I notice the labour spinners on here have been attacking tory government over police numbers in response to terrorist attack.
Let's just remember for a second. What did jez do when asked if he would support an ISIS fund raiser release from prison for Christmas, go absolutely no bloody way. Of course not, he supported them. FFS...Robbing old ladies to fund ISIS and jezza goes into bat for them.
Then Of course we have mcIRA who supported getting rid of the spooks. 10k more plods in panda cars but no F##king intelligence agencies, that will do the trick.
These people disgust me.
So you seriously use "labour spinners" in the same post as "mcIRA" I think you should save the disgust for yourself.
Not at my main computer but Struggling to work out how those final numbers co e out given that they have SCon retention well down on other surveys, far fewer LD to SCon switchers and a surge in SNP certainty to vote as far as I remember.
Survation are the same people who brought us Con 40:Lab 39 last night. For whatever reason, they have clearly developed a more strongly pro-Labour and anti-Conservative stance than any of the other pollsters.
They're going to look visionary if they're right. But they're going to look very silly indeed if, as I suspect, this is a load of rubbish.
At least there's a refreshing lack of herding this time around, and with only four days left for the polls to move oh-so-conveniently into lockstep, it doesn't look as though they will now.
* Put the army on to the streets Give them a role protecting all crowded places such as shopping centres, sporting events, and concerts. Ensure that all security staff have regular contact with the military. Increase defence education. Today it is bombs at concerts and marauders with vehicles; tomorrow it may be men with AK-47s at schools or hospitals, as in the Caucasus. Make readiness and defence more than words: mobilise the population.
The army is cut to absolute bare bones, heading for 70k men, already badly overreached
I notice the labour spinners on here have been attacking tory government over police numbers in response to terrorist attack.
Let's just remember for a second. What did jez do when asked if he would support an ISIS fund raiser release from prison for Christmas, go absolutely no bloody way. Of course not, he supported them. FFS...Robbing old ladies to fund ISIS and jezza goes into bat for them.
Then Of course we have mcIRA who supported getting rid of the spooks. 10k more plods in panda cars but no F##king intelligence agencies, that will do the trick.
These people disgust me.
So you seriously use "labour spinners" in the same post as "mcIRA" I think you should save the disgust for yourself.
A man who supported the IRA...Just do one. These people are filth. Come back Ed you were a bit of a plonker but at heart a decent person.
Well said @TSE. Take the morning off the campaign as a mark of respect then get back to it. Don't postpone or cancel any events, whether they be concerts, sporting events or elections.
Keep calm and carry on, or we let the bastards win.
Especially continue with events that have pathetic security. That'll show 'em, eh?
Scottish Survation tactical voting question sees over 50% of 2015 con,LD,lab voters willing to tactical vote.
I'm actually not a huge fan of tactical voting, but people are allowed to vote for whatever reason they like, and I've decided to be a massive hypocrite and hope for as much of it as possible in Scotland. (And ld target seats - I'm not a full blooded pb Tory until Thursday after all )
Find a role for Jeremy Corbyn and Tim Farron in the government and make it clear that they and Theresa May will continue to cooperate in the government after the election, whatever the result of it is.
* Put the army on to the streets Give them a role protecting all crowded places such as shopping centres, sporting events, and concerts. Ensure that all security staff have regular contact with the military. Increase defence education. Today it is bombs at concerts and marauders with vehicles; tomorrow it may be men with AK-47s at schools or hospitals, as in the Caucasus. Make readiness and defence more than words: mobilise the population.
The army is cut to absolute bare bones, heading for 70k men, already badly overreached
There is no army to put on the streets.
It was announced post-Manchester and amounted to about 750 squaddies, mostly in London and the big cities.
Scottish Survation tactical voting question sees over 50% of 2015 con,LD,lab voters willing to tactical vote.
I've been thinking about this. Would a Tory leaning unionist be prepared to vote Labour? I've had a few quid on Labour in East Renfrewshire and Paisley and Renfrewshire South. Both 14-1.
Find a role for Jeremy Corbyn and Tim Farron in the government and make it clear that they and Theresa May will continue to cooperate in the government after the election, whatever the result of it is.
Er.... you what mate?
Yes, bit odd that. Why no snp in that scenario?
Besides, isn't that why we have a privy council? So loto can be provided with high level info if needed.
Find a role for Jeremy Corbyn and Tim Farron in the government and make it clear that they and Theresa May will continue to cooperate in the government after the election, whatever the result of it is.
Not at my main computer but Struggling to work out how those final numbers co e out given that they have SCon retention well down on other surveys, far fewer LD to SCon switchers and a surge in SNP certainty to vote as far as I remember.
Survation are the same people who brought us Con 40:Lab 39 last night. For whatever reason, they have clearly developed a more strongly pro-Labour and anti-Conservative stance than any of the other pollsters.
They're going to look visionary if they're right. But they're going to look very silly indeed if, as I suspect, this is a load of rubbish.
At least there's a refreshing lack of herding this time around, and with only four days left for the polls to move oh-so-conveniently into lockstep, it doesn't look as though they will now.
Yeah we need to keep in mind that nearly all the Scottish/Welsh polls have come from pollsters on one side of the polling divide.
Not at my main computer but Struggling to work out how those final numbers co e out given that they have SCon retention well down on other surveys, far fewer LD to SCon switchers and a surge in SNP certainty to vote as far as I remember.
Sorry ! If I continue with the election. On the Scottish Survation with UNS:
SNP 46, CON 7, LAB 3, LD 3. Paisley and East Lothian very close for Labour. East Lothian and East Renfrewshire could be the seats of the night. 3-way fight.
* Put the army on to the streets Give them a role protecting all crowded places such as shopping centres, sporting events, and concerts. Ensure that all security staff have regular contact with the military. Increase defence education. Today it is bombs at concerts and marauders with vehicles; tomorrow it may be men with AK-47s at schools or hospitals, as in the Caucasus. Make readiness and defence more than words: mobilise the population.
