun to explain what it was about.midwinter said:Trouble was Richard it wasn't just the well off being whacked. Look at the results in places on the south coast with relatively high house prices and an elderly population. I wouldn't describe Worthing East as overly affluent but astonishingly May has turned it into a semi marginal.
0 -
I think in fairness all sorts of people were caught out by the dynamics of this election not least the MSM whose weakness in 2017 has been truly exposed. Certainly I never expected Canterbury to fall and pooh-pooed the idea on here rather than take the juicy long odds available on a Lab victory. The far Left now boosted by social media have always been able to organise not least by securing 8000 late voter registrations in that constituency largely among the student populationnot_on_fire said:
Good point on that thread on the patronising attitude Tories have to younger voters. We saw this during the voter registration drive when several people said that students wouldn't be able to vote because they would be living at home, implying they were too stupid to consider the possibility of being somewhere other than Uni in 3 weeks' time.MyBurningEars said:
This is a question I've been asking for the last couple of threads. Wanted to know if there'd been widescale late defections in these age bands, or just that the Tory-leaners decided not to turn-out and Labour-leaners did. Brilliant, thanks.Alistair said:Way more important tweet about the YouGov model from higher up the chain
https://twitter.com/benlauderdale/status/8741757336015790090 -
GE 2017 by PR.Labour and satellites 340,Tory and satellites 294.A fantastic victory for Jeremy Corbyn and more evidence he has the democratic validity by way of mandate to be given the chance to put the Labour manifesto before parliament.LD and Tory remainers would prefer Mr Corbyn to Mrs May.
https://www.indy100.com/article/uk-election-map-proportional-representation-system-2017-conservative-labour-77849560
