politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Both ICM and YouGov find CON dominance amongst the oldies is n
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Both ICM and YouGov find CON dominance amongst the oldies is not as strong as before the manifesto launch
It is one of the overwhelming features of this election that the Tories have a huge advantage with the oldies – those aged 65 or more. So as was widely observed at the time of TMay’s manifesto launch her moves to limit winter fuel allowance and introduce what has become widely known as the dementia tax was a huge risk.
Comments
-
First
0 -
Interesting that YouGov didn't see any change until the latest poll.
ComRes doesn't show this trend, with the following Con/Lab splits (not accounting for DKs) for 65+
10-12 May: 62/15
24-26 May: 61/17
So maybe it is something in the last week of May that caused this?0 -
Impossible to tell from the graphs - how much was due to decline in Con support and how much was due to growth in Lab support?
Meanwhile in other news:
https://twitter.com/DrScottThinks/status/8702364095625830440 -
Survation splits for 55+ are:
12-13 May 56/23
19-20 May 53/24
26-27 May 53/270 -
The biggest drop in Con lead with ComRes happened before the manifesto launch, the biggest drop with YouGov nearly a fortnight after it. Suggests something else is afoot....0
-
surbiton said:
FPT.AndyJS said:If the Tories were defending large numbers of marginals in London against Labour they would probably be panicking right now. The reason they're not is because of this list:
Labour in second place:
Croydon Central 0.3%
Hendon 7.5%
Harrow East 9.7%
Enfield Southgate 10.4%
Finchley & Golders Green 11.2%
Chipping Barnet 14.4%
Battersea 15.6%
Chingford & Woodford Green 19.1%
Bexleyheath & Crayford 21.0%
Kensington 21.1%
Putney 23.8%
Uxbridge 23.9%
Wimbledon 26.1%
Cities of London & Westminster 26.7%
Croydon South 29.7%
Bromley 30.8%
Old Bexley & Sidcup 33.8%
Beckenham 37.8%
Ruislip 39.5%
Chelsea & Fulham 39.8%
UKIP in second place:
Hornchurch & Upminster 23.7%
Romford 28.2%
Orpington 40.7%
LDs in second place:
Twickenham 3.3%
Kingston & Surbiton 4.8%
Sutton & Cheam 7.9%
Richmond Park 38.9%
The London poll is very similar to the 1997 results. Therefore, all those seats which went to Labour in that year, comes into play.
I expect a big drop in the Tory margin in Chingford. There was a large swing against the Tories in 2015. I believe this will continue.0 -
Here's the ICM series going back to before the election was called. OGH chose a very nice place to start the seriesCarlottaVance said:Impossible to tell from the graphs - how much was due to decline in Con support and how much was due to growth in Lab support?
02-Apr 61/12, +49
17-Apr 61/13, +48
18-Apr 68/12, +56
21-Apr 66/15, +51
24-Apr 62/15, +47
28-Apr 64/14, +50
02-May 66/13, +53
05-May 62/17, +45
07-May 73/11, +62
14-May 67/15, +52
21-May 65/18, +47
26-May 62/21, +41
29-May 64/20, +44
0 -
So, real growth for Labour, with the Tories back to where they were before the GE announcement spike.RobD said:
Here's the ICM series going back to before the election was called. OGH chose a very nice place to start the seriesCarlottaVance said:Impossible to tell from the graphs - how much was due to decline in Con support and how much was due to growth in Lab support?
02-Apr 61/12, +49
17-Apr 61/13, +48
18-Apr 68/12, +56
21-Apr 66/15, +51
24-Apr 62/15, +47
28-Apr 64/14, +50
02-May 66/13, +53
05-May 62/17, +45
07-May 73/11, +62
14-May 67/15, +52
21-May 65/18, +47
26-May 62/21, +41
29-May 64/20, +440 -
Will be interesting to check their figures in their next poll, which should be Sun on Sunday with fieldwork ending today (Fri), if what they did last week is repeated.CarlottaVance said:
So, real growth for Labour, with the Tories back to where they were before the GE announcement spike.0 -
Labour and UKIP both gained a lot of voters in 2015. If you're a Kipper who doesn't like IDS, you're not likely to be a natural Tory, so perhaps it's Labour who will benefit from UKIP not standing.RobD said:UKIP not standing, so that may help offset that.
0 -
According to the YouGov poll (I know), the Tories are picking up 50% of the 2015 UKIP vote, Labour 13%.williamglenn said:
Labour and UKIP both gained a lot of voters in 2015. If you're a Kipper who doesn't like IDS, you're not likely to be a natural Tory, so perhaps it's Labour who will benefit from UKIP not standing.0 -
Police anti-terror raids in Sheffield and Huddersfield:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-401266140 -
Good Morning PBers Worldwide ....
Do we have the overnight Conservative Bedwetters numbers in yet?0 -
Seems like a harsh reaction to the football play-offs ....Nigelb said:Police anti-terror raids in Sheffield and Huddersfield:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-401266140 -
SkyNews voxpox from Con marginal of Lincoln.
Usual caveats but not promising for Labour. Hardly surprising from the heart of Brexitshire.0 -
Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?0 -
The bedwetters are all editing national newspapers if the hysterical front pages are any guide.JackW said:Good Morning PBers Worldwide ....
Do we have the overnight Conservative Bedwetters numbers in yet?0 -
Why are the righties so cheery? Have they forgotten Mrs Thatcher was the first world leader to warn of global warming (not to mention reducing our reliance on coal)?Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?0 -
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
0 -
The Tory press gunning for Corbyn during the general election.DecrepitJohnL said:
The bedwetters are all editing national newspapers if the hysterical front pages are any guide.JackW said:Good Morning PBers Worldwide ....
Do we have the overnight Conservative Bedwetters numbers in yet?
Well .... knock me down with an Ed Stone ....0 -
tskSouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
I ask a simple question about coal and before you know it its the new world order
what if it was just the Left was wrong in 1985 ?0 -
It is the sudden hysterical tone that is surprising. Sir Lynton of Crosby must have panicked when he read yesterday's pb threads and sent a memo to Fleet Street.JackW said:
The Tory press gunning for Corbyn during the general election.DecrepitJohnL said:
The bedwetters are all editing national newspapers if the hysterical front pages are any guide.JackW said:Good Morning PBers Worldwide ....
Do we have the overnight Conservative Bedwetters numbers in yet?
Well .... knock me down with an Ed Stone ....0 -
When even the CEO of Exxon Mobil thinks it stupidity, it takes a peculiar arrogance to side with Syria and Nicaragua against the rest of the world.SouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
0 -
It was. So was the right. Deindustrialisation was handled appallingly in the UK (see squandering of North Sea oil money, for example). We continue to pay the price now - particularly outside London.Alanbrooke said:
tskSouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
I ask a simple question about coal and before you know it its the new world order
what if it was just the Left was wrong in 1985 ?
0 -
I cant see the Trump climate denial having much impact on the GE here, a few hundred extra votes for the Green candidates perhaps, maybe even a few kept deposits0
-
Jeremy Corbyn supported Nicaragua and SyriaNigelb said:
When even the CEO of Exxon Mobil thinks it stupidity, it takes a peculiar arrogance to side with Syria and Nicaragua against the rest of the world.SouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
Donald's just an old leftie0 -
lolSouthamObserver said:
It was. So was the right. Deindustrialisation was handled appallingly in the UK (see squandering of North Sea oil money, for example). We continue to pay the price now - particularly outside London.Alanbrooke said:
tskSouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
I ask a simple question about coal and before you know it its the new world order
what if it was just the Left was wrong in 1985 ?
if you could just have kept that to the first two wordsthat would have been a brave post :-)0 -
I see you're in trolling mode this morning! I am 53 today and feeling old, so will not partake. Off to Aldeburgh for the weekend later. Looking forward to hearing and seeing the sea, and eating and drinking my fill. My wife has said it's my birthday present; but as I'm paying for it and driving us there I am not sure how that works!Alanbrooke said:
lolSouthamObserver said:
It was. So was the right. Deindustrialisation was handled appallingly in the UK (see squandering of North Sea oil money, for example). We continue to pay the price now - particularly outside London.Alanbrooke said:
tskSouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
I ask a simple question about coal and before you know it its the new world order
what if it was just the Left was wrong in 1985 ?
if you could just have kept that to the first two wordsthat would have been a brave post :-)
0 -
Happy birthday and here's to many more of them!SouthamObserver said:
I see you're in trolling mode this morning! I am 53 today and feeling old, so will not partake. Off to Aldeburgh for the weekend later. Looking forward to hearing and seeing the sea, and eating and drinking my fill. My wife has said it's my birthday present; but as I'm paying for it and driving us there I am not sure how that works!Alanbrooke said:
lolSouthamObserver said:
It was. So was the right. Deindustrialisation was handled appallingly in the UK (see squandering of North Sea oil money, for example). We continue to pay the price now - particularly outside London.Alanbrooke said:
tskSouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
I ask a simple question about coal and before you know it its the new world order
what if it was just the Left was wrong in 1985 ?
if you could just have kept that to the first two wordsthat would have been a brave post :-)
Sounds as though your wife has a remarkable notion of how to get people to pay for their own giveaways. Would she be interested in a job in London, complete with grace and favour flat and country house, modest salary, rumoured to become vacant shortly? She would appear to be the ideal CotE!0 -
The only surprise is that anyone is surprised that the Tory press wouldn't ratchet up the klaxons further as we enter the final week of campaigning.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is the sudden hysterical tone that is surprising. Sir Lynton of Crosby must have panicked when he read yesterday's pb threads and sent a memo to Fleet Street.JackW said:
The Tory press gunning for Corbyn during the general election.DecrepitJohnL said:
The bedwetters are all editing national newspapers if the hysterical front pages are any guide.JackW said:Good Morning PBers Worldwide ....