The army is cut to absolute bare bones, heading for 70k men, already badly overreached
There is no army to put on the streets.
Your second sentence is an exaggeration. As for the first - yes indeed! Cut other commitments. There are still British forces in Afghanistan. They can defend Britain better if brought home.
Enormous resources are spent on NATO involvement too.
Yeah we need to keep in mind that nearly all the Scottish/Welsh polls have come from pollsters on one side of the polling divide.
Whilst true, I'm inclined to believe that their Scottish/Welsh polls in so far as I can believe that Labour is starting to eat into the SNP/Plaid vote. At least I hope that's what's happening.
Not at my main computer but Struggling to work out how those final numbers co e out given that they have SCon retention well down on other surveys, far fewer LD to SCon switchers and a surge in SNP certainty to vote as far as I remember.
Survation are the same people who brought us Con 40:Lab 39 last night. For whatever reason, they have clearly developed a more strongly pro-Labour and anti-Conservative stance than any of the other pollsters.
They're going to look visionary if they're right. But they're going to look very silly indeed if, as I suspect, this is a load of rubbish.
At least there's a refreshing lack of herding this time around, and with only four days left for the polls to move oh-so-conveniently into lockstep, it doesn't look as though they will now.
Yeah we need to keep in mind that nearly all the Scottish/Welsh polls have come from pollsters on one side of the polling divide.
Certainly true for Wales. AFAIK the only Wales-specific poll is the Welsh Political Barometer, which is run by YouGov.
Not at my main computer but Struggling to work out how those final numbers co e out given that they have SCon retention well down on other surveys, far fewer LD to SCon switchers and a surge in SNP certainty to vote as far as I remember.
Sorry ! If I continue with the election. On the Scottish Survation with UNS:
SNP 46, CON 7, LAB 3, LD 3. Paisley and East Lothian very close for Labour. East Lothian and East Renfrewshire could be the seats of the night. 3-way fight.
Works for me. To think there were thoughts slab might end up with 0!
* Put the army on to the streets Give them a role protecting all crowded places such as shopping centres, sporting events, and concerts. Ensure that all security staff have regular contact with the military. Increase defence education. Today it is bombs at concerts and marauders with vehicles; tomorrow it may be men with AK-47s at schools or hospitals, as in the Caucasus. Make readiness and defence more than words: mobilise the population.
* Prioritise To meet some of the resource requirements, reduce British military expenditure in other areas, such as the defence of other countries (e.g. Estonia), engagements in other countries (e.g. Afghanistan), and bases around the world (e.g. Diego Garcia). Leave NATO. Let Estonia defend itself. End the alliance with the US. Prioritise the defence of Britain.
* Hit the money behind Daesh Tell the Salafist dictatorships of Saudi and Qatar that all of their assets in Britain will be frozen within one week unless they change their orientation and cooperate with the British government and with the UNSC, the great powers, and the governments in the poor part of the Arab world, to wipe Daesh out. I cannot believe that no Daesh money men are known to British security. Arrest them. Britain tried applying Malaya to Northern Ireland, and they are to an extent trying to apply NI to Daesh, as everyone knows. It isn't working. If the money men have Saudi or Qatari diplomatic status, expel them from the country with one hour's notice and seize the motherfuckers' assets. Cease selling weapons to Saudi and Qatar with immediate effect. Require all foreign intelligence agencies active in Britain - such as agencies of the US, Israel, Saudi, Germany, etc. - to work under British oversight, and if they don't like it, shut them down. British national security should be under British control. Aim for a new and friendly relationship with all anti-Daesh states in the Arab and Muslim world and end support for Israel.
* Do NOT suspend the general election Find a role for Jeremy Corbyn and Tim Farron in the government and make it clear that they and Theresa May will continue to cooperate in the government after the election, whatever the result of it is. Do NOT make national security an issue that divides the main political parties. At the very least, let the main party leaders appear together, in the same room, rather than making uncoordinated "tweets". Raise the level of symbolic unity in order to assist with increasing cooperation in all parts of society against the terrorist threat: this is basic social psychology and is important.
1. we cant not enough resources after Tory cuts
2. We cant Trump wouldnt like it
3. We cant Tory donors wouldnt be able to maximise arms sales profit
4. She wont would make her look weaker and wobblier
* Put the army on to the streets Give them a role protecting all crowded places such as shopping centres, sporting events, and concerts. Ensure that all security staff have regular contact with the military. Increase defence education. Today it is bombs at concerts and marauders with vehicles; tomorrow it may be men with AK-47s at schools or hospitals, as in the Caucasus. Make readiness and defence more than words: mobilise the population.
The army is cut to absolute bare bones, heading for 70k men, already badly overreached
There is no army to put on the streets.
Your second sentence is an exaggeration. As for the first - yes indeed! Cut other commitments. There are still British forces in Afghanistan. They can defend Britain better if brought home. Enormous resources are spent on NATO involvement too.
Regarding Nato, Trident etc. we are still fighting the last war comparatively speaking in money terms.
Mrs wobbley better get that bloody podium out in downing Street and have a clear message of action. God forbid it is a terrorist sympathizer doing this next time.
It will be the usual waffle with no concrete changes.
She can't keep trotting out the same old platitudes every time ISIS does an away fixture in the UK. I think the voters have a right to expect something a bit more proactive than her usual soapy tit wank about security, vigilance, etc.
A key strategic goal of terrorism, aside from the obvious homocidal mania, is often to provoke a counter-productive reaction. We can't tell without knowing the details but the right response is probably more platitudes and soapy tit wank.
I notice the labour spinners on here have been attacking tory government over police numbers in response to terrorist attack.
Let's just remember for a second. What did jez do when asked if he would support an ISIS fund raiser release from prison for Christmas, go absolutely no bloody way. Of course not, he supported them. FFS...Robbing old ladies to fund ISIS and jezza goes into bat for them.
Then Of course we have mcIRA who supported getting rid of the spooks. 10k more plods in panda cars but no F##king intelligence agencies, that will do the trick.
These people disgust me.
It's not Labour spin to note that the Conservative government and Home Secretary May have cut 20,000 from police numbers and significantly denuded the armed forces. Opposition parties and some Tory MP's and PBers have been critical of this foolishness for years.
The Conservative government seems to have forgotten their first duty, which most certainly is not calling a totally unnecessary general election for purely party interest
LibDems have suspended national campaigning for today but are continuing with local campaigning (except in Bermondsey).
No, a lot of local campaigning is being suspended - I have three emails from different seats cancelling local activity. The national email says to be sensitive to the incident and it seems people are taking the hint.
Our first canvassing session starts at 11:00 this morning.
I notice the labour spinners on here have been attacking tory government over police numbers in response to terrorist attack.
Let's just remember for a second. What did jez do when asked if he would support an ISIS fund raiser release from prison for Christmas, go absolutely no bloody way. Of course not, he supported them. FFS...Robbing old ladies to fund ISIS and jezza goes into bat for them.
Then Of course we have mcIRA who supported getting rid of the spooks. 10k more plods in panda cars but no F##king intelligence agencies, that will do the trick.
These people disgust me.
Bless.
What disgusts me at a base level is British Citizens - our friends, family and neighbours - being treated with utter disdain by Tories. Human life has meaning and value, these are people. But its OK to have a veteran starve to death in his own home. To have terminal cancer patients live out their final days in hunger and stress having been found fit to work and all their welfare stopped. To take cars and wheelchairs and home help off the disabled then bleat about them not working when thanks to you they struggle to do the basics like wash and go to the loo. To have working people doing essential jobs work their arses off but thanks to low wages and impossible rents have to rely on foodbanks, which your MPs then slag off because they all are fat and smoke and have 58" TVs. To have someone very close to you try and commit suicide twice as they live in agony with a debilitating condition getting worse with a diagnosis it will continue to cripple them then kill them - but according to the government they are fit to work and "work-shy" (despite in her case two degrees and professional qualifications she would give an arm to be able to use again).
That is what disgusts me. Apologists like you for the worst kind of sociopathic I'm OK bollocks to you"Conservatism" that would have had even Mrs Thatcher recoiling from. So if you don't mind, I will take lectures on morality from the likes of you under advisement.
Scottish Survation tactical voting question sees over 50% of 2015 con,LD,lab voters willing to tactical vote.
I'm actually not a huge fan of tactical voting, but people are allowed to vote for whatever reason they like, and I've decided to be a massive hypocrite and hope for as much of it as possible in Scotland. (And ld target seats - I'm not a full blooded pb Tory until Thursday after all )
I don't see too many Labour voters voting Tory and vice versa. At the moment, Indy Ref2 is not the main issue however much Ruth tries to make it.
[DavidL said: In the short term yes. But she has been terrible these last 4 weeks. She has no natural ability for this at all. Doesn't make her a bad PM of course. I just can't see her doing this again.]
And to be fair, many years as an MP, 6 years as Home Secretary and 4 or 5 as PM will be more than enough public service to warrant the gratitude of the nation, especially as she stood up to deliver Brexit against the direst warnings from her colleagues during the referendum campaign as to what Brexit would mean for Britain.
The only storm cloud on the horizon will be if the Brexit negotiations are perceived to be going badly. At that point,, there might be murmurings that "she was poor in the election campaign...time to move on...fresh team to deal with Brussels..."
*All the above predicated of course on her winning a useable majority on Thursday.
They could have heard or seen that it was going to take place. You ask a question, you get a reply. The problem with panel polling is only the political nerds are involved.
Not at my main computer but Struggling to work out how those final numbers co e out given that they have SCon retention well down on other surveys, far fewer LD to SCon switchers and a surge in SNP certainty to vote as far as I remember.
Survation are the same people who brought us Con 40:Lab 39 last night. For whatever reason, they have clearly developed a more strongly pro-Labour and anti-Conservative stance than any of the other pollsters.
They're going to look visionary if they're right. But they're going to look very silly indeed if, as I suspect, this is a load of rubbish.
At least there's a refreshing lack of herding this time around, and with only four days left for the polls to move oh-so-conveniently into lockstep, it doesn't look as though they will now.
Yeah we need to keep in mind that nearly all the Scottish/Welsh polls have come from pollsters on one side of the polling divide.
Certainly true for Wales. AFAIK the only Wales-specific poll is the Welsh Political Barometer, which is run by YouGov.
Interesting to note that other pollsters have very different sub-sample splits, with he Cons doing very much better....
Not at my main computer but Struggling to work out how those final numbers co e out given that they have SCon retention well down on other surveys, far fewer LD to SCon switchers and a surge in SNP certainty to vote as far as I remember.
Survation are the same people who brought us Con 40:Lab 39 last night. For whatever reason, they have clearly developed a more strongly pro-Labour and anti-Conservative stance than any of the other pollsters.
They're going to look visionary if they're right. But they're going to look very silly indeed if, as I suspect, this is a load of rubbish.
At least there's a refreshing lack of herding this time around, and with only four days left for the polls to move oh-so-conveniently into lockstep, it doesn't look as though they will now.
I'm stumped, if I put the Survation switching matrix into my model the national Con figure matches the headline but I have Labour on 21% and SNP on 44% (Con seats would be DCT, BRS, WAK, D&G and Moray)
I'm going to have to debug my model and see if I've f'kd up anywhere.
I notice the labour spinners on here have been attacking tory government over police numbers in response to terrorist attack.
Let's just remember for a second. What did jez do when asked if he would support an ISIS fund raiser release from prison for Christmas, go absolutely no bloody way. Of course not, he supported them. FFS...Robbing old ladies to fund ISIS and jezza goes into bat for them.
Then Of course we have mcIRA who supported getting rid of the spooks. 10k more plods in panda cars but no F##king intelligence agencies, that will do the trick.