Do we have the overnight Conservative Bedwetters numbers in yet?
Well .... knock me down with an Ed Stone ....
Probably the last time they didn't was the 1832 election .... when all the Tory editors spent the campaign in the Dunny-on-the Wold spa, partaking of fornication, fundumptiousness and farting to a level unsurpassed since the infamous Danegeld Election of AD991.0 -
oh its good to start the morning with a gentle troll :-)SouthamObserver said:
I see you're in trolling mode this morning! I am 53 today and feeling old, so will not partake. Off to Aldeburgh for the weekend later. Looking forward to hearing and seeing the sea, and eating and drinking my fill. My wife has said it's my birthday present; but as I'm paying for it and driving us there I am not sure how that works!Alanbrooke said:
lolSouthamObserver said:
It was. So was the right. Deindustrialisation was handled appallingly in the UK (see squandering of North Sea oil money, for example). We continue to pay the price now - particularly outside London.Alanbrooke said:
tskSouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
I ask a simple question about coal and before you know it its the new world order
what if it was just the Left was wrong in 1985 ?
if you could just have kept that to the first two wordsthat would have been a brave post :-)
I have to say Snap as it's my wifes birthday today - she's 55 - so Ive been serving her breakfast in bed.
have a cracking weekend, just think this time next week you couuld be waking up to Jezza PM!0 -
TM must know that there's a decent chance Donald is going to be impeached/will quit.SouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
Why would you put yourself next to such an unpredictable and unreliable person who may not be around that long and can't seem to get anything done in Congress?0 -
53 is old ............... Tsk .............SouthamObserver said:I see you're in trolling mode this morning! I am 53 today and feeling old, so will not partake. Off to Aldeburgh for the weekend later. Looking forward to hearing and seeing the sea, and eating and drinking my fill. My wife has said it's my birthday present; but as I'm paying for it and driving us there I am not sure how that works!
Happy Birthday Young Un ..... 0 -
Happy birthday SO.
Enjoy Aldeburgh. A truly lovely part of the coast.0 -
She is very good at spending other people's money!!! A place in the first Corbyn cabinet awaits. I got home from a couple of days working in London last night to find her and my daughter had put a Labour poster in our window!! We've been married 28 years. They have been truly wonderful. But that was a low blow.ydoethur said:
Happy birthday and here's to many more of them!SouthamObserver said:
I see you're in trolling mode this morning! I am 53 today and feeling old, so will not partake. Off to Aldeburgh for the weekend later. Looking forward to hearing and seeing the sea, and eating and drinking my fill. My wife has said it's my birthday present; but as I'm paying for it and driving us there I am not sure how that works!Alanbrooke said:
lolSouthamObserver said:
It was. So was the right. Deindustrialisation was handled appallingly in the UK (see squandering of North Sea oil money, for example). We continue to pay the price now - particularly outside London.Alanbrooke said:
tskSouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
I ask a simple question about coal and before you know it its the new world order
what if it was just the Left was wrong in 1985 ?
if you could just have kept that to the first two wordsthat would have been a brave post :-)
Sounds as though your wife has a remarkable notion of how to get people to pay for their own giveaways. Would she be interested in a job in London, complete with grace and favour flat and country house, modest salary, rumoured to become vacant shortly? She would appear to be the ideal CotE!
0 -
Interesting to see that the mid point projection for the Tories in the daily YouGov model for The Times has inched up in the last two days. Was 310 on Wednesday, 311 yesterday and 317 this morning. No headline figures are given today but will be interesting to watch the direction of drift over the next few days.0
-
Yes, you're providing the basics, but the *cough* extras are your birthday treats.JackW said:
53 is old ............... Tsk .............SouthamObserver said:I see you're in trolling mode this morning! I am 53 today and feeling old, so will not partake. Off to Aldeburgh for the weekend later. Looking forward to hearing and seeing the sea, and eating and drinking my fill. My wife has said it's my birthday present; but as I'm paying for it and driving us there I am not sure how that works!
Happy Birthday Young Un .....0 -
Dear oh dear. Do they not read your contributions to PB?SouthamObserver said:
She is very good at spending other people's money!!! A place in the first Corbyn cabinet awaits. I got home from a couple of days working in London last night to find her and my daughter had put a Labour poster in our window!! We've been married 28 years. They have been truly wonderful. But that was a low blow.ydoethur said:
Happy birthday and here's to many more of them!SouthamObserver said:
I see you're in trolling mode this morning! I am 53 today and feeling old, so will not partake. Off to Aldeburgh for the weekend later. Looking forward to hearing and seeing the sea, and eating and drinking my fill. My wife has said it's my birthday present; but as I'm paying for it and driving us there I am not sure how that works!Alanbrooke said:
lolSouthamObserver said:
It was. So was the right. Deindustrialisation was handled appallingly in the UK (see squandering of North Sea oil money, for example). We continue to pay the price now - particularly outside London.Alanbrooke said:
tskSouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
I ask a simple question about coal and before you know it its the new world order
what if it was just the Left was wrong in 1985 ?
if you could just have kept that to the first two wordsthat would have been a brave post :-)
Sounds as though your wife has a remarkable notion of how to get people to pay for their own giveaways. Would she be interested in a job in London, complete with grace and favour flat and country house, modest salary, rumoured to become vacant shortly? She would appear to be the ideal CotE!
Many happy returns of the day.0 -
Im very disappointed that we havent had an EU evil empire tries to influence the election storyJackW said:
The only surprise is that anyone is surprised that the Tory press wouldn't ratchet up the klaxons further as we enter the final week of campaigning.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is the sudden hysterical tone that is surprising. Sir Lynton of Crosby must have panicked when he read yesterday's pb threads and sent a memo to Fleet Street.JackW said:
The Tory press gunning for Corbyn during the general election.DecrepitJohnL said:
The bedwetters are all editing national newspapers if the hysterical front pages are any guide.JackW said:Good Morning PBers Worldwide ....
Do we have the overnight Conservative Bedwetters numbers in yet?
Well .... knock me down with an Ed Stone ....
Probably the last time they didn't was the 1832 election .... when all the Tory editors spent the campaign in the Dunny-on-the Wold spa, partaking of fornication, fundumptiousness and farting to a level unsurpassed since the infamous Danegeld Election of AD991.
0 -
Herding? Mind you they have a long way to go.AndrewSpencer said:Interesting to see that the mid point projection for the Tories in the daily YouGov model for The Times has inched up in the last two days. Was 310 on Wednesday, 311 yesterday and 317 this morning. No headline figures are given today but will be interesting to watch the direction of drift over the next few days.
0 -
Absolutely the reality of 'Can't pay ( dad's care bills) we'll take the property away' is frightening especially for those who had their children later in life or for those needing care earlier in their 70s. This potentially affects all house owners and affects many families full on.
Its also a lottery based on whether we ( baby boomers) or for younger readers parents get dementia compared to cancer, strokes, heart disease, disabilities which currently may demand no house sale. It goes to the heart of what type of society we are- most UK voters would prefer the Lib Dem approach pay a few more pennies on income tax for European style health and social care - pool the risk or at least get a balance - not indifferent right wing American public policy misery.0 -
I think they may have accepted that some of their assessments were "brave"..... It will soon inch up to the point where the Tories have a majority and the whole damned exercise - of trying to find a way to make this election look kinda close - will have ceased.AndrewSpencer said:Interesting to see that the mid point projection for the Tories in the daily YouGov model for The Times has inched up in the last two days. Was 310 on Wednesday, 311 yesterday and 317 this morning. No headline figures are given today but will be interesting to watch the direction of drift over the next few days.
Hopefully that will then be the end of this little experiment with polling-as-entertainment.0 -
Incidentally either the Times or the Beeb have made a bit of a faux pas this morning.
Reporting on the SNP/Labour rumours, the BBC quotes the Times as saying Emily Thornberry, 'the Shadow Home Secretary', will set out the stall for a coalition later.