These people disgust me.
It's not Labour spin to note that the Conservative government and Home Secretary May have cut 20,000 from police numbers and significantly denuded the armed forces. Opposition parties and some Tory MP's and PBers have been critical of this foolishness for years.
The Conservative government seems to have forgotten their first duty, which most certainly is not calling a totally unnecessary general election for purely party interest
Lots of us have been very critical of May's border and police cuts and have been damning over Tory defence cuts. The issue is that I don't think Labour would have done anything differently and Jez would most definitely make everything worse.
I do hope that the government reverse all of the defence cuts and domestic security cuts over the next few years.
Not at my main computer but Struggling to work out how those final numbers co e out given that they have SCon retention well down on other surveys, far fewer LD to SCon switchers and a surge in SNP certainty to vote as far as I remember.
Sorry ! If I continue with the election. On the Scottish Survation with UNS:
SNP 46, CON 7, LAB 3, LD 3. Paisley and East Lothian very close for Labour. East Lothian and East Renfrewshire could be the seats of the night. 3-way fight.
Works for me. To think there were thoughts slab might end up with 0!
They still might, you pays your money & makes your choice.
They could have heard or seen that it was going to take place. You ask a question, you get a reply. The problem with panel polling is only the political nerds are involved.
Precisely @isam's point. It may well be that matters this time round
Well this country has now suspended campaigning twice.So the terrorism has effected the election whatever we say.
As far as I'm aware, it's only national campaigning which has been suspended. I've received no notification as an Association Chairman to pause local campaigning. The national decision, while regrettable in principle, is probably an inevitable consequence of the PM and other senior ministers having to attend COBRA and other ministerial duties due to the attack.
Yes. And it should be for today only, with May/Rudd rearranging their schedules, as necessary, to take the required meetings tomorrow and Tuesday.
The Tories are absolutely reliant on those final canvass returns, and Messina/Crosby's data crunching and direction.
I notice the labour spinners on here have been attacking tory government over police numbers in response to terrorist attack.
Let's just remember for a second. What did jez do when asked if he would support an ISIS fund raiser release from prison for Christmas, go absolutely no bloody way. Of course not, he supported them. FFS...Robbing old ladies to fund ISIS and jezza goes into bat for them.
Then Of course we have mcIRA who supported getting rid of the spooks. 10k more plods in panda cars but no F##king intelligence agencies, that will do the trick.
These people disgust me.
Bless.
What disgusts me at a base level is British Citizens - our friends, family and neighbours - being treated with utter disdain by Tories. Human life has meaning and value, these are people. But its OK to have a veteran starve to death in his own home. To have terminal cancer patients live out their final days in hunger and stress having been found fit to work and all their welfare stopped. To take cars and wheelchairs and home help off the disabled then bleat about them not working when thanks to you they struggle to do the basics like wash and go to the loo. To have working people doing essential jobs work their arses off but thanks to low wages and impossible rents have to rely on foodbanks, which your MPs then slag off because they all are fat and smoke and have 58" TVs. To have someone very close to you try and commit suicide twice as they live in agony with a debilitating condition getting worse with a diagnosis it will continue to cripple them then kill them - but according to the government they are fit to work and "work-shy" (despite in her case two degrees and professional qualifications she would give an arm to be able to use again).
That is what disgusts me. Apologists like you for the worst kind of sociopathic I'm OK bollocks to you"Conservatism" that would have had even Mrs Thatcher recoiling from. So if you don't mind, I will take lectures on morality from the likes of you under advisement.
I notice the labour spinners on here have been attacking tory government over police numbers in response to terrorist attack.
Let's just remember for a second. What did jez do when asked if he would support an ISIS fund raiser release from prison for Christmas, go absolutely no bloody way. Of course not, he supported them. FFS...Robbing old ladies to fund ISIS and jezza goes into bat for them.
Then Of course we have mcIRA who supported getting rid of the spooks. 10k more plods in panda cars but no F##king intelligence agencies, that will do the trick.
These people disgust me.
So you seriously use "labour spinners" in the same post as "mcIRA" I think you should save the disgust for yourself.
A man who supported the IRA...Just do one. These people are filth. Come back Ed you were a bit of a plonker but at heart a decent person.
You're entitled to your opinion, I personally believe that neither Corbyn nor McDonnell has ever supported the IRA, but I don't know and neither do you. But the fact I've got a different point of view doesn't make me a spinner any more than you are.
That was true for 2015 too, as I recall 4x expected for panel vs general public to have watched the debates.
The phone polls may be interesting, two are due. I think that we have more than enough internet ones. I have just had to suffer a Yougov on washing machines.
Not at my main computer but Struggling to work out how those final numbers co e out given that they have SCon retention well down on other surveys, far fewer LD to SCon switchers and a surge in SNP certainty to vote as far as I remember.
Survation are the same people who brought us Con 40:Lab 39 last night. For whatever reason, they have clearly developed a more strongly pro-Labour and anti-Conservative stance than any of the other pollsters.
They're going to look visionary if they're right. But they're going to look very silly indeed if, as I suspect, this is a load of rubbish.
At least there's a refreshing lack of herding this time around, and with only four days left for the polls to move oh-so-conveniently into lockstep, it doesn't look as though they will now.
Yeah we need to keep in mind that nearly all the Scottish/Welsh polls have come from pollsters on one side of the polling divide.
Certainly true for Wales. AFAIK the only Wales-specific poll is the Welsh Political Barometer, which is run by YouGov.
Interesting to note that other pollsters have very different sub-sample splits, with he Cons doing very much better....
Yeah sub-sample warning aside they do consistently indicate Cons doing better than the regional polling done by more Labour-friendly pollsters. I just think if we're second-guessing national polling we are probably wise to be cautious over regional polling.
I notice the labour spinners on here have been attacking tory government over police numbers in response to terrorist attack.
Let's just remember for a second. What did jez do when asked if he would support an ISIS fund raiser release from prison for Christmas, go absolutely no bloody way. Of course not, he supported them. FFS...Robbing old ladies to fund ISIS and jezza goes into bat for them.
Then Of course we have mcIRA who supported getting rid of the spooks. 10k more plods in panda cars but no F##king intelligence agencies, that will do the trick.
These people disgust me.
So you seriously use "labour spinners" in the same post as "mcIRA" I think you should save the disgust for yourself.
A man who supported the IRA...Just do one. These people are filth. Come back Ed you were a bit of a plonker but at heart a decent person.
You're entitled to your opinion, I personally believe that neither Corbyn nor McDonnell has ever supported the IRA, but I don't know and neither do you. But the fact I've got a different point of view doesn't make me a spinner any more than you are.
They are on record as having done so and having invited IRA members to Parliament a week after the Brighton bomb.
Not at my main computer but Struggling to work out how those final numbers co e out given that they have SCon retention well down on other surveys, far fewer LD to SCon switchers and a surge in SNP certainty to vote as far as I remember.
Survation are the same people who brought us Con 40:Lab 39 last night. For whatever reason, they have clearly developed a more strongly pro-Labour and anti-Conservative stance than any of the other pollsters.
They're going to look visionary if they're right. But they're going to look very silly indeed if, as I suspect, this is a load of rubbish.
At least there's a refreshing lack of herding this time around, and with only four days left for the polls to move oh-so-conveniently into lockstep, it doesn't look as though they will now.
I'm stumped, if I put the Survation switching matrix into my model the national Con figure matches the headline but I have Labour on 21% and SNP on 44% (Con seats would be DCT, BRS, WAK, D&G and Moray)
I'm going to have to debug my model and see if I've f'kd up anywhere.
Survations problems are using self-certified likelihood to vote, and deleting all "won't says" and "don't knows" from the sample without making any compensating adjustments to restore the demographic balance. Their poll is therefore skewed towards the young (barring a youth tsunami for Corbyn) twice over.
Find a role for Jeremy Corbyn and Tim Farron in the government and make it clear that they and Theresa May will continue to cooperate in the government after the election, whatever the result of it is.
Er.... you what mate?
Yes, bit odd that. Why no snp in that scenario?
Besides, isn't that why we have a privy council? So loto can be provided with high level info if needed.
Happy to involve the SNP. I am not sure where to draw the line or about details of implementation. It could be done through the Privy Council or in a new body. Important I think to give the party leaders actual responsibilities to take part, rather than simply saying they have been provided with information on Privy Council terms, that kind of thing. It could be a cabinet subcommittee or whatever.
I am not calling for a full-scale government of national unity, leaving nobody on the opposition benches, but for the introduction of an element of political unity beyond tweets of sympathy with the bereaved and injured, etc. There needs to be a lot more substantial coming together against the terrorist threat.
Not at my main computer but Struggling to work out how those final numbers co e out given that they have SCon retention well down on other surveys, far fewer LD to SCon switchers and a surge in SNP certainty to vote as far as I remember.
Sorry ! If I continue with the election. On the Scottish Survation with UNS:
SNP 46, CON 7, LAB 3, LD 3. Paisley and East Lothian very close for Labour. East Lothian and East Renfrewshire could be the seats of the night. 3-way fight.
Works for me. To think there were thoughts slab might end up with 0!
They still might, you pays your money & makes your choice.
* Put the army on to the streets Give them a role protecting all crowded places such as shopping centres, sporting events, and concerts. Ensure that all security staff have regular contact with the military. Increase defence education. Today it is bombs at concerts and marauders with vehicles; tomorrow it may be men with AK-47s at schools or hospitals, as in the Caucasus. Make readiness and defence more than words: mobilise the population.
The army is cut to absolute bare bones, heading for 70k men, already badly overreached
There is no army to put on the streets.
It was announced post-Manchester and amounted to about 750 squaddies, mostly in London and the big cities.
When Look North interviewer asked May if she would stop further cuts to the police she refused to answer.
When he asked her to rule out a further 16k cuts which would give the lowest police numbers for 40 years she said police is changing and refused to rule out.
What I really dont understand is why LDs like KLE4 and Pulpstar want to give May a landslide so she can enact such stupidity when it is clear Jezza has no chance of being PM and the choice is between a good size majority and a LANDSLIDE.
Scottish Survation tactical voting question sees over 50% of 2015 con,LD,lab voters willing to tactical vote.
Though will the SLAB tactical vote be Anti Sturgeon or anti May?
Corbyn promised to revive Lab in Scotland. Maybe he is. Corbynism sweeping the nation...
Anti Sturgeon would appear much more likely
I would have agreed with you if not for the bold Conservative pronouncements of how well they are about to do in Scotland. That will have sharpened a few loyal SLab voters views.
Not at my main computer but Struggling to work out how those final numbers co e out given that they have SCon retention well down on other surveys, far fewer LD to SCon switchers and a surge in SNP certainty to vote as far as I remember.
Sorry ! If I continue with the election. On the Scottish Survation with UNS:
SNP 46, CON 7, LAB 3, LD 3. Paisley and East Lothian very close for Labour. East Lothian and East Renfrewshire could be the seats of the night. 3-way fight.
Works for me. To think there were thoughts slab might end up with 0!
They still might, you pays your money & makes your choice.
* Put the army on to the streets Give them a role protecting all crowded places such as shopping centres, sporting events, and concerts. Ensure that all security staff have regular contact with the military. Increase defence education. Today it is bombs at concerts and marauders with vehicles; tomorrow it may be men with AK-47s at schools or hospitals, as in the Caucasus. Make readiness and defence more than words: mobilise the population.
The army is cut to absolute bare bones, heading for 70k men, already badly overreached
There is no army to put on the streets.
Your second sentence is an exaggeration. As for the first - yes indeed! Cut other commitments. There are still British forces in Afghanistan. They can defend Britain better if brought home.