I refuse on principle to give money to the third-rate pseudo-American pornographer. Is someone with more elastic principles able to confirm if it's the Times that has made a muck of this (which would call the story as a whole into question) or Auntie?0 -
Cheers! We have discussed, but our house is a democracy. The will of the people must be respected, even if it stinks :-)DavidL said:
Dear oh dear. Do they not read your contributions to PB?SouthamObserver said:
She is very good at spending other people's money!!! A place in the first Corbyn cabinet awaits. I got home from a couple of days working in London last night to find her and my daughter had put a Labour poster in our window!! We've been married 28 years. They have been truly wonderful. But that was a low blow.ydoethur said:
Happy birthday and here's to many more of them!SouthamObserver said:
I see you're in trolling mode this morning! I am 53 today and feeling old, so will not partake. Off to Aldeburgh for the weekend later. Looking forward to hearing and seeing the sea, and eating and drinking my fill. My wife has said it's my birthday present; but as I'm paying for it and driving us there I am not sure how that works!Alanbrooke said:
lolSouthamObserver said:
It was. So was the right. Deindustrialisation was handled appallingly in the UK (see squandering of North Sea oil money, for example). We continue to pay the price now - particularly outside London.Alanbrooke said:
tskSouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
I ask a simple question about coal and before you know it its the new world order
what if it was just the Left was wrong in 1985 ?
if you could just have kept that to the first two wordsthat would have been a brave post :-)
Sounds as though your wife has a remarkable notion of how to get people to pay for their own giveaways. Would she be interested in a job in London, complete with grace and favour flat and country house, modest salary, rumoured to become vacant shortly? She would appear to be the ideal CotE!
Many happy returns of the day.
0 -
Bummer of a birthday present.SouthamObserver said:
She is very good at spending other people's money!!! A place in the first Corbyn cabinet awaits. I got home from a couple of days working in London last night to find her and my daughter had put a Labour poster in our window!! We've been married 28 years. They have been truly wonderful. But that was a low blow.ydoethur said:
Happy birthday and here's to many more of them!SouthamObserver said:
I see you're in trolling mode this morning! I am 53 today and feeling old, so will not partake. Off to Aldeburgh for the weekend later. Looking forward to hearing and seeing the sea, and eating and drinking my fill. My wife has said it's my birthday present; but as I'm paying for it and driving us there I am not sure how that works!Alanbrooke said:
lolSouthamObserver said:
It was. So was the right. Deindustrialisation was handled appallingly in the UK (see squandering of North Sea oil money, for example). We continue to pay the price now - particularly outside London.Alanbrooke said:
tskSouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
I ask a simple question about coal and before you know it its the new world order
what if it was just the Left was wrong in 1985 ?
if you could just have kept that to the first two wordsthat would have been a brave post :-)
Sounds as though your wife has a remarkable notion of how to get people to pay for their own giveaways. Would she be interested in a job in London, complete with grace and favour flat and country house, modest salary, rumoured to become vacant shortly? She would appear to be the ideal CotE!
Enjoy the coast. Some lovely bird reserves around there. Have a long walk and escape the election. I suspect it will be rather low-key where you are.0 -
ooooh mind bleachydoethur said:Incidentally either the Times or the Beeb have made a bit of a faux pas this morning.
Reporting on the SNP/Labour rumours, the BBC quotes the Times as saying Emily Thornberry, 'the Shadow Home Secretary', will set out the stall for a coalition later.
I refuse on principle to give money to the third-rate pseudo-American pornographer. Is someone with more elastic principles able to confirm if it's the Times that has made a muck of this (which would call the story as a whole into question) or Auntie?
Emily Thornberry gets her kit off for the Times0 -
But that's what happens already, down to a cap of £23,600 (without checking) in assets, including the family home if residential care is required, payable on demand. So this is a massive hike in the allowance, plus a deferment of payment. It's actually a generous policy.leslie48 said:Absolutely the reality of 'Can't pay ( dad's care bills) we'll take the property away' is frightening especially for those who had their children later in life or for those needing care earlier in their 70s. This potentially affects all house owners and affects many families full on.
Its also a lottery based on whether we ( baby boomers) or for younger readers parents get dementia compared to cancer, strokes, heart disease, disabilities which currently may demand no house sale. It goes to the heart of what type of society we are- most UK voters would prefer the Lib Dem approach pay a few more pennies on income tax for European style health and social care - pool the risk or at least get a balance - not indifferent right wing American public policy misery.
It's quite worrying how little understood this is. I had to explain it to my father when we were doing some financial planning and he's usually very shrewd about such things.
It's also quite shocking how badly this has been explained, allowing nuts like Caroline Lucas, of all people, to exploit it for partisan gain.0 -
Nailed-on Labour, surely ;-)MarqueeMark said:
Bummer of a birthday present.SouthamObserver said:
She is very good at spending other people's money!!! A place in the first Corbyn cabinet awaits. I got home from a couple of days working in London last night to find her and my daughter had put a Labour poster in our window!! We've been married 28 years. They have been truly wonderful. But that was a low blow.ydoethur said:
Happy birthday and here's to many more of them!SouthamObserver said:
I see you're in trolling mode this morning! I am 53 today and feeling old, so will not partake. Off to Aldeburgh for the weekend later. Looking forward to hearing and seeing the sea, and eating and drinking my fill. My wife has said it's my birthday present; but as I'm paying for it and driving us there I am not sure how that works!Alanbrooke said:
lolSouthamObserver said:
It was. So was the right. Deindustrialisation was handled appallingly in the UK (see squandering of North Sea oil money, for example). We continue to pay the price now - particularly outside London.Alanbrooke said:
tskSouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
I ask a simple question about coal and before you know it its the new world order
what if it was just the Left was wrong in 1985 ?
if you could just have kept that to the first two wordsthat would have been a brave post :-)
Sounds as though your wife has a remarkable notion of how to get people to pay for their own giveaways. Would she be interested in a job in London, complete with grace and favour flat and country house, modest salary, rumoured to become vacant shortly? She would appear to be the ideal CotE!
Enjoy the coast. Some lovely bird reserves around there. Have a long walk and escape the election. I suspect it will be rather low-key where you are.
Not been to that part of the world before. We usually go to Dorset or Devon. I expect it will be very different - a lot flatter and big skies.
0 -
It was the Beeb, the Times says shadow foreign secretary, or at least they do in the online version, it may have been wrong in the print edition of course.ydoethur said:Incidentally either the Times or the Beeb have made a bit of a faux pas this morning.
Reporting on the SNP/Labour rumours, the BBC quotes the Times as saying Emily Thornberry, 'the Shadow Home Secretary', will set out the stall for a coalition later.
I refuse on principle to give money to the third-rate pseudo-American pornographer. Is someone with more elastic principles able to confirm if it's the Times that has made a muck of this (which would call the story as a whole into question) or Auntie?0 -
How the hell did you get that from what I wrote?Alanbrooke said:
ooooh mind bleachydoethur said:Incidentally either the Times or the Beeb have made a bit of a faux pas this morning.
Reporting on the SNP/Labour rumours, the BBC quotes the Times as saying Emily Thornberry, 'the Shadow Home Secretary', will set out the stall for a coalition later.
I refuse on principle to give money to the third-rate pseudo-American pornographer. Is someone with more elastic principles able to confirm if it's the Times that has made a muck of this (which would call the story as a whole into question) or Auntie?
Emily Thornberry gets her kit off for the Times
Emily Thornberry undressing while talking about a Labour/SNP alliance would almost certainly lead to the best Liberal result since 1923.0 -
Exactly. When most people think of "care" they think of a care home, not someone popping round for half an hour a few times a week. Your home being liable to pay for residential care has been the way things are since 1948.ydoethur said:
But that's what happens already, down to a cap of £23,600 (without checking) in assets, including the family home if residential care is required, payable on demand. So this is a massive hike in the allowance, plus a deferment of payment. It's actually a generous policy.leslie48 said:Absolutely the reality of 'Can't pay ( dad's care bills) we'll take the property away' is frightening especially for those who had their children later in life or for those needing care earlier in their 70s. This potentially affects all house owners and affects many families full on.
Its also a lottery based on whether we ( baby boomers) or for younger readers parents get dementia compared to cancer, strokes, heart disease, disabilities which currently may demand no house sale. It goes to the heart of what type of society we are- most UK voters would prefer the Lib Dem approach pay a few more pennies on income tax for European style health and social care - pool the risk or at least get a balance - not indifferent right wing American public policy misery.
It's quite worrying how little understood this is. I had to explain it to my father when we were doing some financial planning and he's usually very shrewd about such things.
It's also quite shocking how badly this has been explained, allowing nuts like Caroline Lucas, of all people, to exploit it for partisan gain.