Enormous resources are spent on NATO involvement too.
Don't tell me we are going to have a referendum on being in NATO next....
Not at my main computer but Struggling to work out how those final numbers co e out given that they have SCon retention well down on other surveys, far fewer LD to SCon switchers and a surge in SNP certainty to vote as far as I remember.
Sorry ! If I continue with the election. On the Scottish Survation with UNS:
SNP 46, CON 7, LAB 3, LD 3. Paisley and East Lothian very close for Labour. East Lothian and East Renfrewshire could be the seats of the night. 3-way fight.
Works for me. To think there were thoughts slab might end up with 0!
They still might, you pays your money & makes your choice.
I notice the labour spinners on here have been attacking tory government over police numbers in response to terrorist attack.
Let's just remember for a second. What did jez do when asked if he would support an ISIS fund raiser release from prison for Christmas, go absolutely no bloody way. Of course not, he supported them. FFS...Robbing old ladies to fund ISIS and jezza goes into bat for them.
Then Of course we have mcIRA who supported getting rid of the spooks. 10k more plods in panda cars but no F##king intelligence agencies, that will do the trick.
These people disgust me.
So you seriously use "labour spinners" in the same post as "mcIRA" I think you should save the disgust for yourself.
A man who supported the IRA...Just do one. These people are filth. Come back Ed you were a bit of a plonker but at heart a decent person.
You're entitled to your opinion, I personally believe that neither Corbyn nor McDonnell has ever supported the IRA, but I don't know and neither do you. But the fact I've got a different point of view doesn't make me a spinner any more than you are.
They are on record as having done so and having invited IRA members to Parliament a week after the Brighton bomb.
Okay, find the record of them supporting any IRA activity. and at the same time, the Thatcher government was have meetings with the same people and actually funding what would become Al-Qaeda. So if meeting IRA members in the mid 80s is the same as supporting them, was Willie Whitelaw a "McIRA" too?
Treat these scumbags with the contempt they deserve.
Politics is going on.
Someone yesterday asked if the Tories are running down the clock. I suspect they are - they've taken Corbyn off the board, but leaving the local GOTV efforts ongoing.
I notice the labour spinners on here have been attacking tory government over police numbers in response to terrorist attack.
Let's just remember for a second. What did jez do when asked if he would support an ISIS fund raiser release from prison for Christmas, go absolutely no bloody way. Of course not, he supported them. FFS...Robbing old ladies to fund ISIS and jezza goes into bat for them.
Then Of course we have mcIRA who supported getting rid of the spooks. 10k more plods in panda cars but no F##king intelligence agencies, that will do the trick.
These people disgust me.
It's not Labour spin to note that the Conservative government and Home Secretary May have cut 20,000 from police numbers and significantly denuded the armed forces. Opposition parties and some Tory MP's and PBers have been critical of this foolishness for years.
The Conservative government seems to have forgotten their first duty, which most certainly is not calling a totally unnecessary general election for purely party interest
Lots of us have been very critical of May's border and police cuts and have been damning over Tory defence cuts. The issue is that I don't think Labour would have done anything differently and Jez would most definitely make everything worse.
I do hope that the government reverse all of the defence cuts and domestic security cuts over the next few years.
Quite so.
The acute political problem for the Tories is that when the music stopped in 2010 and 2015 they were in the hot seat. With power come responsibility and accountability.
With Theresa May as Home Secretary and PM the buck on these serious deficiencies stops with her. And we have no commitments to reverse this shocking dereliction of duty.
Scottish Survation tactical voting question sees over 50% of 2015 con,LD,lab voters willing to tactical vote.
I've been thinking about this. Would a Tory leaning unionist be prepared to vote Labour? I've had a few quid on Labour in East Renfrewshire and Paisley and Renfrewshire South. Both 14-1.
Not in East Renfrewshire they wouldn't. Serious Tory target. Which kind of illustrates the problem.
Tory majority over 100 nailed on. pile money into it.
Has there been a lucky general than Theresa May!
People thought that after Manchester but it didn't happen.
Terrorism is normal in the uk. The authorities can't stop it and the people blame the left.
No they don't. Let's say the Tories win by 15 points on Thursdays - early polls said it was possible and it's only a little off from some polls now, so if it happened then likely nothing to do with recent terrorism events.
72 per cent having heard of the TM/JC QT is not absurdly high. Eastenders, the One Show and Breakfast viewers will have seen the BBC's trailers and extracts. 72% having watched QT is absurdly high but that is not what is measured here.
* Put the army on to the streets Give them a role protecting all crowded places such as shopping centres, sporting events, and concerts. Ensure that all security staff have regular contact with the military. Increase defence education. Today it is bombs at concerts and marauders with vehicles; tomorrow it may be men with AK-47s at schools or hospitals, as in the Caucasus. Make readiness and defence more than words: mobilise the population.
The army is cut to absolute bare bones, heading for 70k men, already badly overreached
There is no army to put on the streets.
Your second sentence is an exaggeration. As for the first - yes indeed! Cut other commitments. There are still British forces in Afghanistan. They can defend Britain better if brought home.
Enormous resources are spent on NATO involvement too.
Don't tell me we are going to have a referendum on being in NATO next....
Personally, I am not asking for a saving but shifting resources. Defence 1.8% and all matters relating to defence against terrorism [ SAS types, cyber security, cyber intelligence ] given the 0.2% of GDP saved.
In other words spend money on people and intelligence rather than white elephants.
Tory majority over 100 nailed on. pile money into it.
Has there been a lucky general than Theresa May!
People thought that after Manchester but it didn't happen.
How do we know? The opinion polls suggested no movement, but the opinion polls are all over the shop. And even if there was no major shift in voting intention after Manchester, how do we know that there was any meaningful change in the period *before* then?
If there is a Tory landslide at the end of all of this then there'll be years of work for academics in trying to establish why - although the real reasons will probably be very simple. The fundamentals of the election were baked in before campaigning started; the polls before the election over-estimated the Tory lead, and (some of) those during it over-estimated Labour's strength (i.e. they have told us little that is true, and little of value); and, consequently, election campaigns are of relatively little importance in determining the outcome, as many analysts had always suspected.
Then again, YouGov and Survation might be bang on and we could end up with a Hung Parliament, as a result of May's blunders and Corbyn's superior campaigning skills.
We don't have long to find out which explanation is more likely to be correct.
I notice the labour spinners on here have been attacking tory government over police numbers in response to terrorist attack.
Let's just remember for a second. What did jez do when asked if he would support an ISIS fund raiser release from prison for Christmas, go absolutely no bloody way. Of course not, he supported them. FFS...Robbing old ladies to fund ISIS and jezza goes into bat for them.
Then Of course we have mcIRA who supported getting rid of the spooks. 10k more plods in panda cars but no F##king intelligence agencies, that will do the trick.
These people disgust me.
It's not Labour spin to note that the Conservative government and Home Secretary May have cut 20,000 from police numbers and significantly denuded the armed forces. Opposition parties and some Tory MP's and PBers have been critical of this foolishness for years.
The Conservative government seems to have forgotten their first duty, which most certainly is not calling a totally unnecessary general election for purely party interest
Lots of us have been very critical of May's border and police cuts and have been damning over Tory defence cuts. The issue is that I don't think Labour would have done anything differently and Jez would most definitely make everything worse.
I do hope that the government reverse all of the defence cuts and domestic security cuts over the next few years.
Well labour and ld are now only pledging to eliminate deficit in day to day spending, and Tories the whole thing but pushed Back to mid 2020s, i.e. Another lifetime practically, so no better time to reverse the cuts.
Scottish Survation tactical voting question sees over 50% of 2015 con,LD,lab voters willing to tactical vote.
I've been thinking about this. Would a Tory leaning unionist be prepared to vote Labour? I've had a few quid on Labour in East Renfrewshire and Paisley and Renfrewshire South. Both 14-1.
Not in East Renfrewshire they wouldn't. Serious Tory target. Which kind of illustrates the problem.
Certainly difficult to see the Tories attracting Labour unionists. But yes, it's probably an SNP hold, but it could be very tight between all three of them.
Tory majority over 100 nailed on. pile money into it.
Has there been a lucky general than Theresa May!
People thought that after Manchester but it didn't happen.
Terrorism is normal in the uk. The authorities can't stop it and the people blame the left.
No they don't. Let's say the Tories win by 15 points on Thursdays - early polls said it was possible and it's only a little off from some polls now, so if it happened then likely nothing to do with recent terrorism events.
Look we've had three terrorist attacks since March under Theresa May. The electorate never punishes or holds the government to account and the left is to blame for terrorism.
The tories are counting down the clock and using terrorism as a way to suspend campaigning. So Theresa May can do her typical blowhard "im tough, we wont wilt" and it will be over the news all day.
Great day to be a Conservative. Local campaigns continue. Prime Minister speaking platitudes about terrorism and how we will not be defeated and must go on.
Tories have been counting down the clock since they called the election.
Scottish Survation tactical voting question sees over 50% of 2015 con,LD,lab voters willing to tactical vote.
I've been thinking about this. Would a Tory leaning unionist be prepared to vote Labour? I've had a few quid on Labour in East Renfrewshire and Paisley and Renfrewshire South. Both 14-1.
Not in East Renfrewshire they wouldn't. Serious Tory target. Which kind of illustrates the problem.
Snphokd on as vote splits. Those 30+% increases last time have given them a lot of protection.
Scottish Survation tactical voting question sees over 50% of 2015 con,LD,lab voters willing to tactical vote.
I've been thinking about this. Would a Tory leaning unionist be prepared to vote Labour? I've had a few quid on Labour in East Renfrewshire and Paisley and Renfrewshire South. Both 14-1.
Not in East Renfrewshire they wouldn't. Serious Tory target. Which kind of illustrates the problem.
That is partisan - it is only a problem from an anti-SNP tactical voting perspective.
That still leaves cuts of 20,000 to the Police, 30,000 to the army, cuts to the security services, cuts to the emergency services, cuts to the NHS, - the Tories keeping the country safe? Answers please to T May, c/o 10 Downing Street - at least until June 9th.
I notice the labour spinners on here have been attacking tory government over police numbers in response to terrorist attack.
Let's just remember for a second. What did jez do when asked if he would support an ISIS fund raiser release from prison for Christmas, go absolutely no bloody way. Of course not, he supported them. FFS...Robbing old ladies to fund ISIS and jezza goes into bat for them.
Then Of course we have mcIRA who supported getting rid of the spooks. 10k more plods in panda cars but no F##king intelligence agencies, that will do the trick.
These people disgust me.
It's not Labour spin to note that the Conservative government and Home Secretary May have cut 20,000 from police numbers and significantly denuded the armed forces. Opposition parties and some Tory MP's and PBers have been critical of this foolishness for years.
The Conservative government seems to have forgotten their first duty, which most certainly is not calling a totally unnecessary general election for purely party interest
Lots of us have been very critical of May's border and police cuts and have been damning over Tory defence cuts. The issue is that I don't think Labour would have done anything differently and Jez would most definitely make everything worse.
I do hope that the government reverse all of the defence cuts and domestic security cuts over the next few years.
Well labour and ld are now only pledging to eliminate deficit in day to day spending, and Tories the whole thing but pushed Back to mid 2020s, i.e. Another lifetime practically, so no better time to reverse the cuts.
In a few short years removing the deficit has gone from an overriding necessity to a political slogan, merely a piece of lip service. None of the parties' plans will be able to avoid it rising sharply again, the minute the next economic downturn begins.
Comments
They're going to look visionary if they're right. But they're going to look very silly indeed if, as I suspect, this is a load of rubbish.