Bottom line is that the Tories should have prepared the ground for this change well in advance of the election, not least by making clear how severe the current £23k limit can be so that the move to £100k is then seen as a significant improvement.0 -
Thanks. Auntie screws up. Since even if the print edition was wrong (which doesn't seem likely in the circumstances) they should have corrected it themselves anyway if their journalists had a brain cell between them, I'll leave it like that.AndrewSpencer said:
It was the Beeb, the Times says shadow foreign secretary, or at least they do in the online version, it may have been wrong in the print edition of course.ydoethur said:Incidentally either the Times or the Beeb have made a bit of a faux pas this morning.
Reporting on the SNP/Labour rumours, the BBC quotes the Times as saying Emily Thornberry, 'the Shadow Home Secretary', will set out the stall for a coalition later.
I refuse on principle to give money to the third-rate pseudo-American pornographer. Is someone with more elastic principles able to confirm if it's the Times that has made a muck of this (which would call the story as a whole into question) or Auntie?
Have to say i think they've had a very unimpressive campaign as well one way and another. Sloppy, disorganised and complacent. Suggests that cuts are biting even as their administration seems to bloat further?0 -
Cheers - am looking forward to it a lot.JosiasJessop said:Happy birthday SO.
Enjoy Aldeburgh. A truly lovely part of the coast.
0 -
I knew you were trolling Jack Wydoethur said:
How the hell did you get that from what I wrote?Alanbrooke said:
ooooh mind bleachydoethur said:Incidentally either the Times or the Beeb have made a bit of a faux pas this morning.
Reporting on the SNP/Labour rumours, the BBC quotes the Times as saying Emily Thornberry, 'the Shadow Home Secretary', will set out the stall for a coalition later.
I refuse on principle to give money to the third-rate pseudo-American pornographer. Is someone with more elastic principles able to confirm if it's the Times that has made a muck of this (which would call the story as a whole into question) or Auntie?
Emily Thornberry gets her kit off for the Times
Emily Thornberry undressing while talking about a Labour/SNP alliance would almost certainly lead to the best Liberal result since 1923.
Emily Thornberry gets him excited0 -
Wish we still had the like button. Agree with every word.IanB2 said:Exactly. When most people think of "care" they think of a care home, not someone popping round for half an hour a few times a week. Your home being liable to pay for residential care has been the way things are since 1948.
Bottom line is that the Tories should have prepared the ground for this change well in advance of the election, not least by making clear how severe the current £23k limit can be so that the move to £100k is then seen as a significant improvement.0 -
It's all relative. If you've never been 53 before, it's old. I was 27 last week, I'm sure ;-)JackW said:
53 is old ............... Tsk .............SouthamObserver said:I see you're in trolling mode this morning! I am 53 today and feeling old, so will not partake. Off to Aldeburgh for the weekend later. Looking forward to hearing and seeing the sea, and eating and drinking my fill. My wife has said it's my birthday present; but as I'm paying for it and driving us there I am not sure how that works!
Happy Birthday Young Un .....
0 -
I could have sworn that I saw and referred on PB to a YouGov central figure for the Tories yesterday of 319 - but no matter, it's still woefully short of even the smallest figure of 326 required for an overall majority. Incredible to think that just four short weeks ago, all the discussion was as to whether their majority would be nearer 200 than 100 seats.AndrewSpencer said:Interesting to see that the mid point projection for the Tories in the daily YouGov model for The Times has inched up in the last two days. Was 310 on Wednesday, 311 yesterday and 317 this morning. No headline figures are given today but will be interesting to watch the direction of drift over the next few days.
Mrs May has certainly proved to be a bitter disappointment for those of us in the Blue Team. Even if the Tories narrowly win the election, I'll be surprised if she continues for more than 18 months as Prime Minister.0 -
I could have managed without that reply...Alanbrooke said:
I knew you were trolling Jack Wydoethur said:
How the hell did you get that from what I wrote?Alanbrooke said:
ooooh mind bleachydoethur said:Incidentally either the Times or the Beeb have made a bit of a faux pas this morning.
Reporting on the SNP/Labour rumours, the BBC quotes the Times as saying Emily Thornberry, 'the Shadow Home Secretary', will set out the stall for a coalition later.
I refuse on principle to give money to the third-rate pseudo-American pornographer. Is someone with more elastic principles able to confirm if it's the Times that has made a muck of this (which would call the story as a whole into question) or Auntie?
Emily Thornberry gets her kit off for the Times
Emily Thornberry undressing while talking about a Labour/SNP alliance would almost certainly lead to the best Liberal result since 1923.
Emily Thornberry gets him excited0 -
Shortly after the removal of the winter fuel allowance was first mooted John McDonnell appeared on radio saying 'To treat old people like this almost makes me cry' and I literally laughed out loud thinking what an old ham-no one's going to buy that!
Since then the Tories numbers have been spiraling.....the egocentricity of the old is something we had all underestimated.
Of significance today though is Trump's trashing of the climate change agenda. Theresa May has hitched her wagon to Trump's incontinent horse and this is going to make some people -particularly the educated young-very angry indeed and therefore more likely to take the trouble to vote0 -
My BiL lives that way - good fish and chips in Aldburgh, posh restaurants if you want to go up market, Lavenham is worth a visit if you have time and if your wife wants to spend money on stuff you dont want go to Snape Maltings.SouthamObserver said:
Nailed-on Labour, surely ;-)MarqueeMark said:
Bummer of a birthday present.SouthamObserver said:
She is very good at spending other people's money!!! A place in the first Corbyn cabinet awaits. I got home from a couple of days working in London last night to find her and my daughter had put a Labour poster in our window!! We've been married 28 years. They have been truly wonderful. But that was a low blow.ydoethur said:
Happy birthday and here's to many more of them!SouthamObserver said:
I see you're in trolling mode this morninthat works!Alanbrooke said:
lolSouthamObserver said:
It was. So was the right. Deindustrialisation was handled appallingly in the UK (see squandering of North Sea oil money, for example). We continue to pay the price now - particularly outside London.Alanbrooke said:
tskSouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
I ask a simple question about coal and before you know it its the new world order
what if it was just the Left was wrong in 1985 ?
if you could just have kept that to the first two wordsthat would have been a brave post :-)
Sounds as though your wife has a remarkad to become vacant shortly? She would appear to be the ideal CotE!
Enjoy the coast. Some lovely bird reserves around there. Have a long walk and escape the election. I suspect it will be rather low-key where you are.
Not been to that part of the world before. We usually go to Dorset or Devon. I expect it will be very different - a lot flatter and big skies.0 -
Democracy is overrated. Just look at the trouble it causes. Benign patriarchy, that's the way to go (counting on my better half not reading this).SouthamObserver said:
Cheers! We have discussed, but our house is a democracy. The will of the people must be respected, even if it stinks :-)DavidL said:
Dear oh dear. Do they not read your contributions to PB?SouthamObserver said:
She is very good at spending other people's money!!! A place in the first Corbyn cabinet awaits. I got home from a couple of days working in London last night to find her and my daughter had put a Labour poster in our window!! We've been married 28 years. They have been truly wonderful. But that was a low blow.ydoethur said:
Happy birthday and here's to many more of them!SouthamObserver said:
I see you're in trolling mode this morning! I am 53 today and feeling old, so will not partake. Off to Aldeburgh for the weekend later. Looking forward to hearing and seeing the sea, and eating and drinking my fill. My wife has said it's my birthday present; but as I'm paying for it and driving us there I am not sure how that works!Alanbrooke said:
lolSouthamObserver said:
It was. So was the right. Deindustrialisation was handled appallingly in the UK (see squandering of North Sea oil money, for example). We continue to pay the price now - particularly outside London.Alanbrooke said:
tskSouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
I ask a simple question about coal and before you know it its the new world order
what if it was just the Left was wrong in 1985 ?
if you could just have kept that to the first two wordsthat would have been a brave post :-)
Sounds as though your wife has a remarkable notion of how to get people to pay for their own giveaways. Would she be interested in a job in London, complete with grace and favour flat and country house, modest salary, rumoured to become vacant shortly? She would appear to be the ideal CotE!
Many happy returns of the day.0 -
There was a lot of caveating going on during Wednesday, would be interesting to know the internal dynamics within YouGov as to how far everyone is on board with the experiment. They have a very uneven record as a company with some big wins and some very conspicuous misses.MarqueeMark said:
I think they may have accepted that some of their assessments were "brave"..... It will soon inch up to the point where the Tories have a majority and the whole damned exercise - of trying to find a way to make this election look kinda close - will have ceased.AndrewSpencer said:Interesting to see that the mid point projection for the Tories in the daily YouGov model for The Times has inched up in the last two days. Was 310 on Wednesday, 311 yesterday and 317 this morning. No headline figures are given today but will be interesting to watch the direction of drift over the next few days.
Hopefully that will then be the end of this little experiment with polling-as-entertainment.
0 -
Hi, Tim - welcome to PB(!)leslie48 said:Absolutely the reality of 'Can't pay ( dad's care bills) we'll take the property away' is frightening especially for those who had their children later in life or for those needing care earlier in their 70s. This potentially affects all house owners and affects many families full on.
Its also a lottery based on whether we ( baby boomers) or for younger readers parents get dementia compared to cancer, strokes, heart disease, disabilities which currently may demand no house sale. It goes to the heart of what type of society we are- most UK voters would prefer the Lib Dem approach pay a few more pennies on income tax for European style health and social care - pool the risk or at least get a balance - not indifferent right wing American public policy misery.0 -
Happy birthday!SouthamObserver said:
I see you're in trolling mode this morning! I am 53 today and feeling old, so will not partake. Off to Aldeburgh for the weekend later. Looking forward to hearing and seeing the sea, and eating and drinking my fill. My wife has said it's my birthday present; but as I'm paying for it and driving us there I am not sure how that works!Alanbrooke said:
lolSouthamObserver said:
It was. So was the right. Deindustrialisation was handled appallingly in the UK (see squandering of North Sea oil money, for example). We continue to pay the price now - particularly outside London.Alanbrooke said:
tskSouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
I ask a simple question about coal and before you know it its the new world order
what if it was just the Left was wrong in 1985 ?
if you could just have kept that to the first two wordsthat would have been a brave post :-)
Get off the internet and enjoy it ;-)0 -
Is that what the real Shadow Home Secretary told you?SouthamObserver said:
It's all relative. If you've never been 53 before, it's old. I was 27 last week, I'm sure ;-)JackW said:
53 is old ............... Tsk .............SouthamObserver said:I see you're in trolling mode this morning! I am 53 today and feeling old, so will not partake. Off to Aldeburgh for the weekend later. Looking forward to hearing and seeing the sea, and eating and drinking my fill. My wife has said it's my birthday present; but as I'm paying for it and driving us there I am not sure how that works!
Happy Birthday Young Un .....0 -
we have a not so benign matriarchy chez Brooke :-)DavidL said:
Democracy is overrated. Just look at the trouble it causes. Benign patriarchy, that's the way to go (counting on my better half not reading this).SouthamObserver said:
Cheers! We have discussed, but our house is a democracy. The will of the people must be respected, even if it stinks :-)DavidL said:
Dear oh dear. Do they not read your contributions to PB?SouthamObserver said:
She is very good at spending other peow blow.ydoethur said:
Happy birthday and here's to many more of them!SouthamObserver said:
I see you're in trolling mode this morning! I am 53 today and feeling old, so will not partake. Off to Aldeburgh for the weekend later. Looking forward to hearing and seeing the sea, and eating and drinking my fill. My wife has said it's my birthday present; but as I'm paying for it and driving us there I am not sure how that works!Alanbrooke said:
lolSouthamObserver said:
It was. So was the right. Deindustrialisation was handled appallingly in the UK (see squandering of North Sea oil money, for example). We continue to pay the price now - particularly outside London.Alanbrooke said:
tskSouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
I ask a simple question about coal and before you know it its the new world order
what if it was just the Left was wrong in 1985 ?
if you could just have kept that to the first two wordsthat would have been a brave post :-)
ecome vacant shortly? She would appear to be the ideal CotE!
Many happy returns of the day.
0 -
There are a huge amount of people in the country who struggle to make their pay last to the end of the month. People with no prospect of owning a house or inheriting a house, people for whom a few more pence on income tax would make their lives even harder. Sure they would happily spend 40 years of working life struggling harder so the haves could pass on the house to Tristan and Jemimaleslie48 said:Absolutely the reality of 'Can't pay ( dad's care bills) we'll take the property away' is frightening especially for those who had their children later in life or for those needing care earlier in their 70s. This potentially affects all house owners and affects many families full on.
Its also a lottery based on whether we ( baby boomers) or for younger readers parents get dementia compared to cancer, strokes, heart disease, disabilities which currently may demand no house sale. It goes to the heart of what type of society we are- most UK voters would prefer the Lib Dem approach pay a few more pennies on income tax for European style health and social care - pool the risk or at least get a balance - not indifferent right wing American public policy misery.
0 -
Yep.IanB2 said:
Exactly. When most people think of "care" they think of a care home, not someone popping round for half an hour a few times a week. Your home being liable to pay for residential care has been the way things are since 1948.ydoethur said:
But that's what happens already, down to a cap of £23,600 (without checking) in assets, including the family home if residential care is required, payable on demand. So this is a massive hike in the allowance, plus a deferment of payment. It's actually a generous policy.leslie48 said:Absolutely the reality of 'Can't pay ( dad's care bills) we'll take the property away' is frightening especially for those who had their children later in life or for those needing care earlier in their 70s. This potentially affects all house owners and affects many families full on.
Its also a lottery based on whether we ( baby boomers) or for younger readers parents get dementia compared to cancer, strokes, heart disease, disabilities which currently may demand no house sale. It goes to the heart of what type of society we are- most UK voters would prefer the Lib Dem approach pay a few more pennies on income tax for European style health and social care - pool the risk or at least get a balance - not indifferent right wing American public policy misery.
It's quite worrying how little understood this is. I had to explain it to my father when we were doing some financial planning and he's usually very shrewd about such things.
It's also quite shocking how badly this has been explained, allowing nuts like Caroline Lucas, of all people, to exploit it for partisan gain.
Bottom line is that the Tories should have prepared the ground for this change well in advance of the election, not least by making clear how severe the current £23k limit can be so that the move to £100k is then seen as a significant improvement.0 -
How many of the other parties (Lab, LibDem, SNP) are actually proposing changes re: residential care?ydoethur said:
Wish we still had the like button. Agree with every word.IanB2 said:Exactly. When most people think of "care" they think of a care home, not someone popping round for half an hour a few times a week. Your home being liable to pay for residential care has been the way things are since 1948.
Bottom line is that the Tories should have prepared the ground for this change well in advance of the election, not least by making clear how severe the current £23k limit can be so that the move to £100k is then seen as a significant improvement.0 -
We have large areas of delegation. And discretion. And initiative. Actually, its not that different.Alanbrooke said:
we have a not so benign matriarchy chez Brooke :-)DavidL said:
Democracy is overrated. Just look at the trouble it causes. Benign patriarchy, that's the way to go (counting on my better half not reading this).SouthamObserver said:
Cheers! We have discussed, but our house is a democracy. The will of the people must be respected, even if it stinks :-)DavidL said:
Dear oh dear. Do they not read your contributions to PB?SouthamObserver said:
She is very good at spending other peow blow.ydoethur said:
Happy birthday and here's to many more of them!SouthamObserver said:
I see you're in trolling mode this morning! I am 53 today and feeling old, so will not partake. Off to Aldeburgh for the weekend later. Looking forward to hearing and seeing the sea, and eating and drinking my fill. My wife has said it's my birthday present; but as I'm paying for it and driving us there I am not sure how that works!Alanbrooke said:
lolSouthamObserver said:
It was. So was the right. Deindustrialisation was handled appallingly in the UK (see squandering of North Sea oil money, for example). We continue to pay the price now - particularly outside London.Alanbrooke said:
tskSouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
I ask a simple question about coal and before you know it its the new world order
what if it was just the Left was wrong in 1985 ?
if you could just have kept that to the first two wordsthat would have been a brave post :-)
ecome vacant shortly? She would appear to be the ideal CotE!
Many happy returns of the day.
My wife did suggest we put Tory, Labour and Lib Dem posters up in the window in the hope that the SNP get the message. On that we are as one.0 -
She will continue in office until at least 1st April 2019.peter_from_putney said:
I could have sworn that I saw and referred on PB to a YouGov central figure for the Tories yesterday of 319 - but no matter, it's still woefully short of even the smallest figure of 326 required for an overall majority. Incredible to think that just four short weeks ago, all the discussion was as to whether their majority would be nearer 200 than 100 seats.AndrewSpencer said:Interesting to see that the mid point projection for the Tories in the daily YouGov model for The Times has inched up in the last two days. Was 310 on Wednesday, 311 yesterday and 317 this morning. No headline figures are given today but will be interesting to watch the direction of drift over the next few days.
Mrs May has certainly proved to be a bitter disappointment for those of us in the Blue Team. Even if the Tories narrowly win the election, I'll be surprised if she continues for more than 18 months as Prime Minister.
Unless she botched the negotiations so badly that Cabinet ministers resign, and then that triggers letters to the '22.
She obviously couldn't survive Davis quitting on her if he did so publicly, on Brexit grounds.0 -
Noleslie48 said:Absolutely the reality of 'Can't pay ( dad's care bills) we'll take the property away' is frightening especially for those who had their children later in life or for those needing care earlier in their 70s. This potentially affects all house owners and affects many families full on.
Its also a lottery based on whether we ( baby boomers) or for younger readers parents get dementia compared to cancer, strokes, heart disease, disabilities which currently may demand no house sale. It goes to the heart of what type of society we are- most UK voters would prefer the Lib Dem approach pay a few more pennies on income tax for European style health and social care - pool the risk or at least get a balance - not indifferent right wing American public policy misery.