At least there's a refreshing lack of herding this time around, and with only four days left for the polls to move oh-so-conveniently into lockstep, it doesn't look as though they will now.
There is no army to put on the streets.
https://twitter.com/Survation/status/871270846224113665
Besides, isn't that why we have a privy council? So loto can be provided with high level info if needed.
SNP 46, CON 7, LAB 3, LD 3. Paisley and East Lothian very close for Labour. East Lothian and East Renfrewshire could be the seats of the night. 3-way fight.
Enormous resources are spent on NATO involvement too.
2. We cant Trump wouldnt like it
3. We cant Tory donors wouldnt be able to maximise arms sales profit
4. She wont would make her look weaker and wobblier
The Conservative government seems to have forgotten their first duty, which most certainly is not calling a totally unnecessary general election for purely party interest
What disgusts me at a base level is British Citizens - our friends, family and neighbours - being treated with utter disdain by Tories. Human life has meaning and value, these are people. But its OK to have a veteran starve to death in his own home. To have terminal cancer patients live out their final days in hunger and stress having been found fit to work and all their welfare stopped. To take cars and wheelchairs and home help off the disabled then bleat about them not working when thanks to you they struggle to do the basics like wash and go to the loo. To have working people doing essential jobs work their arses off but thanks to low wages and impossible rents have to rely on foodbanks, which your MPs then slag off because they all are fat and smoke and have 58" TVs. To have someone very close to you try and commit suicide twice as they live in agony with a debilitating condition getting worse with a diagnosis it will continue to cripple them then kill them - but according to the government they are fit to work and "work-shy" (despite in her case two degrees and professional qualifications she would give an arm to be able to use again).
That is what disgusts me. Apologists like you for the worst kind of sociopathic I'm OK bollocks to you"Conservatism" that would have had even Mrs Thatcher recoiling from. So if you don't mind, I will take lectures on morality from the likes of you under advisement.
https://twitter.com/jamesdmorris/status/871094429356101634
[DavidL said:
In the short term yes. But she has been terrible these last 4 weeks. She has no natural ability for this at all. Doesn't make her a bad PM of course. I just can't see her doing this again.]
And to be fair, many years as an MP, 6 years as Home Secretary and 4 or 5 as PM will be more than enough public service to warrant the gratitude of the nation, especially as she stood up to deliver Brexit against the direst warnings from her colleagues during the referendum campaign as to what Brexit would mean for Britain.
The only storm cloud on the horizon will be if the Brexit negotiations are perceived to be going badly. At that point,, there might be murmurings that "she was poor in the election campaign...time to move on...fresh team to deal with Brussels..."
*All the above predicated of course on her winning a useable majority on Thursday.
Corbyn promised to revive Lab in Scotland. Maybe he is. Corbynism sweeping the nation...
https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/871281721081253888
Has there been a lucky general than Theresa May!
I'm going to have to debug my model and see if I've f'kd up anywhere.
I do hope that the government reverse all of the defence cuts and domestic security cuts over the next few years.
https://twitter.com/GeoffShadbold/status/871280328991805440
Have a good day all, don't let fear change your plans in life. Don't give them the satisfaction.
The Tories are absolutely reliant on those final canvass returns, and Messina/Crosby's data crunching and direction.
The phone polls may be interesting, two are due. I think that we have more than enough internet ones. I have just had to suffer a Yougov on washing machines.
I am not calling for a full-scale government of national unity, leaving nobody on the opposition benches, but for the introduction of an element of political unity beyond tweets of sympathy with the bereaved and injured, etc. There needs to be a lot more substantial coming together against the terrorist threat.
Elsewhere, good news from Emily Thornberry on Marr: suggesting that Labour will resume its national campaign tonight.
When he asked her to rule out a further 16k cuts which would give the lowest police numbers for 40 years she said police is changing and refused to rule out.
What I really dont understand is why LDs like KLE4 and Pulpstar want to give May a landslide so she can enact such stupidity when it is clear Jezza has no chance of being PM and the choice is between a good size majority and a LANDSLIDE.
Mr. Junkie McAstroturf, yes. Alexander the Great. Or Julian the Apostate during the civil war.
PB didn't creak on GE2015 night nor on June 23rd or on the night of US Presidential election.
http://tinyurl.com/y9kckcg6
Not as much variation between the pollsters but they generally overstated the SNP and understated the Conservatives and the Lib Dems.
Someone yesterday asked if the Tories are running down the clock. I suspect they are - they've taken Corbyn off the board, but leaving the local GOTV efforts ongoing.
Weather will have a role to play as well, of course.
The acute political problem for the Tories is that when the music stopped in 2010 and 2015 they were in the hot seat. With power come responsibility and accountability.
With Theresa May as Home Secretary and PM the buck on these serious deficiencies stops with her. And we have no commitments to reverse this shocking dereliction of duty.
In other words spend money on people and intelligence rather than white elephants.
If there is a Tory landslide at the end of all of this then there'll be years of work for academics in trying to establish why - although the real reasons will probably be very simple. The fundamentals of the election were baked in before campaigning started; the polls before the election over-estimated the Tory lead, and (some of) those during it over-estimated Labour's strength (i.e. they have told us little that is true, and little of value); and, consequently, election campaigns are of relatively little importance in determining the outcome, as many analysts had always suspected.
Then again, YouGov and Survation might be bang on and we could end up with a Hung Parliament, as a result of May's blunders and Corbyn's superior campaigning skills.
We don't have long to find out which explanation is more likely to be correct.
The tories are counting down the clock and using terrorism as a way to suspend campaigning. So Theresa May can do her typical blowhard "im tough, we wont wilt" and it will be over the news all day.
Great day to be a Conservative. Local campaigns continue. Prime Minister speaking platitudes about terrorism and how we will not be defeated and must go on.
Tories have been counting down the clock since they called the election.
The old may do so, who would have voted anyway, a chunk of the young may say they will, but won't get around to voting anyway.