0 -
Quite. The dementia tax threatens to be the most effective wealth tax we have ever had. So, of course, Labour is against it. Inherited wealth must be protected apparently.Pagan said:
There are a huge amount of people in the country who struggle to make their pay last to the end of the month. People with no prospect of owning a house or inheriting a house, people for whom a few more pence on income tax would make their lives even harder. Sure they would happily spend 40 years of working life struggling harder so the haves could pass on the house to Tristan and Jemimaleslie48 said:Absolutely the reality of 'Can't pay ( dad's care bills) we'll take the property away' is frightening especially for those who had their children later in life or for those needing care earlier in their 70s. This potentially affects all house owners and affects many families full on.
Its also a lottery based on whether we ( baby boomers) or for younger readers parents get dementia compared to cancer, strokes, heart disease, disabilities which currently may demand no house sale. It goes to the heart of what type of society we are- most UK voters would prefer the Lib Dem approach pay a few more pennies on income tax for European style health and social care - pool the risk or at least get a balance - not indifferent right wing American public policy misery.0 -
Also when you hear people saying that these days the main barrier to home ownership is the securing of a deposit and getting on the ladder. Once you actually achieve that, mortgage costs are often significantly cheaper than rental costs. So take with a pinch of salt when people argue that it is "unfair" that those who have worked hard, saved hard, and prudently planned for the future should have to pay whereas the "feckless" who have pissed it all away should get the same thing for free.Pagan said:
There are a huge amount of people in the country who struggle to make their pay last to the end of the month. People with no prospect of owning a house or inheriting a house, people for whom a few more pence on income tax would make their lives even harder. Sure they would happily spend 40 years of working life struggling harder so the haves could pass on the house to Tristan and Jemimaleslie48 said:Absolutely the reality of 'Can't pay ( dad's care bills) we'll take the property away' is frightening especially for those who had their children later in life or for those needing care earlier in their 70s. This potentially affects all house owners and affects many families full on.
Its also a lottery based on whether we ( baby boomers) or for younger readers parents get dementia compared to cancer, strokes, heart disease, disabilities which currently may demand no house sale. It goes to the heart of what type of society we are- most UK voters would prefer the Lib Dem approach pay a few more pennies on income tax for European style health and social care - pool the risk or at least get a balance - not indifferent right wing American public policy misery.0 -
But shouldn't you see the new policy as relative to the Cameron policy (due to start in 2020)?IanB2 said:
Exactly. When most people think of "care" they think of a care home, not someone popping round for half an hour a few times a week. Your home being liable to pay for residential care has been the way things are since 1948.
Bottom line is that the Tories should have prepared the ground for this change well in advance of the election, not least by making clear how severe the current £23k limit can be so that the move to £100k is then seen as a significant improvement.
Which had a cap of 72k?0 -
I still think Labour running to the defence of millionaires keeping their WFA is the most bizarre thing that has happened in this election. How the hell do they defend that on the doorsteps of council estates/social housing?DavidL said:
Quite. The dementia tax threatens to be the most effective wealth tax we have ever had. So, of course, Labour is against it. Inherited wealth must be protected apparently.Pagan said:
There are a huge amount of people in the country who struggle to make their pay last to the end of the month. People with no prospect of owning a house or inheriting a house, people for whom a few more pence on income tax would make their lives even harder. Sure they would happily spend 40 years of working life struggling harder so the haves could pass on the house to Tristan and Jemimaleslie48 said:Absolutely the reality of 'Can't pay ( dad's care bills) we'll take the property away' is frightening especially for those who had their children later in life or for those needing care earlier in their 70s. This potentially affects all house owners and affects many families full on.
Its also a lottery based on whether we ( baby boomers) or for younger readers parents get dementia compared to cancer, strokes, heart disease, disabilities which currently may demand no house sale. It goes to the heart of what type of society we are- most UK voters would prefer the Lib Dem approach pay a few more pennies on income tax for European style health and social care - pool the risk or at least get a balance - not indifferent right wing American public policy misery.0 -
I was pretty sure I read 311 in The Times yesterday but happy to be corrected. 317 is not far off a majority and YouGov are easily the most bearish on Tory prospects. I think that we all need to wait and see before jumping to judgements about the effectiveness of May and the Tory campaign. No Tory who has lived through the 1990s and 2000s should be too sniffy at a Tory PM who breaches 40 points in a GE. There's a good chance that May will win nearly as many votes as any PM in history.peter_from_putney said:
I could have sworn that I saw and referred on PB to a YouGov central figure for the Tories yesterday of 319 - but no matter, it's still woefully short of even the smallest figure of 326 required for an overall majority. Incredible to think that just four short weeks ago, all the discussion was as to whether their majority would be nearer 200 than 100 seats.AndrewSpencer said:Interesting to see that the mid point projection for the Tories in the daily YouGov model for The Times has inched up in the last two days. Was 310 on Wednesday, 311 yesterday and 317 this morning. No headline figures are given today but will be interesting to watch the direction of drift over the next few days.
Mrs May has certainly proved to be a bitter disappointment for those of us in the Blue Team. Even if the Tories narrowly win the election, I'll be surprised if she continues for more than 18 months as Prime Minister.
Certainly if she ends with a small majority then she'll be vulnerable but any Tory plotters would, I think, wait for Brexit to be done before moving for May, let her do the dirty stuff and then time their run for the following GE, starting from a low point in the polls and moving up from there.0 -
Many people assumed that she had lined up Boris as the fall guy, but will she now be too weak to fire him?Casino_Royale said:She obviously couldn't survive Davis quitting on her if he did so publicly, on Brexit grounds.
0 -
O/T - Serious question to those (like SO) who are so vehement in criticism of the "No deal is better than a bad deal" line of the Government. Taking at face value their claims that they accept that Brexit will happen, what do they actually think the Government should publicise as their minimum red lines.
Hypothetical it may be, but how would they actually react if the EU, say, stated that they will refuse to negotiate any trade deal unless the UK promised £50billion annual payment in return. And that's without even seeing how worthwhile the trade deal would be?
If you don't accept "no deal" as an option, then what is the point of negotiating? And what is the alternative to any fait d'accompli presented by the EU?0 -
If by pissed away you meant struggled to pay rent and food and travel and not actually got enough left over to save no matter how frugally they live. Simple fact is most people in this country under 40 are never going to be able to save enough no matter how much they pare there costs to get a mortgage.alex. said:
Also when you hear people saying that these days the main barrier to home ownership is the securing of a deposit and getting on the ladder. Once you actually achieve that, mortgage costs are often significantly cheaper than rental costs. So take with a pinch of salt when people argue that it is "unfair" that those who have worked hard, saved hard, and prudently planned for the future should have to pay whereas the "feckless" who have pissed it all away should get the same thing for free.Pagan said:
There are a huge amount of people in the country who struggle to make their pay last to the end of the month. People with no prospect of owning a house or inheriting a house, people for whom a few more pence on income tax would make their lives even harder. Sure they would happily spend 40 years of working life struggling harder so the haves could pass on the house to Tristan and Jemimaleslie48 said:Absolutely the reality of 'Can't pay ( dad's care bills) we'll take the property away' is frightening especially for those who had their children later in life or for those needing care earlier in their 70s. This potentially affects all house owners and affects many families full on.
Its also a lottery based on whether we ( baby boomers) or for younger readers parents get dementia compared to cancer, strokes, heart disease, disabilities which currently may demand no house sale. It goes to the heart of what type of society we are- most UK voters would prefer the Lib Dem approach pay a few more pennies on income tax for European style health and social care - pool the risk or at least get a balance - not indifferent right wing American public policy misery.0 -
Simon Hughes on SKY News saying hes out on the doorstep every day and the Lib Dems will win seats from Labour and the Conservatives BUT says Conservatives will win0
-
Was it not obvious that that was precisely what I meant? I should have put "pissed away" in quote marks.Pagan said:
If by pissed away you meant struggled to pay rent and food and travel and not actually got enough left over to save no matter how frugally they live. Simple fact is most people in this country under 40 are never going to be able to save enough no matter how much they pare there costs to get a mortgage.alex. said:
Also when you hear people saying that these days the main barrier to home ownership is the securing of a deposit and getting on the ladder. Once you actually achieve that, mortgage costs are often significantly cheaper than rental costs. So take with a pinch of salt when people argue that it is "unfair" that those who have worked hard, saved hard, and prudently planned for the future should have to pay whereas the "feckless" who have pissed it all away should get the same thing for free.Pagan said:
There are a huge amount of people in the country who struggle to make their pay last to the end of the month. People with no prospect of owning a house or inheriting a house, people for whom a few more pence on income tax would make their lives even harder. Sure they would happily spend 40 years of working life struggling harder so the haves could pass on the house to Tristan and Jemimaleslie48 said:Absolutely the reality of 'Can't pay ( dad's care bills) we'll take the property away' is frightening especially for those who had their children later in life or for those needing care earlier in their 70s. This potentially affects all house owners and affects many families full on.
Its also a lottery based on whether we ( baby boomers) or for younger readers parents get dementia compared to cancer, strokes, heart disease, disabilities which currently may demand no house sale. It goes to the heart of what type of society we are- most UK voters would prefer the Lib Dem approach pay a few more pennies on income tax for European style health and social care - pool the risk or at least get a balance - not indifferent right wing American public policy misery.0 -
Don't knock me and the missus off our bikes if you see us riding to Orford tomorrow!SouthamObserver said:
I see you're in trolling mode this morning! I am 53 today and feeling old, so will not partake. Off to Aldeburgh for the weekend later. Looking forward to hearing and seeing the sea, and eating and drinking my fill. My wife has said it's my birthday present; but as I'm paying for it and driving us there I am not sure how that works!Alanbrooke said:
lolSouthamObserver said:
It was. So was the right. Deindustrialisation was handled appallingly in the UK (see squandering of North Sea oil money, for example). We continue to pay the price now - particularly outside London.Alanbrooke said:
tskSouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
I ask a simple question about coal and before you know it its the new world order
what if it was just the Left was wrong in 1985 ?
if you could just have kept that to the first two wordsthat would have been a brave post :-)0 -
Sorry it didnt come across. A lot on pb com are among the higher level earners and sometimes fail to appreciate quite how little 80% of the country earnsalex. said:
Was it not obvious that that was precisely what I meant? I should have put "pissed away" in quote marks.Pagan said:
If by pissed away you meant struggled to pay rent and food and travel and not actually got enough left over to save no matter how frugally they live. Simple fact is most people in this country under 40 are never going to be able to save enough no matter how much they pare there costs to get a mortgage.alex. said:
Also when you hear people saying that these days the main barrier to home ownership is the securing of a deposit and getting on the ladder. Once you actually achieve that, mortgage costs are often significantly cheaper than rental costs. So take with a pinch of salt when people argue that it is "unfair" that those who have worked hard, saved hard, and prudently planned for the future should have to pay whereas the "feckless" who have pissed it all away should get the same thing for free.Pagan said:
There are a huge amount of people in the country who struggle to make their pay last to the end of the month. People with no prospect of owning a house or inheriting a house, people for whom a few more pence on income tax would make their lives even harder. Sure they would happily spend 40 years of working life struggling harder so the haves could pass on the house to Tristan and Jemimaleslie48 said:Absolutely the reality of 'Can't pay ( dad's care bills) we'll take the property away' is frightening especially for those who had their children later in life or for those needing care earlier in their 70s. This potentially affects all house owners and affects many families full on.
Its also a lottery based on whether we ( baby boomers) or for younger readers parents get dementia compared to cancer, strokes, heart disease, disabilities which currently may demand no house sale. It goes to the heart of what type of society we are- most UK voters would prefer the Lib Dem approach pay a few more pennies on income tax for European style health and social care - pool the risk or at least get a balance - not indifferent right wing American public policy misery. 0 -
MRDA.marke09 said:Simon Hughes on SKY News saying hes out on the doorstep every day and the Lib Dems will win seats from Labour and the Conservatives
0 -
Combined with utter confusion about the freezing of benefits. So keeping a universal WFA is a more important use of resources than reversing "the evil tory cuts". Its really bizarre.MarqueeMark said:
I still think Labour running to the defence of millionaires keeping their WFA is the most bizarre thing that has happened in this election. How the hell do they defend that on the doorsteps of council estates/social housing?DavidL said:
Quite. The dementia tax threatens to be the most effective wealth tax we have ever had. So, of course, Labour is against it. Inherited wealth must be protected apparently.Pagan said:
There are a huge amount of people in the country who struggle to make their pay last to the end of the month. People with no prospect of owning a house or inheriting a house, people for whom a few more pence on income tax would make their lives even harder. Sure they would happily spend 40 years of working life struggling harder so the haves could pass on the house to Tristan and Jemimaleslie48 said:Absolutely the reality of 'Can't pay ( dad's care bills) we'll take the property away' is frightening especially for those who had their children later in life or for those needing care earlier in their 70s. This potentially affects all house owners and affects many families full on.
Its also a lottery based on whether we ( baby boomers) or for younger readers parents get dementia compared to cancer, strokes, heart disease, disabilities which currently may demand no house sale. It goes to the heart of what type of society we are- most UK voters would prefer the Lib Dem approach pay a few more pennies on income tax for European style health and social care - pool the risk or at least get a balance - not indifferent right wing American public policy misery.
Oh and £9bn a year for largely middle class students who are going to earn significantly more in the future as well. Of course those in the gig economy should be paying taxes to fund that as well. Labour seem to really have it in for what was their core support.0 -
It is carpet-haggling 1.01. The guy in the carpet bazaar has to believe you will walk away. Or you get to the point Cameron ended up - where he walked in and said "My man, I am DESPERATE to buy a carpet and I have this much to spend...." - and is then surprised when the guy goes out back and returns with a flea-ridden rug. Which he still ends up proudly displaying on his floor as this great "steal of a deal" he did down the souk....alex. said:O/T - Serious question to those (like SO) who are so vehement in criticism of the "No deal is better than a bad deal" line of the Government. Taking at face value their claims that they accept that Brexit will happen, what do they actually think the Government should publicise as their minimum red lines.
Hypothetical it may be, but how would they actually react if the EU, say, stated that they will refuse to negotiate any trade deal unless the UK promised £50billion annual payment in return. And that's without even seeing how worthwhile the trade deal would be?
If you don't accept "no deal" as an option, then what is the point of negotiating? And what is the alternative to any fait d'accompli presented by the EU?
Carpet-haggling 1.01. They have to believe you will walk out without a carpet. Corbyn has already said he will buy a carpet, regardless. The man is a fool.0 -
Does she know her next birthday present is membership of Labour Friends of Israel?SouthamObserver said:
She is very good at spending other people's money!!! A place in the first Corbyn cabinet awaits. I got home from a couple of days working in London last night to find her and my daughter had put a Labour poster in our window!! We've been married 28 years. They have been truly wonderful. But that was a low blow.ydoethur said:
Happy birthday and here's to many more of them!SouthamObserver said:
I see you're in trolling mode this morning! I am 53 today and feeling old, so will not partake. Off to Aldeburgh for the weekend later. Looking forward to hearing and seeing the sea, and eating and drinking my fill. My wife has said it's my birthday present; but as I'm paying for it and driving us there I am not sure how that works!Alanbrooke said:
lolSouthamObserver said:
It was. So was the right. Deindustrialisation was handled appallingly in the UK (see squandering of North Sea oil money, for example). We continue to pay the price now - particularly outside London.Alanbrooke said:
tskSouthamObserver said:
Not just the left. In practice, Trump's decision will change nothing and cost more US jobs than it saves as cleantech investors and businesses look elsewhere. Geopolitically it marks the moment that the US gave up on global leadership, clearing the path for others to take over. Mrs May has thrown the UK's lot in with a loser, all in the hope of a trade deal she's not going to get.Alanbrooke said:Coal not Dole - Donald Trump
Why are all the lefties so upset ?
I ask a simple question about coal and before you know it its the new world order
what if it was just the Left was wrong in 1985 ?
if you could just have kept that to the first two wordsthat would have been a brave post :-)
Sounds as though your wife has a remarkable notion of how to get people to pay for their own giveaways. Would she be interested in a job in London, complete with grace and favour flat and country house, modest salary, rumoured to become vacant shortly? She would appear to be the ideal CotE!0 -
He's hardly going to say it's a straight choice between May and Corbyn, is he?ThreeQuidder said:
MRDA.marke09 said:Simon Hughes on SKY News saying hes out on the doorstep every day and the Lib Dems will win seats from Labour and the Conservatives
0 -
Unduly pessimistic about Tessy's prospects?RobD said:So maybe it is something in the last week of May that caused this?
0 -
I turn 30 this summer, that feels old.SouthamObserver said:
It's all relative. If you've never been 53 before, it's old. I was 27 last week, I'm sure ;-)JackW said:
53 is old ............... Tsk .............SouthamObserver said:I see you're in trolling mode this morning! I am 53 today and feeling old, so will not partake. Off to Aldeburgh for the weekend later. Looking forward to hearing and seeing the sea, and eating and drinking my fill. My wife has said it's my birthday present; but as I'm paying for it and driving us there I am not sure how that works!
Happy Birthday Young Un .....
Happy birthday! Have a good one.0 -
Difference is, in this situation the carpet seller knows walking away will also cost you dearly.MarqueeMark said:
It is carpet-haggling 1.01. The guy in the carpet bazaar has to believe you will walk away. Or you get to the point Cameron ended up - where he walked in and said "My man, I am DESPERATE to buy a carpet and I have this much to spend...." - and is then surprised when the guy goes out back and returns with a flea-ridden rug. Which he still ends up proudly displaying on his floor as this great "steal of a deal" he did down the souk....alex. said:O/T - Serious question to those (like SO) who are so vehement in criticism of the "No deal is better than a bad deal" line of the Government. Taking at face value their claims that they accept that Brexit will happen, what do they actually think the Government should publicise as their minimum red lines.
Hypothetical it may be, but how would they actually react if the EU, say, stated that they will refuse to negotiate any trade deal unless the UK promised £50billion annual payment in return. And that's without even seeing how worthwhile the trade deal would be?
If you don't accept "no deal" as an option, then what is the point of negotiating? And what is the alternative to any fait d'accompli presented by the EU?
Carpet-haggling 1.01. They have to believe you will walk out without a carpet. Corbyn has already said he will buy a carpet, regardless. The man is a fool.
It really isn't hard.0 -
not a good turn of phrasewilliamglenn said:
He's hardly going to say it's a straight choice between May and Corbyn, is he?ThreeQuidder said:
MRDA.marke09 said:Simon Hughes on SKY News saying hes out on the doorstep every day and the Lib Dems will win seats from Labour and the Conservatives
Simon Hughes has previous on it0 -
Labour will probably secure an extremely good deal, with particular protections for the city, because the EU will expect all the big financial companies to leave the UK regardless afterMarqueeMark said:
It is carpet-haggling 1.01. The guy in the carpet bazaar has to believe you will walk away. Or you get to the point Cameron ended up - where he walked in and said "My man, I am DESPERATE to buy a carpet and I have this much to spend...." - and is then surprised when the guy goes out back and returns with a flea-ridden rug. Which he still ends up proudly displaying on his floor as this great "steal of a deal" he did down the souk....alex. said:O/T - Serious question to those (like SO) who are so vehement in criticism of the "No deal is better than a bad deal" line of the Government. Taking at face value their claims that they accept that Brexit will happen, what do they actually think the Government should publicise as their minimum red lines.
Hypothetical it may be, but how would they actually react if the EU, say, stated that they will refuse to negotiate any trade deal unless the UK promised £50billion annual payment in return. And that's without even seeing how worthwhile the trade deal would be?
If you don't accept "no deal" as an option, then what is the point of negotiating? And what is the alternative to any fait d'accompli presented by the EU?
Carpet-haggling 1.01. They have to believe you will walk out without a carpet. Corbyn has already said he will buy a carpet, regardless. The man is a fool.
1) Financial Transaction tax
2) Levy on all salaries over (?)£300k
3) No Government contracts for anyone without the approved top/bottom pay multiples
4) Large increases in corporation tax
5) Large rises in tax for higher earners
What's the point in the City lobbying a Corbyn Government?
0 -
Let's face it, the whole thing was made up by Labour as they went along. No coherence whatsoever. The REAL level of failure of the Tory campaign was never to get that nailed. Now, I can accept there might be an argument that you are giving it an undeserved credibility by even talking about it. But it is a huge failure.DavidL said:
Combined with utter confusion about the freezing of benefits. So keeping a universal WFA is a more important use of resources than reversing "the evil tory cuts". Its really bizarre.MarqueeMark said:
I still think Labour running to the defence of millionaires keeping their WFA is the most bizarre thing that has happened in this election. How the hell do they defend that on the doorsteps of council estates/social housing?DavidL said:
Quite. The dementia tax threatens to be the most effective wealth tax we have ever had. So, of course, Labour is against it. Inherited wealth must be protected apparently.Pagan said:
There are a huge amount of people in the country who struggle to make their pay last to the end of the month. People with no prospect of owning a house or inheriting a house, people for whom a few more pence on income tax would make their lives even harder. Sure they would happily spend 40 years of working life struggling harder so the haves could pass on the house to Tristan and Jemimaleslie48 said:Absolutely the reality of 'Can't pay ( dad's care bills) we'll take the property away' is frightening especially for those who had their children later in life or for those needing care earlier in their 70s. This potentially affects all house owners and affects many families full on.
Its also a lottery based on whether we ( baby boomers) or for younger readers parents get dementia compared to cancer, strokes, heart disease, disabilities which currently may demand no house sale. It goes to the heart of what type of society we are- most UK voters would prefer the Lib Dem approach pay a few more pennies on income tax for European style health and social care - pool the risk or at least get a balance - not indifferent right wing American public policy misery.
Oh and £9bn a year for largely middle class students who are going to earn significantly more in the future as well. Of course those in the gig economy should be paying taxes to fund that as well. Labour seem to really have it in for what was their core support.
Where is Hammond - he should be nailing every line of their manifesto as a fiasco that will result in vast tax hikes for Joe and Joanna Average. Anyone would think he is off sulking because he expects to lose his job...0 -
They don't have to because the Tories bungled it by saying it would stay in Scotland.MarqueeMark said:
I still think Labour running to the defence of millionaires keeping their WFA is the most bizarre thing that has happened in this election. How the hell do they defend that on the doorsteps of council estates/social housing?DavidL said:
Quite. The dementia tax threatens to be the most effective wealth tax we have ever had. So, of course, Labour is against it. Inherited wealth must be protected apparently.Pagan said:
There are a huge amount of people in the country who struggle to make their pay last to the end of the month. People with no prospect of owning a house or inheriting a house, people for whom a few more pence on income tax would make their lives even harder. Sure they would happily spend 40 years of working life struggling harder so the haves could pass on the house to Tristan and Jemimaleslie48 said:Absolutely the reality of 'Can't pay ( dad's care bills) we'll take the property away' is frightening especially for those who had their children later in life or for those needing care earlier in their 70s. This potentially affects all house owners and affects many families full on.
Its also a lottery based on whether we ( baby boomers) or for younger readers parents get dementia compared to cancer, strokes, heart disease, disabilities which currently may demand no house sale. It goes to the heart of what type of society we are- most UK voters would prefer the Lib Dem approach pay a few more pennies on income tax for European style health and social care - pool the risk or at least get a balance - not indifferent right wing American public policy misery.
This is Hillary 16 levels of shit. Worst campaign I've ever seen by the Tory party.0 -
Good morning, everyone.
Happy birthday, Mr. Observer. You're a similar age to Caesar whilst still contending the civil war. I hope you have a better life expectancy, though.
On-topic: a clear decline in support, but the advantage remains massive. If May gets a 40 point lead over Labour in the demographic that votes the most, hard to see her losing, isn't it?0 -
30 was a tough one. I was quite unhappy about it. Felt far too grown up. Thankfully, I have got a lot more relaxed about birthdays over the last 25 years.MaxPB said:
I turn 30 this summer, that feels old.SouthamObserver said:
It's all relative. If you've never been 53 before, it's old. I was 27 last week, I'm sure ;-)JackW said:
53 is old ............... Tsk .............SouthamObserver said:I see you're in trolling mode this morning! I am 53 today and feeling old, so will not partake. Off to Aldeburgh for the weekend later. Looking forward to hearing and seeing the sea, and eating and drinking my fill. My wife has said it's my birthday present; but as I'm paying for it and driving us there I am not sure how that works!
Happy Birthday Young Un .....
Happy birthday! Have a good one.0 -
Serendipitously Ruthy is currently justifying (not very well) to Nick Robinson the retention of the WFA in ScotlandDavidL said:
Combined with utter confusion about the freezing of benefits. So keeping a universal WFA is a more important use of resources than reversing "the evil tory cuts". Its really bizarre.MarqueeMark said:
I still think Labour running to the defence of millionaires keeping their WFA is the most bizarre thing that has happened in this election. How the hell do they defend that on the doorsteps of council estates/social housing?DavidL said:
Quite. The dementia tax threatens to be the most effective wealth tax we have ever had. So, of course, Labour is against it. Inherited wealth must be protected apparently.Pagan said:
There are a huge amount of people in the country who struggle to make their pay last to the end of the month. People with no prospect of owning a house or inheriting a house, people for whom a few more pence on income tax would make their lives even harder. Sure they would happily spend 40 years of working life struggling harder so the haves could pass on the house to Tristan and Jemimaleslie48 said:Absolutely the reality of 'Can't pay ( dad's care bills) we'll take the property away' is frightening especially for those who had their children later in life or for those needing care earlier in their 70s. This potentially affects all house owners and affects many families full on.
Its also a lottery based on whether we ( baby boomers) or for younger readers parents get dementia compared to cancer, strokes, heart disease, disabilities which currently may demand no house sale. It goes to the heart of what type of society we are- most UK voters would prefer the Lib Dem approach pay a few more pennies on income tax for European style health and social care - pool the risk or at least get a balance - not indifferent right wing American public policy misery.
Oh and £9bn a year for largely middle class students who are going to earn significantly more in the future as well. Of course those in the gig economy should be paying taxes to fund that as well. Labour seem to really have it in for what was their core support.0
